1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,600 Speaker 1: This podcast was recorded on the land of the Gadigall 2 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: people of the Eur Nation. 3 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:10,879 Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to the Real Story with Joe Hildebrand. 4 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 2: It's a pleasure to have your company and we've got 5 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 2: a first class show for you this week. Speaking of 6 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 2: first class, see what I did there? Yes, we're going 7 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 2: to be talking about the Prime Minister and his history 8 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 2: of airline upgrades? Does he really have a hotline to 9 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 2: quantus CEO Alan Joyce? Plus what is going on in America? 10 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 2: Just when you thought the election couldn't get any closer 11 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 2: or weirder? Trump has just been caught out calling Puerto 12 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:45,200 Speaker 2: Rican's garbage and then Joe Biden has suddenly called half 13 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 2: the country garbage. Did that actually really happen? We'll be 14 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:52,519 Speaker 2: unpacking that. Plus what went on with the Queensland election 15 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 2: Stephen Miles. Did he pull off a miraculous loss that 16 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:00,080 Speaker 2: was somehow better than the loss he was otherwise going 17 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 2: to have, so it kind of is likely won, except 18 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 2: he still lost? And how did abortion become a political 19 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 2: issue in Australia. We're going to be chatting to someone 20 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:11,400 Speaker 2: who has a very stark warning for the Libs, and 21 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 2: that is do not touch this with the barge bowl 22 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 2: all that much much more coming right up first up 23 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 2: this week, of course, is the issue that is dominating 24 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 2: the news. It's been what six seven days straight, probably 25 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 2: more by the time you're listening to this, and it 26 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 2: is killing the poor old PM. This is the story 27 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:38,959 Speaker 2: of upgrades that the Prime Minister Anthony Albanezi either solicited 28 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 2: or received from Quantus for a number of trips, including 29 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 2: personal trips that he took with his family where he 30 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 2: booked an economy ticket, paid for it with his own money. 31 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 2: Good on him, no problems there, fantastic, but then either 32 00:01:55,600 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 2: sought or received an upgrade from Quantas Possibly it is 33 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 2: alleged at the instruction of CEO Alan Joyce, but the 34 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 2: PM says without having actually spoken to Alan Joyce, but 35 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 2: nonetheless authorized by the CEO, which would guarantee him a 36 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 2: business class and I think in one case first class 37 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 2: ticket on his overseas journey. Now, I think all of 38 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 2: us would taken up grade if we could get it. 39 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 2: But the problem was that for some of these trips 40 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 2: Anthony Albanezi was the Transport Minister, so technically he was 41 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 2: the boss in charge of the airline industry in Australia 42 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 2: prior to that. For some of them he was just 43 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 2: a lowly MP, so hey take it, why not? And 44 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 2: none of this actually occurred during his prime ministership, but 45 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 2: it's come out during his prime ministership and that is 46 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 2: the problem. Once more, like when he bought the four 47 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 2: and a bit million dollar cliff top house in beautiful 48 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 2: downtown Copacabana Beach. It's just not a good look in 49 00:02:57,760 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 2: the middle of the cost of living crisis, even though 50 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 2: he didn't take any of these flights in the cost 51 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,959 Speaker 2: of living crisis or when he was even Prime minister. 52 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 2: So what is actually going on here, Well, there is 53 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 2: no suggestion that the PM actually did anything for Quantus 54 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 2: in return for these upgrades, although that is precisely what 55 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 2: is being suggested by some of his critics. So people 56 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 2: are suggesting that the fact that Anthony Albanezi received all 57 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 2: this largesse from Quantus might have something to do with 58 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 2: Qatar Airways being denied extra births at Sydney Airport or 59 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 2: into Australia. There has been absolutely no evidence produced for 60 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 2: that whatsoever. But that is the kind of miasma that 61 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 2: is floating around this and the nudge nudge wink wink 62 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 2: suggestion that some people are trying to make. Now why 63 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 2: is this important? Well, this goes to the ministry or 64 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 2: Code of Conduct, which states ministers must not seek or 65 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 2: accept any kind of benefit or other valuable consideration, either 66 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 2: for themselves or for others, in connection with performing or 67 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 2: not performing any element of their official duties as minister. 68 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 2: So you would have saying I broke that up into 69 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 2: two segments, and you'll hear a lot of people talking 70 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 2: about the first half. Ministers must not seek or accept 71 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 2: any kind of benefit or other valuable consideration, either for 72 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:29,479 Speaker 2: themselves or for others. Now that is not actually true 73 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 2: in and of itself. You can seek or accept any 74 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 2: kind of benefit if you're a minister, and you can 75 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 2: have your argument about whether that's appropriate or not. What 76 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 2: is important, what matters is that it can't be in 77 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 2: connection with performing or not performing any element of your 78 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 2: official duties as minister. So Anthony Albanezi gets the upgrade, 79 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 2: no problem, that is not inappropriate at all under the 80 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:55,359 Speaker 2: Code of Conduct. But if of course he gets the 81 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 2: upgrade and then says, ah, no, I'm going to protect quantities, 82 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:03,040 Speaker 2: you know, mark a share by not allowing Katar airways 83 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 2: into Australia. Obviously that's a problem. Or if you do 84 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 2: not do something, if you say, well, I'm not going 85 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 2: to act on this as a result or after getting 86 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 2: this upgrade, if those two things are connected, and again 87 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 2: it says it cannot be in connection with it, so 88 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 2: a little bit blurry, but no one has actually been 89 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 2: able to establish that yet. But it kind of doesn't 90 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 2: matter because, as the old saying goes, in politics, perception 91 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 2: is reality. And so if people think, oh, you know, 92 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 2: you got that upgrade and then you did a favor 93 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 2: for Quantas, doesn't matter. If that's absolutely not true. All 94 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 2: that matters is that people think it, or that that's 95 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 2: just the connection they form in their minds. It's the vibe. 96 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 2: This is why the PM is in a bit of 97 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 2: hot water this week. This is why the buying of 98 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 2: the four point three million dollar cliff top house on 99 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 2: the Central Coast is a bit of an issue for him. 100 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 2: It's not that he did anything wrong. He did actually 101 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 2: nothing wrong. Anyone would want to buy that if they 102 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 2: could afford it. In fact, he aide less than the 103 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 2: house actually changed hands for at the previous sales. So 104 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:08,239 Speaker 2: this is a great Sydney success story. He beat the market, 105 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 2: and of course at any other time people were going, yeah, 106 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 2: all right. But again it's just the look of doing 107 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 2: that in the middle of a housing crisis that everyone 108 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:21,359 Speaker 2: else is going through just a little bit off. And again, 109 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 2: even though the PM didn't do anything wrong, none of 110 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 2: this occurred when he was actually the PM. The fact 111 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 2: that it's kind of come out in the middle of 112 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 2: a cost of living crisis when few of us can 113 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 2: afford to even get on a plane in the first place, 114 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:36,359 Speaker 2: let alone go it at the pointy end. It just 115 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 2: puts together a jigsaw puzzle where the pieces seem to 116 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 2: fit even if they don't actually fit. So it's just 117 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 2: building up a bit of a picture of a vibe 118 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 2: of you know, a PM who's you know, doing great, 119 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 2: all the rest of us are struggling, and that is 120 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 2: the pickle that he's in. And of course I say 121 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 2: that as someone who loves the little fella very much. 122 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:02,479 Speaker 2: But the good news for the PM is that all 123 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 2: these travel scandals are always self extinguishing because as soon 124 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 2: as they get raised, and as soon as someone gets 125 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 2: pulled out and said, oh, you know, you took that 126 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 2: up grade or you did that travel roar or you 127 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 2: did this or that. It instantly emerges that absolutely every 128 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 2: single politician has also done it, and this is going 129 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 2: to be the PMS saving grace. In fact, it's been 130 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 2: suggested that if this was actually a parliamentary sitting week, ironically, 131 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 2: this issue would be dead in the water because of 132 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 2: course all the people accusing the PM of doing something 133 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 2: wrong had done the exact same thing. They're all members 134 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 2: of the Chairman's lounge. Everyone's a member of the Chairman's 135 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 2: lounge except me. Make me a member of the Chairman's lounge. 136 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 2: Mister Joyce, I'll do whatever you want. Have as many 137 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 2: roots as you want. R U. T. E. S. Point B. 138 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 2: You've had. You know, Peter Dunton has his business interests, 139 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 2: you know everywhere he's got a trust. Fun and good 140 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 2: on him. You know he's doing well in life. But 141 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 2: he's received the upgrades. He's in the chairman's lounge. Bridget 142 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 2: mackenzie came up and said, I never had an upgrade. 143 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 2: Then she had to go back and checked it. Oh oops, 144 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 2: turns out I didn't have an upgrade. You know. There 145 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 2: was a travel rought scandal that emerged in the first 146 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 2: term of the Howard government, and it got so ugly, 147 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 2: so quickly, with so many accusations against so many politicians, 148 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 2: had very nearly tragic consequences. And after that everyone just said, 149 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 2: you know what, we're just not going to talk about 150 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 2: this anymore. We're just gonna stop. They really did. They 151 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 2: just shook hands and said, no more travel rot stories. 152 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 2: The travel rotting continued, just not the stories. And again 153 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 2: it happens again and again. We've seen it with the 154 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 2: back and forth over the Bronwan bishop's famous helicopter ride, 155 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 2: and then there was fallout from that on the other 156 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 2: side and other MPs had to repay money that they'd claim. 157 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 2: So again, this is one of those things that you 158 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 2: probably want to keep stullm on. You know, did the 159 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 2: prime minister get an upgrade? Well, yes, but when he 160 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:03,680 Speaker 2: was prime minister? Do you really want to bring out 161 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 2: a sort of shamefile of all the politicians who have 162 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 2: got upgrades over the past. So sure, I'll make it 163 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 2: easy for you them. And now let's talk about the 164 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 2: other biggest story on the planet, and that is the 165 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:25,080 Speaker 2: complete and utter implosion of the US Democratic Party. It 166 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 2: is just phenomenal. Honestly, you could give these guys a 167 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 2: pineapple and a blender, and instead of making a pina kolata, 168 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 2: they'd stick there in the blender and shove the pineapple 169 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 2: up there. The latest thing that has happened was a 170 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 2: giant gift for the Dems in the US. This was, 171 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 2: of course, the giant Trump rally that they're all losing 172 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 2: their minds over in Madison Square Garden in New York. 173 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 2: They'll saying, oh, to a Nazi rally, to Nazi rally, Ah, 174 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 2: that's Nazis everywhere. Never mind the fact that there were 175 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 2: Jewish people speaking at the rally endorsing Donald Trump. Oh yeah, no, no, no, 176 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 2: But apart from the Jewish thing, he's a Nazi, Like 177 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 2: the Jewish thing was pretty central to what it meant 178 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 2: to be a Nazi. Fyi. The whole thing was kind 179 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 2: of built around that, kind of you take the Jewish 180 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 2: thing out of Nazism, they're kind of not Nazis anymore anyway, 181 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 2: little history lesson for your lefties anyway, losing their minds, 182 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 2: saying it's a fascist rally, Nazi rally, greatest threat to 183 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,359 Speaker 2: American democracy ever. He's going to make himself a dictator. 184 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 2: You know, there'll never be another election again. They're literally 185 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 2: saying this, you vote for Donald Trump, you'll never get 186 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 2: to vote again because he's going to make himself a 187 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 2: dictator because he's a Nazi fascist. Yep, it's all out there. 188 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:36,079 Speaker 2: They're all saying it. The warm up to this big extravaganza. 189 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 2: There's some comedian that I've never heard of. I'm not 190 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 2: even sure if he's a comedian. Didn't seem to be 191 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 2: particularly funny, and he made the following gag like, I 192 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 2: don't know if you guys know this, but there's literally 193 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 2: a floating island of garbage in the middle of the 194 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 2: ocean right now. 195 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's called Puerto Rico. 196 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 2: Now. That is because apparently Puerto Rico has some kind 197 00:10:56,240 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 2: of garbage collection problem or there's trash. I don't know, 198 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 2: never been there, always thought it sounded really nice. I 199 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 2: only really know it from the song in West Side Story. 200 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 2: But still point being, this guy has called Puerto Ricans 201 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 2: guard Now. Puerto Ricans are citizens of the US, but 202 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 2: they don't vote in US elections. Just another fun fact 203 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,559 Speaker 2: about how weird the US political system is. I'm not 204 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 2: sure how you can actually be a citizen yet not 205 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 2: be entitled to vote in the elections of the country 206 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 2: you're a citizen of. But whatever. So it's a territory 207 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 2: of the US. It's not a states, so it doesn't 208 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 2: have voting rights because the electoral college system, as you 209 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 2: would have seen in my amazing viral TikTok video what 210 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 2: everything was, the electoral college system is what determines the 211 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 2: US presidential election, and only states have those college systems. Whatever. 212 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 2: Watch the video. Point being, however, Puerto Ricans do have 213 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 2: lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of 214 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 2: family members in the US who are proper US citizens 215 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 2: living in states who can vote in the US presidential election. 216 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 2: And so a whole bunch of people are saying, right, well, 217 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 2: that's it. He's just you know, he's just pissed off. 218 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 2: He's just called you hundreds of thousands of people in 219 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 2: the US garbage, and these are people who can vote. 220 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:11,079 Speaker 2: He's saying, well, he said their homeland is garbage. And 221 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 2: of course it was actually Donald Trump who said it. 222 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 2: Was some warm up guy, but you know whatever, he 223 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 2: was at a Trump rally, and you know, they're all 224 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 2: fascists and Nazis and everything, so why not Trump of course, 225 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,680 Speaker 2: very quickly distanced himself from the guys that I don't 226 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 2: know who he is. I don't know what he said. 227 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 2: You know whatever, No, it's not me, it's just some guy. 228 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 2: You know that. When Trump is distancing himself from you, 229 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 2: it's ah. Those comments were a bit out there for me, 230 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 2: probably gone too far. So this is a great gift 231 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 2: for the Democrats. Right, This is an absolute out of 232 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 2: the blue moment. This is manner from heaven. This is 233 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 2: just a ray of sunlight in what is an increasingly 234 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 2: despondent campaign where they seem incredibly likely to lose. Donald 235 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 2: Trump is odds on favorite to win next Tuesday. So 236 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 2: what do the Democrats do? Well, out comes old sleepy 237 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 2: Joe Biden. They juice him up, and he re enters 238 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 2: the world. I mean, everyone's forgotten the guy's president still, 239 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 2: But anyway, out he comes and he says this, And. 240 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 3: Just the other day, I speaker at his rally called 241 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 3: Puerto Rico a floating island garbage. Well, let me tell 242 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 3: you some I don't know the Puerto rican that I know, 243 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 3: or Puerto Rico where I'm in my home state of Delaware. 244 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 3: They're good, decent, honorable people. The only garbage I see 245 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:34,479 Speaker 3: floating out there is just supporters. 246 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:39,319 Speaker 2: Yes. Joe Biden responds to Donald Trump's warm up guy 247 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:45,559 Speaker 2: calling Puerto Rico garbage by calling Donald Trump supporters garbage, 248 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 2: which is basically half the US voting population with a 249 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 2: week to go before an election. He calls half the 250 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 2: voter's garbage. And then Joe Biden comes out and says, oh, no, no, no, no, 251 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 2: no no. I wasn't calling Donald trum Trump supporters plural garbage. 252 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 2: I was referring to that one Donald Trump supporter, i e. 253 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:13,079 Speaker 2: The warm up guy. I was referring to his garbage. 254 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 2: It was supporters with an apostrophe. Thanks for clarifying that, Joe. Really, 255 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 2: and again, it's just so so bad. I've just never 256 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 2: seen anyone be handed a gift like this and just 257 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 2: managed to make it blow up in their face. This 258 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 2: is not even like handing someone a grenade and then 259 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 2: pulling the pin and it blowing up in their face. 260 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 2: This is like them building a bomb from scratch just 261 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 2: so it can blow up in their face. It is unbelievable, 262 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 2: and this is why the Democrats have to lose. Donald 263 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 2: Trump does not deserve to win this election, but the 264 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 2: Democrats deserve to lose it. They have so completely and 265 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 2: utterly and thorough screwed this up right from the outset, 266 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 2: right from not tapping Joe Biden on the shoulder and 267 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 2: say no, no, old man, you are not going to 268 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 2: run for a second term. You are not mentally fit. 269 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 2: From them denying that he had any cognitive impairment until 270 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 2: it was so clear for everyone to see that they 271 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 2: ended up having to roll in but rolling him when 272 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 2: he was too late, rolling him before they could get 273 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 2: literally any other candidate who would actually beat Donald Trump, 274 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 2: any of them. There was a whole field of them 275 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 2: out there, a whole field who could have run the 276 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 2: primary has been properly blooded, properly vetted, ready to go 277 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 2: match fit shredded. Instead, they leave it so late that 278 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 2: the only person who can actually be subbed in is 279 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,239 Speaker 2: Kamala Harris, who performed worse out of all the candidates 280 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 2: in the twenty nineteen presidential primary when she went up 281 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 2: against Joe Biden, who was literally picked purely because she 282 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 2: was a black woman and they needed something to offset 283 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 2: an old white man. And she's the only one they 284 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 2: can put in because they screwed it up by leaving 285 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 2: it for so long and denying what was obvious to 286 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 2: absolutely everybody. And this is where we get to the 287 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 2: numb of it, because let's say that they're actually right. 288 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 2: Let's say that Donald Trump really is a threat to democracy, 289 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 2: that Donald Trump is a fascist or a Nazi, and 290 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 2: he's going to make himself dictator of the greatest democracy 291 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 2: on earth if they really believe that, And all they 292 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 2: were going to do to try to stop it was 293 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 2: put up old, sleepy Joe Biden. And then their next 294 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 2: best plan was to put up someone who couldn't even 295 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 2: articulate a thought in her head, who doesn't even remember 296 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 2: what her position is on a raft of issues that 297 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 2: she's asked about, the two worst most incompetent possible candidates 298 00:16:57,840 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 2: you can think of in what is supposed to be 299 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 2: the greatest democracy on earth. That's what they were going 300 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 2: to stop, the greatest threat to the greatest democracy on 301 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 2: earth with. That was their secret weapon. This is like 302 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 2: someone saying that country's got an add on bomb and 303 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 2: we need to fight it with this plastic fork. Very quickly, 304 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 2: before we get to our incredible interview this week, just 305 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:27,120 Speaker 2: touching on the Queensland election results, you would have heard 306 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 2: on this show and again you hear everything here. First, 307 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 2: that group, a new party called Legalized Cannabis Party, were 308 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 2: the new besties with the Labor Party and this gave 309 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 2: the Labor Party the option to pony up with another 310 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 2: party on the left instead of the toxic Greens who 311 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:44,199 Speaker 2: they're basically at war with. And the Greens are just 312 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 2: horrendous people who associated with extremism and just awful, awful, awful, 313 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,399 Speaker 2: And of course the Greens got absolutely smashed at the 314 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 2: Queensland state election because of their anti semitism and the 315 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 2: extremism with which they've been associated. And the great beneficiaries 316 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 2: of horse were Labor Party in the Brisbane seats that 317 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 2: they're trying to hold onto and now they're thinking, maybe 318 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:07,879 Speaker 2: we can actually take one or two seats off the 319 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:12,439 Speaker 2: Greens at the federal election and our friends the Legalized 320 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 2: Cannabis Party, and I am told that the Labor actually 321 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 2: picked up about three seats, or managed to save about 322 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,639 Speaker 2: three of its seats and pick one up from the 323 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 2: Greens because of those Legalized Cannabis preferences. So you heard 324 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 2: it here first. That is going to be replicated at 325 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 2: a federal level at the next federal election, where you 326 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:38,440 Speaker 2: will see Labor and Legalized Cannabis preference each other first 327 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 2: in all the seats that the Legalized Cannabis Party is 328 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 2: running in, and of course they're going to have a 329 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 2: crack at the Senate as well, and that gives Labor 330 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 2: a chance to distance itself from the Greens and all 331 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 2: their toxicity. So that is the big play that's going 332 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,919 Speaker 2: on in the left of politics at the moment. And 333 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,400 Speaker 2: you heard it all here first told you. So You're 334 00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:04,679 Speaker 2: welcome Australia. My guest this week is one of my 335 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,440 Speaker 2: favorite people. She's whip smart. She heads up a joint 336 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,880 Speaker 2: called Agender c which runs campaigns for various clients, including 337 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 2: the Liberal Party, and she has a particular insight into 338 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,679 Speaker 2: politics that I think a lot of people miss. She 339 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 2: seems to be able to sort of thread the needle 340 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 2: while other people are sort of wading around in the weeds. 341 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 2: And she joins me right now, Parnell pal McGuinness, Welcome 342 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 2: to the real story. 343 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,399 Speaker 1: How are you great? Thank you so much for having me. 344 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 2: It is an absolute pleasure. You wrote an absolute ripper 345 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 2: of a column a couple of days ago in the 346 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 2: aftermath of the Queensland election result, and that was a 347 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:48,119 Speaker 2: campaign and possibly an outcome that was marred for the 348 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 2: LNP by the intrusion of an abortion debate that I 349 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:57,440 Speaker 2: think most Queenslanders and most Australians didn't even know we 350 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 2: were really having. Can you just talk us through through 351 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,360 Speaker 2: the background and how that issue crept into the Queensland 352 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:05,440 Speaker 2: state election campaign. 353 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a funny one, isn't it. So i'man at 354 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,639 Speaker 1: the top level what happened, of course, is that Robbie Catter, 355 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,360 Speaker 1: the son of Bob Catter and part of the Catter Party, 356 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:19,399 Speaker 1: the franchise Island Franchise, which is put it on the 357 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 1: agenda by saying that after the election, if the Liberals won, 358 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:28,200 Speaker 1: he would raise the issue of decriminalized abortion in Queensland 359 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 1: with the objective of potentially reversing that decriminalization. So he 360 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: stated that, well, it didn't come out of the Liberal 361 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: Party or the coalition in any way, but it became 362 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: an issue, firstly because it was so close to an election, 363 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: but secondly, of course because the South Australian Liberal Party 364 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: has discussed this. There was a born Alive bill put 365 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: to the South Australian Parliament recently, and of course there 366 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: are elements within the Liberal Party, particularly on the conservative side, 367 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:04,440 Speaker 1: which are very concerned about abortion and about the scope 368 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: of the abortion that's available in Australia. Some of them 369 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 1: would like it banned entirely. They're entirely pro life. Some 370 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 1: of them think that our laws are simply too relaxed. 371 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 1: And of course there was a set of conferences at 372 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: the beginning of this month which I've sort of referred 373 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:23,159 Speaker 1: to in my article as the Conservative Coachella because C 374 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 1: packs Conservative Conference and ARC, which is the Alliance for 375 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 1: Responsible Citizenship we're in Australia, And of course all of 376 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: the Conservatives were having a wonderful time talking to one 377 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: another and reaffirming each other's beliefs. And at ARC, Just Enterprise, 378 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 1: Senator just Centerprise, who we all might remember from The Voice, 379 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: was asked about her views on abortion and she said 380 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 1: that in her view, late term abortion is infanticide, so 381 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 1: it's killing a baby, not just you know, whatever we 382 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,399 Speaker 1: think of it as So that of course went around 383 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 1: the media a lot of people concerned does this mean 384 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: that abortion access is now under question in Australia, And 385 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 1: it was certainly seized upon by the Labor Party as 386 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: an opportunity to put pressure on the Queensland election because 387 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:17,120 Speaker 1: the Labor Party is completely aware, as anybody who looks 388 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 1: at stats should be, that a vast majority of Australians 389 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 1: are in favor of legal and accessible abortion eighty two 390 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 1: percent according to Pure Research. 391 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 2: That is a spectacular summary where it's now. I think 392 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 2: most people would be familiar with the fact that abortion 393 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 2: is something that comes up again and again in US elections. 394 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 2: It's a bit like, you know, it's abortion and it's 395 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,920 Speaker 2: gun control, and it's abortion and it's gun control. And 396 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,400 Speaker 2: these are really hot button issue that are not necessarily 397 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 2: first order issues for most Americans, but they are for 398 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,120 Speaker 2: the people who care about them, issues that they will 399 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,439 Speaker 2: vote on above anything else. So you've got these are 400 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 2: vote turning issues, these get out the vote issues where 401 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 2: gun owners or people who are very strongly anti abortion 402 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,399 Speaker 2: will come out and vote on this issue alone. They 403 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,119 Speaker 2: will get off their couch and they will go and 404 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 2: vote on it. And the difference between American and Australia, 405 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:13,680 Speaker 2: obviously is we don't need to get out the vote. 406 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 2: Everyone's rocking up already, and that means our political system 407 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 2: tends to be much more moderate and tends to gravitate 408 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,959 Speaker 2: around issues that affect the middle rather than issues that 409 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 2: affect the highly impassioned kind of fringes or activist elements 410 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 2: on the left and the right. And yet suddenly we have, 411 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 2: right in the middle of a state election campaign, abortion 412 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:39,400 Speaker 2: being front and center. David Chris A. Fooley has kind 413 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 2: of been outflanked, if you're like, he's been dragged into 414 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 2: this morass by Rob Catter. He can't really deny it 415 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 2: or say no, no, no, we support abortions. They're great, 416 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 2: because that will upset his conservative base. But of course 417 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,719 Speaker 2: he can't say he's going to do it because that 418 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 2: will upset the mod base. Suddenly no tel alert, deal alert, 419 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 2: tall alert, til alert. And then Labor thinks, how on 420 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,920 Speaker 2: a minute, we can then weaponize this little grenade that's 421 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 2: been dropped on the right from the left and force 422 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 2: and so and Chris A. Fooley, I suppose he just 423 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,200 Speaker 2: sort of flaps around in the middle, doesn't it. He lets 424 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 2: this thing sort of run around like a balloon with 425 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,680 Speaker 2: the air let out without actually saying this is our position, 426 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 2: without being categorized. 427 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,399 Speaker 1: Right until just before the election went in a debate 428 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: he said, this is my position. Nothing is going to 429 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 1: change under our government. But yeah, absolutely, and that is 430 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,679 Speaker 1: exactly as you characterize the issue in the party is 431 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:41,879 Speaker 1: that the extremes tend to be have very strong views 432 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,479 Speaker 1: on this one way or another, and our politicians in 433 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:49,239 Speaker 1: our system are still beholden to the extremes, just as 434 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,120 Speaker 1: on the left, you know, Sa, I'm on the left, 435 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,440 Speaker 1: is on the right because the people who join political 436 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:58,920 Speaker 1: parties generally have much more extreme views than the people 437 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 1: who vote in everyday elections. 438 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 3: Right. 439 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: So, in a way, the job of a leader within 440 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: a political party is first of all to get pre selected, 441 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,199 Speaker 1: to get into the position of power that they have 442 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 1: by appealing to their base, to the people who are 443 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:17,680 Speaker 1: members of their party, but then somehow from that position 444 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 1: of having appealed to those people to reach out to 445 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 1: the broader populace and moderate their party to make them 446 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: appeal more widely. 447 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:28,200 Speaker 2: So you've got to appeal to your base when you're 448 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 2: getting pre selected and then get as far away from 449 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 2: them as possible when you're going to a general election. 450 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 1: That's right. And you know, abortion, as you said, in 451 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 1: the US, it's a huge issue, but we have imported 452 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: that a bit in Australia and so it is an 453 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 1: issue within the Liberal Party and in some places where 454 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: it's very difficult because there is a very nuanced discussion 455 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,959 Speaker 1: to have around it. But some people within the party 456 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 1: want a really unnuanced view presented by their leaders, just 457 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:57,399 Speaker 1: as on the left as well. I would say on 458 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 1: the same issue, there's a kind of super extreme version 459 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,639 Speaker 1: which is basically no regulation, don't even think about it, 460 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: don't even talk about it, just keep it eye over 461 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 1: the news. 462 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:08,959 Speaker 2: So and this is where you come in, and this 463 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 2: is where you've you've basically offered some sanguine advice to 464 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,400 Speaker 2: Peter Dutton and the Liberal Party more generally, and you've 465 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 2: basically said, do not open this pandora's box. Do not 466 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 2: touch this issue with a barge pole, because it will 467 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:26,120 Speaker 2: turn around and bite you. 468 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,199 Speaker 1: Why is that, Look, I would actually offer that advice 469 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,399 Speaker 1: to both sides of politics, frankly, because the moment that 470 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:37,639 Speaker 1: you open this issue, you get into a really difficult ground. 471 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 1: Like I have described abortion in the past as a 472 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: conflict of rights effectively, so you know, essentially when a 473 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,119 Speaker 1: woman gets pregnant, all of a sudden, there is a 474 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,959 Speaker 1: conflict if she doesn't want to be pregnant, between her 475 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 1: and the baby that she is carrying. So you know, 476 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: there has been an attempt on the left to characterize 477 00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 1: that as a clump of cells and so on. But 478 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: you know, unfortunately, modern medicine is really really good and 479 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: we know that, you know, dismissals like that are really 480 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: just sophistray. So the question is how do we negotiate 481 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: that conflict of rights. And the way that we do 482 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,119 Speaker 1: that in Australia is we effectively say, in the first 483 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 1: three months of pregnancy, it's the rights still belong to 484 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 1: the woman. She has sovereignty over her body and she 485 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,920 Speaker 1: can make that decision for whatever reason she says fit. 486 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:32,199 Speaker 1: In the next trimester it's more of a contested area, 487 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,679 Speaker 1: you know, and then we say, well, this is really 488 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:38,120 Speaker 1: about the health of the mother, but also if there 489 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 1: is a health reason for the fetus to be aborted. 490 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,200 Speaker 1: So and then in the last trimester, more or less 491 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: our agreement is well, at that stage that's a late 492 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,680 Speaker 1: term abortion and we're really the rights sit with the 493 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:52,199 Speaker 1: baby unless there is. 494 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 2: Right live outside. 495 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: So with modern medicine, a fetus is now viable from 496 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: about twenty four weeks, which is terrifyingly early if you 497 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: think about it. In that trimester series. So you know, 498 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,679 Speaker 1: depending where you sit on the abortion debate. Now, of course, 499 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,400 Speaker 1: if the Liberal Party opens this can of worms and 500 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: everybody has a purity test to pass as to what 501 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: stage do you think it's okay for a woman to 502 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 1: still have that sovereignty over her body. Where all of 503 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 1: a sudden, in a discussion which a lot of women 504 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 1: are going to get very engaged in, and possibly not 505 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,439 Speaker 1: on the side of the Liberal Party, but also the 506 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 1: extremity of the views on both sides, is going to 507 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 1: end up in a in an unholy mess. 508 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 2: It's going to be ugly. I mean, this is and 509 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 2: it's just such an incredible I think anyone who has 510 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 2: any experience with these issues, I know this is incredibly 511 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 2: It's an incredibly intense, personal, often traumatic thing to have 512 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:53,719 Speaker 2: to deal with and go through. It's the last thing 513 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 2: you want to turn into a political pig skin to 514 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 2: be thrown around. That's a battlefield and election. 515 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 1: That's right, and you know, I mean, this is the 516 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 1: other thing that often happens. It's sort of you know, 517 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: the Liberal Party is in a difficult position with this 518 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: because a lot of the time, the discomfort with abortion 519 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: ends up in a situation where they're almost de facto 520 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 1: blaming women for being in this situation in which they 521 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 1: might need or want an abortion, instead of looking at 522 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 1: it from an empathetic perspective, which is, look, any late 523 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: term abortion is actually a tragedy, and it's a tragedy 524 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,719 Speaker 1: from the woman's perspective as much as from you know, 525 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: whatever potential life there might be. How do we look 526 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 1: at it as a tragedy and understand that abortion doesn't 527 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 1: cure that tragedy. It is just abortion is a symptom 528 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 1: of tragedy. So can we in fact look at how 529 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: we might find other solutions to that, you know, and 530 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 1: that is really the nuanced discussion that needs to be had. 531 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 1: The left doesn't want to have it because that might 532 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,959 Speaker 1: in some way they feel in john women's rights, and 533 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: the right doesn't want to have it because they are 534 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 1: so so blusteringly pro life at that stage that they 535 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 1: can't understand that there might be or they don't want 536 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 1: to understand essentially that there might be something much more 537 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: tragic for everybody going on there. 538 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 2: And so you see ways where with your experience and 539 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 2: mastery of the dark arts of political campaigning, where if 540 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 2: either side was to be tempted to sort of weaponize 541 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 2: this issue, as has happened in the Queensland start election already, 542 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 2: that you could basically atomize any side that tried. 543 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 1: To absolutely it would you know, a good campaigner, even 544 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 1: a mediocre campaigner on an issue like this, could absolutely 545 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 1: destroy either side of politics with this issue because it 546 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 1: is really tricky, and you know, much as I would 547 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 1: normally tap for, I really don't want it on this 548 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: on this particular issue, because this is the kind of 549 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 1: discussion that we shouldn't be having in a political forum. 550 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 1: This should be an off legislation issue where we look at, Okay, 551 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 1: if something is happening that is inhumane, or if a 552 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 1: tragedy is going on in women's lives, how can we 553 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 1: deal with that in a non legislative, non politicized way, 554 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: because it really needs to be regarded in that social 555 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,240 Speaker 1: in the social side of things, rather than in the 556 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 1: political side. 557 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 2: And I think that's a symptom of what's happening in 558 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 2: politics at the moment. And I think it's in part 559 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 2: because of social media, because we've got the whole world 560 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 2: the town hall, in our phone, in our pocket. Politics 561 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 2: has become so much more personal and there don't seem 562 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 2: to be any lines anymore. There don't seem to be 563 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 2: about Maybe I'm just naive, and I mean, you know, 564 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 2: back in ancient rhyme, they just used to kill people 565 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 2: or beat them to death with clubs in the forum, 566 00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:58,680 Speaker 2: and that's how they got things up. So political bait 567 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 2: has been robusted the past, it seems. I'm imagining, and 568 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 2: maybe tell us how you would frame a campaign, but 569 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 2: I'm imagining that. I've got a friend who's Lebanese Christian 570 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 2: and her mum was going off to vote and a 571 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 2: Green voter handed her how to vote. Cant said, oh, 572 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 2: would you like to vote for the Green today? And 573 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 2: she just said, your murder babies and just that, And 574 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 2: that's what the campaign would look like, wouldn't It would 575 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 2: be the right if left raised it, it would be 576 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 2: the right saying you murder babies. And if it was 577 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 2: the right raising it would be the Left saying Peter 578 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,120 Speaker 2: Dutton wants to get inside your body and tell you 579 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 2: what to do. 580 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. 581 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 2: No one wants that, and nobody. 582 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 1: Nobody wants nobody. 583 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 2: I'm sure Peter Dutton. Another context, I'm sure Peter Dutton's 584 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 2: wife is anyway, Yeah, I'm just going to stop. I'm 585 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:53,719 Speaker 2: going to stop. The point being it is such an 586 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 2: incredible moral quandary, and I wasn't even I wasn't even 587 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:58,760 Speaker 2: sure if I wanted to get to it, because I 588 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 2: cannot wrap my head around. It's actually just one of 589 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 2: those things. And I'm aware of the issue, obviously, and 590 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 2: I'm aware of the debate, and it's something that you know, 591 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 2: I reckon. I've got the answers to just about everything, 592 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 2: and that is something where I think, oh my god. 593 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 2: And again, you can imagine a scenario, for example, where 594 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 2: perhaps a woman was a victim of sexual assault exactly 595 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 2: that she wasn't aware, or someone who was underage, or 596 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 2: you know, someone who was in denial didn't realized they 597 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 2: were pregnant, which happens as well. And so there are 598 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 2: all potential reasons why this could happen in just that 599 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 2: fining number of circumstances. And then of course the idea 600 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,040 Speaker 2: that you would have and alive baby outside the worm. 601 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 2: Then obviously that triggers a whole bunch of other ethical questions. 602 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 2: And again there's the last thing you want to have 603 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:51,959 Speaker 2: in an election cafe. 604 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: Politically, full stop. I mean Honestly, I do not want 605 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,880 Speaker 1: the people in Parliament who yell at each other during 606 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 1: question time discussing what I can do with my body 607 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 1: or not, you know, especially in right, especially in circumstances 608 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 1: of immense tragedy. I just think that we need to 609 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:11,880 Speaker 1: as a society. You know, at the moment, we have 610 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,759 Speaker 1: this thing where everything we don't like is something that 611 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: has to be solved by government, and you know what, 612 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 1: some things government is just simply not competent to solve. 613 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:27,280 Speaker 1: We need to look at from a social perspective and say, okay, 614 00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 1: recognizing the tragedy, how can we wrap services around a 615 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:37,040 Speaker 1: tragedy to not make it not tragic, because you know, 616 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: but to help everybody involved in that situation, everybody stuck 617 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: in that particular situation. 618 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,360 Speaker 2: I suppose when you've got a huge amount of medical trauma, 619 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 2: you don't go and see your local MP. You go 620 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,400 Speaker 2: and see your local GP. So maybe that's where we 621 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 2: should love it. Partel people get us. It's an absolute 622 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:56,239 Speaker 2: pleasure to have you on the show. Pleasure to see 623 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 2: you as always. Thanks so much for joining us on 624 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 2: the real story. Thank you, and that's all we have 625 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,799 Speaker 2: time for on this bumper episode. Thanks so much for 626 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,360 Speaker 2: your company. It's been an absolute pleasure. Speaking for myself, 627 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,360 Speaker 2: I hope you had a good time too. 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You can also 636 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 2: slide into my dms on the gram that's at Joe 637 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,759 Speaker 2: Underscore Hildebrand on Instagram, and of course you can read 638 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 2: my columns in the Daily Telegraph and other news court 639 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:46,160 Speaker 2: mass heads right around the country every Monday and Saturday. 640 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:47,959 Speaker 2: Thanks very much and I'll see you next week.