Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to something to talk about. I'm Sarah
Speaker 1: La Marquin. I almost forgot my name for a minute,
Speaker 1: just then welcome to this episode. It has been five
Speaker 1: years since Kate Lanebrook and her husband and four children
Speaker 1: packed up to move to Italy, a decision that to
Speaker 1: this day has people stopping her in the street to
Speaker 1: talk about. Now firmly entrenched back into the reality of
Speaker 1: life back in Australia, we decided it was time to
Speaker 1: sit down with the always entertaining and always unpredictable Kate
Speaker 1: to shamelessly pick her brains for an update on the
Speaker 1: whole work life family.
Speaker 2: Ratio in mid twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1: Apart from her thoughts on shadow labor and the often
Speaker 1: thankless work performed by many across the country day in
Speaker 1: and day out, we also talk about the quote unquote
Speaker 1: glamour gap that exists between male and female television presenters
Speaker 1: when it comes to the very large difference in time
Speaker 1: spent in hair and makeup. So given Kate describes herself
Speaker 1: as a lazy dresser, as she says even her boots
Speaker 1: have to have zips if she can't be bothered doing
Speaker 1: up laces. Would the glamor gap be a deal breaker
Speaker 1: if she were to be offered the TV job of
Speaker 1: her dreams. I also ask her about her apparent witching powers,
Speaker 1: and she opens up about experiencing anxiety for the first
Speaker 1: time in her life last year and how her husband's
Speaker 1: response unexpectedly inspired her latest project. Kate Langbrook, Welcome back
Speaker 1: to Something to talk About.
Speaker 3: Kay, Sarah Serah, whatever will be will be? Quit chatting
Speaker 3: just you and me? Okay, Sarah Sarah? Does everyone always
Speaker 3: sing that song to you?
Speaker 2: No, you're the first person.
Speaker 1: Ah, We've recorded it because you know that's what we do,
Speaker 1: because it's a podcast. So do I have your permission
Speaker 1: to use that and new opening credits for Something to
Speaker 1: Talk About?
Speaker 3: You have my permission to use me any way you like?
Speaker 3: Milady friends.
Speaker 1: Oh well, look, Kate, it's already been an absolute pleasure
Speaker 1: having you back on Something to talk about. You know,
Speaker 1: I was going to mention I don't always talk about
Speaker 1: things that go off air. Don't panic here, don't worry.
Speaker 1: It's nothing controversial. I think we did all of that
Speaker 1: on air, didn't we And that's tame when we went.
Speaker 3: Off air, and you know I'm not a panicer.
Speaker 1: No, No, that that is right. I do not think
Speaker 1: that I could make you panic, but I certainly don't
Speaker 1: even want to. But at the end of our chat
Speaker 1: last year, Kate, we had a conversation about catching up.
Speaker 1: And I know that sounds so flippant, but I'm not
Speaker 1: somebody that, within reason says that too flippantly. Oh, let's
Speaker 1: really catch up, let's have a COMPLI let's do lunch.
Speaker 1: I really mean it, and I honestly feel you all this. Obviously,
Speaker 1: I think everyone knows what Kate says is pretty straight shooter.
Speaker 1: But of course, spoiler alert, we never did did we no?
Speaker 3: No? Because we were like Morning side of the Mountain
Speaker 3: and Twilight side of the hill, Like, we just live
Speaker 3: in different universes and it's hard to get them together.
Speaker 3: So I actually look forward to this because it's you know,
Speaker 3: it's fun. Well that we get to thank you.
Speaker 1: And that's exactly what I was going to say, and
Speaker 1: so our dear listeners, basically what I'm saying to you
Speaker 1: is it's never a hardship for you to sit down
Speaker 1: and have virtual coffee and banana bread with Kate Langbrook,
Speaker 1: and for me selfishly, because she and I never got
Speaker 1: together to have real coffee and real banana bread. This
Speaker 1: is our excuse to catch up again.
Speaker 3: Kate.
Speaker 1: You have recently launched your own podcast, The buck Up
Speaker 1: with Late Balbo, which is a weekly antidote that promises
Speaker 1: to provide a joyous reprieve from depressing news cycles, buzzwords
Speaker 1: to do lists with a whole lot of laughter and levity. Kate,
Speaker 1: I definitely need laughter and levity in my life. I
Speaker 1: think a lot of us do right now. So I
Speaker 1: am proposing that today we do a bit of a podcast,
Speaker 1: smash up a little bit of something to talk about,
Speaker 1: and then I thought we could maybe bring a little
Speaker 1: bit of the buck up. So what do you think
Speaker 1: two podcasts for the price perfect.
Speaker 3: Perfect fantastics because otherwise the times are heavy. They are,
Speaker 3: there's no doubt, and there's no doubt that it's important
Speaker 3: that you take on that stuff. But the way also,
Speaker 3: because we're so connected and the news is just coming
Speaker 3: at you constantly, there's only so much the human spirit
Speaker 3: can bear. And there's these other aspects to the human
Speaker 3: spirit which actually help you endure everything and make bad
Speaker 3: times better, and that is humor and joy and as
Speaker 3: you said, levity and just an exchange of stories from
Speaker 3: your life you know how these hopefully everyone has a
Speaker 3: friend that when they see that friend they feel better after.
Speaker 3: You know, some people are drainers, some people drainers, and
Speaker 3: some people are taps. So Nathan Valvo and I are
Speaker 3: the tap. We're just going to You can turn the
Speaker 3: tap on it anytime there's a little half hour. We
Speaker 3: guarantee you'll feel better at the end of it, just
Speaker 3: for us sharing our lives, our listeners lives and having
Speaker 3: a laugh about things, because laughter is the greatest gift.
Speaker 2: It absolutely is.
Speaker 1: It is as I said, really well, actually I stole
Speaker 1: it from the press release, so antidote is not my word.
Speaker 1: It's whoever did the very clever press release for the
Speaker 1: buck Up. But it really is the antidote to what
Speaker 1: we're living through.
Speaker 3: Glad Yeah, the antidote to the times. And in fact,
Speaker 3: Sarah Harris, who does the project and who I'm lucky
Speaker 3: enough to see on Tuesday nights when I do the show,
Speaker 3: she sent me a message the other day when the
Speaker 3: other week when at law and she said, oh my goodness,
Speaker 3: I actually do feel better than I did, And she said,
Speaker 3: this is the Prozac of podcasts. If I was really clever,
Speaker 3: I would have put that.
Speaker 1: In antidote prozac all the same thing, look Sarah Harris,
Speaker 1: she could also be writing press releases on the side.
Speaker 1: And I think also, Kate, as you say, sometimes we
Speaker 1: need that levity and it has quite a profound, I
Speaker 1: think effect on the human spirit. And sometimes humor and
Speaker 1: the lightness and the having a bit of fun and
Speaker 1: frivolity is something that sometimes people think, oh, I'm not
Speaker 1: going to be taken seriously, or people are going to
Speaker 1: say these are very serious times, we don't have time
Speaker 1: for something called the buck up. But actually it's it's critical,
Speaker 1: as you say, and it's so great when people that
Speaker 1: have that profile like I do not necessarily need to
Speaker 1: be quote unquote sin because I think.
Speaker 3: Any more than you already are and through your work,
Speaker 3: and you know, we're all exposed to the world, and
Speaker 3: because of the nature of the world we live in,
Speaker 3: we're even exposed to parts of the world and happenings
Speaker 3: in the world that we normally would not be And
Speaker 3: sometimes when I look at the news in the morning,
Speaker 3: I'm just like, oh, a terrible like terrible, and you
Speaker 3: feel a weight inside you that really, if you were
Speaker 3: to live I guess in a way that in a
Speaker 3: more old fashioned way, I guess you would know your neighbors.
Speaker 3: You would know you know the people at school, or
Speaker 3: the other people walking their dogs, or the people at
Speaker 3: the shops. You wouldn't necessarily have that weight on you. You
Speaker 3: would have a proper community. So I think community has
Speaker 3: been kind of become a bit of a weezer word
Speaker 3: in many ways, of like, any time people want to
Speaker 3: just lump people together, they call it commuit unity. But
Speaker 3: real community is linked by knowing each other. And when
Speaker 3: you're taking on all this stuff from people that you
Speaker 3: don't know, and it fills you with fear of your children,
Speaker 3: for the world, for people that you love, it's not
Speaker 3: helpful to anybody because all it does is atrophy you,
Speaker 3: I think, and make you incapable of It makes you
Speaker 3: scared of your fellow humans. And it's just it's just
Speaker 3: not helpful.
Speaker 1: And it's connection too, isn't it. Because as you say,
Speaker 1: the word community has been a little bit exploited, probably
Speaker 1: by I think certain sort of corporate jargon over the
Speaker 1: last few years.
Speaker 2: But at its heart, it is about.
Speaker 1: That human connection and that's such a critical part of
Speaker 1: navigating all of these parts of life. None of us
Speaker 1: can do it without the village as we say.
Speaker 3: No, that's right. And you know, if you've because I've
Speaker 3: been lucky enough to spend most of my professional life
Speaker 3: in well across many camps really but very soundly rooted
Speaker 3: in comedy and with comedians. That's always been during the
Speaker 3: comedy festivals, you know, Melbourne recently, Sydney's got Brisbane's got one.
Speaker 3: When you sit in a room of people laughing, the
Speaker 3: energy is so great, it's so powerful, but it's always underestimated.
Speaker 3: It's like it's a long standing understood truth that a comedy,
Speaker 3: a comedy film will never win an Academy Award. You've
Speaker 3: got to delve into the depths and you know, get
Speaker 3: a beautiful actress to make yourself look ugly and then
Speaker 3: everyone's like, oh yay. But comedy is, like you said,
Speaker 3: a little bit, it's not valued. It's seen as a
Speaker 3: flippancy and sometimes it can be, but it also is
Speaker 3: one of the basic tenets of my survival. And as
Speaker 3: Megan Marker would see, my thrive. It's not enough to survive,
Speaker 3: it gotta thrive, and it is. It's just happiness is
Speaker 3: such a leavening of the breed of your soul that
Speaker 3: it makes everything else happy.
Speaker 2: Wow, that was a beautiful sentence. Kate.
Speaker 1: You mentioned Sarah Harris therean that you appear alongside her
Speaker 1: on the project on Tuesdays, and you also appear instellar today.
Speaker 1: You've been photographed for Images so beautiful.
Speaker 3: That was such a beautiful shoes.
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about that side of your
Speaker 1: role in the media. Because of the project, there's big
Speaker 1: hair and makeup, and then there's wardrobe, and then you
Speaker 1: come on set for Stella if there's a lot of
Speaker 1: obviously focus on the styling, what you wear, hair and makeup. Again,
Speaker 1: do you like that side of what your role sometimes
Speaker 1: demands of you?
Speaker 3: Kate, mm, Well, the wardrobe girls will tell you, and
Speaker 3: my girlfriend Alice would tell you that I am a
Speaker 3: lazy dresser. Like even my boots I've gone on have
Speaker 3: to have zips. I can't be bothering laces. Like sometimes
Speaker 3: my Girlfriendnaly says to me, are you a toddler? That
Speaker 3: you that you I would almost have velcrow, but it
Speaker 3: is very lucky. It's like it's a beautiful thing. And
Speaker 3: particularly during lockdown, you really learned that that the things
Speaker 3: that you once resented or you know you saw as
Speaker 3: an obstacle were actually things you were lucky to have.
Speaker 3: So to go in once a week and have someone
Speaker 3: actually do your makeup or do your hair was incredible,
Speaker 3: And so I try to be less lazy. But when
Speaker 3: I go into the project and the style of Rachel
Speaker 3: sort of oversees this team of other stylists in there,
Speaker 3: and they really just these so great and they're doing news,
Speaker 3: they're doing whatever. And I've got some clothes hanging on
Speaker 3: the rack. Normally this is what I do. I try
Speaker 3: on the first one, I put it on over whatever
Speaker 3: T shirt I'm wearing at the time, and I go,
Speaker 3: that'll do. They're always like, can you try on the others?
Speaker 3: Just so we know. I'm like, oh, man, like really pitiful,
Speaker 3: and this is my uniform that I wear all the time.
Speaker 3: I've got overalls on. Do you call them overalls? That yes,
Speaker 3: bib and brace.
Speaker 1: Overalls like yeah, I think other people, yeah, say braces,
Speaker 1: but absolutely overalls over a T shirt.
Speaker 3: Over a T shirt. I have very few shirts in
Speaker 3: my Wardrobeordan's taking them.
Speaker 1: Other buttons, yeah, button I don't love, but dresser.
Speaker 3: Yes, you've got it. You've got it. So just things
Speaker 3: I can pull on and pull off things I can
Speaker 3: zip and weep off. So I do enjoy like everyone
Speaker 3: like sometimes you put on a garment, So transformative, isn't it.
Speaker 3: It really elevates you. You're like, it's great for the spirit.
Speaker 3: Like laughter. Beauty is also, I think, a high principle,
Speaker 3: not a low principle. So not like in a not
Speaker 3: in a self obsessed sort of I'm gonna say, kardash
Speaker 3: in way just a shorthand for what we know what
Speaker 3: that means, but as our noble principle. Entire you know,
Speaker 3: entire civilizations have been founded on the love of beauty,
Speaker 3: you know, the Romans and the Italians to this day,
Speaker 3: et cetera. So it does. It elevates you and it
Speaker 3: lifts you up. But I am loath to use that
Speaker 3: as much as I possibly should. Also because I'm busy.
Speaker 3: I've got four kids, I've got a husband, I work,
Speaker 3: and I can't be asked.
Speaker 1: It's I'm reluctant. It would be a bit cliche of
Speaker 1: me to say, it's so refreshing to hear a woman
Speaker 1: in the spotlight that's going on national television or going
Speaker 1: in a major national magazine saying not going to worry
Speaker 1: too much about that. So I'll be cliche and say
Speaker 1: it is refreshing to hear somebody say that. But I
Speaker 1: think about this a little bit in terms of women,
Speaker 1: because I would say, for me, kay, I do agree
Speaker 1: with you about aesthetic like it's something that actually feel
Speaker 1: quite strongly with is a form of I think self
Speaker 1: expression and identity, and it's some it can be misunderstood
Speaker 1: in our society because I think everyone assumes if a
Speaker 1: woman's taking those things seriously whatever it is, that oh,
Speaker 1: she's pandering to the male gaze, or there's some sort
Speaker 1: of metric to use, as he said, the Kardashian shorthand
Speaker 1: for it, and.
Speaker 3: Who have taken it, because they have taken it to
Speaker 3: this extraordinary length.
Speaker 1: Exactly, and there is obviously a level of exploitation and
Speaker 1: more problematic things going on there. But that doesn't mean
Speaker 1: that leaning into any of that glamour fashion style, whatever
Speaker 1: it is, it doesn't have a more profound connection to
Speaker 1: identity and self expression. But I always also love exploring
Speaker 1: the idea that some people are like, that's just not
Speaker 1: really something that I can be bothered doing.
Speaker 2: The buttons up or what.
Speaker 1: Else would constitute address that you might think, well, that
Speaker 1: would be amazing, but just could not be bothered. I'm
Speaker 1: assuming zippers are good, are they?
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, really good. I don't want to
Speaker 3: sound like I'm amish. What is it the Armies are
Speaker 3: they anti zipper? It must be zippers, is it? But
Speaker 3: they have buttons?
Speaker 1: Didn't know that they were anti zipper?
Speaker 3: Nice And because I think it's one of those fastenings
Speaker 3: is new technology, so it must be the zipper.
Speaker 1: Because right, yes, yes, that's a I can't imagine then,
Speaker 1: like you talked about laces before, and so like a
Speaker 1: corset or something like that. Yes, million different buttons just yes,
Speaker 1: never never.
Speaker 3: You know, when you watch you know something set in
Speaker 3: you oldie times and they look so beautiful and they're
Speaker 3: sort of wasp wasted, or you know that show that
Speaker 3: We're Bridgitton. When I was watching Bridgington, right, I was
Speaker 3: like those they look so beautiful and it really is
Speaker 3: like that that it's the epitome of feminine, right, sometimes
Speaker 3: even to the point of being crippling in many ways,
Speaker 3: but it was the epitome of femininity. But I'm just like,
Speaker 3: what would I have done in the olden days? What
Speaker 3: would I have done? Oh? There is no way unless
Speaker 3: I had a lady in waiting, you know, and you
Speaker 3: did the traditional lean over the table.
Speaker 1: Was Scarlet O'Hara and gone with them?
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly exactly, But more likely I would have been
Speaker 3: not upstairs but downstairs and in some steamy kitchen, you know,
Speaker 3: with all everything hanging out as I juggled pots and pans,
Speaker 3: you know, for them upstairs. But even so, if I
Speaker 3: was downstairs, I would be like the downstairs in the Titanic,
Speaker 3: you know, they would.
Speaker 1: Dancing jig and the ones.
Speaker 3: Of course, yes, the car, the car.
Speaker 1: You would be there with Leo, doesn't matter what part,
Speaker 1: first class, wherever it's going to be, Kate, Leo steamy
Speaker 1: hand on the car.
Speaker 3: Well, I think I'm dancing a jig wherever I am.
Speaker 3: I like to think I'm dancing a jig. Yeah, even
Speaker 3: if it's just internally. I think.
Speaker 1: You know, Kate, if you did decide to go back
Speaker 1: into acting, we talked about your acting career last time,
Speaker 1: maybe like a period drama, you know, Bridgeton, and it
Speaker 1: could be what does somebody with Kate Langbrook's fuss free
Speaker 1: approach to dressing in this time?
Speaker 2: I mean, really.
Speaker 3: Imagine, imagine that when I come the diamond of the
Speaker 3: season and then I come in all at jiggle, they
Speaker 3: would not like it.
Speaker 1: What about the makeup? Hair and makeup? We talk about
Speaker 1: the pay gap? I have talked about the pay gap,
Speaker 1: Yes we have. I'm sure of course you have heard
Speaker 1: and observed firsthand multiple times the hair and makeup gap.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what it's called. Maybe there's a fancy
Speaker 1: word for it, the glamor everybody ever talks about that.
Speaker 1: So let's say you're at the Project on Tuesday night
Speaker 1: and yes, you know, you and Sarah. All women on
Speaker 1: commercial TV, not just in Australia, around the world can
Speaker 1: be anywhere between you know, forty five minute minimum, often
Speaker 1: sixty ninety minutes, and people are listening going what do
Speaker 1: they do in that time? Believe me, they do, They
Speaker 1: do things. And then you would have Will Lead or
Speaker 1: any of your male.
Speaker 3: Sam Taunton sad they whipping five minutes before the HI.
Speaker 2: How does that make you true?
Speaker 3: Well, you know this is interesting because it's like anyone
Speaker 3: listening to this, who any woman who's got ready for
Speaker 3: an event that she's going to with her partner, husband
Speaker 3: or whatever, would have noted this. The leader, the prep,
Speaker 3: the whatever, the shopping, the shoes, the fittings, the la la,
Speaker 3: and then the husband if he even has a tux
Speaker 3: or puts it on, brushes his hair, squirt of whatever
Speaker 3: to hide the funk of him, and he's out the door.
Speaker 3: But this is what I kind of think if I
Speaker 3: was offered the and it is television, right, so it's vision,
Speaker 3: so that's a very important part. Like today I've come in,
Speaker 3: I'm not wearing makeup. Probably I should be. For people
Speaker 3: who for her high death watching this in a high definition,
Speaker 3: which is, by the way, horrendous. If I was off
Speaker 3: to go on the show, on that show or any
Speaker 3: other and offered the opportunity to save sixty to ninety
Speaker 3: minutes a day, I would not take it. Really, I
Speaker 3: wouldn't take it too much time, but I would put
Speaker 3: I would put this this shiny halloween lantern face on
Speaker 3: television without any of the niceties that go with television.
Speaker 3: I actually wouldn't do it, to be honest, even though
Speaker 3: we dream of it. When we see the guys, we're
Speaker 3: always like, it's how easy for you? Which it is.
Speaker 1: And then let's just say that you were thinking about
Speaker 1: going back or moving into TV full time you were
Speaker 1: offered to aim her morning TV show or whatever TV
Speaker 1: may look like in five years, could be a whole
Speaker 1: other time slot that I'm not even thinking and it
Speaker 1: all sounds great, and then they say, and it would be,
Speaker 1: you know, ninety minutes every day day in hair and
Speaker 1: makeup Monday to Friday and then wardrobe. Would that then
Speaker 1: be a deal breaker for you, Kate?
Speaker 3: I do think I think of that often when I see,
Speaker 3: you know, the sisters who do who do Morning Teva,
Speaker 3: you know, Silvia or nat Bar Gean. Nat Bar is
Speaker 3: doing some heavy hitting at the moment, by the way,
Speaker 3: isn't she She's just just like bam bam coming out
Speaker 3: swinging amazing. Anyway, I think they've got up. It's like
Speaker 3: that Ginger Rogers Fred Astare thing with their male co
Speaker 3: hosts everything. They're doing everything he did, but backwards in
Speaker 3: high heels and in hair and makeup nineteen minutes before.
Speaker 3: So they must be getting in at like three thirty
Speaker 3: in the morning they are. I don't know it comes
Speaker 3: at You're right, it would be a consideration, But I
Speaker 3: also don't think, you know, if you're wanting people to
Speaker 3: wake up with you, I think it's nice that you
Speaker 3: have made that effort, don't you.
Speaker 1: I do. It's what I wanted to ask you about it,
Speaker 1: because I don't think there's any easy answers to this.
Speaker 1: As in it's as you said, it's that example, getting
Speaker 1: ready for an event at home. If you're in a
Speaker 1: heterosexual relationship and the as the guy comes in and
Speaker 1: gets ready in two minutes. It's not fair and it's crazy.
Speaker 1: But then are we outraged about it? And that is
Speaker 1: some people may be outraged.
Speaker 3: I'm not.
Speaker 1: I really wanted to know. Yeah, what what your thoughts?
Speaker 3: No, but it's just one of those things that you clock.
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 3: It's like at Christmas time, Christmas would not happen without
Speaker 3: the women generally.
Speaker 2: That's right. Well, I do get a bit outraged about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's annoying. It's annoying. It's you know, no one
Speaker 3: in an office would get a present if were it
Speaker 3: not for the women. This is true, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean. It's like it's just the stuff that we do.
Speaker 3: But I think in many ways like that your strength,
Speaker 3: there is also your weakness. So women make the world beautiful,
Speaker 3: and we are the ornaments of the world. There is
Speaker 3: no doubt We're not the birds. We're not the drab,
Speaker 3: brown ones. We're the colorful, beautiful ones. Not always don't
Speaker 3: have to be, but that is something that is open
Speaker 3: to us, and I love that we have that capacity
Speaker 3: I have, but it can also consume you.
Speaker 2: It's true.
Speaker 3: And you know you said for the male gaze earlier,
Speaker 3: ninety percent of it is not for the male gaze.
Speaker 2: That's right, and it's.
Speaker 3: It's either for our gaze or for the gays of
Speaker 3: each other.
Speaker 1: And when we come back, I ask Kate about how
Speaker 1: she's balancing the work family life ratio in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1: Her answer is very unexpected and very funny. Kate, I
Speaker 1: wanted to get your pick your brains on this thing
Speaker 1: that we call work life family ratio because you always
Speaker 1: have such really refreshing, wonderful insights into it. You and
Speaker 1: I obviously have discussed previously, you and your family going
Speaker 1: to Italy for two years in Joey nineteen. I know
Speaker 1: people still stop you on the street and talk about that.
Speaker 1: You've written a book about it.
Speaker 3: But which I love. By the way, my favorite people
Speaker 3: other than the buck up people now, but my favorite
Speaker 3: people in the world are the people who stop me
Speaker 3: to talk about the book because we've just shared so much,
Speaker 3: like we've shared Italy for starters, and we've shared two
Speaker 3: years of my life. And you know what I learned,
Speaker 3: What I learned from it, not that i've you know,
Speaker 3: that beauty conversation is very Italian.
Speaker 2: That's right.
Speaker 1: And I think also, as you know, even from the
Speaker 1: moment that you first announced that you and the family
Speaker 1: were going over, there is huge response on social media
Speaker 1: because it's that thing that people talk about and dream
Speaker 1: about and don't necessarily do. And that's why I wanted to,
Speaker 1: like I say, sort of shamelessly, just pick your brains
Speaker 1: and ask you what is your day to day life
Speaker 1: rhythm looking like.
Speaker 2: In twenty twenty four, we talked.
Speaker 1: About the buck Up. That's a weekly podcast.
Speaker 3: Good Nurse, Yes, that's weekly. Yeah, so we do that.
Speaker 3: Oh look my week and now because I'm freelancing. So
Speaker 3: for years I did until I went to Italy. Really
Speaker 3: I did a long you know, I did twelve years
Speaker 3: of breakfast radio with Hughes and then I had a
Speaker 3: year off and then we did National Drive. So that
Speaker 3: even though particularly doing breakfast radio tired nurses your constant companion,
Speaker 3: but you still have this structure to your day, and
Speaker 3: the same doing drive, you're not as tired, but you
Speaker 3: have a structure to your day. And now I kind
Speaker 3: of have structure because I'm freelancing, but my structure is
Speaker 3: about the family mate. It's brutal. Some days I have done,
Speaker 3: I have done a day's work by eight thirty am.
Speaker 3: I have done washing, I have done I've maybe cooked
Speaker 3: a meal. I've been to the shops when they open
Speaker 3: at seven o'clock. I've made lunches of whatever. All of
Speaker 3: those things I don't have to do, and yet I
Speaker 3: have to do them. I have to do them for
Speaker 3: the family, but also I have to do them for
Speaker 3: myself because it was my idea. It was my idea,
Speaker 3: And sometimes I'm like, I think about that now, and
Speaker 3: we talk about it on one of the episodes of
Speaker 3: The buck Up as well. This concept of shadow labor,
Speaker 3: which drives me fucking crazy, which is the work that
Speaker 3: they make you do. They make you do now that
Speaker 3: used to be done by other people. Like you go
Speaker 3: to a car park and it's a there's no person
Speaker 3: there anymore, and you have to put your license numbering
Speaker 3: in and you have to data data or you try
Speaker 3: to book on a plane and you're filling out the
Speaker 3: things and you go to the through supermarket. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 3: shadow labor. So that was once someone's job and it's
Speaker 3: all become our job. Like even if I want to
Speaker 3: watch something on television, it's like scan this QR code
Speaker 3: and into your thing and your blah blah and your
Speaker 3: email and your It drives me crazy. The labor that
Speaker 3: I do at home is not shadow labor. It is
Speaker 3: my labor. It is life's labor. And there is something
Speaker 3: you know, I don't want to. I don't want to,
Speaker 3: you know, guild the lily too much. It's not even
Speaker 3: a lily. I don't want to gild the weed, but
Speaker 3: there is. I try to find that there's something noble
Speaker 3: in it that I'm doing it. Sometimes I even have
Speaker 3: to project myself in the future and imagine that I'm dead,
Speaker 3: wishfully imagine that I'm dead and imagine how my family
Speaker 3: will reflect on what I did, and that helps. I'm
Speaker 3: the only person that does that. No, do you ever
Speaker 3: imagine that you're ded and what it would sud.
Speaker 1: I don't know that I do it specifically for those
Speaker 1: shadow labor tasks. So if you're talking about some of
Speaker 1: those things like food preparation and those things. I don't
Speaker 1: do it then, but I absolutely do do it because
Speaker 1: I think it's that thing we're all taught, aren't we
Speaker 1: about what our priorities would be on our deathbed, but
Speaker 1: then also the next stage after that, in terms of yes,
Speaker 1: how you will be remembered and even when your children
Speaker 1: are looking back ten, twenty, thirty, fifty seventy years, will
Speaker 1: it have been worth doing this? So I absolutely do.
Speaker 1: I don't think I do it though for things in
Speaker 1: the kitchen, I think I'm just a bit more maybe
Speaker 1: roll my eyes overtly, maybe I'll start thinking about at that.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm not advocating it as a thing. It's just
Speaker 3: sometimes probably I wish I was dead. It's probably as
Speaker 3: basic as that. It's just a fleeting moment when you're
Speaker 3: just like looking at all the mounds and the hordes.
Speaker 3: But it's also a thing that we're always it seems
Speaker 3: to be a conceit of the times that we're always
Speaker 3: going we must have a conversation about whatever, la la la,
Speaker 3: And some of those conversations are important, but I believe
Speaker 3: actions are more important than conversations. One is sometimes lead
Speaker 3: from the other, but so what I am doing in
Speaker 3: my family and my husband, Peter Alan Lewis is also doing,
Speaker 3: is we are showing. So people say all the time,
Speaker 3: I don't want my daughter to grow up with an
Speaker 3: eating disorder, so I tell her all the time she's
Speaker 3: of all how she is or whatever, And yet they
Speaker 3: watched their mother go kneel by mouth until it's wine
Speaker 3: time or whatever. You know what I mean, absolutely so,
Speaker 3: And I'm always like, it doesn't matter what you say.
Speaker 3: What matters in every aspect of life is what you do,
Speaker 3: and so I try to even though it is it
Speaker 3: is well, I guess it's like a lot of things.
Speaker 3: It's a once an honor and a burden, but it's one.
Speaker 3: Particularly since we came back, well since we went to
Speaker 3: Italy and I had my wish come true to spend
Speaker 3: more time with the family. I'm also like, why did
Speaker 3: I wish that? Because I'm like normal and I'm my
Speaker 3: inclination is like most people that I would like to
Speaker 3: be selfish, and I would like to be lazy, and
Speaker 3: I would like to you know, but you part of
Speaker 3: the stretch of what you do in life, no matter
Speaker 3: what it is, if it's having a family or not
Speaker 3: but if you love and care for another creature, the
Speaker 3: love and the stretch and the growth comes from going
Speaker 3: beyond what you would like to do, going outside yourself,
Speaker 3: And it's kind of powerful. It's a powerful concept, but
Speaker 3: also it can leave you just exhausted. So I oscillate
Speaker 3: between those two. I'm just like and that is. I
Speaker 3: guess that is just the dance of life, isn't it?
Speaker 1: It is? And I suppose the cost or the tax
Speaker 1: I suppose, isn't it of unconditional love and caring for
Speaker 1: people is what brings value to this world.
Speaker 2: But God, it's hard work.
Speaker 3: It's hard work. And we've got all the appliances, that's
Speaker 3: still hard work.
Speaker 1: Imagine that. Imagine the shadow labor when you were trying to,
Speaker 1: you know, not put on that corset. Well, that's right,
Speaker 1: you know in the bridges.
Speaker 3: Yah, that's right. Well, the shadow labor is actually for
Speaker 3: the for the poor Chicky was trying to lace me up.
Speaker 3: She was doing the shadow. That was a lot she
Speaker 3: was sucked into.
Speaker 1: Actually, last year, when you and I spoke Kate talking
Speaker 1: about family, we spoke about how your son Lewis is
Speaker 1: dating Gypsy Lee. Kate Sobrano and.
Speaker 3: Gypsy was kind of fresh, then, wasn't it. It was?
Speaker 1: It was you said, she's just a beauty, she's divine,
Speaker 1: and they're both really beautiful, two beautiful nepo babies who
Speaker 1: neither of whom are casual. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: So beautiful?
Speaker 1: And then Gypsy has since appeared in Stella early this
Speaker 1: year we released her Beautiful. We asked Gypsy about obviously
Speaker 1: you being part of the extended Stella family. There you go,
Speaker 1: that's just more to add to your shadow labor taking
Speaker 1: care of the Stella family as well. And Gypsy said
Speaker 1: that you and her mum, Kate used their witching powers
Speaker 1: to set us up in Away. Kate and Lewis have
Speaker 1: the same bond that Mum and I have. I love
Speaker 1: witching powers. That's really beautiful too, isn't it.
Speaker 3: It was interesting because Lewis says to me, Mum, do
Speaker 3: you know someone called Gypsy? And I went, oh, well,
Speaker 3: I said, no, not not exactly, but I know her mom.
Speaker 3: And he goes, oh, I've got some really nice messages
Speaker 3: from her. And I said to him, Lewis the old
Speaker 3: ladies in the Village of Matt making you, And I said,
Speaker 3: I'm not, I'm not actually playing an active part in it,
Speaker 3: but I know that it's going on, like I'm not
Speaker 3: being an obstacle. And then Trudy, my girlfriend, went to
Speaker 3: an op shop and found these really beautiful I love
Speaker 3: op shoppy stuff and she's a brilliant vintage and op shopper,
Speaker 3: and she found these beautiful Irish Lynen Place matts right,
Speaker 3: and she gave them to Kate to give to Gypsy
Speaker 3: to drop off at our house. So then they got
Speaker 3: into this really strange sort of they hadn't met, but
Speaker 3: they were messaging each other about this thing. And then
Speaker 3: Peter and I last year went to back to Italy
Speaker 3: for the first time and went to Paris for Peter's
Speaker 3: first time. And when we left, so we were gone
Speaker 3: for three weeks. When we left, Lewis was going on
Speaker 3: his first walk with Gypsy. And three weeks later he
Speaker 3: facetimed me. We were in Paris at that point and
Speaker 3: he was going to the movies with Gypsy the next day,
Speaker 3: and I knew they'd seen each other in between, and
Speaker 3: I said to Lewis, have you got a girlfriend, Lewis?
Speaker 3: And he said, I think I do, Mum and that.
Speaker 3: So now they've had like they've passed the year anniversary.
Speaker 3: It was beautiful, amazing, witching powers.
Speaker 1: Indeed, beautiful phrase, beautiful phrase, witching powers.
Speaker 2: Indeed, I love it.
Speaker 1: But then it's a little bit of you know, your
Speaker 1: social media there as well, you know, see those do
Speaker 1: those videos? You're never not it's trying to lead.
Speaker 3: But also she was, Kate was spot on in her instincts.
Speaker 3: I have to say, like spot on. Nothing could have
Speaker 3: been easier. And it's really only in retrospect that I go, oh,
Speaker 3: my goodness, when your kid brings someone home, it could
Speaker 3: go disastrously wrong suddenly, like if you didn't like them
Speaker 3: or whatever. It is a myriad exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And look, I mean I'm sure every parent has
Speaker 1: to contemplate that and obviously deal with it sometimes. And
Speaker 1: I've got no doubt personally that you would absolutely handle
Speaker 1: that really graciously.
Speaker 3: Oh do you think so that I would, Sarah? Because
Speaker 3: you know, you know how it is when you're in
Speaker 3: love with someone and when you're first in love and
Speaker 3: when you're young, Yes, like which of us has not
Speaker 3: made a mistake in our youth?
Speaker 1: I did?
Speaker 3: And if my pearance, I mean I didn't see my
Speaker 3: parents then because they I'd left the Jehovah's witnesses, so
Speaker 3: luckily I was free to make my own mistakes. Or
Speaker 3: was I lucky there was no one there to say
Speaker 3: to me. I don't know. I don't know about this, honey,
Speaker 3: I don't know. But you have to be really careful
Speaker 3: how you deal with it, because you're dealing with you're
Speaker 3: trying to talk to someone about you're trying to express
Speaker 3: I imagine reservations where they see none that's true.
Speaker 1: And it's complicated, and I mean people can have that
Speaker 1: even with good friends, can't they. We've all seen somebody
Speaker 1: that we care deeply about, and yes, know that it's
Speaker 1: really not going to be good. But it's very complicated
Speaker 1: to have those conversations, and you have to high up
Speaker 1: I love this person, is it in their best interest
Speaker 1: to speak? Or am I blowing this relationship up?
Speaker 3: So it is, and then they break up, and then
Speaker 3: they get back together, and in the meantime, she's told
Speaker 3: him or whoever all the things that you've said, and
Speaker 3: then the relationship is ren to thunder forever. Like it's
Speaker 3: very tricky to rain. It is, and luckily I have
Speaker 3: not had to navigate it, but I've still got three
Speaker 3: other children coming through. Let me touch wood that the
Speaker 3: course of love runs smooth, and we'll be.
Speaker 1: Back in a moment to hear Kate open up about
Speaker 1: how she first experienced anxiety last year. We've talked a
Speaker 1: little bit about radio, obviously worked with Hughsey, and now
Speaker 1: you have the as I said, the weekly podcast, The
Speaker 1: buck Up.
Speaker 3: Yes, but but I don't even know if that's the
Speaker 3: opening song, but I think it is.
Speaker 1: I should really probably return the favor and sing an
Speaker 1: opening song to you, since oh in the top of
Speaker 1: our conversation. But that's okay, I'll come up with I'll
Speaker 1: come up with something a bit later. You clearly are
Speaker 1: very very very good podcast host and extremely capable feeling,
Speaker 1: and so I'm just going to hand over at the
Speaker 1: end of this episode of something to.
Speaker 2: Talk about to you as a co host of The
Speaker 2: buck Up.
Speaker 3: Well, Sarah. So we start by, I mean, we say hello,
Speaker 3: I'm kateline Brook.
Speaker 1: You are I am Sarah Lamarquin.
Speaker 3: Yes, correct, well done. That's the first out of the way.
Speaker 3: But so that ethos of the podcast is and it's
Speaker 3: kind of difficult to articulate, but let me give you
Speaker 3: an example, so that things in life really get you down.
Speaker 3: There's no doubt anyone who lives a life. As my
Speaker 3: mother said, the longer you live, more bad things are
Speaker 3: going to happen to you, which also makes me laugh.
Speaker 3: But there's something about sharing bad things that have happened.
Speaker 3: And I think I believe this because I spent a
Speaker 3: long part of my life in a religion where I
Speaker 3: had to keep a big part of my self secret,
Speaker 3: like the most essential part of myself, because it would
Speaker 3: be so disapproved of and everything about me was wrong
Speaker 3: for that religion. It turned out the religion was wrong
Speaker 3: for me, but whatever. So now I'm like, I don't
Speaker 3: really have many, if any secrets. So the buckup is
Speaker 3: when stuff happens to you that's kind of terrible. If
Speaker 3: you just reset yourself a bit, often you'll find that
Speaker 3: it's got an upside to it. So when we were
Speaker 3: talking about first doing the podcast, I was telling nath
Speaker 3: what had happened when I went to America earlier this
Speaker 3: year and I did these two massive interviews with Zendaia
Speaker 3: and Florence Pew and Austin Butler and Timothy Chalomay, and
Speaker 3: I talk about that in the first episode of the podcast.
Speaker 3: But what I didn't talk about was when I came
Speaker 3: back from America, this really weird thing happened and I
Speaker 3: had anxiety for the first time in my life. I've
Speaker 3: never had it before. I'm modern, so I know heaps
Speaker 3: of people who have got it, and kids have got it,
Speaker 3: and grown ups have got it, and even dogs have
Speaker 3: got it. Right, it's the malaise of our modern world.
Speaker 3: And I had it for the first time, and it
Speaker 3: took me a little while to realize what it was.
Speaker 3: I was waking up in the morning with this just
Speaker 3: this waking up ding, and then terrible things were popping
Speaker 3: into my mind, real or imagined. And then I went, oh,
Speaker 3: I've got anxiety. Right, this is terrible. But so I
Speaker 3: call the number of a guy who I'd been recommended by, strangely,
Speaker 3: a woman that I go and have colonics with, right,
Speaker 3: and she had mentioned this guy to me before, and
Speaker 3: I'd met him in the past and he was really lovely.
Speaker 3: So I just seen him a message. At this stage,
Speaker 3: I was so low that I couldn't even explain to
Speaker 3: him why I was coming to see him. I just
Speaker 3: had to say, I really need to see you. I
Speaker 3: was so low that even the people that I live
Speaker 3: with who are very often blind to you because they
Speaker 3: see you every day and you're like a service animal
Speaker 3: in that life, you know. No, no, yeah, so even
Speaker 3: they noticed and I said, I said to Lewis, I
Speaker 3: can't go into the backyard. Peter was doing armor garden
Speaker 3: in the backyard. I just I'm like, I can't go
Speaker 3: in the backyard. It's giving me anxiety. Peter comes to anxiety, said,
Speaker 3: Louis Seed, you've got anxiety. And I said, yeah, I do.
Speaker 3: And Peter was like, this is a phrase I have
Speaker 3: never uttered ever. Right, I'm not an anxious person. I'm
Speaker 3: not a fearful person. It's just not been a thing anyway.
Speaker 3: I said, yes I have. And he goes, what are
Speaker 3: you anxious about? Which is what people always say to
Speaker 3: people who have got anxiety. I'm like, it's not a thing,
Speaker 3: but has been triggered by this trip overseas and the
Speaker 3: full on stress and the Americans who was wowow and
Speaker 3: all of that. I said, but I've made an appointment
Speaker 3: to see someone and on and in between. He said,
Speaker 3: what do you mean. I said, I've made an appointment
Speaker 3: to see someone on Monday. Now, this is where the
Speaker 3: magic of the buck up comes Sarah. Because he became
Speaker 3: he became obsessed with the idea that I was going
Speaker 3: to talk about him and that he was somehow responsible
Speaker 3: for my anxiety. So he became the greatest person in
Speaker 3: the world. He just became obsessed. It was all like
Speaker 3: at one stage we were getting out of the car
Speaker 3: and he said to me, I hope you're going to
Speaker 3: tell her that I carry your jacket out of the
Speaker 3: car for you. And I said to him, for starters,
Speaker 3: she is a hymn, and also, why do you think
Speaker 3: it's about you? And he goes, what else would you
Speaker 3: talk to him about?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 3: And I'm like, well, that's an interesting observation. So it
Speaker 3: just actually became even before I had started that process,
Speaker 3: what became what started off in such such a I
Speaker 3: don't know, pain and despair, not really pain, but just
Speaker 3: that that awful thing of anxiety actually became something of
Speaker 3: humor and great And so then I was like, I've
Speaker 3: got to go to bed. I need a cup of tea.
Speaker 3: It's like bounding up the stairs. It was just it
Speaker 3: was just brilliant. It was brilliant. Now, who would think
Speaker 3: that that that I would get a buck up from
Speaker 3: when I had anxiety, and yet I did.
Speaker 1: And that it would inspire a whole podcast.
Speaker 3: Well there you go. And so often in life things
Speaker 3: terrible things happen, And I guess this is what comedians do,
Speaker 3: is that they will always put a spin on something
Speaker 3: so that the the it boomerangs its way back to you.
Speaker 3: But it's somehow got a little bit of sparkle on it.
Speaker 1: Peter, and continue, do you still have this sort of yes,
Speaker 1: buck up at home.
Speaker 3: Well, okay, So seeing the counselor that I saw was fantastic.
Speaker 3: He's just enough, he's woo woo enough that it was great.
Speaker 3: So it was some talking and breaking stuff down and
Speaker 3: then some acupuncture on a table and some it was
Speaker 3: so it's great, but yes, I'm like, for a few
Speaker 3: days afterwards, I would say, in a couple of weeks
Speaker 3: after even I would say to Peter, be careful, you
Speaker 3: don't want to trigger my anxiety, right, And he was like,
Speaker 3: snap to it. And he's a beautiful, loving like he's
Speaker 3: my person. But in the cut and thrust of life,
Speaker 3: we've been married a long time, We've got a lot
Speaker 3: of responsibilities. You're not always treated like the orchid that
Speaker 3: you believe you are. In the hot house and sometimes
Speaker 3: you're treated by the weed that's growing on the median strip. Right.
Speaker 3: It was just nice. It ended up actually being an
Speaker 3: unexpected benefit of something. You would never think that there'd
Speaker 3: be a silver lining on that dark cloud, and in
Speaker 3: fact it ended up being. It ended up just being
Speaker 3: part of part of the joy, but also what I did.
Speaker 3: And because I'm a stoic and that is very much
Speaker 3: my ideology that I that's how I lead that there
Speaker 3: might have been an inclination for me to keep this
Speaker 3: vulnerability secret. That suddenly I was all wobbly and untethered
Speaker 3: when it was whereas I normally wake up, you know,
Speaker 3: I just I'm okay, and I wasn't okay, and there
Speaker 3: is a tendency to keep that. You're like, oh, what's
Speaker 3: going on? Or I didn't have that. I was like,
Speaker 3: I have to step into these and if had I
Speaker 3: not done that, none of the other benefits would have come.
Speaker 1: That's great, and it's so good that you gave you
Speaker 1: yourself permission to feel it and acknowledge it.
Speaker 3: And also that aspect of it was funny, not all
Speaker 3: of it, but that aspect was funny and contained like
Speaker 3: some joy.
Speaker 1: It's a bit like some of many of the things
Speaker 1: that we've talked about. Isn't it that there's the beauty
Speaker 1: of it and then the difficulty of it, and then
Speaker 1: all of those things.
Speaker 2: Can be true at once.
Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, thank you so smartly right for sharing that
Speaker 1: story about the genesis.
Speaker 3: Of the buck Up.
Speaker 1: It is a fantastic podcast and it is a very
Speaker 1: welcome antidote or as Sarah Harris would say, prozac if
Speaker 1: podcast was prozac. Kate, thank you again so much, and
Speaker 1: you can listen to Kate lame Brook on the buck
Speaker 1: Up every Tuesday on the free iheartapp.
Speaker 2: Or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: Thank you for your company on this episode. Make sure
Speaker 1: you're following us, leave us a rating or a review,
Speaker 1: because we'll be back with another episode in your feed
Speaker 1: next week.