WEBVTT - The men who survived Kinchela Boys Home

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Ruby Jones and you're listening to seven AM. This week,

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<v Speaker 1>devastating figures were released which show the overrepresentation of Aboriginal

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<v Speaker 1>and Torres RD Islander children in out of home care

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<v Speaker 1>and the child protection system. It's damning evidence that not

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<v Speaker 1>enough has changed since the Stolen Generations. Last year, we

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<v Speaker 1>published a story about the long shadow cast by a

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<v Speaker 1>policy of child removal centered on the notorious Kinchella Boy's

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<v Speaker 1>Home in New South Wales. It's a place that holds

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<v Speaker 1>painful memories for the many survivors of the Stolen Generations

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<v Speaker 1>who went through its doors. Hundreds of Indigenous boys were

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<v Speaker 1>sent there and subjected to torture, abuse and reprogramming in

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<v Speaker 1>order to assimilate them into white society. Now, the survivors

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<v Speaker 1>and their families want to take ownership of the site

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<v Speaker 1>to make it a place of healing for future generations.

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<v Speaker 1>Today Gernacai and Watchabalic writer and contributor to The Saturday Paper,

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<v Speaker 1>Ben Abertangelo on the enduring legacy of the Kinchella Boys

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<v Speaker 1>Home and just a Warning. Today's episode discusses abuse and suicide.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Sunday, December fourteenth. This episode was originally published in

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<v Speaker 1>October twenty twenty four. So then you've been looking into

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<v Speaker 1>this home, this institution where original children were sent for decades.

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<v Speaker 1>It's called the Kinchilla Boys Home. Tell me about the place.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, Kinchillar is known as one of the most notorious homes.

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<v Speaker 2>It was open in the nineteen twenties and closed down

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<v Speaker 2>in the early nineteen seventies. Young boys from across New

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<v Speaker 2>South Wales predominantly were taken from their families and institutionalized

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<v Speaker 2>at that home and just went through some of the

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<v Speaker 2>most torturous years of their lives. So the children were

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<v Speaker 2>as young as six or seven up to fourteen, fifteen,

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<v Speaker 2>sixteen years of age, and you know, across varying periods

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<v Speaker 2>of time, were just subject to humiliation, to torture, to slavery,

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<v Speaker 2>to sexual assault, to rapes, to indentioned servitude, to just

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<v Speaker 2>the most brutal reprogramming and re engineering that I think

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<v Speaker 2>this country has seen. So yeah, it's a really tough

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<v Speaker 2>story to cover. There's now only forty nine of the

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<v Speaker 2>six hundred survivors remaining. Four of those uncles have passed

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<v Speaker 2>in the last four to six months, so there's a

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<v Speaker 2>real sense of urgency around the fact that a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of these young people who are now old that went

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<v Speaker 2>through that home, you know, are now coming towards.

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<v Speaker 3>The end of their lives.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So these boys who made it out, who survived

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<v Speaker 1>that torture that you described, can you tell me more

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<v Speaker 1>about them, about their stories.

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<v Speaker 2>I was really humbled to get the opportunity to hold

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<v Speaker 2>the stories of people like Uncle Roger Pigeon Jarrett. Can

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<v Speaker 2>you just start with me by just telling me your

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<v Speaker 2>name in full, Rotch Jarrett. He speaks about June twenty five,

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen fifty eight, when he was merely eleven years old,

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<v Speaker 2>and he speaks with just vivid clarity about the day

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<v Speaker 2>that the big black English riley rolled onto the mission,

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<v Speaker 2>and how the sergeant stepped out of the car, came

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<v Speaker 2>up to the house, sat his mother down on the

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<v Speaker 2>verandah outside of their little home. I shot mom down

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<v Speaker 2>there and just said to her, missus Jarrett, if you

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<v Speaker 2>signed these papers, your kids will return within twelve months.

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<v Speaker 2>Uncle Roger's mother didn't have a formal education. She knew

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<v Speaker 2>that she was confronted with an ultimatum, and within the

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<v Speaker 2>confluence of those circumstances, she signed those papers. Now, Uncle

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<v Speaker 2>Roger reflects on you know, only being eleven years of age.

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<v Speaker 3>His other brother was only six, and he.

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<v Speaker 2>Speaks again with just real clarity about the moment that

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<v Speaker 2>the sergeant who was acting on behalf of the Aboriginal

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<v Speaker 2>Welfare Board grabbed him. Was going so he says that,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, as they grabbed him, he clutched his mother's dress,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, the sergeant just was wrangling like a

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<v Speaker 2>piece of meat.

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<v Speaker 4>A mom was crying. After this day, I still three

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<v Speaker 4>with on my arm.

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<v Speaker 2>He said that the sergeant basically grabbed him, dragged him

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<v Speaker 2>to the car and threw him in the back. And

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<v Speaker 2>you know, he can still remember sliding across those seats,

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<v Speaker 2>hitting his head on the window wiper and basically splitting

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<v Speaker 2>it open. And it was from there, within a matter

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<v Speaker 2>of hour that he was at the front gates of

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<v Speaker 2>the Kinchler Boys Home. Another survivor that I was fortunate

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<v Speaker 2>to sit with was Uncle Richard Bare Campbell, and he

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<v Speaker 2>was only eight or nine years old when he was

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<v Speaker 2>stolen from his family in nineteen sixty six.

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<v Speaker 4>My name is Richard Campbell. I'm a combat that gutty

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<v Speaker 4>man from the back Obacker and the the KBSY bellies

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<v Speaker 4>off the north coast, so we had their buckerheads cos Harbor.

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<v Speaker 2>But his first memory of Kinchler was being wrestled out

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<v Speaker 2>of the car and being separated from his three young sisters.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, he tells this really graphic story of

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<v Speaker 2>you know, his his sister's screaming in the car and

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<v Speaker 2>you know him being at the gates of Kinchler and

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<v Speaker 2>the car driving off.

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<v Speaker 4>And then we can eat he screaming as the car

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<v Speaker 4>was going around the corner away from kitchen. We can

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<v Speaker 4>still hear him screaming, you don't fade away in the distance.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, that was his first and most enduring memory

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<v Speaker 2>and Kinchula because it was also the last time that

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<v Speaker 2>he saw his sister in approximately twenty years.

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<v Speaker 1>And so these men, well they were children at the

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<v Speaker 1>time they were taken from their families, taken to Kinchilla.

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<v Speaker 1>So what did they tell you about what happened next,

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<v Speaker 1>about what their life was like in the home.

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<v Speaker 2>I think the first really significant point is that, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>Aboriginal families were stolen from their country and rounded up

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<v Speaker 2>onto missions, and these young boys were then secondarily from that,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, stolen from their communities. So they were stolen

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<v Speaker 2>from their country, stolen from their communities, and sent to

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<v Speaker 2>these institutions where they were then stolen from themselves. Uncle

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<v Speaker 2>Roger Pigeon Jarrett basically says that, you know, the moment

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<v Speaker 2>that you get to those gates is where you lose

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<v Speaker 2>your identity, your culture, and your name. Now, for him,

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<v Speaker 2>when he walked in those gates, he was no longer

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<v Speaker 2>Roger Jarrett.

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<v Speaker 3>That's when he became number twelve.

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<v Speaker 2>And it was the same for Uncle Richard, who as

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<v Speaker 2>soon as he walks into the gates, he says, the

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<v Speaker 2>first thing that happened to him and his brothers was

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<v Speaker 2>that they just started getting bashed.

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<v Speaker 4>Just okay, Richard cambll anymore, you are there number twenty

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<v Speaker 4>eight to be older brother bad You are not Robert

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<v Speaker 4>Campbell as well, you number twenty nine.

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<v Speaker 2>They spoke about the minutes feeling like hours, and the

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<v Speaker 2>hours feeling like days.

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<v Speaker 3>The boys were humiliated, they.

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<v Speaker 2>Were beaten, they were sexually assaulted and raped, they were

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<v Speaker 2>staff they're enslaved, they're indoctrinated and re engineered.

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<v Speaker 4>You know.

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<v Speaker 2>Uncle Witty Walsh, who is another one of the survivors

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<v Speaker 2>that I spoke to, you know, reflected on the fact

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<v Speaker 2>that boys would go missing that you know, they were

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<v Speaker 2>classified as flora and fauna at the time. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>in one of the testimonies from Uncle Witty he spoke

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<v Speaker 2>about basically the ex army men that ran the site,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, would have animals that had names, but for

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<v Speaker 2>the young Aboriginal boys that were on the site that

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<v Speaker 2>were just subject to the most barbaric of treatment, they

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<v Speaker 2>had numbers, right.

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<v Speaker 1>And so then when survivors say that some of these

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<v Speaker 1>boys went missing, do we know what happened to them?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, we know that.

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<v Speaker 2>Recently there was a report from experts who used ground

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<v Speaker 2>penetrating radars at the homes and essentially what they found

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<v Speaker 2>were readings consistent with clandestine burials in other places around

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<v Speaker 2>the world and at Kinchla. Now there's approximately nine sites

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<v Speaker 2>that could hold graves of young boys.

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<v Speaker 3>Now that report has.

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<v Speaker 2>Been tabled with the Minister, the New South Wales Premier

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<v Speaker 2>Chris Means and his Minister for Abridginal Affairs and Treaty,

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<v Speaker 2>David Harris, have committed to further investigations at the site

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<v Speaker 2>and to engage further specialists to explore in full, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the really serious question marks that are lingering over the place.

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<v Speaker 2>But when I speak to the uncles around whether or

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<v Speaker 2>not they are surprised about the prospect of their being

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<v Speaker 2>potential burial grounds. There's not so life at Kinchla. From

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<v Speaker 2>listening to these stories, the one thing that was a

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<v Speaker 2>constant in all of these testimonies was that terror was

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<v Speaker 2>just there at every moment of the day.

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<v Speaker 1>After the break, the survivors on a mission to reclaim

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<v Speaker 1>the Conchilla Boys Home, so ben Kinchilla Boys Home. It

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<v Speaker 1>closed down in nineteen seventy. Hundreds of boys were taken there.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you tell me a bit about what life was

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<v Speaker 1>like for them once they were old enough to be

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<v Speaker 1>able to leave.

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<v Speaker 2>I think Uncle Richard summarized it really aptly by saying that,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, most of he and the other survivors were

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<v Speaker 2>basically on a suicide journey having stepped out of there.

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<v Speaker 2>Now today there's only forty nine survivors remaining. Four survivors

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<v Speaker 2>have passed away in the previous four to six months.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, we really aren't getting towards that later chapter

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<v Speaker 2>of the Stolen Generation survivors' lives, but the impacts from

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<v Speaker 2>Kinchla have permeated every single aspect of these young boys' lives.

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<v Speaker 2>Uncle Richard spoke about the story of him sort of

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<v Speaker 2>being thrusted out of the gates of Kinchula and back

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<v Speaker 2>into society thinking that he was a white fella. He

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<v Speaker 2>speaks to how powerful the indoctrination, the engineering was that

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<v Speaker 2>he was subjected to. But at the same time, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>large sections of the Aboriginal community also turned their back

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<v Speaker 2>on him because they didn't see these boys that went

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<v Speaker 2>through Kinchulla as one of them anymore. So they were

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<v Speaker 2>stuck in this no man's land, not belonging anywhere, and

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<v Speaker 2>just with these really deep wounds and no support to

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<v Speaker 2>mend them. For Uncle Roger Jarrett, you know, he spoke

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<v Speaker 2>about going out into the world and just not knowing

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<v Speaker 2>how to love.

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<v Speaker 3>You know.

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<v Speaker 2>His words are that when you come out, you've got

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<v Speaker 2>no idea of what love is. You can spell it,

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<v Speaker 2>you can write it, but to feel what love is,

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<v Speaker 2>it's been killed. Uncle Richard has had multiple kids to

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<v Speaker 2>multiple women. He speaks about not having strong relationships with

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<v Speaker 2>his children, about his children having challenges with substance abuse.

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<v Speaker 2>For Uncle Witty Walsh talks about, you know, his children

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<v Speaker 2>being removed from him. His grandchildren being removed from his

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<v Speaker 2>sons and daughters.

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<v Speaker 3>I put the.

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<v Speaker 4>Gun in my mouth, but I was about I think

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<v Speaker 4>it was about nointy at the time when I was

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<v Speaker 4>going to shoot myself because they took us away from

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<v Speaker 4>the woman that I married.

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<v Speaker 2>We've seen Kinchler actors this really fractious moment in these

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<v Speaker 2>people's lives, and that has continued to reverberate every day,

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<v Speaker 2>every week and every generation. We know that the number

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<v Speaker 2>of First Nations children being removed from their families.

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<v Speaker 3>Today is at record rates.

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<v Speaker 2>The projections are for the years to come that those

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<v Speaker 2>rates will continue to increase. They currently make up forty

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<v Speaker 2>three point seven percent of the children in out of

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<v Speaker 2>home care. We know that, you know, the pipeline of

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<v Speaker 2>children from out of home care into youth juvenile detention

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<v Speaker 2>centers is also ever expanding. So in the uncle's eyes, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>it's what's old remains new.

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<v Speaker 3>And so been.

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<v Speaker 1>One hundred years on from when Kinchella was opened. Some

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<v Speaker 1>of the survivors want to try and reclaim that site.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you tell me a bit about that, because I

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<v Speaker 1>imagine that it would be complicated trying to work out

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<v Speaker 1>how you might mark a place where all of these

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<v Speaker 1>horrors happened to you in a way that feels right.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a great point, Ruby, And the first hurdle has

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<v Speaker 2>been the survivors being able to reimagine what the site

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<v Speaker 2>could be, that the place that was a catalyst for

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<v Speaker 2>so much harm and heartbreak could be actually repositioned.

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<v Speaker 3>As a site for healing.

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<v Speaker 2>So that first hurdle was one of the hardest, I

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<v Speaker 2>think for many of the now men to overcome. The

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<v Speaker 2>second hurdle has been negotiating a just timely and fair

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<v Speaker 2>agreement with the KEMPSI Local Aboriginal Land Council, who is

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<v Speaker 2>the owner of the Kinchula site. Now, a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>the survivors believe that their own community continues to turn

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<v Speaker 2>their back on them, and that that is playing out

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<v Speaker 2>within these negotiations. You know, Uncle Richard spoke to me

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<v Speaker 2>about the fact that when they first endeavored to put

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<v Speaker 2>an offer forward to reclaim ownership of the land, a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of people within the community saw that as a

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<v Speaker 2>land grab and saw that the uncles were trying to

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<v Speaker 2>take land from other members within the community. And I

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<v Speaker 2>suppose what's really important from their perspective at what I've

0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:49.920
<v Speaker 2>captured is that ownership matters absolutely, but it's an endeavor

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<v Speaker 2>to have custodianship over the site. It's not ownership in

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<v Speaker 2>as they would say, Whitefellow Way, its ownership in Blackfellow Way,

0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:04.479
<v Speaker 2>and having that it means that they cannot only repair themselves,

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<v Speaker 2>but importantly ensure that that site remains standing until the

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<v Speaker 2>end of time so people will never forget what went

0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:17.160
<v Speaker 2>down there, and as importantly to ensure that it never

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<v Speaker 2>happens again.

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<v Speaker 1>Ben, thank you so much for your time.

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<v Speaker 3>Appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks Ruby, thanks for listening to this episode of seven Am.

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<v Speaker 1>As summer approaches, we've also been getting ready to share

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<v Speaker 1>some new episodes with you at our favorite books, music

0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:04.800
<v Speaker 1>and podcasts of the year. Our team is busy working

0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:07.440
<v Speaker 1>away on those episodes, which we look forward to sharing

0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:09.800
<v Speaker 1>with you soon. We're also starting to think about the

0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:12.080
<v Speaker 1>year ahead, and we'd love to hear from you about

0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:14.800
<v Speaker 1>the topics you want more of, about the questions you'd

0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:17.360
<v Speaker 1>like to have us explore, and about your favorite guests

0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:21.080
<v Speaker 1>where all is so, please reach out with your feedback.

0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:24.200
<v Speaker 1>You can email us at seven AM podcast at Solstice

0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:28.160
<v Speaker 1>Media dot com dot au with feedback, ideas or story tips.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll be back tomorrow, see that