Speaker 1: Appolgie Production. Hi, my name's beck Woodbine and welcome to
Speaker 1: Tenderness for Nurses.
Speaker 2: Do you need to burn out to have those insights?
Speaker 2: While I'm talking about it now? But you know, came
Speaker 2: to educate the world about it, but.
Speaker 1: I didn't want anyone to know that I was so unwell.
Speaker 1: I don't know when it was ever okay to yell
Speaker 1: or scream or abuse somebody. We need to have support
Speaker 1: and know where to look for support and know how
Speaker 1: to look after ourselves, not just professionally, but personally as well.
Speaker 1: It was quite profound and I learned a lot from
Speaker 1: that one action.
Speaker 2: Hi.
Speaker 1: Everyone, Welcome to Tenderness for Nurses. Today, we have the
Speaker 1: lovely guest and friend of mine and Coney, who owns
Speaker 1: and runs equenty leadership and learning business. She's here today
Speaker 1: to chat to us about leadership but also burnout, which
Speaker 1: has had a very personally experienced with and I have to.
Speaker 1: So we're going to chat through what it is, how
Speaker 1: you can help prevent it if you're at that stage,
Speaker 1: what you can do to promote your wellness and health,
Speaker 1: and it's something I think we as nurses all need
Speaker 1: to be very aware of with burnout especially in very
Speaker 1: high stress situations, but also how we can be good
Speaker 1: leaders to each other within the nursing environment. So thanks
Speaker 1: Ange for coming in.
Speaker 2: I really appreciate it. Thanks for inviting me. It's my
Speaker 2: pleasure give us a little.
Speaker 1: Bit of a rundown on you and what you do.
Speaker 2: I am a leadership coach and management consultant, and that
Speaker 2: means I'm working every day with leaders at some level
Speaker 2: from the front line right through to the senior executive,
Speaker 2: who are feeling the pressure to deliver in the business environment,
Speaker 2: and they're trying to deliver results for their organization and
Speaker 2: as well as look after their personal wellbeing and be
Speaker 2: good leaders in the process.
Speaker 1: Since COVID, do you think it's got worse to deliver
Speaker 1: more for less.
Speaker 2: I think the dynamics of work and the experience of
Speaker 2: work has changed. So we're all aware that we now
Speaker 2: have more flexible ways of working and that's challenged some
Speaker 2: of the more traditional leaders, although for nurses, you still
Speaker 2: need to turn up in the hospital and other care environments,
Speaker 2: and so you've had less flexibility and perhaps more pressure
Speaker 2: in your industry than other industries that have felt the
Speaker 2: relief of working from home and the relief of flexible
Speaker 2: hours and the blending of work and life in a
Speaker 2: more integrated way.
Speaker 1: I think people have realized how much money they can
Speaker 1: save not communing and time and energy time and but yeah,
Speaker 1: you're right. In the hospital setting and healthcare, they didn't
Speaker 1: have that opportunity. In fact, I think it got more stressful.
Speaker 2: Yes, I would imagine.
Speaker 1: So you yourself have had and spoken quite openly about burnout.
Speaker 1: And I know during the COVID stage and after COVID
Speaker 1: there was a lot of burnout in nurses just because
Speaker 1: of high stress. I know we didn't have the huge
Speaker 1: numbers that came through the hospital like they did overseas,
Speaker 1: and I know from colleagues overseas it was horrendous.
Speaker 2: What was the.
Speaker 1: Tipping point for you to realize that you were burnt out?
Speaker 2: I guess, to be honest, I saw it coming months
Speaker 2: in advance, and I felt it building, and I felt
Speaker 2: like I wasn't in control of my work schedule, which
Speaker 2: I was, but I didn't feel in control of it,
Speaker 2: like I had commitments to clients that I needed to
Speaker 2: see through and deliver, and I didn't feel like I
Speaker 2: could take the break that I knew that I needed
Speaker 2: and several months later, four or five months later, I
Speaker 2: was sitting outside of Coals with a shopping trolley full
Speaker 2: of groceries, and I sat on a bench and I realized,
Speaker 2: I'm cooked. I'm done. I've got nothing left. And I
Speaker 2: rang my mentor and said to him, I've got a problem.
Speaker 2: I'm at Coal's with my groceries and I don't think
Speaker 2: I can get home.
Speaker 1: What one little thing happened that made you just tipped
Speaker 1: you over the age.
Speaker 2: I don't think it's ever one little thing. I think
Speaker 2: I was traveling relentlessly. I was been through a divorce,
Speaker 2: so I was financially having to take care of myself,
Speaker 2: and I was really over committed in my work, traveling
Speaker 2: every week of the month, and I'd moved house to Brisbane,
Speaker 2: and all of that I think just added up. Maybe
Speaker 2: the straw that broke the camel's back was the trip
Speaker 2: to Cohole's. I don't know, but I I knew I was.
Speaker 2: I was depleted. Like I wasn't depressed. I was interested.
Speaker 2: Actually at the time, I thought, what is this burnout?
Speaker 2: And I googled it and the World Health Organization has
Speaker 2: a definition of burnout, and just to put it in
Speaker 2: very high level summary terms. It's when you're depleted, not depressed,
Speaker 2: just depleted. There's nothing left in the tank. Your energy
Speaker 2: is so low you're not productive. So even when I
Speaker 2: opened the laptop and want to to work, I couldn't.
Speaker 2: It was like the brain wasn't working or computing. You
Speaker 2: start to care less. It's kind of like you run
Speaker 2: out of fs to give, if I can say that,
Speaker 2: And you might want to give them, but they've got
Speaker 2: none left to give. And so it's that depletion, the
Speaker 2: lack of productivity and just the inability to care anymore
Speaker 2: that characterizes burnout in their definition, And that really resonated
Speaker 2: with me. So by the time I did get home
Speaker 2: and unload my groceries, and I took a few weeks off,
Speaker 2: and then I realized that's not going to do it.
Speaker 2: Taking a few weeks off after deep burnout didn't even
Speaker 2: touch the sides of healing and recovery. And it's taken
Speaker 2: me four years down the track now and I would
Speaker 2: say I'm still in recovery from burnout. Wow, I'm far
Speaker 2: more productive. I'm probably back at full capacity, but I
Speaker 2: work and live far differently now as a result of
Speaker 2: that experience.
Speaker 1: So you are very aware of triggers and how you're feeling.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exercise, yes, diet, look, yes, it's all those things
Speaker 2: like if you're burning out now, sure rest, eat a vegetable,
Speaker 2: go for a walk in the sunshine, get some water
Speaker 2: on board, drink a little less right, do those things
Speaker 2: for sure. But for me, my biggest realization through this
Speaker 2: process was that's all surface level stuff. What's underneath that
Speaker 2: is your pattern of thinking and being at work and
Speaker 2: how you approach work and how you busy yourself with work.
Speaker 2: In my case, I speak for myself. I busied myself
Speaker 2: with work so that I didn't have to face some
Speaker 2: deeper issues that were going on. You know, in my
Speaker 2: history and in my life, seemed like the easiest thing
Speaker 2: to do was to get busy with work until I
Speaker 2: burned myself out doing that. So you know, when you
Speaker 2: talk about exercise and healthy living, sure do that, it's
Speaker 2: a no brainer. But underneath that, you can take a break,
Speaker 2: you can take a holiday, you can eat well, but
Speaker 2: if you return to work and work in the same
Speaker 2: pattern that you did that burned you out, you'll just
Speaker 2: get back there quicker.
Speaker 1: What do you recommend for nurses who don't have those options,
Speaker 1: Like they have to go to work, they have to
Speaker 1: do the shift work they're employed to do, you know,
Speaker 1: three four days a week, full time. How do you
Speaker 1: manage that? Then, if you're a shift worker.
Speaker 2: I think if you're still able to work even though
Speaker 2: you've got a high pressure, fast paced environment, you've got
Speaker 2: to address your internal dialogue to allow yourself some grace
Speaker 2: and compassion and to be present in the experience so
Speaker 2: that you're kind to yourself in that testing experience. Because
Speaker 2: I think what we can do is harden ourselves to
Speaker 2: our work environment, harden our minds, harden our hearts, harden
Speaker 2: professional relationships just to get through the shift, and I
Speaker 2: think over time that does not contribute to a person's
Speaker 2: health and well being. It's kind of like you can't
Speaker 2: do anything about the external environment, the environment outside of you.
Speaker 2: You're still going to be on shift in a caring
Speaker 2: situation with multiple people who need you at one time,
Speaker 2: with reports and administration to take care of all of
Speaker 2: that continues. What you can change is the internal dialogue
Speaker 2: that you have with yourself, and it needs to be
Speaker 2: one of kindness and compassion and grace.
Speaker 1: I know from experience, the other route is so much
Speaker 1: easier to take than being kind to yourself. You know,
Speaker 1: we beat ourselves up, burnout, depression, anxiety, and the shame
Speaker 1: around the word psychiatric. For me, there shouldn't be, but
Speaker 1: it's visceral, like you nearly recoil when you hear the
Speaker 1: word psychiatric if you've been down that pathway. I just
Speaker 1: find it one of those words that just stereotypically shareful,
Speaker 1: being kind and caring for yourself and that internal dialogue
Speaker 1: is really hard when you've come from a place where
Speaker 1: you just overworked, underappreciated, have had some depression, anxiety, stress.
Speaker 1: I mean, my mind goes straight to emergency department and
Speaker 1: what those guys deal with on a day to day,
Speaker 1: out our minute to minute basis. How do you mitigate
Speaker 1: those issues around self talk and looking after yourself? And
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's really tough well and I don't
Speaker 1: think they're doing it well.
Speaker 2: I have done some consulting in hospitals where I've worked
Speaker 2: with both management of the hospital and with the nurses
Speaker 2: who manage the teams on the boards. I think there
Speaker 2: are a couple of components to how to deal with this,
Speaker 2: you know, because I'm a leadership coach. Of course, I'm
Speaker 2: going to say leadership skills. You've got to be leading yourself.
Speaker 2: If you're a leader, you've got to be leading yourself
Speaker 2: well before you can lead anyone else well with credibility. Right.
Speaker 2: The second thing would be to build a functional and constructive,
Speaker 2: healthy team. That's your responsibility. And if you're on a team,
Speaker 2: if you're not in a leadership position, then your responsibility
Speaker 2: is to show in a way that contributes to being
Speaker 2: constructive and functional. And perhaps you know just because your
Speaker 2: team is playing not a great standard or a lower
Speaker 2: standard than that right now, and doesn't mean you need
Speaker 2: to fall into that as well. You need to maintain
Speaker 2: your own integrity and identity and sense of yourself in this.
Speaker 2: And so when you feel like you're starting to lose
Speaker 2: some of your humanity at work, I think it's a
Speaker 2: moment for pause as far as your day to day experience. Again,
Speaker 2: I'm not a nurse, so I won't preach, but I
Speaker 2: can let you know a strategy that I've personally used,
Speaker 2: and that's to just simply be present in the moment
Speaker 2: that we're in. You know, we're both having a busy
Speaker 2: day to day. We've got lots of things going on
Speaker 2: in our world. But right now I'm allowing myself the
Speaker 2: experience of being fully present here with you, and I
Speaker 2: find that quite calming and soothing. There's some acceptance. I
Speaker 2: think if you're a nurse on a water on a
Speaker 2: shift that Okay, I'm here right now helping the person
Speaker 2: that's in front of me, and I'm doing my best,
Speaker 2: and then I'm going to go and help the next person.
Speaker 2: The better I take care of myself in the process.
Speaker 2: And I know nurses who don't go to the toilet
Speaker 2: or eat, you know, throughout the course of their shift.
Speaker 2: And you know, we can all suffer from that in
Speaker 2: our professional lives to some degree. But the better you
Speaker 2: take care of yourself, the better you're able to show
Speaker 2: up constructive and functional for your team, for your patients
Speaker 2: or clients.
Speaker 1: In my case, it's nearly like a badge of honor.
Speaker 1: This is go I have an eving to the toilet today.
Speaker 2: I think as a coach, I'm encouraging people to be
Speaker 2: in full self responsibility. So that means that even when
Speaker 2: we're employed, even when we don't have our own businesses,
Speaker 2: we don't get to blame the people around us for
Speaker 2: how we show up, we can always remember our choice
Speaker 2: to show up as constructive and functional as we can
Speaker 2: be in this moment. And if that means I remember
Speaker 2: to drink some water and go to the bathroom and
Speaker 2: eat something and just sit down for a moment or two,
Speaker 2: even if it is on the toilet, to compose yourself
Speaker 2: guaranteed quiet time comes with me. Just to take those
Speaker 2: little moments for yourself, to preserve your groundedness and scentsiveness
Speaker 2: and internal calm throughout the day, even when you're what's
Speaker 2: going on in your external environment is chaos, and that's
Speaker 2: you in full self responsibility for taking care of yourself.
Speaker 1: I just completed a course with doctor Wendy Macintosh about
Speaker 1: boundaries and ethics, and it was brilliant. She talks about
Speaker 1: the limbic system and how it controls you know, stress, anxiety,
Speaker 1: and how controlled breath is so underutilized but so powerful.
Speaker 1: You know, the box, the box breathing, box breathing is
Speaker 1: so good, but we forget to do it.
Speaker 2: And the way I always explained to me, and the
Speaker 2: way I teach my clients is that you would inhale
Speaker 2: for say, account of four, hold for account of four,
Speaker 2: exhale for account of four and then hold for another
Speaker 2: count of four before you inhale again from account of four,
Speaker 2: and you repeat that cycle, and you can imagine in
Speaker 2: your mind that you're creating a box shape for that
Speaker 2: count of four. And what that does is allows you
Speaker 2: to spend less time breathing in. It creates that anxious
Speaker 2: state and more time being present and through your exhale.
Speaker 2: And I'm no doctor or scientist, but I understand that
Speaker 2: this activates within your nervous system a calming response.
Speaker 1: In summary makes such a difference, and it makes you
Speaker 1: present in the moment because you can't think of anything else.
Speaker 1: You've got to think of that. They suggest that in
Speaker 1: high stress situations, if you can take the time even
Speaker 1: to do a couple of those cycles, it brings that
Speaker 1: racing heart down, the adrenaline drops, It helps you make
Speaker 1: a better decision in a really stressful moment.
Speaker 2: You can feel it in your body, that visceral relaxation.
Speaker 2: I think the trick is to remember to do it.
Speaker 2: I prefer to think about how can I tune into
Speaker 2: the signals of my body and to be alert to
Speaker 2: those that if I'm feeling tightness in my chest or
Speaker 2: a bit sick in my tummy, or if I've got
Speaker 2: tension in my jaw or my shoulders or a headache,
Speaker 2: how can I be observant and tuned into those signals
Speaker 2: and allow that to be informing my response. So I'm
Speaker 2: really honoring the signals from my body, because when you
Speaker 2: think about it, it was the fact that we weren't
Speaker 2: doing that that led us into burnout.
Speaker 1: My dream would be to have my own art studio,
Speaker 1: have a kiln out the back, you know, an easel
Speaker 1: at the front, the dog running around, and just do
Speaker 1: art and craft like seriously, that to me would heaven.
Speaker 2: Well, now that you've expressed it and put it out
Speaker 2: in the world, you're a step closer to that.
Speaker 1: We can only hope. It's an interesting thing how we
Speaker 1: as nurses as givers and here I've always thought of
Speaker 1: myself as a healer. We feel like we're not being
Speaker 1: good nurses if we're not.
Speaker 2: I love that. Yeah, thank you for saying that out loud.
Speaker 2: I'm not being a good nurse unless I'm giving. Logically,
Speaker 2: that doesn't sound right when you say it out loud,
Speaker 2: but emotionally, there's all sorts of things that drive nurses
Speaker 2: into this caring profession. As a patient, I've met nurses
Speaker 2: across the spectrum of like really beautifully present and caring
Speaker 2: through to hardened and treating me like a number in
Speaker 2: a machine. And as a consultant in hospitals working with
Speaker 2: leadership teams, I see nurses deploying those strategies as coping
Speaker 2: mechanisms because they're fatigued by showing so much compassion and
Speaker 2: drawing on that empty cup. And some of the models
Speaker 2: and frames that I teach in leadership coaching and on
Speaker 2: the leadership programs are all about how can I be
Speaker 2: in full self responsibility for filling my own cup, not
Speaker 2: expecting my boss to do it, not expecting my organization
Speaker 2: to do it, although would be nice if they offered
Speaker 2: some more support, but how do I be more in
Speaker 2: charge of my own experience? And it's everything from what
Speaker 2: we've discussed, taking the breaks in the healthy food, but
Speaker 2: just allowing yourself full presence in the moment.
Speaker 1: I worry that we're going to end up going down
Speaker 1: that whole American insurance healthcare. I am someone that believes
Speaker 1: there should be free healthcare for all. I'm also realistic
Speaker 1: enough to realize how much it costs because I run
Speaker 1: my own clinic, and I know how much it costs
Speaker 1: every week to keep those doors open from insurance laser licensing.
Speaker 1: It is expensive, so I can only imagine how much
Speaker 1: it costs to keep a major hospital open. So I
Speaker 1: have no doubt that at some stack we're all don't
Speaker 1: have to pay for healthcare in some way or another.
Speaker 1: I don't think it can be free forever.
Speaker 2: If you want to maintain a good organizational culture, then
Speaker 2: you've got to consider the realities of those commercial drivers
Speaker 2: and constraints with the human factors. And I feel like
Speaker 2: that's where we're possibly a little out of balance in
Speaker 2: the workplace. At the moment. We're quite concerned with compliance
Speaker 2: and profitability, and if we have to dehumanize the experience
Speaker 2: of work to achieve that, then that's what we do.
Speaker 2: And I think that that will have a consequence not
Speaker 2: just for individuals in the workplace, but for the overall
Speaker 2: experience of work in the long term.
Speaker 1: I thought, just pop into my head, and you might
Speaker 1: be able to sort of give us a little bit
Speaker 1: of an idea, your opinion within the aesthetic space where
Speaker 1: I work, cosmic dematology, I as a nurse, don't feel
Speaker 1: like I should charge more than the other staff in
Speaker 1: my business. However, I've got fifteen years more experience, and
Speaker 1: yet because I'm a nurse as practitioner, I feel like
Speaker 1: I can't charge more than my team. However, I'll make
Speaker 1: down the road who's done two years of injecting? But
Speaker 1: is a doctor. I'm not banking doctors. I have some
Speaker 1: amazing friends and colleagues that are medical practitioners. He charges
Speaker 1: four dollars more a unit for an anti wrinkle treatment.
Speaker 1: What is the psyche with that?
Speaker 2: Well, he doesn't have the limiting beliefs that you have.
Speaker 1: But why do so many nurses have that?
Speaker 2: I think it's human nature. One, you're in a hierarchy
Speaker 2: and a hospital environment and nurses iientifically at the top.
Speaker 2: So there's that aspect. I think it is also human
Speaker 2: nature to have some what we call limiting beliefs. So
Speaker 2: as part of my practice as a leadership coach, I
Speaker 2: do neurolinguistic programming. Part of that practice is to identify
Speaker 2: what are the limiting beliefs that I have. Stories that
Speaker 2: I've told myself over and over again so much so
Speaker 2: that they've become true for me, whether they're true or not.
Speaker 2: How do we start to challenge some of those limiting beliefs.
Speaker 2: So for you, there's something underlying there, something deeper around
Speaker 2: my worth and my value and my ability to express
Speaker 2: that is being constrained by a story of not good enough,
Speaker 2: not deserving, you know, don't add enough value. Yeah, what
Speaker 2: does it mean if I charge as much as a doctor?
Speaker 2: Do I have tickets on myself? Some of these sorts
Speaker 2: of beliefs, you know, they're pretty common.
Speaker 1: Oh so common in nursing that you know, she thinks
Speaker 1: you should be a doctor, or it is such a
Speaker 1: tall poppy syndrome.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so if you had a belief that was
Speaker 2: different to the rest of your team, then you wouldn't
Speaker 2: be fitting in. You'd be isolated. You could be you know,
Speaker 2: picked on, bullied. You know, it's quite a tribe. What
Speaker 2: we call a tribal mentality is that you want to
Speaker 2: fit in, and fitting in means that you have those limiting,
Speaker 2: subservient beliefs, and that's what you'll do to fit in.
Speaker 2: The people that I work with are tired of that mindset.
Speaker 2: It's been brought into their awareness one way or the
Speaker 2: other that I've got that mindset, the I've got those
Speaker 2: beliefs operating and they don't want them anymore. So through
Speaker 2: the process of neurolinguistic programming and a particular tool within
Speaker 2: that suite called timeline therapy, I'd be looking to understand
Speaker 2: what are those limiting beliefs and how do we start
Speaker 2: to challenge and diffuse the effect of those limiting beliefs
Speaker 2: so that you could replace them with more positive ones.
Speaker 2: So you know, why don't you value yourself enough and
Speaker 2: charge enough? Well, that's I believe often at the heart
Speaker 2: of it, no matter what you put on your pricing schedule,
Speaker 2: no matter how good your marketing is or your sales
Speaker 2: conversation is, at the end of the day, underneath that,
Speaker 2: you've got to believe that you're worth it and feel
Speaker 2: aligned and comfortable in what you charge, and that requires
Speaker 2: some self awareness and self development. I would say something
Speaker 2: I'd noticed about the medical profession, and it's the same
Speaker 2: in academia as well and some of the other more
Speaker 2: traditional disciplines. When we think about how we develop ourselves
Speaker 2: and become more confident and competent so that we can
Speaker 2: charge our worth. We do what you've done up until now,
Speaker 2: and that's invest in your discipline. In education, within your discipline,
Speaker 2: and unless you meet that with a degree of leadership
Speaker 2: and personal development, in my experience, then you'll be a
Speaker 2: very knowledgeable individual with very poor self awareness, self leadership,
Speaker 2: self regulation, and self worth. And so you need to
Speaker 2: balance all of your nursing knowledge with the knowledge, the tools,
Speaker 2: the theories, concepts, frames, practices that allow you to become
Speaker 2: whole feel whole more of the time as a person.
Speaker 1: I've gone off and done work on boundaries, ethics as
Speaker 1: well as my own professional development. But to round that
Speaker 1: all off and to be a really great nurse leader
Speaker 1: business owner also should come in and do some work
Speaker 1: on leadership skills and personal developed personal development. I'm putting
Speaker 1: all of that together.
Speaker 2: So that you can be a whole human at work
Speaker 2: and a whole human at home. And you're actually the
Speaker 2: same human, you know.
Speaker 1: So regardless of where you are. So you don't put
Speaker 1: on your nursing hat, and you don't or your work
Speaker 1: hat and your home hat. That's ange and that's ae
Speaker 1: work and ange at home.
Speaker 2: I personally have thrown out the idea that I'm going
Speaker 2: to turn up as a different human in my professional
Speaker 2: environment than I do at home because the transaction cost
Speaker 2: of taking my personal head off and putting my work
Speaker 2: head on was too tiring. It contributed to the burnout.
Speaker 2: It's putting a mask on to go to work, and
Speaker 2: I'm just not interested in doing that. So I think
Speaker 2: when you can feel whole in your life and you
Speaker 2: realize that work is a part of your life and
Speaker 2: in that work part of your life, you get to
Speaker 2: feel whole there too, and keep all of your humanity
Speaker 2: in the work environments. People be going and you're delusional.
Speaker 2: Have you been in a hospital? Have you been on
Speaker 2: a an, a water on a shift? I can't, I have,
Speaker 2: you know, I haven't been a nurse, But of people
Speaker 2: there and they're like, this is what we have to
Speaker 2: do to survive. And I think if that is your
Speaker 2: mode of operating, then you'll get to burn out eventually.
Speaker 2: But if you can bring to work a level of
Speaker 2: comfort of this is who I am holistically in my life,
Speaker 2: and I am someone who takes care of others, and
Speaker 2: I'm someone who takes care of myself, and I can
Speaker 2: feel integrated and aligned and whole in that, then I'm
Speaker 2: going to have a far more sustainable experience of work.
Speaker 2: Whose job is it to create that experience? Well, it's
Speaker 2: not your boss, although they contribute. It's not your teammates,
Speaker 2: although they contribute. It's how you choose to show up
Speaker 2: and how much work you're prepared to invest in yourself
Speaker 2: to be able to show up in that way.
Speaker 1: It's a bit of a common theme of self betterment,
Speaker 1: and you know every other person is on some self
Speaker 1: development self. Yes, I know. When I was well with
Speaker 1: see I even have trouble saying it anxiety and depression.
Speaker 1: I didn't know how sick I was, and now that
Speaker 1: I do, now that I'm looking after myself, me coming first,
Speaker 1: So getting enough sleep, eating well, exercising downtime, doing my
Speaker 1: art comes first. But when you've got no insight and
Speaker 1: you think you're doing all these things which I thought
Speaker 1: I was, how do you get to that point other
Speaker 1: than falling down a black hole.
Speaker 2: Look, we've all got a different set of programming in
Speaker 2: terms of our genetics and our upbringing, our social conditioning
Speaker 2: that inform our sense of our own value. So I
Speaker 2: think it's going to be different for every person. For me,
Speaker 2: as it turned out, I did have to have that
Speaker 2: burnout experience to understand how anchored I was to achievement
Speaker 2: as a source of love. That was it for me.
Speaker 2: If I'm not achieving, I'm not worthy and lovable. For nurses,
Speaker 2: it could be more the story of if I'm not
Speaker 2: giving and caring for others, then I have no value
Speaker 2: in the world. Now, when I say that out loud,
Speaker 2: it sounds ridiculous, but this is often the deeply held belief.
Speaker 2: One of the big themes that comes through my coaching
Speaker 2: is that I wanted detach your identity and your sense
Speaker 2: of value from what you do. They're unrelated, they're not linked.
Speaker 2: You think about your children who were born as perfect
Speaker 2: little chubby babies, regardless of whether they brought home an
Speaker 2: ABZ hopefully not a D or E. But even if
Speaker 2: they did on their report card, they had a value.
Speaker 2: Whether they scored a goal on the weekend, or whether
Speaker 2: they came first in the running race. You know, whether
Speaker 2: they were polite to mister and missus Smith at the shops.
Speaker 2: They actually still have an innate value as humans that
Speaker 2: they were born with and that you want to see
Speaker 2: them hold retain throughout their lives. No matter how much
Speaker 2: they do or don't achieve today, how much they do
Speaker 2: or don't help or serve, they have a value as humans,
Speaker 2: and we forget that at work, and we start to
Speaker 2: connect our identity and sense of who we are to
Speaker 2: what we do, and we're acknowledged for it, rewarded for
Speaker 2: it by society and parents and teachers and bosses so on.
Speaker 2: We get paid different values for it. I think when
Speaker 2: we start to remember that as a human, I have
Speaker 2: an innate value I was born with. It can't change
Speaker 2: depending on how much I serve today or how much
Speaker 2: I achieved today. And there's freedom in that. There's freedom
Speaker 2: to remember that actually I can sort of tap back
Speaker 2: into my own voice and that it has a value
Speaker 2: and the signals from my body and I can start
Speaker 2: to honor that. And this is self responsibility. And when
Speaker 2: I say self responsibility, I don't mean you need to
Speaker 2: be harder on yourself and more disciplined and committed. Well,
Speaker 2: all of that just makes me want to be sick, right.
Speaker 2: It's not tenderness, nurses or anyone for anyone. Self responsibility
Speaker 2: is how do I show up whole and aligned and
Speaker 2: honor myself so that I can serve and that I
Speaker 2: can be an example and that I can be a
Speaker 2: good contributor in the world and a good human in
Speaker 2: the world unless I'm doing that from an aligned place,
Speaker 2: that I'm not in full integrity and I'm having to
Speaker 2: put a mask on to do it. People, whether they
Speaker 2: can voice it or not, they notice as you approach
Speaker 2: a person in a hallway, their central nervous system will
Speaker 2: tell them whether or not you're a safe person to
Speaker 2: be around, whether you're in a good mood, whether you've
Speaker 2: got good intent, good energy. You know, whether you're going
Speaker 2: to be a threat to them. Absolutely, our nervous systems
Speaker 2: tell us that. And so unless you're in anything but
Speaker 2: full integrity and alignment in your service to the world,
Speaker 2: other people will notice that as well. Do you need
Speaker 2: to burn out to have those insights? Well, I'm talking
Speaker 2: about it now, but you know, keen to educate the
Speaker 2: world about it. But frankly, sometimes you've got to have
Speaker 2: that experience for you to stop long enough to learn
Speaker 2: the lessons and integrate them in your life in that way.
Speaker 2: I think burnout has been a blessing for me. I
Speaker 2: didn't have the choice to stop. I had to stop
Speaker 2: and learn those lessons because, believe me, I was a
Speaker 2: different person before burnout. Operate very differently.
Speaker 1: I feel that nursing is and has always been very
Speaker 1: much part of my identity. That's why I like to
Speaker 1: say I'm a healer, not so much a nurse, because
Speaker 1: I've always looked at myself as healing, helping. I don't
Speaker 1: know touch for I don't know.
Speaker 2: How you've turned that inward. You turn it outwards to others,
Speaker 2: and now you've turned it inward. And what alignment you're
Speaker 2: creating through that experience?
Speaker 1: What advice would you give to nurses or health professionals
Speaker 1: that are feeling like they're getting close to burnout but
Speaker 1: can't afford not to work and have to shower up
Speaker 1: every day and have no sick leave left.
Speaker 2: I would say, hold this one question in your mind,
Speaker 2: and that is what is the most nurturing nourishing thing
Speaker 2: I can do for myself today? Is it to make
Speaker 2: sure I visit the bathroom while I'm on my shift?
Speaker 2: Is it to make sure that I take a break
Speaker 2: and eat something. Is it that I maybe don't pour
Speaker 2: that glass of wine or that extra glass of wine
Speaker 2: when I get home tonight? Is it that I stay hydrated,
Speaker 2: that I allow myself to be present in this moment
Speaker 2: of work and to be fully accepting of my experience,
Speaker 2: that I am at work right now, and there's just
Speaker 2: a level of acceptance around that so that I can
Speaker 2: be fully present here and now. There's so many different
Speaker 2: ways that we can extend ourselves care and the way
Speaker 2: to know what to do is to tune into your
Speaker 2: own body and ask, what is that most nurturing, nourishing
Speaker 2: thing I can do for myself right now? Do that,
Speaker 2: rinse and repeat every day until you start to build
Speaker 2: up a practice, until it starts to become more habitual,
Speaker 2: that caring for yourself is part of your daily approach
Speaker 2: to life and work.
Speaker 1: You've got to show up for yourself because you can't
Speaker 1: show up for others if you don't show up for yourself.
Speaker 1: So well summarized, Yeah, we're too from here for you
Speaker 1: now moving forward.
Speaker 2: Burnout has been an interesting period, like it's been a
Speaker 2: force four years now. It's only in the last four
Speaker 2: to six months that I have felt safe to have
Speaker 2: career goals again. I wasn't interested in them because I
Speaker 2: was too busy healing and recovering and recharging. So now
Speaker 2: I've got some goals. From the perspective of leadership coaching
Speaker 2: and management consulting, I'm working with change leaders who are
Speaker 2: making a difference in issues of sustainable development. So anyone
Speaker 2: that's aligned with the sustainable development goals of the United
Speaker 2: Nations that are working in environmental social governance change. I
Speaker 2: work with scientists, engineers, like good people doing good things
Speaker 2: in the world. I want to help them have that
Speaker 2: aligned experience of having the insights match the outsides. I'm
Speaker 2: talking to a lot of them on the Secret Life
Speaker 2: of leaders podcast, through my consulting, through leadership programs, and
Speaker 2: I really just want to lean in to working with
Speaker 2: people with that good intent so that they can have
Speaker 2: a better, more impactful, more powerful experience of leadership and
Speaker 2: make a bigger difference in the world.
Speaker 1: If there's one thing you want to share today that
Speaker 1: relates back to tenderness for nurses, So if you were
Speaker 1: talking to a group of nurses, what is the one
Speaker 1: thing you would recommend they try and do on a
Speaker 1: daily basis.
Speaker 2: I would say, have enough grace and compassion for yourself
Speaker 2: so you can make the insides much the outsides, so
Speaker 2: that your grace and tenderness and compassion care for yourself.
Speaker 2: The way that you bring that to the world is
Speaker 2: just an extension of what you're doing for yourself. So
Speaker 2: you can be aligned in the experience of caring for others. Yeah,
Speaker 2: instead of giving from an empty cop love.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming in. I have got
Speaker 1: so much out of today with you and let's hope
Speaker 1: we get your backcine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much for having things sane.