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Speaker 1: A pod Shape production photo record. Don't try and make

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Speaker 1: you uncomfortable.

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Speaker 2: Yes, craph.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back to the Clink season sixteen. I tell you what,

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Speaker 3: it's been a phenomenal season. Every guest has just been

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Speaker 3: amazing and I cannot begin to thank you the listener

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Speaker 3: enough Sideway Surf once again, a massive shout out to

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Speaker 3: you guys jumping on board and always supporting us pod Shape.

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Speaker 4: We appreciate you.

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Speaker 3: And remember, guys, get into Sideway Surf to get all

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Speaker 3: your clink ink apparel.

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Speaker 4: Be the best you can be.

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Speaker 3: Today's guest is a gentleman, somebody whom I have true

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Speaker 3: respect for.

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Speaker 4: A man at.

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Speaker 3: Eighty two years of age, has lived a phenomenal life,

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Speaker 3: a life that is truly etched in Australian history. He

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Speaker 3: has been known as one of the notorioust most notorious

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Speaker 3: shall I say, bank robbers Escapes, and is an award

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Speaker 3: winning author. This man today is none other than John Killick.

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Speaker 4: Welcome back to the Clink.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much, Brent. That's quite an introduction. And

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Speaker 2: I really enjoyed the ones we did that that was

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Speaker 2: very early and the yeah you know the Clink, and

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Speaker 2: I think we did two episodes and we had such

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Speaker 2: so many laughs that I mean, I've got it. I

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Speaker 2: actually collected him. I'm going to go through because I

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Speaker 2: remember we were in fits laughter about that railway rober

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Speaker 2: and stuff that.

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Speaker 3: I honestly, yeah, look and rightfully, so I mean, look

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Speaker 3: what a life you've lived.

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Speaker 4: You are the last of the ogs.

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Speaker 3: And I do say that, you know, respectfully, And I

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Speaker 3: think to everybody out there, today's.

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Speaker 4: Story is most definitely not about glorifying.

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Speaker 3: But this is John's story and as everybody knows, I

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Speaker 3: don't think we need to go backwards. One hundred and

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Speaker 3: ninety seven guests, sixteen seasons over for million downloads. Everybody

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Speaker 3: knows what the Clink is about. And this season is

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Speaker 3: about giving people the right tools to bettering their life. You,

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Speaker 3: my friend, you mate, you know, to go from a

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Speaker 3: serious lifetime of crime and at the top of the

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Speaker 3: food chain.

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Speaker 4: I don't think it gets much heavier than bank rubber.

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Speaker 3: You know, escape the only person in Australia to escape

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Speaker 3: via a helicopter out of a maximum security prison, mind you,

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Speaker 3: a newer maximum security prison, the one that they didn't

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Speaker 3: think anyone was going to get out.

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Speaker 4: Of at that stage.

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Speaker 3: John, you have lived a life and look for the

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Speaker 3: listeners out there that may not know everything about you,

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Speaker 3: Let's take them back, give them a little bit of

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Speaker 3: your journey, and we'll come forward to the amazing man

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Speaker 3: that you've become.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I certainly will. And you're right, we're not glamorizing it.

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Speaker 2: It's a hell of a story. I was a bad

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Speaker 2: guy in many ways, did a lot of bad things.

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Speaker 2: And there's I didn't think I think about thirty years ago,

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Speaker 2: I didn't think it was ever possible, and I'll be

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Speaker 2: able to be sitting talking to a guy like you

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Speaker 2: and talking about the good things because I hadn't done

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Speaker 2: a lot of good things at that stage, or ravish

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Speaker 2: Saturday by the bad stuff. And so if you go

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Speaker 2: put it in his right perspective, I think there's good

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Speaker 2: and bad in all this. Now. Up until I was

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Speaker 2: seven and eight, I truly say, Brent that I was

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Speaker 2: a good kid, you know, as a bookish kid. I

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Speaker 2: was often sick, I didn't go to school. A lot

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Speaker 2: failed me, and I made it. I had a hell

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Speaker 2: of a home life. I'd been adopted. My father threw

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Speaker 2: it at me all the time that I was you know,

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Speaker 2: black Barsted and alad. He didn't. He used to get drunk,

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Speaker 2: and he was an old boxer and a tough guy.

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Speaker 2: I had the most of the people in the in

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Speaker 2: the neighborhood really terrified. And so to see your mother

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Speaker 2: deteriorate the way she did, living living a life for

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Speaker 2: fear in those days, they couldn't just pack up and

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Speaker 2: believe it. Didn't didn't have the facilities that we've got

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Speaker 2: through these days. So pretty tough life. But I was

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Speaker 2: a good kid, never thought of crime. But I can

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Speaker 2: remember hiding under the house in the middle of the night,

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Speaker 2: coming out like it's three in the morning, you know,

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Speaker 2: after dad had gone to sleep. So when my mother

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Speaker 2: she actually killed herself. She committed selling sign on a

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Speaker 2: seven eight and I left home that day. Now, I

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Speaker 2: was ill prepared. I was a seventeen old kid, but

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Speaker 2: in a lot of ways I was four because I

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Speaker 2: didn't know anything about anything, and I just lived in

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Speaker 2: a world and books and bloody cereals and stuff like that.

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Speaker 2: So first night out and got into because I couldn't

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Speaker 2: afford to night, I got into a boarding house and

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Speaker 2: had to share a room with a guy, and he

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Speaker 2: was the wrestler. He was on the way to the Queensland.

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Speaker 2: And next thing, he's tried to section assign me, you know,

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Speaker 2: and you know, it just threw me into a sort

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Speaker 2: of hate sort of thing. I said, Okay, it's me

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Speaker 2: against the world, you know. And that was the attitude

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Speaker 2: I took. And you wouldn't even possible at a seven year

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Speaker 2: old could transform so quickly, but I did. I actually

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Speaker 2: robbed that guy. He had it. He was ripping off

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Speaker 2: the security and he's bas about it to me, and

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Speaker 2: he he apologized what he did. He never tried it

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Speaker 2: on me again. But he he had five different bank

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Speaker 2: books on different names and so even and you had

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Speaker 2: so security choos and yeah, he yes, So I stole

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Speaker 2: on him. And when he was packing and I'd fois

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Speaker 2: senior sin and when I had fifty to fifty pounds,

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Speaker 2: fifty pounds was febit of money in those days that

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Speaker 2: there was two weeks wages for the everage guy.

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Speaker 4: And yes, the settling was playing well back.

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Speaker 2: Then, No, not only played abound two pounds fifty you know.

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Speaker 2: Oh he was doing well, doing real well. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: don't know what he was doing and he was, yeah,

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Speaker 2: well he he had five different sendling cans. But when

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Speaker 2: I did a just any time. And I got into

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Speaker 2: a different boarding house and I just threw all the

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Speaker 2: after all forms in a wasteboat. Well, the landlord lady

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Speaker 2: was a bit of a snoops she found him. So

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Speaker 2: when I come back to the cops are waiting for him.

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Speaker 2: And that was my first bank rubbing, so his first crime,

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Speaker 2: first bank Robbie. So I started off from the banks

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Speaker 2: and went phone in the shoulder of boys boy's shoulder

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Speaker 2: and that was that was pretty heavy. I was talking

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Speaker 2: about sexual assault. We all had to shower together, and

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Speaker 2: I was They were worried about people coming up at night,

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Speaker 2: and you know, I never heard of anyone. Just it's

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Speaker 2: just all foreign of me. And of course the Royal

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Speaker 2: Commissions have shown us what went on on those boys,

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Speaker 2: including that one, including in our instruments. So that was

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Speaker 2: an education for me. And I hooked up with two

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Speaker 2: young guys a bit older than me, and we're doing

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Speaker 2: shoplifting and that's some incredible incidence there. And we used

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Speaker 2: to go in order marland and run out, you know.

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Speaker 2: And so we're living well and we're ruining well because we're

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Speaker 2: all fast runners. But a big Greek guy I called

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Speaker 2: my mate and my mate had my best jumper on

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Speaker 2: and the Greek guy bashing around a bit and took

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Speaker 2: the jumper off him. He said, you want you to

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Speaker 2: jump a back, come back and paying for the mail,

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Speaker 2: and I was really pissed about that. So there was

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Speaker 2: small time stuff. Then we got caught doing a break

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Speaker 2: and we got a way of it. But my mate

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Speaker 2: all the clothes he tried to trying to hok the

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Speaker 2: clothes in a Portman shop, which people do, and of

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Speaker 2: course they knew it wasn't his, and they let him go.

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Speaker 2: He gave us up. They other two guys. He gave

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Speaker 2: us up. And so I went out to Long Bay

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Speaker 2: and and I think I should get at a class

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Speaker 2: now because people we see now all the time shop jobs, newspapers,

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Speaker 2: poor trying, jails the way that they perceive it to be,

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Speaker 2: you know, phone calls, visits, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: Good food, yeah, you know all is. And when I

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Speaker 2: went there it was three of us liked in the cell.

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Speaker 2: It was line's off at nine. There were no two bos,

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Speaker 2: no radios, no books. Couldn't get a book. You might

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Speaker 2: have got a cowboy book, a western if you're lucky somewhere,

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Speaker 2: but most times you had nose eats, just dirty old

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Speaker 2: blankets and a jungle hot water, a jungle of old, dirty,

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Speaker 2: rusty water. And in the corner you had a ship

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Speaker 2: bucket that was there used as a toilet. Now this, this,

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Speaker 2: this is incredible when you look at it, how ancient

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Speaker 2: it was. I mean we were nineteen sixty nine and sixty.

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Speaker 3: Can I just ask you, John, I want to just

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Speaker 3: just on that because at eighteen years of age, as

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Speaker 3: you know, I was introduced to Long Bay and it

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Speaker 3: was in what from someone my age on forty eight, Now,

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Speaker 3: it was a very dangerous place at that stage. You know,

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Speaker 3: you had some some very colorful characters in there, and

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Speaker 3: life was still at ten years, so blokes.

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Speaker 4: Were doing a lot of bricks.

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Speaker 3: But I, you know, as a young offender, refused to

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Speaker 3: go to young offenders and went.

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Speaker 4: Over the wall to the sip.

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Speaker 3: Obviously you had to be doing over two years to

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Speaker 3: go into the sip, and I got five with the

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Speaker 3: two at eighteen years of age.

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Speaker 4: So was it similar in the sip? And please tell

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Speaker 4: me if I'm wrong, But I'm.

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Speaker 3: Not guessing that the M double R was open then

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Speaker 3: and it was obviously what may have been known as

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Speaker 3: the R I c UH and the R m r P.

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Speaker 2: Is that right? Yeah? They that that was a women's

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Speaker 2: child m r P. It was a women's show, right Yeah.

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Speaker 4: They had the SIP. The sip is where you went,

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Speaker 4: Is that right?

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Speaker 2: Ah? Yeah, the ship was where I went. But it

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Speaker 2: was also a remand you had a M B were

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Speaker 2: a remand change and then you had the range of

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Speaker 2: one and two range for for guys under twenty three

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Speaker 2: and then the other over twenty three if you're under

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Speaker 2: twenty three or class for boy. The boys were the

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Speaker 2: ones that cause the most trouble. But to being in

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Speaker 2: there at eighteen, it wouldn't been pretty tough because Roswell

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Speaker 2: went in at seven eighten Ronnie Issue would have went

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Speaker 2: into Pendries and I was down there when he came

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Speaker 2: in at seven. I went in at seven, and you've

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Speaker 2: gone into DAYA and had to look at the track

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Speaker 2: record we left after that. I mean, they had no

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Speaker 2: intention in those days of rearbilitanious and you know, and

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Speaker 2: they just don't get it. I was talking to someone

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Speaker 2: the other day that actually works to see and then

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Speaker 2: you know that they just don't know what to do.

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Speaker 2: People getting out of jail and they're they're still on drugs.

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Speaker 2: They haven't done my programs because they don't give them

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Speaker 2: any programs these days. And you know, she said, the

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Speaker 2: public want am in. I said, this is where we're

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Speaker 2: falling down. We should educate the public because nobody tells

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Speaker 2: the police that there's guys about one hundred thousand dollars

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Speaker 2: for each person to keep in there. Now, you's howth

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Speaker 2: while the populations. So I got out and I got

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Speaker 2: out of about changes the prison population increased. My bad,

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Speaker 2: three thousand.

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Speaker 3: Look at the look at the jails and the size

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Speaker 3: of the jails that they've opened up now to look

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Speaker 3: at you know, like they're putting what two and three

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Speaker 3: thousand inmates into these jails now.

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Speaker 2: Unbelievable, and they're all privatized.

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Speaker 4: That's right, one or two major jails that would hold

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Speaker 4: on maybe a thousand.

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Speaker 2: Well, Brent, ask yourself, if you're a company, are you

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Speaker 2: going to run something out of loss?

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Speaker 3: You know, I mean look at Parkley, talk about loss.

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Speaker 3: We've lost lives, we've lost everything you can.

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Speaker 2: And used to realization. Yeah, you know, it's good jail.

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Speaker 2: I went there in eighty seven and it's just nobody

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Speaker 2: wants to go to park anymore. In fact, the new

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Speaker 2: Dead edd and Gang, Well this isn't it. And so

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Speaker 2: the thing is too that they changed the remand laws

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Speaker 2: and this is what we do in your South Wins.

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Speaker 2: I don't know about the other states, but we seem

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Speaker 2: to be really bad at it. What they've done is

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Speaker 2: like the golden shread that runs right. For the law

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Speaker 2: has always burnt that you're innot until you proven bilding.

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Speaker 2: Now I noticed some there's some crimes. You can't get

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Speaker 2: by alone. But they used to get by along a

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Speaker 2: lot of stuff now and particularly young guys coming in

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Speaker 2: get by off for sure. But now they've changed it.

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Speaker 2: And it's just even what they've done, and that's why

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Speaker 2: there so many people coming in. They've changed it. So

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Speaker 2: you have to show that it's in the interest of

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Speaker 2: the community for you to be given by right now,

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Speaker 2: what that means if somebody is a big businessman and

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Speaker 2: he's sexy assaulting people and this could happen and he's

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Speaker 2: got three three bloody factories or something, it's any interesting

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Speaker 2: community for him to be out there until he's trial

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Speaker 2: to keep those people in employment. But you get a

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Speaker 2: kid out there at West who's never had a job,

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Speaker 2: burning bold in a bit of drugs, can't root or right.

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Speaker 2: How is he going to show that it's in the

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Speaker 2: public interest. He can't do it. It is not in

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Speaker 2: the pot. So he goes in for pennish it. He

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Speaker 2: probably shouldn't have Beuren in there. It's probably going to

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Speaker 2: walk out or get a bond or bloody not girly,

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Speaker 2: and anything can happen to He's at risk when he's

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Speaker 2: in jail, he's at risk. He goes in there, he's

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Speaker 2: at risk, and it looked the system has always been.

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Speaker 2: I always say this has always been a two chio

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Speaker 2: system always, And I say, you know, I speak in

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Speaker 2: the universities and that occasionally, and I always get across

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Speaker 2: the law students. What you're doing is great, and I'm

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Speaker 2: not knocking. I'm not knocking the people that that lets

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Speaker 2: you ex judges, X, commission as a police, et cetera,

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Speaker 2: et cetera. A lot of high ranking people, forensic people,

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Speaker 2: and they're telling you from one side and you're learning

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Speaker 2: it from one side. And that's the way it always

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Speaker 2: was with academics. But those academics, that's why we fell

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Speaker 2: under that because those academics weren't aware of the double

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Speaker 2: side of standards and the double side of system. Now

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Speaker 2: guys like me are getting up there and running in

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Speaker 2: and Russell Houston and something. We're saying, Look, this is

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Speaker 2: the way it really is. There's two signs to it.

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Speaker 2: And you know where they come up and they always say, John,

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Speaker 2: we love your wages. We really do it.

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Speaker 3: Look, I think I think the lived experience and look

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Speaker 3: you hear me say it one hundred thousand times through

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Speaker 3: all my you know.

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Speaker 4: Dealings with the cling. It's just so valuable.

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Speaker 3: And I think the contribution that yourself and many others

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Speaker 3: like you are able to give to the generation coming through,

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Speaker 3: and more from an awareness point of view, Look, we

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Speaker 3: do the crime.

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Speaker 4: We do the time. We're aware that there's opportunity to

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Speaker 4: get caught.

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Speaker 3: If you're going to commit a crime, that's life, and

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Speaker 3: no one's in denial of consequences for your actions. So please,

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Speaker 3: guys don't think that, you know, for anybody's just come

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Speaker 3: along and heard this episode, Oh yeah, well you should

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Speaker 3: be in jailous.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we get all that.

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Speaker 3: That's all this is moving forward, you know, that's that's

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Speaker 3: enabled us to be where we are today.

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Speaker 4: To be able to write.

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Speaker 3: Books, to be able to have these conversations create a platform.

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Speaker 3: Have we not been in these places and found our

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Speaker 3: voice to be able to help.

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Speaker 4: Others, then nothing's changing, you know.

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Speaker 3: Whilst ever, you're getting men like ourselves and women out

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Speaker 3: there that are able to share their experience, the good,

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Speaker 3: the bad, the ugly, with acceptance of.

300
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Speaker 4: Who we are.

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Speaker 3: In no way, shape or form that we're seeking any

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Speaker 3: sympathy or asking for We.

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Speaker 4: Fucked up, we did what we did.

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Speaker 3: You know, what we bring to the table is invaluable

305
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Speaker 3: today as lessons to enable the next generation to understand,

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Speaker 3: whether it be through law, whether it be through support networks,

307
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Speaker 3: mental health space, or just that bloke or woman that's

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Speaker 3: maybe thinking about going down that road.

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Speaker 4: It's not worth it. You know, there is so much

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Speaker 4: more to life.

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Speaker 3: Unfortunately, you God Love have come out shining bright at

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Speaker 3: the latter part of your life.

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Speaker 4: And gosh, I'll tell you what, at eighty two years

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Speaker 4: of age, made far.

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Speaker 2: Out of getting here.

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Speaker 4: Well, if I get the sixty, I'll be happy. Made

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Speaker 4: of forty eight and ship myself ion't make it a fifty.

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Speaker 3: But you know, at the end of the day, it

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Speaker 3: really is when you look back, you think, Okay, if

320
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Speaker 3: I've left.

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Speaker 4: A footprint in this earth, which you have and you will.

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Speaker 3: And yes it started on a sour note, but what

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Speaker 3: a great informative footprint that you forever have left through

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Speaker 3: your lived experience to help others and benefit and grow.

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Speaker 2: Well, well, thank you, Brandon. And I think you're doing

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Speaker 2: the same with these programs, because see I try. Well, look,

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Speaker 2: the thing is, it's there's the same with the books.

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Speaker 2: I've been told by a lot of people, the books

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Speaker 2: that I've written, Nile's gow on the you know, stay

330
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Speaker 2: on the library, that the shelves are true crime, because

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Speaker 2: straining true crime. Because I've told it the way it is.

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Speaker 2: I've got a photographic memory, and I've said I didn't memory,

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Speaker 2: I didn't need girl, and I've told it. You go

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Speaker 2: back in a year and ask me where I was

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Speaker 2: or what I was doing. I go back in the

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Speaker 2: year of sixty seven, asked me who I was, you know,

337
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Speaker 2: and it's I just didn't realize I had this a

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Speaker 2: billion until later in life when I was writing books

339
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Speaker 2: and I realized and and somebody like I say to

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Speaker 2: somebody and will give me and they say where were you?

341
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Speaker 2: And say seventy eight, seventy eight one. I remember exactly

342
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Speaker 2: where I was because that's when I won win the

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Speaker 2: Melbourne Cup because Army was now a small backwards and

344
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Speaker 2: I know exactly where I was, and I used to

345
00:17:21,921 --> 00:17:24,640
Speaker 2: do it through Melbourne Cups to a degree. But you know,

346
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Speaker 2: I can impatally put myself in a spot when we're

347
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Speaker 2: talking about hate Pishan or Pentridge or Yatler. When I

348
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Speaker 2: went over there, I know what month I was there,

349
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Speaker 2: who was doing with what I was doing. Now, that's

350
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Speaker 2: that's not going to last rever. But at eighty two,

351
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Speaker 2: I'm getting out as much as I can. I'm working

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Speaker 2: on another two books now, and I've got seven books

353
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Speaker 2: out there, and I'm having to maybe leave a dozen

354
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Speaker 2: books behind. And most of those books are going to

355
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Speaker 2: be pretty good. They're going to be a reference guy

356
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Speaker 2: in the way it used to be. And so that'll

357
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Speaker 2: be my achievement. That'll be my achievement.

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Speaker 3: And there's no more John Killy going out with the

359
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Speaker 3: bang in the final moments of his life.

360
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Speaker 2: Well, somebody trying to talk me into that. Somebody trying it.

361
00:18:05,321 --> 00:18:07,001
Speaker 2: They trying to turn them into it. You know what

362
00:18:07,041 --> 00:18:08,160
Speaker 2: they're trying to get ready to.

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Speaker 4: Do, go and rob a bank.

364
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Speaker 2: And however old you, they said, when you're threw one hundred,

365
00:18:14,001 --> 00:18:15,400
Speaker 2: don't even put the book on the counter.

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Speaker 4: So that I don't have banks. We know banks to god,

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Speaker 4: that's what I said.

368
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Speaker 2: You have to rob a robot or something.

369
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Speaker 4: Man, you've got to go twenty k's to try and

370
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Speaker 4: find a bank. You can go and talk that you're

371
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Speaker 4: not going to travel twenty k's to rob a bank.

372
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Speaker 2: They're putting at ms everywhere, and you've got to pay

373
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Speaker 2: money to get the money out. Ye money out. Oh

374
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Speaker 2: but that was my attitude when I started robbing banks.

375
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Speaker 2: Because when I went into jail, and it was pretty tough,

376
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,360
Speaker 2: like I said in ninety six, and and I like

377
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,321
Speaker 2: an all fight and bloody young guy. I got raped

378
00:18:50,360 --> 00:18:53,001
Speaker 2: in the showers a couple of days after I was there,

379
00:18:53,041 --> 00:18:57,600
Speaker 2: and like it, I realized that guy said to me,

380
00:18:57,640 --> 00:18:59,480
Speaker 2: even though I want to fight because my old man

381
00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:00,880
Speaker 2: told me to fight, he said, I don't think you

382
00:19:00,961 --> 00:19:02,680
Speaker 2: can heal this on. He says, guys, yeah, but you

383
00:19:02,761 --> 00:19:04,761
Speaker 2: want to on the bank, and just don't go in

384
00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,001
Speaker 2: this oldest women don't do this. And I learned a

385
00:19:07,001 --> 00:19:10,041
Speaker 2: lot from preblem and I took notice because I realized

386
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Speaker 2: what was at risk?

387
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,281
Speaker 4: What was the stake that I here in the corner

388
00:19:13,321 --> 00:19:17,240
Speaker 4: of that yard. Mate, So you've got full vision. They

389
00:19:17,281 --> 00:19:18,481
Speaker 4: ever sit with your back open?

390
00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:21,200
Speaker 2: Well, the time I didn't. I played chess and the

391
00:19:21,241 --> 00:19:23,920
Speaker 2: blake German guy hit me over the bundy. When I

392
00:19:23,921 --> 00:19:25,441
Speaker 2: burn him hit me over them. We're in a fight,

393
00:19:25,921 --> 00:19:28,241
Speaker 2: but disposed. He used to let it down there anyway.

394
00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:33,001
Speaker 2: The thing is that I decided, all right, you know,

395
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,440
Speaker 2: if I'm going to be a crim and this is

396
00:19:35,481 --> 00:19:38,121
Speaker 2: when I try and get across the problem. People don't

397
00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:40,240
Speaker 2: understand and say, well, you're going to jail, white, and

398
00:19:40,281 --> 00:19:42,520
Speaker 2: you learn from that. But when you're going in there

399
00:19:42,521 --> 00:19:46,081
Speaker 2: and they're living those okay conditions and you get out,

400
00:19:46,120 --> 00:19:47,360
Speaker 2: you've got a bit of a chip in your sholder

401
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:51,281
Speaker 2: and on aly that you've had to live a curtive

402
00:19:51,321 --> 00:19:54,761
Speaker 2: efforts that is upside down. It's the eternal opposite to

403
00:19:54,801 --> 00:19:58,281
Speaker 2: what we're living out here. I mean outside, if people

404
00:19:58,321 --> 00:20:01,680
Speaker 2: see somebody getting bashed, they'll even try and stop it,

405
00:20:01,761 --> 00:20:03,640
Speaker 2: or I'll ring up the police. But but you know,

406
00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:08,761
Speaker 2: in jail, if around.

407
00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:10,280
Speaker 3: Walk away your business justiness, don't get involved, because next

408
00:20:10,360 --> 00:20:11,400
Speaker 3: you'll be the one that get stabbed there.

409
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:13,641
Speaker 2: That's right, and someone gets stabbed to there, it might

410
00:20:13,681 --> 00:20:17,001
Speaker 2: be a twenty weakness if nobody's saying it. Well, and

411
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,481
Speaker 2: that's the cad. And if you go against that cad,

412
00:20:19,521 --> 00:20:21,880
Speaker 2: you're a dog. You're on protection, you're on a check

413
00:20:21,961 --> 00:20:24,801
Speaker 2: straight away. And there's so many people now on protection

414
00:20:25,001 --> 00:20:29,640
Speaker 2: in jails because they get involved in drugs. The drug

415
00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:31,281
Speaker 2: culture changes a lot of stuff.

416
00:20:31,761 --> 00:20:33,561
Speaker 4: Well, isn't it funny you say that? But too and

417
00:20:33,721 --> 00:20:34,600
Speaker 4: and look.

418
00:20:36,921 --> 00:20:40,880
Speaker 3: I can I can honestly speak from my own personal experience.

419
00:20:40,921 --> 00:20:44,200
Speaker 3: You'll never find anything where any man or woman has

420
00:20:44,241 --> 00:20:47,601
Speaker 3: done a second day of jail over me or anyone.

421
00:20:47,961 --> 00:20:50,441
Speaker 3: But yet someone will turn around and say they don't

422
00:20:50,521 --> 00:20:53,160
Speaker 3: like you, he's no good, he's done this, or he

423
00:20:53,241 --> 00:20:55,161
Speaker 3: bailed out, like you.

424
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:59,001
Speaker 4: Got five blakes about the five out? Ya, yep, we're

425
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,041
Speaker 4: all ready to go glove. Well, why don't you come

426
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,880
Speaker 4: and have a crack one on one? Well, what is it?

427
00:21:03,921 --> 00:21:05,360
Speaker 4: Why is why is that bloke week?

428
00:21:06,281 --> 00:21:08,361
Speaker 3: If he goes to another wing, not bailout, but goes

429
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,840
Speaker 3: to another wing, right, if he's going to get fived

430
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,001
Speaker 3: out and gets the option to either fucking get jump

431
00:21:13,041 --> 00:21:14,841
Speaker 3: and stabbed or you can go to another wing.

432
00:21:15,041 --> 00:21:17,561
Speaker 4: Are you weak? No, you're not fucking weak. You used

433
00:21:17,561 --> 00:21:18,161
Speaker 4: your head and you've.

434
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:23,521
Speaker 2: Got the chuck swing and Gorman on projection, and I

435
00:21:23,521 --> 00:21:25,961
Speaker 2: saw him trying. They're carrying two blades on their back,

436
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:30,241
Speaker 2: training all day. They did beat any children, but they've

437
00:21:30,241 --> 00:21:34,440
Speaker 2: gone on a chection because I drunks or whatever it is.

438
00:21:34,481 --> 00:21:35,840
Speaker 2: But they would be killed.

439
00:21:36,681 --> 00:21:39,440
Speaker 3: But I remember John, if you couldn't produce paperwork, if

440
00:21:39,481 --> 00:21:41,200
Speaker 3: you put someone on the dog, and I've seen it

441
00:21:41,241 --> 00:21:43,360
Speaker 3: with my own eyes with Paulie Martin and all that

442
00:21:43,441 --> 00:21:46,241
Speaker 3: old crew back in nine Wing in the day, right,

443
00:21:46,321 --> 00:21:48,840
Speaker 3: And I speak highly of Pauly Martin because back in

444
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,201
Speaker 3: the day that was someone that was a very notorious man.

445
00:21:51,681 --> 00:21:53,241
Speaker 3: Him and a couple of Jeff Cody and a few

446
00:21:53,241 --> 00:21:58,161
Speaker 3: of the old boys. They were, you know, not running hard, that's.

447
00:21:58,041 --> 00:21:58,761
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, and.

448
00:22:01,281 --> 00:22:01,961
Speaker 4: All that were crew.

449
00:22:02,241 --> 00:22:04,681
Speaker 3: We're at the Bay con Contranacus and a few others

450
00:22:04,681 --> 00:22:08,201
Speaker 3: to name. But what I'm saying is there was always

451
00:22:08,241 --> 00:22:11,521
Speaker 3: something that was brought to the table if someone was

452
00:22:11,561 --> 00:22:11,961
Speaker 3: no good.

453
00:22:12,241 --> 00:22:13,161
Speaker 4: Now here's the thing.

454
00:22:13,921 --> 00:22:16,761
Speaker 3: Either you put the paperwork on the table to prove

455
00:22:16,801 --> 00:22:18,681
Speaker 3: that that person was no good, or you're the one

456
00:22:18,681 --> 00:22:22,920
Speaker 3: that's going. Yeah, that doesn't exist anymore, you know, the

457
00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:25,961
Speaker 3: style of person or krim today's.

458
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:30,120
Speaker 4: He said my missus tits were good. He's a dog.

459
00:22:30,360 --> 00:22:32,321
Speaker 3: So next minute he's got twenty young blokes in there,

460
00:22:32,321 --> 00:22:34,521
Speaker 3: they're all on the buke. Someone says, a dog, he's

461
00:22:34,521 --> 00:22:37,321
Speaker 3: no good, let's pump him. The poor bloke's done nothing wrong,

462
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,241
Speaker 3: yet all of a sudden, next minute, words traveling jarl

463
00:22:40,281 --> 00:22:41,881
Speaker 3: to Jarley bared out, or he's a dog, or he's

464
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:42,281
Speaker 3: no good?

465
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,361
Speaker 4: Really, is that what it's about the way it is.

466
00:22:45,681 --> 00:22:48,241
Speaker 2: I couldn't survive the time back and young now because.

467
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:49,720
Speaker 4: No, it's not a nice place made at all.

468
00:22:49,801 --> 00:22:52,400
Speaker 2: I'd hate to be There are no give ups in

469
00:22:52,761 --> 00:22:55,801
Speaker 2: jail in so many heavy jarms because a long time

470
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,521
Speaker 2: and because they can try on the drugs. They're good guys,

471
00:23:00,041 --> 00:23:03,001
Speaker 2: and they're paying heavy guys, heavy guys to look after

472
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:07,160
Speaker 2: him correct, and the guys will justify it. Well, you know,

473
00:23:07,360 --> 00:23:10,680
Speaker 2: I'm looking to ask for assault, you know, but and

474
00:23:10,761 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 2: I've seen it so often. I'm not going to name notice.

475
00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:17,160
Speaker 2: But there's some very bad wordes and and that just

476
00:23:17,241 --> 00:23:19,920
Speaker 2: never would have happened in the old days. In the

477
00:23:19,961 --> 00:23:23,001
Speaker 2: old days, there was one going on protection. When I

478
00:23:23,041 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 2: went to Gold and one guy. Now it's half protection,

479
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,880
Speaker 2: but it's a different culture and half the people on protection.

480
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:31,640
Speaker 2: What the hell are you going to do? You're a

481
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,161
Speaker 2: young boy, and I was soon this happened. A young

482
00:23:34,281 --> 00:23:38,041
Speaker 2: kid came in. And what they do in Gold when

483
00:23:38,041 --> 00:23:41,401
Speaker 2: they put the locals in with the rest of us.

484
00:23:41,721 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 2: Until this, they were working away to do them with,

485
00:23:44,441 --> 00:23:46,160
Speaker 2: so there might be there two or three works. This

486
00:23:46,241 --> 00:23:50,281
Speaker 2: kid come in, he's about eight on you look younger.

487
00:23:51,001 --> 00:23:53,041
Speaker 2: He went in to have a shower with us, and

488
00:23:53,281 --> 00:23:55,041
Speaker 2: we all had to shower to give him forty minutes

489
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,920
Speaker 2: and they out of forty fifty people, so he came in,

490
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,241
Speaker 2: had a shower with us, and he was very embarrassing

491
00:24:01,241 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 2: con see and there were people standing, but he was safe.

492
00:24:04,281 --> 00:24:06,401
Speaker 2: I was in yours. No one was going to touch

493
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,481
Speaker 2: some of those guys doing forty fifty years. No one

494
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,681
Speaker 2: was going to touch that kid now. But he got frightened.

495
00:24:11,801 --> 00:24:15,721
Speaker 2: He wanted a chef. They went in, they put him

496
00:24:16,001 --> 00:24:17,921
Speaker 2: because I haven't got the room. They put him too.

497
00:24:17,961 --> 00:24:21,200
Speaker 2: Out We're gone. One of the worst sexual predators in

498
00:24:21,321 --> 00:24:25,120
Speaker 2: us O was Paul Wilmot. That one of those guys

499
00:24:25,321 --> 00:24:28,921
Speaker 2: involved with the bolling one that he got him, tied

500
00:24:28,961 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 2: him up, stripped him down, shaved him and raped him

501
00:24:32,201 --> 00:24:34,641
Speaker 2: on the night. That's the true story. So he went

502
00:24:34,681 --> 00:24:38,360
Speaker 2: from the main gil where he was safe, onto a

503
00:24:38,441 --> 00:24:41,881
Speaker 2: cheation where he's supposed to be safe and the opposite thing.

504
00:24:42,001 --> 00:24:44,521
Speaker 2: And they try to hush that up. And his school

505
00:24:44,561 --> 00:24:46,680
Speaker 2: teacher came to me and said, John, can you just

506
00:24:46,681 --> 00:24:48,281
Speaker 2: do anything about it? I said, what can we do?

507
00:24:48,321 --> 00:24:49,921
Speaker 2: And we don't even know about it. We've got your

508
00:24:49,961 --> 00:24:51,521
Speaker 2: word on it. But she said, I'm telling her, And

509
00:24:51,561 --> 00:24:54,281
Speaker 2: we said, how lad it did happen? That door haspooned released,

510
00:24:54,561 --> 00:24:58,121
Speaker 2: actually got released, but he's back in now, Willman's back

511
00:24:58,160 --> 00:24:59,921
Speaker 2: in now and on more. I don't think you'll get

512
00:24:59,921 --> 00:25:03,481
Speaker 2: out again. But that's the sort of thing can happen.

513
00:25:03,681 --> 00:25:06,120
Speaker 2: How the hell can you take him and putting in

514
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:10,321
Speaker 2: one of the worst section offenders in Australia, and that

515
00:25:10,481 --> 00:25:12,360
Speaker 2: that case was a terrible case.

516
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:16,041
Speaker 3: You know, it's heartbreaking because the system has a lot

517
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:21,081
Speaker 3: to blame for the continual revolving door. Look like I say,

518
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 3: we all make our choices and no one's asking, you know,

519
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,321
Speaker 3: for sympathy, and we put ourselves in those positions where

520
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,521
Speaker 3: jail is an option. If we get caught and we

521
00:25:29,561 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 3: do the wrong thing, then that's the consequences. But the

522
00:25:32,721 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 3: realities of what takes place in there, as opposed to

523
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:39,561
Speaker 3: what the public are assuming or believe to be fact right,

524
00:25:39,681 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 3: is so far from the truth. And the amount of

525
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,001
Speaker 3: cover ups and the amount of corruption and the amount

526
00:25:44,041 --> 00:25:47,761
Speaker 3: of men in there that you know, like I won't

527
00:25:47,761 --> 00:25:50,801
Speaker 3: go into detail, obviously, but we know my situation. You know,

528
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,121
Speaker 3: when this first of all five years ago, four years ago,

529
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,401
Speaker 3: and I got picked up on a very old blue obviously,

530
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,281
Speaker 3: I was arrested and bail refused.

531
00:25:58,360 --> 00:25:59,441
Speaker 4: It was a very serious matter.

532
00:25:59,561 --> 00:26:02,001
Speaker 3: So here I am, and I hadn't been in the

533
00:26:02,041 --> 00:26:05,921
Speaker 3: Queensland system. I come into the system. I was expecting

534
00:26:05,961 --> 00:26:07,680
Speaker 3: it to be something like the Sydney system where I'd

535
00:26:07,721 --> 00:26:11,160
Speaker 3: done almost fourteen years. I could adapt the new I

536
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:12,761
Speaker 3: couldn't adapt one.

537
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 4: I was just blown away by the caliber of person

538
00:26:16,281 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 4: that I was around to.

539
00:26:19,681 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 3: Eighty percent of them were for DV, whereas you know,

540
00:26:23,041 --> 00:26:26,321
Speaker 3: back in Sydney it was all predominantly criminal crims. And

541
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,241
Speaker 3: what I'm saying isay, no, this is no disrespect to anybody,

542
00:26:29,281 --> 00:26:32,881
Speaker 3: but I'm just putting it into fact with businessmen or

543
00:26:32,921 --> 00:26:36,801
Speaker 3: every day you just blokes that have issues with women

544
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 3: and their partners. And then I don't condone it, but

545
00:26:39,001 --> 00:26:39,841
Speaker 3: this is the facts.

546
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:42,120
Speaker 4: Where do you stand.

547
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:43,680
Speaker 3: I don't want to talk to them, you know, I

548
00:26:43,721 --> 00:26:45,721
Speaker 3: don't want to associate with them. So then you're literally

549
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,160
Speaker 3: maybe one of five or ten percent that's going to

550
00:26:48,241 --> 00:26:49,241
Speaker 3: walk around on your own.

551
00:26:49,281 --> 00:26:50,561
Speaker 4: You don't want to talk to them, you don't want

552
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:51,400
Speaker 4: to be involved in anyone.

553
00:26:51,921 --> 00:26:55,281
Speaker 3: The yards in the Queensland system are nothing like the

554
00:26:55,360 --> 00:26:56,440
Speaker 3: New South Wales system.

555
00:26:56,481 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 4: There are a tiny, little boxed in yard. It is

556
00:27:00,120 --> 00:27:01,481
Speaker 4: a massive eye opener.

557
00:27:01,521 --> 00:27:04,880
Speaker 3: And I was just like happy to just do me

558
00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:07,481
Speaker 3: and not want to talk to anyone or have anything

559
00:27:07,481 --> 00:27:10,561
Speaker 3: to do with anything, because you just it just wasn't

560
00:27:10,681 --> 00:27:14,041
Speaker 3: the same, you know. And I just feel for anybody

561
00:27:14,120 --> 00:27:18,041
Speaker 3: who goes and the lockdowns, like your everything's split landing.

562
00:27:18,681 --> 00:27:20,721
Speaker 3: So you're on a twenty and four and it rotates

563
00:27:20,761 --> 00:27:23,321
Speaker 3: weekly to who gets out in the afternoon, who gets

564
00:27:23,321 --> 00:27:24,801
Speaker 3: out in the morning, so you are locked down.

565
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 4: It's like segree was star. Yeah, but it's just ridiculous.

566
00:27:29,961 --> 00:27:31,441
Speaker 4: They won't let the whole wing out.

567
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,041
Speaker 3: They let you, so they leave you locked in for

568
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,561
Speaker 3: twenty hours at a torn every day, twenty hours a

569
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 3: day lockdown. And now I think the blokes that are

570
00:27:39,521 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 3: in there for years on remand what does that do

571
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:43,561
Speaker 3: to someone's mental health?

572
00:27:43,921 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 2: Of course? And you know when I swear this went

573
00:27:46,281 --> 00:27:50,161
Speaker 2: in a jail that most people could get a one out,

574
00:27:50,241 --> 00:27:53,241
Speaker 2: so stuff like that, they're gold now out.

575
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:55,400
Speaker 4: I was a medical one out because I was. I

576
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,961
Speaker 4: was a spinner. I got the old blue cart over

577
00:28:00,001 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 4: the blue was a spinner.

578
00:28:03,761 --> 00:28:04,241
Speaker 2: They were good.

579
00:28:04,360 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 4: They were good, too excited. I was off my neds.

580
00:28:07,041 --> 00:28:08,441
Speaker 4: I was less a maniat.

581
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:12,481
Speaker 3: I had one selling one selly you did me a

582
00:28:12,521 --> 00:28:14,241
Speaker 3: sol and I actually paid him and I said, listen,

583
00:28:14,241 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 3: you got to go and just say that we've got

584
00:28:15,681 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 3: dramas and I'm just on a manic like I'm up

585
00:28:18,681 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 3: and walk around all night.

586
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:20,961
Speaker 4: You can't stand in the cell.

587
00:28:21,241 --> 00:28:23,601
Speaker 3: I'm losing you, you know, Like I didn't want him

588
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:25,241
Speaker 3: to put out like it was a duty of care,

589
00:28:25,281 --> 00:28:27,281
Speaker 3: but I just wanted him to say I was a spinner.

590
00:28:27,761 --> 00:28:29,801
Speaker 4: So then they put me down as a medical one out.

591
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:35,881
Speaker 2: Yeah, everyone, you've got to do it. You have to.

592
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:37,201
Speaker 4: It doesn't work anymore.

593
00:28:37,241 --> 00:28:39,081
Speaker 3: Mate, you're three and four out now and it's like

594
00:28:39,161 --> 00:28:41,961
Speaker 3: going up in Queens. Then you go into a one

595
00:28:42,001 --> 00:28:45,841
Speaker 3: out cell right with two inmates, A mattress gets put

596
00:28:45,921 --> 00:28:46,441
Speaker 3: on the floor.

597
00:28:46,521 --> 00:28:49,561
Speaker 4: Your head's literally sleeping next to the piss house.

598
00:28:49,881 --> 00:28:53,321
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how it is. Ten years ago and they

599
00:28:53,321 --> 00:28:55,881
Speaker 2: sent me up to Woods for a thirty year old

600
00:28:55,961 --> 00:28:56,481
Speaker 2: not reporting on.

601
00:28:57,521 --> 00:28:58,241
Speaker 4: That's what it's called.

602
00:28:59,121 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I went down down and I sleep on

603
00:29:02,001 --> 00:29:02,321
Speaker 2: the floor.

604
00:29:03,921 --> 00:29:06,001
Speaker 3: Look, I was just blessed young fellow, and I felt

605
00:29:06,081 --> 00:29:08,041
Speaker 3: so bad I actually for he was a gentleman. I

606
00:29:08,121 --> 00:29:09,761
Speaker 3: come into his cell and he said, look made, He said,

607
00:29:09,761 --> 00:29:11,361
Speaker 3: you're the older one. I said, no, it's not like that.

608
00:29:11,441 --> 00:29:11,721
Speaker 4: I said.

609
00:29:11,721 --> 00:29:14,361
Speaker 3: Look, he goes, no, I'm happy to this. And we

610
00:29:14,441 --> 00:29:17,561
Speaker 3: made it as comfortable as we could for him. But mate, disgusting.

611
00:29:17,961 --> 00:29:20,801
Speaker 3: People don't realize you're not sleeping in a bed. You're

612
00:29:20,841 --> 00:29:23,601
Speaker 3: not sleeping you know, as people would assume in a

613
00:29:23,641 --> 00:29:24,481
Speaker 3: bunk situation.

614
00:29:24,641 --> 00:29:25,641
Speaker 4: You're not got privacy.

615
00:29:25,921 --> 00:29:29,921
Speaker 3: It is disgusting twenty hours a day that that is

616
00:29:29,961 --> 00:29:32,041
Speaker 3: where you live. You know what I mean, Fat and

617
00:29:32,041 --> 00:29:34,881
Speaker 3: shit and piss and if one's sick, you're both going

618
00:29:34,921 --> 00:29:35,441
Speaker 3: to get sick.

619
00:29:35,481 --> 00:29:36,681
Speaker 4: You can't come out of yourself.

620
00:29:37,241 --> 00:29:41,201
Speaker 2: It's just see. This is great that you can do podcasts.

621
00:29:41,441 --> 00:29:43,641
Speaker 2: People watch this and they say, oh it yues, I

622
00:29:43,641 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 2: didn't learn that, And great that I can write books

623
00:29:46,481 --> 00:29:48,481
Speaker 2: and say, look, this is the way it used to earn,

624
00:29:48,521 --> 00:29:50,561
Speaker 2: this the way it is now, and this is what happens.

625
00:29:50,601 --> 00:29:54,641
Speaker 2: And you know, you get back to when I became

626
00:29:54,641 --> 00:29:57,481
Speaker 2: a bank robbery signed. Look I'm going to rob banks. Now.

627
00:29:58,881 --> 00:30:03,841
Speaker 2: People say, geez, John's pretty clever guy. He's good chess

628
00:30:03,841 --> 00:30:07,041
Speaker 2: playing all that. I had to look at my line

629
00:30:07,041 --> 00:30:12,441
Speaker 2: of thinking and it was absolutely just it was it's

630
00:30:12,481 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 2: just ship idiot. I was almost an idiot because I

631
00:30:16,281 --> 00:30:18,921
Speaker 2: said I'll do I rob a bank. I had to

632
00:30:18,961 --> 00:30:23,881
Speaker 2: look bank robbers very rare at that stage. Darcy Durgan

633
00:30:24,401 --> 00:30:29,521
Speaker 2: doing Life for bank Rolling Escape, Kevin Simmons doing Life

634
00:30:29,681 --> 00:30:33,321
Speaker 2: bank growing Escape. You look at John Dillinger over there,

635
00:30:33,681 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 2: famous bank roller shot him dead, bank rowing escape, Willie Sutton,

636
00:30:38,641 --> 00:30:42,881
Speaker 2: famous bank robber escape. Did there weren't many banks got robbed,

637
00:30:43,401 --> 00:30:45,441
Speaker 2: so that there's got to be something there to tell you. Look,

638
00:30:45,761 --> 00:30:47,561
Speaker 2: it's not a good idea to rob banks because crims

639
00:30:47,561 --> 00:30:50,441
Speaker 2: didn't rob banks. And I say the elite criminals were

640
00:30:50,441 --> 00:30:55,161
Speaker 2: the the guys that robbed the Saints because yeah takers,

641
00:30:55,481 --> 00:30:58,321
Speaker 2: and they were held in high regard in those states.

642
00:30:58,961 --> 00:31:02,681
Speaker 2: And but I said, no, I'm going to rob banks

643
00:31:02,681 --> 00:31:04,321
Speaker 2: because they're wide open. I got out and I had

644
00:31:04,321 --> 00:31:07,281
Speaker 2: to look around, and I'm a fast runner. I play

645
00:31:07,401 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 2: good getaway roots, so I can wear a masks. How

646
00:31:10,761 --> 00:31:14,161
Speaker 2: are you going to catch me? You know? Well, first

647
00:31:14,441 --> 00:31:17,241
Speaker 2: where I did? You know? The second one I did?

648
00:31:17,481 --> 00:31:21,041
Speaker 2: They chased me with guns, seemed to tell us had guns,

649
00:31:21,121 --> 00:31:23,641
Speaker 2: and I just think it's faint. Then I'm able to

650
00:31:23,681 --> 00:31:26,561
Speaker 2: survive this far. I've been signed up by bank tellers

651
00:31:26,881 --> 00:31:30,001
Speaker 2: when I was and I escaped from battist court, they

652
00:31:30,001 --> 00:31:31,601
Speaker 2: came after me fin and shuts over me there they

653
00:31:31,601 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 2: missed bank tellers. Then I went down the moment that

654
00:31:34,321 --> 00:31:36,281
Speaker 2: they find us to me down there the bank tellers.

655
00:31:37,081 --> 00:31:39,521
Speaker 2: When we're in the helicopter, they hit us free times,

656
00:31:39,561 --> 00:31:42,361
Speaker 2: didn't bring us down, And I'm.

657
00:31:41,601 --> 00:31:43,801
Speaker 3: Gonna I've got to get before we move forward on

658
00:31:43,801 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 3: on of the positive. I mean, I know this is

659
00:31:45,481 --> 00:31:48,521
Speaker 3: your backstory, but we've got it. We've got to really

660
00:31:48,521 --> 00:31:50,401
Speaker 3: get into the helicop. I mean, it's not it's not

661
00:31:50,441 --> 00:31:53,561
Speaker 3: a John Killig story without the true the true story

662
00:31:53,601 --> 00:31:54,601
Speaker 3: of the helicopter side.

663
00:31:55,401 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 2: Let me let it all right. So I started one banks.

664
00:31:59,321 --> 00:32:01,361
Speaker 2: I was pretty good, gone away quint a bit. But

665
00:32:01,841 --> 00:32:05,321
Speaker 2: because it was bank rubbing, it's very rare. They were

666
00:32:05,361 --> 00:32:07,401
Speaker 2: looking for me all around Australia and there was some

667
00:32:07,441 --> 00:32:09,841
Speaker 2: pretty pretty bad crimes going on in sixty six. But

668
00:32:10,081 --> 00:32:13,641
Speaker 2: I robbed. I went in and robbed a bank in Cabramatta.

669
00:32:15,281 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 2: I got to tell you this one because it was

670
00:32:17,241 --> 00:32:20,761
Speaker 2: actually Valentine's state. It was the fourtnth of February nineteen

671
00:32:20,801 --> 00:32:26,881
Speaker 2: sixty six, and it wouldn't believe this could happen. So

672
00:32:28,521 --> 00:32:31,481
Speaker 2: there's going to be a lot of money. There's got

673
00:32:31,481 --> 00:32:33,401
Speaker 2: to be a lot of money in this bank because

674
00:32:33,721 --> 00:32:35,881
Speaker 2: change every day. And I'd already robbed the bank a

675
00:32:35,921 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 2: few weeks earlier, so I got away with that, so

676
00:32:39,241 --> 00:32:42,881
Speaker 2: I knew I could do it. So I parked the

677
00:32:42,961 --> 00:32:47,681
Speaker 2: car outside another bank. Believe in it. And there's another

678
00:32:47,721 --> 00:32:49,681
Speaker 2: story there. The guy in that bank saw it. It

679
00:32:49,721 --> 00:32:52,041
Speaker 2: was suspicious and he had his gun ready. He told

680
00:32:52,081 --> 00:32:53,161
Speaker 2: the cops if he had to come in here, I

681
00:32:53,201 --> 00:32:56,401
Speaker 2: was going to shoot him. So that's like again, you know,

682
00:32:56,561 --> 00:33:00,161
Speaker 2: it's almost like Fate's looking ask me. So I've got

683
00:33:00,161 --> 00:33:02,921
Speaker 2: the murder runner, and I'm just about to battle up

684
00:33:02,961 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 2: and go over and this old lady to do this

685
00:33:05,561 --> 00:33:07,761
Speaker 2: old lady man, she come out and said, excuse me,

686
00:33:07,841 --> 00:33:11,241
Speaker 2: young man said, She said, you've left your murder running.

687
00:33:11,961 --> 00:33:17,001
Speaker 2: I said, oh, I said, oh, thank you. She said, yes,

688
00:33:17,241 --> 00:33:20,321
Speaker 2: a lot of things around this play. She said, you

689
00:33:20,441 --> 00:33:21,801
Speaker 2: go and do what you're going to do when you come.

690
00:33:21,841 --> 00:33:28,601
Speaker 2: Bank account be gone. I said, so I went out

691
00:33:28,601 --> 00:33:30,961
Speaker 2: of it, and she followed me. And I didn't have

692
00:33:31,081 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 2: becase I had a bit of silver painter put up

693
00:33:32,961 --> 00:33:36,281
Speaker 2: on your edition. So I'm feeling around there and she's

694
00:33:36,321 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 2: wondering what's going on, and I said, I'll pull the

695
00:33:39,481 --> 00:33:42,321
Speaker 2: sould paint. Thank you very much, ma'am. She said, oh, look,

696
00:33:43,481 --> 00:33:46,441
Speaker 2: she said, I know one's liking around here. And I said,

697
00:33:46,481 --> 00:33:49,281
Speaker 2: look down. I said, it's going to her. I said,

698
00:33:49,441 --> 00:33:51,921
Speaker 2: if I could, or don't wear some roses. She saw

699
00:33:51,961 --> 00:33:54,241
Speaker 2: you were lovely young man. Well, the lovely young man

700
00:33:55,041 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 2: she was standing over across the street. Turmut a slider

701
00:33:58,481 --> 00:34:04,961
Speaker 2: comes running out of a bank manage has got a gun.

702
00:34:06,801 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 2: He's got a butcher with me, and he's just been

703
00:34:08,601 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 2: robbed as well, and they want to kill me and

704
00:34:12,041 --> 00:34:14,161
Speaker 2: I jumped into the car and I was saying that,

705
00:34:14,321 --> 00:34:18,241
Speaker 2: but she's going to get me. But they didn't come.

706
00:34:18,321 --> 00:34:19,881
Speaker 2: They saw me get in. They knew how to gun,

707
00:34:20,201 --> 00:34:22,001
Speaker 2: sat they comment in a car. If I had come over,

708
00:34:22,081 --> 00:34:25,721
Speaker 2: they might have got me. But and I'm I'm feeling there.

709
00:34:26,081 --> 00:34:28,641
Speaker 2: And I don't know what she thought, because she thought

710
00:34:28,681 --> 00:34:31,121
Speaker 2: of news later that day, the lovely young man, you know.

711
00:34:31,201 --> 00:34:34,921
Speaker 2: And but it's crazy what can happen in situations where

712
00:34:35,881 --> 00:34:39,241
Speaker 2: the thing that you don't plan for can happen. And

713
00:34:40,041 --> 00:34:42,281
Speaker 2: that nearly cost me my life because I reckon I

714
00:34:42,321 --> 00:34:44,081
Speaker 2: would have shot me, but they were a bit scared

715
00:34:44,081 --> 00:34:46,281
Speaker 2: to come up because they knew how to gun, you know.

716
00:34:46,841 --> 00:34:48,401
Speaker 2: And then when I went down the moment I went

717
00:34:48,441 --> 00:34:51,241
Speaker 2: down there and say, thing happened. I got chased by

718
00:34:51,241 --> 00:34:54,641
Speaker 2: a couple of bank tellers and I was pretty pissed off.

719
00:34:55,001 --> 00:34:56,561
Speaker 2: I've got a fear in the money out of this one.

720
00:34:56,841 --> 00:35:03,401
Speaker 2: And I ran across the car and he pointed at me,

721
00:35:03,441 --> 00:35:06,121
Speaker 2: and I opened a car door and finally hit the

722
00:35:06,201 --> 00:35:09,161
Speaker 2: car door, bang bang bang, and then I leaned over

723
00:35:09,481 --> 00:35:12,601
Speaker 2: and I pretended to shut and they died behind the

724
00:35:12,641 --> 00:35:15,081
Speaker 2: car and I jumped in the car, but in the

725
00:35:15,121 --> 00:35:18,081
Speaker 2: meantime the trunk driver and see what was going on.

726
00:35:18,561 --> 00:35:21,401
Speaker 2: So he's coming and trying to stop me down, and

727
00:35:21,681 --> 00:35:24,081
Speaker 2: when I had a plan to get down and end

728
00:35:24,121 --> 00:35:26,161
Speaker 2: of the street which is dead ann and run across

729
00:35:26,321 --> 00:35:28,601
Speaker 2: a paddy and catch the train. That's what I used

730
00:35:28,601 --> 00:35:31,321
Speaker 2: to do, stuff like that, And it was all about timing.

731
00:35:31,841 --> 00:35:34,881
Speaker 2: And so I got around, just got around. He went

732
00:35:34,961 --> 00:35:37,681
Speaker 2: in the footpaths, got them down in the street, and

733
00:35:37,761 --> 00:35:40,521
Speaker 2: he's come after me. And I looked back, and so

734
00:35:40,681 --> 00:35:43,641
Speaker 2: the two channels are still running too, and they're coming

735
00:35:44,081 --> 00:35:48,081
Speaker 2: with guns. And if i'd have ran down, I'm probably

736
00:35:48,081 --> 00:35:49,881
Speaker 2: would have got the train. But I was so angry

737
00:35:50,001 --> 00:35:52,441
Speaker 2: this going. I jumped out and I ran over and

738
00:35:52,441 --> 00:35:54,761
Speaker 2: he saw me coming. He wound he ran the window up,

739
00:35:54,961 --> 00:35:57,321
Speaker 2: you know. So I just chapped on him and I

740
00:35:57,401 --> 00:36:02,201
Speaker 2: said what I said, you got me? You got me?

741
00:36:03,041 --> 00:36:06,601
Speaker 4: Are you having a good day, sir, because it's got

742
00:36:06,641 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 4: real fucking bad.

743
00:36:07,681 --> 00:36:10,841
Speaker 2: I can imagine what you think. And he's sitting there

744
00:36:10,921 --> 00:36:14,561
Speaker 2: like this, you know, like that, and I just laughed,

745
00:36:15,081 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 2: what are you gonna do? And ran off. So then

746
00:36:17,841 --> 00:36:21,961
Speaker 2: I'm running across the field and then a melmane. They

747
00:36:21,961 --> 00:36:24,201
Speaker 2: got these little barriers the trains are always on time.

748
00:36:24,241 --> 00:36:26,841
Speaker 2: What are you gonna be on time? And I'm going

749
00:36:26,881 --> 00:36:28,761
Speaker 2: as far as a kid to switch pulling off me

750
00:36:28,841 --> 00:36:31,761
Speaker 2: and look back. This funny bank tiller's soll come with guns.

751
00:36:32,361 --> 00:36:35,801
Speaker 2: And there's this little guy AND's in a little uniform

752
00:36:35,921 --> 00:36:37,601
Speaker 2: standing there and he's got his hand on the gate

753
00:36:37,601 --> 00:36:39,601
Speaker 2: and you can see me. I'm got about fift three

754
00:36:39,601 --> 00:36:42,321
Speaker 2: minutes away, fifteen meters away. And he goes and the

755
00:36:42,401 --> 00:36:47,201
Speaker 2: trains is coming there. He goes, shuts the gate and

756
00:36:47,401 --> 00:36:49,481
Speaker 2: I said, can you be going. I'm going to get

757
00:36:49,521 --> 00:36:51,361
Speaker 2: that train. I'll run. I run to get that train.

758
00:36:51,761 --> 00:36:54,641
Speaker 2: He said, you missed it, pelle. I said, I haven't,

759
00:36:54,641 --> 00:36:57,881
Speaker 2: mister South there just he said, can't do it. So

760
00:36:58,361 --> 00:37:02,361
Speaker 2: I look backward that that raced the end there and

761
00:37:02,401 --> 00:37:03,681
Speaker 2: they smoke me to the tuck saw.

762
00:37:06,561 --> 00:37:10,441
Speaker 3: He was, obviously you really have been kissed on the

763
00:37:10,441 --> 00:37:13,001
Speaker 3: dick by an angel eleven eighty two years.

764
00:37:13,041 --> 00:37:15,321
Speaker 4: Mate, you are blessed, but.

765
00:37:15,081 --> 00:37:15,681
Speaker 2: You are here.

766
00:37:15,681 --> 00:37:18,001
Speaker 4: You are here too good. You're here to share these stories.

767
00:37:18,081 --> 00:37:19,881
Speaker 3: I think you believe, and I think you're here to

768
00:37:19,961 --> 00:37:22,881
Speaker 3: make a difference in you know, the lives of many

769
00:37:23,281 --> 00:37:23,801
Speaker 3: and John.

770
00:37:24,361 --> 00:37:26,921
Speaker 4: You know, once again we have to have a little

771
00:37:27,001 --> 00:37:30,361
Speaker 4: chuckle now, and look I do, and I'm sure you do.

772
00:37:30,521 --> 00:37:33,201
Speaker 3: Send out anybody that was affected in these times that

773
00:37:33,281 --> 00:37:34,321
Speaker 3: may still be alive.

774
00:37:34,081 --> 00:37:37,561
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, oh yeah, well I'll tell me that about.

775
00:37:38,521 --> 00:37:39,921
Speaker 2: I've got a bit of remorse and a lot of

776
00:37:39,961 --> 00:37:44,361
Speaker 2: remorse actually and how it came about. But just quickly

777
00:37:44,601 --> 00:37:47,961
Speaker 2: he he After the train left the open up, I

778
00:37:48,041 --> 00:37:50,041
Speaker 2: jumped down and the train and check and it was

779
00:37:50,081 --> 00:37:52,961
Speaker 2: a great big my offense. And I can see a

780
00:37:53,041 --> 00:37:57,201
Speaker 2: factory on the other side, so certainly desperation I've managed

781
00:37:57,201 --> 00:38:01,241
Speaker 2: to climb I made and think it's about toys, toys tours. Man,

782
00:38:01,321 --> 00:38:04,161
Speaker 2: it's probably change change eleven three. I managed to get

783
00:38:04,201 --> 00:38:06,121
Speaker 2: out and jump down and into the into the yard

784
00:38:06,201 --> 00:38:08,961
Speaker 2: and they're all in there having lunch for the factory.

785
00:38:09,641 --> 00:38:11,681
Speaker 2: I went out of the car and two guys sitting

786
00:38:11,681 --> 00:38:14,761
Speaker 2: in the front. One was about fifteen, i'ld going about

787
00:38:14,761 --> 00:38:19,441
Speaker 2: thirty five. And I got in the back the leading

788
00:38:20,201 --> 00:38:26,721
Speaker 2: sandwiches and I said, look, look, guys, I've got to

789
00:38:26,721 --> 00:38:28,601
Speaker 2: get out of him. I'm going to get in the

790
00:38:28,681 --> 00:38:30,641
Speaker 2: in the town. Could you could you tight me? And

791
00:38:30,681 --> 00:38:35,001
Speaker 2: I shout him and shout him the gun and calls

792
00:38:35,281 --> 00:38:38,121
Speaker 2: kills curry comers. I said, we can do it. I

793
00:38:38,161 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 2: sip so it turned down the car. Everybody's doing lunch.

794
00:38:42,801 --> 00:38:45,601
Speaker 2: Go to the security guard. Why is the security guard

795
00:38:45,681 --> 00:38:50,961
Speaker 2: for there's songs going everywhere. Yeah, drives the scroom and

796
00:38:51,041 --> 00:38:55,281
Speaker 2: we started talking about football and and somebody said, yes,

797
00:38:55,521 --> 00:38:58,361
Speaker 2: bunny clip cars everywhere. He said, geez, I really answer someone.

798
00:38:58,401 --> 00:39:03,161
Speaker 2: I said, yes something. Somebody's done something. I'm sitting down,

799
00:39:06,561 --> 00:39:10,961
Speaker 2: but they're playing the game. They're really cool. And I

800
00:39:11,001 --> 00:39:13,321
Speaker 2: said I heard your back for him and he said

801
00:39:13,441 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 2: Collie would well that's had a soft smoke for colly

802
00:39:16,521 --> 00:39:20,441
Speaker 2: whatever since because I'm the geeloster for him. And I said, look, anyway,

803
00:39:20,921 --> 00:39:22,481
Speaker 2: we get into the asker and said, I said, just

804
00:39:22,561 --> 00:39:24,361
Speaker 2: drop his hands and I said that I kind of.

805
00:39:24,401 --> 00:39:26,601
Speaker 2: I get my bundle of money. I said, as for

806
00:39:26,641 --> 00:39:29,761
Speaker 2: the petrol, He said, wouldn't come out. I said, tell

807
00:39:29,801 --> 00:39:32,201
Speaker 2: you know. He said, I said, look, put it on

808
00:39:32,281 --> 00:39:35,241
Speaker 2: colly Wood to win the premiercy. I said, yes, that's

809
00:39:35,241 --> 00:39:37,321
Speaker 2: your time, put it on. I said this might be

810
00:39:37,361 --> 00:39:40,081
Speaker 2: a lucky dae. He said, old bunny, do that. Well.

811
00:39:40,121 --> 00:39:43,561
Speaker 2: Colly Wood got to the Grand Final. There was scores

812
00:39:43,561 --> 00:39:47,921
Speaker 2: were all levels. We've had ten seconds ago, and when

813
00:39:47,961 --> 00:39:51,241
Speaker 2: I sat killed, the guy kicked the goal and kicked

814
00:39:51,281 --> 00:39:54,001
Speaker 2: the point and it just made and they lost it

815
00:39:54,041 --> 00:39:58,561
Speaker 2: by a point. And the guy who trained Wow, the coach,

816
00:39:58,681 --> 00:40:00,881
Speaker 2: the coach of St Kilda, was a cop. Can't you

817
00:40:00,921 --> 00:40:03,361
Speaker 2: believe in a bunny cop? Wow said they would have

818
00:40:03,401 --> 00:40:03,921
Speaker 2: lost out.

819
00:40:03,761 --> 00:40:05,041
Speaker 4: On that, but I was playing Bennett.

820
00:40:05,241 --> 00:40:11,321
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Well he's friend as here. That's right, that's

821
00:40:11,361 --> 00:40:14,321
Speaker 2: friend as here. But the thing is, I always remember

822
00:40:14,361 --> 00:40:16,401
Speaker 2: and I always had a soft spot for Kywood. So

823
00:40:16,481 --> 00:40:19,161
Speaker 2: when I got home that night, put on the news.

824
00:40:19,241 --> 00:40:21,921
Speaker 2: There it's the truck driver and he said I chased

825
00:40:21,961 --> 00:40:24,321
Speaker 2: him and he said, I got up there and he said,

826
00:40:24,401 --> 00:40:26,361
Speaker 2: we got that end of the thing. And he said

827
00:40:26,361 --> 00:40:28,881
Speaker 2: he jumped out, and I jumped out and he started

828
00:40:28,881 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 2: to run like a curd on and I said, come

829
00:40:31,561 --> 00:40:34,121
Speaker 2: back here, and they said we there to gun. He said,

830
00:40:34,121 --> 00:40:40,641
Speaker 2: you know what, I don't want to check. But he

831
00:40:40,721 --> 00:40:43,241
Speaker 2: fucked himself up. He did me a big He did

832
00:40:43,281 --> 00:40:46,641
Speaker 2: me a big favor because what happened Eventually I got caught.

833
00:40:46,681 --> 00:40:49,361
Speaker 2: I got given up that I had tops and dressed

834
00:40:49,361 --> 00:40:52,081
Speaker 2: his bloody dances and the dancers and and I went

835
00:40:52,121 --> 00:40:54,761
Speaker 2: down there and they got me. But the guy had

836
00:40:54,801 --> 00:40:56,721
Speaker 2: jumped there. I was on the lake and I know

837
00:40:56,801 --> 00:40:58,481
Speaker 2: he didn't go. I was going to go to Australia

838
00:40:58,681 --> 00:41:01,681
Speaker 2: and that's how close I went. And the guy went down.

839
00:41:01,801 --> 00:41:03,721
Speaker 2: He looked like me. They got and smashed him down,

840
00:41:03,801 --> 00:41:06,841
Speaker 2: kicked him and he was innotent. And when I when

841
00:41:06,921 --> 00:41:09,481
Speaker 2: I got there, they said you got to send the trouble.

842
00:41:09,801 --> 00:41:11,761
Speaker 2: We got the wrong guy. And I said no, he

843
00:41:11,881 --> 00:41:13,881
Speaker 2: was the right guy. I said, you know, I said,

844
00:41:13,881 --> 00:41:15,841
Speaker 2: we know we've got but they actually got in a

845
00:41:16,001 --> 00:41:20,481
Speaker 2: shoot over bass and somebody else. But what happened. They

846
00:41:20,561 --> 00:41:23,081
Speaker 2: travel like that. But when I went to court, I

847
00:41:23,121 --> 00:41:26,521
Speaker 2: went to the you know you first of all, you've

848
00:41:26,521 --> 00:41:28,801
Speaker 2: got to go and have a hearing in the law.

849
00:41:28,881 --> 00:41:31,441
Speaker 2: Court said if they got a case, and they had

850
00:41:31,481 --> 00:41:35,281
Speaker 2: him sitting there and I spanned escorted by two screws

851
00:41:35,681 --> 00:41:39,241
Speaker 2: and I knew what he was going to say. He

852
00:41:39,361 --> 00:41:42,281
Speaker 2: was going to get up and say that I rob

853
00:41:42,361 --> 00:41:44,881
Speaker 2: the bank, did that, and I threatened him get extra

854
00:41:45,041 --> 00:41:46,641
Speaker 2: he's going to say that. I put him down to

855
00:41:46,721 --> 00:41:50,281
Speaker 2: him in front and I said, don't forget the channel

856
00:41:50,321 --> 00:41:52,161
Speaker 2: line and I said, don't we get the Channel nine

857
00:41:52,201 --> 00:41:54,121
Speaker 2: interview where you chase me. We're going to stick it

858
00:41:54,161 --> 00:41:58,481
Speaker 2: up my arms and he cheered white. You know he

859
00:41:58,601 --> 00:41:59,241
Speaker 2: never gave in it.

860
00:42:00,961 --> 00:42:04,241
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, well he realized he was going to get

861
00:42:04,241 --> 00:42:05,001
Speaker 3: pulled a power ball.

862
00:42:08,361 --> 00:42:08,961
Speaker 2: What you're saying?

863
00:42:09,801 --> 00:42:15,601
Speaker 5: Cameras moving along a few years now, and wow, I'm

864
00:42:15,641 --> 00:42:18,321
Speaker 5: sure we could sit here for hours upon hours and

865
00:42:18,401 --> 00:42:20,961
Speaker 5: there would be some genuinely humorous stories.

866
00:42:21,001 --> 00:42:22,521
Speaker 4: I mean, look, you could probably.

867
00:42:22,641 --> 00:42:24,961
Speaker 3: You can actually these one for you do a comic

868
00:42:24,961 --> 00:42:28,201
Speaker 3: book before you your years and do a comic book

869
00:42:28,441 --> 00:42:32,281
Speaker 3: about your stories maybe and create that humor aside to it.

870
00:42:32,281 --> 00:42:34,281
Speaker 3: Because I reckon, like the old foot ride flats, you

871
00:42:34,281 --> 00:42:41,761
Speaker 3: could be an absolute best seller. That would be that

872
00:42:41,801 --> 00:42:44,721
Speaker 3: would be genuinely I reckon. If you could create a

873
00:42:44,801 --> 00:42:48,241
Speaker 3: comic book of your sort of stories, mate, that would

874
00:42:48,281 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 3: be phenomenal. What a, what a what a really cool

875
00:42:50,441 --> 00:42:52,641
Speaker 3: thing to do. Anyway, I'll talk to you offline and

876
00:42:52,681 --> 00:42:54,361
Speaker 3: how we can work together and you can give me

877
00:42:54,401 --> 00:42:54,841
Speaker 3: a little bit of.

878
00:42:57,761 --> 00:43:00,761
Speaker 2: I we should just mean we should just we've got

879
00:43:00,801 --> 00:43:01,361
Speaker 2: to mention that.

880
00:43:02,881 --> 00:43:08,921
Speaker 3: What about that oh mate, she came she came down

881
00:43:08,921 --> 00:43:11,161
Speaker 3: and Geelong, Well we just went along about it a

882
00:43:11,201 --> 00:43:12,721
Speaker 3: month ago and.

883
00:43:13,041 --> 00:43:14,921
Speaker 2: She's sent me on that pistol. Right, we got away

884
00:43:14,961 --> 00:43:18,041
Speaker 2: with a toy gun and was explaining how it happened.

885
00:43:18,441 --> 00:43:20,441
Speaker 2: She got nervous and couldn't move. And I'm confident that

886
00:43:20,561 --> 00:43:22,041
Speaker 2: was the thing. I'll give it, come out and give

887
00:43:22,081 --> 00:43:25,161
Speaker 2: me a gun. And anyway, I got her up to

888
00:43:25,201 --> 00:43:29,761
Speaker 2: tell the story, and she told the story Jackie, and

889
00:43:29,841 --> 00:43:34,121
Speaker 2: we got a way around for twelve months. But at

890
00:43:34,121 --> 00:43:38,001
Speaker 2: the end selling books, they all got hurt to sign

891
00:43:38,001 --> 00:43:40,881
Speaker 2: the books. So I just took it back and she's

892
00:43:40,961 --> 00:43:42,801
Speaker 2: up there and her husband said it took him thirty

893
00:43:42,841 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 2: years before he was faking. He said, he said, he says,

894
00:43:46,041 --> 00:43:53,361
Speaker 2: she shined audio books. She turned sixty. I went over

895
00:43:53,441 --> 00:43:55,881
Speaker 2: from sixty Thursday. She did it when she was twenty

896
00:43:56,761 --> 00:44:00,721
Speaker 2: forty years ago. Yeah, and you know, and the other

897
00:44:00,761 --> 00:44:03,081
Speaker 2: thing we've got to mention, and we'll go to we've

898
00:44:03,081 --> 00:44:06,721
Speaker 2: got to mention that I was down in Peddridge when

899
00:44:06,801 --> 00:44:10,801
Speaker 2: when the last man hanged in a state of ron Ryan.

900
00:44:10,841 --> 00:44:13,841
Speaker 2: I think it's important to me, said, because we're having

901
00:44:13,841 --> 00:44:17,241
Speaker 2: an exhibition up there on the second of February at Geelong,

902
00:44:17,601 --> 00:44:22,401
Speaker 2: and people don't realize there's there is a very powerful

903
00:44:22,481 --> 00:44:27,241
Speaker 2: surge now towards trying to trying to get him actually

904
00:44:27,401 --> 00:44:31,441
Speaker 2: exonerated because most of us believe and I've always believed

905
00:44:31,481 --> 00:44:34,081
Speaker 2: that Ryan never pulled a tree, and I ain't doing

906
00:44:34,161 --> 00:44:35,921
Speaker 2: it now. It's a long story, but people should look

907
00:44:36,001 --> 00:44:39,681
Speaker 2: up that thing. Ron, Ryan, Ryan and Walker escape and

908
00:44:40,201 --> 00:44:44,201
Speaker 2: there was late December sixty five and he's the last

909
00:44:44,201 --> 00:44:48,521
Speaker 2: man executed on the third of February sixty seven. And

910
00:44:48,561 --> 00:44:52,161
Speaker 2: it was so bad and so controversal that there's never

911
00:44:52,161 --> 00:44:55,201
Speaker 2: been an execution in Australia since that was. That was

912
00:44:55,241 --> 00:44:57,841
Speaker 2: the last one, and it was because of what happened

913
00:44:57,841 --> 00:45:01,041
Speaker 2: to Ryan, and it was a political thing. And the

914
00:45:01,041 --> 00:45:03,161
Speaker 2: body was the one who insisted he was the premier

915
00:45:03,201 --> 00:45:04,041
Speaker 2: of the one who assistedly.

916
00:45:04,681 --> 00:45:06,921
Speaker 3: But I think it was who was It was it

917
00:45:06,961 --> 00:45:10,041
Speaker 3: you or Ron that took the guard up to the roof.

918
00:45:10,801 --> 00:45:16,041
Speaker 2: No, that was me. That was sixty six. What happened

919
00:45:16,041 --> 00:45:19,921
Speaker 2: there is showing sixty six. People don't understand what happened. First,

920
00:45:20,121 --> 00:45:24,041
Speaker 2: I tried to skate from the Hawthorne Court and I

921
00:45:24,121 --> 00:45:26,161
Speaker 2: builded one of them and he went down with the

922
00:45:26,201 --> 00:45:28,281
Speaker 2: other one. I had to stopped and get to the door.

923
00:45:28,441 --> 00:45:30,201
Speaker 2: I had the handcuffs off phone I was in court

924
00:45:30,241 --> 00:45:32,361
Speaker 2: and I got to the door and he tackled me

925
00:45:32,361 --> 00:45:34,081
Speaker 2: from the top of the steps. It wouldn't believe in

926
00:45:34,121 --> 00:45:37,961
Speaker 2: an AFL money state that someone could table. He just

927
00:45:38,001 --> 00:45:40,321
Speaker 2: had me long enough, his hand on his screaming blue murdered,

928
00:45:40,961 --> 00:45:43,201
Speaker 2: and the cops lumps and well, they took me in

929
00:45:43,201 --> 00:45:46,081
Speaker 2: and gave me a terrible bash. So I'm blewing it,

930
00:45:46,161 --> 00:45:48,041
Speaker 2: and then they took me down hastiously. Now I knew

931
00:45:48,321 --> 00:45:51,001
Speaker 2: it was. It was equivalent to Grafton and Bernie Bernie

932
00:45:51,001 --> 00:45:53,801
Speaker 2: Matthews led to graft him four times. He writes that

933
00:45:53,801 --> 00:45:56,441
Speaker 2: that incredible book going track to him and about that.

934
00:45:56,841 --> 00:45:59,801
Speaker 2: But so I went down and I knew I was

935
00:45:59,801 --> 00:46:03,041
Speaker 2: going to get bassed, but only mean bass. So they

936
00:46:03,081 --> 00:46:06,361
Speaker 2: stripped me off, and as soon I'm stripped off, they

937
00:46:06,401 --> 00:46:09,721
Speaker 2: were bat I got a cop of bloody side of

938
00:46:09,721 --> 00:46:12,241
Speaker 2: the head and I went down and I got kicked

939
00:46:12,241 --> 00:46:14,761
Speaker 2: in the head and kicked in the ribs. I pitched

940
00:46:14,801 --> 00:46:16,521
Speaker 2: soon my lips, trying to stop, and so soon that

941
00:46:16,601 --> 00:46:18,601
Speaker 2: because I was always told when I went to grafting,

942
00:46:19,001 --> 00:46:20,841
Speaker 2: the other guys listening when.

943
00:46:21,201 --> 00:46:22,641
Speaker 4: I show them or tell them.

944
00:46:22,841 --> 00:46:26,761
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I tried, and I pitched my lip, and

945
00:46:27,641 --> 00:46:32,881
Speaker 2: the sky there and so it went on for maybe

946
00:46:33,001 --> 00:46:35,361
Speaker 2: two or three minutes, but it saves a two or

947
00:46:35,441 --> 00:46:37,961
Speaker 2: three minute bad bats and can see my half an

948
00:46:37,961 --> 00:46:41,041
Speaker 2: hour in your own mind that because time is not

949
00:46:41,201 --> 00:46:45,121
Speaker 2: ever what's happening. So then they threw minute or so

950
00:46:45,401 --> 00:46:49,521
Speaker 2: and bloody, fretting more violence, and so it's putting ariftic.

951
00:46:49,561 --> 00:46:51,761
Speaker 2: I always had that, So we decided we're going to

952
00:46:51,841 --> 00:46:56,201
Speaker 2: bust out in sixty eight. We'll get into this. So

953
00:46:56,881 --> 00:46:58,761
Speaker 2: it's called a division. What they do now when they

954
00:46:58,841 --> 00:47:01,601
Speaker 2: run to and stand a patriage, it's called the brew Dog.

955
00:47:02,001 --> 00:47:04,841
Speaker 2: It's actually a pub, and and I saw food and pub.

956
00:47:04,921 --> 00:47:07,601
Speaker 2: They all go down and they're the guys talking about

957
00:47:07,641 --> 00:47:09,121
Speaker 2: and I went down there and did a few tours.

958
00:47:09,281 --> 00:47:11,481
Speaker 2: They talk about what happened. It's this real elevant night

959
00:47:11,841 --> 00:47:18,001
Speaker 2: because what happened. Managed to saw through the bars, got

960
00:47:18,481 --> 00:47:23,121
Speaker 2: into this cage, got through that pushed a hole because

961
00:47:23,161 --> 00:47:25,161
Speaker 2: I knew it was a weak door in the middle

962
00:47:25,161 --> 00:47:27,761
Speaker 2: of the door with a knife and made us a

963
00:47:27,761 --> 00:47:30,841
Speaker 2: good one hand down and unlocked the door because I

964
00:47:30,881 --> 00:47:32,721
Speaker 2: knew they didn't lock it because they're too lazy. They

965
00:47:32,801 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 2: used to come every ound and check us, and they're

966
00:47:34,481 --> 00:47:36,961
Speaker 2: just too lazy to lock it all the time. So

967
00:47:37,001 --> 00:47:38,961
Speaker 2: they unlocked that door, and they'd stand there where the

968
00:47:39,001 --> 00:47:41,361
Speaker 2: cage was. But I'd got into the cage and so

969
00:47:42,121 --> 00:47:46,321
Speaker 2: we knocked up and me and me and we had

970
00:47:47,121 --> 00:47:50,521
Speaker 2: it's pretty heavy thing. We had weights, you know, the

971
00:47:50,561 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 2: bars were weights, and I had one about about that big,

972
00:47:54,001 --> 00:47:56,441
Speaker 2: and he had one. And I said, Jeff, if he

973
00:47:56,481 --> 00:47:59,441
Speaker 2: turns around the face, you hit him in the back

974
00:47:59,481 --> 00:48:02,361
Speaker 2: of the head and we'll tell you the gun. If

975
00:48:02,361 --> 00:48:05,281
Speaker 2: you turned around the face, you on hitting the bag. Well,

976
00:48:05,481 --> 00:48:08,921
Speaker 2: I see as he was coming down, I see that

977
00:48:09,321 --> 00:48:11,361
Speaker 2: Jeff was shaking and he wasn't going to do it,

978
00:48:11,361 --> 00:48:14,601
Speaker 2: so he turned around to face me. I'll never forget it.

979
00:48:14,921 --> 00:48:18,241
Speaker 2: It's it's still a nightmare now, probably the worst thing

980
00:48:18,241 --> 00:48:20,521
Speaker 2: I've ever done. But I had to hit him. I

981
00:48:20,641 --> 00:48:22,761
Speaker 2: hit him and I pulled the he had a hat on,

982
00:48:22,841 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 2: and hit him front over the wine bar across there

983
00:48:26,041 --> 00:48:29,281
Speaker 2: and blood spread it out and he didn't get in.

984
00:48:29,401 --> 00:48:32,041
Speaker 2: He's a big Dutch guy, about six foot five, and

985
00:48:32,121 --> 00:48:33,521
Speaker 2: I hit him again. He didn't get it in. Then

986
00:48:33,561 --> 00:48:35,081
Speaker 2: I dropped the bar and hit him and a chine.

987
00:48:35,121 --> 00:48:38,241
Speaker 2: He went down. I grabbed his pistols and I said, look,

988
00:48:38,241 --> 00:48:41,521
Speaker 2: where's the where's the curves? And then he hit me

989
00:48:41,641 --> 00:48:43,961
Speaker 2: in the cuckle. He said, we haven't got the curves anymore.

990
00:48:44,481 --> 00:48:48,361
Speaker 2: When Ryan won't escaped, they upgraded security. Case did not

991
00:48:48,481 --> 00:48:51,001
Speaker 2: have the cus. We're not locked in there anymore. He

992
00:48:51,041 --> 00:48:54,961
Speaker 2: couldn't get out, so we couldn't get out, and say

993
00:48:55,121 --> 00:49:01,201
Speaker 2: we finished up catalog story short a Carlos. I've written

994
00:49:01,241 --> 00:49:03,441
Speaker 2: this in a book. I've checked all the face Carlans.

995
00:49:03,561 --> 00:49:07,041
Speaker 2: The police came in squad, right squad. They have it

996
00:49:07,121 --> 00:49:11,001
Speaker 2: up an exposive factory to get cheer gas. Then we

997
00:49:11,041 --> 00:49:14,521
Speaker 2: go and police commission that came the Governor's there. They

998
00:49:14,561 --> 00:49:16,361
Speaker 2: had all the lights on last but they saw all

999
00:49:16,361 --> 00:49:18,361
Speaker 2: the lights out and we were barrely carted up top

1000
00:49:18,481 --> 00:49:21,081
Speaker 2: with her and I made out as an experts shot

1001
00:49:21,081 --> 00:49:22,721
Speaker 2: and I said, look it out on a bank, Robin,

1002
00:49:22,921 --> 00:49:25,921
Speaker 2: I can see three hours, you know, so short to

1003
00:49:25,961 --> 00:49:29,161
Speaker 2: blunting them. And anyway, the thing is, I also said

1004
00:49:29,281 --> 00:49:30,561
Speaker 2: there was a dog up there, and you said the

1005
00:49:30,601 --> 00:49:32,921
Speaker 2: space of a little wink. And I start adding tied

1006
00:49:32,961 --> 00:49:35,721
Speaker 2: to the bars, and it sent as energy from I'm

1007
00:49:35,721 --> 00:49:40,121
Speaker 2: going to kill him, and they believe that. And the

1008
00:49:40,201 --> 00:49:42,321
Speaker 2: policeman said he and he grabbed the mic and he said, look,

1009
00:49:42,921 --> 00:49:44,961
Speaker 2: I had enough it is. We're just going to throw

1010
00:49:45,121 --> 00:49:47,001
Speaker 2: tear gas and come in. I said, you're doing. I said,

1011
00:49:47,081 --> 00:49:49,041
Speaker 2: we'll hold. We've got enough to lose this whole line

1012
00:49:49,041 --> 00:49:51,401
Speaker 2: as long as we can. I said to me near dead,

1013
00:49:51,401 --> 00:49:53,761
Speaker 2: and I said, I said, by the time you get

1014
00:49:53,801 --> 00:49:56,121
Speaker 2: on the fish hundred frisons out, I said, somebody, we're

1015
00:49:56,121 --> 00:49:57,201
Speaker 2: going to do it. And I said, if you would

1016
00:49:57,201 --> 00:50:00,401
Speaker 2: to have that on your on your front, past doing

1017
00:50:01,721 --> 00:50:04,721
Speaker 2: and then anyway, I was done. The Governor dowd in

1018
00:50:04,761 --> 00:50:08,801
Speaker 2: the end for five hours two we would if we

1019
00:50:08,881 --> 00:50:11,961
Speaker 2: come down, we wouldn't get based. And we kept on

1020
00:50:12,081 --> 00:50:15,161
Speaker 2: like a court. The squeeze went on strike, friendly going strike.

1021
00:50:15,801 --> 00:50:18,561
Speaker 2: How to do them? But it was done, and I

1022
00:50:18,681 --> 00:50:23,641
Speaker 2: never got based it. You wouldn't wow, I would have no.

1023
00:50:23,841 --> 00:50:26,201
Speaker 2: He kept his He come down every day, come down

1024
00:50:26,241 --> 00:50:29,801
Speaker 2: every day and checked. But they played wine games, terrible

1025
00:50:29,841 --> 00:50:34,401
Speaker 2: mind games. Oh my landers didn't go this that when

1026
00:50:34,441 --> 00:50:37,041
Speaker 2: I had to get a shower and this showers and

1027
00:50:37,041 --> 00:50:39,281
Speaker 2: I'll be working for five days in the lavy yards

1028
00:50:39,321 --> 00:50:42,721
Speaker 2: and uh and just so many things. I was doing,

1029
00:50:42,801 --> 00:50:46,081
Speaker 2: courses that tread all over and rip pages out, and

1030
00:50:46,161 --> 00:50:48,681
Speaker 2: I went on for four years, and you know it

1031
00:50:49,041 --> 00:50:52,121
Speaker 2: was pretty heavy stuff. But all one of trying to

1032
00:50:52,201 --> 00:50:55,041
Speaker 2: point out here is in the boys home. So we

1033
00:50:55,161 --> 00:50:57,641
Speaker 2: know that people got flogged drafting and got flogged. We

1034
00:50:57,761 --> 00:51:01,481
Speaker 2: know what happened cham Worth. There were thirty six murders

1035
00:51:01,521 --> 00:51:03,881
Speaker 2: to true the chamber of boys Homes because of the

1036
00:51:03,881 --> 00:51:05,761
Speaker 2: way they treat him. And what happened to me. I

1037
00:51:05,881 --> 00:51:09,841
Speaker 2: got flogged it. I've already had a bad bass for

1038
00:51:09,961 --> 00:51:11,921
Speaker 2: the cops. Then they took me down and fogged me again.

1039
00:51:12,801 --> 00:51:19,001
Speaker 2: So I used that. I used that as a motivation,

1040
00:51:19,481 --> 00:51:22,281
Speaker 2: and it was degreeing against the blue, you know, and

1041
00:51:22,561 --> 00:51:24,841
Speaker 2: to be able to hit that screen. Because so that's

1042
00:51:24,881 --> 00:51:28,281
Speaker 2: how I justified it. And looking back years later, and

1043
00:51:28,401 --> 00:51:31,681
Speaker 2: I do accept that I was violent to do things

1044
00:51:31,801 --> 00:51:34,841
Speaker 2: like that. I was on to push myself in another

1045
00:51:34,921 --> 00:51:38,801
Speaker 2: mode and I was far removed from that kid that

1046
00:51:38,801 --> 00:51:41,121
Speaker 2: I was talking about it for the first seven of years.

1047
00:51:41,201 --> 00:51:46,041
Speaker 2: His life was a good kid, books kid. But it

1048
00:51:46,201 --> 00:51:50,201
Speaker 2: shows me what I've always said, We've all got good manners.

1049
00:51:51,001 --> 00:51:53,721
Speaker 2: And I don't care who you are, you've got that

1050
00:51:53,921 --> 00:51:56,761
Speaker 2: streaking in it. If you get pushed or something happens

1051
00:51:56,841 --> 00:51:59,921
Speaker 2: or something goes wrong, you can go off the rails.

1052
00:52:00,441 --> 00:52:02,281
Speaker 2: Most of us never do. But most of us never

1053
00:52:02,321 --> 00:52:05,441
Speaker 2: reached the stage across our life where it happens.

1054
00:52:05,881 --> 00:52:08,921
Speaker 3: But thank God for that, John, honestly, because you know,

1055
00:52:09,041 --> 00:52:10,681
Speaker 3: can you only imagine the world if it did, the

1056
00:52:10,681 --> 00:52:13,841
Speaker 3: World's bad enough at times with the power the powers

1057
00:52:13,881 --> 00:52:17,441
Speaker 3: that I had, Like if people were out of control

1058
00:52:17,601 --> 00:52:22,001
Speaker 3: and hit those points, we know what triggering for our

1059
00:52:22,081 --> 00:52:26,001
Speaker 3: forrums man, it could be a horrific place to live in.

1060
00:52:26,481 --> 00:52:29,201
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is, it is. That's that's right. And all

1061
00:52:29,281 --> 00:52:31,121
Speaker 2: we can do now And I know you're doing and

1062
00:52:31,201 --> 00:52:33,041
Speaker 2: I'm doing. We're trying to do good things and help

1063
00:52:33,081 --> 00:52:36,161
Speaker 2: people and give him his back. We get we'll get

1064
00:52:36,281 --> 00:52:39,681
Speaker 2: on the helicopter. So what happened? I was living a

1065
00:52:39,721 --> 00:52:44,681
Speaker 2: pretty good life going okay, ben outs about eight years

1066
00:52:44,761 --> 00:52:52,081
Speaker 2: or so, and then hooked up with Lucy Data, Russian girl.

1067
00:52:53,361 --> 00:52:56,681
Speaker 2: She she'd had a hard time from her husband and

1068
00:52:57,401 --> 00:53:00,321
Speaker 2: just when I met her, she told me she's going

1069
00:53:00,361 --> 00:53:03,641
Speaker 2: to leave him and went from there. So what happened?

1070
00:53:03,841 --> 00:53:07,801
Speaker 2: Eventually we hooked up. He couldn't handle that and uh,

1071
00:53:08,481 --> 00:53:10,961
Speaker 2: we're going together maybe three years and then he managed

1072
00:53:11,001 --> 00:53:13,081
Speaker 2: to call up he asked the judge. The judges we

1073
00:53:13,201 --> 00:53:16,361
Speaker 2: had family court battles over the daughter and she'd live

1074
00:53:16,441 --> 00:53:19,440
Speaker 2: with us most of the time, and so he asked

1075
00:53:19,481 --> 00:53:21,641
Speaker 2: the Judseph could have my record. He said yeah, but

1076
00:53:21,721 --> 00:53:23,601
Speaker 2: you can't shout you anybody. He said, I just wanted

1077
00:53:23,641 --> 00:53:26,681
Speaker 2: to say if he's a drug dueller or a pedophile.

1078
00:53:27,521 --> 00:53:29,521
Speaker 2: And my lawyer said, well, I'm sure you're honored that

1079
00:53:29,561 --> 00:53:32,241
Speaker 2: he's not. But he said you can have that. You

1080
00:53:32,281 --> 00:53:35,961
Speaker 2: can have the record, but you don't show it to him. Well,

1081
00:53:36,001 --> 00:53:38,641
Speaker 2: he said it everywhere, he said, to school, sweat. When

1082
00:53:38,721 --> 00:53:41,361
Speaker 2: he was gone, he said to Hi, can accounties are going?

1083
00:53:41,801 --> 00:53:43,321
Speaker 2: He said it all around the straight he said, the

1084
00:53:43,401 --> 00:53:45,561
Speaker 2: major police station and every state. Well he hit the

1085
00:53:45,641 --> 00:53:49,001
Speaker 2: jack bunt because in Queensland there was an old warrant

1086
00:53:49,881 --> 00:53:54,441
Speaker 2: that it was argument that that I hadn't reported on

1087
00:53:54,641 --> 00:53:56,801
Speaker 2: prole Well, when had happened. I had a transfer and

1088
00:53:57,961 --> 00:54:00,681
Speaker 2: and there was there was a mix up and there

1089
00:54:00,801 --> 00:54:03,761
Speaker 2: was just forgotten about it. And so I mean, I'd

1090
00:54:04,001 --> 00:54:06,801
Speaker 2: been running for thirty years and this thing was there

1091
00:54:06,801 --> 00:54:09,881
Speaker 2: and lion dormant. So next thing they kell and they're

1092
00:54:09,921 --> 00:54:13,481
Speaker 2: going to extra extra night take me. And Lucy was

1093
00:54:13,521 --> 00:54:15,881
Speaker 2: really concerned because she said, look, I'm at his mercy,

1094
00:54:15,961 --> 00:54:19,201
Speaker 2: you go. So we took off and from there I went.

1095
00:54:19,681 --> 00:54:23,241
Speaker 2: I went back into Robin Banks and I got away

1096
00:54:23,361 --> 00:54:26,761
Speaker 2: the first one, second one died by went off. I

1097
00:54:26,801 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 2: got chased mine off judy cop and finished up getting caught,

1098
00:54:29,641 --> 00:54:33,441
Speaker 2: not by him, but trapped into town. Lucy come out

1099
00:54:33,481 --> 00:54:36,641
Speaker 2: and said, John, I've got to get you out, and

1100
00:54:37,281 --> 00:54:39,401
Speaker 2: I said, well, I looked around. I said, I just

1101
00:54:39,401 --> 00:54:41,881
Speaker 2: don't think it's possible to get me out. She said,

1102
00:54:42,001 --> 00:54:43,961
Speaker 2: Jackie got you out, coins out. I'm going to get

1103
00:54:43,961 --> 00:54:46,241
Speaker 2: you out. She was a yeah. She said I'm going

1104
00:54:46,321 --> 00:54:51,481
Speaker 2: to get you out, and so she came, you wouldn't

1105
00:54:51,481 --> 00:54:52,681
Speaker 2: believe this. So I went up to go when on

1106
00:54:52,721 --> 00:54:55,001
Speaker 2: a traffic matter, this is what they do, said we

1107
00:54:55,041 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 2: all do. I have to go on a traffic mount

1108
00:54:56,481 --> 00:54:58,841
Speaker 2: I'm charged with a couple of bank rollies and also

1109
00:54:59,921 --> 00:55:02,081
Speaker 2: shooting at a cop. Fire and over the cop said

1110
00:55:02,361 --> 00:55:07,041
Speaker 2: this is getting off and I get that this comes in.

1111
00:55:07,121 --> 00:55:11,241
Speaker 2: It isn't me and they knew me quin because he's

1112
00:55:11,281 --> 00:55:13,641
Speaker 2: to live up there, and said to let it come

1113
00:55:13,681 --> 00:55:17,601
Speaker 2: in and we're separator. But she's given me a flash.

1114
00:55:18,041 --> 00:55:21,521
Speaker 2: She's got the gun. Got a gun there, said I'll

1115
00:55:21,561 --> 00:55:27,841
Speaker 2: slip this stream in corn and were must out. That's

1116
00:55:27,841 --> 00:55:30,321
Speaker 2: the sort of girl shows, and I said, I said,

1117
00:55:30,361 --> 00:55:32,161
Speaker 2: most we can't do it. I said, have you got

1118
00:55:32,241 --> 00:55:33,801
Speaker 2: a car? And she's come up by trying to say,

1119
00:55:34,001 --> 00:55:36,561
Speaker 2: how are we going to get away? I said, everybody

1120
00:55:36,641 --> 00:55:40,401
Speaker 2: knows this in his town. I said, we'll get killed.

1121
00:55:41,001 --> 00:55:42,681
Speaker 2: And I really appreciate what you're doing. I said, but

1122
00:55:42,801 --> 00:55:44,481
Speaker 2: I'll find a way. You got to hang in. I'll

1123
00:55:44,521 --> 00:55:47,681
Speaker 2: find a way. And so then I started looking really

1124
00:55:47,721 --> 00:55:51,281
Speaker 2: hard and I thought, I thought, we're going to break

1125
00:55:51,361 --> 00:55:54,161
Speaker 2: off the relationship because there's no way out of here.

1126
00:55:55,161 --> 00:55:58,361
Speaker 2: And then I just noticed that. I went out and

1127
00:55:58,361 --> 00:56:01,841
Speaker 2: the able and chen Or twelve choppers came out in

1128
00:56:02,161 --> 00:56:04,841
Speaker 2: an hour. I said, what the fuck are you doing?

1129
00:56:05,841 --> 00:56:07,721
Speaker 2: And then I realized that the Olympics were coming on

1130
00:56:08,441 --> 00:56:14,041
Speaker 2: and people were coming out. Yeah, they were coming out

1131
00:56:14,441 --> 00:56:15,281
Speaker 2: to see the Olympics.

1132
00:56:15,321 --> 00:56:18,081
Speaker 4: Side is literally next door to Silver.

1133
00:56:18,401 --> 00:56:21,121
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the only jut this one state.

1134
00:56:21,681 --> 00:56:23,761
Speaker 4: I remember when you two played there was in Segra.

1135
00:56:24,841 --> 00:56:25,761
Speaker 4: Oh this would be great.

1136
00:56:25,801 --> 00:56:27,681
Speaker 3: Next men, I'm going, oh fuck, I'm up at this

1137
00:56:27,801 --> 00:56:30,081
Speaker 3: fucking little window and I could see the flashing lights

1138
00:56:30,121 --> 00:56:32,881
Speaker 3: and they did this circular tour whatever it was back

1139
00:56:32,921 --> 00:56:33,881
Speaker 3: in two thousand and nine.

1140
00:56:33,921 --> 00:56:38,321
Speaker 4: Ten I got to hear you too from Silver.

1141
00:56:40,841 --> 00:56:44,641
Speaker 2: Yeah stadium, Yeah, right next to it. It's right next

1142
00:56:44,681 --> 00:56:47,241
Speaker 2: to it. It's just it's going to be faint. So

1143
00:56:47,801 --> 00:56:50,480
Speaker 2: I said, she come in and I said listen. I said,

1144
00:56:50,481 --> 00:56:53,721
Speaker 2: I think I'm down a way out shut out. I said,

1145
00:56:54,121 --> 00:56:57,481
Speaker 2: what are you gonna know hijack helicopter? She said, bridge?

1146
00:57:01,001 --> 00:57:03,881
Speaker 2: What other girls going to say that? My questions asked,

1147
00:57:05,081 --> 00:57:08,321
Speaker 2: other girl's going to say that? You know? No, We've

1148
00:57:08,361 --> 00:57:10,801
Speaker 2: got away with a lot of stuff. And so I

1149
00:57:10,881 --> 00:57:13,721
Speaker 2: knew what she was capable of doing, and so we

1150
00:57:13,841 --> 00:57:19,161
Speaker 2: planned it. But I said, I thought I'd cashing because

1151
00:57:19,201 --> 00:57:22,561
Speaker 2: her father used to be a commander, helicopter commander in Russia.

1152
00:57:22,921 --> 00:57:24,721
Speaker 2: And I said, now, what do you know about helicoster

1153
00:57:24,841 --> 00:57:27,641
Speaker 2: She said nothing, I said, but she said, we were

1154
00:57:27,681 --> 00:57:30,721
Speaker 2: never allowed on the base. Well, when they found out that,

1155
00:57:30,841 --> 00:57:33,361
Speaker 2: the media went crazy. They thought that she'd master mind

1156
00:57:33,401 --> 00:57:36,801
Speaker 2: every because of that she didn't know any about. So

1157
00:57:36,921 --> 00:57:39,681
Speaker 2: I'm making my brain how are we going to do this?

1158
00:57:40,601 --> 00:57:43,001
Speaker 2: And then this is where state stepped in. I really

1159
00:57:43,081 --> 00:57:46,281
Speaker 2: believed face. I had to be in that child. And

1160
00:57:46,361 --> 00:57:50,641
Speaker 2: then they bring a guy who had ten thousand hours

1161
00:57:51,001 --> 00:57:54,481
Speaker 2: of practice. He was a helicopter pilot. He was a

1162
00:57:54,521 --> 00:57:58,001
Speaker 2: con man. They brought him from South Africa to Scotland

1163
00:57:58,601 --> 00:58:02,361
Speaker 2: to New Zealand to hear and the timing was precise.

1164
00:58:03,921 --> 00:58:07,321
Speaker 2: And then there's fIF three wings. They put him in

1165
00:58:07,401 --> 00:58:13,721
Speaker 2: my wing right now, the answer now just absolutely astronomic.

1166
00:58:14,321 --> 00:58:16,761
Speaker 4: Oh mate, look, it's just it's crazy.

1167
00:58:17,201 --> 00:58:17,481
Speaker 2: It is.

1168
00:58:17,881 --> 00:58:19,841
Speaker 3: Your life is just one that I just look at

1169
00:58:19,881 --> 00:58:22,201
Speaker 3: and this go. You know, you talk about cats with

1170
00:58:22,321 --> 00:58:25,121
Speaker 3: nine lives. I don't know how many lives you've had.

1171
00:58:25,201 --> 00:58:28,361
Speaker 4: You're definitely not a cat, but far out mate, you've

1172
00:58:28,481 --> 00:58:28,841
Speaker 4: lived some.

1173
00:58:29,241 --> 00:58:35,561
Speaker 2: You've lived your long support but there still here.

1174
00:58:35,561 --> 00:58:38,041
Speaker 3: Telling the story and this is this is I guess

1175
00:58:38,361 --> 00:58:42,321
Speaker 3: having you on today, you know, it for me is

1176
00:58:42,401 --> 00:58:46,241
Speaker 3: about giving people hope that it's never too late. You know,

1177
00:58:46,561 --> 00:58:49,761
Speaker 3: like you can have gone through the things you've gone through.

1178
00:58:50,201 --> 00:58:52,921
Speaker 3: Look death in the eyes so many times. You know,

1179
00:58:53,161 --> 00:58:54,761
Speaker 3: you were a career criminal, there's.

1180
00:58:54,641 --> 00:58:56,761
Speaker 2: No two ways, absolutely notorious.

1181
00:58:58,041 --> 00:59:01,841
Speaker 3: And yet you know the flip side of that, at

1182
00:59:01,921 --> 00:59:04,201
Speaker 3: the latter part of your life, you've done so good.

1183
00:59:04,481 --> 00:59:07,961
Speaker 3: You know, you I've really found the tools that actually

1184
00:59:08,201 --> 00:59:10,561
Speaker 3: allow you to be the best version of yourself, to

1185
00:59:10,681 --> 00:59:14,721
Speaker 3: be a great role model within you know, educating people

1186
00:59:14,841 --> 00:59:16,001
Speaker 3: through your lived experience.

1187
00:59:16,481 --> 00:59:18,321
Speaker 4: So therefore all these stories.

1188
00:59:18,001 --> 00:59:22,601
Speaker 3: That you're sharing have been stories that have gone into universities,

1189
00:59:23,161 --> 00:59:28,281
Speaker 3: into books that now are relative to people understanding the mindset,

1190
00:59:29,321 --> 00:59:35,721
Speaker 3: how things can go wrong, what comes of circumstances, and mate,

1191
00:59:36,281 --> 00:59:39,801
Speaker 3: you know what not to worry about doing in life.

1192
00:59:39,881 --> 00:59:44,161
Speaker 3: That's going to cost you pretty well half your life incarcerated.

1193
00:59:44,361 --> 00:59:47,801
Speaker 2: But you are one hundred percent right. And when I

1194
00:59:47,881 --> 00:59:51,041
Speaker 2: got out, I spent the first three years going all

1195
00:59:51,081 --> 00:59:55,361
Speaker 2: the way up to Raise Meadows, where a great idea

1196
00:59:55,561 --> 01:00:00,081
Speaker 2: Belli is still doing it. He around a program young

1197
01:00:00,161 --> 01:00:03,521
Speaker 2: expirit mentoring program for young people. I went there and

1198
01:00:03,601 --> 01:00:05,201
Speaker 2: I used to get up at four thirty. I had

1199
01:00:05,241 --> 01:00:07,681
Speaker 2: to get up there and they'd picked the kids up

1200
01:00:07,721 --> 01:00:10,321
Speaker 2: from school from home, some of them never had a breakfast,

1201
01:00:10,641 --> 01:00:13,201
Speaker 2: bring them down. These kids are running privilege to hell.

1202
01:00:14,921 --> 01:00:17,041
Speaker 4: Rose Meadow is I grew up in ambivol around there

1203
01:00:17,081 --> 01:00:17,881
Speaker 4: and need some bravery.

1204
01:00:17,961 --> 01:00:20,721
Speaker 3: So and I know exactly where we used to literally

1205
01:00:20,881 --> 01:00:22,361
Speaker 3: like every second house is burnt down.

1206
01:00:22,481 --> 01:00:25,921
Speaker 4: It was empties like Redfern used to be. That's how

1207
01:00:25,921 --> 01:00:27,841
Speaker 4: it it was growing up. That's exactly what it was.

1208
01:00:28,201 --> 01:00:30,561
Speaker 2: Well, that's exactly right. And so they'd pick them up

1209
01:00:30,601 --> 01:00:36,241
Speaker 2: from school, train them for an hour. You know, we're boxing, skipping, this, jogging,

1210
01:00:36,761 --> 01:00:39,041
Speaker 2: whatever we want, what they want to do. But then

1211
01:00:39,081 --> 01:00:42,881
Speaker 2: we had people from the church Islanders, lovely people. I'm

1212
01:00:43,081 --> 01:00:46,081
Speaker 2: cooking wheels from them. And then I'd speak to these

1213
01:00:46,161 --> 01:00:50,321
Speaker 2: kids and I'd say look and they say, oh, you've done.

1214
01:00:50,481 --> 01:00:53,361
Speaker 2: I say, look what I've done, the stuff my life

1215
01:00:53,441 --> 01:00:56,841
Speaker 2: up And I said, you guys, you won't got a chance.

1216
01:00:57,161 --> 01:00:59,721
Speaker 2: Don't look up to people like me. I said, because

1217
01:01:00,001 --> 01:01:02,801
Speaker 2: people like me did the wrong thing. We got caught.

1218
01:01:03,281 --> 01:01:05,401
Speaker 2: I've wasted my life. I've heard a lot of people

1219
01:01:05,841 --> 01:01:09,321
Speaker 2: and I do accept you. And now when I even

1220
01:01:09,361 --> 01:01:11,881
Speaker 2: when I go and give talks, doesn't matter where I go, libraries,

1221
01:01:11,921 --> 01:01:13,641
Speaker 2: doesn't matter where it is. I do get it at

1222
01:01:13,681 --> 01:01:16,401
Speaker 2: cross because I know there could be victims out there

1223
01:01:16,681 --> 01:01:19,681
Speaker 2: that are listener. They could have relatives that are in

1224
01:01:19,721 --> 01:01:22,121
Speaker 2: a bank. Every now and again, someone rings up when

1225
01:01:22,121 --> 01:01:24,521
Speaker 2: I'm on radio or something and saying, look, John, my

1226
01:01:24,721 --> 01:01:26,481
Speaker 2: sister was in a bank, got robs. She was never

1227
01:01:26,561 --> 01:01:29,001
Speaker 2: the same. And I accept that there might be twenty

1228
01:01:29,041 --> 01:01:31,401
Speaker 2: people in a bank. Eight of them are okay. There

1229
01:01:31,481 --> 01:01:34,761
Speaker 2: might be two people that do get traumatized. And the

1230
01:01:34,881 --> 01:01:37,841
Speaker 2: thing is you're responsible for it. And what I had

1231
01:01:37,921 --> 01:01:40,361
Speaker 2: to learn the hard way because I grew up hating

1232
01:01:40,441 --> 01:01:43,241
Speaker 2: banks because they fall clothes on our house. My mother

1233
01:01:43,281 --> 01:01:45,401
Speaker 2: committed suicide. And it was part of a reason, I feel.

1234
01:01:45,801 --> 01:01:49,961
Speaker 2: And it's just that you're not going in, you're not

1235
01:01:50,081 --> 01:01:51,841
Speaker 2: robbing a bank. You're not taking on a bank. You're

1236
01:01:51,881 --> 01:01:54,721
Speaker 2: taking on the people in the banks. You're taking on

1237
01:01:54,841 --> 01:01:56,761
Speaker 2: the tellers, you're taking on just.

1238
01:01:56,801 --> 01:01:58,761
Speaker 3: The average Joe that's going to work for the day

1239
01:01:58,841 --> 01:02:01,001
Speaker 3: to earn their livings for their family.

1240
01:02:01,521 --> 01:02:04,441
Speaker 2: That's that's what it is. And you imagine Gloria, she's

1241
01:02:04,481 --> 01:02:07,201
Speaker 2: eighty three, if she was in a bank today, and

1242
01:02:07,321 --> 01:02:09,041
Speaker 2: I moaned this, I know, Glory well, she was in

1243
01:02:09,121 --> 01:02:11,641
Speaker 2: a bank today, someone ran there with ballet clava and

1244
01:02:11,761 --> 01:02:15,401
Speaker 2: a bloody weapon going out. She could have a heart

1245
01:02:15,401 --> 01:02:19,201
Speaker 2: attack that that, And and I think, and you know

1246
01:02:19,281 --> 01:02:21,041
Speaker 2: what really saw the for me, and that I worked

1247
01:02:21,041 --> 01:02:25,841
Speaker 2: with psychs and and I give it credit to the

1248
01:02:26,041 --> 01:02:28,721
Speaker 2: Creek Service. The one program that I think deserves a

1249
01:02:28,761 --> 01:02:33,521
Speaker 2: lot of praise, it's the violent video repeutter.

1250
01:02:34,001 --> 01:02:35,401
Speaker 4: I remember when they kicked that off back in the

1251
01:02:36,201 --> 01:02:36,561
Speaker 4: r I C.

1252
01:02:36,761 --> 01:02:37,281
Speaker 2: Back in the day.

1253
01:02:37,281 --> 01:02:39,961
Speaker 4: I think it was in the old ten Wing wasn't it.

1254
01:02:40,801 --> 01:02:41,961
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, that's right.

1255
01:02:42,161 --> 01:02:46,081
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's about right. I was because that was

1256
01:02:46,161 --> 01:02:48,401
Speaker 4: all the trainees in the AIDS unit. Wasn't them all

1257
01:02:48,441 --> 01:02:49,881
Speaker 4: out of there? And they turned it into the Violent

1258
01:02:49,881 --> 01:02:50,521
Speaker 4: Defenders program.

1259
01:02:50,801 --> 01:02:54,121
Speaker 2: Then went to party riding I did partly and partly

1260
01:02:54,281 --> 01:02:55,281
Speaker 2: was good jar then uh.

1261
01:02:55,801 --> 01:03:00,001
Speaker 4: But the circle that was straight across from Seven Wings, Yeah.

1262
01:03:00,161 --> 01:03:02,321
Speaker 2: Well you've got a spot on it. And that they

1263
01:03:02,561 --> 01:03:05,801
Speaker 2: dedicated those that work on that, and I still keep

1264
01:03:05,881 --> 01:03:08,001
Speaker 2: in touch with them today. And some of the guys

1265
01:03:08,161 --> 01:03:12,361
Speaker 2: come out and they were an ankle bracelets and they

1266
01:03:12,441 --> 01:03:14,961
Speaker 2: still come out to do the program, and we had

1267
01:03:15,001 --> 01:03:17,721
Speaker 2: a Christmas party and I still go to that which

1268
01:03:17,841 --> 01:03:20,601
Speaker 2: will be in a couple of weeks and glory comes true.

1269
01:03:21,001 --> 01:03:24,081
Speaker 2: But the thing is I worked with those and they

1270
01:03:24,201 --> 01:03:26,681
Speaker 2: got to the course. To me, John, it's not you

1271
01:03:26,801 --> 01:03:29,401
Speaker 2: against the banks, it's you against the pree winner. And

1272
01:03:29,481 --> 01:03:32,761
Speaker 2: I accepted that. And when I got out, it wasn't

1273
01:03:32,801 --> 01:03:34,841
Speaker 2: long an I went to a bank in the city.

1274
01:03:35,521 --> 01:03:37,321
Speaker 2: I walked into the bank and it was deserted. It

1275
01:03:37,401 --> 01:03:40,161
Speaker 2: was going and it's different. Someone has set up these days,

1276
01:03:40,161 --> 01:03:43,121
Speaker 2: particularly the in the city, and there was just one

1277
01:03:43,601 --> 01:03:47,681
Speaker 2: girl there. Now my name is Verson was killing. That's

1278
01:03:47,721 --> 01:03:53,121
Speaker 2: on my birth tavering. John's the nickname. And I just

1279
01:03:53,201 --> 01:03:56,201
Speaker 2: did a banking for about about a minute and I

1280
01:03:56,241 --> 01:03:58,881
Speaker 2: was just about to leave. I said thank you, and

1281
01:03:59,001 --> 01:04:03,081
Speaker 2: she said, using a really nice stage on it. Now

1282
01:04:04,201 --> 01:04:07,401
Speaker 2: there was nothing about on the bank sex. I looked

1283
01:04:07,401 --> 01:04:07,681
Speaker 2: at her.

1284
01:04:09,121 --> 01:04:10,561
Speaker 4: How did she know your name was John?

1285
01:04:11,241 --> 01:04:13,481
Speaker 2: She knew who I was. I burn on the news

1286
01:04:13,521 --> 01:04:16,321
Speaker 2: a bit. She knew who I was, and she wasn't scared.

1287
01:04:16,361 --> 01:04:19,281
Speaker 2: And I thought, isn't this good that she's not scared.

1288
01:04:19,521 --> 01:04:21,041
Speaker 2: She told me to have a nice day, and I'm

1289
01:04:21,041 --> 01:04:23,121
Speaker 2: going to walk out of here and not run. And

1290
01:04:23,241 --> 01:04:26,801
Speaker 2: I thought there was a time twenty five years ago

1291
01:04:27,001 --> 01:04:29,121
Speaker 2: when i'd have run into this bank with the lady

1292
01:04:29,161 --> 01:04:32,041
Speaker 2: site gun and held her in fear. Yeah, and I'd

1293
01:04:32,081 --> 01:04:33,401
Speaker 2: look at it. I looked at her and I said,

1294
01:04:33,761 --> 01:04:35,521
Speaker 2: could I have really done that? It was only cap

1295
01:04:35,561 --> 01:04:37,801
Speaker 2: we're doing that? And yes I was. So that's the

1296
01:04:37,881 --> 01:04:40,521
Speaker 2: different that's a different going today. And you know I

1297
01:04:40,681 --> 01:04:43,761
Speaker 2: have and I don't. I don't broadcast most of the

1298
01:04:43,841 --> 01:04:46,321
Speaker 2: money I've made, some books I've donated.

1299
01:04:46,841 --> 01:04:48,841
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's what a lot of people don't know

1300
01:04:48,921 --> 01:04:52,601
Speaker 3: that you've definitely not you know, survived off the stories

1301
01:04:52,641 --> 01:04:55,921
Speaker 3: of crime you've given back and you know, like we

1302
01:04:56,041 --> 01:04:59,121
Speaker 3: do have these laws in Australia that you know say

1303
01:04:59,201 --> 01:05:02,681
Speaker 3: that you can't make money off you know, telling stories

1304
01:05:02,721 --> 01:05:05,681
Speaker 3: basically through crime stories or whatever. I mean, you'd know

1305
01:05:05,801 --> 01:05:08,601
Speaker 3: more about it than me and the legislation. But without

1306
01:05:08,681 --> 01:05:10,961
Speaker 3: going too far around the rabbit hole, that is a

1307
01:05:11,041 --> 01:05:14,761
Speaker 3: fact that you you know, the commissions that you did

1308
01:05:14,881 --> 01:05:18,401
Speaker 3: receive and stuff you were giving away to charities overseas

1309
01:05:18,441 --> 01:05:20,841
Speaker 3: to help underprivilege and I recommend you on that mate.

1310
01:05:21,081 --> 01:05:23,281
Speaker 2: Well, well I'm still doing it. I've cut down, but

1311
01:05:23,521 --> 01:05:28,521
Speaker 2: I'm still doing it. And look I've seen kids small

1312
01:05:28,601 --> 01:05:31,721
Speaker 2: comforty school and had wear shoes is instead of barefoot,

1313
01:05:32,281 --> 01:05:36,481
Speaker 2: get textbooks when I'm hungry. Sometimes just little families that

1314
01:05:36,521 --> 01:05:38,801
Speaker 2: I have helped, and you know it's maybe proud to

1315
01:05:38,841 --> 01:05:42,201
Speaker 2: do it and gloring to I try to go to Kirkystan.

1316
01:05:42,281 --> 01:05:45,241
Speaker 2: The mother I was looking as three three kids over

1317
01:05:45,281 --> 01:05:49,241
Speaker 2: there that they auto stick and the mother got sick

1318
01:05:49,321 --> 01:05:50,441
Speaker 2: and they were going to put them in a home.

1319
01:05:50,481 --> 01:05:52,961
Speaker 2: And if they had gone a home separated that family,

1320
01:05:53,121 --> 01:05:55,961
Speaker 2: those kids, because they they only know each other, they

1321
01:05:56,001 --> 01:05:59,041
Speaker 2: were not have survived that. His flo and I as

1322
01:05:59,161 --> 01:06:02,721
Speaker 2: to go down. The prime Offster laughed at me. He said,

1323
01:06:02,761 --> 01:06:04,801
Speaker 2: you can't even go to camera and that ain't over there.

1324
01:06:05,521 --> 01:06:09,921
Speaker 2: So Gloria went and she went over there and she's

1325
01:06:09,961 --> 01:06:13,281
Speaker 2: saying those kids and they couldn't believe it. She actually

1326
01:06:13,321 --> 01:06:15,281
Speaker 2: stepped out and we used to talk on what's happened

1327
01:06:15,321 --> 01:06:19,001
Speaker 2: at playing music and stuff for them. And when she's there,

1328
01:06:19,161 --> 01:06:20,841
Speaker 2: they run up and hung on his own. They just

1329
01:06:20,841 --> 01:06:23,401
Speaker 2: couldn't believe it. There's are autistic kids here. She was

1330
01:06:23,521 --> 01:06:27,721
Speaker 2: was Glory, come all this way and and she say

1331
01:06:27,841 --> 01:06:31,361
Speaker 2: those kids the mother got out and their back. But

1332
01:06:32,761 --> 01:06:36,601
Speaker 2: you know, we helped them. We help people in Philippines obviously.

1333
01:06:36,681 --> 01:06:39,401
Speaker 2: One girl in the Philipprince go from a school kid

1334
01:06:39,521 --> 01:06:42,201
Speaker 2: now to marry with a three year old three old boy,

1335
01:06:42,241 --> 01:06:45,561
Speaker 2: and you know, and they would write me over I

1336
01:06:45,641 --> 01:06:47,961
Speaker 2: may even go over later next year. And if I do,

1337
01:06:48,081 --> 01:06:50,121
Speaker 2: I know I'll be I know I'll be welcome over there.

1338
01:06:50,841 --> 01:06:52,801
Speaker 4: I think. To the other side of it, John is

1339
01:06:52,841 --> 01:06:54,801
Speaker 4: you've helped a lot of people here in Australia as

1340
01:06:54,841 --> 01:06:56,041
Speaker 4: well tell their stories.

1341
01:06:56,241 --> 01:07:00,081
Speaker 3: You know, you've been a voice and been an amazing

1342
01:07:00,441 --> 01:07:04,201
Speaker 3: author for many people. And look, you know if we

1343
01:07:04,281 --> 01:07:06,401
Speaker 3: were to sit here and go through each book individually,

1344
01:07:06,521 --> 01:07:09,001
Speaker 3: we'll be here for hours, and unfortunately we don't have

1345
01:07:09,121 --> 01:07:12,241
Speaker 3: that time on our side. But what I do want

1346
01:07:12,281 --> 01:07:15,121
Speaker 3: to say is, you know, the commitment that you've put

1347
01:07:15,201 --> 01:07:19,521
Speaker 3: into sharing other people's stories and bringing to life the

1348
01:07:19,601 --> 01:07:23,241
Speaker 3: truths and some some very traumatic stories. If I can

1349
01:07:23,321 --> 01:07:28,081
Speaker 3: say that factual or factual has been phenomenal, Your writing

1350
01:07:28,241 --> 01:07:31,721
Speaker 3: is just next level. And what truly inspires me about

1351
01:07:31,801 --> 01:07:34,401
Speaker 3: you is one how you've been able to do it.

1352
01:07:34,481 --> 01:07:36,401
Speaker 3: I struggle to sit down and read through a book,

1353
01:07:36,481 --> 01:07:39,161
Speaker 3: let alone find the patience to write. You know, like

1354
01:07:39,281 --> 01:07:41,481
Speaker 3: people say, you know you've got a story, and I said,

1355
01:07:41,641 --> 01:07:45,001
Speaker 3: you know, I will one day get it. But you

1356
01:07:45,401 --> 01:07:47,841
Speaker 3: do this, and you do it consistent and you're still

1357
01:07:47,921 --> 01:07:52,161
Speaker 3: doing it. And I just think that you know that

1358
01:07:52,401 --> 01:07:55,081
Speaker 3: alone is inspiring to others out there, And I want

1359
01:07:55,121 --> 01:07:58,241
Speaker 3: to ask you, Yeah, you know, for those out there

1360
01:07:58,281 --> 01:08:01,441
Speaker 3: that are listening today that truly have a dream or

1361
01:08:01,481 --> 01:08:03,961
Speaker 3: a vision, and it doesn't matter what age or what

1362
01:08:04,081 --> 01:08:07,081
Speaker 3: stage in your life you're at, John, what would be

1363
01:08:07,201 --> 01:08:10,201
Speaker 3: two really important factors that you would leave in a

1364
01:08:10,281 --> 01:08:15,001
Speaker 3: toolbox for somebody after today's podcasts that would enable them

1365
01:08:15,121 --> 01:08:18,241
Speaker 3: to be able to believe in themselves or chase their dreams,

1366
01:08:18,561 --> 01:08:20,521
Speaker 3: or take those steps that are necessary.

1367
01:08:20,601 --> 01:08:23,241
Speaker 2: What would you say, Well, I've always said I think

1368
01:08:23,281 --> 01:08:25,721
Speaker 2: the most important thing is, and we don't do it,

1369
01:08:26,081 --> 01:08:29,281
Speaker 2: is to believe in ourselves because we get disillusioned, we

1370
01:08:29,401 --> 01:08:32,720
Speaker 2: lose our confidence. People around us often put us down.

1371
01:08:33,721 --> 01:08:36,761
Speaker 2: Particularly a lot of women lose confidence in themselves. And

1372
01:08:37,441 --> 01:08:40,081
Speaker 2: I've found a lot of those women that I've talked

1373
01:08:40,121 --> 01:08:42,321
Speaker 2: over the years. I'm going back quite a bit, but

1374
01:08:43,161 --> 01:08:47,561
Speaker 2: those women, once they found themselves, they were strong women

1375
01:08:47,841 --> 01:08:52,201
Speaker 2: and they were run it to to really find themselves

1376
01:08:52,281 --> 01:08:58,041
Speaker 2: and realize, Wow, you know, I'm somebody. And because we're

1377
01:08:58,081 --> 01:09:01,361
Speaker 2: all somebody, we're also you know that. I mean, what

1378
01:09:01,561 --> 01:09:04,681
Speaker 2: you're doing is amazing too, it really is. And all

1379
01:09:04,761 --> 01:09:07,680
Speaker 2: your podcast, we'll live on so many people that you've

1380
01:09:07,801 --> 01:09:13,401
Speaker 2: that you've interviewed, and it's just we can't. I think

1381
01:09:14,081 --> 01:09:16,161
Speaker 2: what we've got to have it to do with young

1382
01:09:16,201 --> 01:09:20,561
Speaker 2: people particularly is thinking it's too hard, something's too hard.

1383
01:09:21,281 --> 01:09:23,680
Speaker 2: And I was like that when I was young, because

1384
01:09:23,841 --> 01:09:27,161
Speaker 2: you know, I had that. I'm not it's an inferioromical

1385
01:09:27,241 --> 01:09:30,761
Speaker 2: but I can't. I'm not cable doing that. But you

1386
01:09:30,841 --> 01:09:34,321
Speaker 2: know what most of the time. And it's been proven

1387
01:09:34,361 --> 01:09:38,041
Speaker 2: with human nature that until until it chips it down

1388
01:09:38,081 --> 01:09:40,121
Speaker 2: and the press it on, you.

1389
01:09:40,121 --> 01:09:43,401
Speaker 4: Don't know what you Ain't that true? Ain't that true?

1390
01:09:43,601 --> 01:09:45,281
Speaker 3: Like how many times do we look in the mirrors

1391
01:09:45,321 --> 01:09:47,001
Speaker 3: go fuck, I can't get through this, I'm not going

1392
01:09:47,041 --> 01:09:48,241
Speaker 3: to be able to do it. Or we're just sitting

1393
01:09:48,281 --> 01:09:52,321
Speaker 3: in you know, the darkness and feeling depressed and you

1394
01:09:52,561 --> 01:09:56,521
Speaker 3: just but then you know you're right, You're right, and

1395
01:09:57,361 --> 01:09:59,401
Speaker 3: it doesn't feel like it at the time, but you

1396
01:09:59,601 --> 01:10:02,321
Speaker 3: will come through if you just back yourself.

1397
01:10:02,801 --> 01:10:07,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, you often see that have made those remarkable comebacks,

1398
01:10:07,961 --> 01:10:11,761
Speaker 2: and it's because it's the human Spirit's an incredible thing.

1399
01:10:11,921 --> 01:10:14,521
Speaker 2: It's they write books about they make movies about it,

1400
01:10:14,681 --> 01:10:17,521
Speaker 2: and and there are a lot of people out there

1401
01:10:18,801 --> 01:10:21,761
Speaker 2: that still got to do these things. But they have

1402
01:10:21,881 --> 01:10:24,441
Speaker 2: to believe in themselves. And you know, I'll be honest

1403
01:10:24,481 --> 01:10:26,161
Speaker 2: with you, I don't know how I would have handle

1404
01:10:26,201 --> 01:10:28,521
Speaker 2: what's happened to you? And then who askually is? You know?

1405
01:10:28,961 --> 01:10:31,961
Speaker 2: It's you know you're you're a tough guy in many ways,

1406
01:10:32,121 --> 01:10:35,481
Speaker 2: you really are. And you know, I write writings for

1407
01:10:35,681 --> 01:10:38,161
Speaker 2: help Ronnie. Ronnie will write it now helped to put

1408
01:10:38,161 --> 01:10:41,441
Speaker 2: it together. But that guy went through help. Russell went

1409
01:10:41,481 --> 01:10:43,921
Speaker 2: through help, you know. But they went on and did

1410
01:10:44,001 --> 01:10:47,921
Speaker 2: really good things and got great stories. And I think

1411
01:10:48,521 --> 01:10:51,161
Speaker 2: whatever happens yours, you have to do a book. It's

1412
01:10:51,201 --> 01:10:52,121
Speaker 2: got to come out one day.

1413
01:10:52,921 --> 01:10:55,001
Speaker 3: I'm going to be honest, I would be honored to

1414
01:10:55,121 --> 01:10:58,241
Speaker 3: have you be a part of that journey because I

1415
01:10:58,321 --> 01:11:00,841
Speaker 3: couldn't think of a better author to be able to

1416
01:11:00,921 --> 01:11:05,881
Speaker 3: sit down with and you know, translate all that onto paper.

1417
01:11:05,721 --> 01:11:06,721
Speaker 2: Or however we did it.

1418
01:11:06,841 --> 01:11:11,281
Speaker 4: But look, I I it's always for me a pleasure.

1419
01:11:11,481 --> 01:11:16,601
Speaker 3: Our conversations are always genuine, they're always filled with positivity.

1420
01:11:17,081 --> 01:11:17,241
Speaker 2: You know.

1421
01:11:17,361 --> 01:11:21,641
Speaker 4: And I am blessed. I'm grateful, you know.

1422
01:11:21,841 --> 01:11:26,641
Speaker 3: I men like yourself, and I truly loved and adored

1423
01:11:26,761 --> 01:11:28,961
Speaker 3: Bernie Matthews, you know, like God bless him. He's no

1424
01:11:29,041 --> 01:11:34,081
Speaker 3: longer with us, Ronnie, ISSUE would like Ronnie will ring

1425
01:11:34,161 --> 01:11:35,761
Speaker 3: me and he will check in on me, like he

1426
01:11:36,041 --> 01:11:38,241
Speaker 3: just is phenomenal. And that's a man that's going through

1427
01:11:38,281 --> 01:11:39,241
Speaker 3: his own journey at the.

1428
01:11:39,241 --> 01:11:41,841
Speaker 4: Moment, as you know many of you older men are.

1429
01:11:42,641 --> 01:11:45,601
Speaker 4: And it's very much a privilege for me to be

1430
01:11:45,801 --> 01:11:46,841
Speaker 4: sitting here right now.

1431
01:11:47,001 --> 01:11:48,881
Speaker 3: Not in a million years did I think, you know,

1432
01:11:49,001 --> 01:11:52,281
Speaker 3: kid from the streets and the housing commissions of Ads

1433
01:11:52,321 --> 01:11:56,441
Speaker 3: and Brabera and Cammebeltown, would ever be able to be

1434
01:11:56,521 --> 01:11:59,720
Speaker 3: sitting here doing what I do and trying to give

1435
01:11:59,801 --> 01:12:02,681
Speaker 3: people a light and know that there is hope and

1436
01:12:03,401 --> 01:12:05,441
Speaker 3: that we us men.

1437
01:12:05,601 --> 01:12:07,801
Speaker 4: And I'm just a small fish in a big pond.

1438
01:12:07,841 --> 01:12:09,121
Speaker 2: But you're a good communicator.

1439
01:12:09,681 --> 01:12:11,881
Speaker 4: Well, I just tried to be the best I can

1440
01:12:11,961 --> 01:12:15,841
Speaker 4: be at what I've been given. You like, you're a

1441
01:12:15,921 --> 01:12:16,441
Speaker 4: great writer.

1442
01:12:17,401 --> 01:12:19,321
Speaker 3: You know, I love what I do and I think

1443
01:12:19,401 --> 01:12:23,281
Speaker 3: that there's something that if your passionate and genuinely have

1444
01:12:23,401 --> 01:12:24,481
Speaker 3: a love for something.

1445
01:12:24,761 --> 01:12:25,481
Speaker 2: It's not work.

1446
01:12:25,721 --> 01:12:28,720
Speaker 4: It's a pleasure, that's right, John.

1447
01:12:28,761 --> 01:12:31,641
Speaker 3: Look, mate, I'm going to say thank you very very

1448
01:12:31,721 --> 01:12:35,121
Speaker 3: much for being here today. You truly are someone who

1449
01:12:35,201 --> 01:12:37,361
Speaker 3: I just really enjoyed chatting with.

1450
01:12:37,561 --> 01:12:38,361
Speaker 2: I appreciate it.

1451
01:12:41,081 --> 01:12:43,401
Speaker 4: We are mate, and you know what, it's a beautiful thing.

1452
01:12:43,481 --> 01:12:45,961
Speaker 3: And I feel very privileged, as I've said already, because

1453
01:12:46,161 --> 01:12:47,961
Speaker 3: it is. I get a little I look, I mean,

1454
01:12:48,081 --> 01:12:50,841
Speaker 3: you know, I occasionally get a little bit sort of starstruck,

1455
01:12:50,881 --> 01:12:55,561
Speaker 3: if you will, or you know, and I just mate

1456
01:12:55,681 --> 01:12:59,041
Speaker 3: you you are a part of Australian folklore. You're a

1457
01:12:59,081 --> 01:13:02,361
Speaker 3: part of Australian history. You're an amazing man that set

1458
01:13:02,441 --> 01:13:04,641
Speaker 3: the bar, you know, and shown people that there is

1459
01:13:05,321 --> 01:13:06,401
Speaker 3: light at the end of tunnel.

1460
01:13:06,761 --> 01:13:09,721
Speaker 4: You just I don't know.

1461
01:13:09,841 --> 01:13:12,161
Speaker 3: I don't know anybody else that's lived your life and

1462
01:13:12,281 --> 01:13:15,641
Speaker 3: been at your point of life now and still pushing

1463
01:13:15,721 --> 01:13:19,401
Speaker 3: through and the greatest memory and still delivering books for

1464
01:13:19,521 --> 01:13:23,721
Speaker 3: people to read. And congratulations on all your successes, and

1465
01:13:24,121 --> 01:13:26,201
Speaker 3: I truly truly want to commend you, mate.

1466
01:13:26,401 --> 01:13:27,721
Speaker 4: It is inspiring and I.

1467
01:13:27,801 --> 01:13:30,121
Speaker 3: Hope that everybody out there takes the positive side of

1468
01:13:30,201 --> 01:13:33,881
Speaker 3: today's chat because you know, there is so much good

1469
01:13:33,961 --> 01:13:37,001
Speaker 3: in what you've gone through through a lot of your

1470
01:13:37,041 --> 01:13:39,761
Speaker 3: traumas and the things in life you've had to go through.

1471
01:13:39,921 --> 01:13:42,201
Speaker 4: And look as sleep as.

1472
01:13:42,121 --> 01:13:44,081
Speaker 3: We get older, we make our decisions and they were

1473
01:13:44,161 --> 01:13:47,201
Speaker 3: your choices, but prior to that, it wasn't your choice.

1474
01:13:47,361 --> 01:13:49,481
Speaker 3: You know, you're a product of an environment that was

1475
01:13:49,641 --> 01:13:54,601
Speaker 3: terrible and John, Mate, I wish you nothing but the

1476
01:13:54,681 --> 01:13:57,081
Speaker 3: rest of your years to be amazing, in great health

1477
01:13:57,161 --> 01:13:58,201
Speaker 3: and well.

1478
01:13:59,161 --> 01:14:02,001
Speaker 2: I appreciate that and I really do have that. You know,

1479
01:14:02,121 --> 01:14:05,361
Speaker 2: maybe we won't get together on a book, it's not

1480
01:14:05,441 --> 01:14:07,521
Speaker 2: the right time, but done we've got a little bit

1481
01:14:07,561 --> 01:14:14,481
Speaker 2: to go yet. Yeah, well, I'd be very proud to

1482
01:14:14,561 --> 01:14:17,121
Speaker 2: do it, and you know what, I think it'll do well.

1483
01:14:17,761 --> 01:14:19,321
Speaker 4: Thank you mate, and I look forward to that.

1484
01:14:19,721 --> 01:14:21,801
Speaker 3: There you have it, guys, the one and only. There

1485
01:14:21,801 --> 01:14:24,561
Speaker 3: will never be another John Kleelick. That is one hundred

1486
01:14:24,601 --> 01:14:26,281
Speaker 3: percent I can guarantee.

1487
01:14:26,441 --> 01:14:29,841
Speaker 4: But I hope you've enjoyed today's episode of The Clink.

1488
01:14:30,081 --> 01:14:30,760
Speaker 4: Very inspiring.

1489
01:14:30,841 --> 01:14:34,641
Speaker 3: Man. It's never too late, guys, and take something from

1490
01:14:34,801 --> 01:14:38,121
Speaker 3: John's story that there is most definitely light at the

1491
01:14:38,201 --> 01:14:41,361
Speaker 3: end of the tunnel. Remember to get in two sideways, surf,

1492
01:14:41,761 --> 01:14:44,681
Speaker 3: grab your clinking apparel. Thank you everybody for tuning in,

1493
01:14:44,721 --> 01:14:47,321
Speaker 3: and I look forward to our next episode of The Click.

1494
01:14:48,121 --> 01:14:50,561
Speaker 2: Thank you everybody, Thank you. It was really a pleasure.

1495
01:14:50,721 --> 01:14:50,961
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1496
01:14:55,401 --> 01:14:56,041
Speaker 4: For the record.

1497
01:14:56,241 --> 01:14:59,481
Speaker 1: Don't try and make you uncomfortable for the record. You

1498
01:14:59,721 --> 01:15:03,161
Speaker 1: try world and stuff for your photo record lab on

1499
01:15:03,281 --> 01:15:06,481
Speaker 1: me going hard the work for the record. Ain't trying

1500
01:15:06,481 --> 01:15:09,161
Speaker 1: to link, No, trying to waste for the record.

1501
01:15:10,201 --> 01:15:15,161
Speaker 2: For the record. Yeah for the for the record, for

1502
01:15:15,321 --> 01:15:23,121
Speaker 2: the record. Yea for the record, for the record. H

1503
01:15:23,481 --> 01:15:23,881
Speaker 2: m hmm.