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Speaker 1: I'll get a team. Welcome to another installing the show.

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Speaker 1: It's The Bloody Youth Project. Of course it is Craig

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Speaker 1: Anthony Harper Simon. What's your middle name?

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Speaker 2: Son, John or you can call me Johnny if you want.

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Speaker 2: It's actually John Simon is Johnny Cito. So some of

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Speaker 2: my friends call me.

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Speaker 1: Really did you used to get did your mum or

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Speaker 1: dad give you the whole Simon? John Hill get in

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Speaker 1: here now when you're in trouble kind of vibe?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Were you? Were you difficult? Were you a problem child?

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Speaker 3: I was?

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Speaker 2: I was the younger, the younger child and the youngest

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Speaker 2: have an older brother. And yes, fair to say, I

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Speaker 2: got up to my fair share of trouble at school.

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Speaker 2: Dad Dad was called up to school quite a lot

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Speaker 2: in high school. I remember once Craig I.

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Speaker 3: At our school.

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Speaker 2: I went to school out on Altham So also Fellow

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Speaker 2: Melbourne in and I was quite up genes. I remember

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Speaker 2: we had like some landscape gardeners that would work on

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Speaker 2: our on the school kind of length property and take

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Speaker 2: care of the gardens and mow the lawns and the

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Speaker 2: football level and all that stuff. Did a great job

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Speaker 2: and they left the golf buggy that they used one

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Speaker 2: day with the keys in it. And I took that

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Speaker 2: golf buggy, who drove it on the road with like

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Speaker 2: five or six friends on the back and hanging off

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Speaker 2: the side of it down to research shops, which were

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Speaker 2: like the closest shops to get fish and chips. And

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Speaker 2: unfortunately we drove past one of our teachers on the

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Speaker 2: way down, so that didn't end so well.

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Speaker 1: I thought you were going to tell me you drove

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Speaker 1: past a cop car on the way back to the

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Speaker 1: school or something, But yeah, well what year was that, mate?

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Speaker 1: Give your take?

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Speaker 3: Gosh, two thousand and one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you could probably do that. You know, that's like

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Speaker 1: quarter of a century ago. Bro, can you leave a

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Speaker 1: quarter of a century ago? You did that.

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Speaker 3: Easy? It's crazy. I don't feel like.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to tell you you're old, but I

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Speaker 1: just out of the bag. Hey, So thank you for

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Speaker 1: doing this. I appreciate you. I was made aware of you.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how it wasn't how I didn't. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I've known about you for about six months. I don't

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Speaker 1: know how I didn't discover you before that. But and

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying this insincerely, folks, if you don't follow Simon,

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Speaker 1: follow him. His stuff is great, He's great. What I

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Speaker 1: love about him is he's really objective, he's really well

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Speaker 1: thought through. He's he's not hysterical, he's not pushing an agenda,

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Speaker 1: he's not selling shit. And I love the way that

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Speaker 1: you communicate, and I love the capacity that you have

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Speaker 1: to be able to disseminate what can be complicated ship

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Speaker 1: in a user friendly way. So is that I mean,

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Speaker 1: is that that's obviously how do I share?

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Speaker 2: This can be you know, because I should change my

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Speaker 2: I should change my buyo, or I should change the

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Speaker 2: the about about us page. And I think I might

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Speaker 2: steal that from you, because honestly, I grew up my

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Speaker 2: dad's a professor of physiology, and so you can imagine

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Speaker 2: what you know when I'm five six, seven eight and

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Speaker 2: at the dinner table and he's talking like an academic, right,

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Speaker 2: I had to very quickly learn to know ask the stupid,

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Speaker 2: dumb questions to get him to kind of make it

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Speaker 2: more accessible, because it's like another language that these guys speak.

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Speaker 2: Whether you're at a conference or you're reading the peer

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Speaker 2: review studies. That is a giant arms length away from

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Speaker 2: the everyday person who really needs that information. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's I've kind of taken I guess, those skills that

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Speaker 2: I learned at the dinner table and use those today

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Speaker 2: to sit down with people like my dad, other professors

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Speaker 2: and get them to kind of translate or share their

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Speaker 2: often thirty forty years of research in a more accessible,

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Speaker 2: more palatable way so that we can myself included, can

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Speaker 2: make sense of it.

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Speaker 1: As I mean, it's literally like I said to you

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Speaker 1: before we started recording, like I'm I'm not a genius

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Speaker 1: at all, and I'm a procademic. And when I started

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Speaker 1: doing like I finished my last degree a long time ago,

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Speaker 1: and then when I started my PhD, and I'm at

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Speaker 1: what's called Brain Park, the Neuroscience neurocyclab of Monash University

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Speaker 1: in Melbourne, and I'm sitting amongst all these fucking twenty

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Speaker 1: three year old genie I like a fucking wombat in

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Speaker 1: a black T shirt. I'm trying to figure out. And

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Speaker 1: then we're having meetings where everybody gets together and talks

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Speaker 1: about their project, in other words, their PhD, like what

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Speaker 1: they're doing in their research, and I literally, for a

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Speaker 1: year didn't understand what anyone was talking about. I had

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Speaker 1: to keep going, what does that mean? What does that mean?

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Speaker 1: What's that word? Like, I'm writing stuff that not a

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Speaker 1: year but a rock solid six months. And I think

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Speaker 1: sometimes with academia and research for many people, and it's

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Speaker 1: not good or bad, and it's not a it's not

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Speaker 1: a slight on anyone's intelligence, but it's like you're walking

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Speaker 1: into a room where everyone's literally speaking a different language.

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Speaker 1: It's like, I'm you know, like I walk into room

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Speaker 1: and everyone in the room speaks Russian except me. Well,

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Speaker 1: I know I'm not stupid, and I know that they're

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Speaker 1: not necessarily smarter than me, but I don't speak Russian,

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Speaker 1: so I'm at a massive disadvantage. And everything they're telling

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Speaker 1: me is to them, it's clear and it makes sense,

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Speaker 1: and the research is right and it's logical and it's

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Speaker 1: even relevant to me. But I'm like, that's awesome, but

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Speaker 1: I don't fucking speak Russian. And that's what it's like sometimes,

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Speaker 1: that chasm between research and information that's relevant for so

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Speaker 1: many people. And that's why I think your stuff is

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Speaker 1: good is great, because that's you're almost like which I

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Speaker 1: try and be too, but you're kind of a conduit

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Speaker 1: between these two disparate sometimes disparate worlds.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think my guiding light, which I feel in

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Speaker 2: the brief time that i've I've got to learn a

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Speaker 2: little bit more about you today is curiosity. And I

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Speaker 2: think you share that, and it's it's frustrating. It's frustrating

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Speaker 2: when you don't understand something, and it can be scary

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Speaker 2: to kind of to ask the quote unquote dumb question.

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Speaker 2: But I very much since I was little and to

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Speaker 2: this date, I'm not one to sit back if I

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Speaker 2: have a question and it's it's it's silly, it's.

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Speaker 3: Dumb, and I could look stupid.

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Speaker 2: I'm still gonna ask it because curiosity is really what's

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Speaker 2: driving everything I do, and it has to be driving

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Speaker 2: what you do to put out in one episode every

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Speaker 2: single day.

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Speaker 3: And I think you said two thousand episodes so.

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Speaker 2: Far, I have to imagine curiosity is curiosity is at

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Speaker 2: the center of that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I I did it. I did a podcast probably

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Speaker 1: two or three years ago now with a guy from

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Speaker 1: the States called Professor Amic Goswami, and at the time

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Speaker 1: he was eighty four and he's like a super duper

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Speaker 1: professional professor of theoretical physics and quantum theory, and mud

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Speaker 1: he like all this, and I'm I started talking to him, Simon,

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Speaker 1: I'm five minutes in and I'm thinking, I'm fucked. I

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Speaker 1: do not have I'm running out of shit to ask him,

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Speaker 1: and I'm because I'm not smart enough to be in

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Speaker 1: this room. And I just stopped and I went and

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Speaker 1: he was so beautiful. He was like this wise spiritual,

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Speaker 1: it's like the insection of spirituality and research and academia.

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Speaker 1: And I said to him, professor, can I tell you something?

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Speaker 1: And he goes, yes, of course, And I'm not smart

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Speaker 1: enough to be in this chat. And then he just

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Speaker 1: laughed and he went, oh, I think you're quite smart.

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Speaker 1: And then he went I went, oh, I don't know

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Speaker 1: about that, but you know, for me, it's like that, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've I'd rather just go I need to kind of

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Speaker 1: own up a little bit because I'm not sure what

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Speaker 1: I'm asked. I don't know. I don't even know what

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Speaker 1: to ask you in this moment to make it a

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Speaker 1: good listening experience for the thousands of people that rock

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Speaker 1: up to listen to this every day. And he was

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Speaker 1: so good, he was so and it ended up being

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Speaker 1: a really good chat. But I just had that moment

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Speaker 1: of terror where I'm I'm thinking, I don't know how

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Speaker 1: to make this okay.

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Speaker 2: Right, But it sounds like I mean for you to

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Speaker 2: say that was quite vulnerable. So it took it took

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Speaker 2: a lot of It took a lot of vulnerability for

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Speaker 2: you to kind of put your hand up.

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Speaker 3: And say, I'm not sure what to ask you.

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Speaker 2: But as is often the case, if we are vulnerable

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Speaker 2: and willing to kind of let down the wall, good

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Speaker 2: things can happen. So I'm glad that you had that

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Speaker 2: experience and he didn't. He didn't just say okay, let's

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Speaker 2: end the podcast.

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Speaker 1: That would have been That would have been hurtful. That

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Speaker 1: would have been hurtful. All right, So let's talk a

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Speaker 1: bit about you and your stuff. So I told you

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Speaker 1: before you know, we went live, that I started really

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Speaker 1: in the physical space ex sized physiology and training people

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Speaker 1: and all of that. And I still love that and

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Speaker 1: I still help a few people out in that space.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I got to the point with me

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Speaker 1: where I went, you know, bodies are interesting, but minds

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Speaker 1: for me, minds and brains are more interesting. And so

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Speaker 1: I'm going to open that door now. And did you

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Speaker 1: start in physio? Am I right with that. You started

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Speaker 1: as a physiotherapist.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I went.

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Speaker 2: I went straight into physiotherapy Latrobe University and so I

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Speaker 2: did my under undergraduate there and then went to private practice.

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Speaker 2: So I was working at you pran sports medicine center.

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Speaker 2: Marlven wrote, Yeah, so I worked there. I was fortunate

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Speaker 2: enough to get a job straight straight out of university

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Speaker 2: there and worked there. And then I was working with

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Speaker 2: Coburg Tiger in the Richmond Football Club and so working

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Speaker 2: with elite athletes. And that was the time actually when

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Speaker 2: Ben Cousins had come back from West Coast and was

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Speaker 2: playing playing with Richmond. He was playing quite a bit

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Speaker 2: of football with Koburg Tigers, so I remember treating him

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Speaker 2: and so I was in that physiotherapy space. And then

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Speaker 2: you know, some years later we ended up going back

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Speaker 2: to university as you know, and I went to Degan University.

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Speaker 3: That's where did my masters and nutrition mm hmm, I was.

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Speaker 1: We were probably at similar time. I worked at Port

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Speaker 1: Melbourne for a few years also in the NFL, and

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Speaker 1: then before that at the Saints and the AFL for

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Speaker 1: about four years. In those it's it's it's an interesting environment.

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Speaker 1: That system isn't.

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Speaker 3: It mm hmm, yeah it is.

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Speaker 2: I mean I loved that environment because I was playing

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Speaker 2: football in the Eastern Football League and school and I

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Speaker 2: was captain of our school football team.

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Speaker 3: So I took footy really seriously.

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Speaker 2: And when I finished high school two thousand and four,

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Speaker 2: I knew that I wasn't going to take football any

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Speaker 2: any further, and so physiotherapy for me was a way

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Speaker 2: to stay involved in football, and I knew it was

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Speaker 2: like going straight into first year. I knew I was

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Speaker 2: going to go down the path of kind of sports

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Speaker 2: physiotherapy and then I ultimately try and work with footballers

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Speaker 2: in the AFL.

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Speaker 1: So what what was the prompt to move away from

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Speaker 1: physio and into nutrition was did something happen or it

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Speaker 1: was just an evolution.

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Speaker 3: It was an evolution.

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Speaker 2: I had a huge amount of curiosity for what we

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Speaker 2: eat and the effect that it has on our health

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Speaker 2: and for the kind of seed that was planted for me.

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Speaker 2: Went back to when I was fifteen years old. So

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Speaker 2: my dad and I were out in the Yarra Valley

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Speaker 2: and to go out on the weekends with my brother

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Speaker 2: and my dad and I and on this Sunday was

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Speaker 2: just my dad and I and we were going around

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Speaker 2: and jumping from small winery to small winery, and I

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Speaker 2: was like, I was fifteen, fourteen, fifteen, and on this afternoon,

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Speaker 2: beautiful afternoon, we're driving back. My dad lived in King

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Speaker 2: Lake at the time, and he started getting chest pain

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Speaker 2: and I could tell that he was uncomfortable, and he

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Speaker 2: kind of played it down, and we got back to

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Speaker 2: his house in King Lake and we cooked dinner and

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Speaker 2: I checked in on him. He seemed to think that

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Speaker 2: it was dissipating, not as much pain as before, and

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Speaker 2: we had.

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Speaker 3: Dinner and then I went to bed, thinking nothing of it.

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Speaker 2: But I awoke in the early hours of the night

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Speaker 2: to loud noises in the kitchen and went out and

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Speaker 2: he was having a full blown heart attack. And so

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Speaker 2: he was like he was basically making his way to

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Speaker 2: the phone call he had dial triples zero, and I

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Speaker 2: was the one that spoke to the paramedics and detailed

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Speaker 2: what was happening. And because we were in King Lake,

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Speaker 2: which at the time, and I'm sure now it's been developed,

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Speaker 2: so it's like right up through Whittlesea's probably lots lots

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Speaker 2: of neighborhoods and homes. But back then you drive from

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Speaker 2: kind of r MIT in Bundura up to King Lake.

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Speaker 2: There was not a lot in between. It was mostly

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Speaker 2: just farms, you know. South Brange was all farms. And

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Speaker 2: so they said, look, you're a long way from the

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Speaker 2: nearest hospital. We're sending a helicopter, and they sent a

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Speaker 2: helicopter to pick up my dad and I went by

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Speaker 2: road in the ambulance trailing them, and by that time

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Speaker 2: my mum and brother because my parents were divorced when

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Speaker 2: I was younger, they made their way over and to

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Speaker 2: the hospital and so we had this long wait to

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Speaker 2: find out like what's happening, and you know, ultimately the

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Speaker 2: cardiologists came out and said, your dad's had a huge

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Speaker 2: heart attack and we've we've managed to save these life.

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Speaker 2: But his life will look a little different from now on,

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Speaker 2: and he'll be on medications. And you guys, are you know,

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Speaker 2: fifteen and seventeen or eighteen, my brother, you're going to

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Speaker 2: need to really keep a close eye on your cardiovascular

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Speaker 2: health because cardiovasca disease runs in families, which is all true.

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Speaker 2: And at the time we were just grateful that dad

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Speaker 2: was alive. Yeah, of course, but in the aftermath of that,

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Speaker 2: my brother and I just kind of always had this

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Speaker 2: lingering idea that our heart disease runs in our family. So,

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Speaker 2: you know, Dad's had a hard to take at forty one,

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Speaker 2: and my dad didn't look like My dad wasn't obese,

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Speaker 2: he wasn't eating McDonald's and.

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Speaker 3: All fast food.

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Speaker 2: He was living the typical Australian lifestyle and was representative

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Speaker 2: of a kind of young Australian dad who yeah, was

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Speaker 2: working hard to make enough money to provide for his family,

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Speaker 2: probably a little overstressed. He would exercise, you know, three

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Speaker 2: times a week, and his diet was, you know, just

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Speaker 2: average austrained diet, but not a whole lot of fast food.

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Speaker 2: And so we didn't and he wasn't on any medications,

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Speaker 2: had no diagnoses, so we didn't kind of see this coming.

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Speaker 2: So it was that at this stage, it's forty one.

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Speaker 1: Wow, didude, that's so stupidly young.

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Speaker 2: It's so young, right, Yeah, Like I'm nearly forty one now,

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Speaker 2: so I'm I'm going through this weird phase now where

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Speaker 2: I'm like, holy shit, Like I'm basically at the age

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Speaker 2: of when my dad had this heart.

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Speaker 3: Attack, and.

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Speaker 2: As I said, he wasn't on like cholesterol medications or

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Speaker 2: blood pressure medications or blood glucose medications. He was on

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Speaker 2: zero prescription medications, so from the outside he kind of

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Speaker 2: had there was no sign of this coming.

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Speaker 3: And so yeah, there was this limiting We had this limiting.

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Speaker 2: Belief, my brother and I that we were destined to develop,

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Speaker 2: you know, cardiovascuar disease and probably had some dodgy genes.

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Speaker 2: And it wasn't until I got to my sort of

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Speaker 2: mid to late twenties when I really got a little

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Speaker 2: bit more interested in nutrition. And at that stage I

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Speaker 2: started to I was reading the literature, and I'd had

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Speaker 2: some training of how to read the literature in my

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Speaker 2: undergraduate but I can tell you it was nowhere near

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Speaker 2: specific enough to make sense of nutrition science. And so

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Speaker 2: I was reading, and I was confused and going and

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Speaker 2: reading like an article from a supposed reputable source and

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Speaker 2: then seeing another article and they seem very contradictory. And

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Speaker 2: I was in the position that I think a lot

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Speaker 2: of people listening are probably in and continue to be in,

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Speaker 2: especially with social media how that's evolved. Now it's scroll

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Speaker 2: and then scroll up, and you're exposed to contradictory things,

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Speaker 2: you know, within seconds. So I was like, I need

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Speaker 2: to understand how to read the primary literature here, and

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Speaker 2: that was the curiosity piece. So I went back and

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Speaker 2: applied to Deacon. Thankfully they let me in and I

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Speaker 2: did my master degree there, and my sole goal was

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Speaker 2: I want to understand how to read this literature so

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Speaker 2: I can actually understand how to eat to reduce my

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Speaker 2: risk of cardiovascular disease. And more and more I got

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Speaker 2: into it, and then you know, started seeing patients speaking

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Speaker 2: to people in my community.

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Speaker 3: I had the urge.

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Speaker 2: To start communicating, you know, through my podcast, which is

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Speaker 2: my primary kind of channel that I do that through now,

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Speaker 2: because there is so much misinformation and because it's so

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Speaker 2: it seems the research seems like it's all over the place.

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Speaker 2: And I understand that it seems like there's all sorts

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Speaker 2: of because everyone can say study show, right, So if

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Speaker 2: Bob saying study show, and Mark saying study show, and

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Speaker 2: Sandra's saying study show, but they're all saying different things, well,

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Speaker 2: clearly the research is just confused.

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Speaker 3: But it's that's not actually the case. It's that.

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Speaker 2: Contact matters, and so sure you can go and find

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Speaker 2: any study to kind of show anything, but what's often

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Speaker 2: met like left out of these conversations is the important context,

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Speaker 2: and when you do appreciate the context of the science, you.

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Speaker 3: Actually see that you know, of course, we.

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Speaker 2: Don't know everything. There's fucking there's so much stuff for

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Speaker 2: us to learn. I know that, like there are I

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Speaker 2: have so many blind spots. But there is so much

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Speaker 2: within the body of nutrition science research that has been

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Speaker 2: conducted for now, you know, one hundred plus years that.

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Speaker 3: We can we can use to be fairly.

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Speaker 2: Confident about a large part, like a large part of

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Speaker 2: the dietary pattern that we eat and ways in which

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Speaker 2: we can eat to reduce chronic disease. We don't know everything,

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Speaker 2: but we do understand the big picture. And I think

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Speaker 2: that when people go on social media, particularly today, they they're.

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Speaker 3: Left with a different feeling.

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Speaker 2: They're left with that, you know, nutrition science is just

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Speaker 2: all over the place, and then they end up probably

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Speaker 2: just throwing their arms up in the air and saying,

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Speaker 2: it's your status quo.

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Speaker 3: I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing because

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Speaker 3: no one can agree.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's the beauty of your work, right,

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Speaker 1: It's like you're kind of opening doors and I love.

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Speaker 1: What I love about you is you have an ability

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Speaker 1: to look at what somebody else has put up, but

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Speaker 1: not really be a prick about it. I like that

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Speaker 1: where you can go So this guy said this, and

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Speaker 1: here he is saying this, and then now here he

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Speaker 1: is saying this. So these things clearly, you know, this

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Speaker 1: suited him in this video, and this suits him in

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Speaker 1: this video, and he's saying things which are diametrically opposite

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Speaker 1: or opposed. You know, but you're not calling anyone an

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Speaker 1: idiot or a moron, and you're literally just presenting information.

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Speaker 1: And I like that and that's refreshing versus I don't

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Speaker 1: often do this, but I'm going to say one name

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Speaker 1: that you would know, and I think this guy's smart.

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Speaker 1: But Lane Norton obviously you know who that guy is

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Speaker 1: or no, yeah, yeah, Like I sometimes I'm like, dude,

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Speaker 1: I love this, but do you have to call everyone

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Speaker 1: an idiot or a moron? It makes me like you

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Speaker 1: less Just just like you're smart. You've got a PhD

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Speaker 1: in nutrition, you're smart, and you don't need all the

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Speaker 1: theatrics and the denner grading of everybody who doesn't think

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Speaker 1: like you for me. And I know he has a

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Speaker 1: lot of followers, but and maybe I'd have more followers

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Speaker 1: if I did more of that. I don't know, but

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Speaker 1: I don't care. I'd rather not do it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean fundamentally, it's if my personality is

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Speaker 2: not aligned to having like a malicious personal approach to

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Speaker 2: these sorts of things. I'm interested in the way that

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Speaker 2: the person's thinking. But you know, I do know Lane.

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Speaker 2: I've done videos on Lane, I've had Lane on my show,

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Speaker 2: so we have an interesting relationship.

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Speaker 3: But Lane seeing is rage. His thing is rage and rage.

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Speaker 2: It does create clicks and engagement and curiosity because he's

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Speaker 2: this crazy, you know, very outgoing scientist that is not

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Speaker 2: holding back, and that's his style. My my approach is,

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Speaker 2: I'm far more interested in just looking at how this

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Speaker 2: person is thinking.

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Speaker 3: And like you said, if I can show people how.

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Speaker 2: This person is being logically inconsistent, I think that's far

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Speaker 2: more valuable than saying, you know, this guy's a dickhead

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Speaker 2: and just like having some ad hominem attack, because then

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Speaker 2: I think you can immediately discredit my argument the moment

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Speaker 2: I attack them as a person. So I do I

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Speaker 2: actually do. It's conscious. I consciously try to make sure

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Speaker 2: what I'm saying is not a personal attack, and I

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Speaker 2: think very deeply about the way that that person is thinking.

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Speaker 2: And there's a whole lot of things I'm looking for,

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Speaker 2: like certain types of fallacies, you know.

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Speaker 3: One of the big ones is.

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Speaker 2: Like the naturalistic fallacy that if something is natural, therefore

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Speaker 2: it must be good. But you can point out examples

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Speaker 2: like heavy metals are natural, yeah, but if mercury poisoning

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Speaker 2: is that good? No, Like we can quickly realize that

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Speaker 2: these are these are fallacies or logical inconsistencies, like you say,

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Speaker 2: where on one day someone points to an animal study

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Speaker 2: because the rat study is supporting their position, but then

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Speaker 2: a week later they they discredit animal studies and say that,

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Speaker 2: you know, animal studies don't translate to humans. And it's like, well,

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Speaker 2: how can you have that position?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: And I think there are things in you know, not

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Speaker 1: just in science but in life which are kind of

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Speaker 1: generally in the space of true or helpful, but not

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Speaker 1: always you know. And it's like, so for me as

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Speaker 1: an excise scientist, when people like this kind of what's

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Speaker 1: the best way, too, right, and then fill in the

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Speaker 1: blank build strength, improve flexibility, range, movement, power, speed, muscular endurance,

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Speaker 1: aerobic endurance or whatever, or what's the best way to

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Speaker 1: eat or what's the best whatever, what's the best supplement,

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Speaker 1: and so apart from the fact that that's not a

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Speaker 1: great question, but you would then go, well, for who,

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Speaker 1: because what's going to be optimal in terms of you know,

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Speaker 1: nutrition and recovery and exercise and all these various stimuli.

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Speaker 1: All these things that I'm going to do to my

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Speaker 1: body that might work great for me would be a

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Speaker 1: fucking train wreck for Simon because Simon ain't me and

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Speaker 1: I ain't him, and so you know that that's when

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm trying to help people to understand that. And

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Speaker 1: I've had a version of this conversation many times. But like,

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Speaker 1: for example, I've got a bunch of motorbikes. I love

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Speaker 1: riding motorbikes. For me, it's actually fun and it produces

436
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 1: like a good biochemical state in my body, and for

437
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,639
Speaker 1: me it's healthy. But for somebody else it produces the

438
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 1: opposite response. It's actually doing something bad, you know. And

439
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,439
Speaker 1: it's even down to you know, the music that I

440
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: listen to might create a positive internal state for me,

441
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 1: you know, on a psychological, emotional, and physiological level, but

442
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,679
Speaker 1: the same music for someone else will create the opposite response,

443
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,360
Speaker 1: right and so it's not like is this music good

444
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 1: or bad? Is this is this approach to nutrition good

445
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 1: or bad? Is this workout good or bad? But rather

446
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 1: how does your body respond to that particular thing? And

447
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,919
Speaker 1: I think for me, I'm really excited to try and

448
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,639
Speaker 1: help people to try and understand their own body and

449
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,160
Speaker 1: the way that it acts and reacts around all these

450
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 1: different variables and go, well, you don't need to be

451
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 1: a scientist to do something scientific, So why don't you

452
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 1: leave everything else the same and for the next two

453
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,479
Speaker 1: weeks do X unless it's something ridiculous, but try that.

454
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 1: Do two weeks of X, don't change anything else. See

455
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 1: what happens. Your body will tell you. You know, we

456
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,200
Speaker 1: can do that, right right?

457
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I.

458
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 2: Think we're aligned in the way that we think about that.

459
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 2: So the way that I look at at least from

460
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 2: nutrition and to come to sort of come back to

461
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,399
Speaker 2: your point about context, because you said for who, because

462
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:22,360
Speaker 2: context is always overlooked and in nutrition it's it's for who.

463
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 2: So like, like you said, what's their goal? So like,

464
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,160
Speaker 2: if you're talking about protein or who are you talking about?

465
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,479
Speaker 2: What does their goal are?

466
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 3: They?

467
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 2: Are they an athlete that a strength athlete or are

468
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 2: they a fifty five year old woman, Like, who are

469
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 2: you talking about? And then in nutrition, if we're talking

470
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 2: about anything, whether it's a nutrient or if we're talking

471
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 2: about a food like eggs or red meat or fish

472
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 2: or beans.

473
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 3: Well, what dose are you talking about? How much are

474
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 3: we talking about?

475
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 2: And then also in nutrition it's it's it's not like

476
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 2: you can't have a placebo because when so when when

477
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 2: you make a food choice, it's usually coming at the

478
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,159
Speaker 2: cost of another food choice. There's an opportunity cost, so

479
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 2: you have to consider compared to what. Okay, if I'm

480
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:13,439
Speaker 2: going to eat two hundred calories of beans, is that

481
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 2: replacing ultra processed food or is that replacing red meat?

482
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 2: And now you start to see like this is why

483
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 2: the research can be very confusing, because even at a

484
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,400
Speaker 2: neutrienter of a food level, you have to be considering

485
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 2: for who does compared to what?

486
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:27,919
Speaker 3: Every time.

487
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 2: Or else you can find what seemed to be very

488
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:39,679
Speaker 2: conflicting studies, conflicting findings. But to your point about personalization,

489
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 2: So I think one thing that I would put forward

490
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 2: is that I think I totally agree that people should

491
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,360
Speaker 2: be able to play around and see what works best

492
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 2: for them, and we might need to find what works

493
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 2: best for them, Like what is that?

494
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 3: What are they measuring? Is it just the way they feel?

495
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 2: Or are they measuring things like in your area, they're

496
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 2: probably measuring strength or speed or something.

497
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 3: Like that as well.

498
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,719
Speaker 2: But I do think that sometimes people can hear that

499
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 2: message and think, oh, right, we're all just so different.

500
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 2: There's no general principles. I think there are general principles,

501
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 2: like general heuristics that science has to have been tested

502
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,639
Speaker 2: and we understand that they work most of the time.

503
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:26,640
Speaker 2: And then from there you personalize so understanding that that

504
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 2: studies are really telling us the average or typical response.

505
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 2: And you can imagine like a bell curve. Okay, we

506
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 2: all fall somewhere on the Bell curve, right, but we're

507
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 2: not average. I mean we could be, but we're probably

508
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 2: not average right at the middle of the Bell curve.

509
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:49,360
Speaker 2: We could be somewhere along there. So where our own experience,

510
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,399
Speaker 2: what we get from making some dietary change or some

511
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:56,199
Speaker 2: exercise change may not be represented in the average from

512
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 2: a clinical study. Does that make sense to you, Yeah,

513
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 2: So what we're putting forward at a public health recommendation

514
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 2: is based on the average. So then I think that

515
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:10,120
Speaker 2: those are generally good guidelines, and from their people personalize

516
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 2: and find a way that's working best for them, and

517
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 2: then that brings us to what is working best, like,

518
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,119
Speaker 2: how do you actually define that or measure it at

519
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 2: an individual level?

520
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 1: I love it. I've been taking a slight left turn.

521
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: But when I was when I was a kid, I

522
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 1: was morbidly obese. Right, So I was the fattest kid

523
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: in my school and my name at school was Jumbo. Right,

524
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: this is pretty political correctness. So as I sit here today,

525
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:42,239
Speaker 1: I'm eighty one or eighty two kilos, and back then

526
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 1: I was around ninety ninety one ninety two when I

527
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 1: was fourteen years old, and about five inches shorter, right,

528
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: so I was a big kid and all of this stuff. Anyway,

529
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 1: I have this without boring you and my listeners for

530
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 1: the million at the time. But this, you know, this

531
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 1: moment in time, something happened wasn't horrendous, but it was

532
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 1: just like for me psychologically, emotionally and sociologically pretty uncomfortable,

533
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 1: and I just went fuck it, like a switch flicked.

534
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 1: And that's when and then I lost a whole lot

535
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: of weight in a relatively short time. And around that

536
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: was apart from the weight loss and all those good things.

537
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 1: And you know, I was fitter, and I was healthier,

538
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: and I was more aware, but mentally, emotionally and socially,

539
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: like my world changed quite dramatically. And so I've always

540
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: been interested in the psychology for one of a better term,

541
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: the psychology of getting in shape right, and understanding the

542
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 1: role that my mind plays in physiology and whether that's

543
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: nutrition or sleep or stress, anxiety or training or adaptation,

544
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: physical you know, strength, power, all those things, but trying

545
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 1: to understand my mind around all of this. And so

546
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 1: I always had this fucking tempestuous relationship with food, right,

547
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: because for me, food was like because I've never smoked,

548
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: never drunk never, I've never been drunk, I've never had

549
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 1: a beer, I've never been high, right, so whatever that

550
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 1: means good, bad, boring. But for me, like food was

551
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 1: like my drug. I would eat food all the time

552
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 1: that I didn't need because it made me feel fucking

553
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 1: great in the moment. You know, do you think that

554
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 1: apart from the knowledge of this is this is what

555
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: food is about? Or here's some information on micros and

556
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: macros and intimate and fasting and all of these other

557
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: things that we explore. Do you ever open the door

558
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: on what I call our relationship with food, like the sociology, psychology,

559
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 1: and emotion that kind of intersects with all of that

560
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 1: and in many ways for many of us, dictates what

561
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 1: we do and how we do it.

562
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 2: I mean, what you were talking about, I think is

563
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 2: a huge reason why there's so much quote unquote yo

564
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 2: yo dieting or way. You know, diets don't don't often

565
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 2: work long term, and you see that in the research

566
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 2: when you look at weight loss, you see, you know,

567
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 2: we're actually pretty good at losing weight in the first

568
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 2: three or six months we are, and there's it's probably

569
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 2: some short term willpower, right, But then what you tend

570
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 2: to see is that you know, by two years, most

571
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 2: of that weight has come back on off and often

572
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 2: more so. I you you just mentioned there that it

573
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 2: was like a switch flicked, So I'm interested, like, what

574
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 2: have you gone back and double clicked on that and

575
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 2: thought about what was that switch? What was what was

576
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 2: underlying that that led to sustainable changes to the way

577
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 2: that you were eating.

578
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, So for me, it was uh, embarrassment, humiliation, I guess,

579
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 1: a moment of self awareness and like I just and no,

580
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 1: by the way, it was a hundred me. I didn't

581
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: get bullied or anything, but I just had this moment

582
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: in time at the year eight swimming sports where like

583
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: I had a bit of a wake up call. But

584
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 1: for me, that that very like I remember feeling. I

585
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 1: had this feeling that was and I know it's like

586
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 1: it's disproportionate when you look in the context of life

587
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 1: in the world and people with real problems which I

588
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: didn't have. But to me at that as that fourteen

589
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: year old fat kid, that was so fucking painful that

590
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: I just went, this is never happening again. I'm never

591
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: doing this again. I'm never going to have this experience again.

592
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 1: Like I associated more pain with staying in it than

593
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 1: getting out of it. So whatever I need to do

594
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: to not be this to not be. And for me, honestly,

595
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 1: it was more about aesthetics at that stage, because I

596
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 1: just to me anyway, I looked fucking hideous. And I

597
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 1: know people go, oh, no, don't say it, but that's

598
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 1: how I felt, right. So of course, the you know,

599
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 1: the physiological benefits were great, but I was actually driven

600
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 1: more by self esteem and ego or low self esteem

601
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: and and just wanting to be liked and loved and

602
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 1: valued and accepted, and to look not like I looked,

603
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 1: so that I'd be more normal. So that was for me.

604
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 1: It was like it was very much these internal emotional

605
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 1: and psychological drivers.

606
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the the pain of the embarrassment outweighed the

607
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 2: instantaneous comfort that you were getting from eating. Do you

608
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 2: do you recall go back further? Do you recall when

609
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 2: you started to gain weight? How old you were?

610
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was probably about seven or eight, and I

611
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 1: just yeah, I just I just ate everything that wasn't

612
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: nailed down.

613
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 2: And why do you think? Why do you think that

614
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 2: was that something that you've gone back and looked at.

615
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 4: That's a good question, doctor to fil So, you told

616
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 4: me at the beginning, just to be clear, grag you said, mate,

617
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,240
Speaker 4: feel free to ask me any questions everyone.

618
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 1: I totally gave him, And in fact I liked that that.

619
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 1: I not that anyone needs to know about me, but

620
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:16,919
Speaker 1: it's I did say to Simon, I said, everyone, let's

621
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 1: have a conversation. It doesn't need to be his question.

622
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: Here's an answer for an hour. No, but I think

623
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 1: they are good questions. Look, I really don't know, but

624
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:28,240
Speaker 1: I think that, like, I went to something like nine

625
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: schools and my parents we moved a lot. I was

626
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 1: an only kid. I'm still an only kid. I was

627
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: by myself a lot. My parents were amazing, but they worked,

628
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: so I would get home from school at three thirty

629
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 1: or four and they would get home at six thirty

630
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 1: or seven or whatever. So I spent a lot of

631
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:50,240
Speaker 1: time alone, and I was probably a little bit socially

632
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: disconnected and isolated, especially in the younger years kind of

633
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: you know, seven through ten, eleven, twelve, and I you know,

634
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 1: I just I just fed myself and it's like, you know,

635
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 1: that little dopamine kind of moment was pretty good, and

636
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 1: I'd feel.

637
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 2: Sure you were maybe getting some comfort, some comfort from

638
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 2: those foods in the moment.

639
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, just I mean the simplest of answers is

640
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 1: I felt good doing that. So I did that, you know,

641
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: and it's yeah, but I that's why for me, when

642
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:30,760
Speaker 1: I'm talking about weight loss for a body or body

643
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 1: composition or changing you know, changing how we look feel

644
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 1: functional that with I always say to people, yeah, I'm

645
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 1: excise scientists, but I'm also talking to you experientially and

646
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,240
Speaker 1: not just with the thousands of people that I've trained,

647
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:46,240
Speaker 1: but also as a person who is not genetically gifted,

648
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 1: does not have still does not have massive self esteem,

649
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: you know, for me to be you know, for me

650
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: to be at sixty one with not great genetics and

651
00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 1: pretty fit and pretty strong and pretty lean. For me,

652
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 1: it's and I've created a you know, an operating system

653
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,839
Speaker 1: that's automatic. So there's not a lot of willpower or

654
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:11,879
Speaker 1: sacrifice or discipline. But it's taken forever to be able

655
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 1: to figure out how to make this thing that I

656
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,359
Speaker 1: live in work really well, you know, And I think

657
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 1: that's one of the challenges is which we you know,

658
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 1: kind of talking about a minute ago, But how do

659
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 1: I build a you know, an automatic kind of operating

660
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 1: system that that just works for my body? Like, what's

661
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 1: the thing that I do sometimes when I'm in the

662
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 1: middle of inspiration or motivation or whatever that actually just

663
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 1: needs to be in all the time, non negotiable, you know.

664
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 1: So this is and when I do this thing, I

665
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 1: don't need a round of applause or a trophy or

666
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 1: an accolade. No, this is just me doing the thing

667
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 1: that I need to do. So, yeah, it's that that's

668
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,319
Speaker 1: what it's been for me. Anyway. For me, staying in

669
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 1: shape is the first book I wrote was about the

670
00:36:55,840 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 1: psychology of getting in shape, and I didn't even really

671
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 1: understand fully what I was writing about, but I knew

672
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,879
Speaker 1: that for me it was it was almost a psychological

673
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 1: emotional process with a physical outcome. Even though people would

674
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 1: think changing your body is all about your body, for me,

675
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:15,800
Speaker 1: not really.

676
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 2: No, there's a there's a huge I mean, I think

677
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 2: I think anyone listening to this will will appreciate how

678
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 2: complex this is, right, because everyone has their own story,

679
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:28,720
Speaker 2: and people are really struggling out there. People are really

680
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 2: really struggling. And sure, we live in an environment where

681
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 2: a food environment, where there is an abundance of indulgent

682
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 2: foods that hijack the reward centers of our brain. They

683
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 2: give us a reward that is unlike anything our ancestors

684
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 2: would have had, right, and.

685
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,360
Speaker 3: We don't have to work for it. We don't have

686
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 3: to work for it.

687
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 2: And so if you, I mean, this is a bit,

688
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 2: this takes us to a whole another question. But you

689
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 2: mentioned the word willpower. Yeah, And a question that I

690
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 2: often get is do we lack willpower? Is that why

691
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 2: we're unhealthy? Is that why so many people are unhealthy,

692
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,479
Speaker 2: and I don't know if I don't think I don't

693
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 2: think it is a lack of willpower.

694
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 3: You know, if you if you could take let's say

695
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 3: you take.

696
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 2: One of the healthiest populations in the world, like the

697
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:31,320
Speaker 2: elders in Japan or some of there, like some of

698
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 2: the Greeks.

699
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't.

700
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 2: I don't think that they're healthier because they have fundamentally

701
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,879
Speaker 2: that these are people that have more willpower. I think

702
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 2: they're healthier because they live in an environment that is

703
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 2: conducive to the healthy choice they're probably they live in

704
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:50,240
Speaker 2: an environment that is arguably better for mental health, psychological wellbeing.

705
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 3: They live in an environment.

706
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 2: That's better for physical activity, that doesn't have the same

707
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 2: amount of century lifestyle that we have, and they live

708
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 2: in an environment where the convenient and cheap food choice

709
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 2: is also the healthy food choice, whereas we live in

710
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:17,240
Speaker 2: an environment where people are under an enormous amount of stress.

711
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 2: So there's you know, mental health pandemic, there is you know,

712
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:32,799
Speaker 2: sky high rates of loneliness and isolation. And then on

713
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 2: top of that, so you take these people who who

714
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:38,799
Speaker 2: do not have optimal mental health and put them in

715
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 2: an environment where they're tempted by all of these very

716
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 2: high calorie dense foods that are ultra processed and contain

717
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 2: all sorts of additives that, as I said, hijack these

718
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 2: reward systems, and it's a recipe for chronic disease. And

719
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 2: so to unravel that, I agree with you. I think

720
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 2: to unravel that, A we have to think about the

721
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 2: way our society is set up to foster better mental

722
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 2: health from early age, from early age, and hand in hand,

723
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:15,799
Speaker 2: you have to change the way society is set up

724
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:20,840
Speaker 2: to reduce the century lifestyle that we're seeing, and to

725
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 2: change the food environment. Simply asking people to make the

726
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 2: healthy food choice. In a food environment like we live in,

727
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 2: it's hard, right. There is a small percentage of people

728
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,399
Speaker 2: that can develop the willpower to do that, no doubt

729
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 2: about it. You can look around, you can find examples,

730
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 2: but most people can't. And so there has to be

731
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:46,439
Speaker 2: sure there has to be effort at the individual level.

732
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 3: But in order to really.

733
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 2: Tackle what we're talking about here, there has to be

734
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 2: some very big, community wide, government led shifts as well.

735
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. What interests me too is, like you know,

736
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:04,840
Speaker 1: with will power, self control, discipline, inspiration, motivation, all of

737
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: those variables, right, it's we kind of hot hold those

738
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 1: in high regard sometimes and I always say to people, look,

739
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 1: when you're inspired and motivated, ride that wave to the beach. Right,

740
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 1: that's great. But you know, I often get introduced corporately

741
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 1: as a motivational speaker, which I fucking hate. But anyway,

742
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 1: if it gets me work, if it gets me gigs,

743
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 1: keep doing it. Right. But people are surprised when I

744
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 1: say motivation is motivation is different things too, But in

745
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 1: the context of this chat, we're talking about that emotional,

746
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:47,720
Speaker 1: heightened inspired state of motivation. You know, it comes and goes,

747
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 1: and for many people, when the motivation goes, the behaviors go,

748
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,720
Speaker 1: so therefore the results go. And then there's three months

749
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 1: of fucking around and then they're like they have of

750
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 1: some kind of revelation and then they're inspired again for

751
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 1: three weeks and then and then they're fifty and then

752
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 1: they sit in front of me and say, this wasn't

753
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:06,840
Speaker 1: my plan, And I say, can I see the plan?

754
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 1: They're like, what I go the plan of which you

755
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 1: speak grasshopper, can I see it? And there is no

756
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 1: fucking plan. There was just an idea of how things

757
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 1: would turn out, right, And so I say to people

758
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 1: all the time, you know, inspiration and motivation and even

759
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 1: discipline and self control will power all of those things.

760
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:26,719
Speaker 1: They're definitely not bad things, of course, but they're not

761
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 1: the solution. They're not the answer. I'm more interested in

762
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,280
Speaker 1: what you can do when you're not inspired and motivated.

763
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 1: I'm more interested in what you can do when you

764
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,720
Speaker 1: don't feel like it, when it's inconvenient, when it's painful,

765
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 1: when it's not fun, when it's not quick, when no

766
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 1: one's looking, when no one's giving you a fucking round

767
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 1: of applause or a medal, and it's And I know

768
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 1: this is a little bit hardcore, but there everything that

769
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,840
Speaker 1: you said about environment I agree with. But most of

770
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:57,839
Speaker 1: us don't live in that environment, so we go all right. Nonetheless,

771
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 1: I'm in this environment that isn't conducive. So in this environment,

772
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: in this reality that I do live, and we don't

773
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 1: need to be fucking Olympians or live on lettuce and

774
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:12,399
Speaker 1: meditate in a cave. But in the context of where

775
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:15,280
Speaker 1: I am, what can I do?

776
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 3: Do you know?

777
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:16,279
Speaker 2: Right?

778
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:16,839
Speaker 3: Yeah?

779
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 2: No, I know exactly so, And I think I distill

780
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 2: this down to having intention So go back to what

781
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 2: I just said about those populations, where like it's just

782
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 2: naturally they're making the healthy decision without him thinking about it.

783
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:33,840
Speaker 2: These people aren't listening to podcasts, right, it's just the

784
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:34,440
Speaker 2: way it is.

785
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 3: So I like it. I like it. I kind of compare.

786
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 2: Our society to theirs by thinking about their society as

787
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 2: a labyrinth. So a labyrinth is designed it it's actually

788
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:50,840
Speaker 2: a mindfulness practice. There's one way in and one way out.

789
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:53,919
Speaker 2: You don't have to make any decisions, just walk through

790
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:57,760
Speaker 2: it and you will you will find your way.

791
00:43:57,560 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 3: Out the other side.

792
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:02,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, their society is like a labyrinth, whereas ours is

793
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:07,360
Speaker 2: like a maze. Right, it's very easy to get lost, okay,

794
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:10,839
Speaker 2: And so you need intention, you need you need some

795
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 2: information because like it, like you said, so, our society

796
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 2: is not going to change overnight. We live in a maze.

797
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:19,359
Speaker 2: That's that's the cards we've been dealt. So you need

798
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 2: some intention so that as you get to that that juncture,

799
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,800
Speaker 2: you have a little whisper in your ear. Turn right, okay,

800
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 2: turn right, okay, turn left, and so you have some

801
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:31,800
Speaker 2: guide it so you can guide your way out of

802
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 2: the maze and achieve good health. Essentially, and I mean

803
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 2: I I developed a completely free program called the Living

804
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 2: Proof Challenge, and there's a PDF on my website. People

805
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 2: can people can go and download it. It's free, there's

806
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:53,279
Speaker 2: no catches, no cost. And the whole premise of that

807
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 2: challenge was exactly what we're talking about, Craig. It was like,

808
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 2: what are the if you distilled it down from a lifestyle,

809
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 2: what are like, what are the handful of things that

810
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 2: would be good for people to test? Okay, so they

811
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 2: kind of understand where the hell's are today, and then

812
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:13,919
Speaker 2: what are the handful of things that would be good

813
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 2: for people to in their lifestyle?

814
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 3: Adopt? Yeah, test, intervene, and then retest.

815
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:26,279
Speaker 2: Just setting people up with a very simple essentially like

816
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:31,240
Speaker 2: those whispers, to say, hey, you are your your unique,

817
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 2: so we're going to test you just so you can

818
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 2: see where you're at with these important things that we

819
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 2: know predict good long term health, and then you're going

820
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 2: to change some of your lifestyle, knowing that it doesn't

821
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:44,400
Speaker 2: have to be perfect, right, there's no point being perfect

822
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 2: for two weeks. Let's commit to being imperfect for the

823
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:52,320
Speaker 2: next three, four, five decades. Okay, we're all going to

824
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 2: have We're all going to have days where we fumble

825
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 2: whatever that we're human, and then a retest. And so

826
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:01,760
Speaker 2: you have this model where you can just continually assess

827
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 2: how you're going with very simplified kind of template of

828
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:10,799
Speaker 2: key things to measure that we know predict your risk

829
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:13,840
Speaker 2: of chronic disease and longevity. Yeah, and so that was

830
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:19,239
Speaker 2: my kind of simple, quote unquote simple solution to this

831
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 2: complex problem that you just describe so eloquently when you

832
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 2: said that this is the environment we have and it's

833
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 2: not changing.

834
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

835
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:30,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean we'll wind up in a minute

836
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,840
Speaker 1: because you're a busy man, and so I appreciate you. Fuck,

837
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 1: I've got a hard crush on you. I don't want

838
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:37,839
Speaker 1: you to be uncomfortable with that, but you're really good

839
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 1: to got a man crush. You know. Another interesting thing

840
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 1: Simon for me is when you know people can't get

841
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 1: their shit together right and they're they're struggling, and it's

842
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 1: like they start, they stop, they're in the zone, they're

843
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 1: out of the zone. They lose a bit, they gain

844
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:57,279
Speaker 1: a bit, they get fitter, they get unfitter, and then

845
00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:00,120
Speaker 1: they do nothing for six months. And that was my dad,

846
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 1: and my dad had a heart attack at seventy two

847
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:06,759
Speaker 1: and died and was revived multiple times. So he's now

848
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 1: eighty five. So that was thirteen years ago. And obviously,

849
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 1: having me as a son, I was always pestering him

850
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 1: about his habits, behavior's, lifestyle, you know, fat gut all that,

851
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:20,920
Speaker 1: because I'm a sympathetic son in love of course. But

852
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:23,720
Speaker 1: then the guy who was always like yeah, yeah, and yep,

853
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:26,960
Speaker 1: and I did yeah. You know, as soon as he

854
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 1: had his heart attack, complete paradigm shift, complete thinking shift,

855
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 1: like internal reset. And even in the hospital he was

856
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 1: saying to me when he was recovering after open heart surgery,

857
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,879
Speaker 1: which it was back then, he was saying, you need

858
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 1: to tell me what I have to do. Like he'd

859
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 1: never spoken to me like that in his life. Now,

860
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, the dude, and then obviously he

861
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 1: comes out of hospital, he loses twenty five k's, he

862
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,239
Speaker 1: starts walking every day, he goes to the gym, he

863
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 1: gets stronger, he changes his habits and behavior and outcomes.

864
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 1: He drinks les booze. It's fucking it's a new it's

865
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 1: him two point zero, right. I'm like, Buck, you could

866
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 1: have done this anytime. You didn't have to nearly die. Right.

867
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 1: That's the thing that frustrates me sometimes, mate, is that

868
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:18,880
Speaker 1: that people actually have the fucking incredible potential to do

869
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 1: amazing shit now now, but they wait for the catastrophe,

870
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 1: they wait for the terror, you know.

871
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:31,239
Speaker 2: Right, we take our health for granted. That's how I mean,

872
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 2: that's how you would distill that, right, Like where so

873
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 2: many of us wait for something to happen and then

874
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 2: we say, okay, let's get our shit together, right. I

875
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 2: Either that or you see someone very close to you

876
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 2: go through an experience where they have, you know, terrible

877
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 2: health or perhaps they even pass away from something, and

878
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:54,840
Speaker 2: that is often a driver for people. It's similar to

879
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 2: me like seeing my dad have a heart attack when

880
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:00,399
Speaker 2: I was when I was young. But what I would

881
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 2: say to the listener is that because not everyone's going

882
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 2: to have that direct experience, and we want people to

883
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 2: make changes earlier in life, I think you need to

884
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:15,800
Speaker 2: think of it like essentially savings for retirement right now,

885
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:20,759
Speaker 2: If you're going to retire at sixty sixty five, we

886
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 2: all know, like it would be far better if you

887
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:27,400
Speaker 2: start saving at twenty five thirty. Yeah, correct, Look if

888
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 2: you haven't and it's forty five great, say from now,

889
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:32,879
Speaker 2: and you'll still be in a much better position when

890
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:35,799
Speaker 2: you retire. But this is the same thing when it

891
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 2: comes to your health and we talk about your risk

892
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 2: of chronic disease or you know, your risk of having

893
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 2: a fracture, and your bone density and your risk of

894
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 2: just having a fall and losing strength as you age,

895
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:55,840
Speaker 2: we can we are all going to have a reduction

896
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:58,240
Speaker 2: enbonement of density, We're all going to have a reduction

897
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:00,360
Speaker 2: in the amount of skelidal muscle, we go going to

898
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 2: have a reduction in strength. But what we can do

899
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:08,919
Speaker 2: is we can affect the rate of that reduction dramatically.

900
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 2: And the earlier we start in life, the higher we

901
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 2: are when we start to have that that decline. And

902
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:20,320
Speaker 2: so that's the way that I think I like to

903
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 2: explain it to someone who's thinking, you know, why start

904
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:25,319
Speaker 2: when I'm thirty or forty, I'll just wait until I'm

905
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 2: fifty and have more time.

906
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, And that's health span versus lifespan as well.

907
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:38,239
Speaker 2: Right, exactly so, And for people that haven't heard of that,

908
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:40,919
Speaker 2: I mean most people probably have now. But health span

909
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:45,279
Speaker 2: is essentially speaking to the number of years you live

910
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:47,279
Speaker 2: in good health. So you can do whatever it is

911
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 2: that you love to do right as opposed to lifespan

912
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 2: just being total years lived. But some of those years

913
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:55,360
Speaker 2: you might be severely handicapped. And so we're trying to

914
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:59,359
Speaker 2: compress that window of years where you are affected by

915
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 2: disease and able to do the things you love so

916
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 2: that it's a very small period at the end of

917
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:05,879
Speaker 2: the life, and then increase all the years that you're

918
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 2: in you're in good health. But start early is to

919
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:12,879
Speaker 2: take her message there as early as you can. It's

920
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:14,960
Speaker 2: never too late, but earlier the better.

921
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:18,279
Speaker 1: And so appreciate you. I could talk to you for

922
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 1: a long time, but I won't do that to you.

923
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:23,439
Speaker 1: How can people connect with you? Find you, follow you?

924
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 1: Your podcast is the Proof, which is brilliant. How often

925
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 1: is that out?

926
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:29,480
Speaker 3: Once a week?

927
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:32,839
Speaker 1: At the moment, try harder, so do bad.

928
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:36,359
Speaker 2: You know, my dad always says room for improvement, so

929
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 2: I can hear him right now.

930
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:40,279
Speaker 1: That's all right.

931
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:42,959
Speaker 3: You know what when you said, when you said you.

932
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:45,480
Speaker 2: Do one and one a day, I did immediately. I

933
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 2: felt immediately, I felt a little lazy.

934
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:49,360
Speaker 3: So thanks for that.

935
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 2: But yeah, you can search the Proof on any podcast

936
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 2: platform or YouTube and then on if you're on Instagram.

937
00:51:57,160 --> 00:51:59,440
Speaker 2: You can just search my name at Simon Hill and

938
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:00,959
Speaker 2: you can find me there.

939
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, gid up, Hey mate, thank you so much. We'll

940
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 1: say goodbye off air, but for the moment. Thanks for

941
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:09,800
Speaker 1: being part of the You project and so nice to

942
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:11,000
Speaker 1: meet you and I appreciate you.

943
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 3: Thanks Craig, you're a legend. Appreciate you too,