1 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:07,650 Sean Aylmer.: Welcome to Fear and Greed's daily interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. We're now 2 00:00:07,650 --> 00:00:09,299 Sean Aylmer.: very close to the end of the year and so 3 00:00:09,300 --> 00:00:10,980 Sean Aylmer.: I wanted to take a look back at one of 4 00:00:10,980 --> 00:00:14,910 Sean Aylmer.: the more volatile sectors of the market, tech. What's happened 5 00:00:14,910 --> 00:00:17,100 Sean Aylmer.: this year? Who are the big winners and losers and 6 00:00:17,100 --> 00:00:20,250 Sean Aylmer.: where are the opportunities for investors? Remember, this is general 7 00:00:20,250 --> 00:00:23,520 Sean Aylmer.: information only and you should speak to professional advisor before 8 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:27,450 Sean Aylmer.: making any investment decisions. Elise Kennedy is the Vice President 9 00:00:27,450 --> 00:00:30,630 Sean Aylmer.: of Equity Research at Jarden, a semi- regular here at 10 00:00:30,660 --> 00:00:32,040 Sean Aylmer.: Fear and Greed. Hello, Elise. 11 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:33,690 Elise: Thanks for having me again, Sean. 12 00:00:34,140 --> 00:00:36,000 Sean Aylmer.: Not at all. Well now, I mean the last few 13 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:38,790 Sean Aylmer.: days hasn't been great for the tech sector. It's kind 14 00:00:38,790 --> 00:00:42,210 Sean Aylmer.: of at a pretty rocky 2022 overall, would you say? 15 00:00:42,630 --> 00:00:46,050 Elise: Absolutely. As you say, it was down the other day, 16 00:00:46,050 --> 00:00:48,269 Elise: but it'll probably be up again the next day. It's 17 00:00:48,270 --> 00:00:49,559 Elise: really hard to tell. 18 00:00:50,310 --> 00:00:53,580 Sean Aylmer.: What's been behind it? Why the volatility in tech particularly 19 00:00:53,610 --> 00:00:57,210 Sean Aylmer.: 'cause it's probably been more volatile than many other sectors? 20 00:00:57,450 --> 00:00:59,940 Elise: Oh, absolutely. Even if you look at the index as 21 00:00:59,940 --> 00:01:02,310 Elise: a whole, you've got the ASX 200 using that as a 22 00:01:02,310 --> 00:01:05,759 Elise: benchmark, that's down 2%. So overall markets have been challenged 23 00:01:06,090 --> 00:01:08,310 Elise: but then you look at the tech sector within that 24 00:01:08,310 --> 00:01:12,119 Elise: and it's down 31%. Now what's behind that? And why 25 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:14,130 Elise: is that happening? And why is it up and down? 26 00:01:14,459 --> 00:01:17,220 Elise: It's a combination of factors but primarily it's got to 27 00:01:17,220 --> 00:01:19,949 Elise: do with those rising interest rates. So the U. S. 28 00:01:19,950 --> 00:01:23,370 Elise: rates for example, that's gone from start of January was 29 00:01:23,370 --> 00:01:29,280 Elise: around 1. 8%. It's around 3. 68 now RBA rate 30 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:33,000 Elise: gone from a similar 0. 1%. Now we're at 3. 1. 31 00:01:33,300 --> 00:01:35,730 Elise: And how this plays an effect is that it weighs on 32 00:01:35,730 --> 00:01:39,690 Elise: the valuation, particularly for the tech stocks because that's where 33 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,990 Elise: a lot of their valuation is on the rate and 34 00:01:42,990 --> 00:01:45,540 Elise: the price. And then also they're often the ones that 35 00:01:45,540 --> 00:01:47,880 Elise: have to borrow in the markets, given that most of 36 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:50,730 Elise: them aren't free cash flow positive. So that again is 37 00:01:50,790 --> 00:01:52,950 Elise: one of the reasons that they're hit a lot harder 38 00:01:52,950 --> 00:01:54,270 Elise: than the general index. 39 00:01:54,690 --> 00:01:57,150 Sean Aylmer.: Okay, so I mean something that's worth pointing out is 40 00:01:57,150 --> 00:01:59,730 Sean Aylmer.: that the bond rate or the cash rate which flows 41 00:01:59,730 --> 00:02:02,700 Sean Aylmer.: through to bond rates are often used to price or 42 00:02:02,700 --> 00:02:06,360 Sean Aylmer.: value other assets. And what we're saying is when rates 43 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,570 Sean Aylmer.: are rising, future earnings for companies like tech stocks don't 44 00:02:09,570 --> 00:02:11,370 Sean Aylmer.: look quite as good. That's kind of, I'm just trying 45 00:02:11,370 --> 00:02:13,290 Sean Aylmer.: to put that into very plain English. Is that fair, 46 00:02:13,380 --> 00:02:13,980 Sean Aylmer.: what I've just said? 47 00:02:14,340 --> 00:02:15,840 Elise: You nailed it. Well done, Sean. 48 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:20,220 Sean Aylmer.: Right. Okay. So how closely does a local tech sector 49 00:02:20,340 --> 00:02:21,750 Sean Aylmer.: follow the U. S? 50 00:02:22,230 --> 00:02:25,290 Elise: Yes, so I mentioned earlier about the Info- Tech being 51 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:29,190 Elise: down about 30 odd percent. You've got the Nasdaq similarly 52 00:02:29,190 --> 00:02:32,910 Elise: down about 30%. So it's quite a close comparison and 53 00:02:32,910 --> 00:02:35,160 Elise: I think that's also got to do with the factor 54 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,790 Elise: of we're both seeing in the markets, rising in inflation 55 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:42,750 Elise: wage at all time or employment that flows. It's that 56 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:46,709 Elise: weighing on the wages. So I think that's where those two types 57 00:02:46,710 --> 00:02:48,480 Elise: of sectors are actually quite aligned. 58 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,720 Sean Aylmer.: What about, you also mentioned earlier about the need for 59 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:53,910 Sean Aylmer.: debt in a lot of these tech stocks because a 60 00:02:53,910 --> 00:02:57,660 Sean Aylmer.: lot of them aren't actually making money yet? In this 61 00:02:57,660 --> 00:03:00,419 Sean Aylmer.: environment are you looking to invest in those that are 62 00:03:00,419 --> 00:03:02,100 Sean Aylmer.: making money vis- a- vis those who aren't? 63 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:05,639 Elise: Absolutely. I think that's where you've seen in the tech 64 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:08,369 Elise: stocks that have performed better than some of the others. 65 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:11,700 Elise: The reason that has tended to occur has to do 66 00:03:11,700 --> 00:03:15,180 Elise: with the free cash flow generation. So those that perhaps 67 00:03:15,180 --> 00:03:18,389 Elise: like an LTM and a WiseTech are two that I cover in 68 00:03:18,389 --> 00:03:23,250 Elise: my sector coverage that have performed better because they generate 69 00:03:23,250 --> 00:03:26,700 Elise: cash versus say Zero hasn't done as well because they've 70 00:03:26,700 --> 00:03:29,639 Elise: been still investing a lot more and haven't been able 71 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,130 Elise: to generate as much of the free cash flow. It actually went 72 00:03:32,130 --> 00:03:36,300 Elise: backwards in their last result back in August. So absolutely, 73 00:03:36,300 --> 00:03:37,950 Elise: I think that's one of the challenges that a lot 74 00:03:37,950 --> 00:03:40,830 Elise: of these smaller businesses and probably even more profound effect 75 00:03:41,070 --> 00:03:43,320 Elise: in the earlier stage VC space. 76 00:03:43,830 --> 00:03:45,930 Sean Aylmer.: Okay. So let's talk about some of these stocks. WiseTech 77 00:03:45,930 --> 00:03:48,330 Sean Aylmer.: Global, I kind of love, I think the management of 78 00:03:48,330 --> 00:03:50,040 Sean Aylmer.: that company is very good and it's got very sort 79 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:53,850 Sean Aylmer.: of stable management, I suppose. But this year it really 80 00:03:53,850 --> 00:03:56,820 Sean Aylmer.: has bounced around a lot for a pretty good company. 81 00:03:57,510 --> 00:04:00,480 Elise: Yeah, look, I think that's again the market getting caught 82 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:02,700 Elise: up on a few things and also thinking our trade 83 00:04:02,700 --> 00:04:06,030 Elise: volumes are changing. But as I've highlighted to a few 84 00:04:06,090 --> 00:04:08,400 Elise: people who have wanted to short this name, of the 85 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:13,560 Elise: 31% growth rate that they've had since 2016 on the 86 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:19,140 Elise: revenue line, their bulk of that, about 16% of that 31, has come 87 00:04:19,140 --> 00:04:24,270 Elise: from large contract wins and getting more global rollouts happening 88 00:04:24,270 --> 00:04:27,450 Elise: versus 3% from volume. So that's one thing that I 89 00:04:27,450 --> 00:04:30,419 Elise: think some people get caught up on there. But the 90 00:04:30,420 --> 00:04:32,400 Elise: other thing as I mentioned is they're spinning off so 91 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:34,980 Elise: much free cash flow and we see that each result 92 00:04:34,980 --> 00:04:37,950 Elise: that they present. And I think when we see that they've got 93 00:04:38,010 --> 00:04:41,520 Elise: 460 million sitting on the balance sheet as they last 94 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:46,620 Elise: reported, they generate between 150 to 200 million plus each 95 00:04:46,620 --> 00:04:49,140 Elise: year to add to that balance sheet and they've got 96 00:04:49,140 --> 00:04:51,900 Elise: a history of making acquisitions. So I think that's where 97 00:04:52,260 --> 00:04:55,950 Elise: that is very different to say another name that is 98 00:04:55,950 --> 00:04:59,099 Elise: using that much cash rather than generating that much cash. 99 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:01,950 Sean Aylmer.: Elise, what does WiseTech Global actually do? 100 00:05:02,430 --> 00:05:06,510 Elise: So Wisetech Global is a logistics software stock. So what 101 00:05:06,540 --> 00:05:10,739 Elise: they do is if you've got freight forwarder like A DHL, 102 00:05:10,740 --> 00:05:13,589 Elise: you might have seen them, they will help move and 103 00:05:13,589 --> 00:05:16,589 Elise: give visibility of where and when that parcel is going 104 00:05:16,589 --> 00:05:20,520 Elise: through from the warehouse to the port, on the ship 105 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:21,120 Elise: to your home. 106 00:05:21,779 --> 00:05:24,810 Sean Aylmer.: Okay, fantastic. So all that shopping I did on Black Friday 107 00:05:25,140 --> 00:05:27,000 Sean Aylmer.: and I keep getting these emails saying this is where 108 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:30,510 Sean Aylmer.: it's up to, potentially WiseTech Global was involved in that. 109 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:31,770 Elise: Very well could be. 110 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,040 Sean Aylmer.: Okay. LTM, you mentioned that. So what does LTM do 111 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:36,210 Sean Aylmer.: and what do you think of that one? 112 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:41,940 Elise: LTM, it does a printed circuit board software which in 113 00:05:41,940 --> 00:05:44,970 Elise: itself can be complex but effectively if you think about 114 00:05:44,970 --> 00:05:49,080 Elise: if you build any electronic gadget, there's a small chip 115 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,810 Elise: that exists within that to get all of the linking 116 00:05:51,810 --> 00:05:55,080 Elise: up of the dials and they do the software, not the 117 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:58,980 Elise: hardware for that. And they've done exceptionally well because they've 118 00:05:58,980 --> 00:06:03,360 Elise: always been generating free cash flow that are quite transparent 119 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,150 Elise: in their way that they account for that cash in 120 00:06:06,150 --> 00:06:08,820 Elise: terms of they don't capitalize, which means put some of 121 00:06:08,820 --> 00:06:10,710 Elise: their spend onto a balance sheet so it makes their 122 00:06:10,710 --> 00:06:13,500 Elise: financials look better, they don't do that. And I think 123 00:06:13,500 --> 00:06:16,529 Elise: they've just rebase the market as well in saying we've 124 00:06:16,529 --> 00:06:21,000 Elise: got these 2025 targets. We're going to hit them. I'm 125 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,099 Elise: a bit more skeptical on their ability to be able 126 00:06:23,100 --> 00:06:26,190 Elise: to do that but the market believes them and then as a result the 127 00:06:26,190 --> 00:06:27,630 Elise: share price is held up very well. 128 00:06:27,900 --> 00:06:29,969 Sean Aylmer.: Stay with me, Elise. We'll be back in a minute. 129 00:06:35,820 --> 00:06:38,940 Sean Aylmer.: My guest today is Elise Kennedy, Vice President of Equity 130 00:06:38,940 --> 00:06:42,810 Sean Aylmer.: Research at Jarden. Okay, then Zero is another one you 131 00:06:42,810 --> 00:06:45,510 Sean Aylmer.: mentioned and anyone in small business, not anyone but many 132 00:06:45,510 --> 00:06:47,969 Sean Aylmer.: people in small business would use Zero or certainly know 133 00:06:47,970 --> 00:06:51,510 Sean Aylmer.: about Zero. It's accounting software. I was surprised you said 134 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:52,710 Sean Aylmer.: it doesn't make money. 135 00:06:53,370 --> 00:06:58,050 Elise: Yeah, look, they're interesting 'cause they're doing all, which is over two billion on the 136 00:06:58,050 --> 00:07:01,200 Elise: top line. That means the revenue line but they're only 137 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:04,680 Elise: generated for cash flow of about two mil and that's 138 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:07,710 Elise: down from the 10 that they have delivered previously. So 139 00:07:07,710 --> 00:07:10,650 Elise: they're in a root, still an investment phase which we 140 00:07:10,650 --> 00:07:13,560 Elise: completely respect and understand 'cause there's such a large addressable 141 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:16,590 Elise: opportunity for them to be able to go after that. 142 00:07:16,590 --> 00:07:19,920 Elise: But I think the challenge in this market is how 143 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,320 Elise: long are you going to have to keep on spending 144 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:25,320 Elise: that and are you in this type of market, if 145 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:28,230 Elise: you need to spend more, are you going to have 146 00:07:28,230 --> 00:07:30,750 Elise: to borrow? I don't think that's as much of a 147 00:07:30,750 --> 00:07:33,720 Elise: concern, the borrowing side or the balance sheet component. But 148 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,480 Elise: I think it's just wanting to see delivery of cash 149 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,630 Elise: and that's where the jocks that I mentioned before are 150 00:07:39,630 --> 00:07:43,050 Elise: investors when the cost of that dollar is going up, 151 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:45,090 Elise: want a better return for that and a better sense of 152 00:07:45,090 --> 00:07:47,160 Elise: certainty as to when you're going to start to get 153 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:47,910 Elise: that cash out. 154 00:07:48,660 --> 00:07:51,750 Sean Aylmer.: Okay. What about the online property groups? REA and Domain? 155 00:07:51,780 --> 00:07:54,150 Sean Aylmer.: The big two REA certainly is a lot bigger than 156 00:07:54,150 --> 00:07:54,750 Sean Aylmer.: Domain though. 157 00:07:55,140 --> 00:07:58,050 Elise: Yeah, it's a very cyclical year. If you've watched where 158 00:07:58,050 --> 00:08:00,510 Elise: house prices have gone, which is the key thing that 159 00:08:00,660 --> 00:08:05,520 Elise: these stocks are correlated to amongst other things. But REA 160 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:08,220 Elise: has held up its value relatively well. I think as 161 00:08:08,220 --> 00:08:10,530 Elise: a number one player, if you do list your house, 162 00:08:10,530 --> 00:08:12,840 Elise: even though there's a lot fewer listings than we have 163 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:16,620 Elise: seen historically, they're more normalized versus what we saw last 164 00:08:16,620 --> 00:08:20,460 Elise: year, then you will have to perfectly use that to 165 00:08:20,460 --> 00:08:23,100 Elise: entice other sellers. So I think that's where will you 166 00:08:23,100 --> 00:08:26,100 Elise: use two of them? Sometimes you advertise on both. That's 167 00:08:26,100 --> 00:08:29,010 Elise: where I think Domain has struggled and as a number 168 00:08:29,010 --> 00:08:32,579 Elise: two player, you often have to spend more than the 169 00:08:32,580 --> 00:08:35,189 Elise: number one player to get the attention share, to get 170 00:08:35,190 --> 00:08:37,559 Elise: the market share to drive some of what we call 171 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:40,619 Elise: depth penetration. So I think for us we kind of 172 00:08:40,620 --> 00:08:43,410 Elise: look at those two as leverage the housing cycle, which 173 00:08:43,410 --> 00:08:46,410 Elise: is challenging as a whole. But you would preference REA 174 00:08:46,410 --> 00:08:49,469 Elise: in that because of Domain being a number two player? 175 00:08:49,470 --> 00:08:50,190 Elise: It's just harder. 176 00:08:50,730 --> 00:08:54,270 Sean Aylmer.: Yeah. Okay. The one I always find interesting is SEEK, and I would've 177 00:08:54,270 --> 00:08:57,120 Sean Aylmer.: thought it should had a really good year given that 178 00:08:57,150 --> 00:09:00,150 Sean Aylmer.: we've had incredible jobs boom and people are looking for 179 00:09:00,150 --> 00:09:02,130 Sean Aylmer.: staff. But that's not really the case. I mean I 180 00:09:02,130 --> 00:09:04,199 Sean Aylmer.: think it's down 35% in the last 12 months or 181 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:05,130 Sean Aylmer.: so, or thereabouts. 182 00:09:06,030 --> 00:09:08,309 Elise: Absolutely, Sean. It should have had a good year. It's 183 00:09:08,309 --> 00:09:10,440 Elise: like every time that they beat, which they did at 184 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,740 Elise: the result or their guidance they put out, everyone thinks 185 00:09:13,740 --> 00:09:16,439 Elise: that's the last upgrade. Jobs are going down now everyone's 186 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,800 Elise: going to be unemployed. Which I don't know, I think it's 187 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:23,340 Elise: held up relatively well still and I think probably the 188 00:09:23,340 --> 00:09:25,829 Elise: next result which we have in February could have the 189 00:09:25,830 --> 00:09:28,770 Elise: surprise to the upside where in the way that we 190 00:09:28,770 --> 00:09:31,260 Elise: are looking at it, I think that the jobs market 191 00:09:31,260 --> 00:09:33,449 Elise: is still good. They're not getting as many applications which 192 00:09:33,450 --> 00:09:36,660 Elise: makes some of their ability to price on what they 193 00:09:36,660 --> 00:09:40,710 Elise: call dynamic pricing harder. But I find that helps to 194 00:09:40,710 --> 00:09:42,689 Elise: remove some of the cyclicality in some of the other 195 00:09:42,690 --> 00:09:46,470 Elise: businesses like Asia Offshore are also going very well that 196 00:09:46,620 --> 00:09:49,200 Elise: it does seem exactly as you point out, that it is 197 00:09:49,590 --> 00:09:52,470 Elise: not really aligned to what we are seeing in that 198 00:09:52,470 --> 00:09:53,340 Elise: jobs market. 199 00:09:54,090 --> 00:09:56,850 Sean Aylmer.: And another company that you've just started watching I believe 200 00:09:57,059 --> 00:10:00,150 Sean Aylmer.: is SiteMinder. Tell us about that, what it does? 201 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:04,140 Elise: Absolutely. Yeah, so we recently started covering SiteMinder, which is 202 00:10:04,140 --> 00:10:09,179 Elise: an accommodation software stock. It's global, it's tapping into a 203 00:10:09,179 --> 00:10:12,030 Elise: lot majority of smaller hotels. So it's not your big 204 00:10:12,030 --> 00:10:14,250 Elise: hotel chain. So for example, if you go to your 205 00:10:14,429 --> 00:10:18,030 Elise: local boutique, you're own beach pad, actually having them use 206 00:10:18,210 --> 00:10:19,800 Elise: SiteMinder or one of the other products that they have 207 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,730 Elise: called Little Hotelier. Now that again was hit hard by 208 00:10:23,730 --> 00:10:26,760 Elise: the COVID, it only listed last year on the stock 209 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:31,020 Elise: exchange. But we see the resumption in travel as a 210 00:10:31,020 --> 00:10:33,900 Elise: positive for this name. We actually think sometimes if you 211 00:10:33,900 --> 00:10:39,300 Elise: do have pressure on pricing from a softer consumer, given 212 00:10:39,300 --> 00:10:42,450 Elise: all their ear enter rate rises, which we mentioned earlier, 213 00:10:42,750 --> 00:10:46,050 Elise: then this could actually drive the smaller hotels to need 214 00:10:46,050 --> 00:10:49,800 Elise: to find cost efficient ways to manage their bookings, to 215 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:53,550 Elise: remain competitive and for $ 30 a month effectively this product 216 00:10:53,550 --> 00:10:56,880 Elise: can be, this is a really good tool that's global 217 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:01,020 Elise: that may be able to benefit from that type of scenario. 218 00:11:01,860 --> 00:11:03,300 Sean Aylmer.: How do you remember all this stuff, Elise? 219 00:11:06,150 --> 00:11:08,340 Elise: I read and read. 220 00:11:10,140 --> 00:11:12,689 Sean Aylmer.: And recall though. Read and recall. That's pretty good. Tell 221 00:11:12,690 --> 00:11:15,150 Sean Aylmer.: me, what about 2023 and my final question for you, 222 00:11:15,150 --> 00:11:19,410 Sean Aylmer.: what as an investor should we be expecting in 2023 223 00:11:19,830 --> 00:11:23,250 Sean Aylmer.: given that interest rates probably will top out probably in the 224 00:11:23,250 --> 00:11:24,150 Sean Aylmer.: first half of the year? 225 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:27,660 Elise: I hope you're right on that because then I think 226 00:11:27,690 --> 00:11:30,750 Elise: we might get a bit more traction and stabilization across 227 00:11:30,990 --> 00:11:34,199 Elise: the likes of tech because we know what pricing to 228 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:35,790 Elise: put in there in terms of a rate. We also 229 00:11:35,790 --> 00:11:40,230 Elise: know with housing that once we know effectively what borrowing 230 00:11:40,230 --> 00:11:43,079 Elise: you can get from the buyer side or that there's going 231 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:45,870 Elise: to be buyers there that can close in on financials. 232 00:11:46,410 --> 00:11:48,750 Elise: 'Cause if the rates just keep on going up, it becomes harder each 233 00:11:48,750 --> 00:11:51,089 Elise: time you go to get refinancing on what you can 234 00:11:51,090 --> 00:11:53,700 Elise: pay for a house. So my thoughts are similar to 235 00:11:53,700 --> 00:11:56,760 Elise: yourself in that we need to firstly see inflation rates 236 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:00,059 Elise: start to normalize. There's still about seven, just over seven 237 00:12:00,330 --> 00:12:03,000 Elise: half percent in the U. S. the last was 7. 238 00:12:03,179 --> 00:12:06,210 Elise: 3 here in Australia on a quarterly basis. I think 239 00:12:06,210 --> 00:12:09,600 Elise: we need to see that stabilized first and then from 240 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:13,470 Elise: there, hopefully a bit of easing in the employment market 241 00:12:13,470 --> 00:12:16,050 Elise: as we start to get some of the migration comeback. 242 00:12:16,140 --> 00:12:18,359 Elise: And then from there, I think exactly as you say, 243 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,660 Elise: hopefully we get stabilization in the second half of the 244 00:12:21,660 --> 00:12:24,150 Elise: year. We start to see a return from value to 245 00:12:24,150 --> 00:12:26,309 Elise: rewards growth towards tech. 246 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,699 Sean Aylmer.: Elise, thank you very much for talking to Fear and Greed. 247 00:12:29,910 --> 00:12:31,020 Elise: Thanks for having me, Sean. 248 00:12:31,530 --> 00:12:34,800 Sean Aylmer.: That was Elise Kennedy, Vice President of Equity Research at Jarden. 249 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,740 Sean Aylmer.: This is the Fear and Greed daily interview. Remember, you 250 00:12:37,740 --> 00:12:41,550 Sean Aylmer.: should get professional advice before making any investment decisions. Join 251 00:12:41,550 --> 00:12:43,350 Sean Aylmer.: us every morning for the full episode of Fear and 252 00:12:43,350 --> 00:12:46,950 Sean Aylmer.: Greed, Australia's most popular business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy 253 00:12:46,950 --> 00:12:47,370 Sean Aylmer.: your day.