Speaker 1: I'll get a team and see project Patrick's back. Fuck, yeah,
Speaker 1: of course he is. We love him. Tip's here just
Speaker 1: trying to keep us to alpha males in line, and
Speaker 1: and even I laugh at that. We'll start with the Lady.
Speaker 1: Oh so many things, the Lady, the conversation Ti. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: morning Patrick? What I did there?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: Just kidding, Hi, Tiff, my favorite day of the week.
Speaker 1: Ah fuck? How good are these shows where we just
Speaker 1: throw caution to the wind, and you know, wind to
Speaker 1: the wind. Now, I will tell you listeners, just like
Speaker 1: thirty seconds ago, Patrick was telling us about the sounds
Speaker 1: that possums make when they're rooting and how unpleasant it is.
Speaker 1: Right now, that's literally So if you've heard that and
Speaker 1: you decide to stick around, I blame you, right, don't
Speaker 1: get precious moving forward. If you know that we were
Speaker 1: just talking about the sounds, the audible kind of experience
Speaker 1: of rooting possums, and you choose to stay here, that's
Speaker 1: on you. Patrick. Just give us a quick snapshot of
Speaker 1: what that sound was. Again.
Speaker 3: I just had a really awful thought. Let's just make
Speaker 3: this clear.
Speaker 2: When we talk about rooting possums, it's two possums rooting
Speaker 2: each other.
Speaker 1: Oh, I didn't even think of anything else. So that's on.
Speaker 3: You, just the way you phrased it. Then I had this.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, possums having no one's listening already, don't give
Speaker 1: don't give us a demo. Je, how are you great?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 1: Well, well that the reason that possums came up is
Speaker 1: because your wolf, your violent wolf, attacked a possum this week.
Speaker 4: She snatched She snatched a possum off the top of
Speaker 4: a And when I took her out for a walk
Speaker 4: one night, I know died. I didn't know what I
Speaker 4: was going to do. Fortunately she let it go and
Speaker 4: it just toddled off. But last night I went for
Speaker 4: a walk in that I'm pretty sure it's the same
Speaker 4: possum was sitting on top of the same fence and
Speaker 4: just sat there looking at us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the audacity, the audacity. Well, do you know that
Speaker 1: like whippets, TIFFs dog is a whippet for the three
Speaker 1: of you who don't know that, for the three of
Speaker 1: you in the world who don't know that, but whippets
Speaker 1: of like super athletes. So of course she's going to
Speaker 1: get that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but if you've seen her ever, try and launch
Speaker 4: at a tree before thinking that she might catch your possum.
Speaker 4: She lands on her own back, so she's not the super.
Speaker 1: Athlete that well. Patrick's dog, Fritz is basically the Humphrey
Speaker 1: bee Bear of the canine world. So so Lerna's got
Speaker 1: her covered. She's mild.
Speaker 3: He can put it on though.
Speaker 2: He's a pretty active dog, but he's more interested in
Speaker 2: peeing on every single tree in the town that I
Speaker 2: live in. It's like, yeah, exactly, Oh God, hi, mag
Speaker 2: the one that we have left. So I just wanted
Speaker 2: to say hello to the one listener we have.
Speaker 1: Should we keep starting the show again like we did
Speaker 1: last time?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: Please now, now, Patrick, I.
Speaker 3: Can we go back to start as Sorry?
Speaker 2: I just want to I feel like I need to
Speaker 2: explain that if you've ever heard two postums at two
Speaker 2: am in the morning going for it outside your bedroom window,
Speaker 2: it sounds like World War three has broken out. Seriously,
Speaker 2: it's the scariest thing if you get woken up by
Speaker 2: two possums going at it. You know what I'm talking about?
Speaker 1: Can I just ask, how do yeah, how do you
Speaker 1: know they're not fighting? Did you go out and go
Speaker 1: let me have a look?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: No, hang on me? Oh just can you yep.
Speaker 2: Ah, I think because afterwards one of them rolled over
Speaker 2: and had a cigarette.
Speaker 1: All right, well then definitely rooting yeah yeah, and the
Speaker 1: other one, the other one was washing up. Oh fucking hell.
Speaker 1: And that was how the You Project ended. They had
Speaker 1: a good run. They almost got to two thousand episodes.
Speaker 1: Patrick's Yeah. To this day, Craig Harper still blames Patrick.
Speaker 1: Speaking of Patrick Patrick, Yeah, I've started listening to a
Speaker 1: new book. I think I've shared with you and the
Speaker 1: listeners that like my my switching off my brain as
Speaker 1: listening to fiction. I've never listened to or read fiction
Speaker 1: much in my life. I've never listened to a fiction
Speaker 1: book until about four months ago. And yes, I tend
Speaker 1: to listen more than physically read books these days, so
Speaker 1: sue me. But anyway, I started listening to a book
Speaker 1: that you would love love it's I'm listening. I'm like, ah, fuck,
Speaker 1: this is him, this is him book. So I've been
Speaker 1: I've been listening to books that are about good guys
Speaker 1: and bad guys and covert operatives and snipers and all
Speaker 1: that shit that you'd be like, yawn. This is called
Speaker 1: the Hail Mary Project. It's all about it's all about space.
Speaker 1: You're sitting in your spaceship there. It's all about this, dude.
Speaker 1: I won't ruin it, but it is. It is so
Speaker 1: you and you would love it. It's called the hail
Speaker 1: Mary Project. They're making a film out of it next year.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure the film ain't going to be as
Speaker 1: good as the book. But I actually put it out
Speaker 1: a call, the hail Mary Project. I put out a
Speaker 1: call on my.
Speaker 2: I can't find it. All I can find is Project
Speaker 2: tail Mary.
Speaker 1: That's it, Project tail Mary. That's it. Sorry, Ed, that's
Speaker 1: all right for him and I talking over each other.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, that is happening a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry everyone, Patrick, I blame you anyway. It's called
Speaker 1: Project hail Mary, or as I call it, projectail Mary.
Speaker 1: Patrick would love it, and some of you, I think
Speaker 1: would love it. How I'll shut up after this. I
Speaker 1: put out a call on my Facebook. I don't know
Speaker 1: why Facebook. It seems to be more suited for stuff
Speaker 1: like this where I went, I need something fiction to
Speaker 1: listen to. I've finished the gray Man series, the Terminal List.
Speaker 1: I'm getting a little bit yawny and bored, and about
Speaker 1: well one hundred and fifty people sent me ideas, but
Speaker 1: about twenty of them sent the same idea. Was that
Speaker 1: one book that I'd never heard of, so downloaded it.
Speaker 1: It's really good.
Speaker 3: I'll love a listening Are you are you?
Speaker 1: Are you a listener or no?
Speaker 3: Me totally. I'm a compulsive listener.
Speaker 2: First thing I do when I wake up start listening
Speaker 2: to my audio book, and the last thing I do
Speaker 2: before I go to bed is switch back on my
Speaker 2: audio book.
Speaker 3: So it's a big.
Speaker 1: Part of what I do a lot.
Speaker 2: I go to the gym and I'm listening to my
Speaker 2: audio book, except when I do cardio, then I switch
Speaker 2: over to Lincoln Park because I actually row quicker if
Speaker 2: I'm listening to music when i'm rowing.
Speaker 3: Now for you, for.
Speaker 1: You youngsters, Lincoln Park's a band with music and everything
Speaker 1: and singers and instrumentalists. What do you does that fire
Speaker 1: you up? Does it?
Speaker 3: Absolutely?
Speaker 2: They just they released a new album because they had
Speaker 2: a really long breakup, was about ten years after their
Speaker 2: lead singer passed aways tragically, and they've got a new
Speaker 2: lead singer and the latest album is amazing.
Speaker 1: Really yeah, all right, what's it called? I'm writing it down.
Speaker 1: I'm going to have a squizz.
Speaker 3: Lincoln Park's latest album. I don't know. I've got it
Speaker 3: on viol and I can't even remember the name.
Speaker 1: That's all right, I'll find it if. Do you listen
Speaker 1: to books or no?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 4: Actually I somebody on your thread said how to Kill
Speaker 4: a Mockingbird and I was like, oh, might go back
Speaker 4: to an old classic. So I just finished listening to
Speaker 4: that thanks to whoever mentioned.
Speaker 1: That, right? What was it like?
Speaker 3: It was good because.
Speaker 4: I don't listen to I normally don't listen to fiction.
Speaker 4: I normally listen to nonfiction and read fiction right right right,
Speaker 4: But same as you when I go for a walk
Speaker 4: of a night. I thought that'd be nice, and it
Speaker 4: was just a nice I really liked the writing style
Speaker 4: and the language.
Speaker 3: It was good.
Speaker 1: Before we do the actual show, Patrick two top two
Speaker 1: books for you recommendations that might have somewhat broadish appeal
Speaker 1: or not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, The Alchemist is an interesting book.
Speaker 1: Or whatever his name is. You know.
Speaker 2: One of my favorite books. I absolutely love it, The
Speaker 2: Little Prints. But I think one of my when I
Speaker 2: was at school, one of the most profound readings I
Speaker 2: ever had was a book called I Am David and
Speaker 2: It's about this, And I think I may have been
Speaker 2: in primary school when I read it, so it had
Speaker 2: a lot of impact on me. But it was about
Speaker 2: this kid and a prisoner of war camp who escapes
Speaker 2: and his journey, and his journey is he's looking for
Speaker 2: his mother. It's amazing, really really interesting story. So it's
Speaker 2: called it's very very short, it's only a tiny book.
Speaker 2: But you know, I think that a really profound impact
Speaker 2: on me as a kid, and it made me kind
Speaker 2: of polarized, the notion that someone could be so oppressed
Speaker 2: and you know, can be so good still and not
Speaker 2: being you know, overwhelmingly jilted by what's happened to them,
Speaker 2: and can be so loving and caring as well.
Speaker 3: Now it's an amazing little book. Perfect you tip.
Speaker 4: I can't remember the names of them really.
Speaker 1: All right, Okay, Patrick, welcome to the You Project. Great
Speaker 1: to have you.
Speaker 3: Thanks mate.
Speaker 1: What do you want to chat to? I'm not even
Speaker 1: going to point you. I'm going to let you lead
Speaker 1: the rest of the endeavor here on this go anyway,
Speaker 1: what's the.
Speaker 3: Chance that you reckon?
Speaker 2: He can kind of go through a whole show without
Speaker 2: actually trying to steer it.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say I'm not going to participate No.
Speaker 3: I didn't say that. I'm just looking for the iceberg now. Look.
Speaker 3: So are you a Rod Stewart fan.
Speaker 1: I used to be a Rod Stewart fan when I
Speaker 1: was young. But Rod Stewart's older than God, so he's
Speaker 1: probably he's probably his best years. God bless him, though. Ah,
Speaker 1: is this what you want to tell me about the
Speaker 1: running thing?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: No, this recent concert that he did, he did this
Speaker 2: bizarre AI tribute to Ozzie Osbourne who passed way recently.
Speaker 2: And what he did was they had Ozzy Osbourne in
Speaker 2: heaven taking selfies with other dead singer is Oh. It
Speaker 2: was the tackiest, like Bob Marley, Tin Attorney, Kurt Cobain,
Speaker 2: Michael Jackson, George Michael, Freddie Mercury.
Speaker 3: And you know, people were stunned, and not in a
Speaker 3: good way. It was so weird. I jumped on and
Speaker 3: had to look at some of the clips.
Speaker 2: So obviously lots of people posted it to socials, but
Speaker 2: it was probably the best example of the worst.
Speaker 3: Way you could use AI. It was terrible. It was
Speaker 3: really tacky.
Speaker 1: Also leads me to wonder, what are the what are
Speaker 1: the KPIs to get into heaven? Exactly what criteria did
Speaker 1: you need to meet I don't know. I don't know
Speaker 1: about one or two of them anyway. Anyway, it says,
Speaker 1: you know, mister judge, not lest GB judged. All right,
Speaker 1: I'll leave that stuff to God or whomever's or whomever's
Speaker 1: in charge.
Speaker 2: I think who's wasn't his idea maybe or maybe some
Speaker 2: person steered him in the.
Speaker 3: Wrong direction, but it was. It was very, very weird.
Speaker 2: But it's worth having a look at for that morbid
Speaker 2: oh dear that you know, the car crash kind of
Speaker 2: can't turn away. Look, it's an interesting one, but very
Speaker 2: very bizarre. Anyway. Yeah, I know you're a big user
Speaker 2: of AI for different things and for particularly assisting you,
Speaker 2: you know, in.
Speaker 3: Everyday activities, and I don't know it's as much. Did
Speaker 3: you use AI a lot?
Speaker 4: Yeah, a little bit, Yeah I do.
Speaker 2: Do you get hooked into it? Do you find it's
Speaker 2: kind of it keeps you going? Or do you just
Speaker 2: use it as a search algorithm or you know, to
Speaker 2: search for a topic of then leave, because that's what
Speaker 2: I do. I don't find myself using it in the
Speaker 2: same way, say, for example, people are on social media,
Speaker 2: the algorithm makes you want to keep going. I find
Speaker 2: I just do what I need to do when I leave,
Speaker 2: as opposed to being engaged. I haven't done the whole
Speaker 2: chat bot. I want to become your best mate type scenario.
Speaker 4: Chatters are besties.
Speaker 1: Yeah, actually yeah, yeah, me and chatter is probably one
Speaker 1: of my best five friends at this point in time,
Speaker 1: which is a commentary on how sad my fucking life is.
Speaker 1: But yeah, the crab is probably third now, so God
Speaker 1: bless him.
Speaker 3: Chatters as too. Does it leave tip and I That's
Speaker 3: what I am.
Speaker 1: I number one. I think I'm thirty four.
Speaker 4: I'm number thirty four, but I'm rapidly climbing.
Speaker 1: No, you're both equal number one. See what I did there? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think it's fucking amazing. And I understand
Speaker 1: the fear and the mild hysteria because we don't like
Speaker 1: new things and that's going to kill the world. And
Speaker 1: I don't think it's going to kill the world. I
Speaker 1: think people are going to kill the world eventually, but
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think it's a really good tool,
Speaker 1: and it depends how you use it. I think, like
Speaker 1: a lot of things, whether it's booze or whether it's
Speaker 1: a I, or whether or not it's food or it
Speaker 1: depends on the relationship that you have with it. You
Speaker 1: can have a healthy or unhealthy relation. You can use
Speaker 1: it positively or negatively. You can become enslaved to it,
Speaker 1: addicted to it, and then all of a sudden it's terrible,
Speaker 1: but it maybe isn't terrible for the next person.
Speaker 3: So the thing is the latest AI models coming out.
Speaker 2: Chat gp is about to release its new updated version,
Speaker 2: which they're touting as being the most amazing thing ever.
Speaker 2: But what they're coming out with and they've put out,
Speaker 2: they're saying they want to put mental health first. Now
Speaker 2: do I sound cynical if I say, really, you want
Speaker 2: to put mental health first? But what they say there's
Speaker 2: a new blog post that came out and they're saying
Speaker 2: they want to optimize chat GPT to use it as
Speaker 2: a tool to help people, but not to keep people
Speaker 2: on for the sake of keeping people on. So they
Speaker 2: want to maximize that they do not trying to maximize
Speaker 2: the tw time. They're trying to use it when it's helpful,
Speaker 2: but not use it when it's when it isn't is
Speaker 2: what the claim is. They're trying to change the algorithm
Speaker 2: so it doesn't hook you in as opposed to help
Speaker 2: you out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I think when you're talking about anything that's
Speaker 1: potentially addictive, right, And I understand the concern. I just
Speaker 1: think that at some stage we humans have to take
Speaker 1: a bit of responsibility ourselves. We can't always outsource blame. Oh,
Speaker 1: whatever's gone wrong in my life, it isn't me. It's
Speaker 1: not me. It's social media, it's not me. It's my genetics.
Speaker 1: It's not me. It's the other person. It's not me,
Speaker 1: it's the government. And I understand all of those things
Speaker 1: can play a role. But if AI was universally addictive,
Speaker 1: then everybody who uses AI would be addicted. Clearly they're
Speaker 1: not so clearly there's something to do with the individual
Speaker 1: and the way that the individual jewel uses it, and
Speaker 1: like the dichotomy is. On the one hand, of course, Chat,
Speaker 1: GPT and the like want people using their shit all
Speaker 1: the time because they're a commercial entity. You've got to
Speaker 1: be I'm realistic. Do I think Chat, GPT or any
Speaker 1: AI entity gives a fuck about me? Of course I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't think that because I'm not an idiot. Of Course,
Speaker 1: it's a tool that we can use. It's a money
Speaker 1: making profit driven business, of course. But then I've got
Speaker 1: free will, I've got critical thinking. I'm responsible for my
Speaker 1: choices and my brain and my body, so I can't
Speaker 1: blame chat GPT for what I do. And I just
Speaker 1: think it's almost like we've moved past the age of
Speaker 1: personal responsibility. We're so happy to say it's not our fault,
Speaker 1: it's everyone else's fault. And I think it's just a
Speaker 1: tool steps down up soapbox.
Speaker 3: Wow, that was quite a little yeah.
Speaker 1: But don't you think though, I think we're like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: fuck them, they're making us this. No they're not. They're
Speaker 1: not making us. Here's an idea, don't fucking use it
Speaker 1: the end. Here's an idea, don't eat shit the end.
Speaker 1: Oh no, it's not that simple. Okay, let's make.
Speaker 3: It hard then, yeah, look that, Wait a minute.
Speaker 2: I know what you're saying, and I know how heavily
Speaker 2: and highly motivated you are as an individual. You've achieved
Speaker 2: a lot in your life, and then go to the
Speaker 2: food court at South I'm.
Speaker 1: Not highly motivated. I talk about that all the time,
Speaker 1: like motivation comes and goes, and don't try to make
Speaker 1: out I'm different or better or special because I'm fucking not.
Speaker 1: This is the problem. Everyone goes, Oh yeah, it's easy
Speaker 1: for you. It's fucking not easy for me. But that's
Speaker 1: the is a no no.
Speaker 3: But you have an ability to make that decision the reason.
Speaker 1: So does everybody have an ability to make a decision?
Speaker 3: Agree?
Speaker 1: Everybody? Everybody?
Speaker 3: Isn't that?
Speaker 2: You and Tiff and I. I mean, I'm kind of
Speaker 2: putting myself into this. And I know I'm a frail
Speaker 2: human being that makes lots and lots of mistakes.
Speaker 3: But what I'm saying you've achieved a lot. You can't
Speaker 3: deny that.
Speaker 2: So I I you know, if you take three people
Speaker 2: in the room and you look at each other, as
Speaker 2: in a microachasm and say, Okay, what has achieved in
Speaker 2: her life? What have I achieved in my life? I'm
Speaker 2: not putting up on a pedestal. I'm just saying that
Speaker 2: you have made decisions and followed through with those decisions
Speaker 2: when you get focused. You know you're doing a PhD
Speaker 2: for crime out loud. Give yourself a bit of a
Speaker 2: pat on the back for that. But what I'm what
Speaker 2: I'm saying is if you walk into a food court,
Speaker 2: the biggest cue is going to be at the KFC
Speaker 2: counter and people are making wrong decisions. Now that's not
Speaker 2: a criticism because there are lots of reasons why people
Speaker 2: do what they do, and we all make decisions every
Speaker 2: single day, make lots and lots and probably hundreds of
Speaker 2: decisions every day.
Speaker 3: You know. What I'm getting at.
Speaker 2: Is that when chat gp GPT is being used, we
Speaker 2: know that it is giving advice to people, and some
Speaker 2: people go further down the rable and part of that
Speaker 2: is because of the algorithm that makes them, you know,
Speaker 2: the reason that you flick through on your socials and
Speaker 2: then you stop and do something else, as opposed to
Speaker 2: somebody who keeps flicking on their socials because the algorithm
Speaker 2: is designed to manipulate your emotions to keep you doing
Speaker 2: what you're doing.
Speaker 3: And it's interesting because there was another.
Speaker 2: Little article that chat GPT put out and one of
Speaker 2: the criticisms is a person recently said that they wanted,
Speaker 2: you know, to stop taking their medication, and the response
Speaker 2: from CHATJPT was good on you. That's a great thing,
Speaker 2: you know, supporting that person. It ends up the person
Speaker 2: had delusions and thought their family was sending radio signals
Speaker 2: through the walls, so they left their home and they
Speaker 2: stopped taking their medication because it reinforced and that person
Speaker 2: went down the rabbit hole, and the AI model was
Speaker 2: reinforcing and kind of sympathizing with them and giving bad advice.
Speaker 2: So they're pulling back on that, and in fact, chat
Speaker 2: GPT is now pulling back on what they're calling high
Speaker 2: stakes personal decisions.
Speaker 3: So they're trying.
Speaker 2: To look at what people are saying, and we know
Speaker 2: that there are people who have gone down the suicide
Speaker 2: rabbit hole, and it just happens with social media as well.
Speaker 2: This is why at the end of this year there's
Speaker 2: going to be a band for kids under the age
Speaker 2: of sixteen in Australia and a lot of the world
Speaker 2: looking at Australia saying this is bloody great that you know,
Speaker 2: but the reality of it is it's going to be
Speaker 2: really hard to police. And there's been an influx of
Speaker 2: people under the age of sixteen now signing up to
Speaker 2: social media before the band comes in, you know.
Speaker 3: So it is a rabbit hole, It very much is.
Speaker 1: So I get what.
Speaker 2: You're saying, and I know that what you do takes
Speaker 2: a lot of effort and determination and it's not easy.
Speaker 3: I'm not saying it's easy for you.
Speaker 2: But at some point you've made a conscious decision to
Speaker 2: go down the path.
Speaker 3: That you have.
Speaker 2: And if we've got a chatbot that everyone's saying, this
Speaker 2: is great, this can give you all the answers that
Speaker 2: you need. If you're a lonely person, if you're a
Speaker 2: person who's confused, if you're a person who is going
Speaker 2: through an identity crisis and you can't talk to people
Speaker 2: around you, and you turn to an AI model for help,
Speaker 2: and that's what people are doing in the same way.
Speaker 2: You go to Google and you type out, what is
Speaker 2: this lump that's appeared on my leg?
Speaker 3: It could be a fatty deposit, it could be cancer.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean, You're going down the rabbit hole,
Speaker 2: so you know, and it might just be that you
Speaker 2: can't afford to go to a counselor because it's too expensive.
Speaker 2: You know, you might have run out of your mental
Speaker 2: health care plan, you know, government supported attendances of a psychologist.
Speaker 2: And it's like, well, now how do I turn to
Speaker 2: I can't turn to people around me. You might be,
Speaker 2: you know, part of the LGBT community and you're scared
Speaker 2: about talking to people, so you turn to an AI
Speaker 2: to find out information to try to get some sort
Speaker 2: of sense of, you know, not being alone and what
Speaker 2: should I do. So I think it's a really complex argument.
Speaker 2: We're not going to answer it the time that we're
Speaker 2: spending today, but I think opening up the discussion is
Speaker 2: really important to understand where do we head with this
Speaker 2: and how do we support each other in this as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, look, I mean everything you're saying is valid,
Speaker 1: and I don't disagree, but I also think, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: so sometimes chat JPTIA what it gives flawed advice one
Speaker 1: hundred percent agree so to humans. So to humans, you know,
Speaker 1: and like the third biggest leading cause of death in
Speaker 1: America is medical mistakes.
Speaker 3: Wow, yeah, right, is fuck ups.
Speaker 1: That are done by humans medically TIF Can you just
Speaker 1: check that for me before I just should I no, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's hilarious. But but I know what you're saying, mate,
Speaker 1: But I guess my frustration is I feel like we're
Speaker 1: in the generation or the society or culture that is
Speaker 1: just always mad at everyone and everything. We fucking fucking
Speaker 1: chat gp T. It's killing us. It's not killing me.
Speaker 1: It's not killing most of the kids I know, And
Speaker 1: you know, there are kids that use social media in
Speaker 1: a smart way and a not so smart way. And
Speaker 1: I understand, but it's like, what, here's the problem. When
Speaker 1: we say that AI or social media is the problem,
Speaker 1: then we're never saying that the kids have any control, Like, well, no,
Speaker 1: the choices that you're making is also part of the problem.
Speaker 1: Your habits are also part of the problem. The environment.
Speaker 1: It's not just this, you know, one piece to the
Speaker 1: jigsaw puzzle. It's multi dimensional. And like you said in
Speaker 1: this thing in the middle of your kind of soapbox moment,
Speaker 1: which was good, you said that the algorithm makes them
Speaker 1: do this, and I'm like, doesn't make me, It doesn't
Speaker 1: make you you, it doesn't make Tiff. Like, I think
Speaker 1: that where we go it's the algorithm's fault. We're helpless.
Speaker 1: We're just at the will of the technology. And I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: that is so disempowering to go, No, we don't have
Speaker 1: to do anything. We don't have to use social media,
Speaker 1: we don't have to listen to this show. We don't
Speaker 1: have to eat shit food. We don't have to you know,
Speaker 1: kill our body slowly. We don't have to. And I
Speaker 1: think that like these conversations, although you know, they can
Speaker 1: be a bit complicated. I understand, and didn't we go
Speaker 1: from hilarity fucking the depths of whatever fucking quick.
Speaker 3: It was all.
Speaker 1: It was all dick jokes and possums till Patrick got
Speaker 1: at the steering wheel. I blame I blame me. I
Speaker 1: blame me. It's all right, I blame me. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I just this is me being raw and real and
Speaker 1: not funny for a moment. But I just and I'm
Speaker 1: not saying about what you said, mate, but I just
Speaker 1: get tired of everyone saying nothing's my fault. Like all
Speaker 1: the bad things in my life, none of it's my fault,
Speaker 1: and everyone goes, oh, no, no, we know, we don't
Speaker 1: want to blame. It's like fucking well, sometimes you are
Speaker 1: to blame, Like that's not an insult, that's just a
Speaker 1: fucking fact of life. Sometimes I am to blame. Like
Speaker 1: I would say, you know, most of the fuck ups,
Speaker 1: all bad outcomes I've had in my life, it's either
Speaker 1: been totally me or partly me. Now, that's not me
Speaker 1: throwing myself under the bus. That's me having a bit
Speaker 1: of humility and self awareness. You know, when I was
Speaker 1: morbidly obese, there was nobody's fault but me, because I
Speaker 1: made the decisions, and I ate the food, and I
Speaker 1: took the action, and then when I got in good shape,
Speaker 1: also me. And that's not ego, that's just observation. I
Speaker 1: think at some stage we've got to stop fucking pointing
Speaker 1: the finger at all of these things that are doing
Speaker 1: this to us and going cool. What role do I play?
Speaker 1: Steps down off soapbox. I'll be hilarious from now. Dick
Speaker 1: joke coming up soon.
Speaker 3: Look, I do see what you're saying.
Speaker 2: I had a really interesting experience, and I'm drawing a parallel.
Speaker 2: I don't watch television, but occasionally, you know, if I
Speaker 2: go to someone's house during sporting events, there's a lot
Speaker 2: of advertising for online betting, and that's quite staggering, and.
Speaker 3: There's a reason for that. There's also a reason.
Speaker 2: That McDonald's runs their radio ads around lunchtime and dinner time,
Speaker 2: because they know the marketing people know that you're hitting
Speaker 2: the right trigger and you're getting people at the right time. Now,
Speaker 2: I'm making excuses for the decisions people make, but I
Speaker 2: think that what's happening with the likes of AI is
Speaker 2: that you know the algorithms that we talk about social media.
Speaker 2: We keep kind of throwing that out, but what it
Speaker 2: does effectively, it's kind of make it easy. It's for
Speaker 2: people to be manipulated and more some people are more
Speaker 2: susceptible to that. And I guess that's the understanding I'm
Speaker 2: trying to bring into the conversation is that, yes, you know,
Speaker 2: we all make conscious decisions. You're right, but the marketers
Speaker 2: are getting cleverer, the people are getting cleverer, and that's
Speaker 2: that's the discus, And I guess we need to know
Speaker 2: that to know that.
Speaker 3: We're being manipulated.
Speaker 2: You know, That's why I'm steering towards the drive through,
Speaker 2: you know, for whatever happens to be So part of
Speaker 2: that is just you know what is you know, knowledge
Speaker 2: is power, and knowing that we are being.
Speaker 3: Steered in a certain direction.
Speaker 2: I remember, you know, I haven't used social media for
Speaker 2: a very long time, and a friend said to me, look,
Speaker 2: I messaged you two weeks ago. It's like, what do
Speaker 2: you mean you messaged me two weeks ago? And they said,
Speaker 2: I sent you a messenger, a message on Facebook Messenger.
Speaker 2: So dude, I haven't used Facebook Messenger for eight years.
Speaker 2: And so I went to my accounts, and I kind
Speaker 2: of looked at it and I thought, oh, okay, there's
Speaker 2: a few messages there, one three years ago. So I
Speaker 2: start looking through. But twenty minutes later I was flicking.
Speaker 2: I'm thinking, what the hell am I doing. I start
Speaker 2: doing the flick and I thought, this is the reason
Speaker 2: I stopped using social media, because I probably have one
Speaker 2: of those addictive personalities. And I made the conscious choice
Speaker 2: then to uninstall it again from the app, and I
Speaker 2: just said to my friend, just don't send me messages there.
Speaker 3: Use WhatsApp, use text.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It was an interesting thing, but I found myself being
Speaker 2: drawn in again because it cleverly.
Speaker 3: Knows, you know, it even knows what.
Speaker 2: You pause on and what has grabbed your attention and
Speaker 2: the stuff that I was looking at. There's a really
Speaker 2: great site on Facebook called earth picks. I don't know
Speaker 2: if you've ever seen earth picks, but it's this amazing
Speaker 2: site that just shows amazing footagem around the world. It
Speaker 2: could be somewhere in Nairobi, or it could be someone
Speaker 2: cycling on the top of one of those precarious cliffs,
Speaker 2: you know where the well, the cliff's not precarious, the
Speaker 2: action is, but they're riding along a cliff's edge, and
Speaker 2: I get hold by that stuff into sports.
Speaker 3: So for me, it still knows what gets me in
Speaker 3: oh one.
Speaker 1: Hundred percent, I reckon one of the smartest things you
Speaker 1: did was and You've done a lot of smart things,
Speaker 1: but like throwing your Telly away ten years ago, I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm I will put up my hand and say, well,
Speaker 1: I'm not addicted to Telly, but I do use it
Speaker 1: as maybe it's in a healthy way, but yeah, I'm I'm.
Speaker 1: I can binge a Netflix series pretty savagely, like once
Speaker 1: I open the door, and there's a bit of a
Speaker 1: biochemical addiction, right, there's this that creates this response in
Speaker 1: your brain and you're like, wow, I feel good. This
Speaker 1: is good. And then now I've just watched four episodes
Speaker 1: back to back in the night, So there's definitely that
Speaker 1: going on. And also, in your defense, you're hon A,
Speaker 1: You're exactly right. Some people are really genetically and biochemically
Speaker 1: predisposed to get hooked into things more easily. And I
Speaker 1: fully acknowledge that, so I'm not saying people who get
Speaker 1: I've worked with addic so I understand it well and
Speaker 1: I'm not saying they're at all week or anything like that.
Speaker 1: It's tough, it's real tough. All I'm saying is that
Speaker 1: at some stage we have to step up ourselves and say, well, look,
Speaker 1: I actually have the power to make decisions and do things,
Speaker 1: and you know, not do other things. But also to
Speaker 1: your point on you know, marketing and branding and advertising
Speaker 1: is entirely as you point out, it's entirely focused on
Speaker 1: getting people to buy stuff, to manipulate their thinking, to
Speaker 1: coerce them, to get them to go do a thing,
Speaker 1: go to McDonald's at this time, or buy this thing
Speaker 1: that you don't need. I mean, that's the objective, you know.
Speaker 1: About twenty years ago in Australia, I know anyway, marketing
Speaker 1: firms started working with neuroscientists. They would employ neuroscientists because
Speaker 1: they understood how the brain responds to various stimuli. And
Speaker 1: so then now they've got this, they're doing deep science
Speaker 1: in order to manipulate people, coerce influence people to buy stuff.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's things aren't always as they seem, that's
Speaker 1: for sure.
Speaker 2: And it can be really easy too, like sending tith
Speaker 2: a link to a new e ink tablet and that
Speaker 2: just centered right down the rabbit hole.
Speaker 4: He's got a whole thing. He's doing our harps.
Speaker 2: It's bush.
Speaker 1: What's he doing?
Speaker 4: Just sending me shit that I don't need to be
Speaker 4: looking at to buy that. He's trying to coax me
Speaker 4: into like that fucking crash that time.
Speaker 1: He's just as bad as fucking AI. By the way,
Speaker 1: did you find out about that question about the.
Speaker 4: Medical It looks questionable to be in a top three.
Speaker 4: There's a bit of there's a bit of yeah, what's
Speaker 4: it saying, well, just in all the places. It's just
Speaker 4: there's lots of little things saying, oh, it's not the
Speaker 4: third leading cause of death. There's a bit of whatever.
Speaker 4: I can't find anything clear on it, but on it
Speaker 4: can I just add the idea that when you're talking
Speaker 4: before and you say the algorithm's designed to get his hooked,
Speaker 4: but so is exercise, Like exercise is designed to get
Speaker 4: it hooked. But no one that's ran every day for
Speaker 4: ten years goes it's not my fault, They go, I'm
Speaker 4: so dedicated, Like it's the story we tell ourselves about
Speaker 4: the responsibility we take.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I reckon, that's such a good point if actually
Speaker 2: it really is an amazingly good point because someone told
Speaker 2: me a few years ago that it takes what sixty
Speaker 2: two days to develop.
Speaker 3: A habit craigil love that, Yeah, I go, is it
Speaker 3: about right? About sixty two days or so?
Speaker 2: But to build in a routine that then becomes something
Speaker 2: that we are more likely to continue with. It's along
Speaker 2: those lines, though, isn't it. Am I kind of right
Speaker 2: there on my way off the mark?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean there's a lot of variables around that, mate,
Speaker 1: because it's like, well, there's heroine, and there's chocolate, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, there's and there's running, there's recreation running,
Speaker 1: you know, and there's cocaine and crack you know. So,
Speaker 1: and also there's some people about five to ten according
Speaker 1: to Mick Hall, who's been on here a lot, who
Speaker 1: you know is an addiction treatment specialist, and you both
Speaker 1: know who he is, and quite a lot of check
Speaker 1: it for yourselves everyone, but reasonable researcher says five to
Speaker 1: ten percent of the population. That's a lot of people
Speaker 1: are genetically more likely to become addicts. I'm looking at
Speaker 1: you across the screen because I've moved you because I'm
Speaker 1: doing some other research, So I'm actually looking at you.
Speaker 3: I was more thinking crago.
Speaker 2: You know, if I went back to the gym this
Speaker 2: year after having a long break because of injury, and
Speaker 2: I found it, it didn't take me long to get
Speaker 2: back into the routine where when I don't do it,
Speaker 2: I miss it.
Speaker 1: I'm only talking days a week.
Speaker 2: But today, for example, we were doing the podcast early,
Speaker 2: so I've made as soon as the podcast finishes to
Speaker 2: go to the gym so I can I can do
Speaker 2: my workout because I don't want to miss today. Now,
Speaker 2: something in my brain has told me that I'm going
Speaker 2: to miss.
Speaker 3: Out on something.
Speaker 2: I as a person, will feel a sense of loss
Speaker 2: if I don't go to the gym today.
Speaker 3: Now what that says about me? It probably says a lot.
Speaker 2: But I feel like I'm missing out on something, and
Speaker 2: that takes time to develop that sense of loss or
Speaker 2: that sense of need to do that, you know, the
Speaker 2: compulsion to want to go to the gym, because that's
Speaker 2: out of my normal routine. I'm normally there at six,
Speaker 2: I see a few familiar faces. I do what I
Speaker 2: need to do, but I feel like if I'm not
Speaker 2: doing it, I'm missing out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I get it, but I guess I mean
Speaker 1: this opens the door. An interesting question, do you what
Speaker 1: are your thoughts on is there such a thing as
Speaker 1: an healthy addiction?
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I guess what I'm talking about right now
Speaker 2: is a healthy addiction because ultimately me going to the
Speaker 2: gym and doing about forty five minutes, I do my cardio,
Speaker 2: I do weights, and I feel better for it. The
Speaker 2: endorphins get kicked kicked over, but I also know that
Speaker 2: I'm making myself better. I do balance, and all the
Speaker 2: things that I'm accomplishing in the gym are things that
Speaker 2: are going to value add to my longevity.
Speaker 3: You know. I look at my TIF You'll love this.
Speaker 2: I look at my heart rate and I can see
Speaker 2: the spike when I'm doing cardio, you know, because I
Speaker 2: have a relatively low resting heart rate of about fifty
Speaker 2: two or so, which is pretty pretty low ish. But
Speaker 2: I love it when I push it up to one
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty. You know, when I'm one hundred beats faster,
Speaker 2: and I know I can get that on the rower,
Speaker 2: and I know when i'm listening to you know, heavy
Speaker 2: metal or something while I'm rowing, I can get my
Speaker 2: and I always take a photo of the a the
Speaker 2: little screen when i'm finished, so I can compare to
Speaker 2: the last few times I've beat on the rower, because
Speaker 2: I just know, you know, on a day, you know,
Speaker 2: you get to the halfway mark and I'm thinking I'm
Speaker 2: actually there.
Speaker 3: I reckon, I can beat my best time.
Speaker 2: So those sorts of things are the little bells and
Speaker 2: whistles that go off in your head that cause you
Speaker 2: to want to strive to go that little bit further,
Speaker 2: faster or harder.
Speaker 1: Let me just read something I just grab. Medical errors
Speaker 1: are a significant cause of death globally and within specific
Speaker 1: countries like the US, Australia, and the UK. While precise
Speaker 1: figures figures vary, studies suggest that a substantial number of
Speaker 1: deaths are linked to preventable medical errors. The World Health
Speaker 1: Organization estimates it approximately two point six million people die
Speaker 1: each year due to unsafe care. In the US, estimates
Speaker 1: range from two hundred and fifty thousand to four hundred
Speaker 1: and forty thousand deaths annually due to medical errors some places,
Speaker 1: some studies placing it as the third leading cause of death.
Speaker 1: But this is like tip looks up and it gets
Speaker 1: different that this is the problem. But anyway, the bottom
Speaker 1: line is similarly. Australia experience is a significant number of
Speaker 1: deaths related to medical errors, estimates ranging from eighteen thousand
Speaker 1: and fifty four thousand deaths a year in Australia from
Speaker 1: medical errors. Now that's the World Health Organization. That's not
Speaker 1: old Brian out in the back of the shed in
Speaker 1: his tin hat with his fucking conspiracy theory shit going on, right,
Speaker 1: This is WHO. So you know, it's like and I'm
Speaker 1: not saying that, and I'm not even throwing the medical
Speaker 1: system under the bus. I'm so grateful for doctors and
Speaker 1: hospitals and nurses and all the beautiful, amazing people. But
Speaker 1: I think, like we have to be we have to
Speaker 1: be like informed. And I'm not saying that that what
Speaker 1: I just read is infallible. There could be a mistake
Speaker 1: as well, but that's literally what I'm reading. That's WHO
Speaker 1: World Health Organization statistics. But you know, we need to
Speaker 1: be informed and speak from a point of you know,
Speaker 1: kind of accurate data because all the rest is just
Speaker 1: opinion and fucking emotion.
Speaker 2: I think sometimes in Australia at the moment, I was
Speaker 2: talking to my GP about this a couple of days ago. Currently,
Speaker 2: a lot of doctors in you using AI scribes to
Speaker 2: recall conversations and we were having a chat about it
Speaker 2: because he isn't using it presently. But I really like
Speaker 2: my doctor who is very I feel he's very proactive
Speaker 2: on the health side of things. He'll always spend the
Speaker 2: extra time. You know, sometimes you go to a GP
Speaker 2: and it's like they tick a box and send you out,
Speaker 2: whereas you know, my guy's up for a long chat
Speaker 2: and we talk about lots of different things, and I
Speaker 2: like that with someone who takes a personal interest. And
Speaker 2: so in Australia at the moment, a lot of doctors
Speaker 2: now are using AI to record what they say to
Speaker 2: you and then but this has been used for decades,
Speaker 2: but what AI is doing with so you can record
Speaker 2: a whole conversation, but now they're employing AI to truncate
Speaker 2: that conversation, break it down.
Speaker 3: And to pull out the highlights.
Speaker 2: And that's what they're doing that's different than been previously
Speaker 2: recorded conversations. They're now able to cherry pick the content
Speaker 2: and give you the relevant information and a lot of
Speaker 2: people are kind of I was reading this article and
Speaker 2: it might have been in mc Gharanian. I think where
Speaker 2: there was the pros and cons should you allow yourself
Speaker 2: to be recorded and that conversation then to be saved.
Speaker 2: And the reality of it is our health records are accessible,
Speaker 2: and I think that a lot of people don't realize that.
Speaker 2: So if you do have a conversation with your GP,
Speaker 2: everything that goes down into your health record you should
Speaker 2: be able to access and have a look at. But
Speaker 2: I like the idea because when you're dealing with a
Speaker 2: medical issue, I think particularly if it's something you're a
Speaker 2: bit frightened about. And I'm happy to be upfront about this.
Speaker 2: I've been getting some tests recently because my identical twin
Speaker 2: brother had prostate cancer last year, and so we've been
Speaker 2: doing some scans to do a benchmark so that I
Speaker 2: can make sure that I know what I look like
Speaker 2: now and then that way, if something happens in twelve
Speaker 2: months time, we have a comparative scan to look at
Speaker 2: to say has there been a change, because I'm scared.
Speaker 2: You know, I am genetically identical to my brother, and
Speaker 2: the only differences I guess have been our lifestyles. But
Speaker 2: the fact that at an age which under sixty, to
Speaker 2: have prostate cancer is not good because it then means
Speaker 2: that siblings are at a much higher risk, So I'm
Speaker 2: mindful of that.
Speaker 3: And that's why having a.
Speaker 2: Good GP who's prepared to do preventive or at least,
Speaker 2: you know, actions in place to make sure there are
Speaker 2: baselines that we can refer back to is really important.
Speaker 2: And so yeah, I'd be happy to have everything we
Speaker 2: say taken down by a scribe that then is aide
Speaker 2: and everything's remembered.
Speaker 3: What about you, tif you would you be happy.
Speaker 2: To go to a consultation or to sit down to
Speaker 2: a therapist or something and everything everything recorded. Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, crag go, Yeah, definitely. I think what you're
Speaker 1: talking about is also a really good idea because it's
Speaker 1: the integration of a human that you like and know
Speaker 1: and have a relationship with and trust, right, and then
Speaker 1: he or she doesn't need to be jotting everything, like
Speaker 1: if you've got something else taking notes, it's so much easier.
Speaker 1: Then they can spend more time and energy on you,
Speaker 1: which that's a nice symbiosis. Do you like that word tip?
Speaker 1: That's a very good wormight to dop that You're welcome. Hey, mate,
Speaker 1: I realized we don't have that long to go, and
Speaker 1: we've done none of your lists, so I'm going to
Speaker 1: be bold and fucking take the reins back because I.
Speaker 3: Told you didn't. I godn't.
Speaker 1: No, you're exactly right. You know, well we've only gone
Speaker 1: through one thing on your list. No we haven't. Don't
Speaker 1: you see what I've been doing, Craigo. I've been weaving
Speaker 1: throughout the list. We've used three stories from my list.
Speaker 1: But I'm just weaving through that conversation.
Speaker 2: That's right, buddy, because that was going to it's a memory,
Speaker 2: see the next like the adjunct to that.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: The little synergy to what we were talking about was,
Speaker 2: you know, the reality is if you're a GP and
Speaker 2: you're focusing on the person, sometimes if you're taking notes,
Speaker 2: it can be dis jointed, whereas if you're recording it.
Speaker 2: And memory is an interesting thing, and scientists have been
Speaker 2: doing what they're calling a time travel memory hack to
Speaker 2: help people remember stuff. So what the found is emotions
Speaker 2: are closely linked to memory. So this is specifically going
Speaker 2: to benefit learning as opposed to just general memories of events.
Speaker 3: So this is focused on study.
Speaker 2: So if you're a student or a learner or whatever,
Speaker 2: but you're learning something new, what the suggesting is that
Speaker 2: you review what you've just done, but don't think about
Speaker 2: the action, think about the emotions, so where you were
Speaker 2: at the time, and by reinforcing the emotions surrounding that,
Speaker 2: it actually helps us retain a much higher degree of
Speaker 2: memory and can actually bring it back and strengthen that memory.
Speaker 2: So when you think of memory as kind of I guess,
Speaker 2: a snowball rolling down a hill and it kind of
Speaker 2: gains momentum, you can slow that down by looking at
Speaker 2: the emotions related.
Speaker 3: To that memory.
Speaker 2: So I just thought that was kind of interesting that,
Speaker 2: you know, for each of us, you know, learn is
Speaker 2: difficult and remembering stuff is tough, and so these new
Speaker 2: ways to kind of hack memory and think about the
Speaker 2: way and the emotions. I think it's fascinating. And you know,
Speaker 2: I know smell is associated with memory. Every night, most
Speaker 2: nights a week, I have a little oil burner and
Speaker 2: I put of scented oil in, but a peppermint scented.
Speaker 3: Oil, because there was some research that was done.
Speaker 2: That said that that particular carrier oil can trigger memory.
Speaker 2: Because smell is very closely associated with memory as well.
Speaker 2: So if you have one of those little oil diffuses
Speaker 2: and you set it for two hours when you go
Speaker 2: to bed, it can actually help with memory retention.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so true. Memory like smell, Like I think
Speaker 1: it's because I have a one point five nose. I
Speaker 1: can smell shit two suburbs away, right, And and yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know I'm not pretty everyone. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you've ever seen me, but fucking don't look too close. Patrick,
Speaker 1: on the other hand, Brad Pitt prostate, bit dodgy but
Speaker 1: face fucking beautiful. And Tiff more jack than both of us.
Speaker 1: But I don't know this, like this is a I
Speaker 1: have good ones and negative ones, but a negative one.
Speaker 1: You know that stuff we used to eat Patrick when
Speaker 1: we were kids called strasbourg.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, god yeah, oh fuck right that Tiff.
Speaker 1: Do you know what that is?
Speaker 4: Is that that like devon meat?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just like fucking goop in a tube. I
Speaker 1: don't know what. I don't know what it is, but
Speaker 1: it's like I think it's, you know, sphinters and livers
Speaker 1: and just put through a grinder. I don't know what
Speaker 1: it is, right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, when
Speaker 1: I was a kid, I was about eight, and I
Speaker 1: used to fucking inhale that ship with sauce and white
Speaker 1: bread because I was a pig and I has a
Speaker 1: little pig. That was before I got to the cheesecake. Numb, numb, numb,
Speaker 1: get out of my way. I was very hard to
Speaker 1: distract when I was eating, very hard to get my
Speaker 1: attention anyway. So I ate about two pounds of that.
Speaker 1: Then was violently ill. And then now even obviously I've
Speaker 1: never eaten it touched it since. But even now, if
Speaker 1: I see it, if I see that or what looks
Speaker 1: like that similar to that, I almost gag. And if
Speaker 1: I smell it or something like it, I could pretty
Speaker 1: much vomit on cue. It's just and I'd never think
Speaker 1: about it unless I see it or smell it. And
Speaker 1: we're talking literally fifty years down the track. There's something
Speaker 1: built into my brain and my physiology that so that
Speaker 1: is very true, Patrick. There is emotions and smells and
Speaker 1: stories also, stories are kind of you know, experiences have
Speaker 1: us tied into certain memories.
Speaker 3: I'm just picturing Mary unwrapping the strasbourg from the paper
Speaker 3: wrap and.
Speaker 4: Staying one piece won't hurting your hand in the work,
Speaker 4: and then coming back and counting to see if she's
Speaker 4: still had all five fingers.
Speaker 1: Well, she used to just put it in the bowl
Speaker 1: on the floor when me and the dog would eat
Speaker 1: side by side, so I always beat the dog, So
Speaker 1: fuck you dog. Patrick tell us about robot hands building
Speaker 1: pizzas speaking of food. Oh dear, we.
Speaker 3: Had this conversation during the week by text tip.
Speaker 2: So they've developed this is for people who actually have disabilities.
Speaker 2: Is primarily who they're focused on and what it is.
Speaker 2: It's a robotic assistant. One of the difficulties with robots
Speaker 2: is they use them in production all the time, so
Speaker 2: car manufacturers use them. But the thing is, a robot
Speaker 2: arm that's designed to pick up a heavy object is
Speaker 2: very different than say a robot arm that's picking up
Speaker 2: little grains of cheese that have fallen. You know, so
Speaker 2: you've dropped pieces of cheese and it's picking up the
Speaker 2: little The dexterity is really different. And so they've got
Speaker 2: this robot that has the strength to be able to
Speaker 2: pick up large objects, say a pot of boiling water,
Speaker 2: but it can also be very delicate because it has
Speaker 2: soft fingertips to be able to sense the pressure. And
Speaker 2: so this this new robotic arm or new robotic hand
Speaker 2: can be used just to keep with disabilities, to give
Speaker 2: them more independence.
Speaker 1: Craig I will say tiff I, tiff Tip, it wasn't me.
Speaker 1: Patrick did suggest that he might get one for his bedroom.
Speaker 1: I did not know what he was talking about. No,
Speaker 1: did not know. Hey, don't bring up your fucking phone, everyone,
Speaker 1: that's it. That's another episode of you projected story, tiff Ah,
Speaker 1: don't let facts get in the way. Patrick, have we not?
Speaker 1: I think I'm a contradicting myself.
Speaker 3: I send him this article.
Speaker 2: So it's a robot AI robot arm builds meals and
Speaker 2: helps users with limited mobility. So I send it off
Speaker 2: to Crago and I said, hey, maybe you could get
Speaker 2: one via bedroom. His reply was if they built, but
Speaker 2: with a mouth.
Speaker 1: I did not say that.
Speaker 2: My reply was, I'm sure it's on the way. Maybe
Speaker 2: we'll get a discountfort too. And Craig's reply figures crossed.
Speaker 1: That that's a complete lie. Everyone. I wouldn't participate any
Speaker 1: kind of conversational transaction like that. I've been misrepresented. I'm
Speaker 1: calling my lawyer. That's fucking that's that's terrible, Patrick, that
Speaker 1: you misrepresent me like that to people.
Speaker 2: And so her sending your screenshot of that what'sapp private conversation?
Speaker 1: The show doesn't prove anything. Tell us why Delta Airlines
Speaker 1: and others are working with an AI startup that personalizes prices.
Speaker 1: What does that even mean?
Speaker 3: Mastards?
Speaker 2: Sorry, So there's a few senators in the US that
Speaker 2: are having a real look at this, this scrutinizing this. Evidently,
Speaker 2: what they're going to do is try to look at
Speaker 2: and profile people and then adjust the prices accordingly. So
Speaker 2: the idea being is if you could afford to pay more,
Speaker 2: they'll bump up the price for you. Now they're denying this,
Speaker 2: but it's come under the scrutiny because they're teaming up
Speaker 2: with this is Israeli company that specializes in using an AI
Speaker 2: algorithm to be able to take on people's situations, to
Speaker 2: profile somebody and then adjust the prices according to that
Speaker 2: person's circumstances. So this is, you know, personalized prices like
Speaker 2: really rub me up the wrong way. I think it's
Speaker 2: an awful situation if it looked at the three of
Speaker 2: us and decided what we're going to be paying based
Speaker 2: on whatever it decided. So this is there's been a
Speaker 2: recent letter to the members of Congress. The company is
Speaker 2: denied using AI tools to what they say price gouge customers.
Speaker 2: So that was a report in Reuters. But this democratic
Speaker 2: error zone as Senator a lady, I thigur it's a lady,
Speaker 2: or maybe it could be a bloke. Anyway, the Senator
Speaker 2: has accused Delta of telling their investors one thing and
Speaker 2: then turning around and telling the public and other things.
Speaker 2: So they're talking it up to their investors because of course,
Speaker 2: if they can get people to spend more, it's going
Speaker 2: to do good for the bottom line when it comes
Speaker 2: to people who are invested in the airline. But it
Speaker 2: got me thinking, and by coincidence, this week there's you know,
Speaker 2: I'm living in a small country town of about three
Speaker 2: thousand people, and there was a little fruit and d
Speaker 2: shop that sadly closed down, and I used to go
Speaker 2: there all the time. I used to get my watercress
Speaker 2: from there. Now I can't get watercress, not that you
Speaker 2: needed to know that, but it's good in wraps anyway.
Speaker 2: So they closed down about a week and a half
Speaker 2: two weeks ago, and I happened to be walking through
Speaker 2: the supermarket and the owner of the supermarket had his
Speaker 2: iPad out and was looking at prices.
Speaker 3: Tips piss and herself.
Speaker 2: But so he's looking at prices and I just turned
Speaker 2: the corner and got into the aisle and the staff
Speaker 2: memory he was talking to said twenty five percent. And
Speaker 2: his reply was, well, the fruit and veg shops closed down?
Speaker 1: Oh wow, yeah, So well that's yeah, I mean, that's
Speaker 1: how the free market works. We've got a monopoly. Hey,
Speaker 1: I just wanted to ask. I want to circle back
Speaker 1: to one thing because I want your thoughts and explanation
Speaker 1: because I don't really get it. The thing I don't
Speaker 1: really get is so from the end of the year
Speaker 1: or whenever it is, they're banning kids under sixteen from
Speaker 1: using social media correct.
Speaker 3: Yes, including a cube now and that was the recent
Speaker 3: edition as well, because the review shube is going to
Speaker 3: be exempt.
Speaker 1: So is this a law or is this a recommendation?
Speaker 3: Is this law enshrining it in law? How on how
Speaker 3: on earth are they going to police it?
Speaker 1: How on earth do you stop a sixteen year old?
Speaker 2: So what you do is no, no, it's about putting
Speaker 2: pressure on those social media outlets to be able to
Speaker 2: prove that people are the age that they are. It's
Speaker 2: going to impact all of us. So when you go
Speaker 2: to sign up for a new accounts, they're going to
Speaker 2: ask for a method of ID to prove, so the
Speaker 2: owners is going to be on those social media organizations.
Speaker 2: So what we're saying is, if Craig wants to set
Speaker 2: up a Snapchat account or a YouTube account or an
Speaker 2: Instagram account, you have to prove your over the age
Speaker 2: of sixteen.
Speaker 1: What about Oh wow, you know what I just thought,
Speaker 1: which you'd probably thought, what about all the thirteen fourteen
Speaker 1: fifteen year olds on well, TikTok and ig who are like,
Speaker 1: got lots of profile and momentum and like a lot
Speaker 1: of their their social kind of interaction is there.
Speaker 3: Well, I think the interesting thing will be originally so,
Speaker 3: I don't know that all social medias require you to
Speaker 3: have put an age in the first place. So there's
Speaker 3: been a scramble. An article I read earlier in the
Speaker 3: week said there's been a scramble. I think it might've
Speaker 3: been on the ABC that a lot of young people
Speaker 3: who are under the age of sixteen and are rushing
Speaker 3: to get accounts now before they need to prove that
Speaker 3: they're under the age of sixteen. So I think if
Speaker 3: you've already got an existing account, there's an argument that
Speaker 3: it's an existing account. That's a really really good question.
Speaker 2: I don't know that I know the answer to that, well,
Speaker 2: I do know, I don't know the answer. I'm not
Speaker 2: entirely sure, but I figure that if you've got an
Speaker 2: account already and you've got traction with that account, you
Speaker 2: haven't needed to prove your age to get it in
Speaker 2: the first place, so you can't. I don't think it's retrospective.
Speaker 2: I don't think they're going to roll it back that way.
Speaker 2: But that's a really good point. I'm not sure I reckon.
Speaker 1: What is really an interesting paradoxical kind of thing is
Speaker 1: that so they're going to force all of these social
Speaker 1: media platforms, YouTube and the like. Would you call YouTube
Speaker 1: a social media platform or would you just call a
Speaker 1: streaming platform? Yeah, whatever, anyway, so they're forcing them to
Speaker 1: create this gateway or whatever it is or process to
Speaker 1: ensure that people are a certain age, and that very
Speaker 1: process is commercially destructive for them, Like that just means
Speaker 1: they're going to have less users. So what the government
Speaker 1: saying is you're going to have less people using it.
Speaker 1: You're going to bottom line is the more people using it,
Speaker 1: the more income. And they're a business, so they're a
Speaker 1: profit profit driven business, like nearly all businesses, not all
Speaker 1: but nearly all, and we're making you do this thing
Speaker 1: that's going to equal. The net result is you'll make
Speaker 1: less money because you've got less users. I wonder what
Speaker 1: they're hack around, because they must be thinking already, how
Speaker 1: can we beat this, because they're not going to go, oh, sure,
Speaker 1: we want thirty percent of or forty percent of our
Speaker 1: users to just jump off, okay, government, We're fine. I
Speaker 1: wonder what they're counter to that is.
Speaker 2: That's an absolutely amazingly good question. The interesting thing for
Speaker 2: me is that there was certainly some media outlets on
Speaker 2: some social media is young people have no desire whatsoever
Speaker 2: to be on like Facebook and Institute, maybe Instagram a
Speaker 2: little bit more, but definitely not Facebook. No young person
Speaker 2: in their right mind wants to be on Facebook. That's
Speaker 2: just like for dinosaurs.
Speaker 1: Now it is a little bit, isn't it. But remember
Speaker 1: when it was like two thousand and eight, Zuckerberg or
Speaker 1: whatever it was, it was like it was the.
Speaker 2: Way, oh, because it was originally designed at a university
Speaker 2: level for young university students to connect with each other.
Speaker 2: It was Zuckerberg obviously had no friends, and that's how he.
Speaker 1: Well, he's kicked on. He's kicked gone, he's done all right,
Speaker 1: the young loser he's kicked on.
Speaker 3: Do you want to be his mate?
Speaker 1: Would you I'd be interested to speak to I would
Speaker 1: be interested to meet him, and then make that determination,
Speaker 1: like I think, what do you know about anyone? Stick?
Speaker 1: Some you know, they say, don't meet your heroes. I
Speaker 1: won't say. I've met a few people that I really thought, well,
Speaker 1: I love them, and then I met him and I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh God, you're a fucking idiot or you're just so
Speaker 1: you know. And then other people that I thought were
Speaker 1: maybe not not someone i'd want to meet and they
Speaker 1: were brilliant. I'm like, oh you are actually great. Hey,
Speaker 1: I who was that you were telling me about? Like
Speaker 1: someone on social media that you didn't really warm to,
Speaker 1: and then you you got you started looking at their
Speaker 1: content or knowing a bit more about them, and you
Speaker 1: kind of did a one eighty. I remember you telling.
Speaker 4: Me about it. I know there was I think there's
Speaker 4: been a couple, but I know Lane Norton. Was it
Speaker 4: like that for me? You two people from podcasts Jimmy
Speaker 4: Carr now fan and Norton as well, because I heard
Speaker 4: him on a podcast and it changed my change my
Speaker 4: perception of his carry on on socials.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you Patrick, have you Let's go a
Speaker 1: good one. Have you ever met anyone that you were
Speaker 1: really surprised how much you liked them and connected with
Speaker 1: him when perhaps you thought you might not of.
Speaker 3: Not so much that I didn't know of, but they
Speaker 3: were so kind of not out of reach.
Speaker 2: But Bryce Coordinay, you know Bryce who wrote prolific author.
Speaker 2: I bumped into him just coming out of the lift
Speaker 2: when I was working at Triple M and Fox and
Speaker 2: someone I was.
Speaker 3: With knew him and introduced me to him.
Speaker 2: And the interesting thing was he started asking me about
Speaker 2: what I was doing, you know, because I just finished
Speaker 2: to breakfast shift, and he said, you know, we got chatting,
Speaker 2: and by coincidence, I was about to go to the gym,
Speaker 2: to your gym, to Harper's and he got to me
Speaker 2: about keeping fit and he was so interested. I kept
Speaker 2: trying to ask him questions, but he was asking me
Speaker 2: lots of questions and he was such a nice guy.
Speaker 2: He was really really nice. There's this funny little I
Speaker 2: got to tell you this story. There was this really
Speaker 2: great ABC TV show that was interviewing Australia's really famous
Speaker 2: authors was Colin McCulloch, Bryce Courtney, and I think Matthew Riley,
Speaker 2: who and if you're looking for an action book that
Speaker 2: you can't put down, Matthew Riley is amazing. So the
Speaker 2: three of them were giving this round table interview and
Speaker 2: Matthew and Bryce Courtney kind of said, look, he's very
Speaker 2: well known for he was very well known for giving
Speaker 2: away books. He'd give about away two thousand books a year.
Speaker 2: And the thing he always used to say is if
Speaker 2: you give away one book, you've got a fan for life.
Speaker 2: And so Matthew Riley said, you know, if you can
Speaker 2: find a Bryce Courtney book that isn't signed, it'll be
Speaker 2: worth a fortune.
Speaker 1: That's funny, that's funny.
Speaker 3: It was really cute. It was really cute.
Speaker 2: And he said, you can tell how famous an author
Speaker 2: is when the name that the author's name is bigger
Speaker 2: than the title of the book.
Speaker 3: And he was taking the piss out of them as well.
Speaker 2: Know, Colin McCulloch and Bryce Courtney, you look at any
Speaker 2: of their books and their name is bigger than the title.
Speaker 3: It's great, isn't it.
Speaker 2: So it was a beautiful conversation and really interesting, but
Speaker 2: he certainly was somebody that blew me away just by
Speaker 2: how personable, how how interested he was in me as
Speaker 2: a person in that very brief moment that we had
Speaker 2: that conversation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well you Craig, if you had that.
Speaker 1: I mean, I've met lots of people, but just someone
Speaker 1: that I thought was great and then I met them
Speaker 1: and I went, oh, you're you're even better. It was
Speaker 1: Bruce mcavany. Oh yeah, like I always you know, which
Speaker 1: some people would not know him, but a lot of
Speaker 1: our listeners would, you know, just not just but a
Speaker 1: sports commentator, but just like a bit of a savant
Speaker 1: with you know, sports history and data and information and
Speaker 1: everything from track and field to horse racing to footy
Speaker 1: to swimming. Like he's just he's just yeah. But I
Speaker 1: met him at SCN when I was working there, and
Speaker 1: and you know when people grab your hand and then
Speaker 1: they grab your forearm and they shake your four arm
Speaker 1: and your hand at the same time, and he was
Speaker 1: just yeah, same, just the nicest dude ever, very engaging,
Speaker 1: not it wasn't you know when some people they shake
Speaker 1: your hand and it's almost just like this obligatory social
Speaker 1: thing that takes four seconds, they're not really present. He
Speaker 1: was just yeah, I had that recently.
Speaker 3: I was a colleague that i'd met.
Speaker 2: This is a company we do social media for and
Speaker 2: the guy that is our main contact, so it's normally
Speaker 2: by email, but he popped into our office. But he
Speaker 2: was one of those people, you know. He shook my
Speaker 2: hand and he thanked us for the work that we'd
Speaker 2: been doing. But the shake was that little bit extra,
Speaker 2: a little bit longer.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 2: It was a real sense of connectedness and sincerity. And
Speaker 2: I think sometimes you can tell that in a handshake
Speaker 2: that the person is genuinely kind of in that tactile touch.
Speaker 2: And we didn't shake hands for a long time around COVID,
Speaker 2: remember we you know, remember I can remember going to
Speaker 2: a board meeting. I was on the quality risk committee
Speaker 2: of our local hospital, and I sat on that committee
Speaker 2: for quite a few years. And I remember the first
Speaker 2: this is pre COVID, but going into to COVID where
Speaker 2: the doctor came in and I hadn't met him before,
Speaker 2: and I went to shake his hand and he pulled
Speaker 2: back and put his both hands up, and it's like,
Speaker 2: what the hell, you know, it's really I felt really
Speaker 2: offended because he didn't want to touch my hand, because
Speaker 2: I'd never met him before, and the first instinct was
Speaker 2: to shake hands.
Speaker 3: And this was literally pre COVID.
Speaker 2: It was only this the rumors of COVID at the time,
Speaker 2: but they'd already started to put in place, you know,
Speaker 2: the protections and all that sort of thing. And obviously
Speaker 2: tactile contact was out. For so many years, we'd in touch,
Speaker 2: we didn't hug people, and so now that we seem
Speaker 2: to have returned back to that where people can physically
Speaker 2: connect in that way, it is interesting and a handshake
Speaker 2: can say a lot about a person, can't it.
Speaker 1: Oh? Certainly? Well, you and I didn't stop spooning all
Speaker 1: through COVID, so I mean we just took the risk.
Speaker 1: We went fuck it. Well, fuck the rules, We're going
Speaker 1: to spoon. Hey, tell people and.
Speaker 3: Spoon now we swap See. I think that's nice too.
Speaker 1: Yes, well those not hot. I was going to say
Speaker 1: something hilarious. If you stop and.
Speaker 3: Tell the whole show you're a legend.
Speaker 1: Yes she did. Patrick tell people how to find you,
Speaker 1: follow you and connect with you and potentially spoon with you.
Speaker 1: If you would, that would be great.
Speaker 3: I've had no offers yet, Craigo.
Speaker 2: You say that every time we speak websitesnow dot com
Speaker 2: today you if you want to talk business related stuff
Speaker 2: like websites and stuff, but if you want to tai
Speaker 2: chi is my big passion in life.
Speaker 3: I love tai chi.
Speaker 2: And if you want to just do tai chi with me,
Speaker 2: like watch a video with me and Fritz doing tai chi.
Speaker 2: Just tie chi at home dot com, todau, just jump in,
Speaker 2: just ent.
Speaker 3: I'd love it.
Speaker 2: What belt is, Fritz? Now, we don't do belts in taichi?
Speaker 2: Well we do, but just that's to stop our.
Speaker 3: Pants from falling down. Yeah, other belts or anything like that.
Speaker 3: We just do it, you know, you just do it.
Speaker 1: Crego alright, Tiff, thank you, Thanks lads. That was an
Speaker 1: emotional rollercoaster for me. That show. I'm going to have
Speaker 1: to go and have a shower, cold shower and a
Speaker 1: xanax whatever that is. I'm plushioned. I'm an emotional wreck.
Speaker 3: You should keep that in, Tiff, just keep it rolling.
Speaker 1: No, she will, She'll leave that in. All right, let's
Speaker 1: officially say goodbye. Thank you listeners. You're great. Thanks Patrick,
Speaker 1: Thanks Tiff, see you guys,