1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: Just a heads up. This episode contains some adult themes 2 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:09,400 Speaker 1: from the newsroom I used to come to Today There, 3 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 1: I'm Andrew Bucklow, and wow, there is a fair bit 4 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: of news around today. Have you seen this war of 5 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 1: words between OSSI actor Guy Pierce and Oscar winner Kevin Spacey. 6 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,799 Speaker 1: I'm sure you'll be aware that Spacey's spaced allegations of 7 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:25,240 Speaker 1: sexual harassment in the past, which is always vehemently denied. 8 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: But Guy Pierce has done a podcast interview this week 9 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: and he's accused Spacey of acting inappropriately when they shot 10 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 1: a movie together in the late nineties. 11 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 2: I was young and you know, susceptible, and he targeted 12 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 2: me no question, and you know I was to say 13 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 2: to myself, and I was there with my wife, you 14 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:45,480 Speaker 2: know okay, And I used to say, the only days 15 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 2: I feel safe is when Simon Danny's on set because 16 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 2: I'm dump log a hot potato and he focuses on 17 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:52,639 Speaker 2: Simon Danny because he was ten times prettier than I am. 18 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: So Kevin Spacey released a video on x in response, 19 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: questioning why Pierce had chosen to make those comments. 20 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 3: Now took did your horse run out of gas? I mean, 21 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 3: you want to have a conversation. I'm happy to do 22 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 3: so anytime, any place. We can even do it here 23 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 3: Live on exec. You like I've got nothing to hide, 24 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 3: But guy, you need to grow up. You are not 25 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 3: a victim. 26 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: Pretty hectic, isn't it. You can get the latest on 27 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: that back and forth at news dot com at dot Au. 28 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: Now in this episode, we're actually going to take an 29 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 1: in depth look at another pretty full on story. So 30 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 1: brace yourselves. One of our team members has interviewed an 31 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: Aussie fellow who was born into a cult like church 32 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: and spent the first forty years of his life convinced 33 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: that the world was coming to an end. He since 34 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: escaped the church's clutches and has bravely opened up about 35 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: his experiences inside the religious organization. Trust me, you are 36 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: going to be shocked by some of his claims. Shatner 37 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: Malloy is in the studio with me now. He's an 38 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: award winning journalist who's part of the news dot com 39 00:01:57,240 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: dot Au team, and he's got this amazing story about 40 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: a man who escaped a cult like church right here 41 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 1: in Australia. 42 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 4: Shannon, what can you tell me about this guy? Well, 43 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 4: Ryan Kerry is like any other bloke. Really, he's a 44 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 4: trade who lives in Geelong. He's got a couple of kids, 45 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 4: he's been married for ages. The only difference is that 46 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 4: he was born into a fairly notorious, extremely conservative doomsday 47 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 4: religious sect. It's a cult like church that's been operating 48 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 4: for decades now, but kind of in hiding in plain 49 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 4: sight almost and not many people have known about it 50 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 4: until relatively recently. 51 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: So I believe that this cult like church is called 52 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:38,079 Speaker 1: the Geelong Revival Center. What can you tell me about it? 53 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 1: Who ran it? 54 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 4: So, a guy called Noel Hollins started it, like all 55 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 4: totally healthy, rational and normal things that was born in 56 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 4: the nineteen seventies. He preached a lot of doomsday beliefs. 57 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 4: He believed that Russians were going to nuke the world 58 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 4: and there'd be an armageddon, everyone would die and every 59 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 4: one would burn in hell for eternity, except for his followers. 60 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 4: He expected them to essentially entirely submit to him and 61 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:13,799 Speaker 4: his beliefs. It was a very rigid, very controlling church 62 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 4: and he ran it right up until he died a 63 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 4: few years ago. 64 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 1: So you spoke to Ryanfournews dot com dot au and 65 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 1: he got out of the church six years ago after 66 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: being part of it for forty years. Let's just have 67 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 1: a listen to some of your interview where he talks 68 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 1: about the church and pastor Noel Hollins. 69 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 5: You were pretty well isolated from the outside world, so 70 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 5: you didn't have many friends outside that group. We were 71 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 5: brought up thinking the world was in an end, so 72 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 5: we weren't really encouraged to invest too much into this life. 73 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 4: Tell me some of the things that Noel preached. What 74 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:49,839 Speaker 4: was his brand of faith for Christianity. 75 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 5: There was pennycostalism, but his way of bringing up kids 76 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 5: was he used to preach spare the rods foril the child. 77 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 5: We never saw listened to your kids or you know, 78 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 5: it was always just smacky kids. With marriage. It was 79 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 5: women should obey their husbands. It was very much everyone 80 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 5: had to speak in tons. We were the one true church. 81 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 5: Every other church were, you know, back slidden. He just 82 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 5: hated everything, hated everything else. 83 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 4: What was your view of him when you were a 84 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 4: kid and the teenager was terrified? 85 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 5: Yeah, I to honestly, I didn't love the guy. I 86 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 5: was terrified of him. You know, my mum a threat 87 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 5: growing up was like Genorty, like we were playing out. 88 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 5: It's like, I'll take you to pass Old's place, and 89 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 5: that was that was a threat going up, and we 90 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 5: were scared of going on the old slates. None of 91 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 5: us wanted to go to his place, like this is 92 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 5: his angry man from the platform, Like I was scared 93 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:50,919 Speaker 5: of me to be honest with. 94 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 4: A normal school or was it one of their skills? 95 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 5: I went to a normal school. That was interesting because 96 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 5: we were a brainwashed. Our program were easy targets for police. 97 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:03,599 Speaker 4: Was there a point at school where you were sort 98 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 4: of hearing things that were in conflict to what you 99 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 4: were being taught in these. 100 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah, but just you did the mental gymnastics 101 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,160 Speaker 5: to make it work. He actually had an ass in 102 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:18,919 Speaker 5: their mentality where you believed that the outside world was 103 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 5: bad and we were good and the devil was out 104 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:27,160 Speaker 5: there to get you, and that's how it worked. So 105 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 5: if somebody who's trying to talk you out of it, 106 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 5: you're just like, oh you, I'm being deceived by the 107 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 5: devil and that way. 108 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, that is pretty full and stuff. So it 109 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: sounds like this Noel Hollins Feller not only ran the 110 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: church but really controlled these people's lives. 111 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:45,479 Speaker 4: Absolutely every part of their life, from their finances to 112 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 4: where they lived. They people had to get permission to 113 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 4: move house, and often they weren't allowed to because he 114 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 4: didn't want them away from the church. He controlled who 115 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 4: they dated. When they married, they had to ask permission 116 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,160 Speaker 4: to marry, and he would say yes or no. He 117 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 4: arranged a lot of marriages. He seemed to have this 118 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 4: real interest in matching people up inside the church. You 119 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 4: really weren't allowed to have a life outside of the church. 120 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 4: You had to stay within its walls and its confines, 121 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 4: and that's how he controlled people. He was power hungry. 122 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 4: He felt that he was one of God's apostles on 123 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 4: earth and that his church was the true and only church. 124 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 1: Is it right as well that he kind of played, 125 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 1: I guess not a police role, but he was the 126 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: guy who settled disputes. 127 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 4: Inside the church. Absolutely. He dissuaded anyone from going to 128 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 4: police for any criminal matters at all. That included were told, 129 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:43,479 Speaker 4: domestic violence, child sexual abuse. He would kind of decide 130 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 4: what punishment, if any, there would be. There's been reports 131 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 4: over the past few years about how this played out 132 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 4: in really sinister and disturbing ways. We've seen court cases 133 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 4: in recent times of quite prominent figures within the church 134 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 4: being jailed for child sexual abs abuse, and it emerging 135 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 4: during the course of those court proceedings that victims had 136 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 4: gone to their parents, and their parents had gone to 137 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 4: Noel Hollands and he had done nothing. So he really 138 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 4: he played every role that you would normally expect in society, 139 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 4: but as a one man kind of hate machine, I guess. 140 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: And he died in twenty twenty four, This Noel Hollans. 141 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: But is the church still ongoing? It is, it still 142 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: continues to operate. It's in the suburbs in Geelong. It 143 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: looks like any other building, just a pretty plain, modest 144 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: red brick building and it's still got the same number 145 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: of followers. Well, Ryan Carey, how you spoke to He 146 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: was in the church for forty years before he left 147 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen. In just a moment, we're going to 148 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: find out what the catalyst was for his decision to 149 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: leave and how his family members reacted when he walked away. 150 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: I'm Chattington News dot com dot a Shanna Maloy. He's 151 00:07:57,240 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: done an amazing interview with Ryan Carey, a man who 152 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 1: was part of a co like church in Victoria, for 153 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: forty years. Ryan left the Geelong Revival Center just before 154 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: COVID kicked off Shannon. Why did Ryan decide to leave. 155 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 4: There were a few things that began to cause him 156 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 4: doubt about some of the beliefs he'd been raised with. 157 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 4: But he said to me that one of the I 158 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 4: guess the real sort of catalysts was that he was 159 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 4: seeing how people were being treated when they had legitimate 160 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 4: health concerns. Another control point for Noel Hollins was people 161 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 4: not going to doctors and instead just being told to 162 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 4: pray harder when they were sick. He was particularly focused 163 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 4: on people with mental health issues. He sort of didn't 164 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 4: believe that mental health existed, and so there were people 165 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 4: in the church that needed psychiatric medications in order to 166 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 4: be healthy and stable and functioning, but were banned from 167 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:51,959 Speaker 4: doing so. And Ryan saw this play out and felt 168 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 4: really uncomfortable about sort of being a submissive part of 169 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 4: this culture of abuse. And then, of course he was 170 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 4: a young father and was watching the environment his children 171 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,559 Speaker 4: were growing up in the environment that he grew up in, 172 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 4: and didn't want to be part of that anymore. 173 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: Ryan opened up to you about how his friends and 174 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 1: family reacted once he decided to leave the church. Let's 175 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: have a listen to that. 176 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 5: A minute I walked out the door, my relationship with 177 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 5: my family sort of ended. There was brief contacts, that's 178 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 5: that's passed away now. So also like you've gone from 179 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 5: environment where these people were like your family. You saw him, 180 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:38,959 Speaker 5: you know, minimum six hours a week. You're in each 181 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:41,839 Speaker 5: other's pockets. You caught each other, brother and sister. In 182 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 5: the minute you don't want to go anymore, they'll they'll 183 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 5: pass the other side of the streight to avoid you. 184 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 5: You're faster dead to him. 185 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 1: So brave of Ryan to speak out like this. But 186 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: I guess that's a question I have. Why did Ryan 187 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:57,719 Speaker 1: decide to speak to you about this church? What's he 188 00:09:57,800 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: hoping to get from this? 189 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 4: He's really passionate about raising awareness of what he calls 190 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 4: religious coercive control. We've had a really important conversation in 191 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 4: Australia in recent times about coercive control in domestic relationship settings. 192 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 4: His belief is that there's no difference that when you 193 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 4: feel like you are beholden to a religious organization that 194 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,079 Speaker 4: you have essentially no rights, or you made to feel 195 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 4: like you have no rights, it should be treated no differently, 196 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 4: and he wants us to have a conversation as a 197 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 4: country about the importance of obviously religious freedom, the freedom 198 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 4: for you to believe what you want to believe and 199 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 4: to worship how you want to worship, but not for 200 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 4: religious organizations to have the freedom to abuse you. He's 201 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 4: raising awareness of this by speaking out about his experiences. 202 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 4: It's a little bit easier to do now that Noel 203 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 4: Hollins is dead. The risk of defamation has reduced, and 204 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 4: he just wants to start a conversation. But particularly he's 205 00:10:55,440 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 4: really keen to let people know that this is one 206 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 4: of these types of organizations. There are many others across 207 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 4: the country that might look like pretty normal, pretty innocent 208 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 4: religious organizations, but that have these quite extreme, quite fringe 209 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 4: views that control people's lives and make their lives worse. 210 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: Well, congratulations to Ryan for speaking out. Definitely is going 211 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:23,559 Speaker 1: to spark a conversation. Great work by Yushannon. Thank you 212 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 1: so much for chatting to us today, and thank you 213 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: for listening to From the Newsroom. Follow us, subscribe to 214 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 1: from the Newsroom 215 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:31,720 Speaker 4: Wherever you get your podcasts.