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Speaker 1: Approache Production. Welcome to Secrets of the Underworld. I am

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Speaker 1: Neil the Muscle comments and in this episode I speak

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Speaker 1: with former Underweld figure and standover man Jay mal Kuhn.

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Speaker 2: We preferred not to kill you. We will do it,

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Speaker 2: but we won't be happy about it. But you know

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Speaker 2: the consequences being in jail to you, I said, committee,

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Speaker 2: you must pay. It isn't a fucking around him. I'm

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Speaker 2: not leaving without my money. But to get a taser

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Speaker 2: and knife, some gaffer tape, and I had to turn

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Speaker 2: nothing into a weapon. So if anyone was going to

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Speaker 2: have a problem, that would have been there, not me.

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Speaker 2: There's nothing more rewarded than not in some.

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Speaker 3: Jay, thank you for coming in.

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Speaker 1: Thanks having me when I when I seen your book

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Speaker 1: come out, I wanted to approach you, and I thought

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Speaker 1: I'd let you do your thing first because you are

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Speaker 1: promoting it and I'm glad. I was reached out by

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Speaker 1: one of your friends and he wanted to get me

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Speaker 1: to get you on my show, and I was.

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Speaker 3: I was keen as to get you on. But we'll

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Speaker 3: start off.

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Speaker 1: With you as a person before all all the heavy

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Speaker 1: ship that happened, but you growing up and tell me

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Speaker 1: about you, and then we'll get into the nitty gritty

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Speaker 1: of everything.

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Speaker 2: Oh it's not that exciting, believe me, it will be.

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Speaker 2: But you know, we grew up in the housing commision area.

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Speaker 2: All the parents were all the kids were left to

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Speaker 2: run a mark. Most families had four to six to

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Speaker 2: ten kids, predominantly boys, and I know we all played up.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't any I wasn't unique. I was just one

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Speaker 2: of many. I used to have to run home when

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Speaker 2: I was younger to avoid getting bashed. So I discovered

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Speaker 2: that you can bash back. Wow. Yeah, And it happened

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Speaker 2: one day. There were two of us running and avoid

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Speaker 2: a little gang, and he got left behind. Go on.

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Speaker 2: I think that must have been about nine. So I

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Speaker 2: ran back and picked up it. They used to have

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Speaker 2: house These have trees in front of every home, and

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Speaker 2: these pickets told them together and there was one lane

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Speaker 2: on the ground. So I just slipped that up and

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Speaker 2: fucking attacked him with it. I got an amazing response.

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Speaker 2: They shot himselves and around. I discovered that you can

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Speaker 2: fight back.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was great, very liberating.

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Speaker 1: What did you grow?

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Speaker 2: Reservoir? Patridge Prison was full of kids from Reservoir and

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Speaker 2: Coburg literally full of them. Valley Street, Winter Crescent was

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Speaker 2: all always banging on. You know. My dad used to

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Speaker 2: stand at the front of the at that gate, waiting

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Speaker 2: for us to come home, to see if we had

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Speaker 2: fights and torn clothes and bloodied and if we were

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Speaker 2: we were in trouble. If we came home normal, we

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Speaker 2: were okay. He didn't like, he didn't condone us playing up.

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Speaker 2: But no, it was just it was just the environment

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Speaker 2: schooling for you. I struggled. I started when I went

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Speaker 2: to school when I started schooling and speak English, so

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Speaker 2: I struggled, always struggled. But I mean I enjoyed it.

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Speaker 2: I went to every class even though I couldn't really

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Speaker 2: read well, I'd still stood up in the class and

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Speaker 2: did my best. I was never embarrassed to humiliated. I

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Speaker 2: just did my best. I guess I didn't know any better.

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Speaker 2: What was it?

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Speaker 1: What was your goal when your left school?

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Speaker 3: What did you want?

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Speaker 2: To be a policeman?

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Speaker 1: Really?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Fuck me?

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Speaker 3: Yeah that doesn't saying around.

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Speaker 2: Yeah No, I actually applied to be a cup when

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Speaker 2: I was seventeen and I couldn't fill up the phone properly,

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Speaker 2: so I was rejected.

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Speaker 1: So that's that's all stopped you. Otherwise would have been

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Speaker 1: a cop.

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Speaker 2: Probably would have been a crup cup. That would have

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Speaker 2: been a cop. I would have fucked that ship up right,

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Speaker 2: give me your money, don't tell me.

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Speaker 1: One fucked up. I didn't know that.

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Speaker 2: No, I don't know. It's a vass. But that was

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Speaker 2: actually my first application. It was like the when when

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Speaker 2: you were at that age, there wasn't many options. Was

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Speaker 2: if you're academically not right, you can't you know, you're

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Speaker 2: not going to be an accountant or a lawyer, or

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Speaker 2: you're they're going to drive a fucking bus or apply

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Speaker 2: for something that you may you maybe be good at.

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Speaker 2: So I thought just trying the police force that I

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Speaker 2: think I was just seventeen at the time. That paperwork,

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Speaker 2: and I was promptly rejected, and.

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Speaker 3: You didn't want to apply again. You just forgot it.

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Speaker 2: That Nah, that was just tick that box and move on.

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Speaker 1: Is that was that what you thought after that?

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Speaker 2: Not at all? Look, I never I was. I was

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Speaker 2: really a good kid mate like became My parents were

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Speaker 2: really good without religious people and right from wrong and

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Speaker 2: don't steal and don't take what's not your usual. That

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Speaker 2: was that's how we all were. Yeah, I fell into

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Speaker 2: crime because I just did you know, it happened to

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Speaker 2: be at the right place or the wrong place at

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Speaker 2: the right time, at the wrong time, and I made

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Speaker 2: a decision. I went that way.

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Speaker 1: How how did your parents feel when they when they

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Speaker 1: know that you were involved in the underworld and that

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Speaker 1: kind of stuff, did they did they change towards you?

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Speaker 2: No? No, they didn't know you kept a secret phone.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't It wasn't a regular activity. It was very rare.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't like, but.

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Speaker 3: Where do we get around that?

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Speaker 1: What you know, what your son's doing? This is who

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Speaker 1: your son's hanging around with?

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Speaker 2: That there wasn't. I wasn't hanging out with anyone. I

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Speaker 2: was hooked in with the triads. Rides were overseas. My

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Speaker 2: contacts were in Sydney. I lived in Melbourne. I drove

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Speaker 2: lumpy cars. Because I developed a property at the edge

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Speaker 2: of twenty, I entus strayed at twenty one. I I

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Speaker 2: validated what I was my spending. I justified it so sweet.

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Speaker 2: I was a little fucking on entrepreneur. My parents are

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Speaker 2: very proud.

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Speaker 1: So okay, so you've got them back from police. So

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Speaker 1: what what? What was your next line to go down? Where

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Speaker 1: did you go from me?

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Speaker 2: At that time I was I had started doing training

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Speaker 2: take one day, at the edge of five. We were

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Speaker 2: like they were the Bruce Ley days. Me and the

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Speaker 2: rest of the world were taken about Bruce Ley. We

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Speaker 2: all wanted to be Bruce Lay. I wanted to be

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Speaker 2: band Wow. Yeah, of course younger than me. That So

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Speaker 2: when I was sixth day and I met the Lacey brothers.

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Speaker 2: There were twin brothers from Hong Kong and they had

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Speaker 2: an academy in Perth. They wanted to open up in

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Speaker 2: Melbourne and somebody introduced me to them. We started training

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Speaker 2: in the park every day. So at that age I

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Speaker 2: was right into martial arts and I was training to

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Speaker 2: fight in the sixth International Martial Arts Invitation Tournament in Macau,

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Speaker 2: so that that totally consumed me. So we did that.

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Speaker 2: That's when I when I turned Just before I turned

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Speaker 2: out in there was a bit of a hiccup with

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Speaker 2: a gun and some lebows and some bouncers that I diffused.

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Speaker 2: Just that I just happened to be there and the

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Speaker 2: security offered me a job and so I started doing

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Speaker 2: store work, which was great. Yourself, there's nothing more rewarding

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Speaker 2: than looking some catch out.

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Speaker 1: I usually go to work to hope and I was

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Speaker 1: going to knock somebody up. That's what you used to

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Speaker 1: go to work for it. It was like he'll give

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Speaker 1: you a high.

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Speaker 3: You know what I mean, You're to be trouble.

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Speaker 2: I loved it. I was like, fuck girls and fucking

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Speaker 2: comes out. I'd go home and play in bed under

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Speaker 2: we live it in my head. I did by public.

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Speaker 2: I worked at very rough places, so it was on

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Speaker 2: all night. It would be fucking You'd have at least

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Speaker 2: three or four dust ups, probably be up to eight.

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Speaker 2: And it was really good. We loved it. And I

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Speaker 2: worked with really good blokes, really good solid blakes that

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Speaker 2: could bang it on.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, some working the How long did you went the doors.

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Speaker 2: For until I discovered money? Eighten to twenty?

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Speaker 3: So what came first?

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Speaker 2: You like?

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Speaker 1: Did did the motorcycle game come first?

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Speaker 3: After this? What came from? Where? Where did that come from?

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Speaker 2: Now? The minorcycle came way after this? Like we had

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Speaker 2: bouncing coat dealing person for ten years, got out, then

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Speaker 2: we had the underworld killings for about ten years. Then

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Speaker 2: I got hooked into some mining groups. Seen that has

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Speaker 2: some big problems. So it was resolving, and they they

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Speaker 2: kept me on full time and then we did the

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Speaker 2: biking stuff. I was up with them for five years

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Speaker 2: and then I jumped up with the commos. Yeah, well

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Speaker 2: I still looked after the mining goes.

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Speaker 3: You went to the corporate world of money for what.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So this is what happened. A friend of mine

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Speaker 2: is in the book. He had a little problem with

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Speaker 2: some coffin cheatters in perth Yep. So he called me

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Speaker 2: up and said, ah, what do we do. I said,

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Speaker 2: let's get on a plane and go and see him. Brother.

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Speaker 2: So he rang out there mutual in Perth ye and

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Speaker 2: said we're coming in the morning, going to sort this

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Speaker 2: shit out because I wanted their way to break his

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Speaker 2: legs apparently and anyway, and then you know, I got

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Speaker 2: involved and it was diffused quite quickly, and he was

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Speaker 2: very he's very successful dude, and he's very willing too.

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Speaker 2: By the way, he didn't he didn't actually need me.

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Speaker 2: He could stand on his own two feed, but was

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Speaker 2: a lot easier with me. And he's back in this corner.

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Speaker 2: So from there he wanted me to go on tour

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Speaker 2: with him, because although the problem was solved, that wasn't

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Speaker 2: completely solved. He wanted to be close by, so we

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Speaker 2: went to London where we met his partner. His partner

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Speaker 2: had a similar problem with the coffin cheaters, but this

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Speaker 2: was a two hunch, a mean dollar problem, right, and

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Speaker 2: my mother may goes, well, let ja sort it out.

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Speaker 2: And this is my first exposure to this sort of money.

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Speaker 2: And these kinds were getting fucking drunk one hunter old

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Speaker 2: Scotch and to be honest that there wasn't paying that

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Speaker 2: much fucking attention. But you know, my mate said, let

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Speaker 2: him sort of that. He goes, oh, can he do it?

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Speaker 2: He goes, yeah, of course you can. And then my

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Speaker 2: mate asked me, got draw up a little one pager

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Speaker 2: saying for services as requested a million dollars cash or

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Speaker 2: US dollars and sixteen million shares and sixty men uppies

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Speaker 2: to resolve this issue. The shares were training at seventy

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Speaker 2: two cents at the time. It was about a seven

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Speaker 2: eight million dollars deal. Said quickly, taps up in the

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Speaker 2: business center, hands it to him. He fucking through it

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Speaker 2: out the window. He was drunk at The window was

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Speaker 2: a balcony, so my mate jumped out the window and

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Speaker 2: grabbed it and gave it back to him, so he

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Speaker 2: signed it and off he went. He transferred the me

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Speaker 2: into his account, which I saw part of. By the way,

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Speaker 2: he was getting half everything. And then I flew the

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Speaker 2: Perth and caught up with the cheats who are mate's

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Speaker 2: of mine, and another fellow over there, junk is On,

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Speaker 2: and we worked it out. It was all resolved. I

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Speaker 2: got paid.

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Speaker 1: So so now have you already got that reputation already

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Speaker 1: for who you you are?

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Speaker 2: Well? The thing is, I was incarcerated in Pantridge for

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Speaker 2: ten years. It's a make some security for yeah. Out

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Speaker 2: of that ten years, I probably did nine months out

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Speaker 2: in other jails. They couldn't they couldn't have come at

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Speaker 2: me anywhere else. So I did have and know I

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Speaker 2: was known. I was known. You know, we did things.

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Speaker 2: You'd have to do things. You know, you got to

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Speaker 2: tool up and you gotta you can't sit on the fence.

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Speaker 2: If someone sucking around, you just have to put a

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Speaker 2: hold on them, you know how it is. Right, So

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Speaker 2: by the time I got out of prison, I was

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Speaker 2: very well known. So it was it wasn't hard for

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Speaker 2: me to get things, get people to agree or comply.

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Speaker 3: It's still not yeah, you still got that power.

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Speaker 2: We do all right now.

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Speaker 1: When you were in Penbridge jail, there is there is

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Speaker 1: a kind of quote there that you did some deal

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Speaker 1: with chop a read.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it wasn't a deal. It was going to knock

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Speaker 2: some can some deal. It's just doing work, bro So

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Speaker 2: who you going to know? We're at war for about

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Speaker 2: seven years with a different team. And yeah, they come

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Speaker 2: and they go. When you can get your hands on him,

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Speaker 2: to get your hands on them. Like one particular time,

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Speaker 2: I was in another prison, another maximum security prison, and

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Speaker 2: one of them came back through the system, and I

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Speaker 2: had a friend of mine in that division. So I

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Speaker 2: rang my lawyer, the PA, I said, ring the prison

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Speaker 2: and ask him to give Lenny a message to call

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Speaker 2: this lawyer at one o'clock and give your number, which

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Speaker 2: she did, and then I drank at one o'clock and

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Speaker 2: she joined us, and I said, Lenny, this counts in

252
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Speaker 2: your division, broke and sort him out. So lennenly promptly

253
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Speaker 2: went and got a big fucking bit of steal and

254
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Speaker 2: ran in the cell and iron barred him. You get

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Speaker 2: shit done. This other count who was in the system,

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Speaker 2: but he was in Chopper's water h division can't get

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Speaker 2: to him, impossible to get to him. They get one

258
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Speaker 2: hour exercise a day. But I had a plan. I

259
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Speaker 2: wanted to muck this camp chopper gives him their milk

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Speaker 2: in their breakfasts and their food every day. He was

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Speaker 2: the billet so and I need the kitchen staff. So

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Speaker 2: we got some poison to put in the milk to

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Speaker 2: deliver to him. They can't have relied on to get

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Speaker 2: the poison. Got us a dad. So the whole thing

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Speaker 2: didn't work. But we did it. We actually we actually

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Speaker 2: did it. Just didn't work, you know as it well

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Speaker 2: as a way blood.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So the times that you've been in there, the

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Speaker 1: likes of like Chop I Red. You just spoke about

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Speaker 1: Carl when he was in the mccallo. Were you around

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Speaker 1: it and when all the all the ship was happening

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Speaker 1: at that time in Melbourne or you were you out

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Speaker 1: of there and doing other things?

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Speaker 2: We mean when they're all the births getting knocked. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but that was the ti tat thing going on. But

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Speaker 2: didn't involve you, No, No, he kept out of it. Well,

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Speaker 2: nothing to do with me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, if you didn't get no one tried to draw

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Speaker 1: you in.

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Speaker 2: I look someone asked me to do something, to get involved,

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Speaker 2: but I knew both sides. Yeah, so I just stayed

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Speaker 2: sat on the fence, but not my business. I knew

283
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Speaker 2: a lot of those guys that were and we're good blogs,

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Speaker 2: I mean most of them. But that is what it is.

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Speaker 2: You know, you live by the swords.

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Speaker 1: You've seen Sydney and you've seen Melbourne. You've been probably

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Speaker 1: over states too. Who do you think I'm gonna I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna say this the real deal, the real you've got.

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Speaker 3: You've got a lot of.

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Speaker 1: Underworld in different states here, all right, who's the real deal?

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Speaker 2: This is a tricky question because anyone could pay someone

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Speaker 2: of these unber.

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Speaker 1: Yeah I understand that, but but that But you know,

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Speaker 1: you see what's going on in Melbourne, you see what's

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Speaker 1: going on Sydney. You can see what goes on in

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Speaker 1: over States. But you know, I look at it and

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Speaker 1: go like, fuck, Melbourne's.

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Speaker 2: Pretty harsh, you know what I mean, We bang it on,

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Speaker 2: bang it on here. I mean they're very quick to

300
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Speaker 2: react here. If I have to compare, i'd say Sydney

301
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Speaker 2: more reactive, definitely, most Like they don't fuck around here

302
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Speaker 2: in Melbourne. Nine times out of tennant can be resolved

303
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Speaker 2: again is probably the last option. But here they're just

304
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Speaker 2: sure they don't fuck around here.

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Speaker 1: But you think you think, you think the old school

306
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Speaker 1: system's gone.

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Speaker 2: Now everything evolves, you know, we've gone from black and

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Speaker 2: white to color. Yeah, everything evolves even now, Like the

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00:14:12,641 --> 00:14:16,321
Speaker 2: amount of money evolved is massive as the how do

310
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Speaker 2: you resist that? Yeah, the earth of these young guys

311
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Speaker 2: that are you know, come from not much offered a

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Speaker 2: men or two to do it quicker, and I mean

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Speaker 2: it's very hard to and all these kids are willing

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Speaker 2: for some real I think all this exposure to the

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Speaker 2: Internet and all this exposure of violence on your phone,

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Speaker 2: they're sort of numbing people to consequences and the reality

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Speaker 2: of what's going on. I was never exposed to that,

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Speaker 2: so I can't imagine what this youth are going through

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Speaker 2: and how they're dealing with it. I suppose you they

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Speaker 2: embrace it where you shy away from it. But Sydney

321
00:14:47,321 --> 00:14:50,121
Speaker 2: is definitely a very serious date. I'd have to say,

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Speaker 2: if you're going to compare to answer that question, the

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Speaker 2: real the realer deal would have to be Sydney. You

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Speaker 2: go to the Winners West. We admit it. We prefer

325
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Speaker 2: not to kill you. We will do it. We won't

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Speaker 2: be happy about it.

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Speaker 3: You also liked God Honor.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, my first club when I was twenty twenty

329
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Speaker 2: three was that I loved it a lot of fun. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Was it just that, I think at the time to

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Speaker 1: get into the night life scene or would you not

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Speaker 1: get into it now?

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Speaker 2: No, the thing was because I started security today changing anything.

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Speaker 2: I actually knew anything. I understood well, I understood the door,

335
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Speaker 2: comparing it under there was money out of the bar,

336
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Speaker 2: and you could make money from night club so I'd

337
00:15:35,241 --> 00:15:37,121
Speaker 2: worked in them for a couple of years, so there

338
00:15:37,161 --> 00:15:40,001
Speaker 2: was a natural progression for us. And it wasn't it.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't just me as my brothers and we all

340
00:15:42,281 --> 00:15:44,401
Speaker 2: chipped in. We didn't have It wasn't big money. It

341
00:15:44,441 --> 00:15:46,921
Speaker 2: was like us eighty ninety thousand dollars for a club.

342
00:15:46,921 --> 00:15:49,241
Speaker 2: We spent about fifty renovating it. But back then it

343
00:15:49,321 --> 00:15:51,041
Speaker 2: was a lot of money, but not like here now

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Speaker 2: now you couldn't even get a fucking front door for

345
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Speaker 2: that money. But for us it was good. I mean,

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Speaker 2: like you have to appreciate we didn't come from anything.

347
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Speaker 2: We had no money, so to have a couple hundred

348
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Speaker 2: grand was significant when we worked. But we worked hard

349
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Speaker 2: even after I played for eighteen months two years on

350
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Speaker 2: occasion whenever was available. We didn't We didn't make millions

351
00:16:12,361 --> 00:16:14,961
Speaker 2: of dollars. We made money, but then we worked that

352
00:16:15,001 --> 00:16:17,161
Speaker 2: money and made more money. So I'm saying that I

353
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Speaker 2: told you earlier. I owned the street. I used my

354
00:16:19,721 --> 00:16:22,361
Speaker 2: forty thousand dollars that I earned as a deposit, and

355
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Speaker 2: I pre sold some of the sales some of the

356
00:16:24,481 --> 00:16:27,321
Speaker 2: land to develop it, and that's how and then I

357
00:16:27,361 --> 00:16:31,281
Speaker 2: sold some wine paid the remainderud and that's how I

358
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Speaker 2: developed it. I didn't go and pay five hundred thousand cash.

359
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Speaker 1: But was it hard for you because of your name

360
00:16:38,761 --> 00:16:41,641
Speaker 1: not to get harassed by the police?

361
00:16:42,161 --> 00:16:42,361
Speaker 2: You know?

362
00:16:42,521 --> 00:16:44,721
Speaker 1: And to show where you got things from? Were they

363
00:16:44,761 --> 00:16:45,601
Speaker 1: always on your case?

364
00:16:46,201 --> 00:16:48,201
Speaker 2: Not a lot? Back in the day. No, there was

365
00:16:48,241 --> 00:16:52,401
Speaker 2: no technology. When I went for the liquor license, I

366
00:16:52,441 --> 00:16:56,001
Speaker 2: had to go and be interviewed by the guy that

367
00:16:56,161 --> 00:16:58,001
Speaker 2: was in charge of that. He was an attain who

368
00:16:58,161 --> 00:17:01,281
Speaker 2: spoke broken English and the Batam. He said to me,

369
00:17:01,721 --> 00:17:05,360
Speaker 2: have you killed anyone in the past six months? I

370
00:17:05,361 --> 00:17:08,201
Speaker 2: said it was joking, I said, I said, no, you guys,

371
00:17:08,241 --> 00:17:11,640
Speaker 2: granted I'm not even joking. That's how easy it was.

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Speaker 2: Hell yeah, now, good luck.

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Speaker 1: Okay, we're going to get I want to I want

374
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Speaker 1: to talk about because you just you brought your brother

375
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Speaker 1: up and that and I've seen that there was a

376
00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:25,201
Speaker 1: there was a few cutouts in the papers that back

377
00:17:26,041 --> 00:17:30,840
Speaker 1: in the nineties, nineteen nineties that you were convicted for

378
00:17:30,961 --> 00:17:33,721
Speaker 1: Victoria's largest heroin bust back then.

379
00:17:34,001 --> 00:17:37,241
Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, back then it was huge. Yeah, that's one

380
00:17:37,241 --> 00:17:40,281
Speaker 2: point five killers. There was significant back then.

381
00:17:40,561 --> 00:17:42,761
Speaker 1: What made you get into that? Like into that did?

382
00:17:43,041 --> 00:17:43,160
Speaker 2: It?

383
00:17:43,201 --> 00:17:45,321
Speaker 3: Was just money? You wanted to make dollars? What was

384
00:17:45,321 --> 00:17:45,640
Speaker 3: it now?

385
00:17:45,801 --> 00:17:48,120
Speaker 2: I was fighting in Hong Kong and before I landed,

386
00:17:48,561 --> 00:17:50,201
Speaker 2: I was sick as I took off, and I think

387
00:17:50,241 --> 00:17:52,321
Speaker 2: the altitude name me really really out well by the

388
00:17:52,360 --> 00:17:54,281
Speaker 2: time I landed and I was staying with my Grandmaster,

389
00:17:54,721 --> 00:17:56,881
Speaker 2: who was head of the triads back the Yeah, very

390
00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,480
Speaker 2: significant person, and they because I was sweating and shivering,

391
00:17:59,521 --> 00:18:00,961
Speaker 2: I thought I was a heroin addict and the awfered

392
00:18:01,001 --> 00:18:03,281
Speaker 2: me heroin. So when I came back to Melbourne, I

393
00:18:03,281 --> 00:18:05,480
Speaker 2: was with the boys saying why I couldn't fight and

394
00:18:05,801 --> 00:18:08,120
Speaker 2: told the story just as I told you. One of

395
00:18:08,201 --> 00:18:10,801
Speaker 2: them popped up, So can you get some? I said,

396
00:18:10,801 --> 00:18:13,321
Speaker 2: I don't know, I'll ask, So next time my tongue,

397
00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:15,961
Speaker 2: I asked, And then I get a phone call A

398
00:18:16,041 --> 00:18:18,920
Speaker 2: few months later someone was pounds. It wasn't leaving Killows

399
00:18:19,321 --> 00:18:21,281
Speaker 2: had a pound and he had a price, and I

400
00:18:21,321 --> 00:18:23,241
Speaker 2: told him. He said, yes, I got it, and I

401
00:18:23,360 --> 00:18:25,241
Speaker 2: gave it to him. I'd never been exposed to drugs

402
00:18:25,241 --> 00:18:28,121
Speaker 2: prior to that. I mean, I knew that naughty, yeah,

403
00:18:28,441 --> 00:18:30,760
Speaker 2: but I didn't appreciate the significance of how bad they

404
00:18:30,801 --> 00:18:34,521
Speaker 2: were and the actual consequences. Plus you, now, I thought

405
00:18:34,561 --> 00:18:37,600
Speaker 2: you if you caught red handed and didn't understand this

406
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:41,760
Speaker 2: whole conspiracy ship. So I packed it in, fucked off

407
00:18:41,801 --> 00:18:43,881
Speaker 2: the perth, I board the club went away from that ship.

408
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:50,240
Speaker 2: But apparently there's not enough. Do you ever regret that

409
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:51,200
Speaker 2: packing it in?

410
00:18:51,441 --> 00:18:51,921
Speaker 3: Yeah?

411
00:18:52,041 --> 00:18:54,921
Speaker 2: I don't know what would have happened if I wasn't

412
00:18:54,921 --> 00:18:57,600
Speaker 2: exposed to it. Like it's a That really was the

413
00:18:57,640 --> 00:18:59,921
Speaker 2: beginning of my success financially, and it was a huge

414
00:18:59,961 --> 00:19:02,241
Speaker 2: learning curve for me, and even being incarcerated, I learned

415
00:19:02,281 --> 00:19:04,881
Speaker 2: a lot being in jail. So I regret the actions

416
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,321
Speaker 2: of my crime, but you know, the consequences being in

417
00:19:08,360 --> 00:19:11,481
Speaker 2: jail ten yures. Now, couldn't you a fact? Like, it's

418
00:19:11,521 --> 00:19:14,561
Speaker 2: just it's just life. We're still alive, We're still doing ship.

419
00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:15,481
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying?

420
00:19:15,721 --> 00:19:17,761
Speaker 3: Going back to jail, Like, what was it?

421
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:18,001
Speaker 2: How?

422
00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,201
Speaker 1: How was that going in for the when you first

423
00:19:20,201 --> 00:19:22,521
Speaker 1: went into jail? How was that for you? You're you're working

424
00:19:22,521 --> 00:19:24,521
Speaker 1: your way up to be somebody and you ask somebody.

425
00:19:24,561 --> 00:19:27,721
Speaker 1: You're known on the streets, you're knowing it, where you're living.

426
00:19:27,521 --> 00:19:28,041
Speaker 2: Who you are.

427
00:19:29,001 --> 00:19:31,041
Speaker 1: But to go into jail for the first time in

428
00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:35,281
Speaker 1: your life, how did that feel to you? It was

429
00:19:35,281 --> 00:19:37,720
Speaker 1: it scared? You give a fuck? Were you known as

430
00:19:37,761 --> 00:19:39,920
Speaker 1: you walked in? Were you greeted by people that you

431
00:19:40,041 --> 00:19:42,120
Speaker 1: mat in it? How? What was the time like in

432
00:19:42,281 --> 00:19:43,440
Speaker 1: it for the first time you went in?

433
00:19:43,521 --> 00:19:47,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, like the fucking welcoming reception When I got there,

434
00:19:49,041 --> 00:19:50,761
Speaker 2: it was a big It was a big deal. There's

435
00:19:50,761 --> 00:19:53,640
Speaker 2: a lot of news coverage, and like I said, Coburger

436
00:19:53,681 --> 00:19:56,841
Speaker 2: metz Or, most of the tenants were from my area,

437
00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:58,360
Speaker 2: so I knew a lot of people that was in jail.

438
00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:00,840
Speaker 2: I wasn't scared. There's nothing to be scared of unless

439
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:04,241
Speaker 2: you're a fuck with You really have nothing to fear

440
00:20:04,761 --> 00:20:07,241
Speaker 2: carry self, well, mind your own business. Don't have to

441
00:20:07,241 --> 00:20:10,000
Speaker 2: fear with anyone's business. You're going to be okay. But

442
00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:12,721
Speaker 2: you know, if you're an idiot, you're going to fall

443
00:20:12,761 --> 00:20:15,680
Speaker 2: into a whole. But no, I was it definitely wasn't scared.

444
00:20:15,681 --> 00:20:18,321
Speaker 2: I was a bit frustrated. Look, this is the thing.

445
00:20:18,360 --> 00:20:21,440
Speaker 2: You don't have time to feel sorry for yourself or

446
00:20:21,521 --> 00:20:23,761
Speaker 2: to worry about shit. You've got a big battle ahead

447
00:20:23,801 --> 00:20:27,801
Speaker 2: of you. It's you against them, the public prosecution, and

448
00:20:27,801 --> 00:20:30,201
Speaker 2: you have to sort through all your fucking paperwork, which

449
00:20:30,241 --> 00:20:35,281
Speaker 2: was mine was tenfolders. It was ridiculous, right, So you

450
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,161
Speaker 2: just focused on the battle ahead of you. Yeah, Jael's cool,

451
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,801
Speaker 2: man like, it's not cool, but it's a reflection on

452
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,561
Speaker 2: society with blokes. You have a laugh, your ege, you sleep,

453
00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,120
Speaker 2: your work, you get on with it like it's not

454
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:46,840
Speaker 2: the end of the world.

455
00:20:47,041 --> 00:20:48,640
Speaker 3: How did your parents react to it?

456
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:51,641
Speaker 2: Yeah they were devastated, of course, but I mean they're

457
00:20:51,681 --> 00:20:54,520
Speaker 2: called that their reaction there is a reflection of my reaction.

458
00:20:55,441 --> 00:20:59,001
Speaker 2: As long as I was cool, they were cool, It

459
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:04,680
Speaker 2: was okay. The screws were fucking terrified of us, rightly, so,

460
00:21:04,681 --> 00:21:08,321
Speaker 2: so they get greeted with respect. They were never disrespected,

461
00:21:08,360 --> 00:21:10,600
Speaker 2: and it was all good. If they ever played up

462
00:21:10,721 --> 00:21:13,521
Speaker 2: they got We went on with it inside and outside,

463
00:21:13,521 --> 00:21:15,960
Speaker 2: and they fucking knew that. We didn't interfere with anyone.

464
00:21:16,321 --> 00:21:19,400
Speaker 2: There's nothing to run, bro, you have problems with people,

465
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,000
Speaker 2: you sort them out. You know what is there to run?

466
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,120
Speaker 2: Unless you're fucking trafficking in jail, which I was not.

467
00:21:25,561 --> 00:21:28,561
Speaker 2: What is that to fucking run? Yeah? The objective he has

468
00:21:28,561 --> 00:21:31,921
Speaker 2: to get through every day without being cut. That's it.

469
00:21:32,441 --> 00:21:36,440
Speaker 2: There's lots of crews. There's this handful of proper alpha

470
00:21:36,481 --> 00:21:41,881
Speaker 2: men and they all mind their own business. The rest

471
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:44,561
Speaker 2: of the little fucking runners go stab that come. I

472
00:21:44,681 --> 00:21:45,000
Speaker 2: get that.

473
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:47,641
Speaker 1: So when you when you got when you got out,

474
00:21:47,961 --> 00:21:49,481
Speaker 1: what was your objective when you got out?

475
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:53,720
Speaker 2: Make money? Money's power. I was very lucky when I

476
00:21:53,721 --> 00:21:55,961
Speaker 2: got out. Within weeks, I got a phone call from

477
00:21:56,201 --> 00:21:58,360
Speaker 2: It's like a gift from God. I got a phone

478
00:21:58,360 --> 00:22:01,440
Speaker 2: call from some company saying that we go through dormant

479
00:22:01,481 --> 00:22:04,521
Speaker 2: companies that have been forgotten and when they have assets

480
00:22:04,521 --> 00:22:07,281
Speaker 2: in them, for a fee, we'll recover them for you

481
00:22:08,321 --> 00:22:10,640
Speaker 2: a spy, and then you're the director of this company.

482
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:12,640
Speaker 2: I said, yeah, I am. They said well, that's a

483
00:22:12,681 --> 00:22:15,120
Speaker 2: significant amount of money there, which like has to recovered us. Yes,

484
00:22:15,201 --> 00:22:19,080
Speaker 2: I would, and I did, and I already had a

485
00:22:19,120 --> 00:22:21,921
Speaker 2: few hundred thousand dollars off the bat and from there

486
00:22:22,281 --> 00:22:25,561
Speaker 2: a friend of mine from Perth, Charlie Jiglio and Jack

487
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,561
Speaker 2: Regal had secured the tour of Andrea per Chari the

488
00:22:28,561 --> 00:22:31,441
Speaker 2: first time in Australia, the blind oper singer. Yeah, muked

489
00:22:31,441 --> 00:22:34,200
Speaker 2: to the conductor and tea a la scala at the ballet.

490
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,481
Speaker 2: But before they would sign contracts, they wanted to tour

491
00:22:37,561 --> 00:22:39,680
Speaker 2: the country to check out the hotels and the venues

492
00:22:40,120 --> 00:22:42,440
Speaker 2: I think predominantly for Andre. And then needed eighty grand

493
00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:46,440
Speaker 2: and Charlie said, would you be interested? I like Charlie,

494
00:22:46,561 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 2: Charlie is as honest as the day is long. I

495
00:22:49,241 --> 00:22:51,880
Speaker 2: said sure, he said, but it's not guaranteed. That's no problem.

496
00:22:52,120 --> 00:22:54,961
Speaker 2: So I transferred to eighty thousand. They did their business

497
00:22:55,001 --> 00:22:57,200
Speaker 2: and we secured the tour. Then we on sold that

498
00:22:57,241 --> 00:22:59,841
Speaker 2: to IMG because it was too big for us, too

499
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:02,761
Speaker 2: big for them, Yeah, and we retained thirty three percent

500
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:06,200
Speaker 2: or thirty six percent, so I retained twelve percent. And

501
00:23:06,241 --> 00:23:08,601
Speaker 2: then they did the tours very successful, and then Jack

502
00:23:08,721 --> 00:23:11,201
Speaker 2: regally attain ran off with the money to Monte Carlo.

503
00:23:12,241 --> 00:23:15,761
Speaker 2: I check you right, fucking hell, you have the bulls

504
00:23:15,761 --> 00:23:18,120
Speaker 2: to do that. No, I got it, well, you got it.

505
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 2: Of course he was going nowhere. I jumped on the plane.

506
00:23:29,001 --> 00:23:31,201
Speaker 2: When we first had to deal with imj we recovered.

507
00:23:31,281 --> 00:23:34,761
Speaker 2: I recovered the money that I invested, everyone had recovered instantly,

508
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 2: and then the profit share he took he ran away with.

509
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,841
Speaker 2: So I said to Charlie, we're in Jack and tell

510
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:42,961
Speaker 2: him I've got a couple of men that I want

511
00:23:42,961 --> 00:23:46,280
Speaker 2: to put the park somewhere. I had to flush him

512
00:23:46,281 --> 00:23:49,201
Speaker 2: out discount and to book my hotel. I'm coming over

513
00:23:49,441 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 2: to Monte Carlo, I said, yeah, So he did. So

514
00:23:52,761 --> 00:23:54,360
Speaker 2: I flew in there and he had two bodyguards and

515
00:23:54,360 --> 00:23:59,041
Speaker 2: attained an English guy and they buckled really quick. So

516
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,201
Speaker 2: he got a big smack and then he disappeared. When

517
00:24:02,201 --> 00:24:04,400
Speaker 2: I got his English bodyguard to take me to his house,

518
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,801
Speaker 2: and I jumped the fence, broke in, checked it all out.

519
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 2: He wasn't there, just you know, a little map, bedroom, kitchen,

520
00:24:13,281 --> 00:24:16,441
Speaker 2: excess entries, weapons in and out, the usual ship. They're

521
00:24:16,441 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 2: not going to take me up the road to like

522
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 2: a store, to get a taser, a knife, some gaffe tape, right.

523
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 2: I knew he was going to report to Jack. And

524
00:24:26,521 --> 00:24:28,441
Speaker 2: then I get a phone call from New York from

525
00:24:28,481 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 2: another retain, Sam bar. He's invested, We've got a lot

526
00:24:32,521 --> 00:24:34,241
Speaker 2: of money and tied up with his caunt. He really

527
00:24:34,241 --> 00:24:36,881
Speaker 2: can't do what you're going to do. I said, yes,

528
00:24:36,961 --> 00:24:39,561
Speaker 2: I can. I guess can you just wait until tomorrow.

529
00:24:39,561 --> 00:24:43,400
Speaker 2: I'm going to fry in. This is Peter. Yeah. So

530
00:24:43,561 --> 00:24:45,880
Speaker 2: Peter flew in and we had a chat and he

531
00:24:46,120 --> 00:24:48,361
Speaker 2: he said he'll pay it. I said, he shure, Pete.

532
00:24:48,761 --> 00:24:53,681
Speaker 2: I was like, no, will pay it? I said, but committee,

533
00:24:53,681 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 2: he must pay it. Here's no fucking around him. I'm

534
00:24:55,721 --> 00:24:58,241
Speaker 2: not leaving without my money. He has now will paid

535
00:24:58,321 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 2: come to Perth next week. He's from Perth and before

536
00:25:00,721 --> 00:25:03,400
Speaker 2: and he did. So I went to Perth and got paid.

537
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,761
Speaker 2: That's you know that story? What hell? But you say

538
00:25:07,801 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 2: what I did there? That was theater. I was never

539
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,721
Speaker 2: going to kill him. I wasn't gonna do job for

540
00:25:12,761 --> 00:25:15,241
Speaker 2: this camp. Who was theater for the bodyguard. I knew

541
00:25:15,241 --> 00:25:17,400
Speaker 2: the bodyguard is going to report the camp and I

542
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,120
Speaker 2: was very serious about it. And that's very aggressive.

543
00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:20,321
Speaker 3: Did you always go alone.

544
00:25:20,561 --> 00:25:23,321
Speaker 2: Yeah, always around solid. You did not have to get

545
00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:26,641
Speaker 2: rid of any witnesses. So I was very aggressive, very sincere.

546
00:25:27,441 --> 00:25:29,481
Speaker 2: You know, a lot of it was theater, So I

547
00:25:29,561 --> 00:25:30,961
Speaker 2: knew he was going to report back to this count.

548
00:25:30,961 --> 00:25:32,561
Speaker 2: He was going to assumemself either it was going to pay,

549
00:25:32,561 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 2: who was going to fucking pay? Or never come back again.

550
00:25:35,561 --> 00:25:38,401
Speaker 2: And that's how I got my result in that particular instance.

551
00:25:38,681 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 1: How do you know what you're getting yourself into. If

552
00:25:40,241 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 1: you're going over to another country, or you going to

553
00:25:41,721 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 1: find someone you don't know who's there, you just you

554
00:25:44,281 --> 00:25:46,001
Speaker 1: do you stake out you just know them, or you're

555
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,921
Speaker 1: just you're going by instin I knew.

556
00:25:48,961 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 2: I was surprised you had two bodyguards, to be honest

557
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:52,360
Speaker 2: to do but it's such a flop his bodyguards or

558
00:25:52,360 --> 00:25:55,521
Speaker 2: flops as well. But you know, you just got I

559
00:25:55,561 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 2: knew my environment. I had a fair understanding of what

560
00:25:58,761 --> 00:26:02,400
Speaker 2: I was getting into, and my capacity back then was

561
00:26:02,561 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 2: far superior to their. You know, I lived in the

562
00:26:06,001 --> 00:26:08,400
Speaker 2: jungle for ten years, but you know, I know how

563
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,121
Speaker 2: to get it on. I don't know what to look for.

564
00:26:10,521 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 2: I know how to turn nothing into a weapon. So

565
00:26:14,481 --> 00:26:16,041
Speaker 2: if anyone was gonna have a problem. Would have been

566
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:16,521
Speaker 2: damned not me.

567
00:26:17,201 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: Tell me about the time you came to because I

568
00:26:21,041 --> 00:26:23,120
Speaker 1: had a little giggle when I've seen this one when

569
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,201
Speaker 1: he came to Double Bai and there's a security contract

570
00:26:26,201 --> 00:26:27,201
Speaker 1: off for grabs.

571
00:26:27,521 --> 00:26:29,521
Speaker 2: Yes, I get a call from kids on I think

572
00:26:29,561 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 2: there was a big fight on in said at the time,

573
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:34,801
Speaker 2: he said this a couple of boys whenever chat listen

574
00:26:34,801 --> 00:26:39,400
Speaker 2: nearing that problem, and it was twenty five John B

575
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 2: mcanty and Copper. I'd rudge them made if there was.

576
00:26:43,921 --> 00:26:46,360
Speaker 2: If we were being watched, that was a very colorful table.

577
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:47,481
Speaker 2: So I had no idea what I was going to

578
00:26:47,521 --> 00:26:49,321
Speaker 2: getting into. So I had another guy with me. I

579
00:26:49,481 --> 00:26:51,400
Speaker 2: had dropped me here and stay here. But you can

580
00:26:51,441 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 2: see the line aside, and he was toold up obviously.

581
00:26:54,360 --> 00:26:56,441
Speaker 2: I said, if I start scratching my head, just coming

582
00:26:56,481 --> 00:26:57,721
Speaker 2: shooting right, and.

583
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,041
Speaker 1: I for sure you yeah, yeah, if.

584
00:27:01,001 --> 00:27:02,761
Speaker 2: I scratched my head, that made just guns involved on

585
00:27:02,801 --> 00:27:04,160
Speaker 2: my arms. I just come in and just wave that

586
00:27:04,201 --> 00:27:05,680
Speaker 2: around and lit if you're going out, and then we'll

587
00:27:05,721 --> 00:27:07,281
Speaker 2: work it out as we go. So he stayed, he

588
00:27:07,321 --> 00:27:10,640
Speaker 2: sat off and just watched. Anyway, so we get there

589
00:27:10,761 --> 00:27:12,561
Speaker 2: meet great. I didn't know any of those guys except

590
00:27:12,561 --> 00:27:16,761
Speaker 2: for John. I had met Troy before. Actually, when I

591
00:27:16,801 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 2: first got out of jail, I was in Perth with

592
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,241
Speaker 2: Gregory Roberts and they threw a knight on for us.

593
00:27:21,561 --> 00:27:24,120
Speaker 2: He was he was only a non back then before

594
00:27:24,120 --> 00:27:27,481
Speaker 2: he grew the ranks, and he ran the ball for

595
00:27:27,561 --> 00:27:29,160
Speaker 2: him a lot. You know. It turned out there was

596
00:27:29,201 --> 00:27:31,321
Speaker 2: all they just because we're gonna havepen up Strip club

597
00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:34,120
Speaker 2: in Queensland and they ran they ran security there and

598
00:27:34,120 --> 00:27:35,841
Speaker 2: they want to know if that they can get the security.

599
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 2: We didn't. We didn't end up taking it. We're going

600
00:27:40,481 --> 00:27:42,201
Speaker 2: to buy one there and turn into a spermit rhiner.

601
00:27:43,001 --> 00:27:45,041
Speaker 2: We had the one in Melbourne. I was involved in

602
00:27:45,041 --> 00:27:47,160
Speaker 2: the one in Melbourne. I took that.

603
00:27:49,281 --> 00:27:50,521
Speaker 1: Is there anything you haven't taken?

604
00:27:51,801 --> 00:27:54,321
Speaker 2: That rude? But you got to can't be disrespectful. And

605
00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:57,201
Speaker 2: I think you come in my fucking world and carry

606
00:27:57,281 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 2: like a count, you're gonna get treated like a count.

607
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,041
Speaker 2: I didn't treat them like account They treated men like

608
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 2: a count. So come in here we go. So they

609
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 2: to pay him and I had cans ringing me. I

610
00:28:07,241 --> 00:28:09,721
Speaker 2: was in London one day the count NaN's fucking Lamborghini

611
00:28:09,801 --> 00:28:12,120
Speaker 2: and Melbourne is a fucking coronk brang me, he said.

612
00:28:12,721 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 2: At the club, he told the girls to look after me.

613
00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:18,401
Speaker 2: I said yes, so they put him on. I said,

614
00:28:18,481 --> 00:28:21,961
Speaker 2: he's not about bloke, you know, so I just don't

615
00:28:22,041 --> 00:28:24,201
Speaker 2: rape him too much sort of thing. So I came

616
00:28:24,201 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 2: back to Melbourne. The girls go bas your for he gels,

617
00:28:26,681 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 2: I said, I was in the acquaints, I said, because

618
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 2: he was, So what do you mean? He said, you're

619
00:28:30,721 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 2: a tire kicker or this or that. Ah took me

620
00:28:34,120 --> 00:28:36,561
Speaker 2: three years to find him. I was driving down the

621
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,441
Speaker 2: street in Chapel Street. I thought about him a lot,

622
00:28:39,721 --> 00:28:42,281
Speaker 2: but I'm not even joking. But I wasn't going to

623
00:28:42,321 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 2: get Hi my way. And there he was standing on

624
00:28:44,521 --> 00:28:47,801
Speaker 2: the fucking corner right. So I've pulled into the side street.

625
00:28:47,881 --> 00:28:49,761
Speaker 2: I said, bro come up here, here are you going?

626
00:28:49,801 --> 00:28:52,161
Speaker 2: He gets good, cracked him on the jaw, mate, broke

627
00:28:52,201 --> 00:28:57,361
Speaker 2: his fucking jaw, just left him there, dropped in the

628
00:28:57,401 --> 00:29:01,841
Speaker 2: counter buff Two years later, one of our supporters bought

629
00:29:01,841 --> 00:29:04,201
Speaker 2: a Lamborghini from him and they were folding and you've

630
00:29:04,201 --> 00:29:07,281
Speaker 2: given him like a roundred thousand deposits and he was

631
00:29:07,441 --> 00:29:09,121
Speaker 2: getting it back. I said, call and put me on

632
00:29:09,161 --> 00:29:11,441
Speaker 2: the phone. I put him on the phone. I said,

633
00:29:11,481 --> 00:29:14,881
Speaker 2: your fucking Doug. He paid straight away. But the point

634
00:29:14,921 --> 00:29:17,641
Speaker 2: is he came. He came to me. I didn't ring him.

635
00:29:17,641 --> 00:29:19,721
Speaker 2: He rang me. He said, can you sort this out?

636
00:29:19,721 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 2: And then he went about so you're in my world now,

637
00:29:22,281 --> 00:29:24,121
Speaker 2: I count This is how we fucking deal with things,

638
00:29:24,961 --> 00:29:29,361
Speaker 2: same as spiermat Rhino. They came to Victoria. They bought

639
00:29:29,401 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 2: a club of two brothers that were incarcerated. Inn't pay

640
00:29:32,801 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 2: him the last three hundred grand, which was fine. And

641
00:29:35,521 --> 00:29:37,921
Speaker 2: I was at the back in the lane way with

642
00:29:38,001 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 2: a couple of boys and I'm a friend of mine

643
00:29:39,521 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 2: just got out of child who was incarcerated with me.

644
00:29:41,321 --> 00:29:45,081
Speaker 2: Gary Lewer, world champion bodybuilder, champion bloke. He was looking

645
00:29:45,121 --> 00:29:46,761
Speaker 2: for me, I said, I met the rhine. I said.

646
00:29:46,761 --> 00:29:48,161
Speaker 2: He walked in there and he went to the office

647
00:29:48,161 --> 00:29:50,601
Speaker 2: and asked for me, and then he came. He found me,

648
00:29:50,641 --> 00:29:53,321
Speaker 2: and he was a bit he was really uneasy. I said,

649
00:29:53,321 --> 00:29:57,001
Speaker 2: what's wrong, Gary? Because I know nothing, I said, but

650
00:29:57,241 --> 00:29:59,281
Speaker 2: there's clearly something wrong. Is there something on your mind?

651
00:29:59,321 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 2: Like you look a little upset? He said, I'm just

652
00:30:02,201 --> 00:30:04,681
Speaker 2: not we just got out of jail. Because I'm just

653
00:30:04,681 --> 00:30:09,361
Speaker 2: not used people speaking about you in that manner he

654
00:30:09,521 --> 00:30:11,561
Speaker 2: was in maximum. He was im panted with me. When

655
00:30:11,561 --> 00:30:13,641
Speaker 2: Pendroit was closing, I was the last one on the bus,

656
00:30:13,641 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 2: and he saw how I rolled screws and fucking business

657
00:30:16,281 --> 00:30:19,401
Speaker 2: bro Like, I ran that shit up. I said, what

658
00:30:19,441 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 2: do you mean? He goes, Oh, they were just a

659
00:30:20,721 --> 00:30:22,921
Speaker 2: bit you know. I just didn't like how they spoke.

660
00:30:23,121 --> 00:30:25,281
Speaker 2: I said, not worry about it, bro, They're just fucking civilians.

661
00:30:25,321 --> 00:30:28,321
Speaker 2: But I made a mental note, and then I started

662
00:30:28,321 --> 00:30:30,921
Speaker 2: watching him and they were getting a bit cute. So

663
00:30:31,561 --> 00:30:35,801
Speaker 2: that following Friday, the principal owner was coming into town, right,

664
00:30:36,801 --> 00:30:40,361
Speaker 2: and I've been looking after these because the Crown Caserno.

665
00:30:40,361 --> 00:30:42,441
Speaker 2: I asked BE to look after him, and I said,

666
00:30:42,441 --> 00:30:44,321
Speaker 2: come to my restaurant for lunch. So I'd already pre

667
00:30:44,401 --> 00:30:47,121
Speaker 2: planned to lunch Friday morning, I said. The boys enter

668
00:30:47,161 --> 00:30:49,881
Speaker 2: the club, pistol whip the manager, the one that checkie

669
00:30:49,921 --> 00:30:53,041
Speaker 2: count and the part owner and told the whole place

670
00:30:53,121 --> 00:30:57,721
Speaker 2: upside down as you do, right, they fucking shit, Who

671
00:30:57,721 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 2: are they going to get to? They can show to

672
00:31:00,001 --> 00:31:04,201
Speaker 2: me right, they're in my world now. So I saw

673
00:31:04,361 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 2: that problem out took them to the I couldn't believe it,

674
00:31:07,281 --> 00:31:09,481
Speaker 2: I said, I said, I go to see the blakes.

675
00:31:09,481 --> 00:31:13,881
Speaker 2: They said, we want to come, said right, not the

676
00:31:13,881 --> 00:31:16,201
Speaker 2: one that got pissed a p himself for John Gray. Yeah,

677
00:31:16,201 --> 00:31:18,361
Speaker 2: he's a bit ballsy. It's got some dashes count. So

678
00:31:18,401 --> 00:31:22,001
Speaker 2: we took him away to fucking Jadnung tooled up. Get there,

679
00:31:22,401 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 2: lock it pulled off my jewelry theater. We go in

680
00:31:26,241 --> 00:31:29,321
Speaker 2: there and there's like ten blokes, serious fucking men, and

681
00:31:29,401 --> 00:31:31,561
Speaker 2: we was a throw off. The throw off was the

682
00:31:31,681 --> 00:31:33,881
Speaker 2: consider and jar haven't been paid there three hundred grand.

683
00:31:34,521 --> 00:31:37,201
Speaker 2: You feel me, right, I said, they'll get their money.

684
00:31:37,241 --> 00:31:39,201
Speaker 2: When they get their money, this counts with me. Fuck

685
00:31:39,281 --> 00:31:42,281
Speaker 2: off and they fucked off. So on the way back

686
00:31:42,681 --> 00:31:45,921
Speaker 2: for a lot of silence, Okay, what about this percentage

687
00:31:45,921 --> 00:31:48,401
Speaker 2: by because how point of this is our best to

688
00:31:48,401 --> 00:31:51,001
Speaker 2: buy into the fucking joint? Because yeah, yeah, we've thought

689
00:31:51,201 --> 00:31:53,121
Speaker 2: I'm going to we want you involved, he said, but

690
00:31:53,121 --> 00:31:55,121
Speaker 2: we don't want any money. We're going to pay for it.

691
00:31:55,161 --> 00:31:57,721
Speaker 2: So it was a gift. You see what I'm saying

692
00:31:58,161 --> 00:32:00,361
Speaker 2: the point of this is they've come to me for

693
00:32:00,441 --> 00:32:03,201
Speaker 2: help and they want to pay like cunts. So they

694
00:32:03,201 --> 00:32:05,321
Speaker 2: get you out of like cunts. And then I wrapped

695
00:32:05,321 --> 00:32:10,401
Speaker 2: them for the next seven fucking years. Boyeah, fair enough.

696
00:32:11,121 --> 00:32:12,321
Speaker 2: I don't see anything wrong with that.

697
00:32:12,361 --> 00:32:13,761
Speaker 3: Oh no, definitely not.

698
00:32:14,041 --> 00:32:15,521
Speaker 1: With all this going on in your life now, and

699
00:32:15,561 --> 00:32:17,801
Speaker 1: you said that, you know you joined the Mossoun. What

700
00:32:17,801 --> 00:32:18,401
Speaker 1: made you get out?

701
00:32:19,121 --> 00:32:21,481
Speaker 2: It was I had two young children, both going to

702
00:32:21,521 --> 00:32:23,881
Speaker 2: private school, and I was in the paper so often

703
00:32:24,841 --> 00:32:26,801
Speaker 2: anything that happened in Victoria that put a picture of me,

704
00:32:27,721 --> 00:32:34,841
Speaker 2: horrible picture photoshops that have my name in headlines, and

705
00:32:34,881 --> 00:32:37,121
Speaker 2: then they'd referred to me somewhere in the title, but

706
00:32:37,161 --> 00:32:38,281
Speaker 2: it had nothing to do with me. So I was

707
00:32:38,281 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 2: getting so much negative press that became a problem for

708
00:32:41,241 --> 00:32:43,161
Speaker 2: my kids. My kids have been nice stated at school,

709
00:32:43,161 --> 00:32:46,001
Speaker 2: they've been invited to parties. Parents are a bit fucking nervous,

710
00:32:46,001 --> 00:32:49,361
Speaker 2: and rightly so. In fact, they were they rallying bring

711
00:32:49,401 --> 00:32:51,001
Speaker 2: out back to try and get the kids expelled from

712
00:32:51,001 --> 00:32:53,521
Speaker 2: the school. So it became a personal problem for my

713
00:32:53,641 --> 00:32:56,881
Speaker 2: personal life. And if you're going to choose family or

714
00:32:57,001 --> 00:32:59,521
Speaker 2: bike World, I always choose family. So I thought it

715
00:32:59,521 --> 00:33:02,001
Speaker 2: was a good time. I'd ground the club to four chapters,

716
00:33:02,521 --> 00:33:06,241
Speaker 2: and there was nothing in Victoria that my number two

717
00:33:06,321 --> 00:33:08,721
Speaker 2: was ready to take over. It wasn't an overnight decision.

718
00:33:08,721 --> 00:33:11,481
Speaker 2: We've been discussing this for like six eight months. I

719
00:33:11,521 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 2: don't really know to find the hierarchy that I'm going

720
00:33:14,281 --> 00:33:16,881
Speaker 2: to exit. Shortly, everyone was cool with it and we

721
00:33:17,041 --> 00:33:18,961
Speaker 2: just transitioned. It was time. Look, I did it for

722
00:33:19,001 --> 00:33:21,161
Speaker 2: two years. It was a lot of fun, but it

723
00:33:21,561 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 2: became too noisy for me personally, too noisy, So it

724
00:33:25,561 --> 00:33:26,321
Speaker 2: was time to exit.

725
00:33:26,521 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: Didn't miss it, or it took you a while to

726
00:33:28,561 --> 00:33:31,841
Speaker 1: get you sweet, or you were like you I were.

727
00:33:31,841 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: You were ready for it, you were ready to get out.

728
00:33:34,681 --> 00:33:36,521
Speaker 2: I wasn't absorbed by the whole thing. It was just

729
00:33:36,561 --> 00:33:40,121
Speaker 2: like it was a you know, we do our weekly meetings,

730
00:33:41,641 --> 00:33:44,801
Speaker 2: organize our runs. We catch up once every month for

731
00:33:44,841 --> 00:33:48,841
Speaker 2: a ride, barely, and it wasn't like it wasn't it

732
00:33:48,881 --> 00:33:51,801
Speaker 2: wasn't the whole lifestyle that we did committ one hundred

733
00:33:51,801 --> 00:33:54,601
Speaker 2: percent of our time to all My members were you

734
00:33:54,921 --> 00:33:58,041
Speaker 2: fathers and employed, so we can really afford to be

735
00:33:58,121 --> 00:33:59,881
Speaker 2: in the club all the time and around the club

736
00:33:59,881 --> 00:34:02,401
Speaker 2: all the time. So for me, exident the club made

737
00:34:02,401 --> 00:34:05,241
Speaker 2: no real difference to me. I still had my associations

738
00:34:05,241 --> 00:34:05,761
Speaker 2: that I kept.

739
00:34:07,481 --> 00:34:09,121
Speaker 3: Do you have any regrets?

740
00:34:09,921 --> 00:34:13,841
Speaker 2: No, Look, everything's a learning curve. Oh my mistakes of

741
00:34:14,241 --> 00:34:18,201
Speaker 2: I'll hope I've learned from But yeah, you know, we

742
00:34:18,801 --> 00:34:20,961
Speaker 2: this is our life. We choose the part that we

743
00:34:21,081 --> 00:34:24,961
Speaker 2: choose and we do our best. Some things work out,

744
00:34:25,041 --> 00:34:27,881
Speaker 2: some don't. Befall, have you touch stuff off, you keep

745
00:34:27,921 --> 00:34:30,401
Speaker 2: plowing that you get back up.

746
00:34:32,841 --> 00:34:35,801
Speaker 1: What would you describe yourself in one.

747
00:34:35,641 --> 00:34:36,401
Speaker 3: Wad or two ways?

748
00:34:36,401 --> 00:34:38,841
Speaker 2: I'll give you now or then, well.

749
00:34:38,721 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 1: Let's go with both.

750
00:34:39,561 --> 00:34:40,921
Speaker 3: Let's see, let's see the change in this.

751
00:34:41,241 --> 00:34:43,041
Speaker 2: Well back then when I was, when I was arrested,

752
00:34:43,601 --> 00:34:45,681
Speaker 2: I would say I would be that county you'd fucking

753
00:34:45,881 --> 00:34:50,561
Speaker 2: hate if I if I knew him, I would love

754
00:34:50,641 --> 00:34:55,641
Speaker 2: like him at arrogant cocky thinks he knows everything. They

755
00:34:55,721 --> 00:34:58,201
Speaker 2: just want to punch him. Now, a lot more settled

756
00:34:58,241 --> 00:35:00,721
Speaker 2: I've been. I've got experience. I have a lot more empathy.

757
00:35:01,121 --> 00:35:03,801
Speaker 2: I understand when I do something that's a result or

758
00:35:03,801 --> 00:35:06,881
Speaker 2: a consequence, and you know, you try and be a

759
00:35:06,921 --> 00:35:10,441
Speaker 2: bit more respect for other people's time and space. You know,

760
00:35:11,161 --> 00:35:12,761
Speaker 2: I'm bomb one with you now you.

761
00:35:12,961 --> 00:35:16,001
Speaker 3: Were What's so? What's what's what's the thing now for you?

762
00:35:16,041 --> 00:35:18,641
Speaker 3: In the future? What what? What? What's your plans?

763
00:35:19,001 --> 00:35:20,961
Speaker 2: I'm still going but I haven't stopped.

764
00:35:22,241 --> 00:35:23,321
Speaker 1: Because you brought the book out.

765
00:35:23,841 --> 00:35:26,881
Speaker 2: Yeah, the book's entertainment. Yeah, yeah, we did that. But

766
00:35:27,161 --> 00:35:28,881
Speaker 2: I did that because I had I've been a time

767
00:35:28,921 --> 00:35:30,721
Speaker 2: on my hands. I was stuck on the couch for

768
00:35:30,761 --> 00:35:34,721
Speaker 2: a couple of years, so pushed out a book. No

769
00:35:34,841 --> 00:35:39,161
Speaker 2: TV thing, possibly TV. Can't say too much, but you

770
00:35:39,201 --> 00:35:41,481
Speaker 2: know it's it's generating a lot of interest. I'll just

771
00:35:41,481 --> 00:35:41,921
Speaker 2: say that.

772
00:35:42,121 --> 00:35:43,361
Speaker 3: But you're happy with yourself now.

773
00:35:43,401 --> 00:35:46,121
Speaker 1: You're settled and mature now, as you said, so, you've

774
00:35:46,481 --> 00:35:48,641
Speaker 1: you're happy with the way things are going in life now.

775
00:35:48,921 --> 00:35:52,641
Speaker 2: I've always been happy. I've never been unhappy. Right, Everything

776
00:35:52,721 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 2: is good. I like a bit of excitement. Everyone likes

777
00:35:56,441 --> 00:35:59,001
Speaker 2: a bit of excitement. Man, things interesting.

778
00:36:00,521 --> 00:36:04,001
Speaker 1: Well, thanks for coming on, sure, but I'm grateful for

779
00:36:04,041 --> 00:36:06,761
Speaker 1: your time today, and I'm glad you came on to

780
00:36:06,761 --> 00:36:07,361
Speaker 1: show your story.

781
00:36:07,481 --> 00:36:11,041
Speaker 2: Thanks so much, appreciate it. H