1
00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:07,840
Speaker 1: Welcome to Fear Any Greed Q and A, where we

2
00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:12,200
Speaker 1: ask and answer questions about business, investing, economics, politics and more.

3
00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:15,319
Speaker 1: I'm Sean Aylmer. Crypto investors have had a pretty wild

4
00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:17,720
Speaker 1: ride over the last year or so. It's probably fair

5
00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:20,800
Speaker 1: to say the last few years the price of bitcoin

6
00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:24,200
Speaker 1: climbed from low's last year of just over forty thousand

7
00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:26,640
Speaker 1: US dollars to an all time high of one hundred

8
00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,320
Speaker 1: and twenty six thousand US dollars in October or a

9
00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,640
Speaker 1: bit more than that, before falling sharply again to ninety

10
00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:36,000
Speaker 1: thousand and even love us. So what's driving the movement

11
00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,960
Speaker 1: in bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies? And with rumors the next

12
00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:42,519
Speaker 1: FED chair could be Kevin Hassett, a former advisor to

13
00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:45,800
Speaker 1: bitcoin and crypto exchange Coinbase, might we be in for

14
00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:49,440
Speaker 1: another price spike? Remember this is all general information and

15
00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:52,880
Speaker 1: you should seek professional advice before making investment decisions. Jena

16
00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,560
Speaker 1: Laughlin is the managing director of coin Based Australia and

17
00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:59,080
Speaker 1: joins me now from India. John, welcome back to Fear

18
00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:00,440
Speaker 1: and Greed. You're a long way from home.

19
00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:05,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks, Sean. We have three regulated businesses across APAC

20
00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,679
Speaker 2: and my day job is running the Australian business and

21
00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:11,920
Speaker 2: at other times I'm looking after an amazing team on

22
00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:13,800
Speaker 2: the side of the ocean and here for a few

23
00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:15,680
Speaker 2: days and then back in Sydney on Friday.

24
00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:24,200
Speaker 1: Fair enough, let's jump in to cryptocurrencies, Bitcoin, Ether, Solana.

25
00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:27,959
Speaker 1: The last couple of days they've come back again. How

26
00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:32,520
Speaker 1: should we be framing cryptos when we're thinking about them

27
00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:33,080
Speaker 1: at the moment?

28
00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:36,919
Speaker 2: Great question and something my wife and my own family

29
00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:38,920
Speaker 2: have been asking me at that recent times, and I'm

30
00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:40,640
Speaker 2: sure lots of our colleagues in the US of a

31
00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:45,240
Speaker 2: Thanksgiving we're pondering the same topic. This has always been

32
00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:49,520
Speaker 2: a volatile asset class, more volatile than nearly every other commodity,

33
00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,240
Speaker 2: and we've been through this before. In twenty twenty one,

34
00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:56,800
Speaker 2: for instance, in a four week period, Bitcoin fell over

35
00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:01,000
Speaker 2: fifty percent, Ethereum over sixty in Solana nearly seventy percent.

36
00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:07,080
Speaker 2: We're a centralized, trusted exchange and clearly we provide services

37
00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:10,120
Speaker 2: when people are buying and selling, and so we're not

38
00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:13,519
Speaker 2: really in the business of looking at the direction or

39
00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:17,079
Speaker 2: price of certain assets. I do think our job is

40
00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,520
Speaker 2: to kind of, you know, avoid the noise and keep

41
00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:21,520
Speaker 2: our head downs and just keep shipping the best product

42
00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,400
Speaker 2: and making sure that people have you know, reliable service.

43
00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,800
Speaker 2: Some of the observations in the last month and talking

44
00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:33,839
Speaker 2: to our institutional colleagues as well when things came below

45
00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:36,200
Speaker 2: one hundred k and lower. As you mentioned, you know,

46
00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,840
Speaker 2: we've always been seeing more buyers than sellers in our

47
00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:42,560
Speaker 2: order books, which is positive. I think probably in late

48
00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:45,639
Speaker 2: October a number of the highly leveraged players closed their

49
00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:48,880
Speaker 2: positions and exited the market. But during all that time

50
00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,639
Speaker 2: flows and markets remained orderly, and we've seen a whole

51
00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,720
Speaker 2: of other people come back into the market. Probably the

52
00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,960
Speaker 2: best guidance comes from David Duong, who you can find

53
00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:01,280
Speaker 2: on Twitter or on x He's the head of our

54
00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,200
Speaker 2: institutional research and one of the few people who you know,

55
00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:08,200
Speaker 2: really provides institutional research in this space. And so you

56
00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:10,920
Speaker 2: know a number of things that are driving this lowering

57
00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:14,519
Speaker 2: of the price. I think bitcoin's been a major guide

58
00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,200
Speaker 2: for volatility and all sorts of markets. You have a

59
00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:22,040
Speaker 2: huge number of passive funds and index funds and other

60
00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:26,320
Speaker 2: investment class or rather products that now have exposured a bitcoin,

61
00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:30,080
Speaker 2: whether it's through digital asset treasuries or others, and so

62
00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,760
Speaker 2: a lot of those products and businesses have triggers and

63
00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,800
Speaker 2: flaws and various prices, and when more people are in

64
00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:38,600
Speaker 2: the business and there's a selloff, I think there's just

65
00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:42,680
Speaker 2: been more momentum across the broader market. But as you

66
00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:47,680
Speaker 2: talked about, we're predicting some rate cuts coming. David Duong

67
00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:50,000
Speaker 2: feels that a lot of traders are mispricing the rate

68
00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:52,880
Speaker 2: cuts and they meet greater than less and so we're

69
00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:56,320
Speaker 2: hoping for a kind of post December ten rally looking

70
00:03:56,360 --> 00:04:00,520
Speaker 2: at those those FED announcements. As you mentioned. In Australia locally,

71
00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,280
Speaker 2: you know, we've seen a really strong business as well.

72
00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:06,200
Speaker 2: So I think I think the appetite from all sorts

73
00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:08,040
Speaker 2: of demographics is still very, very healthy.

74
00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:13,360
Speaker 1: Without meaning to give coinbase a Dorothy Dixon, but I

75
00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:17,200
Speaker 1: think I'm about to When you are buying or selling

76
00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:23,520
Speaker 1: a cryptocurrency and you want to use in exchange, what

77
00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:26,160
Speaker 1: should you be I mean, I just I'm interested in

78
00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:29,600
Speaker 1: I don't buy and sell cryptocurrencies, but if I wanted to,

79
00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:32,080
Speaker 1: what are the things that you say, look as an

80
00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:35,039
Speaker 1: potential investor, these are the things you've just got to

81
00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:39,560
Speaker 1: make sure you're getting right and your counterparty is getting right.

82
00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:44,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, great question. I mean I joined this business because

83
00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:47,240
Speaker 2: it's a regulated entity effectively, and yeah, so when I

84
00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:49,560
Speaker 2: joined in twenty twenty two, oz track with a regulator.

85
00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,400
Speaker 2: Now we're spending a vast amount of time preparing for

86
00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:56,960
Speaker 2: an AFSL under ASSEK the incoming regulator. And I think

87
00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,120
Speaker 2: in Australia Ostrack might have registered three or four one

88
00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:04,680
Speaker 2: hundred plus brokers or people offering crypto services in one

89
00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:07,400
Speaker 2: form and another. That sounds like probably too many for

90
00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:09,160
Speaker 2: a country the size of Australia, and so I think

91
00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:11,280
Speaker 2: there's going to be a consolidation in the market. And

92
00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:16,640
Speaker 2: we only offer our consumer service retail businesses and regulated markets.

93
00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,720
Speaker 2: And so the positive there, I think for Australian consumers

94
00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,560
Speaker 2: is that the Assistant Treasurer of dal Molino announced guidance

95
00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:28,120
Speaker 2: on regulation last week in Canberra, the last sitting day

96
00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,120
Speaker 2: of Parliament. This is something we've been working on for

97
00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:33,960
Speaker 2: four years. We've been leaning in with the industry on this,

98
00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:38,480
Speaker 2: wanting to get guidelines on what an exchange needs to do.

99
00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:41,920
Speaker 2: There's a stable coin regime that they've given guidance on

100
00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,960
Speaker 2: what how are these tokens class as financial products or

101
00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,719
Speaker 2: utility products, et cetera, et cetera. So looking to regulated

102
00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,880
Speaker 2: players in those markets with the highest level of regulation,

103
00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:56,080
Speaker 2: and in many instances we're kind of acting like a

104
00:05:56,120 --> 00:06:00,360
Speaker 2: regulated player before the regulation is even here. And so

105
00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,240
Speaker 2: be very careful when you're when you're reading those teas

106
00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:05,920
Speaker 2: and sees. I would say, if someone doesn't have a

107
00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:09,720
Speaker 2: FI art offering, i e. They can't connect to local

108
00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,480
Speaker 2: ossie banks. And there are a number of players in

109
00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,279
Speaker 2: the market who are big names who only let you

110
00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:18,039
Speaker 2: offer kind of crypto to crypto so you can send

111
00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:21,720
Speaker 2: your crypto in and out of the exchange if you're

112
00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,039
Speaker 2: not offering a kind of FIAT offering to top up

113
00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:26,960
Speaker 2: and sell out through Aussie dollars. And I don't think

114
00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:30,360
Speaker 2: you can really regard yourself as as a fully regulated,

115
00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:31,760
Speaker 2: buttoned up player in Australia.

116
00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,880
Speaker 1: Great advice, broadly, I appreciate you in exchange, and you're

117
00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:38,760
Speaker 1: not here to tell us whether the bitcoin is going

118
00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:41,920
Speaker 1: to go up or down or whatever. If we end

119
00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:43,800
Speaker 1: up with a well, we will end up with a

120
00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:46,320
Speaker 1: new fed chair. Now obviously that Kevin Hassett has been

121
00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:52,640
Speaker 1: thrown around a former advisor to Bitcoin and coinbase. Whoever

122
00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:56,599
Speaker 1: it is is probably going to be more sympathetic to

123
00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:01,880
Speaker 1: cryptocurrencies than the current chairs or empowered at least publicly.

124
00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:06,159
Speaker 1: Is that how good a thing is that for cryptos?

125
00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:10,360
Speaker 2: Look, I think it's positive. I don't think the appointment

126
00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:15,160
Speaker 2: of someone of the background you described as unique or unusual,

127
00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,120
Speaker 2: you know. Going forward, even in India where I sit

128
00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:23,440
Speaker 2: now on a pretty bumpy highway, there have been murmurings

129
00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:27,240
Speaker 2: from people at the RBI, the Ministry of Finance and others,

130
00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,880
Speaker 2: and the stable coin regime and cryptocurrencies digital assets are

131
00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,760
Speaker 2: coming into the conversation in a way that no one

132
00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,440
Speaker 2: would have imagined twelve months ago. Joe Longo, the chairman

133
00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:42,280
Speaker 2: of ASAK, made quite a public statement two weeks ago

134
00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:46,880
Speaker 2: at the press cub and camera asking for effectively more

135
00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:52,200
Speaker 2: innovation in the financial markets and signaling the value of

136
00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,760
Speaker 2: distributed ledge of technology. And that was also covered at

137
00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:59,360
Speaker 2: the ASSEIC forum in Melbourne, and that topic had never

138
00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,520
Speaker 2: been covered obviously as well. So that in itself is

139
00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:06,080
Speaker 2: a local kind of signal from from someone in a

140
00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:10,240
Speaker 2: position of influence whose major job is to protect and

141
00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:14,160
Speaker 2: control and look after markets. So I think we're seeing

142
00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,080
Speaker 2: a lot of these appointments and you know, I've just

143
00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:20,320
Speaker 2: broad more broadly called them kind of upgrades to the system.

144
00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:27,840
Speaker 2: Financial systems are antiquated, archaic, expensive burdens into consumers. They

145
00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,360
Speaker 2: need an upgrade. I think that the trains left the

146
00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:31,640
Speaker 2: station on that reality.

147
00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:34,760
Speaker 1: John, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. Thanks Sean,

148
00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:38,680
Speaker 1: John I. Laughlin, Managing Director of Coinbase Australia. And a

149
00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,800
Speaker 1: reminder to seek your own advice before making any investment decisions.

150
00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:43,760
Speaker 1: If you've got something you'd like to know, then send

151
00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:46,720
Speaker 1: through your question on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook or at Fearing

152
00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:48,920
Speaker 1: greed dot com. Today you I'm Chanel and this is

153
00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:50,160
Speaker 1: Fear and Greed Q and a