1
00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:04,680
Speaker 1: Listeners are advised that this podcast series Bromwan contains coarse

2
00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:08,840
Speaker 1: language and adult themes. This podcast series is brought to

3
00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:34,600
Speaker 1: you by me Headley Thomas and The Australian.

4
00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,479
Speaker 2: I met Jody and she was adorable and needed a

5
00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:47,319
Speaker 2: mother who loved her, so everything was going to work

6
00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,639
Speaker 2: out well. I would look after Jody in Crystal and

7
00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:52,519
Speaker 2: he would be the perfect husband.

8
00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:57,240
Speaker 1: At the beginning of their relationship, it must have seemed

9
00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:03,040
Speaker 1: an ideal match. John sir, fit handsome single dad aged thirty,

10
00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:07,880
Speaker 1: Bromwin a strikingly attractive, slender and deeply committed single mum

11
00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:12,160
Speaker 1: of twenty three. They had shared interest from having grown

12
00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:16,039
Speaker 1: up in the same area of Sydney. Many rusted on

13
00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:21,000
Speaker 1: residents say that it's God's country. They insist Kronella's beaches

14
00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:24,760
Speaker 1: are better and the lifestyle slower, easier than in Sydney's

15
00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:30,080
Speaker 1: eastern suburbs. John's daughter Jodi, was twelve and being raised

16
00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:33,399
Speaker 1: largely by her grandparents in the Shire when Bromwyn and

17
00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:37,600
Speaker 1: John got together in nineteen eighty five. At that time,

18
00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:41,959
Speaker 1: Bronwyn was a full time mum to Crystal, age two.

19
00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,600
Speaker 2: We moved to South Crenella behind a milkbar. John moved in.

20
00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,000
Speaker 2: I found out I was pregnant and we married a

21
00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:50,160
Speaker 2: few months before Lauren was born in Ballina.

22
00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,960
Speaker 1: Broman's brother Andy Reid, has taken a day off work

23
00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,000
Speaker 1: as a construction manager to meet me for several hours

24
00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:02,520
Speaker 1: of recorded interviews. In his his wife Michelle is by

25
00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:06,559
Speaker 1: his side. Andy and Michelle met on the Famed Hill

26
00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:09,920
Speaker 1: near the old Doug Walters stand at the Sydney Cricket Ground.

27
00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:14,880
Speaker 1: Andy has kept some history about his older sister Bottled Up.

28
00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:18,480
Speaker 1: He confides that he has felt guilty for many years

29
00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:21,720
Speaker 1: over things he had done and not done for Bromwin

30
00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:26,080
Speaker 1: when she needed help. Has she been the big sister

31
00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,480
Speaker 1: who's been more inclined to look after you or vice versa.

32
00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,079
Speaker 3: Oh, she was always there for me and always there

33
00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:33,360
Speaker 3: for me.

34
00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,800
Speaker 4: I moved out of home at a reason early age

35
00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,320
Speaker 4: New Year Zoo. When I was nineteen. I got blown

36
00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,600
Speaker 4: up by a bonfire. Someone had doused the buddy thinking

37
00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:45,480
Speaker 4: petrol and not told me and asked for someone to

38
00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:47,560
Speaker 4: light the bonfire, and I lit it and woke up.

39
00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:49,960
Speaker 4: She went and up I went with it. I stayed

40
00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:52,959
Speaker 4: with Braun for a couple of weeks. She was nursing

41
00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:56,519
Speaker 4: me back to health and changing bandages. And she was

42
00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:00,320
Speaker 4: very nurturing, always part of my life. And she need

43
00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:04,800
Speaker 4: a hand to. Dad used to call a concert pitch

44
00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:08,600
Speaker 4: a highly strung needed support.

45
00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:11,280
Speaker 3: Loved someone to be there for her as well. But

46
00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:12,880
Speaker 3: she was also there for you.

47
00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:17,160
Speaker 1: Had you heard Roman in the past saying, I can't

48
00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:18,600
Speaker 1: handle this, the kids are just.

49
00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:20,560
Speaker 5: Driving me crazy and I've got to get away.

50
00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:24,560
Speaker 3: Never. Never, Roman was just so dating. Those kids were

51
00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:25,000
Speaker 3: her life.

52
00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:27,200
Speaker 5: Did she ever take a break away from a children?

53
00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:28,120
Speaker 6: No.

54
00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:29,519
Speaker 3: Never.

55
00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,160
Speaker 4: To give you a little bit of insight into Bromwin's

56
00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:41,280
Speaker 4: motherly nature, Jodie was actually raised by John Winfield's parents,

57
00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:45,200
Speaker 4: so Bromwin brought and asked John to bring Jodie out

58
00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:47,920
Speaker 4: of that environment into their environment to be part of

59
00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,240
Speaker 4: the family. The first time she lived in a family

60
00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:53,720
Speaker 4: or environment was at the little house down at South

61
00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,760
Speaker 4: Kronola where Jadie had actually moved in with John and

62
00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:59,640
Speaker 4: Bromwin and moved into the house down there.

63
00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:02,520
Speaker 3: That's the type of person Bromin was.

64
00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:07,160
Speaker 1: Michelle recalls meeting Bromwin at the time of the birth

65
00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:08,840
Speaker 1: of Lauren, her second daughter.

66
00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:11,920
Speaker 7: We got on will Yeah, she was great. She was

67
00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:17,920
Speaker 7: a lovely person, a beautiful mum, spoke kindly to the kids,

68
00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:23,880
Speaker 7: was caring, looked after them. They were always beautifully presented.

69
00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:28,440
Speaker 1: And how would you describe the relationship between her and

70
00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:30,200
Speaker 1: John at that time?

71
00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:33,520
Speaker 7: From what you saw, John was the type of person

72
00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:37,440
Speaker 7: who was always he was doing his own thing. He

73
00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:42,640
Speaker 7: often went surfing, did that a lot. If we were there,

74
00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:46,279
Speaker 7: he'd come in, he'd say the hi, how are you

75
00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:50,159
Speaker 7: kind of thing? Nothing in depth. I don't remember anything

76
00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:54,400
Speaker 7: in depth with John, and they need zay on going

77
00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:57,400
Speaker 7: for a surf. He was always one of those in

78
00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:59,159
Speaker 7: and out, Hi, how are you going?

79
00:04:59,279 --> 00:04:59,479
Speaker 6: Yeah?

80
00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:04,120
Speaker 7: In and out, in and out. He wasn't always around.

81
00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:08,200
Speaker 2: I often begged him to spend more time with us,

82
00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,159
Speaker 2: as I had postnatal depression after having Lauren and didn't

83
00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:15,560
Speaker 2: have anyone around to help. Never ever met very many

84
00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:17,400
Speaker 2: of the people he worked with, or any of the

85
00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:21,120
Speaker 2: people he went down the coast with. His mother hated

86
00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:24,080
Speaker 2: the fact that I had heard John so never looked

87
00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:27,920
Speaker 2: after Lauren or any of the girls. I was dreadfully lonely,

88
00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:30,520
Speaker 2: but never complained too much as he was always tired

89
00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:34,520
Speaker 2: from working. In the end, I threw myself into looking

90
00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:35,440
Speaker 2: after the children.

91
00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:41,560
Speaker 7: I know when we would visit there, like we'd go

92
00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:43,280
Speaker 7: to have a cup of tea or something, and she'd

93
00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:49,080
Speaker 7: open up the cupboards and she'd make comments like, oh, yeah,

94
00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:54,239
Speaker 7: I can only afford to buy generic food and tins

95
00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,000
Speaker 7: and stuff like that. He only gives me sixty dollars

96
00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:01,120
Speaker 7: a week. I knew that John was a person who

97
00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:04,080
Speaker 7: ran the house.

98
00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,080
Speaker 2: I found it harder to cope with Lauren's sleepless nights

99
00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,720
Speaker 2: and John never being around, but I slowly became friends

100
00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:14,440
Speaker 2: with a few people, and I then joined playgroup and

101
00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:18,320
Speaker 2: met heaps of great people. Unfortunately, John didn't want to

102
00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:21,400
Speaker 2: socialize at all, so I started to go out and

103
00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:25,159
Speaker 2: do things for myself. Playgroup and the people I met

104
00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:27,640
Speaker 2: there kept me amused and gave me time for myself.

105
00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:30,359
Speaker 2: I also had enough time for the children.

106
00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:35,000
Speaker 1: I went to see Bromwin's friend from the nineteen nineties,

107
00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:39,600
Speaker 1: Denise Barnard, at her home in Lenox, his years recalling

108
00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:40,960
Speaker 1: that time of their lives.

109
00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:42,240
Speaker 3: Well.

110
00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:44,719
Speaker 6: I was in the playgroup as a secretary. She was

111
00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,240
Speaker 6: the president, and she would often come to my home

112
00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:51,000
Speaker 6: because I couldn't go to hers. John was quite antisocial,

113
00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,200
Speaker 6: didn't like having people there because they might make a mess.

114
00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:59,120
Speaker 6: He had a very i'd say, like an OCD almost

115
00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:00,200
Speaker 6: about the us.

116
00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:03,320
Speaker 3: She told you that, didn't she?

117
00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:07,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, but I did witness it as well. Crystal

118
00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,320
Speaker 6: had spilt the lemonade and the floor, and Browin had

119
00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,000
Speaker 6: got down and was cleaning it up with a toothbrush.

120
00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:15,520
Speaker 6: And John came in to say what to be spilled

121
00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:17,760
Speaker 6: on the floor, and Broman said she'd done it. She

122
00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,400
Speaker 6: didn't want him going off a crystal. She told me

123
00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:24,840
Speaker 6: this very particular with the house. He'd done some work

124
00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:25,760
Speaker 6: for us at our house.

125
00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:29,280
Speaker 3: Was there any problem with John's work?

126
00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:34,200
Speaker 6: He's an amazing bricklayer, is he? Yeah? Yeah, he's a

127
00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:39,320
Speaker 6: very very talented tradesman. My husband's very particular and John

128
00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:40,200
Speaker 6: had that skill.

129
00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,720
Speaker 1: You'll hear more from Denise later in this episode.

130
00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:47,680
Speaker 7: If there was anything out of place in the house,

131
00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:52,320
Speaker 7: it would be a big argument. If anyone spilt anything

132
00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:54,760
Speaker 7: on the floor, she would have to get down and

133
00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,720
Speaker 7: scrub it up, because if John felt a sticky bit

134
00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:01,560
Speaker 7: on the floor, he'd go off his brain. A very

135
00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:03,320
Speaker 7: volatile type of person.

136
00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:06,960
Speaker 1: Those things you're talking about in relation to spills and

137
00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:11,600
Speaker 1: so on, are they what you witnessed or heard her talking.

138
00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:13,760
Speaker 7: About Honey, what she'd told us?

139
00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,520
Speaker 1: When did you become aware that there were serious tensions

140
00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:22,000
Speaker 1: in their relationship? Michelle is the first to acknowledge that

141
00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:25,800
Speaker 1: even close relatives never really know for sure what is

142
00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,360
Speaker 1: going on in another couple's marriage.

143
00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:32,240
Speaker 7: What you see on the outside isn't always what's happening

144
00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,680
Speaker 7: on the inside. Is it what happens behind closed doors

145
00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:39,040
Speaker 7: in someone's house. The only people who can really tell

146
00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:43,360
Speaker 7: you about that is Broman, and she can't and John,

147
00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:43,760
Speaker 7: and he.

148
00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:50,080
Speaker 1: Wrote perhaps the relationship was always doomed. Michelle believes she

149
00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,640
Speaker 1: can put her finger on one of the most distressing

150
00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:57,640
Speaker 1: and serious catalysts for it to go irretrievably bad. Roman

151
00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,160
Speaker 1: was living with John in Sandstone Present when she told

152
00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,120
Speaker 1: Michelle and Andy that she had wanted to have a

153
00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:05,000
Speaker 1: third child.

154
00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,240
Speaker 7: She'd become pregnant. She'd wanted to keep the child, and

155
00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:12,880
Speaker 7: John didn't want to. John had just lost his mum

156
00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:19,640
Speaker 7: and he was particularly close to his mother and he

157
00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:24,920
Speaker 7: wasn't coping with that. He insisted she have an abortion.

158
00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:26,199
Speaker 7: He didn't want any more kids.

159
00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:32,040
Speaker 1: Bromwin told other friends about this. They have shared their recollections,

160
00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:37,000
Speaker 1: and the accounts are consistent is Deb Hall from next door.

161
00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:42,959
Speaker 8: She fell pregnant and she was really torn. He did

162
00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,440
Speaker 8: not want another child. She wanted another baby, she loved kids.

163
00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,320
Speaker 8: She didn't go ahead with it, but I know she

164
00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:53,280
Speaker 8: struggled big time over that, as you would.

165
00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:55,719
Speaker 9: That kind of like to me was the catalyst of

166
00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:56,479
Speaker 9: their marriage.

167
00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:58,240
Speaker 8: And I thought, you know what, you've got to get

168
00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,120
Speaker 8: away from this guy if you're that miserable when he's controlling.

169
00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:05,120
Speaker 8: And I did used to say to her when you know,

170
00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:08,160
Speaker 8: when she'd had her crying sessions about him down here,

171
00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:10,120
Speaker 8: and I say, Rowin, you can't.

172
00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,000
Speaker 3: Live like this. You've got to get away from him.

173
00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:14,120
Speaker 9: Oh but I've got nowhere to go, and I'll have

174
00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:17,120
Speaker 9: no money. And that went on for a while.

175
00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,960
Speaker 1: Romman's medical records show that she became pregnant in the

176
00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:25,800
Speaker 1: second half of November nineteen ninety brow.

177
00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,800
Speaker 7: Being the type of person that she is, well, she

178
00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:34,959
Speaker 7: loved kids. Having the abortion was probably heartbreaking for her,

179
00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:41,520
Speaker 7: and for him to have insisted on it then that

180
00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:43,840
Speaker 7: would have been another nail in the coffin, so to speak,

181
00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:45,600
Speaker 7: on their marriage.

182
00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,439
Speaker 1: How would you describe her level of distress over that?

183
00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:51,360
Speaker 10: It was a hard time.

184
00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:57,840
Speaker 7: That was stressful for everybody. And that's when in that

185
00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:02,319
Speaker 7: conversation she had said to me again, if anything ever

186
00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:07,440
Speaker 7: happened to her, would I would we make sure that

187
00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:11,280
Speaker 7: Crystal was looked after? Would we look after Crystal?

188
00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:16,520
Speaker 1: You never saw any signs of physical assault or bruising

189
00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:17,280
Speaker 1: on Romwin.

190
00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,640
Speaker 7: No, I can't say that we did, but we weren't

191
00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:31,480
Speaker 7: living nearby anymore. They'd moved to lennex Head. One day

192
00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:38,040
Speaker 7: Jody came around to visit. Mitchell was little and he

193
00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:44,800
Speaker 7: was just born. I was asking Jody how everyone was.

194
00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:49,120
Speaker 7: I instigated a bit of talk about Romwin and John

195
00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:53,080
Speaker 7: and she had been living up there and then I

196
00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:57,320
Speaker 7: know she went up and down fairly regularly, so she

197
00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:00,160
Speaker 7: saw them a lot more than we did. I said,

198
00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:04,560
Speaker 7: tod ever, argue like, was there ever any arguments and

199
00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:08,280
Speaker 7: stuff like that? And she said, oh, I remember one

200
00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:12,840
Speaker 7: day Brumbell was sitting in a chair and he picked

201
00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:15,760
Speaker 7: her up in the chair and dropped it with her

202
00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:20,080
Speaker 7: in it. That was an argument they were having. And

203
00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:23,319
Speaker 7: I was quite really surprised, like I hadn't.

204
00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:24,800
Speaker 3: Heard stuff like that before.

205
00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:29,800
Speaker 7: And I had written that down, of course, And that

206
00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:32,960
Speaker 7: was in nineteen ninety three, and when that was brought

207
00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:36,480
Speaker 7: up at the inquest. She couldn't recall having said that

208
00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,840
Speaker 7: or denied it one or the other. Crystal used to

209
00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:45,800
Speaker 7: say that there was lots of yelling and arguing. I

210
00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:49,160
Speaker 7: know Bromwan wasn't allowed to look sideways at anybody. He

211
00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:50,360
Speaker 7: was a jealous person.

212
00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:18,640
Speaker 1: In her writing in nineteen ninety three, Bromwin refers to

213
00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:22,120
Speaker 1: a platonic friendship she forged with a single dad and

214
00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:26,040
Speaker 1: his child. They were housemates for a time shortly before

215
00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:28,360
Speaker 1: John and Bromwin started seeing each other.

216
00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:33,320
Speaker 2: A genuinely nice man, but he was a friend. Wonder

217
00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:35,480
Speaker 2: how they're going, as John would have had a fit

218
00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:37,960
Speaker 2: if I'd rung to see how they were going. He

219
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,080
Speaker 2: would have thought there was something going on, paranoia.

220
00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:43,160
Speaker 3: Here's deb Hall.

221
00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,839
Speaker 8: When I first met from them, they were building the

222
00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:50,160
Speaker 8: house next door and I was at the front here

223
00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:54,000
Speaker 8: on my veranda, and she came down to introduce them. Yeah,

224
00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,920
Speaker 8: we got chatting them him and welcome to the neighborhood.

225
00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:57,880
Speaker 6: We were chatting.

226
00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:00,240
Speaker 8: We had things in common, we had kids and the

227
00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,160
Speaker 8: same age. She was about the same age as me.

228
00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:07,280
Speaker 8: But whilst I was talking to her, she kind of

229
00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:13,600
Speaker 8: broke down and I hadn't met her before, and she

230
00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:14,560
Speaker 8: started to cry.

231
00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:17,320
Speaker 9: She said, I've just got some things going on with

232
00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,040
Speaker 9: my husband. And I thought, no, I don't even know you.

233
00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:22,360
Speaker 3: And that struck me and I went, oh.

234
00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:23,840
Speaker 9: There's anything I can do.

235
00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:24,600
Speaker 11: Let me know.

236
00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:27,200
Speaker 8: She didn't sort of elaborate, and I didn't kind of

237
00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:28,760
Speaker 8: push the agenda, and.

238
00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:29,280
Speaker 3: Then she went.

239
00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:31,880
Speaker 8: When they moved into the house, we got to know

240
00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:32,920
Speaker 8: each other very well.

241
00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:34,560
Speaker 3: She would be here a lot.

242
00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:37,120
Speaker 8: The reason she would be at my house was because

243
00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:41,280
Speaker 8: John would not allow anyone to come to their house.

244
00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,280
Speaker 8: John was an absolute neat freak. I mean you could

245
00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,160
Speaker 8: eat off the floor, nothing was out of place, and

246
00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,240
Speaker 8: Rowan was neat. But she wanted a house to we

247
00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,160
Speaker 8: lived in. They had kids, so I had four kids,

248
00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,440
Speaker 8: but they were never allowed in the house. If they

249
00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:56,880
Speaker 8: went up there to play, they had to play in

250
00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,840
Speaker 8: the garage. But quite often she would offload to me

251
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,720
Speaker 8: about him. How you know, he wouldn't let her have

252
00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:03,640
Speaker 8: this and wouldn't let.

253
00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:03,960
Speaker 3: Her do that.

254
00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:07,720
Speaker 8: When I ever I spoke to him, it would always

255
00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:11,240
Speaker 8: just be polite conversation. I think they came down here

256
00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:13,680
Speaker 8: once or twice and had a dream. But Roman would

257
00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:15,040
Speaker 8: come down here all the time we sit and have

258
00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:16,240
Speaker 8: coffee for hours.

259
00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:21,360
Speaker 1: In early nineteen ninety Michelle and Andy were newly weird

260
00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:25,600
Speaker 1: and holidaying in Queensland for their honeymoon. They decided to

261
00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:28,280
Speaker 1: stop in at Lennox Head on the drive back to

262
00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:30,320
Speaker 1: Sydney to see Andy's.

263
00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:34,440
Speaker 7: Sister and Roman and the kids weren't there. Only John was,

264
00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:38,440
Speaker 7: and we kind of thought, oh, that's crazy, where are they?

265
00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:43,760
Speaker 7: And he said, ah, they're in Sydney having a holiday.

266
00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:47,520
Speaker 7: I think was he said. We found out later that

267
00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:53,520
Speaker 7: heat up and left Uncle John's house, which is Andrew's uncle,

268
00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:58,200
Speaker 7: and left them there and taken himself back to Lenox Head.

269
00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,200
Speaker 7: There'd been some sort of ish and that was probably

270
00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:04,640
Speaker 7: I don't know, I suppose when I first started to think, oh,

271
00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:06,320
Speaker 7: let's be crazy, like who does that.

272
00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:11,400
Speaker 1: There was another incident remembered by the Reed family and

273
00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,880
Speaker 1: cited as evidence of John having a callous disregard for Bromwin.

274
00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:20,600
Speaker 1: Bromin's uncle John and Auntie Leah were hosting Bromwin and

275
00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:24,280
Speaker 1: John Winfield with their young children overnight in the Reed

276
00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:30,400
Speaker 1: home in Sydney. It was Christmas nineteen ninety two.

277
00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,880
Speaker 12: And he said he was going to Newcastle to look

278
00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:35,360
Speaker 12: at a car, and I said, you're going to be

279
00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:39,480
Speaker 12: back for dinner, and oh, yes, yes. We cooked dinner

280
00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:43,280
Speaker 12: and waited and waited and he hadn't turned up. And

281
00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:46,080
Speaker 12: I said to bromin about half us nine ten, do

282
00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:48,120
Speaker 12: you think he's coming back? And she did, no, I

283
00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,640
Speaker 12: don't think he is. And she was left here and

284
00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:55,760
Speaker 12: we were going overseas within a couple of days. We

285
00:16:55,880 --> 00:17:00,240
Speaker 12: gave him money and we had nobody around here could

286
00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:03,800
Speaker 12: help him. That time. When he didn't come back, she

287
00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:06,480
Speaker 12: indicated that they were having problems.

288
00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:08,200
Speaker 3: It was really strong, and it.

289
00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:12,399
Speaker 12: Was his father that came and picked her up and

290
00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:17,240
Speaker 12: drove her back up to home. Obviously John had taken

291
00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,439
Speaker 12: off and had no intention of coming back and picking

292
00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:20,720
Speaker 12: her up.

293
00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:26,320
Speaker 1: Ronman's cousin Megan Reid, says she was there and that

294
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:30,840
Speaker 1: the occasion was a lunch on Boxing Day, December twenty six,

295
00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:35,520
Speaker 1: not at dinner, as remembered by her mother, Leah Bosting.

296
00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:39,159
Speaker 12: Day was to read Christmas poets.

297
00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:40,080
Speaker 6: The whole turkey and all the rest.

298
00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,080
Speaker 12: Of it, and so Bonn went and the family, they

299
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,879
Speaker 12: were all there. He never would have thought anything was wrong,

300
00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:48,239
Speaker 12: no fight for whatever, and he said he'd be back

301
00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:50,920
Speaker 12: by one day, two o'clock for lunch. Well, he never

302
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,480
Speaker 12: showed up, and it wasn't sure. About nine hours later

303
00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:55,639
Speaker 12: that we found it out he was back at lenach Shad,

304
00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:57,359
Speaker 12: but he just choldn't back.

305
00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,480
Speaker 3: But what was his explanation for just taking.

306
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,400
Speaker 10: Oh, there wasn't one. We never got an explanation.

307
00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:07,000
Speaker 12: Where were gobsmacked perfectly honest. Mom and dad didn't know

308
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,680
Speaker 12: what to do, and John refused point blank to pay

309
00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:12,520
Speaker 12: for them to be flown home. But this is the

310
00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:15,320
Speaker 12: second occurrence, very very strange.

311
00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:17,360
Speaker 10: At the end, I'm going to tell you.

312
00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,639
Speaker 12: The first time was when Andrew got married January nineteen ninety.

313
00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:22,960
Speaker 6: Woman came down.

314
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:24,800
Speaker 12: In fact, the photo is the police used were the

315
00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,560
Speaker 12: ones I took for her in the purple dress. But

316
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:29,879
Speaker 12: he went back to learn i'd set again. So that

317
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,560
Speaker 12: was the first time he did it. Roman It ended

318
00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:34,000
Speaker 12: up staying for quite some time.

319
00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:37,040
Speaker 5: Both times, here's Michelle again.

320
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:43,280
Speaker 7: She would bring up. She would be saying that things like, oh,

321
00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:46,960
Speaker 7: I'm not very happy, I'm not happy with John and

322
00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:52,000
Speaker 7: stuff like that. I'm thinking about moving out and we

323
00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:54,480
Speaker 7: had a baby. I said to her, well, do you

324
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:56,560
Speaker 7: want to move back to Sydney like, I can help

325
00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:01,600
Speaker 7: you try and find somewhere to live, and she'd say,

326
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:02,760
Speaker 7: I can't afford to do that.

327
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:03,800
Speaker 10: I've got no money.

328
00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:07,639
Speaker 7: And then she'd say, you know, if anything ever happens

329
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:09,920
Speaker 7: to me, will you promise me you'll look after Crystal,

330
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:17,439
Speaker 7: particularly Crystal, because Crystal was not John's genetic child whereas

331
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:22,280
Speaker 7: Lauren was. She kind of felt that John would look

332
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:24,679
Speaker 7: after his own more than he would look after Crystal,

333
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:31,320
Speaker 7: which rang through in the end. We would discuss what

334
00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:35,440
Speaker 7: was happening, and we even thought, oh, we can't even

335
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,280
Speaker 7: really put them up here. We're in a little three

336
00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:41,359
Speaker 7: bedroom home. We had hardly any room to fit another

337
00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:46,560
Speaker 7: person and two kids. Another time she rang up and

338
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:50,560
Speaker 7: she was unhappy and was talking about leaving him again,

339
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:56,040
Speaker 7: and said again the next time about looking after the

340
00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,240
Speaker 7: kids if anything ever happened to me. She never ever

341
00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:04,280
Speaker 7: said straight out, oh, I think John's going to do

342
00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:08,399
Speaker 7: something to me. That never got said. It just got implied.

343
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:13,760
Speaker 1: When she was saying, where's the effect if something happens

344
00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:14,000
Speaker 1: to me?

345
00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:17,760
Speaker 5: I guess There's a couple of different ways you can

346
00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:21,560
Speaker 5: interpret that. She may self harm. For example, she might

347
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:22,320
Speaker 5: have a health.

348
00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:27,200
Speaker 1: Issue, or she may be fearful of a partner. Do

349
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,560
Speaker 1: you recall what you took from it at that time?

350
00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:39,040
Speaker 7: Oh, definitely fearful. We knew she wasn't unwill she would

351
00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:45,639
Speaker 7: never leave her kids. She loved those kids wholeheartedly, like

352
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,280
Speaker 7: everything for her. It was fear. It was fear of John.

353
00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:51,280
Speaker 7: I just knew that.

354
00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 1: Why do you think she didn't actually express that bluntly?

355
00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:01,080
Speaker 7: Maybe her fear of him find out out she'd said that.

356
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:07,480
Speaker 1: Michelle recalls Broman telling her about John's volatility and his

357
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:11,840
Speaker 1: intolerance for visitors in his house, his castle.

358
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:16,800
Speaker 7: He didn't want anyone there. He didn't want her having friends.

359
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:20,199
Speaker 7: A really strange bloat.

360
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:21,879
Speaker 3: Andy.

361
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,960
Speaker 5: Around this time, when Robin was telling you.

362
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:30,720
Speaker 1: About her troubles in the marriage, you were counseling her

363
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:35,520
Speaker 1: to try to work things through and keep a marriage intact.

364
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:39,159
Speaker 4: Do you remember that I was doing my best to

365
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,680
Speaker 4: sort of advise Brian to do her best to see

366
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:44,320
Speaker 4: if she could work through it.

367
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,440
Speaker 3: She had a previous marriage.

368
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,560
Speaker 4: I knew John was very controlling, you know, with money

369
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,199
Speaker 4: and all the rest of it. She was on that

370
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:56,639
Speaker 4: tide of budget that she used to hand so all

371
00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 4: the kids, little dressed, little summer dresses and things like that.

372
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:02,840
Speaker 4: But I was just sort of doing my best to

373
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,400
Speaker 4: see if she tried everything before she threw the town

374
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,680
Speaker 4: in Tremerally, people have probably got this very talle that

375
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 4: you're going to meet someone and you have your first

376
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,320
Speaker 4: kiss and lost a better roses for the rest of

377
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,280
Speaker 4: your life, like a good marriage, you're a long lasting

378
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,160
Speaker 4: marriage or something that's worked at and you just need

379
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,440
Speaker 4: to be good mates and good friends and support each

380
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,160
Speaker 4: other and that sort of thing. So I was sort

381
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:30,640
Speaker 4: of adamant that after witnessing sort of the upbringing I had,

382
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,959
Speaker 4: I thought it's a good idea for Bronda, maybe at

383
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:35,879
Speaker 4: least try.

384
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 3: As much as she could.

385
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:43,080
Speaker 1: But Debhall knew that a reconciliation was pointless, if not impossible.

386
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,399
Speaker 8: To my astonishment, one day, she and I can't remember

387
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 8: exactly when it was, but she told me she was

388
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:52,679
Speaker 8: going to leave him. And I said, oh, okay, well

389
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:54,239
Speaker 8: where are you going to go? And she said, I've

390
00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:57,720
Speaker 8: organized the place down in Lennox. I said, well that's good.

391
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,200
Speaker 8: I said, well, you know what is John thing. Well,

392
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 8: he's agreeable to it, and I'm.

393
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:06,359
Speaker 9: Going to move down there, and so she did. I

394
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 9: did visit her there.

395
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:07,920
Speaker 3: She got a dog.

396
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,439
Speaker 8: The kids always wanted a puppy, and then she thought, well,

397
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 8: I'm going to get him a puppy.

398
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,000
Speaker 9: And I used to think, oh, she's really branching out,

399
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 9: you know, she's really and she had a job at

400
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 9: the cafe down there, and she was sort of getting

401
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,159
Speaker 9: on with it. And you'd go down there and the

402
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,199
Speaker 9: house has lived in, the kids had their stuff, and

403
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,479
Speaker 9: that my kids would go and play, and you know,

404
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 9: it was just a normal environment, albeit a little bit

405
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:31,360
Speaker 9: difficult for her.

406
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:33,879
Speaker 5: Why did she even move out?

407
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 1: She didn't have a choice. It's a jointly owned house,

408
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 1: not in Don's ice. But would it have been a

409
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 1: legally jointly owned house to your knowledge?

410
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 3: Of course it should have been. Of course it would

411
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:46,120
Speaker 3: have been.

412
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 1: And in a situation like that, where there's a mother,

413
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,640
Speaker 1: a father and two girls being raised ostensibly by Bromwin,

414
00:23:55,320 --> 00:24:00,679
Speaker 1: it's normal for the male to leave the family, not

415
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 1: the moment of the kids to be up.

416
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 4: Ready, she was forced out, basically. I remember having the

417
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 4: conversation that she just said, she doesn't have a choice.

418
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 4: She's going to have to find somewhere to go. And

419
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 4: that's when I believe that she'd found that little townhouse

420
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 4: down in Byron Street.

421
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 7: Turn left onto Byron Street.

422
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 1: At that time, Michelle and Andy were having their second child, Mitchell.

423
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,400
Speaker 1: Andy wonders how things would have turned out if their

424
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 1: lives had been less hectic.

425
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 7: Then we were trying to tell her we'd had a

426
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 7: boy and she was happy, but all then channeled back

427
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 7: to her leaving John. She was leaving. She was going

428
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 7: to find somewhere to live. Mitchell was born on the

429
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:51,199
Speaker 7: thirty first of March. Bromwin was very preoccupied. That was

430
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 7: all happening in her life right then and there.

431
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,880
Speaker 1: When Bromwin had called about the advertisement for the townhouse

432
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 1: on March twenty two in the Northern Star newspaper, the

433
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 1: property's owner and landlady cut her some slack. Shirley Taylor

434
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 1: knew it must have been a financial struggle for the

435
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 1: newly single young mum. These are Shirley's words to police

436
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 1: in September nineteen ninety eight.

437
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 3: It's not her voice.

438
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 13: She informed me that she had separated from her husband

439
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 13: and was looking for a place to rent. At the time,

440
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 13: she had two young girls with her. After inspecting the flat,

441
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 13: she informed me that she wished to rent it, but

442
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 13: told me that she would have trouble paying the one

443
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 13: hundred and fifty dollars a week rent. I told her

444
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 13: that she could move in and we would see how

445
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 13: things go.

446
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 1: Shirley also asked for a bond of seven hundred dollars.

447
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 1: A check for the amount was signed by John Winfield.

448
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,160
Speaker 1: Bronwin handed it over the same day.

449
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 13: Whilst bron was moving in. On that day, her husband,

450
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,159
Speaker 13: John came over to my place and asked for the

451
00:25:58,160 --> 00:25:59,400
Speaker 13: bond money to be given.

452
00:25:59,200 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 6: Back to him.

453
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 13: I told him that Bromin had given me the money

454
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 13: for the bond, and he was very angry and demanded

455
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 13: the money because of the way he was acting in

456
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 13: his aggressive manner. I gave him back the check and

457
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 13: he left. A couple of days later, broman came over

458
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 13: to my place and gave me another check for seven

459
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,879
Speaker 13: hundred dollars. I think it was the same check that

460
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 13: her husband had taken from me.

461
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 1: Shirley grew fond.

462
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 3: Of the young woman.

463
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 13: I came to know Bromwin fairly well, and I would

464
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 13: mind her children if she had to go down the street.

465
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 13: I found her to be a most devoted mother who

466
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 13: was very attached to her children. I didn't really have

467
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 13: any conversations with her about her private life. I do recall, though,

468
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 13: that she told me that she hated her husband.

469
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 1: Bromwin spoke to a solicitor, Tony Mannering, at his office

470
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: in the nearby town of Ballino. It was a fortnight

471
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: after she and her daughters had moved out of the

472
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 1: house in Sandstone Crescent. John promptly changed the locks up

473
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:03,159
Speaker 1: there put a deadlock on the front door. It was

474
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 1: a powerful signal to Bronwin that she would not be

475
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:11,160
Speaker 1: welcomed back. The solicitor must have taken careful notes during

476
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 1: their first meeting. He and his new client covered a

477
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 1: lot of ground for a pending divorce and a possible

478
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: battle over custody and property. It was important to have

479
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:27,959
Speaker 1: as much information as possible. Mannering summarized the facts and

480
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 1: circumstances in a letter that he wrote to Bromwin on

481
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 1: April sixth, nineteen ninety three. His letter was sent to

482
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 1: her at the townhouse in Byron Street. These are Tony

483
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 1: Mannering's words, it's not his voice.

484
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 14: Dear madam. We advise your instructions as follows. You married

485
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 14: your husband on fourteen December nineteen eighty seven, at Ballina.

486
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 14: Although you did not live with your husband as man

487
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 14: and wife prior to your marriage, you did look after

488
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,360
Speaker 14: your husband's daughter, Jodi Line Winfield, on a full time

489
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,719
Speaker 14: basis sometime prior to your marriage. You separated from your

490
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 14: husband on twenty one March nineteen ninety three. Your husband

491
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 14: has been married twice before, and you have been married

492
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,479
Speaker 14: once before. You and your husband have a child together,

493
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 14: Lauren Mary Winfield born nineteen eighty eight. Lauren now lives

494
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 14: with you. You have a child from a previous relationship,

495
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 14: Crystal Joy Winfield born nineteen eighty two. Cristel was five

496
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 14: years old when you married your husband. Your husband treated

497
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 14: Cristel as his daughter and insisted that Cristel called him Dad.

498
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 1: The solicitor noted the respective assets of Bromwin and John

499
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: at the time they became a couple and when they separated.

500
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 1: Bromwin owned furniture and a car with the value of

501
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: about five thousand dollars. When she and John got together,

502
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: John had a car worth one thousand dollars.

503
00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 14: And some fifty thousand dollars being his share of the

504
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 14: proceeds of the sale of a former home owned by

505
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 14: him and a previous wife.

506
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: Tony Mannering described what he.

507
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 14: Called the present asset of both you and your husband

508
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 14: a home at Sandstone Crescent, Lennox Head, the former matrimonial home,

509
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 14: which you value between two hundred and fifty thousand dollars

510
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 14: and three hundred thousand dollars. The former matrimonial home is

511
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 14: not encumbered by mortgage or debt. Your understanding is that

512
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 14: the former matrimonial home is in your husband's name alone.

513
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: The solicitor listed a white Ford Falcon worth about five

514
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 1: thousand dollars. There was the household furniture, a bank account

515
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 1: in the name of her youngest daughter, Lauren with a

516
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: balance of about seven hundred dollars, and an account in

517
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 1: John's name, but Bromin didn't know how much John had saved.

518
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 14: Throughout the marriage, you and your husband adopted traditional family

519
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 14: roles in that you were the homemaker and mother and

520
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 14: your husband and worked as a bricklayer.

521
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 1: Bromwin had been doing some casual work in her friend

522
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: Robin Shanahan's hamburger and sandwich joint called Eden's Takeaway on

523
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 1: Pacific Parade facing the beach. It gave her some pocket

524
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: money without affecting her availability for school. Drop offs and pickups.

525
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 14: You wish to continue your role as a mother at

526
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 14: least until Lauren is a bit older. Your husband is

527
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 14: a qualified bricklayer, although he has had some neck and

528
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 14: shoulder injuries which he says have prevented him from working.

529
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 14: We confirm our advice to you as follows. The Family

530
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 14: Law Act provides that you are entitled to make a

531
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 14: claim upon the assets that we have listed above.

532
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 1: He described some of the things that would be taken

533
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: into account in a fair property settlement. Their respective financial

534
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: contributions to the marriage and the work of Bromwan as

535
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 1: homemaker and parent were part of this.

536
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 14: In this regard, we note your instructions that you have

537
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 14: been the parent to perform the majority of the parental

538
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 14: duties for the three children, including your husband's daughter. Further,

539
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 14: you have been the party to the marriage who undertook

540
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 14: the majority of the household tasks and duties.

541
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: It was too soon to provide Roman with a percentage, however,

542
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: Tony Mannering wrote.

543
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 14: You can be assured that you are entitled to a

544
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,959
Speaker 14: significant percentage of the assets. We note our suggestion that

545
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 14: you do not leave property matters for too long, but

546
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 14: contact us again in say one month's time to assess

547
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 14: when you will make your claim on your husband for

548
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 14: the finalization of property matters in respect of dissolving your marriage.

549
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 14: You can make an application for dissolution after twelve months

550
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 14: has expired from the date of your separation.

551
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 1: Roman was doing the legal rounds. She had asked for

552
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 1: advice from a solicitor called Graham Holland in Byron Bay,

553
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 1: north of Lennox. The third solicitor she would go and see,

554
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 1: Chris mcdebitt, was based in the inland town of Lismore.

555
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 1: On April twenty fourth, nineteen ninety three, Bromin had a birthday.

556
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: She turned thirty one. Her friend de Niece remembered it

557
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 1: was a happy occasion for her and the other playgroup mums.

558
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 6: She'd moved into a unit with the girls and they

559
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 6: had got a puppy because John had never wanted to

560
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 6: have a dog, so they've got a puppy. We went down,

561
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 6: we surprised her and we had her birthday morning there,

562
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 6: which was lovely.

563
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 3: She loved it. What did you think of Romin's state

564
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 3: of mind?

565
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 6: She always seemed to have it together. You would never

566
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 6: imagine them as a couple. Here was the surfy, sort

567
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 6: of very good looking, piercing blue eyes. Alona doesn't have

568
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 6: any mates, as far as I know, didn't have any.

569
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 6: Den don't think he has a knee now. Bromwan was

570
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 6: the almost prum and proper tall slender. She was very intelligent,

571
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 6: uckly groomed, as were the children always they were very

572
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 6: chalk and cheese.

573
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 1: You're certain about Bromwen confiding to you that John was

574
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: threatening towards her.

575
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 6: I still recollect when she told me that he had

576
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 6: had her by the throat up against the wall, and

577
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 6: that she was frightened.

578
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 1: That he physically held her, that she was scared of him.

579
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 3: Yep. It's not something that.

580
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 6: He had a by a throat, yep. I remember the conversation.

581
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:36,959
Speaker 1: Presumably John would say that he was never threatening towards

582
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: Bromman and that she made up these stories or she

583
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 1: grossly exaggerated and you didn't see any actual violence. What

584
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 1: do you think about the proposition that Bromwin, for example,

585
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: could embellish or fabricate stories about John.

586
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 6: I don't know that she would need to.

587
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 1: Did she ever say to you, I just need to

588
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 1: go away for a long long time.

589
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 7: No.

590
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 6: I think she was committed to leaving him and taking

591
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 6: the girls and starting a new life for herself. Probably

592
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 6: the bottom line, she would never have left those children

593
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 6: never they were her life, and knowing that Chrystaw wasn't John's,

594
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 6: she wouldn't have gone anywhere without them. She just wouldn't

595
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 6: have done it. And afterwards, after she disappeared, John contacted

596
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 6: me because he didn't want the dog, So my parents

597
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 6: ended up with that lovely little dog for like eighteen years.

598
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 3: What was the name, Muffy?

599
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: How do you feel about Bromin's case becoming part of

600
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 1: this podcast investigation?

601
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 6: Fantastic?

602
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 1: You're not worried about bringing up painful memories and no

603
00:34:58,640 --> 00:34:59,800
Speaker 1: difficult situation.

604
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 6: No, I think we need to We need to do it.

605
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:08,800
Speaker 6: It's been too long. I think anybody that had anything

606
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 6: to impart any more information to try and get this

607
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 6: resolved one way or the other would be interesting in

608
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 6: talking to you. Whatever happened that night, on that Sunday

609
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 6: night that was the last of Bromwin. That's tonight those

610
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 6: girls lost their mum.

611
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,359
Speaker 1: I drove to a park in a rural town near

612
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 1: Lennox to meet one of Bromwin's friends. She has been

613
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:44,840
Speaker 1: anxious about meeting me and speaking publicly. I'm not going

614
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 1: to identify you by your name in this podcast, but

615
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 1: your voice will be heard.

616
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 11: Yeah.

617
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 1: Are you okay with that? And I understand that you've

618
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 1: got personal reasons. Where would you like to start? And

619
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 1: talking about your friend brom.

620
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 11: She loved kids, so there was no way she would

621
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 11: willingly fell off and leave her kids.

622
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 1: At the time, she and Bromwan were good friends. In

623
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 1: this place. Joan had recently left a violent relationship. She

624
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 1: still looked over her shoulder.

625
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 5: Had you been through a tough time?

626
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 2: Yes?

627
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 1: Broman supported her until her disappearance.

628
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 3: She understood, and you knew about the termination.

629
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 7: Yes.

630
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 11: She told me that he had made her have an

631
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 11: abush That would have been really hard for her because

632
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 11: she loved kids.

633
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 1: Broman told her friend that she had wanted to leave

634
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 1: John for some time, but that he had warned her

635
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,919
Speaker 1: she would get next to nothing. He was not going

636
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 1: to vacate or sell the house on Sandstone. Isn't the

637
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 1: title deeds show that he had put the property in

638
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,320
Speaker 1: his name, and.

639
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:10,800
Speaker 11: He said he would give her And I can't remember

640
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 11: the exact amount, I have ten dollars something like that.

641
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 11: There was no mortgage on house and she said, no,

642
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 11: I won't. I'll get a real estate to value it.

643
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 1: Joan recalled Roman, disclosing that she had organized a valuer

644
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 1: to put a potential price on the property. It came

645
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 1: in around two hundred and forty five thousand dollars in

646
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three.

647
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 11: She couldn't get a certain one because he was friends

648
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 11: with them, and.

649
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 1: She wanted the house valued so she could work out

650
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,319
Speaker 1: what her equity in it potentially would be in a

651
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 1: property settlement.

652
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 11: Yes, and she'd told me she'd one time he was

653
00:37:54,360 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 11: talking to his father. He didn't want to lose that house.

654
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 11: Like she said, she overheard him talking to his father,

655
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 11: it'd be better if he had the kids more chance

656
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 11: of having the house.

657
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 3: Had you been in the house?

658
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 7: Yeah, not often.

659
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 11: And then she moved into the un.

660
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 1: Do you remember the townhouse that she moved into, trying

661
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,320
Speaker 1: to cast your mind back to that period nineteen ninety

662
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 1: three when she was living there.

663
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 3: You visited her there?

664
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 6: Yes?

665
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 3: How did she see?

666
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 11: It's fine? Probably more relaxed. I think she could feel

667
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 11: like she could do what she wanted to do.

668
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 1: I met Joan again a few weeks later in a

669
00:38:55,640 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 1: riverside park. Do you recall Broum whenever saying things to

670
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 1: you that made you concern for her safety.

671
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 15: Yes, she had told me that John had said to

672
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,760
Speaker 15: her she bad mouth killer around the hound.

673
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 11: He would killing.

674
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 3: She said that to you.

675
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 15: I got the impression she felt like he would. I

676
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 15: had no ideat about believing anything she told me.

677
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,760
Speaker 3: You took that seriously at the time, Well.

678
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 9: She certainly did.

679
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 3: So.

680
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 15: Somebody at that loved kids like she did wasn't going to

681
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 15: go off and leave her own kids.

682
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 11: I was so.

683
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 15: Wanting to get answers right because I felt like, but

684
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 15: for the grace of God go I.

685
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 1: I know from talking to Brohman's family and friends that

686
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 1: she was finding it difficult to support herself and the

687
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,360
Speaker 1: girls while also trying to find rent of one hundred

688
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:01,359
Speaker 1: and fifty dollars a week for the townhouse. Here's her

689
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:02,800
Speaker 1: Auntie Leah again.

690
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 7: Well, she was on the phone.

691
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 12: She wanted me to give us two thousand dollars, and

692
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 12: we didn't have two thousand dollars without taking it out

693
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 12: of our business. Our business was new, we weren't in

694
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 12: that sort of position. Particularly, she wouldn't tell me what

695
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 12: it was for. At that time, she had moved out

696
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,720
Speaker 12: of the house, and she told me she was living

697
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 12: in an apartment.

698
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 10: She called me constantly.

699
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 12: I'd get these long phone calls and she'd talk about

700
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,759
Speaker 12: clair voyance and all this sort of thing, and that's

701
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 12: what I thought she wanted the money for.

702
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:45,800
Speaker 1: What did you understand about her interest in the clear words?

703
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 12: I think she was trying to find out, you know,

704
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:52,879
Speaker 12: what was going to happen with a marriage that sort

705
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 12: of couldn't get her off the phone. Must have been

706
00:40:55,320 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 12: the last I would say months. But she didn't really

707
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 12: tell me she was moving. I remember being surprised when

708
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 12: I found that she had gone, and she said, I'm

709
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 12: in an apartment, but I'm going back to my house

710
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 12: because John has got to go down to Sydney for

711
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 12: a job, and I'll go back while he's gone.

712
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:24,799
Speaker 3: Did you detect any fear or urgency in the conversations.

713
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:27,280
Speaker 12: Because I would have lent him money if i'd thought

714
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 12: that she needed it for something important from my recollection,

715
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 12: As you said at the time, she wouldn't tell you

716
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 12: what she wandered for. Yeah, Broman wanted money, but she

717
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 12: wouldn't tell us what it was for. And she said

718
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 12: to me, and you'll all be sorry that's right. She

719
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 12: said you'll all be sorry.

720
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 1: And that comment that she made you'll be sorry, was

721
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 1: that connected to her being unable to get alone?

722
00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 9: I think so.

723
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 12: We discussed it at the time whether we should give

724
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:04,720
Speaker 12: her the money, don't you remember, And our own kids

725
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 12: were all wanting money too at the time.

726
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 3: Do you recall whether you or John had lent money

727
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 3: to Bromwin before.

728
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 12: No, No, it was quite a lot of money, and

729
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:17,280
Speaker 12: we thought.

730
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 7: If we give her money, we're going to have to

731
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 7: give our.

732
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:20,280
Speaker 10: Own kids money.

733
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 12: Perhaps she wanted to get a lawyer or.

734
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:24,799
Speaker 10: Something like that.

735
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 12: But if she'd said that to us, if she'd said

736
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 12: I need a lawyer, and there'd been no reason not

737
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 12: to tell us, were there that she wanted a lawyer,

738
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 12: I certainly wouldn't have thought, from what I knew of

739
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:41,360
Speaker 12: John that she was in any danger from him.

740
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 1: What was it about John's personality and demeanor that made

741
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 1: you feel she would be in no danger from.

742
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 3: Him even though they were going through marital issues.

743
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 12: Well, it just seemed like a normal everyday father of

744
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 12: the time.

745
00:42:56,160 --> 00:43:01,359
Speaker 10: My man name didn't do anything terribly terrific or bad.

746
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:04,360
Speaker 12: Did They just had an unhappy marriage.

747
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 1: Do you recall Broman's showing you her arm and a

748
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 1: bruise and saying that she had been.

749
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 3: Assaulted by John. That's in your statement. Yeah, I don't

750
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 3: recall it now, Hedley, but.

751
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 11: If I said that would have been what what happened?

752
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:22,359
Speaker 3: You recall it now.

753
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 1: John Reid is an elderly man. It is unsurprising that

754
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 1: he cannot remember what he told police twenty six years

755
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 1: ago when he signed a formal statement. I'm going to

756
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: read some key sentences from John Reid's police statement. It's

757
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 1: dated August eleventh, nineteen ninety eight. He is describing a

758
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:48,720
Speaker 1: visit by Bronwan to the Reid home in Sydney, about

759
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 1: five months before his niece's disappearance. Bromwin's uncle says in

760
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 1: this statement, quote, whilst Broman was at our house, she

761
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 1: informed me that John had been assaulting her and she

762
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 1: showed me a significant bruise on her forearm. I cannot

763
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 1: remember which arm it was.

764
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 3: Unquote.

765
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 1: He then raised the stream of telephone calls from Bromwin

766
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 1: when she was seeking money in the weeks before her disappearance,

767
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 1: and he says in his statement from nineteen ninety eight, quote,

768
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:28,320
Speaker 1: I was aware that Broman was causing Leah some anguish

769
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 1: about these regular telephone calls. So I asked my daughter Megan,

770
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 1: who was very friendly with Broman, to ask her to

771
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 1: stop ringing. I can't really remember what happened after this,

772
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: but I am aware that Bromwin disappeared a very short

773
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 1: time later. Unquote, Broman worked when she could at Eden's Takeaway,

774
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 1: but it was not enough to pay all the bills.

775
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 1: I spoke to Robin Shanahan, who owned the fast food

776
00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 1: place with her husband and two friends, doing a.

777
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 3: Couple of ships a week for you. Is that right?

778
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 3: Can you recall?

779
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 16: Yeah, she was always keen to get to work.

780
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:08,320
Speaker 9: She liked a job, just go worker.

781
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 16: And I think she needed the money to make milkshakes,

782
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 16: I think, and make sandwiches and stuff. Yeah, that's a

783
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:19,400
Speaker 16: little takeaway. We just all paid our staff cash. She

784
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 16: obviously needed finance some money to keep going. If she

785
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 16: wasn't living at home and she wasn't getting any money off.

786
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:31,880
Speaker 16: John and her were toxic. I had thought I knew her,

787
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 16: and we got to know her very well. And I'll

788
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 16: tell you this because I don't I ever told anybody

789
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 16: she was so nervous. I think with John.

790
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:47,439
Speaker 1: Robin told me that in the kitchen of Bromman's home

791
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 1: at Lennox Head, there was a teatawel draped over the

792
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 1: back of the taps at the kitchen sink. When Robin asked,

793
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 1: why do you have a teatawel there, Robin replied that

794
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 1: when peeling potato, starch sometimes sprayed onto the taps it

795
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 1: would set John off. The tetail minimized the risk of

796
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:09,720
Speaker 1: an argument.

797
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:12,760
Speaker 6: In my opin shouldn't infere.

798
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 1: John had taken his tools and gone to Sydney to work.

799
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 1: The family home in Sandstone Crescent was sitting empty, but

800
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 1: John did not want Bromwyn and the two girls, Crystal

801
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 1: and Lauren, living there now that he had separated from

802
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 1: his wife. John's daughter from his first marriage, Jody, was

803
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 1: in Sydney and working in a hair salon when the

804
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 1: breakup occurred. Bromwin was fond of her stepdaughter. They had

805
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 1: formed an affectionate bond over the previous six years. On

806
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:52,719
Speaker 1: May sixth, nineteen ninety three, that's ten days before Bromwin disappeared,

807
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 1: she wrote to Jody from the townhouse in Byron Street.

808
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 2: Dear Jody, since I didn't want to run up your

809
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 2: phone bills, saying what things needed to be said. I

810
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 2: thought I would write you a letter. It's always easier

811
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 2: to write these things down than it is to say them.

812
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 2: When I spoke to you last and said that I

813
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,880
Speaker 2: will always be there for you, I meant every word

814
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 2: of it. A young girl always needs someone to talk

815
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:20,360
Speaker 2: to and hopefully guide them until they can make the

816
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 2: right decisions. I know you have your own mother, but

817
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 2: she doesn't always think of what's best for you. Even

818
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 2: though your mother let you down, you must always love

819
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 2: her because she is your mother, despite any faults, and

820
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 2: because you can't change the past. I think I could

821
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 2: have been a better step mother to you by making

822
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:41,840
Speaker 2: your family see that they should have been more supportive

823
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 2: of you over the past few years since you left me.

824
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:47,919
Speaker 2: I am hoping to make amends for letting you down

825
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 2: by telling you that I will always be here for

826
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:53,839
Speaker 2: you to talk to and be your best friend, and

827
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 2: that if you ever need me, I will be there

828
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 2: for you. You are more than welcome to visit me

829
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:02,600
Speaker 2: in the your sisters, and if you ever get into

830
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 2: any trouble financially, emotionally, or in any way, you can

831
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:08,240
Speaker 2: come to me and we will sort them out together.

832
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 2: I may not have much money at the moment, but

833
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:14,840
Speaker 2: there will always be a solution. You are the best

834
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:18,359
Speaker 2: daughter that anyone could have had, even if we had

835
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:21,400
Speaker 2: our disagreements, and if you ever need a home, you

836
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 2: will always be welcome in mine.

837
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 1: Throughout this time, as Bromin did her best to make

838
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 1: ends meet in the rented townhouse, she and her brother

839
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:32,800
Speaker 1: Andy were talking regularly.

840
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 4: You know, that's something I've always lived with since the

841
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 4: day I was the one that's in that week when

842
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 4: she found out that John had actually left Lennox and

843
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 4: the house was vacant, and here she is on absolute

844
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:48,320
Speaker 4: struggle street.

845
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 3: I said, well, Ron possessions, no intense at the law.

846
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:57,400
Speaker 4: She's just struggling for money, not getting any support from him. Really,

847
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 4: I said, don't get back in the head, get back

848
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 4: in the house, and then it's going to force the issue.

849
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 3: It's going to force everything to be resolved. She'd boomed

850
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:12,440
Speaker 3: to see a solicitor and started the process. Go and

851
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 3: so if you can get back in the house.

852
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:18,920
Speaker 1: In Lismore, Bromwin's new solicitor, Chris McDevitt, offered the same

853
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 1: advice she was getting from Andy. Chris acted promptly on

854
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:27,240
Speaker 1: Broman's instructions to write a formal legal letter to John.

855
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 17: Dear mister Winfield, Bronwyin is hopeful that you will both

856
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:34,240
Speaker 17: be able to reach an agreement in relation to financial matters,

857
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:36,360
Speaker 17: and we will be writing to you further with a

858
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 17: proposal in this regard in the near future.

859
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 1: Bromwin must have told her solicitor to leave John in

860
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 1: no doubt about her intentions to proceed to a divorce.

861
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:52,240
Speaker 1: The letter is dated Friday May fourteen, that's two days

862
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 1: before Bromwan disappeared, and the letter was sent to John's brother,

863
00:49:56,719 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 1: Peter Winfield's address in Sydney. John was working in Sydney

864
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 1: and staying at Peter's house, but it is unlikely John

865
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 1: saw it before Bromin disappeared.

866
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 3: The letter, if.

867
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 1: Posted in the usual way, would not have arrived there

868
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 1: until early the following week. Bromwin's sister in law Michelle

869
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 1: and brother Andy are adamant that John knew the gist

870
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 1: of what was in the.

871
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 7: Letter, but told him so he was aware that it

872
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:27,040
Speaker 7: was in the process.

873
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:31,279
Speaker 17: We are instructed by Bronwyn that in her view, your

874
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:33,040
Speaker 17: marriage is at an end and that there is no

875
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 17: prospect of a reconciliation. In the meantime, we require your

876
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:40,280
Speaker 17: immediate agreement for Bronwinn to retain the use and possession

877
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 17: of the Ford motor vehicle pending finalization of your financial matters.

878
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:48,240
Speaker 1: The letter doesn't disclose to John that Bromwin was about

879
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 1: to move back into Sandstone Crescent, but Bromwyn and Chris

880
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 1: mcdebitt had talked about this in his office in Lismore.

881
00:50:57,080 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 1: He told her she had every legal right to do so.

882
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 1: Broman made up her mind that she would move back

883
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:08,359
Speaker 1: in on Friday May fourteenth. In a separate note to her,

884
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:11,400
Speaker 1: Chris mcdebitt wrote that he would let her know of

885
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:14,880
Speaker 1: any reply from John in the meantime.

886
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:16,759
Speaker 3: Chris mcdebitt added.

887
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 17: We look forward to seeing you at your appointment next Monday.

888
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 1: But Broman didn't show up for that appointment at the

889
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:27,880
Speaker 1: law firm in Molesworth Street, Lismore on Monday May seventeenth,

890
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three. Meaghan Reid has invited me to her

891
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:55,960
Speaker 1: house on Sydney's Northern Beaches to look at some of

892
00:51:56,000 --> 00:52:00,640
Speaker 1: the newly recovered police files. Meghan also has a lot

893
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:02,799
Speaker 1: to say about John Winfield.

894
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:06,359
Speaker 12: I've been on the phone talking to her at her

895
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:09,920
Speaker 12: flat when she moved into Byron Speed and in here

896
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 12: screaming outside let me let me in.

897
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 10: And she actually tore.

898
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:18,359
Speaker 12: The phone off the wall at one point to stop

899
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:19,960
Speaker 12: me ringing out a hassling out.

900
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:22,400
Speaker 3: These are bills for missus b J.

901
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 1: Winfield Byron Street Lennox head phone bills from Telecom Australia.

902
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:30,359
Speaker 10: Yes there were more than a police have got them.

903
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:33,799
Speaker 1: And the date of issue this one was the seventeenth

904
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:35,439
Speaker 1: of the fifth ninety three.

905
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:36,279
Speaker 3: God went.

906
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 1: Phone calls expensive then four hundred and thirty dollars and

907
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 1: sixty six cents.

908
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 3: Back then, usually.

909
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 12: Bromwin would call me and I would call her back.

910
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:47,960
Speaker 12: My husband was very wealthy, so I could afford to

911
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:49,799
Speaker 12: doing her so I did.

912
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:53,759
Speaker 3: Was Bromwin materialistic No, not at all.

913
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 10: She had dreadful u friends.

914
00:52:57,360 --> 00:53:01,120
Speaker 12: She was left it too and she had to go

915
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:04,440
Speaker 12: and live with my grandmother, my father's mother, who then

916
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 12: had a nurse breakdown.

917
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 10: Ever since she was a little girl who wanted the.

918
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:13,320
Speaker 12: Fairy tale when she was sort of most loving gentle person.

919
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:16,320
Speaker 10: Because I was always saying to her, come over scenes

920
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 10: with me, she did want that.

921
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:22,120
Speaker 12: She wanted to have more children, desperately and just have

922
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 12: a house of her own, to be a mother. That's

923
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:27,880
Speaker 12: all she wanted to be, and a homemaker and a wife.

924
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 12: All I want is the white picket fence. That was

925
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:34,960
Speaker 12: her whole thing, and she threw herself into it head first.

926
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 10: She was a brilliant mother. She just loved those kids.

927
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 12: They were always immaculate, They were happy, even when obviously

928
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:45,560
Speaker 12: there were problems in the marriage. She never showed it

929
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 12: in front of those children. She never wanted to move

930
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:52,279
Speaker 12: to Lane Upset. All her friends were in Sydney. Her

931
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:56,160
Speaker 12: whole support circle was in Sydney. But John bought that

932
00:53:56,200 --> 00:54:00,360
Speaker 12: book of Land with his ex wife the one before.

933
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:01,600
Speaker 10: He made her go up there.

934
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 12: Took her a while to meet people, but she did

935
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 12: because she's very friendly. The last time I actually laid

936
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:11,360
Speaker 12: eyes on her was just before she moved into Byron

937
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:14,319
Speaker 12: Street in March. And I know that because I was

938
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:17,600
Speaker 12: with my dean husband on a business trip and she

939
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:20,719
Speaker 12: looked dreadful. And she's sitting there, she's chainsmoking and drip

940
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:21,680
Speaker 12: cuts coffee.

941
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:23,759
Speaker 10: The house looked like a showroom.

942
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:26,440
Speaker 3: What do you mean the house look like a showroom.

943
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:29,600
Speaker 12: They looked like a display home. All the time sold

944
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:33,239
Speaker 12: where they used to live. Cristoll actually went up there

945
00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:36,320
Speaker 12: for Christmas last year. She calls him dad.

946
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:38,680
Speaker 3: Still And what is Lauren's position?

947
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 12: Lauren believes her mother has taken off and left her father.

948
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:45,239
Speaker 12: She doesn't believe for a minute that he would hurt her.

949
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:47,920
Speaker 3: And does Lauren have contact with you?

950
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:49,440
Speaker 10: I've met her once.

951
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 12: John built her a house next door to his house,

952
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:55,880
Speaker 12: another house for his other daughter on the other side.

953
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 3: Do you think that he would be interviewed by the

954
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:03,319
Speaker 3: by you, I don't know.

955
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:04,759
Speaker 10: I don't know.

956
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:09,920
Speaker 12: He'll be very upset because he is such a private,

957
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:11,400
Speaker 12: private individual.

958
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:14,480
Speaker 10: Maybe he would feel that he needs to put his

959
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:16,759
Speaker 10: side forth. I'd give it a go.

960
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:21,839
Speaker 1: I have written to John Winfield and left messages for

961
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 1: him explaining who I am. I wrote to John that

962
00:55:25,719 --> 00:55:30,680
Speaker 1: this podcast series Bronwin is an investigation into the disappearance

963
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:35,320
Speaker 1: in May nineteen ninety three of his missing wife. John

964
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 1: has always denied foul play. He has also always tried

965
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 1: to minimize media interest. John has insisted that Bronwin got

966
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:49,279
Speaker 1: into somebody's car one Sunday night at the house in

967
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 1: Lennox Head and that was the last time he saw

968
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:56,440
Speaker 1: her so far. He has declined to be interviewed for

969
00:55:56,600 --> 00:56:01,560
Speaker 1: this podcast investigation. I am hope that he or someone

970
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:04,600
Speaker 1: close to him speaking on his behalf, will agree to

971
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:09,319
Speaker 1: talk to me In a later episode. In a telephone

972
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:13,200
Speaker 1: interview with me, Meghan expanded on something from that morning

973
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:17,239
Speaker 1: catch up in nineteen ninety three at Sandstone Crescent, the

974
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 1: last time she saw her cousin and good friend, and

975
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:23,880
Speaker 1: Meghan recalled that Broman looked very worried.

976
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:28,240
Speaker 10: She looked really really irishy, and she said he's.

977
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:29,160
Speaker 6: Going to be back any minute.

978
00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 12: Other words, she was trying to chell us when should go.

979
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:37,240
Speaker 1: Madison Walsh has been sorting through the piles of paper

980
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:39,360
Speaker 1: in front of her while we've been talking at the

981
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 1: dining table.

982
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:43,600
Speaker 3: How deeply have you read into these files?

983
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:45,080
Speaker 10: Yeah, I've gotten quite deep.

984
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:48,440
Speaker 18: I just havn't gotten that far into the criminal inquest

985
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:52,320
Speaker 18: by for a lot of the statements and nary entries.

986
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:56,279
Speaker 1: She has come to her Auntie Meghan's home to help

987
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:58,960
Speaker 1: organize more files of evidence about the case.

988
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:02,800
Speaker 10: Grew up with a whole thing. She's heard about it

989
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:03,399
Speaker 10: all her life.

990
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:04,799
Speaker 3: I was told about.

991
00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:07,320
Speaker 18: It from a previous I can remember.

992
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 12: She's got done a bachelor in a forensic science and

993
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:12,799
Speaker 12: specializing in crime scene investigation.

994
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:19,080
Speaker 1: Brommin's fate has intrigued Maddie for years. She's been bringing

995
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:22,800
Speaker 1: order and structure to a very large number of documents.

996
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:26,480
Speaker 1: Most of these are important evidence at the heart of

997
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:30,320
Speaker 1: the disappearance and the suspected murder of the woman. Maddie

998
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:34,680
Speaker 1: grew up hearing about her mother's cousin. Great that you're

999
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:36,960
Speaker 1: going through the detail of it and reading it and

1000
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:38,200
Speaker 1: that you've got that expertise.

1001
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:45,440
Speaker 18: Here we have witness statements from nineteen ninety eight. Some

1002
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:51,560
Speaker 18: of them are from neighbors, and that's from Judy.

1003
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:52,960
Speaker 12: Nineteen ninety eight. It's the first time Eddie statements Bedegen.

1004
00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:57,280
Speaker 18: That's what got me. Why was nothing done? So we

1005
00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 18: have these statements by there five years later. The police

1006
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 18: didn't search for her, the house wasn't investigated, was at

1007
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:08,840
Speaker 18: a crime scene. Usually in this day when there's a

1008
00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:12,760
Speaker 18: missing person, there at least like a search of surrounding areas,

1009
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:17,240
Speaker 18: even if it's just volunteers. But that didn't happen. It

1010
00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 18: was like no one cared. It was like, oh, she

1011
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:22,960
Speaker 18: just ran off, that's it. Never met another phone call,

1012
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 18: never reshot to her kids, again, never traveled, didn't take

1013
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:29,320
Speaker 18: a passport. The only thing that John claims that she

1014
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:34,320
Speaker 18: took was her herme bag. Never used many care nothing, and.

1015
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:36,560
Speaker 3: Didn't have any money or not much money at.

1016
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:39,360
Speaker 10: The time, but there was money at her bank accounts.

1017
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:42,760
Speaker 1: Never been touched, so money not touched, and equity in

1018
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:45,600
Speaker 1: the house that she owned with John, yes for this,

1019
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:48,520
Speaker 1: but she didn't touch the equity, which she couldn't.

1020
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:53,240
Speaker 12: Barbara, who was Bromwin and Andrew's mother, she had personal

1021
00:58:53,440 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 12: depression after having Bromwin, and she got even worse when

1022
00:58:57,560 --> 00:58:58,600
Speaker 12: she had Andrew.

1023
00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:00,560
Speaker 10: What John was trying.

1024
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:05,800
Speaker 12: To say is that because Barbara was a paranoid schizophrenic,

1025
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:09,360
Speaker 12: and she was, and she ran away and disappeared out

1026
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:12,400
Speaker 12: of their lives when Andrew was six months old and

1027
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:15,600
Speaker 12: broman was two, and then she came back about ten

1028
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:16,280
Speaker 12: years later.

1029
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:20,840
Speaker 10: That that's what she did. So that's what he's saying now.

1030
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 12: I distinctly remember Bromwin saying, if anything happens to me,

1031
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:28,960
Speaker 12: that's what he's going to say. With Bromwan's mother, it

1032
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:33,400
Speaker 12: was brought on by post natal depression after having children.

1033
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:34,480
Speaker 7: Both mother.

1034
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:39,800
Speaker 3: While I went, oh, good girl, this is really helpful Maddie,

1035
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:40,640
Speaker 3: thank you.

1036
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:46,000
Speaker 1: Numerous printouts of emails over the years may also hold

1037
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:48,000
Speaker 1: clues and fresh leads.

1038
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:51,760
Speaker 10: So many she kind of sought them into dates of what's.

1039
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:52,320
Speaker 7: Kind of going on.

1040
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:56,400
Speaker 1: How do you feel about being part of this investigation

1041
00:59:56,480 --> 00:59:56,720
Speaker 1: with me?

1042
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:00,160
Speaker 9: I love to so.

1043
01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:03,520
Speaker 3: Do you think you can be objective.

1044
01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 1: About it though your knowledge of the family, your expertise?

1045
01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:08,320
Speaker 10: Definitely, she never met her.

1046
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:11,280
Speaker 18: I did hear about it all the time, but I

1047
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:14,040
Speaker 18: never knew her. That was what I was talking to

1048
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:17,720
Speaker 18: Megan and Kim about. Obviously, for them, a lot of

1049
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:22,160
Speaker 18: emotions would drive it, and it can blur the evidence.

1050
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:26,520
Speaker 18: I am disconnected from it because it happened before I

1051
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 18: was born.

1052
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:33,480
Speaker 1: What if we found some evidence that suggested that the

1053
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:38,360
Speaker 1: person your family believes killed your auntie didn't.

1054
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:40,560
Speaker 10: Do that, then that would be okay.

1055
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:44,680
Speaker 18: I would understand that, And there is a possibility that

1056
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:46,960
Speaker 18: it wasn't who my family thinks.

1057
01:00:48,040 --> 01:00:51,560
Speaker 1: Thanks to the family tree drawn by Maddie, I realized

1058
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:55,200
Speaker 1: that Bromwin, if she were alive, would be Maddie's second cousin,

1059
01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:56,600
Speaker 1: not an auntie.

1060
01:00:57,400 --> 01:01:00,959
Speaker 18: So if it turns out she did run away, I'd

1061
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:03,959
Speaker 18: be like, okay, we have evidence of that.

1062
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:05,200
Speaker 7: We know that.

1063
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:09,120
Speaker 18: I do have no open mind, and I have questioned

1064
01:01:09,160 --> 01:01:12,440
Speaker 18: everything that Megan has told me. I'm like, how do

1065
01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:15,560
Speaker 18: you know? How do you know this didn't happen? How

1066
01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:19,640
Speaker 18: do you know she shouldn't run off? Why are you

1067
01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:20,720
Speaker 18: blaming this one guy?

1068
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:25,720
Speaker 1: This record of interview with Winfield is obviously a crucial.

1069
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:27,480
Speaker 10: Document, seventy six pages.

1070
01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:29,920
Speaker 1: We haven't seen a tape of this anyway. Do you

1071
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:30,960
Speaker 1: have some photographs of it?

1072
01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:31,439
Speaker 11: Yeah?

1073
01:01:31,600 --> 01:01:32,920
Speaker 10: I do, I got it.

1074
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:36,960
Speaker 12: That's when the day she booked John over to me

1075
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:38,360
Speaker 12: I was living in Double Bow.

1076
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:41,880
Speaker 3: Open a folder just for selected plans. Thanks Manny.

1077
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:51,640
Speaker 12: That's brain Baby, that is John the first time I'm eating,

1078
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:56,480
Speaker 12: And that's Crystal to the left hand side.

1079
01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:57,720
Speaker 10: That's Brawn and I.

1080
01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:04,760
Speaker 12: That's Jodie to step to it, Michelle, mum, Bromwin and myself.

1081
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:07,600
Speaker 10: She's such a good mother.

1082
01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:08,320
Speaker 11: Thought.

1083
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:14,640
Speaker 12: But that's Crystal starther Mark Davis, who's deceased. That's Ronnie

1084
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:23,560
Speaker 12: on the track. She's gone there, she's gone there to

1085
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:38,240
Speaker 12: thest family photos. She's gone.

1086
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:45,400
Speaker 1: Bronwyn is written and investigated by me Headley Thomas as

1087
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:50,200
Speaker 1: a podcast production for The Australian. If anyone has information

1088
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:54,240
Speaker 1: which may help solve this cold case. Please contact me

1089
01:02:54,400 --> 01:03:00,720
Speaker 1: confidentially by emailing Bronwyn at the Australian dot com dot Au.

1090
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:04,360
Speaker 1: You can read more about this case and see a

1091
01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:08,880
Speaker 1: range of photographs and other artwork at the website Bromwyn

1092
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:15,160
Speaker 1: Podcast dot com. Our subscribers and registered users here episodes first.

1093
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:20,320
Speaker 1: The production and editorial team for bromwin includes Claire Harvey,

1094
01:03:20,440 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 1: Kristin Amiert, Joshua Burton, Bridget, Ryan Bianca, far Marcus, Katie Burns,

1095
01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:31,080
Speaker 1: Liam Mendez, Sean Callen and Matthew Condon and David Murray.

1096
01:03:31,880 --> 01:03:35,800
Speaker 1: Audio production for this podcast series is by Wasabi Audio

1097
01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:40,400
Speaker 1: and original theme music by Slade Gibson. We have been

1098
01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:44,760
Speaker 1: assisted by Madison Walsh, a relation of Bromwan Winfield. We

1099
01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:47,720
Speaker 1: can only do this kind of journalism with the support

1100
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:51,760
Speaker 1: of our subscribers and our major sponsors like Harvey Norman.

1101
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:56,760
Speaker 1: For all of our exclusive stories, videos, maps, timelines and

1102
01:03:56,880 --> 01:04:01,360
Speaker 1: documents about this podcast and other podcasts including The Teacher's Pet,

1103
01:04:01,640 --> 01:04:06,200
Speaker 1: The Teacher's Trial, The Teacher's Accuser, Shandy Story, Shandy's Legacy

1104
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:10,240
Speaker 1: and The Night Driver, go to the Australian dot com

1105
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:13,680
Speaker 1: dot Au and subscribe