WEBVTT - Episode 18: Origin Story 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:04.680 Listeners are advised that this podcast series Bromwan contains course 0:00:04.800 --> 0:00:08.840 language and adult themes. This podcast series is brought to 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:41.879 you by me Headley Thomas and The Australian. We are 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:45.560 close to the end of John's evidence now. The transcript 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:49.640 from that videotaped record of interview is just about concluded. 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:54.240 Since episode fourteen, you have been hearing a reconstruction of 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:57.720 John's side of the story from August nineteen ninety eight, 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:01.320 because that was the only time John has been questioned 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:05.680 on the record by police tasked with investigating Bromlin's disappearance. 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:09.679 Our diversions into aspects of the evidence which have cried 0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:13.440 out for closer scrutiny, like the medicare check, have a 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:18.480 little further to go. Soon you'll hear John's characterization of 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:23.679 Bronlin's mother, Barbara, the grandmother of Crystal and Lauren. This 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:28.440 isn't an easy listen. I'm grateful to Barbara's daughter, Kim Marshall, 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:33.000 and to Maddie Walsh for their help in balancing this. Now, 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:36.800 let's go back to Detective Sergeant Glenn Taylor's interview with 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:40.720 John Winfield in the ballon of Police station. In the 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:44.559 previous episode. You heard John tell the detective that John 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:47.199 believed he would be able to start a new life 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:53.640 without much trouble at all. Therefore, John reasoned, Bronlin could too. 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:56.960 I mean, I know her mother when she went to 0:01:57.040 --> 0:02:01.840 England and disappears be twel years. I know for a 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:05.040 fact that she worked as a prostitute. And she will 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:08.000 tell you that too. She readily admits it. And that's 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:11.880 where this other child came from. Was your wife close 0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:13.320 to your children? 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:14.640 Oh? 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:15.799 I think so? Yeah? 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:19.480 Yeah, well, I mean as close as any mother would be. 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:24.080 I mean, you know, i'd be lying to say that 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:26.880 I didn't think she probably was close. 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:32.280 Yeah. Detective Wayne Tembi asked a question, what's the other 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:36.040 child's name that she had in England? Oh? 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:41.400 The one that's Ilegitimate Kim. She used to live with 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:44.880 their mother in Tasmania. It's all in there. Graham's actually 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:49.960 spoken to her. Actually, I brought her in here. I 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:51.400 brought her in here to see Graham. 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:51.880 One day. 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:57.079 She's been here, Kim, she's been interviewed here with Graham. Yeah, 0:02:57.320 --> 0:02:59.080 because she came up to stay with me for a 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:01.160 couple of weeks to help me look after the kids. 0:03:01.760 --> 0:03:04.280 She came up by bus and she stayed a couple 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:08.600 of weeks and then I brought her in. Ran Graham 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:10.000 up and I brought her in. 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:14.200 Glenn Taylor asked John if there was anything else he 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:16.240 wanted to raise in the interview. 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:20.680 No, just I'd like to reiterate about the media. 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:21.280 That's all. 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:26.160 I'll preclude the interview now at ten sixteen am, and 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:29.120 we will then seal the tapes in your presence and 0:03:29.160 --> 0:03:31.400 you'll be provided with a copy of the tape. 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:35.680 Do you own this format? Yeah? And that's where the 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:40.119 interview ended. On one of our drives to Lennox Head, 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:43.360 Mattie Walsh and I lost our way while sharing ideas 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:47.520 about the case, I've ended up yelling up. 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:48.760 The h the scenic group. 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:51.280 Yeah. Did you notice that. 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:55.120 I have no navigational skills? 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:55.720 Right? 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:56.400 Slack? 0:03:56.680 --> 0:03:58.680 Something called natural splashaw, this is. 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:07.520 Quote pretty, It's good, Glinn. I'm driving down at the moment. 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:11.480 I'm not too far out actually, and I'm with you, Maddie. 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:14.280 Did you try and interview him again after that first 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:16.960 one in ninety eight? Do you remember again? 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:18.120 Think we did? 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:20.720 I don't think we had any more approaches, but we 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:23.560 would have had a couple of phone calls, like if 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:27.040 I made a phone call and say John Winfield was 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:31.360 a computer generated running shoet was called Eagle Eye at 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:35.200 the time, and it was a new system for major incidents, 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:39.640 and I had it on the computer. So everything was 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:43.040 transferred onto that major incident system. 0:04:43.120 --> 0:04:45.920 But whatever happed to it, nail like I got. 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:50.480 We held off for quite some time and his insistence 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:54.800 he didn't want anything going in the media, and then. 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:57.040 He didn't want eating in the papers. He didn't want 0:04:57.080 --> 0:05:00.920 any in the media about her disappearance. We told him 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:03.680 and said, look, it's going in the lead here. So 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:06.800 he was unhappy about it. He was very much against 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:08.719 the medium being involved. 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:12.880 I'm drawing close to the Lennox. Are you around today 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:14.000 or are you out of town? 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:14.680 Oh? 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:17.640 I'm numbering around. So I've just entered the ballot of 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:19.680 shy now and they rode for Byron. 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:21.960 All right, Yeah, there was one thing I wanted to 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:27.960 check though. Do you recall whether John ever filed for 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:30.760 divorce from Broadwind after she went on. 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:32.719 I didn't know that answer. 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:36.560 I certainly don't thinking had or I was not aware of. 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:38.560 It, certainly up to the inquest stage. 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:42.160 I discharged from the police after that, but that inquest 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:45.080 declined her then officially perceased. 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:48.520 Yeah, I suppose he could then go ahead with it, 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:52.359 or he could be still legally married. He's just a widow, 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:53.440 and that's right. 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:57.440 I did some title deed searches as well of the property, 0:05:57.480 --> 0:06:00.520 of saying so crazy, all right, Yeah, it looks like 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:04.640 he sold that in ninety nine, which was interesting timing, 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:07.760 But just your investigations well underway by then. 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:11.440 The property was only in his day. I think you 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:12.520 knew that as well. 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:16.760 He would have gone about saying that she's vacated her 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:23.720 It's just so strong circumstantial case. There's no other reasonable 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:28.840 hypothesis that she's gone out the door that night, leaving 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:31.880 those two kids there, never to return again. Such a 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:36.040 good mother, you just wouldn't leave those kids. Everything tells 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:39.960 you there's been an incident in the home that night, 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:41.880 she's met with foul play. 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:44.200 Just every single thing points to it. 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:47.200 I da't believe for one moment that she made a 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:51.520 phone call and then somebody mysteriously just turns up and 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:54.719 he doesn't even look out the front to investigate who 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:57.160 it is or what cars she's getting him. 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:01.599 You I've wondered whether when you can't discover that Bromwin's 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:06.120 mother had disappeared, whether that had an impact on his thinking. 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:09.960 Shouldn't have, but whether it did. You just have to 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:11.960 do your normal things. 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:15.200 You would do an investigation even if they do turn 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:15.960 up a week. 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:19.680 Later or two weeks later. You should still do these things. 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:23.680 Zam and the scene, zam and the guard document document, 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:27.000 get a version of the person. 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:32.280 Like formerly, any of your statement. None of these things 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:33.560 were done now. 0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:37.360 It's just not good police work at all and certainly 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:40.200 doesn't follow good investigative practices. 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:47.239 Neglect for laziness, however you want to put it before 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:50.440 going further. It is important to deal with the spearing 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:53.600 of a woman who is not around to defend her reputation. 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:59.560 Barbara Read, the mother of Bromwin, Kim and Andy. Barbara 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:03.600 would have turned eighty five this year. She died in 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:07.480 two thousand and six, four years after the then Deputy 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:11.440 State Coroner terminated an inquest and recommended that a murder 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:15.040 charge be leveled against Barbara's son in law, John Winfield. 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:19.640 Among the documents which have survived since the initial police 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:23.280 investigation in nineteen ninety three is a copy of Bromwin's 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:28.640 monthly telephone bill from Byron Street with itemized calls for Sunday, 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:34.160 May nine, it was Mother's Day. Bromwyn called Barbara at 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:37.480 her home in Tasmania, where she was living with Kim Marshall, 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:41.600 Barbara's youngest daughter. There is evidence of a number of 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:45.760 calls between Barbara and Bromwin. It appears they had a 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:51.839 fond relationship despite the separation. In Bromwin's formative years. Bromwyn 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:55.800 and Andy were unaware for much of their childhood of 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:59.640 their mother's existence. They were led to believe that Jennifer, 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:04.160 her father's second wife, was their mother. Kim told me 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:08.559 that her mother, Barbara, became unwell suddenly in two thousand 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:12.400 and six. She had pancreatic cancer and it must have 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:17.440 spread quickly. Kim wrote to me about Barbara's efforts to 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:21.640 see her grandchildren Crystal and Lauren before the cancer claimed her. 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:26.240 I asked Kim to read some of her note. It 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:30.840 describes Barbara's last days in two thousand and six. That 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:35.960 was thirteen years after her daughter vanished. By then, Christel 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:38.560 was twenty three, Lauren was eighteen. 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:44.400 Mum had wanted to travel up several times to Bronnie. However, 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:50.000 it never occurred. On the twenty fourth, we celebrated Ronnie's 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:55.400 birthday on the ward, and after prompting her, Barbie agreed 0:09:55.559 --> 0:10:00.920 to phone Jonathan, hoping to speak to Lauren and if 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:03.680 it would be possible for Lauren to come down to 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:10.040 see her. Unfortunately, Barbie's requests were denied. I recall her 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:14.920 holding herself with dignity, and she did weep. I know 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:19.000 she shed tears that afternoon as I stayed behind that 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:23.520 day and kept an eye over my beautiful mum until 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:27.560 her cares had got her ready for sleep. Her weeping 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:32.440 was silent, and as always, she did not complain nor 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:37.480 let her sadness overtake her. My mother was the most 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:42.679 graceful woman this day. Earlier, we had all cried from 0:10:42.760 --> 0:10:47.600 our disappointments, and Barbie consoled us and guided. 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:52.720 Us to move onwards. She expressed that too much. 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:56.120 Time had passed and that it was probably best to 0:10:56.360 --> 0:10:57.960 just let things be. 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:04.840 Kim Marshall has been an unstintingly loyal daughter. At the 0:11:04.880 --> 0:11:07.560 same time, she is candid about her and her mother, 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:12.000 Barbara's mental health challenges. You'll recall that Kim was born 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:17.160 several years after Barbara's marriage to Philip had collapsed. Barbara 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:21.240 lost their two small children, Bromwin and Andy. At that time, 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:26.720 she must have been inconsolable. She was also mentally fragile. 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:29.800 She stayed out of their lives and left the mother 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:33.959 in to Philip's new wife, Jennifer. You heard Kim describe 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:37.319 her mother's version of some of the events in episode five. 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:42.920 As Brown moved from being a baby to a chiddler, 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:46.880 Philip was not at home as much, and then she 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:51.480 became pregnant with Andrew, and then Mums felt she had 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:52.920 developed postnatal depression. 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:54.120 After having Andrew. 0:11:55.000 --> 0:12:01.000 Mum had multiple crisis situations going on in her life. 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:05.760 That's when her mental health became compromised and she probably 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:10.280 had what they described as a breakdown. The lawyer advised 0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:13.880 that Mum would most likely be judged as an unfit 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:18.600 mother due to the opinions of the Reed family, and 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:23.119 that she perhaps should actually not worry about contesting custody 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:25.960 because it would be a horrible case to have to 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:28.920 go and attend court to go through, and it might 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:32.240 be better if she just looks after her mother and 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:36.760 perhaps go is suggested. On an overseas traveling trip, for 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:40.120 a period of time to recover and recuperate and then 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:44.959 return to Australia and then look at maybe perhaps making 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:49.560 connections with her children and building a new life. So 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:54.000 much pressure in a woman's life, and she thought she 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:58.600 was making a sound decision based on the advice that 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:01.720 she had been given, and the you'd probably say the 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:03.360 lack of support. 0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:08.000 Andy and Kim have read the same transcript of interview 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:11.560 which I've been reproducing in this episode and the previous ones, 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:16.120 the transcript of John Winfield's interview in which certain things 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:19.880 stripped of their context were said about Barbara, their mother. 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:23.920 I can't avoid it, but and you know what he says. 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:29.000 Anything he's actually asked about that night or anything about 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:33.079 Bromwin is very very deflective about. But all of a 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:36.679 sudden his memory is just raise or sharp on all 0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:40.760 sorts of other major issues, including coming up with this 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:44.599 opinion the mum. And here he is just absolutely slandering 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:48.880 someone recorded interview with the police, a bit of the 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:50.319 plot call and the kettle black. 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:50.480 Isn't it? 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:55.559 My mum didn't constitute herself. She was joining what I 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:59.120 would probably say was a feminist women's movement. She even 0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:03.880 made a speech before she got unwell, and she also 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:07.480 spoke about my conception at that introductory night that she 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:10.120 had to stand up in front of everyone, and everyone 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:11.320 stood up and af Florida her. 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:17.440 Unfortunately, Kim does not have the speech. Now, perhaps Barbara 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:22.480 spoke freely without notes, but Barbara's statement to Detective Sergeant 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:28.320 Glenn Taylor has survived. It tells a remarkable story. Before 0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:31.920 publishing it, Maddie and I decided to check to see 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:35.400 whether Kim would be okay about that. We were less 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:39.360 apprehensive about Andy, who usually refers to his biological mother 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:42.760 as Barbara and his stepmother as Mum. 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:46.520 I've had the most brilliant childhood with my mother. We 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:50.080 didn't have a car, we caught fusses, We've got lifts. 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:51.120 She took me to. 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:55.960 Every single athletic event, probably for twenty years, and she 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:58.360 has hit so afit gp disorder. 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:02.920 Your mother as an account in her statement, and she 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:05.000 also talks about your own conception. 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:09.840 My mother being the incredible person that she was, she 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:13.360 told me from the youngest age, I knew where I 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:16.560 came from, why I came about, and I knew the 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:21.280 reason that I was conceived. And I think I wore 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:22.880 that with a badge of honors. 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:25.960 I was what kept her alive. I'd love to have 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:29.280 it heard, because Maddie, I know you're impartial. 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:34.760 The Reed family actually uses the word abandonment. Really, I 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:39.080 said to Headley in the podcast, I wore that because 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:40.720 I have an objective. 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:44.600 I actually have been made to be so quiet and 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:47.440 missy for so long. I just want the truth out so 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:48.880 I can actually let it all go. 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:52.680 It's not my place to get hysterical and upset about 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:58.360 people's past opinions or people's recollections. I want all the truth. 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:03.800 My mum's bought is going to be absolutely amazing. It's 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:07.120 going to help other women. She wanted to publish her 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:11.400 life and her story, and she had started her. 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:15.680 Writing what do you want going forward? For this case? 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:20.280 With what I know now? Pushing the police and staying 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:24.040 in constant contact with the police, my obligation is to 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:46.880 find Roman's body. 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:52.360 Six weeks after sitting down with John in the Ballana 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:57.920 Police station, Detective Wayne Temby flew to Tasmania. This is 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:01.800 what Barbara Read, the mother of Rom, Kim and Andy, 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:04.119 told him in nineteen ninety eight. 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:07.840 My age is fifty nine. I am a single woman. 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:13.280 After Bronwyn was born, I suffered severe postnatal depression. My 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:16.480 husband Philip found out that I was sleeping in until 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:19.400 ten am of a morning, and he and the other 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:21.760 reads did not like the fact that I was doing that, 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:25.480 so they arranged for me to see a psychiatrist. He 0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:27.919 did various tests and it was discovered that I was 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:32.639 suffering from loneliness in which led to depression. Philip was 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:35.160 a real man's man, and he would go to work 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:38.080 through the week and on weekends either play sport or 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:41.080 go to the hotel with his mates, while I stayed 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:44.080 at home and watched bronwyin. I did exactly what doctor 0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:46.679 Lehmann told me to and I became well again. A 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:50.480 short time later, I gave birth to a son named 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:55.000 Andrew Philip. After Andrew's birth, I was still feeling very well, 0:17:55.480 --> 0:17:58.159 although I was feeling a little bit run down and tired. 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:03.719 In November nineteen sixty four, my father passed away, and 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:06.639 I was very devastated because I came to lean on 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:10.840 my father whilst I was ill. Philip was never violent, 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:15.520 but drank alcohol very heavily. At the end of the holidays, 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:18.560 I returned to Wollongong with my mother and went to 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:21.760 our house and there was no one home. I tried 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:24.480 to get in and all the locks were changed. I 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:27.600 then went to his parents' house at Ferry Meadow and 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:31.200 Philip and Bronwyn and Andrew were there. At this time, 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:35.200 Bronwyn was three years old and Andrew was five months old. 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:38.919 I spoke to Philip and he told me that he 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:41.760 wasn't letting me into the home and that our marriage 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:45.640 was over. His father told me that he would ring 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:48.240 up a motel for me to stay in the night, 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:51.120 and that I couldn't stay at their house or at 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:54.520 my own home either. Mum and I stayed at the 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:57.880 motel that night and headed for Sydney the next day. 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:02.480 The legal proceedings then commenced in relation to custody of 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:05.560 the children and the divorce. They told me that I 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:07.879 would not stand a chance in a court because of 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:10.439 my illness, and they were claiming that I was an 0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:14.720 unfit mother. My solicitor told me that I may get custody, 0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:17.439 but I knew what my mental state of mind was 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:20.880 at the time, because it had deteriorated very quickly over 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:24.280 the four weeks since Philip left me. I was well 0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:26.480 aware that I was in no condition to look after 0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:30.000 the children by myself, and my mother, who was sixty 0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:32.240 four at the time, was too old to look after 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:36.000 two small children. My mother decided that we should go 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:39.320 overseas in an attempt to brighten me up and get 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:42.560 me out of this deep depression I was in. Just 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:46.000 prior to leaving to go overseas, I took an overdose 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:49.760 of nembutale and nearly died, ending up in the intensive 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:54.320 care unit of Monaval Hospital. Shortly afterwards, Philip sold our 0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:58.000 house and forwarded me some money from the sale. He 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:01.160 wanted to give me two thousand pound, but Iony asked 0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:04.200 for a thousand pound and requested that the other thousand 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:08.520 pound be given to the children. In February nineteen sixty five, 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:11.359 my mother and I went overseas to the United Kingdom. 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:15.119 We traveled through Europe and then back to the United Kingdom, 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:17.200 where I lived on the money that Philip had forwarded 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:20.320 me from the sale of the house, and I remained 0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:22.840 working as a nanny in London for a further two years. 0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:26.879 During this period, my illness improved rapidly because of the 0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:29.320 assistance I was given from the family who employed me. 0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:32.920 I returned to Australia to my mother, who had moved 0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:36.480 to Tasmania. I stayed in Tasmania for a little while 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:40.720 and attempted to take up nursing again. I saw numerous 0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:43.920 doctors during this period, and I was discharged after being 0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:45.480 diagnosed with schizophrenia. 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:48.040 I then went to Sydney and. 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:51.000 I decided that I wanted to have another child because 0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:55.119 I was unable to see my other two children. I 0:20:55.160 --> 0:20:59.240 went to King's Cross and walked the street, and over 0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:03.879 a period of three nights and four days, during the 0:21:03.880 --> 0:21:08.160 middle of my menstrual cycle, I had intercourse with eight 0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:13.439 different men who were all of European blood. I wanted 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:18.040 a child with European blood, so I picked three Italians, 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:26.000 one Yugoslavian, one Hungarian, one Englishman, an Australian, and one 0:21:26.040 --> 0:21:31.240 American from the streets around King's Cross. Shortly afterwards, I 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:34.920 discovered I was pregnant, but I do not know which 0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:38.320 one was the father. I later returned to my mother's 0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:41.920 place in Tasmania, and my mother, who was old fashioned, 0:21:42.280 --> 0:21:44.360 was a little bit of shamed that I had decided 0:21:44.359 --> 0:21:47.520 to have an illegitimate child. I then went to a 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:51.520 friend's house at Melbourne and my daughter, Kim Marie, was 0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:55.880 born in the nineteenth of November nineteen seventy one. After 0:21:55.960 --> 0:21:58.360 Kim was born, my mother had forgiven me. 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:00.480 One PM. 0:22:00.560 --> 0:22:03.840 One evening in nineteen seventy five, I received a phone 0:22:03.840 --> 0:22:07.160 call at home from my ex husband Philip. He told 0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:09.960 me that my children wished to see me. I was 0:22:10.080 --> 0:22:13.120 thrilled because I had not seen them since nineteen sixty four. 0:22:13.960 --> 0:22:16.800 Kim was four years old at the time, and I've 0:22:16.960 --> 0:22:19.080 organized to fly both of us to Sydney and we 0:22:19.200 --> 0:22:22.760 booked into the Wentworth Hotel. Philip told me that the 0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:25.560 children could stay over the weekend and he would pay 0:22:25.600 --> 0:22:29.760 for the room alongside mine. We had a wonderful reunion 0:22:29.840 --> 0:22:33.520 and we've kept in constant contact ever since. I've been 0:22:33.560 --> 0:22:36.720 to Bronwyn's first wedding, and Andrew's wedding, and all the 0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:40.600 grandchildren's christenings. Ever since, I go to Sydney and stay 0:22:40.600 --> 0:22:43.520 with Andrew and his wife Michelle on a regular basis. 0:22:44.000 --> 0:22:47.280 Bronwyn married a man by the name of John Winfield 0:22:48.080 --> 0:22:52.239 in a quiet ceremony in either Sydney or Ballina. I 0:22:52.240 --> 0:22:53.760 didn't even know that they got married. 0:22:54.600 --> 0:22:55.280 I was aware that. 0:22:55.240 --> 0:22:57.639 In nineteen ninety they'd moved to Lennox Head on the 0:22:57.680 --> 0:23:01.959 north coast of New South Wales. In January nineteen ninety 0:23:02.560 --> 0:23:05.399 Andrew married Michelle in Sydney and I went over for 0:23:05.440 --> 0:23:08.840 the wedding and I saw Bronwyn there. I hadn't spoken 0:23:08.880 --> 0:23:11.240 to Bromwin for a long time, and my mother told 0:23:11.280 --> 0:23:14.840 Bromwin that she was wrong for not contacting me. Brown 0:23:14.920 --> 0:23:17.040 told my mother that she would keep in contact in 0:23:17.080 --> 0:23:20.359 the future, and she did from then on. At the 0:23:20.440 --> 0:23:23.400 beginning of nineteen ninety three, I received a telephone call 0:23:23.440 --> 0:23:26.480 from Bronwyn and she told me that she was very 0:23:26.600 --> 0:23:29.399 unhappy living with John and that she was of the 0:23:29.400 --> 0:23:32.679 opinion that John was having an affair. I asked her 0:23:32.680 --> 0:23:34.680 if she wanted me to fly over and help her, 0:23:35.080 --> 0:23:36.880 and she told me that things would be all right 0:23:37.200 --> 0:23:39.720 and that she could cope. She told me not to 0:23:39.760 --> 0:23:43.000 worry and said that she would battle on. A couple 0:23:43.040 --> 0:23:46.000 of weeks later, I received a telephone call from Bronwyn 0:23:46.400 --> 0:23:48.320 and she asked me if I could see my mother 0:23:48.480 --> 0:23:51.000 and ask her for a loan of one thousand dollars. 0:23:51.480 --> 0:23:53.440 She told me that she wanted to move into a 0:23:53.560 --> 0:23:56.159 unit with the two children so that they could be 0:23:56.200 --> 0:24:00.600 away from John. I begged my mother, but she declined. 0:24:01.640 --> 0:24:04.880 I got another phone call shortly afterwards, and she told 0:24:04.880 --> 0:24:06.800 me that John was going to give her the thousand 0:24:06.800 --> 0:24:10.560 dollars and that she was moving. She told me not 0:24:10.640 --> 0:24:13.280 to worry, and that she would keep in touch and 0:24:13.359 --> 0:24:15.399 let me know how she was going and where she 0:24:15.480 --> 0:24:20.040 was living. On Mother's Day in nineteen ninety three, Bronwin 0:24:20.119 --> 0:24:22.199 rang me and told me that she was living in 0:24:22.240 --> 0:24:25.520 a flat and she had the two girls, Cristel and Lauren, 0:24:25.640 --> 0:24:29.919 with her. She supplied the address and telephone number, and 0:24:30.000 --> 0:24:33.440 she appeared to be in reasonably good spirits. She did 0:24:33.600 --> 0:24:39.719 sound happy and very confident. About one week later, Bromwin 0:24:39.800 --> 0:24:42.320 again rang me and told me that she was returning 0:24:42.359 --> 0:24:45.120 to the house and that John was going to move out. 0:24:46.280 --> 0:24:48.520 She told me that she would finally be rid of him, 0:24:48.680 --> 0:24:51.880