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Speaker 1: Doctor Lilly and welcome back to the Youth Project.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, Craig.

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Speaker 1: As your day going. It's Friday? Are you stumbling towards

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Speaker 1: the end of the week.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's actually been a really hectic day, more than usual.

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Speaker 2: Normally my Fridays are less hectic, but my husband's been

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Speaker 2: out of town for like a week and a half,

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Speaker 2: so I've been taxiing constantly and just had more things

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Speaker 2: on over the last week and a half than I

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Speaker 2: normally would. So yeah, I'm looking forward to the end

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Speaker 2: of today, except for this part, because this part's fun.

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Speaker 1: Well that's good. That's good. Thanks for coming to have

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Speaker 1: a chat with us. What before we get onto our

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Speaker 1: topic at hand, what stresses you like in the middle

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Speaker 1: of the business in Mayhem? Does that produce anxiety and

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Speaker 1: stress or is it just like just it's I'm just

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Speaker 1: busy and I don't hate it, but it's just boxes

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Speaker 1: that's got to be ticked.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that completely on my attitude on that day.

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Speaker 2: Like sometimes I can, just like everybody, get overly stressed

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Speaker 2: about the reality that I'm in and that just makes

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Speaker 2: everything worse and that causes all kinds of other problems

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Speaker 2: that really aren't necessary, like being touchy or short with

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Speaker 2: my kids or like stuff like that, or like really

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Speaker 2: like road rage. Ye wo wow, I'm very impatient on

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Speaker 2: the road. That's probably the place that I have the most.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, like I'm I'm the least regulated, I

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Speaker 2: think when I'm driving, probably yeah, And my kids make

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Speaker 2: fun of me as well, which I'm glad they make

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Speaker 2: fun of me, and they hopefully won't follow on my example,

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Speaker 2: and I try to work on it. But it's like

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Speaker 2: my safe place to express an anger and annoyance. But

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Speaker 2: like if I have a if I have a better attitude,

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Speaker 2: which is like this is just the way it is,

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Speaker 2: and you know, like I'm like, for instance, for the

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Speaker 2: last week and a half, i know that it's up

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Speaker 2: to me to kind of be in charge of everything,

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Speaker 2: and then I'm going to need to work out dinner

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Speaker 2: every night, and I'm going to have to pick up

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Speaker 2: the kids from wherever they need to be picked up

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Speaker 2: from and drop them off and that's all on me.

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Speaker 2: And if I have an acceptance about that, I don't

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Speaker 2: feel as stressed. I feel like now I'm just doing

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Speaker 2: what I need to do. So I think it just

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Speaker 2: comes down to attitude, doesn't it.

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Speaker 1: Do you ever feel like a little bit Do you

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Speaker 1: ever feel like people analyze you more closely because you're

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Speaker 1: a psychologist and they expect that, rightly or wrongly, that

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Speaker 1: you'd have less issues and you'd be more in control

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Speaker 1: and more evolved, Like I'm not even you. And I

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Speaker 1: feel like people pay a lot of attention to shit

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Speaker 1: with me, especially if I'm out and I'm eeting and

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Speaker 1: someone comes in. People are very interested in what I

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Speaker 1: put in my math, which is hilarious.

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Speaker 2: That is interesting. Yeah, Oh, for sure. There are assumptions made.

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Speaker 2: I think about me, and I think maybe anyone in

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Speaker 2: mental health profession a lot. A lot of the common

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Speaker 2: assumptions are, yeah, that you know, I'm in control and

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Speaker 2: calm all the time. I get that a lot. Oh,

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Speaker 2: you're so calm and you must be like that all

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Speaker 2: and your children must really appreciate that about you, And

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Speaker 2: I'm like, you don't meet my kids. You know, I'm

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Speaker 2: not always calm. I'm like a human and I experienced

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Speaker 2: a whole range of emotions just like everybody else. I

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Speaker 2: think the difference is that I'm less judgmental of myself.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I.

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Speaker 2: Think that that's The other thing that people often assume

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Speaker 2: is that I'm constantly analyzing and judging them because that's

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Speaker 2: their perception of what I do for a living. But

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Speaker 2: that's not That's not what I do for a living. Yes,

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Speaker 2: I actually judge people. I don't judge people like that's

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Speaker 2: the whole point of being a psychologist is to understand people.

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Speaker 2: So if anything, I'm less judgmental, not more. But I'm

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Speaker 2: also again a human, So I have moments where I'm judgy,

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Speaker 2: but no more or less I think than any other

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Speaker 2: person would be. But I have like maybe that extra

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Speaker 2: layer of awareness and insight when I'm doing it. Mm

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Speaker 2: So that I.

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Speaker 1: Used to have this conversation with with my trainers, and

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Speaker 1: I know, well, it's not a very different job. It's

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Speaker 1: not that different. So when you're a trainer, you know,

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Speaker 1: like especially my guys and girls that the men and

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Speaker 1: women that worked for me and I had over the years,

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Speaker 1: I had five hundred of them, so a lot of trainers.

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Speaker 1: And my biggest center, which was up on the Highway

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Speaker 1: in Brighton, I would have on the floor in a

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Speaker 1: busy period we would have thirty trainers on the floor right,

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Speaker 1: So thirty trainers each with A or two, and some

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Speaker 1: of my busy trainers would do regularly fifty sessions a week,

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Speaker 1: which is a lot of PT.

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Speaker 2: That's a lot.

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Speaker 1: And with the PT, apart from you know, lift this,

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Speaker 1: run there, skip that, whatever stretch that there's all the

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Speaker 1: physiology that's going on, but there's the psychology. And even

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Speaker 1: though you know the trainers on the floor are not

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Speaker 1: psychologists or counselors for the most part, they are kind

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Speaker 1: of and not trying to play the role of one either.

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Speaker 1: But the reality is that when you've been like I

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Speaker 1: trained one lady five days a week for sixteen years, right,

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Speaker 1: shout out to Pauline. Now, we had tens of thousands

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Speaker 1: of conversations. I don't know it's tens, but thousands of

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Speaker 1: conversations because you can't only talk about dumb bells, barbells

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Speaker 1: and biceps, right, So of course she'd talk about how

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Speaker 1: she's feeling or how that thing went on the weekend,

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Speaker 1: or her kid or her husband, or her sore back

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Speaker 1: or her menopause or perimen pause or all. So you

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Speaker 1: have a multitude of conversations. And this is true for

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Speaker 1: most personal trainers. And I used to have this conversation

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Speaker 1: with them and I called it their shit threshold. You

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Speaker 1: would probably call it the excellent threshold or performance threshold.

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Speaker 1: But I basically ask them to think about and pay

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Speaker 1: attention to how many sessions they could do per day

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Speaker 1: with a client before it went to shit. In other words,

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Speaker 1: how many sessions can you show up for a client

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Speaker 1: or in your case, a patient and be fully present

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Speaker 1: and be the absolute best version of you for that hour?

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Speaker 1: How many times can you repeat that through the day,

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Speaker 1: Because if you're doing twelve sessions a day, you can't say,

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Speaker 1: to number twelve, listen, I'm exhausted and tired and hungry,

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Speaker 1: and you're my twelfth person. So you're going to get

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Speaker 1: a three out of ten even paying ten out of

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Speaker 1: ten fees.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely agree with you. I feel like it's an

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Speaker 2: ethical issue, yes, and I do limit my sessions to

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Speaker 2: an absolute maximum of six per day. Probably five would

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Speaker 2: be maybe the best number, but six. I feel like

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Speaker 2: I'm still doing good work if I do six. But

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Speaker 2: if I was to do beyond that, I don't think

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Speaker 2: that anyone's going to benefit as much, you know, and

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Speaker 2: yeah I do. I do know other people in my

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Speaker 2: field who see more people than that, and that's often

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Speaker 2: financially motivated. But I don't think it's particularly ethical. And

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Speaker 2: if I was seeing someone I would I would, you know,

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Speaker 2: if I'm the second or the one hundred percent?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, I think I think that just having that

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Speaker 1: awareness around how much of whatever it is, by the

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Speaker 1: way it like with me, it could be study like,

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Speaker 1: how long can I read this paper? And I'm reading

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Speaker 1: this paper and I'm absorbing as much as I can. Well,

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Speaker 1: the answer is not two hours. Yeah, the answer for

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Speaker 1: me used to be three minutes, and then it prepped

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Speaker 1: up to five, and then it crept up, you know,

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Speaker 1: and now it's I don't know, five years down the track.

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Speaker 1: It's probably if I'm being honest, it's probably twenty minutes,

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Speaker 1: maybe thirty on a good day, you know, brand new

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Speaker 1: brain in the morning. But I think knowing that what

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Speaker 1: is your threshold for anything, how much of a particular

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Speaker 1: thing can you do really well before you might need

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Speaker 1: a break, or you might need to do something else

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Speaker 1: for a little while, or you might need to change

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Speaker 1: the way that you're doing it so that the people

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Speaker 1: that you're doing it for or with, if they're not

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Speaker 1: being disadvantaged because your focus or your skill or your

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Speaker 1: attention or whatever has dropped.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I do think you bring up a good

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Speaker 2: point that there are it's about knowing your personal limits,

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Speaker 2: and your personal limits might be different to somebody else's,

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Speaker 2: so yes, maybe you know, some other people might have

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Speaker 2: more stamina and be able to see eight people effectively,

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Speaker 2: whereas I don't think that I could, or you know,

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Speaker 2: even from a day to day perspective, like if you're

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Speaker 2: going through something, you know, like I don't know, something

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Speaker 2: significant in your life, you're not maybe going to be

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Speaker 2: as effective at work, and so maybe then it's up

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Speaker 2: to you to reschedule or you know, like think about

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Speaker 2: reducing the load that day because you know that you're

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Speaker 2: not going to be able to do you know, the

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Speaker 2: work that is expected of you, or that you know

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Speaker 2: the person deserves. So really understanding what your personal limits

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Speaker 2: are and then I think, you know, like putting ethics first,

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Speaker 2: I think is so important. No, I don't think a

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Speaker 2: lot of people think about ethics.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think if you go.

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Speaker 2: From that framework, then you know, then you're going to

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Speaker 2: put yourself in good stay.

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Speaker 1: And I think over the long term, like if you're

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Speaker 1: doing I don't know, twelve shitty sessions a day, or

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Speaker 1: you know, three good sessions, three okay sessions, and then

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Speaker 1: you know you actually do yourself a disadvantage over time,

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Speaker 1: and because that's going to impact on the quality of

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Speaker 1: your work and what people say about you. And you know,

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Speaker 1: it's just that I've got a gig not next week,

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Speaker 1: the week after, and the company that I'm doing it

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Speaker 1: for wanted me to do four hours. Well I'm doing

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Speaker 1: four hours, and I said, because they want to essentially

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Speaker 1: nine to one, you know, with a little break, but

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Speaker 1: nine to one. And I said, how about this, how

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Speaker 1: about we do two hours before lunch and two hours

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Speaker 1: after lunch. And they're like, oh, okay, I go. Can

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Speaker 1: we just because you'll get a better me Like I

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Speaker 1: can do four hours straight, but the last hour you

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Speaker 1: might get seven out of ten me or six out

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Speaker 1: of ten me. But if I can do two hours,

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Speaker 1: I can. I can be flying for two hours and

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Speaker 1: then I don't eat lunch, So I won't eat lunch

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Speaker 1: with them, but I'll go somewhere, chill out, put my

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Speaker 1: feet up, put my head down, listen to some music,

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Speaker 1: relax a bit, go for a walk, suck in some air, recalibrate, regroup,

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Speaker 1: and then start an hour later and I can hit

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Speaker 1: my stride for another two hours, and I just know that.

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Speaker 1: I said to them, look, I can do either, but

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Speaker 1: if you want the best value for your money and

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Speaker 1: the best me, this would be the way to do it.

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Speaker 1: And they're like, great, let's do that. So I think

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Speaker 1: knowing things like that, you know, yeah, and.

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Speaker 2: Then you know they get to make an informed choice.

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Speaker 2: You're managing their expectations. You're being honest, and if they

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Speaker 2: had chosen were actually, we don't have time for that

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Speaker 2: extra hour between. Then you know you've managed their expectations.

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Speaker 2: So they already now help you know what to expect.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure you like seven out of ten still pretty good,

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Speaker 2: So they might have decided like that's good enough. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but you've been honest. I think that's really important.

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Speaker 1: So I wanted to chat to you today about something

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Speaker 1: that I realized. I deal with with people a fair bit,

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Speaker 1: and I'm going to be honest and go, maybe I

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Speaker 1: understand it slightly better than the average person, maybe not,

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Speaker 1: but I definitely don't understand it as well as you.

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Speaker 1: So I'm being a little bit cheeky and selfish because

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Speaker 1: I need you to help me, to help others help me,

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Speaker 1: but I think it's really Yeah. Yeah, well it's you know,

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Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about perfectionism. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: firstly in your terms, in Layman's terms, not necessarily in

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Speaker 1: clinical terms, but can you just explain to us what

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Speaker 1: it is.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a really subject and I don't think

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Speaker 2: it's super straightforward. I think it's actually complicated to explain

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Speaker 2: because I think it's like a mindset or a world

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Speaker 2: view that influences how we think, yep, and behave, and

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Speaker 2: it kind of involves a few kind of different aspects.

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Speaker 2: I think one is just having unrealistic expectations. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: that might be like for yourself or for others. But

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Speaker 2: you're if we're talking about perfectionism, well, we can talk

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Speaker 2: about it as high personal standards.

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Speaker 1: Yes, but as you said, maybe hardh but.

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Speaker 2: Realistic, right, So like unnecessary or unattainable standards for like

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Speaker 2: rigid rules of life that involve you, like having to

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Speaker 2: do things that actually aren't particularly realistic, and.

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Speaker 1: If they're unrealistic and unuttinable, then yousoltely as setting yourself

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Speaker 1: up with disappointment and failure.

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Speaker 2: Well exactly, so, I mean one of you know, perfectionism

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Speaker 2: has a lot of negative consequences because, yes, because of

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Speaker 2: that aspect, because standards won't be met. They might be

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Speaker 2: met sometimes, but most of the time they won't because

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Speaker 2: they're unrealistic in the first place. And so that leads

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Speaker 2: to a lot of harsh, you know, self criticism, and

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Speaker 2: it can have an impact on your mental health and

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Speaker 2: your sense of self worth and how you relate to

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Speaker 2: other people and you know, the work that you do,

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Speaker 2: and it can like alter your behavior quite a bit.

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Speaker 2: Like if you're afraid of making mistakes or see success

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Speaker 2: and failure as kind of this binary, dichotomous concept, then

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Speaker 2: you're probably not going to do a lot of things

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Speaker 2: that could lead to potential failure or mistakes.

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Speaker 1: So why do you think, why do you start to interrupt?

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Speaker 1: Why do you think that some of us? I don't

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Speaker 1: think I'm a perfectionist, but I'm pretty hard on myself,

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Speaker 1: and I you know, I can when I have this

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Speaker 1: dumb habit. I think men definitely do this more than

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Speaker 1: women do. But I could be wrong, but I quantify things.

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Speaker 1: And so Melissa will go, I'll do a gig and

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Speaker 1: on the way home, Melissa, who runs my life, everybody

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Speaker 1: who's my business partner. She'll bring me and she go,

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Speaker 1: how did it go? And she'd been asked me that

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Speaker 1: for fifteen year, fourteen years? Right, So if I go

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Speaker 1: it was a seven, it was a nine, it was

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Speaker 1: a six, she knows what it means, right, And I

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Speaker 1: I don't like to give myself kind of too much

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Speaker 1: of a pump up or too many platitudes because I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I think subconsciously, maybe I'll drop my if

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Speaker 1: I go, oh, yeah, that was a nine and a half,

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Speaker 1: then I'm like, oh, I can't get any better. Well

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Speaker 1: I just peaked, so it's all down ill. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: But I'm a hard task master on me, but not

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Speaker 1: so much on others. I mean, if that makes.

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Speaker 2: Sense, Yeah it does. I think I might be similar.

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Speaker 2: I think my expectations for myself are more than what

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Speaker 2: they are of other people. I think sometimes, like if you,

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Speaker 2: I mean, there are probably lots of reasons for that.

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Speaker 2: One aspect of perfectionism is this kind of over reliance

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Speaker 2: on achievement for self worth.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, yes, that is so good. Yes yeah. So

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Speaker 1: then we get our sense of value and self worth

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Speaker 1: and identity from what we do and create.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, and if we're not achieving to the standard that

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Speaker 2: we are expecting of ourselves. Yes, then we feel unworthy

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Speaker 2: and we feel not good enough. We start fearing other

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Speaker 2: people's judgment as well. And this is the interesting thing

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Speaker 2: about perfectionism is that it's it's perpetuated. It's not just

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Speaker 2: perpetuated by the person like we're a perfectionist will perpetuate

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Speaker 2: it by their own kind of unhealthy mind habits and

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Speaker 2: beliefs and rigid rules for life that come from you

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Speaker 2: know what, you know so many different places, but you know,

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Speaker 2: often they're significant caregivers and experiences in life and all

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Speaker 2: and models and all of that sort of stuff. But

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Speaker 2: it's also often reinforced in society. Right, So if you

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Speaker 2: are achieving, yeah it, and you do well, you're going

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Speaker 2: to get a lot of reinforcement for that, a lot

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Speaker 2: of praise, and that's going to make you feel more

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Speaker 2: worthy as a person. When what we really want, as

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Speaker 2: like a person or a human on this earth is

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Speaker 2: to not view achievement or productivity as your metric for worthiness.

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Speaker 1: It's so hard, though, right, because what you say is true,

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Speaker 1: I agree, But also we are unintentionally taught that, you know,

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Speaker 1: success is about all those external things, what you look like,

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Speaker 1: what you have earn owned do, what people think you

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Speaker 1: your brand, your likes, your comments. How many listeners have

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Speaker 1: you got to your show, Craig, How many people listen

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Speaker 1: to your show? Not like, oh what have you learned

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Speaker 1: doing a podcast? Still it's like how many people listen?

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Speaker 1: How manys do you have? How much money do you make?

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Speaker 1: Like everyone cares about all the fucking metrics. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: including you. Yeah, yeah, but yeah, that is true. But

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Speaker 1: I mean, like when I'm doing it, like right now,

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Speaker 1: I'm just having a conversation. I'm not at all thinking

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Speaker 1: about any of that stuff. I'm like just in the present,

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Speaker 1: having an interesting conversation. But yeah, but we do, we

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Speaker 1: do kind of, I guess, get our sense of self

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Speaker 1: worth and me included, especially when I was younger, from

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Speaker 1: all the stuff that people can see and judge. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I think like one of the helpful things

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Speaker 2: to do is to understand what your rules for life are,

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Speaker 2: what your thoughts and beliefs are and where they come from, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and how they're actually manifesting now, Like, what are the

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Speaker 2: thoughts and thought patterns that you kind of live your

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Speaker 2: life by? What are the underlying beliefs that you have

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Speaker 2: about yourself and other people in the world, and then

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Speaker 2: be open to challenging all of that. Like you just said,

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Speaker 2: like society has this definition of success. It's based on

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Speaker 2: external factors like achievement and money and all of that

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Speaker 2: sort of stuff. And it's like, well, that might be true,

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Speaker 2: but that doesn't have to be your truth. What's your

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Speaker 2: definition of success? Like what is the consequence of buying

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Speaker 2: into this other definition? You know, the definition of your

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Speaker 2: mother and father are the definition of you know, your teacher,

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Speaker 2: or the definition of society in general. Like it, these

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Speaker 2: are all just constructs and they don't don't need to

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Speaker 2: be believed. They can be challenged and you can have

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Speaker 2: your own personal you know, beliefs and thoughts and ideas

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Speaker 2: about what success is. And I think what's important to you?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think it's like putting putting things under

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Speaker 1: the microscope, like these accepted kind of paradigms and ideas

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Speaker 1: where we go our success is and then go, who

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Speaker 1: do I know that successful in inverted commas and also miserable?

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Speaker 2: Go, well, then they're not right exactly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, or successful in inverted commas by whatever standards. But

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Speaker 1: also and I don't mean there's no judgment, but just

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Speaker 1: as an observation, also medicative for anxiety or depression of sleeplessness.

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Speaker 1: But great house, great car, lots of money. And then

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Speaker 1: you go, so maybe, you know, if we're generally I

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Speaker 1: think we would correlate you know, happiness and content and

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Speaker 1: enjoy with success. Then you go, well, maybe on a

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Speaker 1: level they've got it, but as an experience, like from

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Speaker 1: the outside looking insuccessful, but the inside out experience not

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Speaker 1: so much, you know, And yeah.

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Speaker 2: That might be their metric for success, but it doesn't

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Speaker 2: have to be yours.

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Speaker 1: Correct.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So, I mean I think that that's part of

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Speaker 2: the work that I do with a lot of my

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Speaker 2: clients is just helping them understand what their mind habits are,

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Speaker 2: Like what are the thoughts and thought patterns and beliefs

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Speaker 2: that you have that are just automatic, like not even conscious.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes yes, that you just decided to believe, but you

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Speaker 2: didn't decide, actually you just believe. Yeah, and you know,

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Speaker 2: like do you still want to believe those things?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah. I've been writing down all these words which

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Speaker 1: I think relate to or can relate to perfectionism. I'm

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Speaker 1: going to throw them all out at once and then

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Speaker 1: you go wherever you want to go. But I've written

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Speaker 1: and you've mentioned mine, but anxiety, So perfectionism and anxiety,

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Speaker 1: self loathing, fear, O c D, question mark, identity, overthinking.

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Speaker 1: I feel like all of those things can intersect and

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Speaker 1: collide a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, burnout, imposter syndrome. Like there's so many fit

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Speaker 2: eating disorders. Yes, there are a lot of things related

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Speaker 2: to that perfectionistic mindset, and that can be negative consequences.

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Speaker 2: You said OCD as well. It's it's like checking behavior

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Speaker 2: can be a compulsion for people who are perfectionists. Yes,

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Speaker 2: like checking over, Like if you're a perfectionist with school

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Speaker 2: or work, for instance, and you know you like read

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Speaker 2: over and over and over to make sure like every

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Speaker 2: T is crossed, every you know I is dotted, And

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Speaker 2: it can it can be an aspect of OCD or

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Speaker 2: just like a symptom that's related to that disorder. But yes,

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Speaker 2: it absolutely has a number of negative consequences. I think

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Speaker 2: it's also important to not be black and white about

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Speaker 2: perfectionism as well, and to maybe this might be challenging

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Speaker 2: for some people to think about, but what are the

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Speaker 2: functional aspects? For instance, So.

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Speaker 1: Do you mean light the pros.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like, okay, so in like the one I'm thinking about, Like,

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Speaker 2: I don't obviously, as a global mindset, I don't think

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Speaker 2: perfectionism is as pros. However, there might be certain jobs,

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Speaker 2: for instance, require a level of perfectionism that are important

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Speaker 2: or positive. For instance, if you're a surgeon, or if you're.

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Speaker 1: You know, I was thinking about that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so if you're you know, like if you

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Speaker 2: think about being a chef too, like you're cooking and

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Speaker 2: mistakes that you make with food could cause a lot

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Speaker 2: of health problems for people, right or like you don't know,

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Speaker 2: I don't know when this is coming out, but the

403
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Speaker 2: F one Grand Prix is on right now if you're

404
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Speaker 2: I've just watched the whole season seven because I'm not

405
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Speaker 2: even into car racing, but it's on a psychological level,

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Speaker 2: it's really really good. But if you're an F one driver,

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Speaker 2: but you have to have perfectionistic tendencies to be successful, Yes,

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Speaker 2: if you're an elite athlete, you have to have this

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Speaker 2: kind of striving for perfection and this attention to detail

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Speaker 2: and discipline and high quality work and focus, like all

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Speaker 2: of those kinds of positions required that, right.

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Speaker 1: So this is interesting, Yeah, I because you made really

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Speaker 1: higher rousal but low anxiety.

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Speaker 2: Right. So the thing with perfectionism is that normally what

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Speaker 2: happens is you're constantly fearful and anxious of making mistakes

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Speaker 2: and not being perfect, which gets in the way of

417
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Speaker 2: you doing a good job. So you don't want to

418
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Speaker 2: be perfectionistic in that sense. You want to strive to

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Speaker 2: be potentially as perfect as possible, but have that balanced

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Speaker 2: out with a reality acceptance and also like self compassion,

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Speaker 2: because we are all human and all we can do

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Speaker 2: is strive for that, but we know that we can't

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Speaker 2: achieve perfection, we can't be perfect all the time. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: you're absolutely right. I think it's it's that's what I'm saying.

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Speaker 2: It's like a complicated concept, I think, more complex complex,

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Speaker 2: And maybe how it's often presented as this like bad thing, Well,

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Speaker 2: there are aspects of it that mostly it is. Mostly

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Speaker 2: it's very unhelpful. But you can take aspects of it

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Speaker 2: and make it functional without taking the whole, you know,

430
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 2: the whole shebang where you know it's unrealistic and unhelpful

431
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 2: and stressful and anxiety provoking and all of those things.

432
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 1: If one is a really interesting sport because it's like

433
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:51,199
Speaker 1: you need incredible you know, obviously reaction time, spicial awareness, kadia,

434
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 1: vascular fitness, strength, like I need incredibly strong necks because

435
00:27:55,240 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 1: of the j for like mind blowing cognitive skill, focus, attention,

436
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:06,439
Speaker 1: and like I said, arousal. But yeah, without without the

437
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 1: potentially associated anxiety. But then also it lasts for like

438
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 1: forty minutes. It's not like it's a thirty or sixty

439
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 1: second thing. Like they've almost got to be at a

440
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: like a lot of things where you've got to be

441
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:25,439
Speaker 1: at one hundred percent very short, you know, like a

442
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: sprint or something like that. But there's no in F one.

443
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 1: Like even a sport like tennis, which requires speed and

444
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 1: power and focus, we have you have time off between sets,

445
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: as you know because you're a tennis fan, or even

446
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 1: in Australian rules football. Well, the ball's up the other

447
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 1: end of the ground and I'm standing with my hands

448
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 1: on my hips. I don't need to do it. But

449
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,239
Speaker 1: in F one, every second of those forty or so

450
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 1: minutes that they're racing, Yes, it's got to be completely

451
00:28:57,960 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: somewhere in the ballpark of perfection.

452
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 2: Yes, and it's dangerous to not be yes. And also

453
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 2: there's so much psychological pressure just based on the fact

454
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 2: that there's only twenty people in the world who get

455
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 2: to do it, So there's just there's no job security

456
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 2: at all. There really isn't. Like literally like if you

457
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 2: see I mean, I don't know if you've seen the show,

458
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 2: but like if you see them interviewed, you just see

459
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 2: like they might not say it out loud, but the

460
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 2: stress behind their eyes. Yeah, it's the anxieties that it's real,

461
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 2: and it's like they have to deal with that sense

462
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 2: of pressure constantly, not just when they're driving all the time.

463
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: You think Daniel Riccatti is genuinely that lied back. He

464
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 1: seems to be.

465
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 2: Look, I think there's more to him. There's a lot

466
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 2: of complexity. And he said in this most recent series,

467
00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 2: and I'm sorry this is a spoiler for people, but

468
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 2: that you know he got to a stage where he

469
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 2: wasn't sure if it was worth taking the risk that

470
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 2: you need to take in order to be the best,

471
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 2: and you know that's a level of stress and anxiety.

472
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 2: Then that's sometimes I think I think potentially is adaptive, right.

473
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 2: I think as you get older and you have more experiences,

474
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 2: you are more risk averse. Yeah, but I think that

475
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 2: might be a natural condition of aging.

476
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 1: And then or less testosterone in the case of a blog.

477
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 2: Yeah maybe. But also I think that your priorities change,

478
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 2: you know, like it's not just about I'll do anything

479
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 2: to win and I don't care what I'm risking, and

480
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 2: you know how it affects anything else in my life.

481
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 2: It's not that, right, which a lot you know, a

482
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 2: lot of the young men who start enough one that's

483
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 2: that's it, Like, that's the attitude and that's probably what

484
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 2: his was too at the beginning. But when you get

485
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 2: older and you have a fuller life and you've got

486
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 2: other priorities and you might have you know, family and children,

487
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 2: and you know, there's other things that come into play,

488
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 2: then yeah, you're thinking differently and that's going to impact

489
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 2: you know, probably a range of things. It's probably why,

490
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 2: you know, one of the reasons why it's more of

491
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 2: a young man's.

492
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: Yes, you know, don't tell Lewis Hamilton that though.

493
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 2: There's always exceptions.

494
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 1: I feel a little bit sometimes like perfectionism is the

495
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: symptom and fear is the driver. It's like the reason

496
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: the manifestation of you know, perfectionism is driven by fear

497
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 1: of something, fear of failure, fear of embarrassment, fear of

498
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 1: not being accepted, of not being pretty enough, or lean enough,

499
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 1: or rich enough, or successful enough. I feel like fear

500
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: is a big component of it sometimes at least.

501
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 2: Oh definitely, I think that if you if you think

502
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 2: about family of origin, and I mean it's definitely has

503
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 2: a significant impact on whether people develop perfectionistic tendencies. It's

504
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 2: like how they've grown up, what they've been around, Like,

505
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 2: it's not uncommon if you grow up in are in

506
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 2: and around people who are demanding or punitive, and that

507
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 2: might not be in every aspect of life, it might

508
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 2: be in one, Like we can be perfectionistic about one

509
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 2: aspect of our life too. It doesn't have to be

510
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 2: every aspect correct so or And then you know, if

511
00:32:55,680 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 2: you grow up in a family who they don't tolerate

512
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 2: expressions of vulnerability or disappointment, and mistakes aren't couched as

513
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 2: learning experiences, there are things to be ashamed of and

514
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 2: punished for, then of course you're going to grow up

515
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 2: being afraid of showing any weakness or vulnerability. And that

516
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 2: again is like that fear perpetuates the perfectionistic tendencies, and

517
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 2: then anytime you're doing well and you get reinforced for that,

518
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 2: that reinforces the perfectionistic tendencies as well.

519
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 1: So should we treat the fear or should we treat

520
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: the perfectionism? Or am I thinking about it incorrectly?

521
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 2: Well, they are very like your thoughts are linked to

522
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 2: your feelings and behaviors, so I don't think yes, you

523
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,840
Speaker 2: can actually target each You know you can target feelings,

524
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 2: you can target thoughts, you can target behaviors, but you

525
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 2: also recognize that they're all connected. So you target one,

526
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 2: it's going to impact the other the other aspects. So yes,

527
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 2: I think that help A helpful way of dealing with

528
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 2: perfectionism is like a cognitive behavioral therapist would say, yes,

529
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 2: most likely target thoughts first. You target the thoughts and

530
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:38,240
Speaker 2: the beliefs that will impact feelings and behaviors. But sometimes

531
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 2: if distress is too high, then you can't effectively target thoughts.

532
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 2: Your brain's not going to be working particularly well enough

533
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 2: to do that in an effective efficient way, So you

534
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:56,399
Speaker 2: would target feelings. Then how do I reduce the level

535
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:58,919
Speaker 2: of fear and anxiety in this person so that they

536
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 2: are able to think more clearly and challenge and modify

537
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:09,240
Speaker 2: their thoughts more clearly. So, or you could say target

538
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:13,839
Speaker 2: behaviors and you know, doing things like exposure therapy or

539
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 2: behavioral experiments like for instance, with a perfectionistic person, you

540
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 2: might say, go out and make mistakes on purpose, like

541
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 2: to choose an activity. You know, we'd be very specific

542
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:29,399
Speaker 2: about it, like what are some things that you do.

543
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 2: Let's say play tennis, and you know I have to

544
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 2: win every point, okay, Well I want you to like

545
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 2: make an error on purpose, like I want you to

546
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 2: lose on purpose or whatever whatever the experiment is, so

547
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 2: that they can learn, yes, to tolerate the distress of that,

548
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 2: and that it is possible, and that also it's not

549
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:56,319
Speaker 2: really a measure of their self worth, Like people are

550
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 2: still going to be accepting of you even if you

551
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 2: don't win match, for instance.

552
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: And also understanding that if if their approval and acceptance

553
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 1: and love and whatever is contingent upon me achieving some metric,

554
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 1: well that's not anyway.

555
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 2: Right exactly. So that's a really good learning thing learning

556
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 2: aspect as well. So I think like no matter where

557
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 2: you decide to target, yeah, you're going to impact the

558
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 2: other areas and I and you know, for me, when

559
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 2: I'm seeing someone who who is perfectionistic or has fear

560
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 2: and anxiety is like a main component of their issue,

561
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 2: then it's really like knowing that person and where they

562
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:46,879
Speaker 2: might have the most success to start with, Like where

563
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 2: where were we going to have the most impact if we

564
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 2: target feelings, thoughts, or behaviors.

565
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 1: First, So as we wind up and I know there's

566
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 1: no single starting point, like there's no three step plan

567
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 1: for virtually anything. But for someone who's listening and going,

568
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:06,439
Speaker 1: that all makes sense. But I'm a perfectionist and it's

569
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 1: making my life worse, not better. What might what might

570
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 1: I say a starting point be not necessarily a particular strategy,

571
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 1: but just where would we start to address this?

572
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the first thing, like you said, was

573
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 2: just just being aware that it's a problem is really

574
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 2: a step in the right direction. So like, well done.

575
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 2: If that's where you're at and you're like, this is

576
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:35,879
Speaker 2: this is I'm noticing this in myself and I'm seeing

577
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,359
Speaker 2: the negative consequences and I'm aware of it. Great, that's great.

578
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:45,240
Speaker 2: First step. The second thing is understand what the function

579
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 2: of it is for you? Like, what is what I

580
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 2: mean by that is, like we don't normally do things

581
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:00,839
Speaker 2: if there aren't any benefits to it, right, So they

582
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 2: might not be healthy benefits, but they're still benefits, right,

583
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:11,319
Speaker 2: So what are you getting from thinking and behaving in

584
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 2: that way? What are the positive consequences for you? And

585
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 2: then what are the negative consequences? That again, that raises

586
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 2: your level of awareness of what it is for you personally.

587
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 2: And I think the next thing would be to maybe

588
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:39,359
Speaker 2: write down some of your perfectionistic thoughts, like what are

589
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 2: your rules for life that are you know, influencing your

590
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 2: perfection perfectionistic behaviors like that you should be perfect or

591
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 2: else or success means a D and C, or you know,

592
00:38:54,719 --> 00:39:00,080
Speaker 2: whatever they might be, and then have a go. But

593
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 2: like understanding where those beliefs came from? Yeah, who you

594
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 2: that weren't born with them? We all learned. Yeah, we're

595
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 2: all brainwashed right in somewhere, you know, from our experiences

596
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:18,359
Speaker 2: and influences. So where do they come from? How is it? Well,

597
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 2: we've talked about how is it impacting you the positive

598
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 2: and negative consequences? And what can I do to adjust

599
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 2: these thoughts and beliefs to make them more reasonable, realistic, flexible, balanced, adaptive,

600
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 2: so that I reduce the negative consequences and increase the

601
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 2: positive consequences.

602
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 1: I think what's interesting too, is like some of us,

603
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 1: well I think probably all of us at some stage

604
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 1: have maybe it's not absolute perfectionism, but we have these

605
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 1: underlying all be happy when stories, and then the when

606
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 1: arrives and we're like, oh, I'm not happy, Like if

607
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 1: i'd do this or change that or own that or

608
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,839
Speaker 1: earn that or look like that or achieve that, I'll

609
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 1: be happy. And then we get we get to the

610
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 1: top of that mountain and we're like, hmm, I don't

611
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 1: feel like I thought I would feel whatever I thought

612
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 1: was going to happen inside when I did that thing,

613
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:19,839
Speaker 1: outside that external thing, I thought there'd be a corresponding

614
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 1: internal thing which would be very positive. And so I

615
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 1: must be on the wrong mountain or you know. It's like,

616
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 1: no matter where we are, it's not where we want

617
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 1: to be. We keep shifting the goalposts.

618
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that that's a really good point.

619
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 2: I think that because perfectionism is so tied to self worth,

620
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 2: and so what you're actually doing is you're setting these

621
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 2: goals so that you feel worthy, and then you realize

622
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:51,439
Speaker 2: that that isn't making you feel more worthy. So one

623
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 2: of the things that you can also do is define

624
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 2: what that is, what is self worth to you and

625
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 2: challenge that or like even like I've had people do

626
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:09,839
Speaker 2: exercises where I say, well, you know, like you're you're

627
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 2: wanting to be this whatever self worth worthy successful person.

628
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 2: Think about somebody in your life that's like that, or

629
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:19,799
Speaker 2: you know, it could be someone who you don't know

630
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:21,920
Speaker 2: what are their characteristics.

631
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that can.

632
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 2: Be really enlightening for people because I think sometimes you

633
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 2: get people will get stuck on a goal, like a

634
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 2: weight for instance, a weight goal I have to look

635
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 2: a certain way, but when they actually describe somebody they

636
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:40,319
Speaker 2: think has a lot of confidence and self worth, there's

637
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 2: nothing about weight on that list, Like it's not about that.

638
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 2: It's actually about how do I accept myself fully? You know,

639
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:53,839
Speaker 2: no matter what. That's a that's confidence.

640
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 1: And I think I don't know if it's just because

641
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 1: I'm all but like being comfortable going I guess what,

642
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 1: I'm not the best to this and that's okay, Yeah

643
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 1: I fucked that up. That's okay. I'm not as strong

644
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: as I used to be, that's okay. I don't look

645
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 1: like I used to look that's okay, Like it's all okay.

646
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,840
Speaker 1: It's it's like I'm not saying we're giving up or

647
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 1: we're not trying. But oh I did this thing and

648
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 1: I got it wrong. Okay, cool, that's all right. Not

649
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:24,400
Speaker 1: like I'm an idiot. I'm a fucking no, I just

650
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: got it wrong. Did you want to get it wrong? No?

651
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:27,879
Speaker 1: I didn't. Did you try to get it wrong? No,

652
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 1: but you got it wrong. Yeah. Cool. So that means

653
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 1: you're human. That's a pretty big club. You're part of

654
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 1: that club. It's okay, like fucking up, okay, not knowing

655
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:44,359
Speaker 1: things okay, you know, slipping up and being you know,

656
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,759
Speaker 1: doctor Lilly and getting shitty in the car okay, you know,

657
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,320
Speaker 1: snapping at the kids every now and then. Not optimal,

658
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 1: but every now and then as long as there's no

659
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 1: damage done, okay. You know. It's like, oh, like, we

660
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 1: have these ridiculous standards that are essentially unachievable, and in

661
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 1: that pursuing the unachievable one, we never get there. So

662
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 1: that's frustrating. But two, we literally make an emotional and

663
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 1: psychological prison for ourselves because we're perpetually not fulfilled and unhappy.

664
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 1: Because the goal that we've set is literally not within

665
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:19,280
Speaker 1: our grasp.

666
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think it's we're very change focused humans, like, yeah,

667
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 2: I want to be better, do better, feel better, Like

668
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:33,400
Speaker 2: we're always in that. Most of us are always in

669
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 2: that mode rather than balancing that. I'm not saying don't

670
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:41,879
Speaker 2: do those things, like those are adaptive in their own way,

671
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 2: but if you're always there and you're never in. But

672
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 2: I'm accepting myself fully also, like I can accept myself

673
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 2: fully as I am today, and I can also know

674
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:55,800
Speaker 2: that I can do better and feel better and be better.

675
00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 2: But I can do both at the same time. It

676
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 2: doesn't have to be either or Yeah, and it doesn't

677
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:08,760
Speaker 2: have to be like punitive. You know, if I don't

678
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:11,839
Speaker 2: do my best today, that doesn't mean that I'm bad

679
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 2: or wrong or people will hate me or judge me,

680
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 2: or or even if they do, that's not necessarily a

681
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 2: reflection on you. You know, that's that's something they might

682
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:29,319
Speaker 2: need to work on, not not you. So yeah, I

683
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 2: think the balance between acceptance and change is.

684
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:36,800
Speaker 1: Really important always in lightning, Doc, thank you for packing

685
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,839
Speaker 1: that with us. We love that you're a regular now

686
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:43,760
Speaker 1: and I'm getting you on in between your regular gigs,

687
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:47,320
Speaker 1: which is very your, very accommodating, so thank you.

688
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 2: You're very welcome.

689
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:51,439
Speaker 1: How do people find you and follow you and learn

690
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 1: more about you?

691
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 2: Websites A good spot doctor lilliananjad dot com. I've got

692
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 2: some if you go to stuff you there's a lot

693
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 2: of little free resources for you and that will help

694
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 2: with stress and anxiety and sleep and yeah.

695
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:13,440
Speaker 1: Perfect, perfect, Well, thank you again. We love you being

696
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 1: part of you project team. You're great at it. People

697
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 1: love you. We get only good feedback.

698
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:18,839
Speaker 2: That's nice.

699
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,839
Speaker 1: We'll say yeah, see ya bye,