Speaker 1: Listeners are advised that this podcast series Bromwan contains course
Speaker 1: language and adult themes. This podcast series is brought to
Speaker 1: you by me Headley Thomas and The Australian. We are
Speaker 1: close to the end of John's evidence now. The transcript
Speaker 1: from that videotaped record of interview is just about concluded.
Speaker 1: Since episode fourteen, you have been hearing a reconstruction of
Speaker 1: John's side of the story from August nineteen ninety eight,
Speaker 1: because that was the only time John has been questioned
Speaker 1: on the record by police tasked with investigating Bromlin's disappearance.
Speaker 1: Our diversions into aspects of the evidence which have cried
Speaker 1: out for closer scrutiny, like the medicare check, have a
Speaker 1: little further to go. Soon you'll hear John's characterization of
Speaker 1: Bronlin's mother, Barbara, the grandmother of Crystal and Lauren. This
Speaker 1: isn't an easy listen. I'm grateful to Barbara's daughter, Kim Marshall,
Speaker 1: and to Maddie Walsh for their help in balancing this. Now,
Speaker 1: let's go back to Detective Sergeant Glenn Taylor's interview with
Speaker 1: John Winfield in the ballon of Police station. In the
Speaker 1: previous episode. You heard John tell the detective that John
Speaker 1: believed he would be able to start a new life
Speaker 1: without much trouble at all. Therefore, John reasoned, Bronlin could too.
Speaker 2: I mean, I know her mother when she went to
Speaker 2: England and disappears be twel years. I know for a
Speaker 2: fact that she worked as a prostitute. And she will
Speaker 2: tell you that too. She readily admits it. And that's
Speaker 2: where this other child came from. Was your wife close
Speaker 2: to your children?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 1: I think so? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean as close as any mother would be.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, i'd be lying to say that
Speaker 2: I didn't think she probably was close.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Detective Wayne Tembi asked a question, what's the other
Speaker 1: child's name that she had in England? Oh?
Speaker 2: The one that's Ilegitimate Kim. She used to live with
Speaker 2: their mother in Tasmania. It's all in there. Graham's actually
Speaker 2: spoken to her. Actually, I brought her in here. I
Speaker 2: brought her in here to see Graham.
Speaker 1: One day.
Speaker 2: She's been here, Kim, she's been interviewed here with Graham. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because she came up to stay with me for a
Speaker 2: couple of weeks to help me look after the kids.
Speaker 2: She came up by bus and she stayed a couple
Speaker 2: of weeks and then I brought her in. Ran Graham
Speaker 2: up and I brought her in.
Speaker 1: Glenn Taylor asked John if there was anything else he
Speaker 1: wanted to raise in the interview.
Speaker 2: No, just I'd like to reiterate about the media.
Speaker 1: That's all.
Speaker 4: I'll preclude the interview now at ten sixteen am, and
Speaker 4: we will then seal the tapes in your presence and
Speaker 4: you'll be provided with a copy of the tape.
Speaker 1: Do you own this format? Yeah? And that's where the
Speaker 1: interview ended. On one of our drives to Lennox Head,
Speaker 1: Mattie Walsh and I lost our way while sharing ideas
Speaker 1: about the case, I've ended up yelling up.
Speaker 5: The h the scenic group.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Did you notice that.
Speaker 5: I have no navigational skills?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 5: Slack?
Speaker 6: Something called natural splashaw, this is.
Speaker 1: Quote pretty, It's good, Glinn. I'm driving down at the moment.
Speaker 7: I'm not too far out actually, and I'm with you, Maddie.
Speaker 1: Did you try and interview him again after that first
Speaker 1: one in ninety eight? Do you remember again?
Speaker 5: Think we did?
Speaker 8: I don't think we had any more approaches, but we
Speaker 8: would have had a couple of phone calls, like if
Speaker 8: I made a phone call and say John Winfield was
Speaker 8: a computer generated running shoet was called Eagle Eye at
Speaker 8: the time, and it was a new system for major incidents,
Speaker 8: and I had it on the computer. So everything was
Speaker 8: transferred onto that major incident system.
Speaker 1: But whatever happed to it, nail like I got.
Speaker 4: We held off for quite some time and his insistence
Speaker 4: he didn't want anything going in the media, and then.
Speaker 9: He didn't want eating in the papers. He didn't want
Speaker 9: any in the media about her disappearance. We told him
Speaker 9: and said, look, it's going in the lead here. So
Speaker 9: he was unhappy about it. He was very much against
Speaker 9: the medium being involved.
Speaker 1: I'm drawing close to the Lennox. Are you around today
Speaker 1: or are you out of town?
Speaker 6: Oh?
Speaker 1: I'm numbering around. So I've just entered the ballot of
Speaker 1: shy now and they rode for Byron.
Speaker 7: All right, Yeah, there was one thing I wanted to
Speaker 7: check though. Do you recall whether John ever filed for
Speaker 7: divorce from Broadwind after she went on.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that answer.
Speaker 10: I certainly don't thinking had or I was not aware of.
Speaker 5: It, certainly up to the inquest stage.
Speaker 4: I discharged from the police after that, but that inquest
Speaker 4: declined her then officially perceased.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I suppose he could then go ahead with it,
Speaker 1: or he could be still legally married. He's just a widow,
Speaker 1: and that's right.
Speaker 11: I did some title deed searches as well of the property,
Speaker 11: of saying so crazy, all right, Yeah, it looks like
Speaker 11: he sold that in ninety nine, which was interesting timing,
Speaker 11: But just your investigations well underway by then.
Speaker 1: The property was only in his day. I think you
Speaker 1: knew that as well.
Speaker 4: He would have gone about saying that she's vacated her
Speaker 4: It's just so strong circumstantial case. There's no other reasonable
Speaker 4: hypothesis that she's gone out the door that night, leaving
Speaker 4: those two kids there, never to return again. Such a
Speaker 4: good mother, you just wouldn't leave those kids. Everything tells
Speaker 4: you there's been an incident in the home that night,
Speaker 4: she's met with foul play.
Speaker 1: Just every single thing points to it.
Speaker 10: I da't believe for one moment that she made a
Speaker 10: phone call and then somebody mysteriously just turns up and
Speaker 10: he doesn't even look out the front to investigate who
Speaker 10: it is or what cars she's getting him.
Speaker 1: You I've wondered whether when you can't discover that Bromwin's
Speaker 1: mother had disappeared, whether that had an impact on his thinking.
Speaker 1: Shouldn't have, but whether it did. You just have to
Speaker 1: do your normal things.
Speaker 10: You would do an investigation even if they do turn
Speaker 10: up a week.
Speaker 1: Later or two weeks later. You should still do these things.
Speaker 4: Zam and the scene, zam and the guard document document,
Speaker 4: get a version of the person.
Speaker 1: Like formerly, any of your statement. None of these things
Speaker 1: were done now.
Speaker 8: It's just not good police work at all and certainly
Speaker 8: doesn't follow good investigative practices.
Speaker 1: Neglect for laziness, however you want to put it before
Speaker 1: going further. It is important to deal with the spearing
Speaker 1: of a woman who is not around to defend her reputation.
Speaker 1: Barbara Read, the mother of Bromwin, Kim and Andy. Barbara
Speaker 1: would have turned eighty five this year. She died in
Speaker 1: two thousand and six, four years after the then Deputy
Speaker 1: State Coroner terminated an inquest and recommended that a murder
Speaker 1: charge be leveled against Barbara's son in law, John Winfield.
Speaker 1: Among the documents which have survived since the initial police
Speaker 1: investigation in nineteen ninety three is a copy of Bromwin's
Speaker 1: monthly telephone bill from Byron Street with itemized calls for Sunday,
Speaker 1: May nine, it was Mother's Day. Bromwyn called Barbara at
Speaker 1: her home in Tasmania, where she was living with Kim Marshall,
Speaker 1: Barbara's youngest daughter. There is evidence of a number of
Speaker 1: calls between Barbara and Bromwin. It appears they had a
Speaker 1: fond relationship despite the separation. In Bromwin's formative years. Bromwyn
Speaker 1: and Andy were unaware for much of their childhood of
Speaker 1: their mother's existence. They were led to believe that Jennifer,
Speaker 1: her father's second wife, was their mother. Kim told me
Speaker 1: that her mother, Barbara, became unwell suddenly in two thousand
Speaker 1: and six. She had pancreatic cancer and it must have
Speaker 1: spread quickly. Kim wrote to me about Barbara's efforts to
Speaker 1: see her grandchildren Crystal and Lauren before the cancer claimed her.
Speaker 1: I asked Kim to read some of her note. It
Speaker 1: describes Barbara's last days in two thousand and six. That
Speaker 1: was thirteen years after her daughter vanished. By then, Christel
Speaker 1: was twenty three, Lauren was eighteen.
Speaker 12: Mum had wanted to travel up several times to Bronnie. However,
Speaker 12: it never occurred. On the twenty fourth, we celebrated Ronnie's
Speaker 12: birthday on the ward, and after prompting her, Barbie agreed
Speaker 12: to phone Jonathan, hoping to speak to Lauren and if
Speaker 12: it would be possible for Lauren to come down to
Speaker 12: see her. Unfortunately, Barbie's requests were denied. I recall her
Speaker 12: holding herself with dignity, and she did weep. I know
Speaker 12: she shed tears that afternoon as I stayed behind that
Speaker 12: day and kept an eye over my beautiful mum until
Speaker 12: her cares had got her ready for sleep. Her weeping
Speaker 12: was silent, and as always, she did not complain nor
Speaker 12: let her sadness overtake her. My mother was the most
Speaker 12: graceful woman this day. Earlier, we had all cried from
Speaker 12: our disappointments, and Barbie consoled us and guided.
Speaker 5: Us to move onwards. She expressed that too much.
Speaker 12: Time had passed and that it was probably best to
Speaker 12: just let things be.
Speaker 1: Kim Marshall has been an unstintingly loyal daughter. At the
Speaker 1: same time, she is candid about her and her mother,
Speaker 1: Barbara's mental health challenges. You'll recall that Kim was born
Speaker 1: several years after Barbara's marriage to Philip had collapsed. Barbara
Speaker 1: lost their two small children, Bromwin and Andy. At that time,
Speaker 1: she must have been inconsolable. She was also mentally fragile.
Speaker 1: She stayed out of their lives and left the mother
Speaker 1: in to Philip's new wife, Jennifer. You heard Kim describe
Speaker 1: her mother's version of some of the events in episode five.
Speaker 12: As Brown moved from being a baby to a chiddler,
Speaker 12: Philip was not at home as much, and then she
Speaker 12: became pregnant with Andrew, and then Mums felt she had
Speaker 12: developed postnatal depression.
Speaker 5: After having Andrew.
Speaker 12: Mum had multiple crisis situations going on in her life.
Speaker 12: That's when her mental health became compromised and she probably
Speaker 12: had what they described as a breakdown. The lawyer advised
Speaker 12: that Mum would most likely be judged as an unfit
Speaker 12: mother due to the opinions of the Reed family, and
Speaker 12: that she perhaps should actually not worry about contesting custody
Speaker 12: because it would be a horrible case to have to
Speaker 12: go and attend court to go through, and it might
Speaker 12: be better if she just looks after her mother and
Speaker 12: perhaps go is suggested. On an overseas traveling trip, for
Speaker 12: a period of time to recover and recuperate and then
Speaker 12: return to Australia and then look at maybe perhaps making
Speaker 12: connections with her children and building a new life. So
Speaker 12: much pressure in a woman's life, and she thought she
Speaker 12: was making a sound decision based on the advice that
Speaker 12: she had been given, and the you'd probably say the
Speaker 12: lack of support.
Speaker 1: Andy and Kim have read the same transcript of interview
Speaker 1: which I've been reproducing in this episode and the previous ones,
Speaker 1: the transcript of John Winfield's interview in which certain things
Speaker 1: stripped of their context were said about Barbara, their mother.
Speaker 1: I can't avoid it, but and you know what he says.
Speaker 13: Anything he's actually asked about that night or anything about
Speaker 13: Bromwin is very very deflective about. But all of a
Speaker 13: sudden his memory is just raise or sharp on all
Speaker 13: sorts of other major issues, including coming up with this
Speaker 13: opinion the mum. And here he is just absolutely slandering
Speaker 13: someone recorded interview with the police, a bit of the
Speaker 13: plot call and the kettle black.
Speaker 1: Isn't it?
Speaker 12: My mum didn't constitute herself. She was joining what I
Speaker 12: would probably say was a feminist women's movement. She even
Speaker 12: made a speech before she got unwell, and she also
Speaker 12: spoke about my conception at that introductory night that she
Speaker 12: had to stand up in front of everyone, and everyone
Speaker 12: stood up and af Florida her.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, Kim does not have the speech. Now, perhaps Barbara
Speaker 1: spoke freely without notes, but Barbara's statement to Detective Sergeant
Speaker 1: Glenn Taylor has survived. It tells a remarkable story. Before
Speaker 1: publishing it, Maddie and I decided to check to see
Speaker 1: whether Kim would be okay about that. We were less
Speaker 1: apprehensive about Andy, who usually refers to his biological mother
Speaker 1: as Barbara and his stepmother as Mum.
Speaker 12: I've had the most brilliant childhood with my mother. We
Speaker 12: didn't have a car, we caught fusses, We've got lifts.
Speaker 5: She took me to.
Speaker 12: Every single athletic event, probably for twenty years, and she
Speaker 12: has hit so afit gp disorder.
Speaker 1: Your mother as an account in her statement, and she
Speaker 1: also talks about your own conception.
Speaker 12: My mother being the incredible person that she was, she
Speaker 12: told me from the youngest age, I knew where I
Speaker 12: came from, why I came about, and I knew the
Speaker 12: reason that I was conceived. And I think I wore
Speaker 12: that with a badge of honors.
Speaker 5: I was what kept her alive. I'd love to have
Speaker 5: it heard, because Maddie, I know you're impartial.
Speaker 12: The Reed family actually uses the word abandonment. Really, I
Speaker 12: said to Headley in the podcast, I wore that because
Speaker 12: I have an objective.
Speaker 5: I actually have been made to be so quiet and
Speaker 5: missy for so long. I just want the truth out so
Speaker 5: I can actually let it all go.
Speaker 12: It's not my place to get hysterical and upset about
Speaker 12: people's past opinions or people's recollections. I want all the truth.
Speaker 12: My mum's bought is going to be absolutely amazing. It's
Speaker 12: going to help other women. She wanted to publish her
Speaker 12: life and her story, and she had started her.
Speaker 5: Writing what do you want going forward? For this case?
Speaker 12: With what I know now? Pushing the police and staying
Speaker 12: in constant contact with the police, my obligation is to
Speaker 12: find Roman's body.
Speaker 1: Six weeks after sitting down with John in the Ballana
Speaker 1: Police station, Detective Wayne Temby flew to Tasmania. This is
Speaker 1: what Barbara Read, the mother of Rom, Kim and Andy,
Speaker 1: told him in nineteen ninety eight.
Speaker 14: My age is fifty nine. I am a single woman.
Speaker 14: After Bronwyn was born, I suffered severe postnatal depression. My
Speaker 14: husband Philip found out that I was sleeping in until
Speaker 14: ten am of a morning, and he and the other
Speaker 14: reads did not like the fact that I was doing that,
Speaker 14: so they arranged for me to see a psychiatrist. He
Speaker 14: did various tests and it was discovered that I was
Speaker 14: suffering from loneliness in which led to depression. Philip was
Speaker 14: a real man's man, and he would go to work
Speaker 14: through the week and on weekends either play sport or
Speaker 14: go to the hotel with his mates, while I stayed
Speaker 14: at home and watched bronwyin. I did exactly what doctor
Speaker 14: Lehmann told me to and I became well again. A
Speaker 14: short time later, I gave birth to a son named
Speaker 14: Andrew Philip. After Andrew's birth, I was still feeling very well,
Speaker 14: although I was feeling a little bit run down and tired.
Speaker 14: In November nineteen sixty four, my father passed away, and
Speaker 14: I was very devastated because I came to lean on
Speaker 14: my father whilst I was ill. Philip was never violent,
Speaker 14: but drank alcohol very heavily. At the end of the holidays,
Speaker 14: I returned to Wollongong with my mother and went to
Speaker 14: our house and there was no one home. I tried
Speaker 14: to get in and all the locks were changed. I
Speaker 14: then went to his parents' house at Ferry Meadow and
Speaker 14: Philip and Bronwyn and Andrew were there. At this time,
Speaker 14: Bronwyn was three years old and Andrew was five months old.
Speaker 14: I spoke to Philip and he told me that he
Speaker 14: wasn't letting me into the home and that our marriage
Speaker 14: was over. His father told me that he would ring
Speaker 14: up a motel for me to stay in the night,
Speaker 14: and that I couldn't stay at their house or at
Speaker 14: my own home either. Mum and I stayed at the
Speaker 14: motel that night and headed for Sydney the next day.
Speaker 14: The legal proceedings then commenced in relation to custody of
Speaker 14: the children and the divorce. They told me that I
Speaker 14: would not stand a chance in a court because of
Speaker 14: my illness, and they were claiming that I was an
Speaker 14: unfit mother. My solicitor told me that I may get custody,
Speaker 14: but I knew what my mental state of mind was
Speaker 14: at the time, because it had deteriorated very quickly over
Speaker 14: the four weeks since Philip left me. I was well
Speaker 14: aware that I was in no condition to look after
Speaker 14: the children by myself, and my mother, who was sixty
Speaker 14: four at the time, was too old to look after
Speaker 14: two small children. My mother decided that we should go
Speaker 14: overseas in an attempt to brighten me up and get
Speaker 14: me out of this deep depression I was in. Just
Speaker 14: prior to leaving to go overseas, I took an overdose
Speaker 14: of nembutale and nearly died, ending up in the intensive
Speaker 14: care unit of Monaval Hospital. Shortly afterwards, Philip sold our
Speaker 14: house and forwarded me some money from the sale. He
Speaker 14: wanted to give me two thousand pound, but Iony asked
Speaker 14: for a thousand pound and requested that the other thousand
Speaker 14: pound be given to the children. In February nineteen sixty five,
Speaker 14: my mother and I went overseas to the United Kingdom.
Speaker 14: We traveled through Europe and then back to the United Kingdom,
Speaker 14: where I lived on the money that Philip had forwarded
Speaker 14: me from the sale of the house, and I remained
Speaker 14: working as a nanny in London for a further two years.
Speaker 14: During this period, my illness improved rapidly because of the
Speaker 14: assistance I was given from the family who employed me.
Speaker 14: I returned to Australia to my mother, who had moved
Speaker 14: to Tasmania. I stayed in Tasmania for a little while
Speaker 14: and attempted to take up nursing again. I saw numerous
Speaker 14: doctors during this period, and I was discharged after being
Speaker 14: diagnosed with schizophrenia.
Speaker 5: I then went to Sydney and.
Speaker 14: I decided that I wanted to have another child because
Speaker 14: I was unable to see my other two children. I
Speaker 14: went to King's Cross and walked the street, and over
Speaker 14: a period of three nights and four days, during the
Speaker 14: middle of my menstrual cycle, I had intercourse with eight
Speaker 14: different men who were all of European blood. I wanted
Speaker 14: a child with European blood, so I picked three Italians,
Speaker 14: one Yugoslavian, one Hungarian, one Englishman, an Australian, and one
Speaker 14: American from the streets around King's Cross. Shortly afterwards, I
Speaker 14: discovered I was pregnant, but I do not know which
Speaker 14: one was the father. I later returned to my mother's
Speaker 14: place in Tasmania, and my mother, who was old fashioned,
Speaker 14: was a little bit of shamed that I had decided
Speaker 14: to have an illegitimate child. I then went to a
Speaker 14: friend's house at Melbourne and my daughter, Kim Marie, was
Speaker 14: born in the nineteenth of November nineteen seventy one. After
Speaker 14: Kim was born, my mother had forgiven me.
Speaker 5: One PM.
Speaker 14: One evening in nineteen seventy five, I received a phone
Speaker 14: call at home from my ex husband Philip. He told
Speaker 14: me that my children wished to see me. I was
Speaker 14: thrilled because I had not seen them since nineteen sixty four.
Speaker 14: Kim was four years old at the time, and I've
Speaker 14: organized to fly both of us to Sydney and we
Speaker 14: booked into the Wentworth Hotel. Philip told me that the
Speaker 14: children could stay over the weekend and he would pay
Speaker 14: for the room alongside mine. We had a wonderful reunion
Speaker 14: and we've kept in constant contact ever since. I've been
Speaker 14: to Bronwyn's first wedding, and Andrew's wedding, and all the
Speaker 14: grandchildren's christenings. Ever since, I go to Sydney and stay
Speaker 14: with Andrew and his wife Michelle on a regular basis.
Speaker 14: Bronwyn married a man by the name of John Winfield
Speaker 14: in a quiet ceremony in either Sydney or Ballina. I
Speaker 14: didn't even know that they got married.
Speaker 5: I was aware that.
Speaker 14: In nineteen ninety they'd moved to Lennox Head on the
Speaker 14: north coast of New South Wales. In January nineteen ninety
Speaker 14: Andrew married Michelle in Sydney and I went over for
Speaker 14: the wedding and I saw Bronwyn there. I hadn't spoken
Speaker 14: to Bromwin for a long time, and my mother told
Speaker 14: Bromwin that she was wrong for not contacting me. Brown
Speaker 14: told my mother that she would keep in contact in
Speaker 14: the future, and she did from then on. At the
Speaker 14: beginning of nineteen ninety three, I received a telephone call
Speaker 14: from Bronwyn and she told me that she was very
Speaker 14: unhappy living with John and that she was of the
Speaker 14: opinion that John was having an affair. I asked her
Speaker 14: if she wanted me to fly over and help her,
Speaker 14: and she told me that things would be all right
Speaker 14: and that she could cope. She told me not to
Speaker 14: worry and said that she would battle on. A couple
Speaker 14: of weeks later, I received a telephone call from Bronwyn
Speaker 14: and she asked me if I could see my mother
Speaker 14: and ask her for a loan of one thousand dollars.
Speaker 14: She told me that she wanted to move into a
Speaker 14: unit with the two children so that they could be
Speaker 14: away from John. I begged my mother, but she declined.
Speaker 14: I got another phone call shortly afterwards, and she told
Speaker 14: me that John was going to give her the thousand
Speaker 14: dollars and that she was moving. She told me not
Speaker 14: to worry, and that she would keep in touch and
Speaker 14: let me know how she was going and where she
Speaker 14: was living. On Mother's Day in nineteen ninety three, Bronwin
Speaker 14: rang me and told me that she was living in
Speaker 14: a flat and she had the two girls, Cristel and Lauren,
Speaker 14: with her. She supplied the address and telephone number, and
Speaker 14: she appeared to be in reasonably good spirits. She did
Speaker 14: sound happy and very confident. About one week later, Bromwin
Speaker 14: again rang me and told me that she was returning
Speaker 14: to the house and that John was going to move out.
Speaker 14: She told me that she would finally be rid of him,
Speaker 14: that he had been pestering her. She told me that
Speaker 14: he wanted to move into the garage, but Bromwin was
Speaker 14: not in agreement to that, and they had then decided
Speaker 14: that he move out altogether. This was the last time
Speaker 14: that I heard from Bronwyn, and a couple of weeks
Speaker 14: later I was informed by the police that Bromwn was missing.
Speaker 14: I have rung John on a number of occasions and
Speaker 14: he told me that on the night she disappeared, she
Speaker 14: went into the bedroom and made a phone call, put
Speaker 14: her purse under her arm, and walked out of the house.
Speaker 14: She then got into a car which had pulled up outside,
Speaker 14: and the car drove off, and that was the last
Speaker 14: he had seen of her. He also told me during
Speaker 14: another telephone conversation that Bronwyn or someone had returned to
Speaker 14: the home and taken Bronwyn's clothes and a jumper and
Speaker 14: a pair of jenes of his. He also told me
Speaker 14: that a Medicare check had been left on the kitchen table,
Speaker 14: which was signed by Bronwyn. I telephoned John Winfield when
Speaker 14: I moved into my flat in Arthur Street two years
Speaker 14: ago and told him my new address and telephone number
Speaker 14: so that I could keep in contact with my grandchildren.
Speaker 14: I have not heard from him since that time. I've
Speaker 14: written numerous letters to him and the children, and none
Speaker 14: of them have been answered. I know that Bronwin was
Speaker 14: a devoted mother to the children, and I find it
Speaker 14: extremely hard.
Speaker 5: To believe that she would go off and leave.
Speaker 14: Them both Crystal and Lauren were her whole life. I
Speaker 14: can understand her not contacting me because she's done it
Speaker 14: in the past, but she would most definitely contact the children.
Speaker 14: I am of the belief that Bronwyn has met with
Speaker 14: some form of foul play.
Speaker 1: Among Barbara's letters and keepsakes was one written to her
Speaker 1: by Bromwin's cousin Megan, and Meghan agreed to read some
Speaker 1: of it for this episode.
Speaker 15: I hope that this letter finds you, Kim, and your
Speaker 15: mum all in the best of health, all as well
Speaker 15: with Andrew Michelle. They told me they are hoping to
Speaker 15: start a family, sir, which I think is wonderful. I
Speaker 15: don't think that Robin really knows what she has in you.
Speaker 15: I think that she's also very astraighted becoming too close
Speaker 15: to you after all the pain of losing her dad.
Speaker 15: Deep down inside, she's crying out for your love, and
Speaker 15: I know that if she saw more of you, she
Speaker 15: would greatly benefit from it.
Speaker 1: Barbara's poignant story is a lot to take in her
Speaker 1: mental health challenges starting in the nineteen sixties, when depression
Speaker 1: was not well understood, the end of her marriage soon
Speaker 1: after the loss of her home and her two very
Speaker 1: small children, Bronwin and Andy, who didn't know about her
Speaker 1: for years. All of it is very sad, but I
Speaker 1: think that it helps explain some of Kim's motivations. In
Speaker 1: addition to trying to get justice for her sister Bronwyn,
Speaker 1: Kim is still honoring their mum, Barbara. On the outskirts
Speaker 1: of Brisbane the morning of the release of this episode,
Speaker 1: Maddie and I walked to the top of a hill
Speaker 1: and we talked about Barbara's lot in life, her children,
Speaker 1: and her legacy. Maddie, when I think of Barbara in
Speaker 1: the context of being Bromwin's mother, it's hard to avoid
Speaker 1: some similarities and patterns.
Speaker 6: Yeah, definitely, Barbara disappeared from her kids' lives when they
Speaker 6: were very young, and it was due to Barbara's mental
Speaker 6: health issues. There's this pattern that kind of emerges here
Speaker 6: where we see two young mums being pushed out of
Speaker 6: their kids' lives. John created a bit of this pattern
Speaker 6: because he created this idea that Bromwyn was going through
Speaker 6: what her mother went through, these mental health challenges, and
Speaker 6: that's why she left. We know with multiple witness recounts
Speaker 6: and witness statements. Later on that Bromwin wasn't going through
Speaker 6: what her mother went through. John created that and led
Speaker 6: with that, and the police listen to that and believe that.
Speaker 6: We can see how what happened to Barbara does tie
Speaker 6: into the pattern of what happened to Bromwyn. We can
Speaker 6: see even in the early nineties, it was just accepted
Speaker 6: that Bromwyn wasn't doing well mentally and decided to leave
Speaker 6: her kids.
Speaker 5: By the police.
Speaker 1: It wasn't accepted by the family.
Speaker 6: No, it wasn't accepted by the family. It wasn't accepted
Speaker 6: by her friends. But the police just listened to John.
Speaker 6: They just listened to her estranged husband.
Speaker 1: And in that way, Barbara's known mental illness has been
Speaker 1: recycled and exploited and transferred falsely to Bromwin as an
Speaker 1: explanation for what's happened.
Speaker 6: We know in the long run, Barbara did return and
Speaker 6: she did reconnect with her kids when they were older,
Speaker 6: and we know Bromwyn never came back. These are two
Speaker 6: very different situations. She was fine, She loved her kids,
Speaker 6: and she would never leave them. She was the one
Speaker 6: that was with them every single day.
Speaker 1: You've been a great help to me in helping navigate
Speaker 1: some of the family tensions. But I look at it
Speaker 1: in the context now of Barbara's life and of Kim
Speaker 1: growing up in Tasmania with her mother. Her children didn't
Speaker 1: even know of her existence until they were quite a
Speaker 1: bit older. Kim's grown up with that. Kim must have
Speaker 1: heard her mother describing this terrible time she had, her
Speaker 1: perception of being completely sidelined because of her mental health.
Speaker 6: It's a very difficult situation because there are so many
Speaker 6: different sides to this story. You have Kim, who knew
Speaker 6: Barbara as a mother, and then you have Andy and Bromwyn,
Speaker 6: who didn't know of Barbara until they were nine eleven
Speaker 6: years old. Her growing up with Barbara and hearing Barbara
Speaker 6: being pushed out of the kids' lives is it essentially
Speaker 6: does look like abandonment. Barbara was going through some really
Speaker 6: difficult things after she had from woman Andy. It wasn't
Speaker 6: well understood back then. The way the reads would have
Speaker 6: understood it would have been Barbara's not doing her motherly
Speaker 6: duties and Barbara's not looking after her kids the way
Speaker 6: she's supposed to. Pushing Barbara out of the kids' lives,
Speaker 6: they would have felt was best for the kids. In
Speaker 6: this situation, we kind of have to accept all sides
Speaker 6: and know that everyone experienced a very tricky situation.
Speaker 1: It wouldn't happen today where a woman, a mother of
Speaker 1: two children who had depression was effectively written out of
Speaker 1: their children's lives. Andy and Broman's dad, Philip, for whom
Speaker 1: they had enormous regard, is not around anymore. We don't
Speaker 1: know why he maintained this fiction to them that they
Speaker 1: only had Jennifer as their mother, Jennifer being Philip's second wife.
Speaker 6: These days, postparton depression and depression itself are very openly
Speaker 6: accepted and very openly supported by families and doctors.
Speaker 1: Many people would not want to talk so openly about
Speaker 1: these kinds of family problems and even secrets. Kim, however,
Speaker 1: has just been so candid and open about it. It
Speaker 1: helps bring about understanding. But it's also important for Kim
Speaker 1: for a range of reasons.
Speaker 6: It's really important to Kim that she shares this and
Speaker 6: she gets it out there to the wider community. A
Speaker 6: lot of families go through all kinds of situations that
Speaker 6: they feel may not be accepted by everyone. For Kim
Speaker 6: to be so courageous and open about It could possibly
Speaker 6: make people feel less alone in their situations, because we
Speaker 6: know families have all kinds of skeletons and all kinds
Speaker 6: of history that they could be ashamed of, and they
Speaker 6: could be hard to accept.
Speaker 5: Now that we're in a day and age.
Speaker 6: Where this can be shared and accepted, I feel this
Speaker 6: is what Kim needs.
Speaker 1: Without the remarkable help of volunteers, this podcast investigation would
Speaker 1: miss so much. The sharp intellect and common sense of
Speaker 1: so many curious listeners is revealed time and again in
Speaker 1: their emails to me and in their posts to the
Speaker 1: Bromwin Facebook discussion group. The listeners who are doing their
Speaker 1: own research to try to help are far too many
Speaker 1: to list. I'll mention just a few now. Karina Berger,
Speaker 1: from whom you've been hearing in recent episodes, and Susie
Speaker 1: Newman in the subscriber only episodes eleven and twelve. And
Speaker 1: there's a former police detective who would prefer that I
Speaker 1: did not name her. She's been helping in all these revelations.
Speaker 1: Most recently, there's Ella Bryant. After seeing one of Ella's
Speaker 1: cut through posts, we spoke on the phone. It was
Speaker 1: shortly before the release of this episode, and she confided
Speaker 1: that Bromwin's case had kept her awake, it's compelled her
Speaker 1: to consider all of the detail with great care. Ella
Speaker 1: writes pages of notes at home after listening to the episodes.
Speaker 1: I asked her to record some of her notes to
Speaker 1: share them here. Too.
Speaker 16: Admitted that the powers of an ADHD hyperfixation are at
Speaker 16: play here for me, But I've lived in the Norman
Speaker 16: River since the nineties, and I've recently self represented in
Speaker 16: a relatively complex court case. So my interest in Bronwin's
Speaker 16: story and justice as a whole, I guess, have met
Speaker 16: at a few unexpected intersections here. One thing that stood
Speaker 16: out to me with the contradictions of memory, or the
Speaker 16: selective nature of John's memory, specifically an interviewed by investigating
Speaker 16: police when it comes to the hours, days, weeks, and
Speaker 16: years surrounding Bronwin's disappearance, John can't recall anything of importance
Speaker 16: when interviewed.
Speaker 1: Well up until that point, hag you communicated to braun
Speaker 1: One what you intended to do, whether you stay in
Speaker 1: the family home.
Speaker 2: Or Oh no, no, I just maybe there was, Oh,
Speaker 2: I can't remember. Maybe there was a discussion about sleeping arrangements.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I might have said I'll sleep on
Speaker 2: the lounge. I don't know what I said. I really
Speaker 2: can't remember.
Speaker 1: But that was it.
Speaker 2: You know, I had a couple of cups of tea.
Speaker 2: I wasn't really sort of tired. I wasn't in a
Speaker 2: sleeping sort of mood. And then like we heard a
Speaker 2: car pull up, and she opened the front door, and
Speaker 2: she was off, and she left the front door open,
Speaker 2: and I heard the car go off up the hill.
Speaker 16: No conversations, no arguments, very few detailed timelines that might
Speaker 16: help the investigation. It's all sort of portrayed as a
Speaker 16: blurred memory, especially the night she went missing.
Speaker 2: Can you tell us what was talked about? I got
Speaker 2: no idea. I can't remember what we talked about at
Speaker 2: the moment. We may not even have had too much discussion.
Speaker 2: I really can't remember, to tell you the truth, she
Speaker 2: didn't ask me anything about Sydney. I didn't really ask
Speaker 2: her anything about Lennox or probably about the kids, you know,
Speaker 2: just probably about the kids.
Speaker 16: But he can recall, often years later, very specific things
Speaker 16: like the amount of money that the bond cost for
Speaker 16: the unit at Byron Street, which was six hundred dollars,
Speaker 16: and the full name of the landlord being Shirley Taylor,
Speaker 16: the balance of Bronwin's private bank account, which he couldn't access,
Speaker 16: being one thousand dollars.
Speaker 2: So I gave her money for the bond, and I
Speaker 2: made it out to the lady the the landlord down there,
Speaker 2: Shirley Taylor. But later on I found out that she
Speaker 2: did have money because Graham told me she had a grand.
Speaker 1: In the bank.
Speaker 16: The amount of money and child support that Bronwin had
Speaker 16: asked John to transfer into Lauren's account monthly.
Speaker 2: At that stage, she was after me to put some
Speaker 2: sort of one hundred and twenty five bucks or something
Speaker 2: a month into Lauren's account, which I was sort of
Speaker 2: negotiating with her to do like a child support sort
Speaker 2: of thing.
Speaker 16: The amount of money each clairvoyant session with Pendragon had
Speaker 16: cost Bronwin being thirty dollars, and Pendragon's home street address
Speaker 16: in Lenox.
Speaker 2: Some guy that lives at Sunrise Place at Lenox Head.
Speaker 2: She'd been seeing him for quite a while apparently, and
Speaker 2: at one stage she said to one of her girlfriends
Speaker 2: that she thought this clairvoyant was her father, you know,
Speaker 2: sort of like I said, her father's already passed away
Speaker 2: years ago. Apparently she used to pay this bloke thirty
Speaker 2: dollars a pop.
Speaker 16: The month and year that Bronwin allegedly had a nervous breakdown,
Speaker 16: including the names of two doctors who he suggested had
Speaker 16: treated her for depression.
Speaker 1: She reckons.
Speaker 2: She told me just before we separated that she had
Speaker 2: a nervous breakdown in the January of nineteen ninety three,
Speaker 2: all right, and I said to her, you know, what's
Speaker 2: a nervous breakdown? And she went to see the doctor
Speaker 2: in Lennox. I don't know if it was doctor Watson
Speaker 2: or doctor Hughes.
Speaker 16: The full name of the solicitor that he knew Bronwyn
Speaker 16: had seen in Balana.
Speaker 2: Graham told me that she'd spoken to a guy in Ballina,
Speaker 2: Tony Mannering, the.
Speaker 16: Suburb where Jacko's mother lived in Sydney, and.
Speaker 2: Apparently from what her girlfriends had told me, that she'd
Speaker 2: sort of sort of fallen for this Jacko bloke, you know.
Speaker 2: And I think Graham contacted him at Brera. I'm not
Speaker 2: one hundred percent, but I know someone told me his
Speaker 2: mother lives at Barrow in Sydney, the.
Speaker 16: Time of day being two pm. That Bronwin had organized
Speaker 16: removalists to collect her things from Sandstone Crescent when she
Speaker 16: moved out, Bronwin's mother's mental health diagnosis, the country she
Speaker 16: fled to, which was England, and the number of years
Speaker 16: she was gone. I am trying to make sense of
Speaker 16: these things. I wonder how John can claim that both
Speaker 16: things are true, that he does remember, and also that
Speaker 16: he doesn't. The things that John does recollect seem to
Speaker 16: serve only his version of events, rather than being of
Speaker 16: much use to the investigating police or family. We know
Speaker 16: that humans more often than not remember their traumas we
Speaker 16: store it. We often relive it. Even if we assume
Speaker 16: that John's version of events is true, your wife living
Speaker 16: in the middle of the night and never being seen
Speaker 16: again would be a pivotal moment in your adult life.
Speaker 16: At the very least, it's an unforgettable event. John is
Speaker 16: able to recall full names, bank account balances, street addresses
Speaker 16: of people, some time relative strangers, as well as phone
Speaker 16: calls made from the house, conversations that he had with
Speaker 16: the police, including the contents of those conversations. It seems
Speaker 16: plausible that he could remember more about, perhaps the conversations
Speaker 16: that we had the night that Bronwin went missing.
Speaker 1: He is Andy's wife, Michelle.
Speaker 5: And I thought, yeah, you've got the memory when you wanted,
Speaker 5: haven't you.
Speaker 1: Karina Berger, who has experienced as a lawyer in coronial investigations,
Speaker 1: summarized John's interview this way.
Speaker 5: It was very.
Speaker 17: Difficult to understand and really unpleasant to read, because it's
Speaker 17: just all over the shop and sort of quite nonsensical
Speaker 17: in places. And he seemed to have a very poor
Speaker 17: recollection and be a very poor historian. But then all
Speaker 17: of a sudden he pinpoints with quite a bit of
Speaker 17: accuracy this time or Bronwin left it about accorded to midnight.
Speaker 2: Because I came back on the Sunday and she left
Speaker 2: on the Sunday night about midnight, is that right? I mean,
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, after the phone calls that she
Speaker 2: apparently made, you know, I heard a car pull up.
Speaker 2: I was sitting there at the dining room table and
Speaker 2: she was in the bedroom and a car pulled up,
Speaker 2: and I mean she opened the front door and she
Speaker 2: was off.
Speaker 1: That was it. What time was that, Vina?
Speaker 2: About quarters to midnight? I think eleven o'clock. I don't know,
Speaker 2: you know, it's probably down there somewhere, which I.
Speaker 17: Just found really owed, and then I started to think
Speaker 17: about it, and I thought, well, hang on, Jude's up
Speaker 17: in the night on the balcony says that he and
Speaker 17: her more or less locked eyes as he went past.
Speaker 17: So whether knowing that and having had that visual contact
Speaker 17: with her, he's then trying to put in their minds
Speaker 17: that any reference to that car at that time is
Speaker 17: actually Bronwin leaving rather than him going.
Speaker 5: Himself with her.
Speaker 17: Jude does say it was about midnight, but I just
Speaker 17: wonder why would he hone in on that time? How
Speaker 17: would he know that time when he otherwise says, oh,
Speaker 17: I was just sitting around drinking cups of tea, and
Speaker 17: I don't know what we spoke about or what we
Speaker 17: did or who did what, or it's so vague. But
Speaker 17: for that detail, your.
Speaker 1: Theory is that possibly John's aware or suspects that Judy
Speaker 1: Singh has gone to the police told them what she's
Speaker 1: seen around midnight, and he knows that someone was up
Speaker 1: around midnight and he saw that person, and so he's
Speaker 1: trying to work out how to deal with that, and
Speaker 1: therefore he thinks he'll offer the idea that Bromin was
Speaker 1: leaving around midnight so that the police will think, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: there's the explanation for what this witness who's come forward
Speaker 1: has said. John had previously told the police that Bromin
Speaker 1: left around nine nine point thirty. He told the police
Speaker 1: in the earlier investigation in ninety three that how would
Speaker 1: he be able to reconcile those two really different times.
Speaker 17: These investigators didn't pick him up on that and say, well,
Speaker 17: five years ago he said it was at nine o'clock.
Speaker 17: Why have you now adjusted the timeframe.
Speaker 1: We don't know now whether detectives Taylor and Temby were
Speaker 1: silent about the discrepancy for tactical reasons, or whether they
Speaker 1: were just unaware of it at that stage.
Speaker 17: And then, of course the other problem is, well, Judy's evidence, presumably,
Speaker 17: if she'd been spoken to at that time, would have
Speaker 17: been well, I saw John, it was John. It would
Speaker 17: have just been his word against hers.
Speaker 1: He offers that time, and then he asks them the
Speaker 1: question is that right? It's almost like he's seeking information
Speaker 1: from them.
Speaker 17: Strike me that he was giving truthful answers to those questions.
Speaker 17: When you're trying to reconstruct and you've already reconstructed five
Speaker 17: years earlier, it sort of gets harder as you go
Speaker 17: along in your memory fades because you don't have an
Speaker 17: actual memory of the events, you have your earlier story.
Speaker 1: Throughout this series, the woman formerly known as Melissa Reid
Speaker 1: has hovered in and around the evidence in Broman's case
Speaker 1: without appearing in person. Melissa was a big part of
Speaker 1: Broman's life and Brommin was a big part of hers.
Speaker 1: They lived together in the Shire as children. They stayed
Speaker 1: close through adulthood. I've read Melissa's police statement from nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety eight, and I've read multiple references to her in
Speaker 1: the statements of others. But for many years since the
Speaker 1: two thousand and two inquest in Lizmore, Melissa has lived
Speaker 1: her life separately. Andy Kim, Meghan, and other members of
Speaker 1: the Reed family have not been a part of that life.
Speaker 1: Before any episodes were aired, I questioned Meghan, what about Melissa?
Speaker 1: Why isn't she involved?
Speaker 15: She's got a strong will, should always come over, very smart,
Speaker 15: always immaculate, quick wishes. I think Melissa would read more
Speaker 15: than happy to talk to you through the fire.
Speaker 1: Three months before the release of the first episode of Bromwin,
Speaker 1: Maddie was perplexed too, has your mom or anyone said me.
Speaker 1: More about Melissa.
Speaker 6: No, nothing. We still don't know where she is. I
Speaker 6: think she just kind of cut herself off. I don't
Speaker 6: know who has contact with her, If anyone has contact
Speaker 6: with her, does Andrew know?
Speaker 1: When I found and then telephoned Melissa near the start
Speaker 1: of season two to ask her about being a part
Speaker 1: of this series. She was surprised, moved, but wanting very
Speaker 1: much to do her bit to try to help by
Speaker 1: painting her own picture of what she saw and heard.
Speaker 1: You told me that you needed to explain to your
Speaker 1: son that you had a sister. That must have been difficult.
Speaker 1: Has it gone okay?
Speaker 5: It's come as a surprise, but it's done now. It's
Speaker 5: a conversation I've been thinking about having since returning to
Speaker 5: Australia because I didn't want somebody else to say something
Speaker 5: to him without me, as in his mother explaining the background,
Speaker 5: he always had a feeling that there was something.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm really glad that you've agreed to this, and
Speaker 1: I know I called you out of the blue a
Speaker 1: few days ago, and I must have been the surprise
Speaker 1: it did. But it sounds like you had been weighing
Speaker 1: coming forward yourself anyway.
Speaker 5: I'd listened to the podcast. I wasn't sure whether I
Speaker 5: could contribute, and I thought I would just leave it
Speaker 5: and see how things unfolded. And here we are.
Speaker 1: Can you describe Bromman as your sibling? What she was
Speaker 1: like growing up?
Speaker 5: There was never any reference to step brother or half sister.
Speaker 5: She's my sister. It was always quite a strong family unit.
Speaker 5: We had a holiday house. We would all go to
Speaker 5: the beach and Bromwin would make friends. When Barbara decided
Speaker 5: to re emerge, I think that put strain on the
Speaker 5: family unit. I was young, but I remember when she
Speaker 5: suddenly appeared, and certainly for me, it was a big shock,
Speaker 5: and I can only imagine it was for Andrew and
Speaker 5: for Broman.
Speaker 1: I haven't heard anyone in the Read family say a
Speaker 1: bad word about Melissa in my conversations with her. She
Speaker 1: has expressed only respectful and supportive statements about her Read relations.
Speaker 1: But families are baffling sometimes for whatever reason, there has
Speaker 1: been a long term distancing, and who knows, maybe that
Speaker 1: might change with Melissa stepping forward. Now you've had time
Speaker 1: now to read your police statement from all those years ago. Yes,
Speaker 1: what do you think? Having read that and having reflected
Speaker 1: on everything over the decades since.
Speaker 5: To listen to the podcast brings up a lot of
Speaker 5: emotions and frustrations, anger, probably even a little bit of guilt.
Speaker 1: When John and Brommin first started seeing each other and
Speaker 1: you met John, what do you recall observing and telling Bromen.
Speaker 5: I was very close with Brohmen. We spent a lot
Speaker 5: of time together, and when John arrived it did put
Speaker 5: pressure on our friendship. From the get go, there was
Speaker 5: always an element of control. I think it might have
Speaker 5: been a little bit of jealousy for any sort of
Speaker 5: friendships that broman may have had, which I learned to
Speaker 5: work with because I wanted to continue to have a
Speaker 5: relationship with Bromwn and Crystal. At the time, I said
Speaker 5: to Bromwyn, he seems a little bit, a little bit
Speaker 5: possessive probably is the word. She sort of glossed over it.
Speaker 5: I suppose to some extent she'd met somebody she was
Speaker 5: in this new relationship she was polar opposite to certainly
Speaker 5: the relationship she had with John, where John was a
Speaker 5: lot more closed. I had to learn to work hard
Speaker 5: at creating a rapport friendship. Whatever you wish to call
Speaker 5: up with John, we talked about it, and I had
Speaker 5: to work hard at getting along with John. If I
Speaker 5: wanted to have a friendship relationship with my sister, I
Speaker 5: had to get along with John. He was my sister's husband.
Speaker 5: I had to make it work, so I did. That's
Speaker 5: why I went to Lennox Head. I stayed in the house.
Speaker 5: I stayed there six weeks after she disappeared.
Speaker 1: In the previous episode, you heard Kim Marshall describing having
Speaker 1: stayed in the house in Sandstone Crescent as a twenty
Speaker 1: year old single woman in June nineteen ninety three and
Speaker 1: Melissa's concern about that. In Kim's nineteen ninety eight police statement,
Speaker 1: she disclosed that John was emotional when Bromwin's name came up.
Speaker 1: Over those ten days that Kim was there.
Speaker 12: I rang Bromwin and told her of my plans, and
Speaker 12: she was very excited that I was coming over to visit.
Speaker 12: She told me what she had planned for us to do.
Speaker 12: When I arrived, she appeared to be in good spirits
Speaker 12: and seemed to be very happy that she had finally
Speaker 12: left John. She also told me about a man named
Speaker 12: Adam Brook who she was getting advice from, and she
Speaker 12: told me that she wasn't involved with him at that stage,
Speaker 12: but she was thinking about it.
Speaker 1: Kim is talking here about the tarot card reader David Adenbrook.
Speaker 12: She told me that he had been so kind and
Speaker 12: nice to her and was assisting.
Speaker 5: Her with all her problems.
Speaker 12: She also told me that she was getting advice from
Speaker 12: a solicitor about custody and settlement matters. Whilst I stayed
Speaker 12: at John's house, I had numerous conversations with him about
Speaker 12: Broman's disappearance. He told me that they didn't have a
Speaker 12: fight on that night, and that she got picked up
Speaker 12: by someone and left of her own accord, taking only
Speaker 12: her handbag. As soon as we started talking about Bromwin,
Speaker 12: he would become very distant and would often cry while
Speaker 12: talking about her. I recall him telling me that she
Speaker 12: had been running around town on the back of a
Speaker 12: motorbike and was flirting with all the men around town.
Speaker 12: He also told me that she had been talking to
Speaker 12: herself and mumbling, and I recalled John asking what symptoms
Speaker 12: my mother had when she initially suffered from schizophrenia. He
Speaker 12: also told me that Bromwin thought that he was having
Speaker 12: an affair with someone else.
Speaker 1: Melissa was aged twenty four and she turned up in
Speaker 1: June with her then boyfriend Craig. She had a protector
Speaker 1: and Melissa, like Kim, had lots of questions about what
Speaker 1: had unfolded on the night of May sixteen. Do you
Speaker 1: recall feeling apprehensive or concerned about staying in the house
Speaker 1: so soon after she had disappeared.
Speaker 5: I can stay in the house with John alone. I
Speaker 5: was also curious. Rereading the police report drogged my memory,
Speaker 5: and yes, I had been up in Lennox Head about
Speaker 5: six weeks after Bromin had disappeared, which was always being
Speaker 5: planned to go and visit her and the girls, and
Speaker 5: being there even then was difficult. There was a piece
Speaker 5: of me that wanted to suppose snoop is probably the
Speaker 5: wrong word, but certainly the response and the behavior of
Speaker 5: John even after six weeks was quite typically John in
Speaker 5: that he just didn't want to talk about it or
Speaker 5: discuss it, certain not in front of the children, which
Speaker 5: was always the excuse. Not in front of the children,
Speaker 5: but even when the children were not there, he didn't
Speaker 5: want to engage about it. After the initial shock of
Speaker 5: how she apparently left and disappeared, lots of questions came up,
Speaker 5: A lot of questions about how she left, who she
Speaker 5: left with, why John didn't even look out the window.
Speaker 5: It didn't make any sense. Of course, he would have
Speaker 5: John been John. He would have wanted to know exactly
Speaker 5: where she was going, and who she was going with,
Speaker 5: and what she was doing, because that was who he
Speaker 5: was by nature.
Speaker 1: Did Roman tell you in any particularized detail why she
Speaker 1: had finally decided that's it. I'm definitely leaving him over.
Speaker 1: I can't deal with this anymore.
Speaker 5: Headley, This had been coming for a period of time.
Speaker 5: She just needed to have that financial and emotion or strengths.
Speaker 5: Was that the part time job at the takeaway shop.
Speaker 5: I think that started to get her feeling a little
Speaker 5: little bit more financially independent, but also making those connections
Speaker 5: with people that worked at the store with her and
Speaker 5: also potential customers. That job was the catalyst for her
Speaker 5: to start thinking, Okay, I'm starting to get a little
Speaker 5: bit more independence here. I think I can do this.
Speaker 5: A situation that I think had become over the years
Speaker 5: just too controlled. It was too hard.
Speaker 1: In the final months and weeks and days before she disappeared,
Speaker 1: you were having contact with her.
Speaker 5: Regular conversations, but I can only from the conversations we
Speaker 5: had understand that things had escalated and she just couldn't
Speaker 5: cope with the way she was living in that home
Speaker 5: any longer and she had to get out. And he
Speaker 5: wouldn't have liked that she had moved out of the
Speaker 5: marital home. She finally made that decision to leave, which
Speaker 5: was very hard. I mean, she didn't have a lot
Speaker 5: of income. She had managed to create some friendships in
Speaker 5: Lennox Head, which were obviously a wonderful support to her,
Speaker 5: but she was certainly sounding very positive in terms of
Speaker 5: taking that next step away from John and everything that
Speaker 5: that included.
Speaker 1: You also observed his very tight grip on the finances.
Speaker 5: Oh, he'd always been like that since the day ago.
Speaker 5: He was very very conscious of spend and what she
Speaker 5: received in terms of money. It was always just enough.
Speaker 5: But again that was probably all part of the control.
Speaker 5: But as a consequence, naturally she didn't have a lot
Speaker 5: to step away from that home and that marriage and
Speaker 5: go into the townhouse that she did move into. She
Speaker 5: would have been struggling to make it work and make
Speaker 5: ends meet. The excitement soon wore off, I think in
Speaker 5: terms of the financial obligations that go with rent and
Speaker 5: supporting two young children.
Speaker 1: And when she was planning to move back into the
Speaker 1: house on Sandstone Crescent from the Byron Street flat. Were
Speaker 1: you aware of that intention?
Speaker 5: Do you recall John was in Sydney. I don't find
Speaker 5: his response at all surprising in terms of leaving Sydney
Speaker 5: immediate and going straight back up to the home, because
Speaker 5: the home was always such a priority for John in
Speaker 5: terms of financially and building it. I was not surprised
Speaker 5: that he went straight back. I think she knew that
Speaker 5: there was going to be a level of risk that
Speaker 5: his response would be quite extreme. Andrew was quite adamant
Speaker 5: that yes, it was within her rights to move back
Speaker 5: into the home, which he was correct in making that
Speaker 5: sort of summation.
Speaker 1: Part of his guilt is around persuading Roman that she
Speaker 1: was within her rights to go back to the house.
Speaker 1: Why do you feel some guilt?
Speaker 5: But we didn't do more. He didn't go to the
Speaker 5: police because she was coming back. He kept saying she's
Speaker 5: coming back. She never came back. Was it buying time?
Speaker 5: I don't know. Was he getting his thoughts together? Yes,
Speaker 5: I remember with the Petro Street which was just left field.
Speaker 1: He arrived at Andy and Michelle's on the Monday afternoon.
Speaker 5: I remember being in their lounge room. I can recall
Speaker 5: John and the girls being there. It was within the
Speaker 5: first day or two, because I got the call from
Speaker 5: Michelle to say John's here with the girls and Bromin's
Speaker 5: gone away for a week. What things are bad up there?
Speaker 5: But she's gone away, not without the kids. It's very
Speaker 5: hard to know how you respond when somebody one day
Speaker 5: isn't there anymore. I wish that I had gone straight
Speaker 5: up there. I wish that we'd pushed the police to
Speaker 5: do more. It begs believes that they didn't once go
Speaker 5: and look at the car. Absolutely, if I had my
Speaker 5: time again, I would have gone straight up there, one
Speaker 5: hundred percent, without a doubt. I would have literally gone
Speaker 5: straight away. John took a long time to report this,
Speaker 5: Andrew was pushing him to do it again. I think distance,
Speaker 5: the tyranny of distance. We were in Sydney. It all
Speaker 5: happened in Lennox Head and it had already been quite separate.
Speaker 5: John had taken everybody up there and started a new life.
Speaker 5: And yes we'd talked, but no we didn't see them
Speaker 5: as often. No excuses. I mean, I feel guilty now
Speaker 5: you live with the guilt. You live with the guilt
Speaker 5: guilt around not spending more time with those girls. He
Speaker 5: certainly didn't go out of his way to allow them
Speaker 5: to have time with us. His response to the gradual
Speaker 5: discussion and innuendo that there was more to it than
Speaker 5: John was suggesting. So, of course that drover a wedge.
Speaker 5: I probably took the easy road. I decided to leave
Speaker 5: Australia and I moved to the other side of the
Speaker 5: world where nobody knew about it. And in fact, there'll
Speaker 5: be a lot of people that are in my life
Speaker 5: now who will be very, very surprised if I ever
Speaker 5: share this with them. It's something you never get over.
Speaker 5: It's there with you every day you look for faces
Speaker 5: in a crowd, slowly hope faiths. It leaves a big hole.
Speaker 5: Just to hear her voice was a real trigger for me.
Speaker 1: Melissa is recalling episode three. It featured Bromwan in a
Speaker 1: documentary talking about her father Phillip's fight to survive after
Speaker 1: a liver transplant.
Speaker 18: Bronwin, forever optimistic, looks for signs of progress and tries
Speaker 18: to reinforce her father's own will to live, but his
Speaker 18: system is tiring and breaking down.
Speaker 3: And some days if better than others. You know, if
Speaker 3: I think he's responding, sometimes you have link or wink
Speaker 3: or made his head. If I think he's responding, it
Speaker 3: makes me feel a lot better. But all I ever
Speaker 3: telling him is that he's going to get better. This
Speaker 3: sort of thing said, he'd want to hear you know
Speaker 3: that he's leaves functioning kidneys so fine, you know, and
Speaker 3: that his heart's still it's and that he's can kill.
Speaker 18: Two weeks now since the second transplant, and Philip continues
Speaker 18: to hang on to life with the frailess thread.
Speaker 1: He's a good work, isn't he.
Speaker 5: Here's the best best when you haven't heard a voice
Speaker 5: for so long and you hear the voice that almost
Speaker 5: brings it to life again. I think it was really
Speaker 5: hard for Bromin because we lost our father. She was
Speaker 5: very close to our father. He was almost hid you
Speaker 5: north her support. He supported her a lot, and for
Speaker 5: the first time Brobin started to step out alone.
Speaker 1: In Melissa's nineteen ninety eight police statement, she emphasized John's
Speaker 1: possessiveness and what she described back then as his jealousy
Speaker 1: and controlling nature. In the same statement, she recalled that
Speaker 1: Bromwin pleaded with her to come to Lennox, and Melissa
Speaker 1: formed the view that her sister was on a high
Speaker 1: because of her new found freedom. Bromwan told Melissa about
Speaker 1: meeting a man at Eden's Takeaway and of a bottle
Speaker 1: of champagne being left on her doorstep because she had
Speaker 1: been so down, but at the same time, Bromwin appeared
Speaker 1: frightened about being alone. Melissa told Detective Sergeant Glenn Taylor
Speaker 1: that Bromwin had always had what Melissa called a male dependability,
Speaker 1: and sometimes in their telephone chats, Melissa concluded that her
Speaker 1: older sister had been drinking wine, which was very unusual
Speaker 1: for Bromwin, another indication to Melissa of the difficulties being experienced.
Speaker 5: I think it's wonderful what Andrew has done. He has
Speaker 5: been relentless. I admire everything that he's done in his
Speaker 5: efforts to find our sister. When I read a couple
Speaker 5: of messages from members of the family that had tried
Speaker 5: to reach out to encourage me to step forward and
Speaker 5: become involved, it was very hard because the emotions come
Speaker 5: up immediately. So certainly the podcast has been a trigger
Speaker 5: to reflect and think about what could have been what
Speaker 5: could have happened.
Speaker 1: Did it seem to you that when she was living
Speaker 1: in those Byron Street flats and you were talking to
Speaker 1: her during that separation period, that she was wavering or
Speaker 1: do you believe she had made her mind up and
Speaker 1: she was moving on. She definitely wanted to remain separated
Speaker 1: and old Lee to divorce John because.
Speaker 5: She was already talking about somebody else. I'm sure that
Speaker 5: would have been very hard for John to understand there
Speaker 5: was somebody at a party and she'd been talking to
Speaker 5: this person. That would have driven John absolutely perserve to
Speaker 5: think that Bromin was going to move on with somebody new.
Speaker 5: I would say that his world was already rocked by
Speaker 5: the fact that he was being replaced. Yeah, she was.
Speaker 5: She was done with John.
Speaker 1: Bronwyn is written and investigated by me Headley Thomas as
Speaker 1: a podcast production for The Australian. If anyone has information
Speaker 1: which may help solve this cold case, please contact me
Speaker 1: confidentially emailing Bronwyn at the Australian dot com dot au.
Speaker 1: You can read more about this case and see a
Speaker 1: range of photographs and other artwork at the website Bromwyn
Speaker 1: podcast dot com. Our subscribers and registered users here episodes first.
Speaker 1: The production and editorial team for Bromwin includes Claire Harvey,
Speaker 1: Kristin Amiet, Joshua Burton, Bridget, Ryan Bianca, far Marcus, Katie Burns,
Speaker 1: Liam Mendez, Sean Callen and Matthew Condon and David Murray.
Speaker 1: Audio production for this podcast series is by Wasabi Audio
Speaker 1: and original theme music by Slade Gibson. We have been
Speaker 1: assisted by Madison Walsh, a relation of Bromwin Winfield. We
Speaker 1: can only do this kind of journalism with the support
Speaker 1: of our subscribers and our major sponsors like Harvey Norman.
Speaker 1: For all of our exclusive stories, videos, maps, timelines and
Speaker 1: documents about this podcast and other podcasts, including The Teacher's Pet,
Speaker 1: The Teacher's Trial, The Teacher's Accuser, Shandy's Story, Shandy's Legacy,
Speaker 1: and The Night Driver. Go to the Australian dot com
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