Speaker 1: For the first time Australia has recognized the legal existence
Speaker 1: of Aborigines prior to white settlement. The case is a
Speaker 1: moral victory as well as having great significance for land rights.
Speaker 2: When the High Court handed down its Marbo decision, a
Speaker 2: cracked opened the legal fiction at the heart of the nation.
Speaker 2: Terr nullius was gone.
Speaker 1: European settlement of Australia was based on the premise of
Speaker 1: terror nullius, which basically means no person's land.
Speaker 2: Now, more than two.
Speaker 1: Centuries later, the High Court has recognized there were people
Speaker 1: here and their descendants have rights.
Speaker 2: For John Howard, then in opposition, it provided an opportunity.
Speaker 2: He framed the moment not as a correction but as
Speaker 2: a threat. A story was spun to suburban and regional Australia.
Speaker 2: Your backyard, your lease, your livelihood was suddenly all under threat.
Speaker 3: Today the High Court in Canberra ruled the Merryan people
Speaker 3: are entitled to possession, occupation, use and enjoyment of the island,
Speaker 3: effectively recognizing their native title.
Speaker 2: Then came Wick, a ruling that said native title who
Speaker 2: coexists with past releases, not override them, not seize them,
Speaker 2: but sit alongside them. It was legally cautious but politically explosive,
Speaker 2: and Howard stepped into that space.
Speaker 4: Good evening tonight, I'd like to talk to you about
Speaker 4: striking a bare and decent balance in this very difficult
Speaker 4: debate about Wick or native title.
Speaker 2: You all know, author and political commentator Amy Rymkus has
Speaker 2: spent months tracing the threads of Howard's legacy, not just
Speaker 2: the policies, but the narratives that made them possible.
Speaker 5: So he used the Marbo decision to essentially say that
Speaker 5: white Australia, your rights are under attack. And then there
Speaker 5: was a High Court decision known as Wick and this
Speaker 5: did not change the dial so you know, Indigenous scholars
Speaker 5: and people who custodians of the land. For them, it
Speaker 5: was quite a conservative ruling because it was the status quo.
Speaker 2: It was something they'd known all along.
Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely that you know that their native title existed,
Speaker 5: but it was essentially powerless in the eyes of the law.
Speaker 4: You can't interfere with or bit what would be regarded
Speaker 4: by farmers as a normal day to day operation and
Speaker 4: development of their problem.
Speaker 5: And John Howard took that in the place that Australia
Speaker 5: was at at that particular point with Pauline Hanson running
Speaker 5: around claiming Indigenous people were getting free houses and free
Speaker 5: education and more in Center Link benefits and all of
Speaker 5: this other bullshit. He took that around that same time
Speaker 5: to say that the wik decision essentially meant that about
Speaker 5: seventy percent of Australia was now up for grad apps.
Speaker 4: Let me just show to show your viewers that this
Speaker 4: shows seventy eight percent of the land mass of Australia
Speaker 4: colored brown on this map.
Speaker 5: And he went on national television and he held up
Speaker 5: a map that had been shaded and said, all of
Speaker 5: this is now potentially in doubt.
Speaker 4: Now the Labor Party and the Democrats are effectively saying
Speaker 4: that the Aboriginal people of Australia should have the potential
Speaker 4: right of veto over further development of seventy eight percent
Speaker 4: of the land mass of Australia.
Speaker 5: And it was a huge flash point for Australian cultural
Speaker 5: relations because suddenly people were scared that Indigenous people could
Speaker 5: come and claim their backyard. And it was never true.
Speaker 5: It's not what the High Court said. There was no
Speaker 5: element of truth or respectability in it. But John Howard
Speaker 5: used the resulting Scare campaign, which he was inflaming to
Speaker 5: essentially try to crack down on any type of Indigenous
Speaker 5: reconciliation or growing Indigenous rights beyond what he.
Speaker 6: Was comfortable with.
Speaker 2: For John Howard, the real battle was over the nation's conscience.
Speaker 2: He dismissed what he called the black arm Band view
Speaker 2: of history and described the violence and dispossession of the
Speaker 2: past as mere blemishes on an otherwise proud national story,
Speaker 2: who refused to apologize to the stolen generations, rejecting the
Speaker 2: idea that the nation owed a moral debt. In its place,
Speaker 2: he chose pride over reckoning and ideology over truth. I'm
Speaker 2: Daniel James and you're listening to seven Am. This is
Speaker 2: The Howard Effect, a three part series from seven AM
Speaker 2: marking thirty years since John Howard's assent The Power Episode three,
Speaker 2: Who Belongs?
Speaker 5: So About a year after John Howard's election, he went
Speaker 5: to the Reconciliation Convention, which had been put in place
Speaker 5: while Paul Keating was still Prime Minister.
Speaker 4: Can I introduce to you the Prime Minister of Australia,
Speaker 4: the Honorable John.
Speaker 5: Howard, And he wanted them to know that there was
Speaker 5: a new leader in town, and that this new leader
Speaker 5: had a very different idea about Australia's history and what
Speaker 5: reconciliation actually meant, and what he believed it to mean
Speaker 5: was that white Australia did not have anything to reconcile.
Speaker 4: In facing the realities of the past. However, we must
Speaker 4: not join those who would portray Australia's history since seventeen
Speaker 4: eighty eight as little more than a disgraceful record thought
Speaker 4: of imperialism, exploitation and racism.
Speaker 5: And as the speech went on, Howard began feeding off
Speaker 5: the reaction from his audience and he became even more belligerent.
Speaker 4: Such a portrayal is a gross distortion, and it deliberately
Speaker 4: neglects the overall story of great Australian achievement that is
Speaker 4: there in our history to be told. And such an
Speaker 4: approach will be repudiated by the overwhelming majority of Australians
Speaker 4: who are proud of what this country has achieved, although
Speaker 4: inevitably acknowledging the blemishes in its past history.
Speaker 5: So he essentially described you know, murder, displacement, the forced
Speaker 5: removal of Indigenous people, enslavement as a blemish, and at
Speaker 5: least one hundred delegates in the room for that convention
Speaker 5: turned their backs on John Howard in what was another
Speaker 5: famous moment from that particular period. And John Howard probably
Speaker 5: could not have been happier that they did that, because
Speaker 5: to him, he immediately knew how he could weaponize this
Speaker 5: and show White Australia all of these battlers that he
Speaker 5: had panicked into thinking that their backyards and their homes
Speaker 5: were now at risk of being you know, taken from
Speaker 5: Native title, that Indigenous Australians were being so unreasonable by
Speaker 5: this very common sense approach of just getting on with
Speaker 5: it and just moving on.
Speaker 2: What was he so resistant to the idea of an
Speaker 2: apology to the stolen generations and the overall use of
Speaker 2: language when it came to reconciliation.
Speaker 5: Part of the reason he was so resistant to an
Speaker 5: apology was because he was worried about legal consequences that
Speaker 5: if he had said sorry on behalf of the nation,
Speaker 5: that that would open up the nation to compensation claims.
Speaker 5: And John Howard did not believe that, you know, anyone
Speaker 5: deserved compensation for what had happened with previous generations, so
Speaker 5: he didn't want to say sorry for that. But he
Speaker 5: also didn't want to say sorry because he did not
Speaker 5: believe that modern Australians had to accept responsibility for something
Speaker 5: that the settlers and colonalist did, even if they had
Speaker 5: benefited from that, even if it was their direct ancestors,
Speaker 5: Even if it meant that white Australians were ahead in
Speaker 5: almost every measure of a success, you know, from health
Speaker 5: to monetary to education. That was not the fault of
Speaker 5: a relaxed and comfortable Australia, and so they should be
Speaker 5: able to just move on.
Speaker 4: This black armband view of our past reflects a belief,
Speaker 4: but most Australian history since seventeen eighty eight has been
Speaker 4: little more than a disgraceful story of imperialism, exploitation, racism, sexism,
Speaker 4: and other forms of discrimination.
Speaker 2: When delegates turned their backs on Ing at the Reconciliation Convention,
Speaker 2: it became a defining image, but politically it worked in
Speaker 2: his favor. He cast himself as the voice of common
Speaker 2: sense and stability and his critics as unreasonable and divisive.
Speaker 2: In doing so, he reframed reconciliation as excess and resistance
Speaker 2: to it as patriotism.
Speaker 5: National identity very much became white identity, and we saw that,
Speaker 5: you know, not just in how we treated indigenous Australians,
Speaker 5: but also multiculturalism. He started building the Anzac legacy, the
Speaker 5: White and Zach legacy as being part of Australia's national identity.
Speaker 7: And Zach evokes the individual spirit that is such a
Speaker 7: deep path of our national character, the freedom and individuality
Speaker 7: we were prepared to fight for then and are prepared
Speaker 7: to fight for still.
Speaker 5: He really framed Australia's identity around cultural sporting moments like
Speaker 5: the Australian cricket team and Don Bradman.
Speaker 8: His contribution to Australian sport and Australia in life was math.
Speaker 8: Even my own dealings with him were memorable and the
Speaker 8: ones that I regarded as a real privilege.
Speaker 5: He made Australia Day a celebration of our colonial history.
Speaker 5: So previous to nineteen ninety four, Australia Day wasn't a
Speaker 5: national holiday. There were different holidays in the States, but
Speaker 5: it was usually the Monday or the Friday closest to
Speaker 5: the twenty sixth. But Howard is the reason why suddenly
Speaker 5: everybody had flags waving from their cars and it was
Speaker 5: like this big we go and have a barbecue by
Speaker 5: the beach and we drape ourselves in the Australian flag
Speaker 5: and we talk about how bloody great it is to
Speaker 5: be an Australian, and what he meant by that was
Speaker 5: a white Australian.
Speaker 1: Listen, Australia, is your chance to say thanks for beaches, Lamington, Drives,
Speaker 1: Kylie and our democratic right to give.
Speaker 2: You dead arms.
Speaker 6: And the idea was that if you wanted to partake.
Speaker 5: As being an Australian, no matter what color or ethnicity
Speaker 5: you were, that that is how you celebrated being an Australian.
Speaker 5: You could not acknowledge what was happening for Indigenous Australia,
Speaker 5: You could not acknowledge different cultures. There was one way
Speaker 5: to be an Australian, and Howard made sure that it
Speaker 5: was the dominant way in terms of how Conservatives discussed
Speaker 5: this particular culture.
Speaker 2: War coming up. How nine to eleven supercharged the politics
Speaker 2: of division and reinvigorated or flailing John Howard. Two months
Speaker 2: out from the two thousand and one election, the Coalition
Speaker 2: was trailing in the polls and John Howard was in
Speaker 2: Washington when the plane struck on nine to eleven.
Speaker 3: This justin you were looking at obviously a very disturbing
Speaker 3: live shot there that is the World Trade Center, and
Speaker 3: we have unconfirmed reports this morning.
Speaker 5: That a plane has crashed into one of the towers.
Speaker 2: From his hotel near the White House, he watched the
Speaker 2: towers fall and television and saw smoke rising from the
Speaker 2: Pentagon affet was he a mere five kilometers away. Associated
Speaker 2: prasses reporting that a plane It was a plane that
Speaker 2: crashed out the Pentagon and the Pentagon is being evacuated.
Speaker 2: There is a line in that moment of global shock.
Speaker 2: Howard found the frame that would define the campaign security, borders, strength,
Speaker 2: and the politics of who Australians could trust and who
Speaker 2: they should fear.
Speaker 4: The terrible events of the eleventh of September have cast
Speaker 4: a paul over the civilized world. They've forced all of
Speaker 4: us to think about what we believe in and what
Speaker 4: we stand for, and they oblige in nations such as
Speaker 4: Australia with a great tradition of freedom and commitment to
Speaker 4: the rights of men and women to work with other
Speaker 4: like minded nations.
Speaker 5: Howard used nine to eleven to really turbocharged xenophobia in Australia,
Speaker 5: to really set up border control. All of the terror
Speaker 5: laws that were put in place essentially about controlling people
Speaker 5: and protest and all the rest of it, and he
Speaker 5: essentially used it to start being like Australia is going
Speaker 5: to be strong on its borders.
Speaker 4: National security is therefore about a proper response to terrorism.
Speaker 4: It's also about having a far sighted, strong, well thought
Speaker 4: out defense policy. It is also about having an uncompromising
Speaker 4: view about the fundamental right of this country to protect
Speaker 4: its borders.
Speaker 2: Around the same time came the Tampa.
Speaker 3: When the Tampa first sailed into Australian waters after rescuing
Speaker 3: more than four hundred Muslim asylum seekers, no one could
Speaker 3: have predicted the dramatic sea change ahead.
Speaker 2: How It set the essays to board the Norwegian freighter
Speaker 2: carrying the rescued asylum seekers and stop at docking, and
Speaker 2: the images of armed soldiers storming the deck were beamed
Speaker 2: into Australian lound rooms.
Speaker 9: A diplomatic standoff is continuing over the fate of four
Speaker 9: hundred and thirty eight asylum seekers stranded off Christmas Island,
Speaker 9: both Australia and Indonesia refusing to take them in.
Speaker 2: A month later, asylum seekers were accused of throwing their
Speaker 2: children overboard, a claim later proven false. As Howard tightened
Speaker 2: the border, hardened the language and once again seized control
Speaker 2: of the national story. The dehumanization of those seeking asylum
Speaker 2: in this country has been a feature of our politics
Speaker 2: ever since.
Speaker 5: This was the lie that asylum seekers were deliberately throwing
Speaker 5: their children into the ocean to have Australian authorities except them.
Speaker 4: I don't want in Australian people who would throw their
Speaker 4: own children into the sea.
Speaker 8: I didn't there's.
Speaker 4: Something to mean compatible between somebody who claims to be
Speaker 4: a refugee and somebody who would throw their own child
Speaker 4: into the sea. It offends the natural instinct of protection.
Speaker 5: And that was just told to the Australian people as fact.
Speaker 5: And then it came out after the two thousand and
Speaker 5: four election that the government knew that that wasn't true.
Speaker 6: That the boat that they were.
Speaker 5: On was sinking and taking on water and nobody was
Speaker 5: throwing their children into the ocean. It was the boat
Speaker 5: was sinking.
Speaker 2: It was a claim that went largely unchallenged until the
Speaker 2: Minister for Defense, Peter Reese, sat down for an interview
Speaker 2: with ABC's Virginia Trioldi. He had pictures, he claimed, where
Speaker 2: proof parents were throwing their children overboard.
Speaker 10: Mister Ruth, there's nothing in this photo that indicates these
Speaker 10: people either jumped or were thrown.
Speaker 11: You're now questioning the veracity of what is being said.
Speaker 11: Those photos are produced as evidence of the fact that
Speaker 11: there were people in the water. These photos show, absolutely,
Speaker 11: without question whatsoever, that there were children in the water. Yes,
Speaker 11: let me, let me just answer one thing at a time,
Speaker 11: because people are making exaggerated and very unfair claims.
Speaker 9: To moving a question onto something else.
Speaker 1: The question was always answering.
Speaker 2: Now I'm answering the question. I'm answering it fully.
Speaker 5: And Howard was like, oh, look, I didn't know for
Speaker 5: sure that that was actually what was happening, so people
Speaker 5: kind of believed what they wanted to believe.
Speaker 4: I was subsequently informed in writing that the incident had
Speaker 4: occurred without any qualifications. I had every reason to believe that.
Speaker 4: I still have every reason too, irrespective of what is
Speaker 4: on the video.
Speaker 5: And I don't think people who don't know about it,
Speaker 5: or haven't read about it, or weren't there understand what
Speaker 5: a flashpoint Tampa was when Australia said no to asylum
Speaker 5: seekers wanting to come in on a freighter who had
Speaker 5: rescued them from almost certain death in the we.
Speaker 4: Will decide who comes to this country and the circumstances
Speaker 4: in which they come.
Speaker 5: And then they changed laws to mean that if they
Speaker 5: landed on Christmas Islands or other jurisdictions, that that was
Speaker 5: not Australia.
Speaker 4: Under our interpretation of the international law applicable, it is
Speaker 4: appropriate that they be returned to Indonesia. It's certainly a
Speaker 4: message to the world that we are not a country
Speaker 4: of easy destination.
Speaker 5: And then they created the offshore mandatory detention system where
Speaker 5: Australia turned its back on international obligations and essentially went,
Speaker 5: if you came here and you don't go through our
Speaker 5: proper processes, then we will lock you up indefinitely forever
Speaker 5: on an island that we're paying over a billion dollars for.
Speaker 5: Australia really started finding domestic political currency in turning away
Speaker 5: refuge gees, you know, migrants, asylum seekers in a way
Speaker 5: that they had not been able to do essentially since
Speaker 5: the White Australia policy was put in place. And it
Speaker 5: became like, you know, we needed to question whether Muslims
Speaker 5: and Arab Australians had Australian values, whether they shared you know,
Speaker 5: our common national story and our common values. And it
Speaker 5: became the way that mainstream Australia would treat Muslims and
Speaker 5: anybody who was of Middle Eastern descent.
Speaker 2: In that atmosphere, fear amplified, borders, calcified belonging became policed
Speaker 2: by the commentariat and political class. The national mood was brutal.
Speaker 2: Suspicion had been normalized, difference cast as a threat. It
Speaker 2: was the perfect storm in which something like Crenell look
Speaker 2: good at night. To protect this, those celebrities grievance stressed
Speaker 2: up as patriotism. Violence framed his defense of Australian values
Speaker 2: in a way of life. Hill was he playing to
Speaker 2: when he rejected the notion that the Kronella riots were
Speaker 2: indeed racist.
Speaker 5: He was playing to these battlers. He was playing to
Speaker 5: Howard's Middle Australia. He was playing to the white people
Speaker 5: he wanted to keep relaxed and comfortable. And he was
Speaker 5: playing to migrant communities who felt like they had assimilated
Speaker 5: into Australia and were suddenly watching people come in and
Speaker 5: not have to make the same sacrifices that they did.
Speaker 5: And he was helped along by a labor party that
Speaker 5: was almost completely nobbled by that point in being able
Speaker 5: to push back against these culture wars that Howard was
Speaker 5: pushing along. That they also wouldn't talk about it being
Speaker 5: race related. You know, Howard focused on law and order.
Speaker 4: I do not accept that there is underlying racism in
Speaker 4: this country.
Speaker 5: And Kim Beasley, the labor leader at the time, essentially
Speaker 5: echoed that, and then that became the narrative that this
Speaker 5: was not a race riot, just criminal behavior.
Speaker 8: That's what this is.
Speaker 4: Australian multiculturalism is alive and.
Speaker 5: Will even though people were holding up signs that were
Speaker 5: absolutely racist, and text messages and flyers had gone out
Speaker 5: which which proved that there was racial intent for a
Speaker 5: bunch of people who turned up to Cronulla Beach on
Speaker 5: that day.
Speaker 2: All stoked by people like Alan Jones as well.
Speaker 5: Absolutely, and you know many many in the media.
Speaker 6: At the time.
Speaker 10: Talkback radio has been singled out for much of the blame,
Speaker 10: including Twogb's Alan Jones. By reading out on it some
Speaker 10: of the emails and text messages urging people to quote
Speaker 10: support the leb and wog bashing day.
Speaker 12: I suggest you is to invite one of the biker
Speaker 12: gangs to be present in numbers at Cronella railway station.
Speaker 12: When the Lebanese thugs arrived. We worth the price of
Speaker 12: admision to watch these cowards scurry back onto the train
Speaker 12: for the return trip to their lairs.
Speaker 2: The week before Cronulla, there was a violent incident at
Speaker 2: Sydney's Southern Beaches. Two volunteer surfly sabers were hospitalized after
Speaker 2: being attacked by a group of young men described as
Speaker 2: being of Middle Eastern appearance. The attack was serious, but
Speaker 2: was also isolated. In parts of the media and on
Speaker 2: talkback radio, it was recast as proof of a broader
Speaker 2: cultural threat, with race four grounded and grievance stoked.
Speaker 12: Sitting there in your studio, I wish you could visualize
Speaker 12: North Cronolla Beach. It's not just a few Middle Eastern
Speaker 12: bastards of a weekend.
Speaker 2: Its spous Cronulla's a very long.
Speaker 12: Beach and it's taken to be taken over by these scum.
Speaker 2: By the time crowds gathered at Cronulla, that grievance had
Speaker 2: become weaponized, so it just became.
Speaker 5: A massive flashpoint, which Howard still still to this day,
Speaker 5: does not recognize as racial tensions in Australia don't.
Speaker 4: Go back.
Speaker 5: Even today he does not think that Australia has any
Speaker 5: problems with racism, while also openly saying that he has
Speaker 5: massive problems with multiculturalism, but he's never been comfortable with it.
Speaker 4: Multiculturalism is a concept that I've always had a bit
Speaker 4: of trouble with. I take the view that if people
Speaker 4: were to immigrate with a country, it's on the basis
Speaker 4: that they adopt the values and the practices and the
Speaker 4: standards of that country, and in return, they're entitled to
Speaker 4: have the host citizenry respect.
Speaker 2: His politics when it came to a solemn sech policy
Speaker 2: and immigration was very very successful for him. How did
Speaker 2: it shape our overall politics going forward?
Speaker 5: Well, we're still talking about boat people, which is something
Speaker 5: that you know, John Howard absolutely created and pushed along.
Speaker 5: At the same time that John Howard was demonizing migrants,
Speaker 5: particularly asylum seekers and refugees, he had increased the number
Speaker 5: of temporary migrants to Australia and that's documented.
Speaker 6: And he did that to fill labor shortages.
Speaker 5: And because it's cheaper labor, it's not usually union labor,
Speaker 5: and it also increases consumers. So it ticked all of
Speaker 5: his you know, economic conservative boxes. But he had to
Speaker 5: find a way to still demonize that class, and the
Speaker 5: way that he did it was pointing to the most
Speaker 5: vulnerable in the cohort, refugees and asylum seekers and essentially
Speaker 5: just saying that these people are taking your houses, taking
Speaker 5: your jobs, taking your welfare. And now we have a
Speaker 5: new opposition leader in Angus Taylor who's basing his entire
Speaker 5: premise on wanting to protect Australian values and protect Australia's
Speaker 5: way of life, which again is just a signal to
Speaker 5: people who are worried about migration that Angus Taylor is
Speaker 5: going to start cracking down in line with what Pauline
Speaker 5: Hanson is offering.
Speaker 13: We need an immigration policy that raises the standards, reduces
Speaker 13: the numbers because the standards have been too low and
Speaker 13: the numbers have been too high, and importantly shuts the
Speaker 13: door to people who want to bring hate and violence
Speaker 13: to our shores from another place.
Speaker 2: What Howard understood, perhaps better than any other Australian Prime minister,
Speaker 2: was that politics is about story, who belongs, who threatens,
Speaker 2: who works hard, who gets ahead. He didn't just win elections,
Speaker 2: he redrew the emotional map of the country. We are
Speaker 2: still speaking his language. We still reduce human lives to
Speaker 2: both people. Still treat borders has more urgent than belonging,
Speaker 2: still cast housing, welfare and migration as zero sum contest
Speaker 2: between battlers and outsiders. Even when governments change, the Howard
Speaker 2: frame remains. The question is is there enough courage in
Speaker 2: our political system to move beyond the politics of fear,
Speaker 2: to move beyond the Howard effect.
Speaker 6: It can be done.
Speaker 5: It's just going to take bravery, you know, on behalf
Speaker 5: of Australia's politicians and on behalf of voters who need
Speaker 5: to look a little bit beyond the headlines or what
Speaker 5: they're being fed by politicians who want to try and
Speaker 5: keep them relaxed and comfortable and blaming others, so they're
Speaker 5: not actually looking at where the fault lies. And I
Speaker 5: think when you look at the modern Liberal Party you
Speaker 5: can see the result of John Howard's style of politics.
Speaker 5: John Howard didn't only set the country onto the course
Speaker 5: it is now, he set the Liberal Party onto the
Speaker 5: course that it is now.
Speaker 6: We didn't just lose, we got smashed.
Speaker 13: This is a catastrophic defeat for the Liberal Party.
Speaker 2: They're rough.
Speaker 10: Liberal Party is in post water mode today after an
Speaker 10: extraordinary election.
Speaker 3: Coalition supporters plunged to a record low, while Paul Enhanson's
Speaker 3: One Nation Party is streaming ahead in the post.
Speaker 5: And voters are turning against the Liberal Party, but they're
Speaker 5: turning towards a bigger disruption in One Nation and a
Speaker 5: lot of that is because they feel failed by the
Speaker 5: political system and they're not being offered not only the
Speaker 5: hope but the material changes that would give them hope
Speaker 5: that the future is going to be better. So I
Speaker 5: think for it to change, we need to actually reconcile
Speaker 5: what John Howard did to Australia and then have politicians
Speaker 5: that are brave enough to break that mold.
Speaker 6: And labor has the power to change all of that.
Speaker 5: Voters have the power to change that by pushing their
Speaker 5: government on these very key basic necessities of housing, addressing inequality,
Speaker 5: addressing the fact that our public safety nets in health
Speaker 5: and education and social security have been completely destroyed by
Speaker 5: the last thirty years of baked in Howard policies. But
Speaker 5: I think we're still afraid of that change and until
Speaker 5: we actually just go enough, there is another way, and
Speaker 5: our politicians are brave enough to push forward in that direction,
Speaker 5: I think we're going to be living with the consequences
Speaker 5: of John Howard's Australia for quite some time.
Speaker 2: Amy, thanks for your time and thank you for having me.
Speaker 2: This special series from seven am hosted and written by
Speaker 2: Me Daniel James, and featured Amory Makus. It was produced
Speaker 2: by Chris Dangate, Zoltan Vecchio and Crystal Color. Mixing was
Speaker 2: by Travis Evans, with additional support from Atticus Basto and
Speaker 2: Ariel Richards. Original music was written and performed by zalt
Speaker 2: Vecho