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Speaker 1: Let's talk about gas, because the indications are despite all

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Speaker 1: the governments around the country and green groups etc. Saying

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Speaker 1: we've got to stop gas Victoria, you can't have gas

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Speaker 1: connected now. Act similarly, if not yet, it'll be next year.

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Speaker 1: Here in Adelaide, the Adelaide City Council doesn't want gas

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Speaker 1: in the city for new new residences or any buildings

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Speaker 1: have gas connected. They can't enforce that, that's just their policy.

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Speaker 1: But the state government says gas is a thing here.

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Speaker 1: Fortunately there's some sense there. That's good. Sydney's councils also

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Speaker 1: individually embarking on a no gas crusade for new new properties. Well,

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Speaker 1: the latest stats show there have been seventy thousand new

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Speaker 1: gas connections in the last two years and that's just

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Speaker 1: from six energy companies that have volunteered that information. Seventy

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Speaker 1: thousand over the last two and it makes sense we

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Speaker 1: float on the stuff. In Australia. Professor Samantha Hepburn, Professor

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Speaker 1: of Law, Deacon Uni Sam good morning, good morning. It's good.

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Speaker 1: I suppose that gas is still relevant because that means

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Speaker 1: more connections, more people signing up to it means the

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Speaker 1: prices will at least to some degree stay lower.

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Speaker 2: That's true, that's right. The more that you've got signing up,

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Speaker 2: the more you can get prices leveling out. So that

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Speaker 2: is one advantage. And as you mentioned, Matthew, the latest

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Speaker 2: gas cardly disconnection reporting that data from the Australian Energy

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Speaker 2: Regulator shows new connections continuing to outnumber those seeking to

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Speaker 2: disconnect across all states except for the Act. And so

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Speaker 2: it would seem that in the Act there's quite a

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Speaker 2: bit of incentive, regulatory incentive being offered for residents to

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Speaker 2: go or elect I think, you know, facilitating all electric

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Speaker 2: ones by offering subsidies and interest free lines. That hasn't

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Speaker 2: really occurred in a lot of the other states. But

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Speaker 2: combined with that, particularly I mean Victoria has a ban

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Speaker 2: on you gas, but for other states that ban hasn't

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Speaker 2: been implemented apart from the Act. And what we're seeing,

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Speaker 2: I guess is perhaps consumer preference, the desire to continue

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Speaker 2: to use gas because gas is seen to be preferable

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Speaker 2: to other forms of energy, and perhaps it's also because

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Speaker 2: that's something that consumers are used to using. There are

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Speaker 2: some other issues that might impact the decision. One of

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Speaker 2: the factors might be that some states allow energy providers

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Speaker 2: to charge fairly large fees for disconnecting from the gas.

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Speaker 2: So in some states, I think in Victoria the disconnection

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Speaker 2: fees set at about two hundred dollars or two twenty

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Speaker 2: I think it is very but in other states it

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Speaker 2: can be upwards of one thousand dollars. So that's a

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Speaker 2: big cost on top of your energy costs to have

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Speaker 2: to fork out. So you might decide that you won't

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Speaker 2: permanently abolish your home gas connection, and then if you've

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Speaker 2: still got it, maybe you're deciding that you will use

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Speaker 2: it occasionally. So those all of those figures will go

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Speaker 2: into that data to determine, you know, whether they have

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Speaker 2: what the disconnection levels might be.

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Speaker 1: Well, if there's a blackout and you've got gas, you

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Speaker 1: can at least have hot water and you can cook.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly right, Okay, So that is a factor as well.

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Speaker 2: And we're all we've all experienced blackouts with some extreme

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Speaker 2: weather events, particularly storms that we might have which might

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Speaker 2: take out into electrical infrastructure. So that's a very good point, Matthew.

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Speaker 2: And that's sort of consumers thinking, well, I might need

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Speaker 2: that as a backup, and you know, I mean, we've

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Speaker 2: got a newly released future gas strategy where the central

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Speaker 2: government is clearly confirming its intention to develop new gas

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Speaker 2: supply and to support gas beyond twenty fifty. In Victoria,

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Speaker 2: the net zero target is you know, net zero but

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Speaker 2: twenty forty five, and Victorians use the most gas apparently

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Speaker 2: across the country, probably because a lot of the houses

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Speaker 2: have gas heating in them and we all know it's

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Speaker 2: been freezing lately. And so the idea, I guess in

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Speaker 2: Victoria is to basically stop new connections by imposing a

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Speaker 2: ban and then that will effectively reduce the increase of

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Speaker 2: emissions to try and I suppose help the government reach

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Speaker 2: that twenty forty five objective. So basically, gas connections in

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Speaker 2: Victoria are banned from the first of January of this year,

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Speaker 2: and new residential properties that include basically new residential properties,

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Speaker 2: government buildings, schools, hospitals, et cetera. They're all going to

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Speaker 2: be powered by electricity, and only gas companies can offer

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Speaker 2: cash incentives or rebates to install new gas of minds either.

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Speaker 2: So that's you know, that's a framework that is associated

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Speaker 2: with that net zero target, but it also connects to

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Speaker 2: the fact that Victoria is one of the biggest household

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Speaker 2: users of gas.

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Speaker 1: Isn't it ironic that that policy in Victoria of no

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Speaker 1: new gas connections has forced out a company that made

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Speaker 1: gas heaters to the biggest market in Australia And they've

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Speaker 1: returned at seally and they've returned to their base here

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Speaker 1: in South Australia, which they never left. Of course they

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Speaker 1: were still here, but they had a big factory employing

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Speaker 1: some hundreds of people at Aubrey Wedonga and they've closed that,

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Speaker 1: shifting all operations to Essay as a result of this

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Speaker 1: ridiculous policy in Victoria.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, correct, exactly. So it has a big economic impact

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Speaker 2: and there's a shift, clear shift in terms of what's

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Speaker 2: happening there. Obviously, they can't operate if there's not going

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Speaker 2: to be if there has to be a ban on

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Speaker 2: all new connections. So yeah, it is very interesting.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I've just got a couple of text messages here,

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Speaker 1: just local information. Jane says there's a no gas policy

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Speaker 1: in a new development at Oakton Rise, no option to

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Speaker 1: have gas, it has to be electric or nothing. And

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Speaker 1: James telling me in Mount Barker all new homes must

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Speaker 1: have gas. So there's a bit of really so there's

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Speaker 1: clearly not a uniform approach to all of this, which

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Speaker 1: is very interesting because.

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Speaker 2: It seems a bit weird that that that choice isn't

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Speaker 2: given over to consumers. I mean, certainly I realized that

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Speaker 2: governments are sort of Certainly the Victorian government has estimated, oh, well,

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Speaker 2: you know, the change is going to save households you know,

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Speaker 2: I don't know of money on their annual energy bills.

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Speaker 2: But it does actually come down to choice. And as

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Speaker 2: you I think that was a very good point that

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Speaker 2: you raised, Matthew, about having that back up, you know,

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Speaker 2: in the event of any sort of blackout situation where

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Speaker 2: you've got that security issue.

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Speaker 1: But you know what it does show, these figures of

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Speaker 1: seventy thousand new connections suggests that people aren't buying the

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Speaker 1: rhetoric of government correct.

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Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, and where they can make the choice, they

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Speaker 2: are making a.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well let's say it sticks around for a long

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Speaker 1: while to come. Sam. Thank you for your time today.

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Speaker 2: Absolute pleasure, Matthew

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Speaker 1: Professor Samantha Hepburn, Professor of laud Deacon Uni