1 00:00:04,050 --> 00:00:07,230 Michael Thompson: The Voice dominates the last session of Parliament with opposition 2 00:00:07,230 --> 00:00:09,990 Michael Thompson: leader Peter Dutton, calling on the government to cancel the 3 00:00:09,990 --> 00:00:14,040 Michael Thompson: referendum. The local share market tumbles with tech stocks sold 4 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:17,699 Michael Thompson: off, and Indonesia gives everyone a five- day weekend in 5 00:00:17,699 --> 00:00:21,150 Michael Thompson: an effort to boost spending. It's Friday the 23rd of 6 00:00:21,150 --> 00:00:25,169 Michael Thompson: June 2023, welcome to Fear and Greed, Australia's most popular 7 00:00:25,170 --> 00:00:28,710 Michael Thompson: business podcast. I'm Michael Thompson, and good morning, Sean Aylmer. 8 00:00:28,980 --> 00:00:30,240 Sean Aylmer: Good morning, Michael. 9 00:00:30,450 --> 00:00:33,690 Michael Thompson: Sean, your interview today, a little bit different, we're speaking 10 00:00:33,750 --> 00:00:37,710 Michael Thompson: with Justin Graham, who is the group CEO at M&C Saachi 11 00:00:37,710 --> 00:00:41,339 Michael Thompson: Australia and New Zealand, and also their global head of advertising. 12 00:00:41,729 --> 00:00:45,780 Sean Aylmer: Yes, all about brand and brands, now, he's actually coming 13 00:00:45,780 --> 00:00:48,360 Sean Aylmer: to us from, Michael, where is it? It's France, the 14 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:48,960 Sean Aylmer: city of? 15 00:00:49,979 --> 00:00:51,060 Michael Thompson: I believe it's Cannes. 16 00:00:51,389 --> 00:00:52,049 Sean Aylmer: Not Cannes? 17 00:00:52,289 --> 00:00:55,140 Michael Thompson: No, no. We've had an authoritative ruling on this. 18 00:00:55,140 --> 00:00:57,900 Sean Aylmer: Yes, we did. He's over in Cannes at the moment, 19 00:00:57,900 --> 00:00:59,490 Sean Aylmer: and we have a great chat to him about brands 20 00:00:59,490 --> 00:01:01,140 Sean Aylmer: and what's going on in the world of advertising. 21 00:01:01,380 --> 00:01:03,540 Michael Thompson: Yeah, it's a really good one, it's worth a listen 22 00:01:03,540 --> 00:01:05,578 Michael Thompson: a little bit later on. First though, the main story 23 00:01:05,580 --> 00:01:08,729 Michael Thompson: this morning, Sean, federal Parliament has adjourned for five and 24 00:01:08,730 --> 00:01:11,249 Michael Thompson: a half weeks, and the last sitting day before the 25 00:01:11,250 --> 00:01:15,240 Michael Thompson: midwinter break was a fairly robust day in Parliament, I 26 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:17,910 Michael Thompson: suppose you'd describe it. The Voice referendum was the main 27 00:01:17,910 --> 00:01:18,630 Michael Thompson: topic of the day. 28 00:01:19,140 --> 00:01:21,569 Sean Aylmer: Yes. In fact, it's the last time many of us 29 00:01:21,569 --> 00:01:24,719 Sean Aylmer: will hear from politicians for a while, so all sides 30 00:01:24,719 --> 00:01:27,150 Sean Aylmer: were anxious to finish the sitting period with a bit 31 00:01:27,150 --> 00:01:29,849 Sean Aylmer: of a bang. It was the Voice that got the 32 00:01:29,910 --> 00:01:34,110 Sean Aylmer: most attention, starting with opposition leader Peter Dutton, who suggested 33 00:01:34,110 --> 00:01:37,380 Sean Aylmer: to Prime Minister Anthony Albanese that he just drop the 34 00:01:37,380 --> 00:01:41,190 Sean Aylmer: referendum since in his view it will fail and there's 35 00:01:41,190 --> 00:01:43,559 Sean Aylmer: no point going forward because it will just divide the 36 00:01:43,559 --> 00:01:46,590 Sean Aylmer: country. There were claims that Anthony Albanese is trying to 37 00:01:46,590 --> 00:01:49,140 Sean Aylmer: rewrite history with the Voice to Parliament, while other more 38 00:01:49,170 --> 00:01:52,800 Sean Aylmer: bizarre questions from the coalition, like whether the Voice will 39 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,590 Sean Aylmer: have power to offer advice to the Reserve Bank on 40 00:01:55,590 --> 00:01:58,679 Sean Aylmer: interest rates. For his part, the Prime Minister said the 41 00:01:58,679 --> 00:02:02,819 Sean Aylmer: Voice advisory body isn't a third chamber of Parliament, it 42 00:02:02,820 --> 00:02:05,489 Sean Aylmer: won't change how laws are made, he said it could 43 00:02:05,490 --> 00:02:08,310 Sean Aylmer: help save money because it will give indigenous Australians a 44 00:02:08,310 --> 00:02:11,580 Sean Aylmer: say in how money should be spent in relation to 45 00:02:11,580 --> 00:02:14,730 Sean Aylmer: Aboriginals. Away from the Voice, the opposition in the Senate 46 00:02:14,730 --> 00:02:18,478 Sean Aylmer: moved a motion to (inaudible) Finance Minister Katie Gallagher 47 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:22,590 Sean Aylmer: over allegations she mislead Parliament about her knowledge of Brittany 48 00:02:22,590 --> 00:02:25,290 Sean Aylmer: Higgins' rape allegations before she went public, that was back 49 00:02:25,290 --> 00:02:28,860 Sean Aylmer: in 2021. The vote failed, but it has become a 50 00:02:28,860 --> 00:02:33,179 Sean Aylmer: political challenge for the government. And Anthony Albanese again attacked 51 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:37,350 Sean Aylmer: the greens over its blocking of labor's signature housing policy, 52 00:02:37,679 --> 00:02:40,469 Sean Aylmer: accusing the party of being driven by self- interest in 53 00:02:40,469 --> 00:02:44,369 Sean Aylmer: dealing with the government's $ 10 billion Housing Australia Future Fund. 54 00:02:44,790 --> 00:02:48,330 Sean Aylmer: Therein lies the three big topics we've heard about over 55 00:02:48,330 --> 00:02:50,550 Sean Aylmer: the past couple of months, and we'll continue to hear 56 00:02:50,550 --> 00:02:55,169 Sean Aylmer: about the Voice, the Brittany Higgins trial and who knew 57 00:02:55,169 --> 00:02:58,530 Sean Aylmer: what, and of course, the Housing Australia Future Fund. 58 00:02:58,949 --> 00:03:02,220 Michael Thompson: What a day in Parliament, and of course we had Federal 59 00:03:02,220 --> 00:03:05,280 Michael Thompson: Treasurer Jim Chalmers have a bit to say as well. 60 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:07,709 Michael Thompson: He pointed out that a budget surplus for this financial 61 00:03:07,710 --> 00:03:10,679 Michael Thompson: year is about to be delivered. He also hinted that 62 00:03:10,679 --> 00:03:14,250 Michael Thompson: Philip Lowe will not be reappointed as governor of the 63 00:03:14,250 --> 00:03:17,129 Michael Thompson: Reserve Bank, saying the next leader needs to take the 64 00:03:17,129 --> 00:03:18,298 Michael Thompson: bank into the future. 65 00:03:18,870 --> 00:03:21,660 Sean Aylmer: Chalmers said that next month he'll announce who will be 66 00:03:21,660 --> 00:03:25,200 Sean Aylmer: governor from September, when Lowe's term expires. Lowe could still 67 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:29,040 Sean Aylmer: be reappointed, but that now does seem unlikely. Deputy Governor 68 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:31,619 Sean Aylmer: Michele Bullock is in the mix, as is head of 69 00:03:31,620 --> 00:03:35,400 Sean Aylmer: the Department of Finance, Jenny Wilkinson, who as a younger 70 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:38,370 Sean Aylmer: economist actually worked at the Reserve Bank. Others in the 71 00:03:38,370 --> 00:03:42,570 Sean Aylmer: mix include Wilkinson's husband, David Gruen. Now, he currently runs 72 00:03:42,570 --> 00:03:45,600 Sean Aylmer: the Bureau of Statistics... Imagine that conversation at home? Hey, 73 00:03:46,590 --> 00:03:49,230 Sean Aylmer: honey, I got a job. Really? I got a job 74 00:03:49,230 --> 00:03:52,919 Sean Aylmer: offer. What was it? You got it? Anyway. 75 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:53,939 Michael Thompson: Very uncomfortable. 76 00:03:54,059 --> 00:03:56,760 Sean Aylmer: That will be David Gruen and Jenny Wilkinson, all due 77 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:00,120 Sean Aylmer: respect, I hope the best person wins. Also, could be 78 00:04:00,420 --> 00:04:02,580 Sean Aylmer: former Governor Guy Debelle, he'll be thrown in there, though 79 00:04:02,580 --> 00:04:06,149 Sean Aylmer: I think that's probably unlikely. Former Treasury Secretary Martin Parkinson 80 00:04:06,450 --> 00:04:10,109 Sean Aylmer: is another person who has been mentioned in dispatchers. Anyway, 81 00:04:10,109 --> 00:04:11,130 Sean Aylmer: we'll find that out next month. 82 00:04:11,639 --> 00:04:14,490 Michael Thompson: All right, Sean, how did local markets perform yesterday? 83 00:04:14,790 --> 00:04:18,000 Sean Aylmer: Well, not well, really. The S&P ASX 200 finished the day down 1. 6%, 84 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,589 Sean Aylmer: it dropped at the opening and then kept going. By 85 00:04:22,589 --> 00:04:24,659 Sean Aylmer: the end of the day, about 85% of the top 86 00:04:24,660 --> 00:04:28,379 Sean Aylmer: 200 stocks were down. The tech companies led the market 87 00:04:28,379 --> 00:04:30,839 Sean Aylmer: lower, following a big selloff on Wall Street. In fact, 88 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:33,360 Sean Aylmer: the Nasdaq, which of course has plenty of tech stocks 89 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,839 Sean Aylmer: in it, it closed down 3. 6% yesterday morning, and 90 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:39,719 Sean Aylmer: the local market followed suit, WiseTech Global and Zero both 91 00:04:39,719 --> 00:04:43,559 Sean Aylmer: finished more than 4% lower. The miners weren't real good, 92 00:04:43,559 --> 00:04:48,540 Sean Aylmer: commodity prices is the problem there, BHP was off 2.5%. The real estate 93 00:04:48,540 --> 00:04:52,230 Sean Aylmer: and consumer discretionary stocks suffered from fees of higher interest 94 00:04:52,230 --> 00:04:55,800 Sean Aylmer: rates. Telcos fell, so did the banks, Commonwealth Bank, National 95 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:59,010 Sean Aylmer: Australia Bank, Westpac, and ANZ were all off between one 96 00:04:59,099 --> 00:05:02,428 Sean Aylmer: and 1. 5%. In fact, of the top 30 stocks 97 00:05:02,428 --> 00:05:06,570 Sean Aylmer: only pallet maker Brambles finished higher on the day. And 98 00:05:06,570 --> 00:05:08,460 Sean Aylmer: Michael, I found a survey for you. 99 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:09,690 Michael Thompson: Oh yeah, go on. 100 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:16,320 Sean Aylmer: More than one in four Australian investors think bonds will 101 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:17,849 Sean Aylmer: outperform equities this year- 102 00:05:18,210 --> 00:05:18,301 Michael Thompson: All right. 103 00:05:18,301 --> 00:05:22,198 Sean Aylmer: ... but two thirds of them don't really know how 104 00:05:22,199 --> 00:05:22,770 Sean Aylmer: they work. 105 00:05:23,850 --> 00:05:26,100 Michael Thompson: Hang on, why is this aimed at me, Sean? 106 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:28,290 Sean Aylmer: Well, I just thought I'd let you know. So a 107 00:05:28,290 --> 00:05:32,789 Sean Aylmer: survey by Global Manager, the Texas investment managers of 8, 108 00:05:32,790 --> 00:05:36,900 Sean Aylmer: 550 investors from around the world, asked, what happens to 109 00:05:36,900 --> 00:05:41,219 Sean Aylmer: a bond portfolio when interest rates are rising? There are 110 00:05:41,219 --> 00:05:47,190 Sean Aylmer: a bunch of options, of the 400 Australian responses, 63. 5% 111 00:05:47,190 --> 00:05:48,779 Sean Aylmer: said they didn't know. 112 00:05:50,670 --> 00:05:52,109 Michael Thompson: Oh, aren't we an honest bunch? 113 00:05:52,109 --> 00:05:56,069 Sean Aylmer: Aren't we an honest bunch? I've got to say the 114 00:05:56,070 --> 00:05:59,129 Sean Aylmer: rate of I don't knows in Australia, that was the 115 00:05:59,129 --> 00:06:01,620 Sean Aylmer: highest of any country and about double the second- worst 116 00:06:01,620 --> 00:06:05,670 Sean Aylmer: nation, which was the Netherlands. But I thought of you 117 00:06:05,670 --> 00:06:07,229 Sean Aylmer: when I saw this survey, Michael. 118 00:06:07,350 --> 00:06:10,678 Michael Thompson: You know what this sounds like to me, Sean. It 119 00:06:10,678 --> 00:06:13,440 Michael Thompson: sounds like an opportunity, it sounds like an opportunity for 120 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:15,539 Michael Thompson: Fear and Greed to help educate. 121 00:06:16,949 --> 00:06:17,879 Sean Aylmer: People on bonds? 122 00:06:18,089 --> 00:06:21,900 Michael Thompson: Yeah, absolutely. Though I think for the sake of accuracy, 123 00:06:21,900 --> 00:06:24,060 Michael Thompson: we're probably best to leave the education to you and 124 00:06:24,060 --> 00:06:27,479 Michael Thompson: not to me. Otherwise, that lesson could be a little 125 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:30,989 Michael Thompson: bit skinny on detail. International markets, what's going on? 126 00:06:31,349 --> 00:06:34,109 Sean Aylmer: Well, US investors are taking some really big bets that 127 00:06:34,109 --> 00:06:38,070 Sean Aylmer: Wall Street will fall further in coming months. Total US 128 00:06:38,130 --> 00:06:40,740 Sean Aylmer: short interest, which is basically the amount that traders have 129 00:06:40,740 --> 00:06:46,139 Sean Aylmer: spent betting against US equities, exceeded 1 trillion US dollars 130 00:06:46,139 --> 00:06:50,730 Sean Aylmer: this month. That's the highest since April last year. Basically, 131 00:06:50,940 --> 00:06:54,720 Sean Aylmer: it suggests that traders reckoned the S& P 500s 14% rallied 132 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:57,930 Sean Aylmer: this year will run out of steam. Supporting that train 133 00:06:57,930 --> 00:07:01,650 Sean Aylmer: of thought somewhat, are comments by Federal Reserve Chair Jerome 134 00:07:01,650 --> 00:07:04,799 Sean Aylmer: Powell yesterday morning, he said interest rates will need to 135 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:09,330 Sean Aylmer: move higher to reduce US growth and contain inflation. Of 136 00:07:09,330 --> 00:07:11,940 Sean Aylmer: course, last week the Fed paused in its rate hiking 137 00:07:11,940 --> 00:07:16,440 Sean Aylmer: cycle. Also, worth a mention this morning are cryptocurrencies, they've 138 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,350 Sean Aylmer: had a really strong 48 hours or so. Bitcoin jumped 139 00:07:19,350 --> 00:07:23,160 Sean Aylmer: to above 30,000 US dollars a unit. Now, fund management 140 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,790 Sean Aylmer: giant BlackRock said it intends to launch an exchange traded 141 00:07:26,940 --> 00:07:31,530 Sean Aylmer: Bitcoin fund, that bolstered confidence in the digital currency and 142 00:07:31,590 --> 00:07:33,570 Sean Aylmer: its value surged. 143 00:07:34,020 --> 00:07:36,420 Michael Thompson: Oh, there you go. All right, there is a fair 144 00:07:36,420 --> 00:07:39,210 Michael Thompson: bit going on, Sean, some cracking stories coming up. We'll 145 00:07:39,210 --> 00:07:40,410 Michael Thompson: be back in a moment with the rest of the 146 00:07:40,410 --> 00:07:50,040 Michael Thompson: day's business news. Sean, former Prime Minister Scott Morrison, has 147 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:53,370 Michael Thompson: revealed that his controversial move to hide the truth about 148 00:07:53,370 --> 00:07:56,699 Michael Thompson: the AUKUS deal and the axing of France's $ 90 billion 149 00:07:56,910 --> 00:08:02,009 Michael Thompson: submarine contract from President Emmanuel Macron, was not about a 150 00:08:02,009 --> 00:08:05,339 Michael Thompson: lack of trust in the French leader, but actually in 151 00:08:05,369 --> 00:08:07,200 Michael Thompson: the US President Joe Biden. 152 00:08:07,770 --> 00:08:11,130 Sean Aylmer: Yes. So, the surprise revelation made in a soon to 153 00:08:11,130 --> 00:08:14,340 Sean Aylmer: be released book casts a new light on the events 154 00:08:14,340 --> 00:08:18,179 Sean Aylmer: surrounding the announcement of that AUKUS deal back in September 155 00:08:18,179 --> 00:08:23,550 Sean Aylmer: 2021, it was worth $368 billion. According to a report in the Financial Review, 156 00:08:24,390 --> 00:08:29,760 Sean Aylmer: Morrison's maneuvers with Washington and London, which meant that he 157 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:33,660 Sean Aylmer: only told Macron about the AUKUS deal hours before it 158 00:08:33,780 --> 00:08:37,589 Sean Aylmer: was announced, was all about him being worried that Biden 159 00:08:37,590 --> 00:08:40,650 Sean Aylmer: was not locked into the deal until the dotted line 160 00:08:40,708 --> 00:08:45,300 Sean Aylmer: was signed. Morrison's fear was that if Macron had prematurely found out what 161 00:08:45,300 --> 00:08:49,230 Sean Aylmer: Australia was up to, the French leader could have persuaded 162 00:08:49,230 --> 00:08:53,130 Sean Aylmer: Biden to back away from the deal, leaving Canberra empty- 163 00:08:53,130 --> 00:08:57,838 Sean Aylmer: handed. Hence, Morrison says he decided not to tell Macron 164 00:08:58,049 --> 00:08:59,249 Sean Aylmer: until the last moment. 165 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:00,179 Michael Thompson: Oh, scandalous, isn't it? 166 00:09:00,179 --> 00:09:03,660 Sean Aylmer: Scandalous. This, yeah. 167 00:09:04,020 --> 00:09:06,569 Michael Thompson: Oh, I love that story. Who would've thought that... What 168 00:09:06,570 --> 00:09:09,420 Michael Thompson: are we now? 18 months on from when that deal 169 00:09:10,620 --> 00:09:14,309 Michael Thompson: fell apart, that we're still finding out little bits of 170 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:15,420 Michael Thompson: juicy detail? 171 00:09:15,809 --> 00:09:17,399 Sean Aylmer: Oh, interesting, interesting. 172 00:09:18,300 --> 00:09:21,630 Michael Thompson: Speaking of interesting, Sean, BHP boss, Mike Henry says the 173 00:09:21,630 --> 00:09:26,429 Michael Thompson: same job, same pay legislation will be a " productivity killer," 174 00:09:26,639 --> 00:09:30,689 Michael Thompson: which will cost BHP one and a half billion dollars a 175 00:09:30,690 --> 00:09:33,600 Michael Thompson: year and create an economic drag on the nation. 176 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:37,110 Sean Aylmer: Yeah, Mr. Henry said Australia had to address labor productivity 177 00:09:37,110 --> 00:09:40,020 Sean Aylmer: and regulation if it had any hope of competing for 178 00:09:40,020 --> 00:09:42,840 Sean Aylmer: investment on the world stage, adding it would be crazy 179 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:45,479 Sean Aylmer: to try and outdo jurisdictions like the US when it 180 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,270 Sean Aylmer: comes to subsidies. He said Australia needs to be best 181 00:09:48,270 --> 00:09:52,679 Sean Aylmer: in class in terms of ease of doing business, but 182 00:09:52,740 --> 00:09:55,468 Sean Aylmer: the nation is actually going in the wrong direction at the 183 00:09:55,470 --> 00:09:59,160 Sean Aylmer: moment, and told the government to stop doing more harm. 184 00:09:59,460 --> 00:10:02,400 Sean Aylmer: Of course, he's talking about the legislation, which was a 185 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:06,030 Sean Aylmer: labor pre- election promise, it will force employers to pay 186 00:10:06,030 --> 00:10:09,389 Sean Aylmer: labor (inaudible) workers the same as other employees in 187 00:10:09,389 --> 00:10:14,370 Sean Aylmer: the same roles. The proposed legislation has angered employer groups, 188 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:16,708 Sean Aylmer: there's a big campaign running on TV at the moment 189 00:10:16,710 --> 00:10:20,370 Sean Aylmer: I've noticed, there's plenty of debate around defining what same 190 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:23,310 Sean Aylmer: job means. We're going to hear plenty about this one, Michael. 191 00:10:24,389 --> 00:10:28,170 Michael Thompson: Sean, Ford is set to cut 400 jobs from its 192 00:10:28,170 --> 00:10:33,150 Michael Thompson: local workforce, mostly in product development and design. I'm actually 193 00:10:33,150 --> 00:10:35,610 Michael Thompson: a little bit surprised by this, I wasn't aware that 194 00:10:35,610 --> 00:10:38,700 Michael Thompson: Ford still had such a large presence in Australia. 195 00:10:39,179 --> 00:10:42,450 Sean Aylmer: So the three big manufacturers, Holden, Ford, and Toyota don't 196 00:10:42,450 --> 00:10:47,190 Sean Aylmer: build cars in Australia, they ended that in 2016/ 2017. Most 197 00:10:47,190 --> 00:10:51,540 Sean Aylmer: of the manufacturing now is about altering imported cars, but 198 00:10:51,540 --> 00:10:54,179 Sean Aylmer: the actual companies like Ford and that, they still have 199 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:59,969 Sean Aylmer: plenty of people across sales, marketing, other roles... Ford has 200 00:10:59,969 --> 00:11:03,750 Sean Aylmer: about 1800 people in Australia, it's going to reduce jobs, 201 00:11:03,750 --> 00:11:07,650 Sean Aylmer: or as it put it, " a separation program," there's quite 202 00:11:07,650 --> 00:11:08,340 Sean Aylmer: a euphemism. 203 00:11:08,670 --> 00:11:10,770 Michael Thompson: Oh, that's uncomfortable, isn't it? 204 00:11:12,809 --> 00:11:14,730 Sean Aylmer: 400 people are going to lose their jobs, they've got about 205 00:11:14,730 --> 00:11:17,880 Sean Aylmer: 1800 people here. Now, a lot of those job losses 206 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:21,480 Sean Aylmer: will be in Geelong. Overall, if you actually look at 207 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:25,439 Sean Aylmer: the car market in Australia, so beyond manufacturing, sales, servicing, 208 00:11:25,710 --> 00:11:28,530 Sean Aylmer: and then all the flow on retailing and all that, 209 00:11:28,530 --> 00:11:31,650 Sean Aylmer: there's actually quite a few jobs in that sector. In 210 00:11:31,650 --> 00:11:34,559 Sean Aylmer: fact, I think it's about 65, 000 jobs when you really 211 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:37,229 Sean Aylmer: go broadly, so it is still a big employer. And 212 00:11:37,230 --> 00:11:41,729 Sean Aylmer: just before we leave workplace relations, Michael, members of the CFMEU's 213 00:11:41,730 --> 00:11:45,809 Sean Aylmer: Mining and Energy Division have voted overwhelmingly to split from 214 00:11:45,809 --> 00:11:46,920 Sean Aylmer: the controversial union. 215 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:49,470 Michael Thompson: All right. Now, Sean, you can tell we're clearly a 216 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:51,689 Michael Thompson: couple of months away from you taking an overseas trip 217 00:11:51,690 --> 00:11:54,750 Michael Thompson: because here comes some more stories just sneaking into the 218 00:11:54,750 --> 00:11:58,499 Michael Thompson: show, about people traveling overseas and spending habits and whether 219 00:11:58,500 --> 00:12:01,020 Michael Thompson: they use cash or not, because that is exactly what 220 00:12:01,020 --> 00:12:04,230 Michael Thompson: this is, Australians still relying on cash when traveling overseas 221 00:12:04,230 --> 00:12:07,679 Michael Thompson: apparently, because they're worried that cards won't be accepted in 222 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:08,460 Michael Thompson: many places. 223 00:12:08,849 --> 00:12:12,328 Sean Aylmer: A survey of more than 1800 Australians by currency exchange 224 00:12:12,330 --> 00:12:17,369 Sean Aylmer: company, Travelex, found 52% stocked up on cash before flying 225 00:12:17,369 --> 00:12:20,968 Sean Aylmer: abroad in preference to cards. The percentage was even higher 226 00:12:20,970 --> 00:12:24,990 Sean Aylmer: for the under 25 years age group, with 62% choosing 227 00:12:24,990 --> 00:12:28,680 Sean Aylmer: cash over cards, particularly those heading to destinations like Bali 228 00:12:28,889 --> 00:12:32,639 Sean Aylmer: and Thailand, according to a story in The Australian. Travelex 229 00:12:32,639 --> 00:12:36,089 Sean Aylmer: said payment methods in countries are often very domestic, for 230 00:12:36,090 --> 00:12:40,080 Sean Aylmer: example, in China, it's hard sometimes to use MasterCard and 231 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:44,070 Sean Aylmer: Visa because of the popularity of China UnionPay. The most in 232 00:12:44,070 --> 00:12:48,809 Sean Aylmer: demand currency for Australian travelers, Michael, continues to be? You 233 00:12:48,809 --> 00:12:49,830 Sean Aylmer: have to get this right, surely. 234 00:12:50,849 --> 00:12:52,350 Michael Thompson: I would assume it's the US dollar. 235 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:56,670 Sean Aylmer: Yes, followed by the Euro Indonesian rupiah, Japanese yen and 236 00:12:56,670 --> 00:12:59,730 Sean Aylmer: British pound, the US dollar isn't only popular for travelers 237 00:12:59,730 --> 00:13:02,429 Sean Aylmer: heading to North America, but also places like Africa and 238 00:13:02,429 --> 00:13:07,078 Sean Aylmer: even Vietnam. And while exchange rates don't quite dictate traveler's 239 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:12,478 Sean Aylmer: destinations, (inaudible) shows that about 33% of Australians using their 240 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:16,080 Sean Aylmer: site are actively looking at places where the dollar goes 241 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:20,820 Sean Aylmer: further. India, Argentina, Turkey, Japan, they're all examples of that. 242 00:13:20,820 --> 00:13:21,209 Sean Aylmer: So there you go. 243 00:13:22,590 --> 00:13:24,420 Michael Thompson: I live in fear of you putting me on the 244 00:13:24,420 --> 00:13:28,169 Michael Thompson: spot like that, Sean, and especially since you spent the 245 00:13:28,170 --> 00:13:30,420 Michael Thompson: start of the show mocking my lack of knowledge about 246 00:13:30,420 --> 00:13:32,730 Michael Thompson: bonds, and now I'm worried that if I happen to 247 00:13:32,730 --> 00:13:36,240 Michael Thompson: slip up and go, oh, is it the euro? Or 248 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:38,490 Michael Thompson: something like that, then I'll never hear the end of it. 249 00:13:38,849 --> 00:13:42,328 Sean Aylmer: Michael, don't be like that. I've got your back. 250 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:44,730 Michael Thompson: Well, Sean, I will put you on the spot now 251 00:13:44,940 --> 00:13:47,339 Michael Thompson: because you had some homework overnight. 252 00:13:47,969 --> 00:13:48,449 Sean Aylmer: Oh, yeah, yeah. 253 00:13:48,540 --> 00:13:51,210 Michael Thompson: And I think to date, you have never actually done 254 00:13:51,210 --> 00:13:54,689 Michael Thompson: the homework that I have sent you, but I have, 255 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:57,238 Michael Thompson: on good authority, that you have actually done this one. 256 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:01,530 Michael Thompson: Because you weren't sure yesterday whether the serviceability buffers that 257 00:14:01,889 --> 00:14:05,910 Michael Thompson: the banks use to judge whether a borrower can repay, 258 00:14:06,809 --> 00:14:10,110 Michael Thompson: whether they were strict rules or not, because obviously the 259 00:14:10,290 --> 00:14:14,550 Michael Thompson: Commonwealth Bank was changing it against the wishes of APRA. 260 00:14:15,089 --> 00:14:19,349 Sean Aylmer: Yeah, so the short answer is that the serviceability buffers 261 00:14:19,349 --> 00:14:24,508 Sean Aylmer: are guidelines provided by the bank regulator, APRA. They're not 262 00:14:24,510 --> 00:14:27,450 Sean Aylmer: rules, but if you breach them, then APRA will be 263 00:14:27,450 --> 00:14:30,750 Sean Aylmer: watching very, very closely. Now, I got an email from 264 00:14:30,750 --> 00:14:34,170 Sean Aylmer: an old friend of mine yesterday, which actually prompted me 265 00:14:34,170 --> 00:14:37,350 Sean Aylmer: to do this homework. I'm going to call him Wato, 266 00:14:37,980 --> 00:14:40,799 Sean Aylmer: because his surname is Watson, so he was always known 267 00:14:40,799 --> 00:14:43,500 Sean Aylmer: as Wato. Now, we worked together at the Reserve Bank 268 00:14:43,500 --> 00:14:46,290 Sean Aylmer: many years ago, he's been a mortgage broker now for 269 00:14:46,290 --> 00:14:49,680 Sean Aylmer: many years. A very good man, very friendly, very capable 270 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,350 Sean Aylmer: mortgage broker. If you're in the central coast of New South Wales, 271 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:56,190 Sean Aylmer: look up Wato. Anyway, he pointed out that Commonwealth Bank 272 00:14:56,280 --> 00:15:00,990 Sean Aylmer: isn't necessarily leading the market in terms of reducing the 273 00:15:00,990 --> 00:15:05,220 Sean Aylmer: serviceability buffer. He said ANZ changed its rules a few 274 00:15:05,220 --> 00:15:08,250 Sean Aylmer: months ago... Now, it all depends on the specific loan 275 00:15:08,250 --> 00:15:12,120 Sean Aylmer: and the specific individuals, but ANZ changed some of its rules, Westpac's 276 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:15,120 Sean Aylmer: also changed some of its rules, now Commonwealth Bank has 277 00:15:15,210 --> 00:15:19,350 Sean Aylmer: as well. The National Australia Bank and Macquarie tend to 278 00:15:19,379 --> 00:15:21,810 Sean Aylmer: be more conservative, though he pointed out that often it 279 00:15:21,810 --> 00:15:24,810 Sean Aylmer: depends on the type of customer that the lender is trying 280 00:15:24,810 --> 00:15:28,530 Sean Aylmer: to acquire. So, thanks to Wato, I know more about 281 00:15:28,530 --> 00:15:30,990 Sean Aylmer: serviceability buffers and what the banks are doing than I 282 00:15:30,990 --> 00:15:33,989 Sean Aylmer: ever thought possible. Thank you very much. 283 00:15:34,289 --> 00:15:36,361 Michael Thompson: How about you giving Wato a big plug there as well? 284 00:15:36,361 --> 00:15:37,801 Sean Aylmer: Yeah, I did. I did. 285 00:15:37,801 --> 00:15:40,590 Michael Thompson: No, no, that's good. And look, he's in the running 286 00:15:40,590 --> 00:15:42,480 Michael Thompson: for the Most Enthusiastic Advocate, the MEA. 287 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,020 Sean Aylmer: Well, he has been a listener for all three years 288 00:15:46,020 --> 00:15:47,729 Sean Aylmer: that we've been, the full three years that we've been 289 00:15:47,730 --> 00:15:50,700 Sean Aylmer: doing this, and every few months he gets in touch 290 00:15:50,700 --> 00:15:52,500 Sean Aylmer: and says, I like that story about... So in fact, 291 00:15:52,770 --> 00:15:56,490 Sean Aylmer: Wato, you are the MEA today, Most Enthusiastic Advocate. Thank 292 00:15:56,490 --> 00:15:57,120 Sean Aylmer: you very much. 293 00:15:57,330 --> 00:15:57,901 Michael Thompson: Oh wow, it's decided. Okay. 294 00:15:57,901 --> 00:15:58,441 Sean Aylmer: It has been decided. 295 00:16:00,030 --> 00:16:05,070 Michael Thompson: Well, congratulations, Wato. International news time now, Sean. India is 296 00:16:05,070 --> 00:16:08,040 Michael Thompson: gaining plenty of friends as a place to invest with 297 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:10,799 Michael Thompson: Prime Minister Narendra Modi's current visit to the US about 298 00:16:10,799 --> 00:16:13,740 Michael Thompson: much more than just political relations. 299 00:16:14,190 --> 00:16:16,800 Sean Aylmer: It's Modi's first state visit to the US, and top 300 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,500 Sean Aylmer: of the agenda is deepening of defense ties, partnerships and 301 00:16:19,500 --> 00:16:22,710 Sean Aylmer: technology, India's role in the Indo- Pacific, et cetera, et 302 00:16:22,710 --> 00:16:26,699 Sean Aylmer: cetera. You can imagine. However, traditionally India has had strong 303 00:16:26,700 --> 00:16:29,910 Sean Aylmer: relations with Russia, and according to Reuters, is the world's 304 00:16:29,910 --> 00:16:34,140 Sean Aylmer: largest buyer of Russian arms. But as India develops, Modi 305 00:16:34,140 --> 00:16:36,900 Sean Aylmer: has made a point of meeting with business leaders. Remember, 306 00:16:37,140 --> 00:16:39,809 Sean Aylmer: he did it here when he met with Andrew Forrest 307 00:16:39,809 --> 00:16:43,080 Sean Aylmer: and Gina Rinehart a few weeks ago. This trip, Tesla 308 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:45,960 Sean Aylmer: boss, Elon Musk, will meet with Modi, and is likely 309 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:49,050 Sean Aylmer: to announce the large investment in India. He's also meeting 310 00:16:49,050 --> 00:16:52,470 Sean Aylmer: with General Electric, Bridgewater Associates, which is a huge fund 311 00:16:52,470 --> 00:16:56,280 Sean Aylmer: manager over there, expect announcements from those companies as well. 312 00:16:56,429 --> 00:16:59,880 Sean Aylmer: Modi's likely to meet the CEOs of Apple, Google, and 313 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:02,400 Sean Aylmer: Microsoft too, quite the trip. 314 00:17:02,790 --> 00:17:06,749 Michael Thompson: Yeah, sounds like it. And one last one, Sean, Indonesia's 315 00:17:06,750 --> 00:17:10,440 Michael Thompson: president has found a novel way to get people spending 316 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,740 Michael Thompson: more money, create a five- day weekend in a bid 317 00:17:13,740 --> 00:17:15,390 Michael Thompson: to boost travel and consumption. 318 00:17:15,900 --> 00:17:17,609 Sean Aylmer: Genius. Would you agree? 319 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:20,130 Michael Thompson: Yeah, it's easy. Why don't we have a five- day 320 00:17:20,130 --> 00:17:22,468 Michael Thompson: weekend? We'll just have a whole week off, God, we'll 321 00:17:22,469 --> 00:17:23,158 Michael Thompson: spend some money. 322 00:17:23,549 --> 00:17:28,918 Sean Aylmer: President Joko Widodo declared June 28 and 30 as collective 323 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:34,230 Sean Aylmer: leave days around the Eid al- Adha holiday on June 29, effectively 324 00:17:34,230 --> 00:17:38,339 Sean Aylmer: gives Indonesian's a five- day break. The leave days apply 325 00:17:38,340 --> 00:17:41,549 Sean Aylmer: to all civil servants, companies usually follow suit by giving 326 00:17:41,549 --> 00:17:44,760 Sean Aylmer: their employees time off as well. According to Bloomberg, the 327 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,129 Sean Aylmer: stock exchange will be shut on those days. Now, it's 328 00:17:47,130 --> 00:17:50,580 Sean Aylmer: not the first time Widodo turned to uncommon tactics to 329 00:17:50,580 --> 00:17:54,748 Sean Aylmer: drive consumer spending in Indonesia, not long after the government 330 00:17:54,750 --> 00:17:58,439 Sean Aylmer: lifted all virus curbs, he ordered local authorities to approve 331 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:01,648 Sean Aylmer: permits for concerts and sports events to get people going 332 00:18:01,650 --> 00:18:05,250 Sean Aylmer: out more. During the pandemic he urged Indonesians to shop 333 00:18:05,250 --> 00:18:08,220 Sean Aylmer: online. I just think it's a great way to get 334 00:18:08,220 --> 00:18:10,260 Sean Aylmer: people to spend more money, give them holidays. 335 00:18:10,469 --> 00:18:12,420 Michael Thompson: It's a little bit creative, and I don't think too 336 00:18:12,420 --> 00:18:13,800 Michael Thompson: many people would be complaining. 337 00:18:14,070 --> 00:18:15,150 Sean Aylmer: No, I don't think so. 338 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:17,158 Michael Thompson: All right, up next is the Fear and Greed daily 339 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,910 Michael Thompson: interview with Justin Graham, group CEO at M& C Saatchi, 340 00:18:20,910 --> 00:18:22,918 Michael Thompson: one of the big names in the advertising world. 341 00:18:23,190 --> 00:18:25,260 Sean Aylmer: Yeah, sure is. Talk about brands, what's happening in the 342 00:18:25,260 --> 00:18:27,359 Sean Aylmer: advertising world at the moment, great chat. 343 00:18:27,570 --> 00:18:29,490 Michael Thompson: Yes, coming up next in the Fear and Greed playlist 344 00:18:29,490 --> 00:18:33,238 Michael Thompson: on your podcast platform or at fearandgreed. com. au. And 345 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,209 Michael Thompson: also, quick little plug for our weekend edition, which comes 346 00:18:36,209 --> 00:18:39,119 Michael Thompson: out tomorrow as well, Sean. If you haven't tuned into 347 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:42,300 Michael Thompson: the weekend edition, make this weekend the first time you 348 00:18:42,300 --> 00:18:44,850 Michael Thompson: do it, because it is something a little bit different, 349 00:18:44,910 --> 00:18:45,389 Michael Thompson: isn't it? 350 00:18:46,109 --> 00:18:48,418 Sean Aylmer: It is something a little bit different. We have a 351 00:18:48,420 --> 00:18:51,929 Sean Aylmer: competition, you and I, we get an adjudicator, our colleague 352 00:18:51,929 --> 00:18:56,310 Sean Aylmer: Adam Lang, to agree or disagree with one or other 353 00:18:56,310 --> 00:18:58,678 Sean Aylmer: of us, about the biggest story of the week, the 354 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:00,928 Sean Aylmer: sleeper story of the week, the most remarkable story of 355 00:19:00,930 --> 00:19:03,690 Sean Aylmer: the week and our favorite story of the week, and basically just comes 356 00:19:03,929 --> 00:19:06,240 Sean Aylmer: down to a verbal fight between you and I. 357 00:19:06,450 --> 00:19:09,299 Michael Thompson: That's right. And I don't think I have won a 358 00:19:09,299 --> 00:19:10,469 Michael Thompson: week in months. 359 00:19:11,190 --> 00:19:13,110 Sean Aylmer: Oh, I don't know about that, I think you have. 360 00:19:13,290 --> 00:19:15,150 Michael Thompson: No, but I'm the underdog and I'm going into this 361 00:19:15,150 --> 00:19:18,208 Michael Thompson: weekend as the underdog, and it's the title that I 362 00:19:18,210 --> 00:19:20,070 Michael Thompson: like. So just let me have it, Sean. 363 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:20,521 Sean Aylmer: Right. 364 00:19:20,521 --> 00:19:21,928 Michael Thompson: All right, thank you very much and I will see you 365 00:19:21,929 --> 00:19:22,530 Michael Thompson: there tomorrow. 366 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:23,549 Sean Aylmer: See you, Michael. 367 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,879 Michael Thompson: It's Friday, the 23rd of June 2023, make sure you're 368 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,718 Michael Thompson: following the podcast. Join us online on LinkedIn, Instagram, Twitter, and 369 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,600 Michael Thompson: Facebook. To stay up to date on all the business news with Alexa 370 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,960 Michael Thompson: and your Amazon Echo Smart speaker, simply say, Alexa, play 371 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,150 Michael Thompson: the Fear and Greed podcast. To catch the latest episode, 372 00:19:39,150 --> 00:19:41,880 Michael Thompson: you can get yours now at amazon. com. au. I'm 373 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,190 Michael Thompson: Michael Thompson, and that was Fear and Greed. Have a 374 00:19:44,190 --> 00:19:44,550 Michael Thompson: great day.