WEBVTT - Sharri | 29 August 0:00:01.560 --> 0:00:03.239 Live on Sky News. 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:05.120 This is Sharry. 0:00:07.000 --> 0:00:10.000 I'm still Shari markson last time I checked. Good evening. 0:00:10.039 --> 0:00:12.959 Welcome to the program. Tonight of battle lines drawn as 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:15.640 New South Wales Premier Chris Mins hits out at the 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:20.079 Albanzi government over the goldmine debacle, and Barnaby Joyce and 0:00:20.079 --> 0:00:23.840 Matt Keane go head to head on energy, Barnaby accusing 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:27.800 the Prime Minister's new Climate Authority chair of living in 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:31.000 the Wizard of Oz. The Daily Telegraph editor Ben English 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:35.640 would join me shortly. Plus Albanezi embarrassed on the world stage. 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:39.159 I'll speak with my panel about his hot mic moment shortly. 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:43.000 And can Kamala Harris be president if she needs her 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:46.120 running mate to hold her hand for her first sit 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:48.519 down interview. I'm going to come to that in just 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:52.279 a moment, but first, Chris Mins has hit out at 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:56.160 Tanya Plibasek for killing off the billion dollar gold mine. 0:00:56.680 --> 0:01:00.520 It's a staggering battle between New Southell's labor and the 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:04.600 Albanezy government over the mine that's planned for Blaney near 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:08.200 Orange and Mens didn't hold back in his support for 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:11.000 the mine. In an interview at the Daily Telegraphs Bush 0:01:11.040 --> 0:01:15.800 summit today, following on from remarks he first made yesterday. 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:18.679 We wanted to go ahead. We think it's too important 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:22.560 for Blaney for regional economies. I had a meeting this 0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:25.320 morning with the Mayor of Blaney about this particular issue. 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:27.440 I want to send a message that we're open for business. 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:30.600 I'm disappointed by the decision from the Commonwealth Government. 0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:32.280 You disagree with the reversim to live. 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:33.680 I said that many times and. 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:37.640 So in your view, tenure Plebasik using that power was 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:38.479 Shubazi error. 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:44.759 Yes, and Opposition Leader Peter Dutton also weighed into this today, 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:48.360 saying the Albanezy government was ruining the economy. 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:52.240 When you get ten year Plubusk closing a mind for votes, 0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:55.200 you know that this government's gone off track. This government 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:57.480 is doing an enormous amount of damage to the economy 0:01:57.840 --> 0:01:59.880 and I think Australians are starting to see through that. 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:02.160 Well. 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:05.000 The New South I was premier, had earlier said he 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:09.160 was disappointed and he quoted the Land Council submission that 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:13.000 said we question the motives of people and organizations who 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:18.400 participate in promoting unsubstantiated claims and seek to hijack Aboriginal 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:23.320 cultural heritage in order to push other agendas and there 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:27.280 had already been five years of processes and approvals, but 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:30.920 then Plebisk stepped in at the eleventh hour to block it. 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:34.200 She cited Section ten of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:37.800 Islander Protection Act. She said that she took the advice 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:42.720 of the Wiriji Traditional Owners over the Orange Local Aboriginal 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:46.760 Land Council, which had no objections to the mine going ahead. 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:51.880 The Rotary Traditional Owners Central West Aboriginal Corporation is the 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:57.799 group that I've acted to. They have asked me to 0:02:58.000 --> 0:03:01.160 act to protect this area as cotually significant and I've 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:04.600 taken their advice that it is culturally significant for them. 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:06.920 This is the same group of people that the previous 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:09.200 Environment Minister Susan Lay listened to. 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:14.720 But one prominent Wirajuri man, who is also a former 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:18.040 chair of the New South Wales Aboriginal Land Council, said 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:22.160 that Indigenous culture was being hijacked for other agendas, and 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:25.919 he said he'd never heard of artists, Nirie Reynolds, all 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:29.600 the eighteen members of the Wirerajury owners that are now 0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:30.880 objecting to the. 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:34.880 Mind, why all people be rolling in their grave if 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:39.960 they knew that our culture has been hijacked for hidden agendas, 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:41.840 and it's. 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:42.360 Not right. 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:46.160 In those comments. Also today the Bush Summit, there was 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:47.880 a lot of news coming out of it. As I said, 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:50.040 we're going to get to ben English in a minute. 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:53.440 But Tanya plubisk is now in a way trying to 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:57.400 walk back or explain away her decision. She says the 0:03:57.480 --> 0:04:00.720 mind can go ahead, but in a different location. She 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:04.960 says she only objects to the location of the tailings down. 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:10.280 My job as the Environment Minister is to protect aberiginal 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:13.760 in terres strait is under cultural heritage, and that's what 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:16.039 I'm doing well. 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:18.680 It seems, and this is what critics are accusing her 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:22.320 of of making a decision on a whim by passing 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:25.960 the five years' worth of approvals by both state and 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:30.960 federal departments. And it's understood that Plimisek is frustrated at 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:35.480 this scrutiny. Even her own Prime Minister is struggling to 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:36.120 defend her. 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:39.359 Chris Minz would like it to go ahead. I'd like 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:42.360 to go ahead too. There's nothing to stop it. 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:46.200 There are other options, nothing to stop it. Only his 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:51.080 own minister unrival Tanya Plimisek. But this isn't just about 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:55.159 one gold mine. What's important here is the message that 0:04:55.279 --> 0:05:00.360 this sends about Australia's reliability to potential investors. It says 0:05:00.360 --> 0:05:04.680 that investing in Australia is too high a risk to take. 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:08.640 But the Prime Minister isn't across the detail of what 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:11.039 any of his ministers are doing, and this is part 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:14.640 of the problem. And Albinizi seemed far more annoyed at 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:19.160 a journalist today recording him having an informal conversation in 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:23.560 public with a US official than he did with Plebisex's decision. 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:28.360 It's only when a hot mess explodes with a popular 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:32.560 labor premier coming out against his own side that Albanezi 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:40.279 bothers to pay attention. Now. Kamala Harris wants to be 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:43.360 the leader of the free world, taking on the West's 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:47.800 enemies in China, Iran and Russia. Well, how can she 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:51.800 hold that ambition if she needs her running mate to 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:57.000 hold her hand during her first media interview. Harris wants 0:05:57.040 --> 0:05:59.719 to be president of the US, yet she's been too 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:04.240 scared to face any serious scrutiny. In the five weeks 0:06:04.240 --> 0:06:07.520 since Joe Biden backed out of the race, Kamala Harris 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:12.280 has not done one tough interview. She has finally agreed 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:16.200 to front up and she'll do her first interview Thursday night, 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:20.520 US time eleven am tomorrow our time. But there's a catch. 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:24.640 It's with a friendly journalist on a left leaning media outlet. 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:27.880 It's a pre record, not live, and she won't do 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:31.680 it alone. Her running mate Tim Walls will be there 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:36.480 beside her. Kamala Harris has chosen CNN host Dana Bash 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:39.719 to do the interview, and it's not hard to work 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:42.960 out why when you look at what Dana has said 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:46.320 about Kamala and the Democrats in the past. 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:51.960 I just want to do a little bit of record correcting. No, 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:55.440 there's not record crime right now. Number one, Harris was 0:06:56.320 --> 0:06:59.160 put in charges, you said earlier of combating the roots 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:01.120 of immigration. She was not and is not. 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:01.840 The borders are. 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:04.200 I've spent time with Doug Emhoff. By the way, side note, 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:05.680 I just have to get this in there because I 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:09.960 love this. The video that played before his speech, narrated 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:13.640 by their son. His ex wife produced it. Right, there's 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:16.680 a lot for President Biden to tout. Americans don't seem 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:19.120 to be giving him the credit. Why is that and 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:20.160 what does he have to do to. 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:20.840 Turn that around. 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:24.440 The former president falsely claimed that the vice president quote 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:27.800 happened to turn black for political reasons. You are the 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:30.840 only black woman right now serving in the US Senate? 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:31.760 What do you make of all this? 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:35.760 And as for doing the interview with Tim Walls, well, 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:40.360 even all the CNN commentators have criticized Kamala Harris for this. 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:45.120 I think it's incredibly weak, weak sauce to show up 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:47.680 with your running mate, the fact that they don't have 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:50.720 enough confidence in her to let her sit herself the 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:53.360 actual top of the ticket and do a single interview. 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:55.960 In fact, I think the hand ringing and the gyrations 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:59.760 over this over the last month show a troubling lack 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:03.000 of confidence in her political ability, which also makes you wonder, 0:08:03.040 --> 0:08:04.600 as a voter, well, what kind of president would you 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:07.680 be if this kind of a small time decision? Can 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:09.720 we do an interview or not? What does that look 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:11.200 like for your decision making process? 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:16.360 Now, if CNN doesn't do a tough interview, it will 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:19.840 destroy what's left of the credibility of their news network. 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:24.360 The Australian's Washington correspondent Adam Crichton says that CNN needs 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:27.520 to ask why does she now support a border wall 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:31.560 that she once dubbed medieval. Why is she now an 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:35.600 advocate for fracking after stating there is no question I'm 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:39.360 in favor of banning fracking, And why is there still 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:44.440 not a single policy listed at KamalaHarris dot com. But 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:47.400 Crichton says her strategy of not speaking to the media 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:51.120 has been working. It's been effective. She's just ahead of 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:54.679 Trump in national polls and this is a stunning turnaround 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:58.679 in a little over a month. Now. Trump is also 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:01.760 to blame for this. He's been criticized for sharing a 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:05.440 sexist post that implies Kamala Harris only got to her 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:10.560 position owing to sexual favors. And Donald Trump hasn't yet 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:17.520 successfully reframed his political campaign to target Kamala Harris. But 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:21.520 Trump's many faults, flaws, and foibles are well known to 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:25.640 the American public. He is by now a known quantity. 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:30.560 Kamala Harris isn't. In fact, The Wall Street Journal editorial 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:34.360 board says she's the least known presidential candidate in modern 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:38.439 history and has had the least amount of media scrutiny. 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:42.160 The paper's editorial says that having was as a chaperone 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:45.920 in this interview with a parachute to rescue her is 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:50.080 an insult to American voters. They said the vice president 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:53.760 was handed the nomination in an inside job a month ago. 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:57.960 Her views on the crucial issues she'd confront as president 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:01.640 aren't clear, and what do we know has been dribbled 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:04.360 out in campaign press statements that we are supposed to 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:08.400 accept is her real views? Her campaign speeches amount to 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:14.240 little more than gausey rehetoric and vibes. Her strategy is 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:17.440 to float at forty thousand feet from here to November, 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:20.640 when we will all learn what she really intends as president, 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:24.880 or perhaps more accurately, what her advisors and the Barack 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:29.360 Obama aids now running her campaign intent. They say, how 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:32.080 can we know what is true if miss Harris dodges 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:36.560 serious questioning? I think those points by the Wall Street 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:41.360 Journal editorial board are accurate and strong. And isn't Kamala 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:44.920 embarrassed that she can't handle a media interview on her own? 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:49.400 How can she possibly tell Americans to elect her when 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:53.000 she's too scared of holding her own with journalists? And 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:55.720 how can Americans expect her to stand up to the 0:10:55.840 --> 0:11:00.000 ayatolas of Iran president? She or putin if she can't 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:03.839 even face a tough interview with a single American journalist. 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:09.000 If Kamala Harris wins in November, many political analysts have 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:12.000 said she would be the most left leaning president to 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:16.280 sit in the Oval office. Her positions on foreign and 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:20.560 economic policy aren't just a matter of critical importance to 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:25.920 the United States, but they've got reverberations globally too. Still 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:29.720 regretting the blowtoch that they apply to Hillary Clinton, the 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:33.200 establishment media in the US are now rolling out the 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:37.040 red carpet for Kamala without so much as a raised 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:42.400 eyebrow over her inconsistent policy positions. Those running for the 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:50.319 highest office need to be subject to more scrutiny. All right, 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:53.840 let's bring in now tonight's panel, National Senator Matt Canavan 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:57.880 and The Australian's National affairs editor Joe Kelly. Welcome to 0:11:57.920 --> 0:12:00.760 you both. Matt, let's start with this issue. What's your 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:03.719 view of the fact that mainstream media outlets in the 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:09.280 US have failed comprehensively failed to interrogate what Kamala Harris's 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:13.079 policies actually are, what she's taking to the election, what 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:14.000 she stands for. 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:17.360 Look, it is. 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:22.840 Concerning you'd hope in any open, transparent democracy you get 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:26.800 a proper scrutiny of all candidates. Certainly does seem some 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:30.000 sections of the media era are not really playing the 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:34.120 job as watchdogs, the cheerleaders. Cheerleaders for one side, and 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:38.120 really you're getting a situation now where Joe Biden, when 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:41.200 he was running from the basement, was doing more interviews 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:44.560 during COVID lockdowns. Then you're getting from Carmla Harris here, 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:47.000 who's trying to run a very scriptive campaign. So look, 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:48.600 I think it is also very concerning for the world 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:50.920 in a situation where we really don't know who's leading 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:54.400 the US right now. We've got a lot of challenges 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:57.280 around the world, a lot of conflicts going on, and 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:00.840 the US is the world leader in these things. Unfortunately, 0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:02.440 there's a bit of a backing right now. 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:04.640 Exactly a lot of people say, oh, this is up 0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:06.920 to the American people, and obviously they're the only ones 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:08.960 who get devote but actually it is a matter that 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:11.520 concerns all of us. You know, if the US goes 0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:14.320 into a recession, well that's a problem for us here 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:18.600 as well. Not to mention foreign policy, Joe I mentioned 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:23.480 there that Donald Trump is a known quantity to Australians 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:27.679 to Americans. For all his faults, they know him, but 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:30.800 there seems to be more style than substance. The Wall 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:33.680 Street Journal calls it a vibe when it comes to 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:35.080 Kamala Harris's campaign. 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:40.080 What do you think, well, Sherry, I think it's very 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:43.959 good that Kamala Harris has agreed to do an interview 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:47.760 with mainstream media. Sure it's CNN, shor it's with DNA Bash, 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:50.720 who had very positive things to say about Kamala Harris's 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:54.240 speech at the Democratic National Convention, but she was criticized 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:57.800 for not talking to the mainstream media, and as Adam A. 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:00.360 Crichton has said, that seems to be working for us 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:02.480 so far. So I think it's good that she is 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:05.560 fronting up and doing an interview to begin with the 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:08.600 issue about whether Tim Waltz is there as a crutch 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:12.160 to hold her hand. I'm not sure if that's a 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:15.400 request from the Democratic team, whether that was part of 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:17.800 the request from CNN. At the end of the day, 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:20.160 it's all going to boil down to her performance, how 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:23.280 effective she is at actually answering some of those questions 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:26.440 about the flip flopping. If you remember the campaign that 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:29.200 was run against John Kerry on the flip flop issue 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:31.520 back in two thousand and four. It was very effective, 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:35.480 very devastating against him. So she will need to be effective. 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:40.120 And I share your hope that it is a serious 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:43.120 interview and that she has asked some tough questions. 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:45.680 Yeah, and she does need to be able to explain 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:49.320 if she has changed those positions and how and what 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:53.960 has changed. Now let's turn to domestic politics. Although the 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:56.800 PM is of course overseas, and he was caught on 0:14:56.840 --> 0:14:59.200 a hot mic moment, as you call it. This was 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:02.440 on the sideline of the Pacific Islands Forum. He was 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:07.400 saying to Kurt Campbell that perhaps their four hundred million 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:11.600 dollar Pacific Policing Initiative could be shared the cost. He 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:12.800 was kind of joking about it. 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:17.800 Have a look, we had a cracker today getting the 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:19.400 Pacific Policing initiative. 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:20.520 This fantastic. 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:23.360 It is so important made. 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:27.800 It's a script and I talked with Kevin about it then, 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:30.000 so you know we were going to do something of 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:30.840 the s S ninety. 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:32.960 So we did nothing. We're just having a chat giving 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:34.400 you a void. 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:35.360 Take theween. 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:36.960 Half. 0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:38.240 He's on the cost if you like. 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:43.600 So Kirk Campbell very clearly there said we were going 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:45.840 to do something, but I spoke to Kevin. Kevin right, 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:47.720 he asked us to hold back, so you know, we 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:52.800 let you have the runway. Albanezy wasn't too impressed that 0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:55.680 a journalist took and posted the video. Have a look. 0:15:56.360 --> 0:15:57.680 The video is what it is. 0:15:57.960 --> 0:15:58.360 Someone. 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:03.720 Yeah, it's up to them to whoever did that, to 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:08.200 think about their own ethics when it comes to journalism. 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:13.120 There was a private conversation. It was a jovial conversation, 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:17.040 a friendly one. You know, it is what it is. 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:21.760 Look, Matt, it was in a public place. It's an 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:24.240 issue of public interest. It wasn't like they were in 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:27.680 a private room. They were standing there, open in the public. 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:33.760 So did the New Zealand radio journalist do anything wrong here? Well, look, 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:34.040 first of. 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:36.520 All, Shario actually don't have a problem with what Albaneze said. 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:37.800 It was a bit of a lame joke. But who 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:38.600 cares was a joke. 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:39.200 I don't care. 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:42.280 There's nothing really in it. But I think that's what 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:44.920 this shows is the Prime Minister seems to have more 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:47.960 glass in his jaw than a modern skyscraper building. It's 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:49.760 not the first time he's reacted like this. I mean 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:51.560 he could have just brushed this off. Instead he's gone 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:54.960 on the attack on some journalists, poor journalists doing their job. 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:57.720 We saw a few months ago that when the Prime 0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:01.120 Minister where the promise to try to support the crackdown 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:03.760 on so called misinformation X, a number of people made 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:07.000 means about him and put clown faces on his face, 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:09.320 and he was papoplectic about it, like you wanted a 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:11.679 sense of people from making fun of the Prime Minister. 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:14.080 I just think it needs to develop a bit of 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:17.240 a tougher skin here. He's the nation's leader. You're going 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:20.239 to be subject to criticisms sometimes, sometimes some semi brow 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:23.199 embarrassing stuff like this comes out. Just get on with 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:26.480 your job, mate, and stop trying to protect your own 0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:28.880 image so much in such a clumsy way. 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:32.000 Yeah, I'll watch what you say in public. Joe Kelly, 0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:36.120 what's your take on this? And also that suggestion from 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:40.720 Kurt Campbell that Australia asked the US to take a 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:43.480 backward step. I mean he didn't explain exactly what he 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:45.520 meant there, but to take a backward step so Australia 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:47.520 could have the limelight to make this announcement. 0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:52.280 Well, the first thing I think, Sherry, is that the 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:55.040 Prime Minister could have turned this, I think into a 0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:57.639 good news story if he had sort of more of 0:17:57.680 --> 0:17:59.840 a knack at being able to do that. I don't 0:17:59.840 --> 0:18:02.239 think think, as Matt said, there was anything wrong with 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:04.480 what the Prime Minister said. In fact, I think there 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:07.880 was some revealing insights into some positive things. That the 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:11.000 relationship between him and Kurt Campbell is obviously very good. 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:13.679 They've got a rapport, the US is very interested in 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:18.639 the Pacific and the Pacific Policing Initiative, and even the 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:22.080 involvement of Kevin Rudd. I think could have all had 0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:25.600 a positive Albanese could have put a positive spin on 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:29.720 all of that rather than take shots at the journalist 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:34.680 in question. In terms of the specific question about Kevin Rudd. 0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:38.320 I even think that perhaps Albanese could have said, well, 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:43.280 this shows that the US understands Australia's leadership role in 0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:47.560 the region, and that Australia has a leadership role to 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:52.360 play and they're giving us the leeway to do that. 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:56.439 I mean, we don't know exactly what Kurt Campbell was 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:59.200 referring to, but I think the Prime Minister could most 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:02.160 certainly have put a positive spin on the whole thing, 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:04.280 but instead it's become a negative news story. 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:08.160 Show Yeah. Indeed, now Peter Dutton has taken aim at 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:12.240 Jim Charmers, the Treasurer, over his comments saying that Dutton 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:15.280 is the most divisive leader of a major political party 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:18.919 in Australian history. He was Dutton with Ray Hadley earlier today. 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:22.280 What he's talking about is the Voice and we took 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:25.760 a position on the Voice to vote against it. And 0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:29.400 if I'm racist as a result of that or divisive 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:31.720 as a result of that, well he's accusing millions of 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:34.080 the strains of exactly the same crime. The Prime Minister 0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:37.080 promised a kind of gentler parliament and it's anything but 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:39.000 I mean, if you disagree with this government or you 0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:42.080 call out their failures all of a sudden, you're dangerous. 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:46.000 Matt. I spoke to Scott Morrison about this a couple 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:48.679 of days ago and he says that Labour used the 0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:52.359 same political attack on him that they're now using on Dutton, 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:55.280 playing the man rather than the ball. What do you think? 0:19:57.200 --> 0:20:01.960 I think Scott's exactly right. When these guys were in opposition, 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:05.800 they unleashed one of the most negative campaigns you've ever 0:20:05.800 --> 0:20:08.080 seen against the Prime Minister. I mean, he was pillory 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:11.119 for just taking a family holiday in Hawaii. They played 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:14.120 that relentlessly for years now. Look, I'm not complaining about that. 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:16.600 That's politics, that's life, and we had to live with 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:18.640 that and live with the results of that. But again 0:20:18.680 --> 0:20:21.240 it comes back to the glassdoor nature of this government. 0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:25.280 They just can't seem to handle any disagreement or criticism, 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:28.280 and I don't think that's a good sign for our country. 0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:30.720 You'd want a government to be a bit more resilient 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:33.080 about to cop the fact that sometimes people will disagree 0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:35.639 with you and to come out with absurd comparison take 0:20:35.680 --> 0:20:39.520 you the most deviceive ever. I mean, Jim Chalmers did 0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:42.399 his PhD on Paul Keating on economics. He did it 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:44.720 on Paul Keating. I I don't think he learnt much 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:48.840 because his barbs are nowhere near Paul Keating. He's not 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:51.000 the second coming of Paul Keating, and maybe he needs 0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:52.320 to work on his material a bit more. 0:20:53.320 --> 0:20:56.480 Joe. As frustrating as this would be for Peter Dart 0:20:56.880 --> 0:20:59.840 and the Coalition, it has proven to be an effective strategy, 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:05.480 isn't it painting? An individual as divisive or racist. I mean, 0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:08.440 it's nothing that we agree with or think is accurate. 0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:12.879 But for the Labor Party it's going to work for them. 0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:15.240 Well, I'm not convinced it will work. It has worked 0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:18.159 in the past, Charry, as we saw so effectively with 0:21:18.240 --> 0:21:22.360 the character assassination of Scott Morrison that was waged relentlessly 0:21:22.400 --> 0:21:25.960 by Anthony Albanesi. But you have to remember that was 0:21:26.119 --> 0:21:30.200 a campaign waged against a prime minister from an opposition leader. 0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:34.960 Labor is now in government and I don't know if 0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:38.160 it's as effective going the other way. And I thought 0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:42.480 it was unusual that Jim Charmers used the latter part 0:21:42.520 --> 0:21:48.439 of his curtain oration to launch this attack against Peter Dutton, 0:21:48.680 --> 0:21:52.320 this character attack, and I think there was an element 0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:56.480 of defensiveness from Jim Charmers during the week. I mean 0:21:56.680 --> 0:21:59.040 it was a significant week in terms of economic data. 0:21:59.080 --> 0:22:02.920 The inflation figures came out and he was still getting 0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:07.520 questions about his political attack on Peter Durrant. But Peter 0:22:07.640 --> 0:22:11.119 Dutton when he was responding to the inflation figures. So 0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:13.800 I'm not sure if that's I'm not sure if that 0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:15.720 is the best look. I'm not sure it will be 0:22:15.800 --> 0:22:20.040 as successful as the campaign that they launched against Scott Morrison. 0:22:20.200 --> 0:22:23.320 And I do think there is an element of hypocrisy 0:22:23.359 --> 0:22:26.159 over it, given that the government's under pressure over the 0:22:27.119 --> 0:22:30.119 visas given to people fleeing Gaza, and also what happened 0:22:30.160 --> 0:22:31.040 with the voice reference. 0:22:31.440 --> 0:22:34.480 Yeah, of course, and if anyone, as I've said, is 0:22:34.520 --> 0:22:37.600 dividing the country, it's alb and easy by bringing in 0:22:38.000 --> 0:22:42.680 potential HARMUS supporters that could just further erode the lack 0:22:42.720 --> 0:22:45.320 of social cohesion we're already seeing on our streets. Joe 0:22:45.400 --> 0:22:47.600 Kelly Matt Canavan. Great to have you both on the show. 0:22:49.160 --> 0:22:51.960 Now let's return to this controversy over the gold mine 0:22:52.200 --> 0:22:55.000 and the new Southeest. Premier Chris Mins has said that 0:22:55.080 --> 0:22:58.640 he's disappointed in Tinya Polverisk's decision to kill it off. 0:22:58.960 --> 0:23:01.440 He spoke about the issue today as I played Juice 0:23:01.480 --> 0:23:04.600 comments just before at the Daily Telegraph's Bush Summit in 0:23:04.720 --> 0:23:09.639 Orange and Joiny Minow is the Telegraph's editor, Ben English, Ben, 0:23:10.080 --> 0:23:12.920 thanks for joining us. Look, you splashed your front page 0:23:12.960 --> 0:23:16.879 on this story yesterday. My understanding is that Tanya Plibisek 0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:19.840 is a little bit annoyed at the scrutiny that you're 0:23:19.880 --> 0:23:23.280 putting on her. But the premiere has made it clear 0:23:23.359 --> 0:23:26.080 that all the approvals were met and that the main 0:23:26.320 --> 0:23:29.639 indigenous group in Orange has no objection. So what do 0:23:29.680 --> 0:23:33.520 you think about her decision to cancel this mine at 0:23:33.560 --> 0:23:34.560 the last minute. 0:23:35.680 --> 0:23:41.040 Well, I don't know if Tanya's is irritated by our coverage, 0:23:41.400 --> 0:23:43.760 but she should have come to Orange today to see 0:23:43.760 --> 0:23:48.000 how much she's more than irritated the overwhelming majority of 0:23:48.040 --> 0:23:52.040 people in the Central West who see this as a 0:23:52.200 --> 0:23:56.800 swipe from an any city minister that hasn't even shown 0:23:57.119 --> 0:23:59.840 the good manners and good grace to come and see 0:24:00.359 --> 0:24:04.000 the mind project or the site that she's made this 0:24:04.080 --> 0:24:08.120 decision about. There was genuine anger there today in Orange, 0:24:08.400 --> 0:24:10.840 and I don't think this is going away. 0:24:11.800 --> 0:24:15.200 This is also quite a fascinating political story as well, 0:24:15.240 --> 0:24:18.400 because it really is the first big dispute we've seen 0:24:18.440 --> 0:24:22.679 between the state labor government Chris Mins and the Abanesi government, 0:24:22.760 --> 0:24:23.119 isn't it? 0:24:24.280 --> 0:24:24.480 Yeah? 0:24:24.520 --> 0:24:29.080 It is, And in fact, this is a good one 0:24:29.160 --> 0:24:33.199 for Chris Mens to choose to choose that battle. There 0:24:33.280 --> 0:24:36.040 usually comes a time with premieres, even when they're on 0:24:36.080 --> 0:24:38.879 the same side and the same color where they have 0:24:39.040 --> 0:24:43.119 to choose to represent their own constituents. And this is 0:24:43.119 --> 0:24:45.960 a good one for Chris Mens, and it's actually aligned 0:24:45.960 --> 0:24:50.400 with his own values anyway, he is very genuinely concerned 0:24:50.400 --> 0:24:53.800 about this decision and the signals it sends to the 0:24:53.840 --> 0:24:58.919 investment world. There is a very strong view, or at 0:24:59.000 --> 0:25:03.600 least a growing view amongst the resources sector that New 0:25:03.640 --> 0:25:06.280 South Wales is actually a sovereign risk. It's actually not 0:25:06.359 --> 0:25:11.040 a safe place to invest because, as has happened with Regis, 0:25:11.880 --> 0:25:15.680 the company that's behind this project, you can invest five, six, 0:25:15.800 --> 0:25:20.320 seven years and countless millions of dollars in the planning 0:25:20.359 --> 0:25:25.200 process only to be basically king hit at the last moment. 0:25:25.480 --> 0:25:28.040 Exactly exactly right. That is why this is such a 0:25:28.160 --> 0:25:31.000 wirrying story for all of Australia, not just in New 0:25:31.040 --> 0:25:34.480 South Wales. But I think that your point. I think 0:25:34.480 --> 0:25:38.880 this also shows the difference between the centrist Men's government 0:25:39.240 --> 0:25:41.720 and what we're seeing, which is quite a radical left 0:25:41.800 --> 0:25:44.880 Albanezy government. I mean, the Men's government really is the 0:25:44.880 --> 0:25:47.440 model of what a labor government should be, and his 0:25:48.080 --> 0:25:52.080 instincts a mainstream on so many issues, including this one. 0:25:52.400 --> 0:25:54.359 But Ben, your sum it made quite a lot of 0:25:54.400 --> 0:25:57.080 News Today. There was also a blue between Barnaby Joyce 0:25:57.119 --> 0:25:59.680 and Matt Kean over renewable energy. Let's have a quick 0:25:59.720 --> 0:26:01.640 look at the. 0:26:01.720 --> 0:26:05.960 Cheapest way of delivering reliable energy is firm for renewr books. 0:26:06.080 --> 0:26:07.399 What's this the Wizard of Oz. 0:26:08.400 --> 0:26:11.959 Honestly, I'll tell you where the truth lies, ladies and gentlemen. 0:26:12.000 --> 0:26:14.040 When you get that little thing in the mail. 0:26:13.880 --> 0:26:17.200 With a box in it called the power bill, there 0:26:17.240 --> 0:26:19.720 lies the truth. Power bills are going up for two 0:26:19.800 --> 0:26:23.760 very clear reasons. One, there's a war in the Ukraine 0:26:23.800 --> 0:26:26.919 that has pushed the wholesale price that does push the 0:26:26.960 --> 0:26:28.600 wholesale price of coal up. 0:26:28.800 --> 0:26:30.560 We just have the cheapest power in the world and 0:26:30.600 --> 0:26:32.240 now we've got some of the dearest power. 0:26:32.080 --> 0:26:32.400 In the world. 0:26:34.000 --> 0:26:36.359 The war in Ukraine. It's to blame for all of 0:26:36.359 --> 0:26:38.160 our bills and the rising cost of living. 0:26:38.200 --> 0:26:42.800 Ben Yeah, it was fantastic. And look, it has to 0:26:42.800 --> 0:26:46.200 be said. Barniey was playing to her home crowd there 0:26:46.320 --> 0:26:52.320 and they were mightily unimpressed with Matt Kean's his argument 0:26:52.359 --> 0:26:57.359 they're trying to blame external forces. I would say, I 0:26:57.359 --> 0:27:00.240 think you would have experienced this too, Shari. The people 0:27:00.240 --> 0:27:05.000 in the bush extremely well well versed in the issues 0:27:05.200 --> 0:27:08.120 at play. They have to be, and they're even more 0:27:08.160 --> 0:27:11.080 well versed now they've got better access to Sky News, 0:27:11.560 --> 0:27:13.800 and they just weren't having They weren't having that for 0:27:13.880 --> 0:27:17.760 a moment, and in fact, I thought Barnaby was probably 0:27:17.760 --> 0:27:19.680 in the best form he's been in some time. 0:27:20.160 --> 0:27:20.880 He did get. 0:27:20.680 --> 0:27:24.080 Fired up, and our John Rolf had to sort of 0:27:24.359 --> 0:27:27.520 come in and separate the two men at different stages 0:27:27.560 --> 0:27:30.040 when it started to get too bare knuckle. But Barnaby 0:27:30.119 --> 0:27:33.960 landed some very telling blows because he was actually going 0:27:33.960 --> 0:27:36.280 to the nub of this, which is that there is 0:27:36.600 --> 0:27:39.760 a very very clear reason why bills are going up, 0:27:39.760 --> 0:27:42.360 and that's because of the enormous cost of the out 0:27:42.560 --> 0:27:45.919 of the pouring out of the transmission lines, and the 0:27:45.920 --> 0:27:53.000 broader capital cost of renewable infrastructure, and also the demise 0:27:53.080 --> 0:27:57.800 of fossil fuel, you know, based low powers a supply. 0:27:58.480 --> 0:28:05.159 So you know, I I think Barnaby basically took him apart, took. 0:28:05.080 --> 0:28:07.159 Him apart well. Matt Keane, of course, has now been 0:28:07.160 --> 0:28:11.680 appointed by Anthony Alberanezi to be the Climate Change Authority Chair. 0:28:11.920 --> 0:28:14.159 I mean that appointment happened while he was still in 0:28:14.160 --> 0:28:17.560 the New South Wales Parliament hadn't officially resigned yet, but 0:28:17.920 --> 0:28:21.360 you know, given what you heard about his position today, 0:28:22.480 --> 0:28:25.160 you know, where do you expect this renewable energy push 0:28:25.400 --> 0:28:28.680 to go given he does now have this federal role. 0:28:29.880 --> 0:28:33.119 Oh look, you know he's he's serving his paymasters and 0:28:33.160 --> 0:28:36.639 he's going to plow on with the you know, the 0:28:37.200 --> 0:28:45.560 relentless rolling out of these intermittent assets if you want 0:28:45.600 --> 0:28:49.560 to call them that. And you know there's there's a 0:28:49.680 --> 0:28:54.080 number of projects, enormous number of projects that are that 0:28:54.160 --> 0:28:58.440 are stacking up and with the benefit of a government 0:28:58.480 --> 0:29:01.760 subject of government subst and I must say not many 0:29:01.800 --> 0:29:05.320 of them are subjected to Section ten objections from any 0:29:05.400 --> 0:29:09.840 environment ministers. So I think as long as this government 0:29:10.280 --> 0:29:14.000 is in the federal government, then we're going to see 0:29:15.080 --> 0:29:15.800 basically an. 0:29:15.680 --> 0:29:18.280 Acceleration of the rollout of renewables. 0:29:18.760 --> 0:29:21.240 Where they will be munked by reality is when we 0:29:21.320 --> 0:29:24.400 start to see blackouts some particularly hot days in summer 0:29:26.520 --> 0:29:30.400 and when they fail to curve the increasing power bills. 0:29:30.560 --> 0:29:33.920 Yeah. Absolutely, and if that happens this summer, that's going 0:29:33.960 --> 0:29:36.160 to be a big political problem for the Prime minister 0:29:36.240 --> 0:29:38.240 ahead of an election which we're expecting in the first 0:29:38.360 --> 0:29:40.840 quarter of next year. But English are big congrats on 0:29:40.880 --> 0:29:44.600 your Bush summit and highlighting issues that affect regional and 0:29:44.680 --> 0:29:48.360 rule Australians. Thank you for joining us. Now, before we 0:29:48.360 --> 0:29:49.880 go to the break, I want to mention that I've 0:29:49.880 --> 0:29:54.360 got two amazing guests on Monday night's program. Here's a 0:29:54.400 --> 0:29:58.440 sneak peak of one exclusive interview. This is a very 0:29:58.680 --> 0:30:02.360 volatile period. The biggest political issue in our parliament. 0:30:02.160 --> 0:30:06.160 Australia runder threat Britain's former spy chief and he's great 0:30:06.240 --> 0:30:07.240 warning over her. 0:30:07.120 --> 0:30:11.760 Mass Australia isn't going to be immune from this terrorist probata. 0:30:11.560 --> 0:30:14.800 For sky News exclusive Where do you think this is headed? 0:30:15.160 --> 0:30:18.200 Extremely careful in allowing these people in. 0:30:18.760 --> 0:30:21.280 If you can't trace and you can't. 0:30:21.160 --> 0:30:23.280 Vet, there will be lowe wolves. 0:30:23.600 --> 0:30:26.479 Watch Harry eight pm Monday on Sky News. 0:30:27.480 --> 0:30:30.080 So that is the former head of mi I six, 0:30:30.120 --> 0:30:32.200 Sir Richard dear Love, and he weighs in in a 0:30:32.240 --> 0:30:36.240 big way on the Gazan visa issue. That big interviews 0:30:36.280 --> 0:30:38.960 on Monday night. Also on the same night, I've got 0:30:39.000 --> 0:30:42.720 the farmer Israeli government spokesman Alon Levy will be joining me. 0:30:43.800 --> 0:30:46.400 Terrific guest. You don't want to miss that at all 0:30:46.440 --> 0:30:49.360 Monday Night's show. But still to come this evening, we're 0:30:49.400 --> 0:30:52.480 live to Ukraine where the Coalition is pledging to reopen 0:30:52.560 --> 0:30:56.880 the Australian Embassy in Kiev. Pennywog just won't do this. 0:30:57.040 --> 0:31:00.960 But Simon Birmingham will join me next. Plus another display 0:31:01.000 --> 0:31:04.160 of weak leadership by the University of Sydney that's coming 0:31:04.240 --> 0:31:11.080 up after this quick break. Welcome back now. Simon Birmingham 0:31:11.200 --> 0:31:13.640 will be joining me out of Ukraine in just a 0:31:13.680 --> 0:31:17.280 moment to talk about why Pennywong refuses to open up 0:31:17.320 --> 0:31:21.280 the Australian embassy and his commitment Peter Dutton's commitment to 0:31:21.360 --> 0:31:24.760 do so if they win the election. But now let's 0:31:24.960 --> 0:31:30.000 return to October seven. Now, the Israeli Army. It's little known, 0:31:30.080 --> 0:31:33.040 but they have their own unit when a Jewish soldier 0:31:33.120 --> 0:31:38.200 dies in battle. These are highly qualified professionals, and yet 0:31:38.280 --> 0:31:40.880 no amount of experience could have prepared them for what 0:31:40.960 --> 0:31:44.600 they witnessed on October seven. The men and women in 0:31:44.640 --> 0:31:49.600 this unit had to endure the harrowing task of identifying 0:31:49.960 --> 0:31:54.959 and purifying the bodies of those murdered by Hamas. Now 0:31:55.000 --> 0:31:57.000 to speak to me about this, some more. I'm joined 0:31:57.040 --> 0:31:59.840 by Noah Lewis, who is the female head of the 0:32:00.040 --> 0:32:04.080 if Ritual Burial Society. Noah, thank you so much for 0:32:04.200 --> 0:32:06.920 joining us. And you're of course in Australia at the 0:32:06.920 --> 0:32:10.680 moment from Israel. Now it's such a hard thing for 0:32:10.760 --> 0:32:13.680 you to talk about and to relive, but can you 0:32:13.760 --> 0:32:17.920 tell us a bit about the extent of Hermasa's brutality 0:32:18.680 --> 0:32:23.440 from what you saw in the aftermath of October seventh? Okay, 0:32:23.720 --> 0:32:24.080 thank you. 0:32:26.360 --> 0:32:29.560 When I arrived to the base on October seventh, I've 0:32:29.600 --> 0:32:32.400 never seen anything even close with that in my life. 0:32:32.440 --> 0:32:35.280 There were trucks of trucks of bodies coming from all over, 0:32:36.720 --> 0:32:43.080 you know, civilians and babies, old people, people mutated, imutated, 0:32:47.160 --> 0:32:51.720 a lot of blood parts of bodies. We saw ashes, 0:32:51.840 --> 0:32:57.960 we saw burnt bodies, soldiers, young kids. We also got 0:32:57.960 --> 0:33:04.480 the just from everything different, different, different situation of bodies 0:33:04.480 --> 0:33:07.200 that I've never seen in my life. Not the state 0:33:07.280 --> 0:33:11.400 of the situation and not the not the amounts I've seen. 0:33:12.400 --> 0:33:15.680 I've seen. Uh, you know, girls that it looked like 0:33:15.720 --> 0:33:18.000 they've been killed so many times again and again. You know, 0:33:18.040 --> 0:33:23.080 they've been shot at and again and and different. 0:33:24.080 --> 0:33:24.320 Yeah. 0:33:24.440 --> 0:33:27.440 Also like you know, shooting in the face and in 0:33:28.200 --> 0:33:32.200 very painful, very painful to watch it. But it wasn't 0:33:32.240 --> 0:33:36.000 just a bullet or just a simple day you know cut. 0:33:36.200 --> 0:33:38.280 You know, you could see parts of the bodies in 0:33:38.360 --> 0:33:44.280 separate bags and uh and amounts, so many and different ages. 0:33:44.440 --> 0:33:44.840 It was. 0:33:45.600 --> 0:33:46.560 It was very painful. 0:33:46.680 --> 0:33:51.680 There must have been particularly heartbreaking confronting having to see 0:33:51.720 --> 0:33:54.760 what these terrorists had done to children and babies. 0:33:56.800 --> 0:34:01.360 Yeah, I think there were There was a secretion, the 0:34:01.480 --> 0:34:03.800 secretion of the body, and I felt for me it 0:34:03.840 --> 0:34:06.720 was like a desecreting of human being. This is not 0:34:06.840 --> 0:34:09.759 the way that human being behaving. It was hurting me 0:34:09.960 --> 0:34:13.200 as a as a person of the world to seek 0:34:13.840 --> 0:34:18.439 such a brutality, such a pure evil, pure evil, that's 0:34:18.440 --> 0:34:23.080 what you can say. It's the bad, the stuff, the 0:34:23.120 --> 0:34:25.560 pure evil that we saw. It's something that you can't contain, 0:34:25.719 --> 0:34:29.080 you don't understand, you can't even that I saw it, 0:34:29.160 --> 0:34:30.879 and I was part of the job. 0:34:30.920 --> 0:34:32.000 I wasn't just watching it. 0:34:32.040 --> 0:34:34.080 I had to cover I had to take pieces to 0:34:34.120 --> 0:34:37.959 try to identify we were, you know, doing our team 0:34:38.000 --> 0:34:43.040 different parts of it. But understanding that it's something that 0:34:43.080 --> 0:34:45.760 we don't understand and we just come to do exactly 0:34:45.760 --> 0:34:46.720 the opposite. 0:34:47.280 --> 0:34:52.239 Look. People have tried to downplay the extent of her 0:34:52.320 --> 0:34:56.200 Massa's horrors that they inflicted, that some people turn her 0:34:56.239 --> 0:35:01.200 mass into freedom fighters, but in fact, the priorities from 0:35:01.600 --> 0:35:05.520 October seven and since show us that Harmasa on power 0:35:05.560 --> 0:35:09.080 are worse than Isis on power, or worse than the Nazis. 0:35:09.480 --> 0:35:10.040 I agree. 0:35:10.200 --> 0:35:13.200 I'm a descendant of my grandmother was in Ashwitz, and 0:35:13.280 --> 0:35:17.080 I've seen ashes in Ashwitz where my grandmother was, and 0:35:17.160 --> 0:35:19.000 I had to put ashes in a coffin. 0:35:19.840 --> 0:35:22.600 It's it feels like. 0:35:22.600 --> 0:35:24.799 You know, the world is going you know, we're in 0:35:24.840 --> 0:35:28.400 the Western world, We're going forward, Christian, Muslims, Jewish people, 0:35:28.480 --> 0:35:32.040 the world is going ahead, and the Hamas and Chrisbala, 0:35:32.200 --> 0:35:34.080 they just you know, trying to pull us back. 0:35:35.040 --> 0:35:37.200 It's it's a. 0:35:37.400 --> 0:35:40.480 You know, facing it make me make me proud, make 0:35:40.520 --> 0:35:43.560 me make me proud to be Jewish, make me proud 0:35:43.600 --> 0:35:46.160 to say I'm edding good to the world. I'm trying 0:35:46.200 --> 0:35:49.200 to be good. I'm trying to fight the bed I'm taking. 0:35:50.480 --> 0:35:51.920 I want to say to everyone, you know. 0:35:52.000 --> 0:35:52.879 Take the right part. 0:35:53.719 --> 0:35:56.400 There's things that I even can talk about what I've seen, 0:35:56.880 --> 0:36:00.960 but listen to the truth, listen to the the good. 0:36:00.880 --> 0:36:03.000 And think which part do you want to take? 0:36:03.080 --> 0:36:04.080 Who do you want to join? 0:36:05.400 --> 0:36:07.359 And that's why you're in Australia at the moment. I mean, 0:36:07.800 --> 0:36:11.319 I can't even imagine how that would have affected you emotionally, 0:36:11.840 --> 0:36:14.120 seeing what you waitness from October seven. 0:36:15.440 --> 0:36:19.440 It is affecting, but it's mostly I'm looking ahead people 0:36:19.680 --> 0:36:22.799 many people, many people lost their lives and family are 0:36:22.920 --> 0:36:26.960 obviously devastated, and we are looking forward for the world, 0:36:27.440 --> 0:36:30.759 for the Jewish people, for all the people, just to 0:36:30.840 --> 0:36:32.759 continue with the good. And this is why I'm here. 0:36:33.040 --> 0:36:35.399 People say I'm too scared to leave your country. I'm 0:36:35.400 --> 0:36:37.680 not scared of from us. I'm not scared of Ribata. 0:36:38.440 --> 0:36:40.239 I just want to say to the world they're not. 0:36:40.680 --> 0:36:43.279 We shouldn't be scared of them. We should just don't 0:36:43.360 --> 0:36:47.160 let them continue and stop them and let people fight 0:36:47.280 --> 0:36:48.319 against them. 0:36:48.400 --> 0:36:51.839 All right, Noel Lewis, I can't even say thank you 0:36:51.920 --> 0:36:54.680 very much for being here about I find your courage 0:36:55.040 --> 0:36:57.960 extraordinary and I can't imagine doing the job that you 0:36:58.040 --> 0:37:00.920 do on a daily basis, even you know, apart from 0:37:00.920 --> 0:37:04.160 October seven. So thank you so much, thank you, Thank 0:37:04.239 --> 0:37:09.799 you Now the Coalition has vowed to safely reopen Australia's 0:37:09.800 --> 0:37:13.080 embassy in Ukraine if they win the next election, saying 0:37:13.080 --> 0:37:16.480 that Labour's stubborn refusal to do so has undermined our 0:37:16.520 --> 0:37:21.840 reputation as a reliable international ally. Shortly after Russia invaded 0:37:21.920 --> 0:37:24.839 Ukraine in February twenty twenty two, the Morrison government at 0:37:24.840 --> 0:37:29.440 the time ordered staff to evacuate Kiev. Since then, around 0:37:29.560 --> 0:37:33.719 seventy other countries have reopened their embassies in Ukraine. Well, 0:37:33.760 --> 0:37:35.920 for more on this, let's bring in Shadow Foreign Affairs 0:37:35.920 --> 0:37:39.960 Minister Simon Birmingham, who is right now in Ukraine. Simon, 0:37:40.080 --> 0:37:43.640 great to see you with us. So tell us why 0:37:43.680 --> 0:37:46.680 do you think, well, why is Penny one refusing to 0:37:46.680 --> 0:37:47.759 reopen the embassy? 0:37:49.320 --> 0:37:50.719 Hello, Shaari, It's good to be with you. 0:37:50.760 --> 0:37:53.560 Look, it is totally baffling as to the stubbornness of 0:37:53.600 --> 0:37:56.960 the Albanese government in terms of taking this step. As 0:37:56.960 --> 0:37:59.960 you said in the introduction, around seventy countries from Ireland 0:38:00.080 --> 0:38:04.279 to Indonesia have reopened their embassies in Kiev. They've done 0:38:04.360 --> 0:38:08.000 so safely, cautiously, appropriately. It's a city that I've been 0:38:08.040 --> 0:38:10.719 in the last couple of nights and of course it's 0:38:10.719 --> 0:38:14.919 a city that has built strong safeguards, warning systems, air 0:38:14.920 --> 0:38:18.759 defense systems and created an environment where a range of 0:38:18.840 --> 0:38:22.799 different embassies are able to operate, and by operating they're 0:38:22.840 --> 0:38:24.120 able to get the. 0:38:24.000 --> 0:38:29.120 Best possible information and intelligence and access to the Ukrainian 0:38:29.160 --> 0:38:32.359 government when and where they need it, which Australia is 0:38:32.520 --> 0:38:34.839 not able to get a present by virtue of our 0:38:34.920 --> 0:38:38.240 ambassador being forced to be hundreds of kilometers away in Poland. 0:38:39.680 --> 0:38:43.919 Look, there are accusations that Australia has let down Zelanski 0:38:44.000 --> 0:38:46.600 and Ukraine in other matters as well. Do you think 0:38:46.640 --> 0:38:51.000 we could be doing more in terms of supplying weapons 0:38:51.120 --> 0:38:55.160 or funding aid to Ukraine s. 0:38:55.400 --> 0:38:57.920 The first thing is that we give one hundred percent 0:38:58.000 --> 0:39:02.360 bipartisan support for everything ASTRA has done. When the Morrison 0:39:02.400 --> 0:39:06.160 government was in power and the Russian invasion of Ukraine commenced, 0:39:06.280 --> 0:39:08.800 we made sure Australia was at the forefront of support. 0:39:08.840 --> 0:39:12.960 We were, in fact the largest non NATO country supporting Ukraine, 0:39:13.160 --> 0:39:19.160 giving assistance in terms of financial assistance, military assistance, humanitarian assistance, 0:39:19.640 --> 0:39:23.760 energy assistance, comprehensive support for the country. 0:39:23.560 --> 0:39:26.200 And the Albanesi government that has slipped. We are now 0:39:26.520 --> 0:39:29.200 no longer the largest non NATO contributor. 0:39:29.239 --> 0:39:33.200 Countries like Japan and South Korea have overtaken us, and 0:39:33.239 --> 0:39:34.560 we do think that there is more. 0:39:34.440 --> 0:39:35.280 That could be done. 0:39:35.400 --> 0:39:39.960 We shouldn't be retiring army helicopters to be junked and 0:39:40.040 --> 0:39:43.520 buried in Australia. We should be sending them or at 0:39:43.600 --> 0:39:47.600 least the parts to support Ukraine. We should be answering 0:39:47.680 --> 0:39:51.120 quickly when Ukraine asked for Australian coal and ensuring those 0:39:51.120 --> 0:39:55.319 shipments go, not fapping around for months and months, and 0:39:55.360 --> 0:39:58.719 then eventually putting money into an international fund. These are 0:39:58.800 --> 0:40:01.960 not the type of science of urgency and commitment that 0:40:02.040 --> 0:40:04.279 you would and should expect Australia to show. 0:40:05.440 --> 0:40:08.400 Yeah, I think it's a case similar to Israel, where 0:40:08.440 --> 0:40:12.080 the Albanezi government has let down a nation that should 0:40:12.200 --> 0:40:15.839 clearly be our ally or Simon Birmingham, stay safe over 0:40:15.880 --> 0:40:19.919 there and thanks for joining us in the program. Now 0:40:20.000 --> 0:40:22.560 plenty more to come after the break. Radio host Kyle 0:40:22.640 --> 0:40:27.440 Sanderlands has wrongly unleashed on people he's calling Looney's who 0:40:27.440 --> 0:40:31.040 are trying to cancel Candace Owens's visa. I'll play you 0:40:31.080 --> 0:40:34.600 that audio next. Plus we're in an economic horror show 0:40:34.600 --> 0:40:38.120 as retailers are given a grim warning ahead of Christmas. 0:40:38.200 --> 0:40:44.600 I'll speak about this with my panel Welcome Back. Well, 0:40:44.640 --> 0:40:47.279 there's been a bit of a debate about whether far 0:40:47.440 --> 0:40:51.000 right commentator Candace Owens should be given a visa to 0:40:51.040 --> 0:40:53.440 come to Australia. And I'm not going to replay the 0:40:53.480 --> 0:40:56.200 worst of her comments because they do not deserve to 0:40:56.239 --> 0:40:59.920 be broadcast further. But they're so bad that Peter dar 0:41:00.080 --> 0:41:02.799 and the Coalition and Jewish groups have called for her 0:41:03.080 --> 0:41:07.200 not to be issued a visa. But according to Kyle Sandalans, 0:41:07.200 --> 0:41:10.080 who spoke to Owen's this morning on his radio show, 0:41:10.440 --> 0:41:12.720 her ideas should be hurt. Have a listen. 0:41:13.800 --> 0:41:15.799 I read an article people were trying to stop you 0:41:15.840 --> 0:41:19.279 from coming. Why do people try and stop hearing other 0:41:19.320 --> 0:41:21.960 people's ideas? Why is that as the. 0:41:22.000 --> 0:41:24.040 Question that I have to ask you because it was 0:41:24.120 --> 0:41:27.080 so When I saw that, and I saw. 0:41:26.920 --> 0:41:29.520 That, someone spoke out and said that it's so foreign. 0:41:29.920 --> 0:41:33.520 We're very laid back here, we're very sort of passive people, 0:41:34.040 --> 0:41:36.040 and there's a couple of loons that are running around 0:41:36.080 --> 0:41:38.680 t and I think if you're trying to stop hearing 0:41:38.719 --> 0:41:41.960 someone's idea, you're scared that other people will like that 0:41:42.080 --> 0:41:44.040 person's idea. 0:41:44.239 --> 0:41:48.920 Perhaps Kyle Sandalans hasn't heard the extent of Candae Owen 0:41:48.960 --> 0:41:53.440 because it's her who is looney, not the people opposing her. Arriving, 0:41:53.680 --> 0:41:57.080 we're to discuss Let's bringing commentator Jason Morrison and freyer 0:41:57.120 --> 0:42:00.720 Leitch from the Menzies Research Center. Welcome to you both, Prayer. 0:42:00.880 --> 0:42:03.920 I think there is a difference between hate speech and 0:42:04.000 --> 0:42:10.040 free speech, and countss Owens is engaging completely in conspiracy 0:42:10.080 --> 0:42:11.040 theories and hate speech. 0:42:11.680 --> 0:42:14.239 Look, this is a challenging one because I think if 0:42:14.280 --> 0:42:17.279 we're going to protect free speech for us, we have 0:42:17.360 --> 0:42:20.160 to uphold it for all. So it is hard and 0:42:20.440 --> 0:42:22.840 it's hard to find that line between what is free 0:42:22.840 --> 0:42:26.760 speech and what crosses over into hate speech. I actually 0:42:26.760 --> 0:42:29.840 think we should issue Candis a visa, but with a condition. 0:42:30.280 --> 0:42:32.280 She has to go on a tour of the Sydney 0:42:32.320 --> 0:42:37.080 Jewish Museum guided by Holocaust survivors and see the extent 0:42:37.120 --> 0:42:40.920 of the Holocaust, which she denies and she downplays. And 0:42:40.960 --> 0:42:44.160 then as an Israeli woman in Sydney who has VR 0:42:44.280 --> 0:42:47.839 goggles that depict October seven, then she has to put 0:42:47.840 --> 0:42:50.360 the VR goggles on. She has to watch forty seven 0:42:50.400 --> 0:42:55.600 minutes of her Maasa's barbarous atrocities of October seven, and 0:42:55.680 --> 0:42:58.320 then she should come on this show, on your show, Shari, 0:42:58.560 --> 0:43:01.000 and she should have a debate with you and whoever 0:43:01.080 --> 0:43:03.800 you want to bring on about what happened on October seven, 0:43:03.920 --> 0:43:06.919 about the Israel Gaza issue. That's what we have to do. 0:43:07.120 --> 0:43:11.440 We have to stop letting these anti Semitic ideas fester 0:43:11.719 --> 0:43:14.279 in dark corners of the Internet. We have to bring 0:43:14.320 --> 0:43:16.359 them into the light and we have to combat them 0:43:16.360 --> 0:43:17.360 with the sort of truth. 0:43:17.600 --> 0:43:19.200 What do you think, Jason, I'm with you. 0:43:19.400 --> 0:43:22.040 I'm with you totally. I actually don't I'm not a banner, 0:43:22.160 --> 0:43:25.160 not a banner of anyone, and so irony that we're 0:43:25.160 --> 0:43:28.440 talking about banning people. We're bringing planloads of people in 0:43:28.480 --> 0:43:31.640 on tourism visus at the moment who actually hate Jews 0:43:31.640 --> 0:43:34.040 as well. So I think, you know, we've got to 0:43:34.080 --> 0:43:34.440 get a. 0:43:34.440 --> 0:43:35.080 Bit real here. 0:43:35.160 --> 0:43:38.240 This is a distraction from the real issue in Australia 0:43:38.320 --> 0:43:40.759 right now, and that is the people we are importing 0:43:40.840 --> 0:43:43.719 into the country to stay here with obnoxious and a 0:43:43.800 --> 0:43:47.120 borrn views. I think I have no problem with this. 0:43:47.400 --> 0:43:50.560 I actually think she's a classic. She thinks she knows 0:43:50.560 --> 0:43:53.040 more than she does. I think she's full of crap. 0:43:53.120 --> 0:43:53.920 A lot of the time. 0:43:54.640 --> 0:43:58.040 She's captivating speaker, and I don't think if she's any good, 0:43:58.880 --> 0:44:01.040 you'd knock a hole through all with logic and mostly 0:44:01.040 --> 0:44:03.560 the people on this station, most people on talk radio, 0:44:03.600 --> 0:44:05.319 if they put their minds to wed knock a hole 0:44:05.400 --> 0:44:08.760 through because she's not that good when put under the pump. 0:44:09.160 --> 0:44:11.000 But I think the problem is, though, if she was 0:44:11.080 --> 0:44:13.239 just coming here for a holiday, well it might be 0:44:13.280 --> 0:44:15.520 a different story. But she's coming here to speak to it. Hey, 0:44:15.560 --> 0:44:17.640 the holiday people are coming here to live. Well I know, 0:44:17.800 --> 0:44:20.120 I know, don't get me started. But she's coming here 0:44:20.200 --> 0:44:23.120 to speak to huge crowds of people. Are these are 0:44:23.360 --> 0:44:26.239 events that she's performing at, and so her ideas are 0:44:26.400 --> 0:44:29.839 dangerous and people do listen to them, and it's and 0:44:29.880 --> 0:44:32.920 she's got millions of followers, and it's problematic. 0:44:33.480 --> 0:44:35.279 Can I tell you, though, if you go digging into 0:44:35.320 --> 0:44:37.800 who's bringing her out, I think you'll find that's the 0:44:37.840 --> 0:44:39.560 same kind of group that's been bringing out a lot 0:44:39.560 --> 0:44:41.000 of people that have never arrived here. 0:44:41.280 --> 0:44:42.759 Right. Well, I'm going to have a look at that 0:44:42.840 --> 0:44:45.879 over the weekends. Will follow that on Monday Nights show 0:44:46.280 --> 0:44:49.279 now very quickly. Australia's retail sector has been in a 0:44:49.320 --> 0:44:52.759 recession for eighteen months now and consumers have cut back 0:44:52.800 --> 0:44:56.680 on shopping in this cost of living crisis. Freya, this 0:44:56.960 --> 0:45:00.560 is worrying again. We nowhere in a per capit recession 0:45:00.680 --> 0:45:01.200 as it is. 0:45:01.640 --> 0:45:05.879 I know it's terrible. I mean, real disposable income per 0:45:05.960 --> 0:45:10.480 capita has fallen almost eight percent since the election in 0:45:10.800 --> 0:45:13.680 just two years. I'm certainly feeling the pinch. I think 0:45:13.680 --> 0:45:16.920 it's even worse for young people who are renters or 0:45:16.960 --> 0:45:19.799 maybe first home buyers. It is challenging out there and 0:45:19.840 --> 0:45:23.320 this is the result of Albo's radical left wing agenda, 0:45:23.640 --> 0:45:27.560 cracking down on industrial relations, soaring power prices, interest rates 0:45:27.560 --> 0:45:29.440 are going crazy. This is the result. 0:45:29.520 --> 0:45:33.560 People feel poorer, Jason. This is still the biggest issue 0:45:33.600 --> 0:45:34.600 ahead of the next election. 0:45:34.920 --> 0:45:36.280 Yeah, people are poorer. 0:45:36.560 --> 0:45:39.040 They're much poorer because life stood still for most people, 0:45:39.320 --> 0:45:41.320 other than people in the public service that kind of 0:45:41.360 --> 0:45:44.239 in the ABC to get the automatic pay rises. In 0:45:44.280 --> 0:45:46.600 the real world, people stand still. In small business people 0:45:46.600 --> 0:45:48.919 are going backwards right now. And look at the number 0:45:48.920 --> 0:45:51.040 of shops that are empty, Look at the number of 0:45:51.040 --> 0:45:54.800 businesses that are just not without customers, the shopfronts that 0:45:55.400 --> 0:45:58.200 have got follice signs up. There's a tragedy going on 0:45:58.239 --> 0:46:01.680 in Australia at the moment, and I'll say tragically that 0:46:01.840 --> 0:46:04.840 tragedy is being caused by government things like pushing up 0:46:04.880 --> 0:46:07.719 power prices. They're looking for ways to kill us on 0:46:07.760 --> 0:46:10.960 the run here. And you know the last inflation figures 0:46:10.960 --> 0:46:13.800 that came through. When you go through a category category, 0:46:13.800 --> 0:46:16.120 you say, energy is such a big contributor all these 0:46:16.160 --> 0:46:19.000 things going up, and that's a big reason our life 0:46:19.080 --> 0:46:20.839 is at the moment very much under test. 0:46:21.120 --> 0:46:23.719 Yeah, it's a huge issue. A right. Jason Morris and Freileach. 0:46:23.800 --> 0:46:27.560 Great to see you both, go anywhere more questions tonight 0:46:27.600 --> 0:46:30.680 about our country is looming energy crisis. That's after the 0:46:30.719 --> 0:46:37.440 break welcome back. Well at first glance, it seems like 0:46:37.520 --> 0:46:42.120 Australia's Energy regulator has painted a more positive outlook for 0:46:42.520 --> 0:46:47.160 the latest energy crisis. It's latest reliability outlook improving compared 0:46:47.160 --> 0:46:50.440 with last year. To discuss that's bringing out The Australian's 0:46:50.520 --> 0:46:54.600 Environment editor Graham, Lloyd Graham, Great to see you again. Look, 0:46:54.680 --> 0:46:59.360 what is the risk of blackouts across the country this 0:46:59.440 --> 0:47:01.040 summer and moving forward. 0:47:02.880 --> 0:47:06.560 Well, good evening, Chari. The risk of blackouts this summer 0:47:06.760 --> 0:47:12.520 is really apparent in New South Wales, Victoria and South Australia. 0:47:13.080 --> 0:47:16.560 And while the Energy Regulator is saying, look, the situation 0:47:16.760 --> 0:47:20.920 has improved a little bit, that's really sort of faint 0:47:21.040 --> 0:47:26.480 praise or comfort because it's really on a knife's edge still. 0:47:26.960 --> 0:47:30.000 What the regulator has really said is that over the 0:47:30.120 --> 0:47:33.759 ten year horizon, if everything goes to plan, all the 0:47:33.840 --> 0:47:39.080 government's ambitions are met on time, then we should be 0:47:39.160 --> 0:47:42.279 able to carry through. But of course the problem is 0:47:42.320 --> 0:47:46.480 that the government programs are never really met on time, 0:47:46.719 --> 0:47:52.480 so the potential for the need for other sources of 0:47:52.600 --> 0:47:57.719 energy to hold things together is still really great. For 0:47:57.960 --> 0:48:01.200 what it means for people in the community more generally 0:48:01.280 --> 0:48:05.040 is that the government is going to be very determined 0:48:05.200 --> 0:48:09.400 to push through its programs. So the hostility we're seeing, 0:48:09.680 --> 0:48:12.839 particularly in rural communities to the roll out of transmission 0:48:12.840 --> 0:48:16.160 lines and things. As things get tighter, they're going to 0:48:16.200 --> 0:48:17.799 be given less and less consideration. 0:48:18.840 --> 0:48:21.560 Graham, I also wanted to get your take as Environment 0:48:21.760 --> 0:48:25.800 editor on the conflict this debate over the gold mine 0:48:25.920 --> 0:48:28.480 in New South Wales, as far as you can see, 0:48:28.520 --> 0:48:31.600 are there any reasons for it not to go ahead. 0:48:33.920 --> 0:48:37.080 Well, the decision that was made was on cultural heritage 0:48:37.120 --> 0:48:40.240 grounds and this is what makes it very very difficult. 0:48:40.360 --> 0:48:44.880 I mean, the boardrooms around Australia are alarmed at the 0:48:44.960 --> 0:48:48.360 rising level of sovereign risk if you like, in making 0:48:48.400 --> 0:48:51.920 big investment decisions and doing business here. And this is 0:48:51.960 --> 0:48:56.040 because the Environment Minister has come up and said secret 0:48:56.040 --> 0:48:57.960 business can't tell you what it is, but no you 0:48:58.000 --> 0:49:02.040 can't do it. Very difficult needs to deal with. 0:49:02.360 --> 0:49:04.879 Yeah, indeed, all right, Graham Lloyd, thank you very much 0:49:04.960 --> 0:49:07.680 for joining me. That's it for me. Don't miss Monday 0:49:07.800 --> 0:49:10.879 big show. So Richard, dear love on Ailon Levy. I'll 0:49:10.920 --> 0:49:11.359 see you then.