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Speaker 1: She's pickled inside and out. She's toughened inside and out.

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Speaker 1: She's lost pretty much everyone close to her by death, disease,

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Speaker 1: or her own bad behavior. She's burnt a million bridges,

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Speaker 1: but she just keeps going because she has nothing. You know,

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Speaker 1: she has no other form of resistance than to keep persevering.

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Speaker 1: I do find that quite admirable in any ways, she

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Speaker 1: puts up with conditions that would flaw most people.

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Speaker 2: I'm Jen Kelly from The Herald Son and this is

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Speaker 2: In Black and White, a podcast about some of Australia's

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Speaker 2: forgotten characters. Today, we're back for part two of the

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Speaker 2: story of vaudeville performer Mabel Walley. Make sure you listen

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Speaker 2: to part one first. We're chatting again with Carin Ball,

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Speaker 2: Senior curator at the History Trust of South Australia. As

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Speaker 2: we heard in part one, Mabel gave birth in a

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Speaker 2: destitute asylum after falling pregnant in scandalous circumstances, then ran

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Speaker 2: away and joined a circus. Left part one, Mabel was

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Speaker 2: beginning her journey onto the stage. Let's jump back in

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Speaker 2: to find out what happened next. So back to South Africa.

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Speaker 2: So eighteen ninety nine. What's happened next? So they finished

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Speaker 2: the tour and then home, Yes, so without incident, I

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Speaker 2: hope without incident.

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Speaker 1: Yes, they come home briefly, and then they start another

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Speaker 1: contract in nineteen oh three, and the trail kind of

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Speaker 1: goes a little bit cold there. I haven't quite worked

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Speaker 1: out how Eleanor who is then going by a stage

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Speaker 1: name which I'm not going to tell you. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to be a bit kober. She eventually makes her way

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Speaker 1: back to Australia, I think via England, but I don't

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Speaker 1: have any records of her performing there, but I'm fairly

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Speaker 1: certain she arrives under her stage name in England. But somehow,

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Speaker 1: at some point, by nineteen oh four, she's back in

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Speaker 1: Australia and Mabel is in trouble. So Mabel has been

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Speaker 1: I don't know what she's been doing between nineteen hundreds

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Speaker 1: and nineteen oh four, but something goes terribly wrong and

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Speaker 1: there seems to be a rift between Mabel and her daughter.

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Speaker 1: So by nineteen oh four, her daughter is now nearly sixteen,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I've got a sixteen year old girl home,

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Speaker 1: so I know what they're like. And this young lady

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Speaker 1: has a mind of her own. She wants to play

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Speaker 1: on the stage, and she wants to be in the

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Speaker 1: circus with her uncle, Mabel's brother. And Mabel is really

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Speaker 1: starting to get into trouble with the law. She's living

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Speaker 1: in Melbourne, away from the circus from the family show.

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Speaker 1: She starts to get into trouble for bad behavior and

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Speaker 1: living rough and for drinking in public. And soon in

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Speaker 1: nineteen oh five, she really things go really badly for

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Speaker 1: her and she gets a four year sentence for being

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Speaker 1: an accessory to larceny. So, yes, something has gone terribly

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Speaker 1: terribly wrong, and I don't know what it is, and

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Speaker 1: I will never stop looking to try and unpick this.

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Speaker 1: I don't know exactly what happens. There's some kind of

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Speaker 1: family rift and she and her daughter part ways. Okay,

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Speaker 1: a Pentridge. So in the book there's the mug shots,

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Speaker 1: which I think you've seen, And that was when I

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Speaker 1: found those. When I found those mug shots on the

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Speaker 1: Public Records Office of Victoria website, I think that was

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Speaker 1: twenty eighteen. I hadn't ever actually seen a picture of

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Speaker 1: Mabel until then. We didn't know what she looked like

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Speaker 1: when we did the gallery, and so the only images

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Speaker 1: I've ever had of her have been mugshots. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't both as well, but you know, so she gets this,

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Speaker 1: she gets this sentence in nineteen oh five, and by

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Speaker 1: the time she comes back out again, she is aged

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Speaker 1: a decade and she's only been in prison for three years.

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Speaker 2: And just for the benefit of our listeners, can you

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Speaker 2: describe the mugshots or what you draw from those mug shots?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so the first one is done not long after

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Speaker 1: she's been sentenced. I'm assuming she's had her hair cut,

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Speaker 1: so her hair is very short. She obviously wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: a thing, wouldn't cause any issues now, but at the

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Speaker 1: time was very demeaning for women to have their haircut.

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Speaker 1: It obviously was to do things like prevent life, but

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Speaker 1: yes had the extra added dimension of making them almost

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Speaker 1: unwomanly because women always had long hair at the time.

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Speaker 1: So she has this short, very short haircut. Her face

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Speaker 1: is kind of round, and she has this almost kind

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Speaker 1: of deer in the headlights look. And so she's got

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Speaker 1: a face on face on and a side profile. And

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Speaker 1: then next to that are two photos in similar so

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Speaker 1: her face on a profile that were taken in nineteen

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Speaker 1: oh eight, just before she's released, and She's only thirty

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Speaker 1: six in that second set of pictures, but she looks

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Speaker 1: a decade older to me.

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Speaker 2: She actually actually looks to me like she's in her fifties.

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Speaker 2: But she does have like a hint of a smile

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Speaker 2: on her face, which I found quite intriguing. I was

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Speaker 2: wondering what was making her smile. Perhaps something the photographer said.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think she's had a really rough time while

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Speaker 1: she's been inside. You know, she hasn't seen her family

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Speaker 1: for over three years. All sorts of things have happened

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Speaker 1: in the background, and really I think she's at a

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Speaker 1: point where they can't really throw anything else at her.

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Speaker 1: She has experienced the worst that she can experience. Also,

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Speaker 1: she thinks at that point, and I think she discovers

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Speaker 1: this kind of grit inside her that has to get

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Speaker 1: her through this three year sentence. Yes, so she does

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Speaker 1: have this kind of knowing smile almost or she's really

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Speaker 1: kind of you know, eyeballing the photographer and saying, you

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Speaker 1: think you're in a position of power, but I've got

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Speaker 1: this structure that is holding me up inside.

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Speaker 2: Now, Karin, if you're happy to share the mugshots with me,

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Speaker 2: I would love to add them to the story that

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Speaker 2: accompanies this podcast for our readers to see. So that's

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Speaker 2: the story that's in The Herald's son in print and

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Speaker 2: also online. Are you happy to do that, of course,

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Speaker 2: so that readers and listeners can see what we're talking

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Speaker 2: about as well.

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Speaker 1: Yes, she's an interesting looking lady. She's certainly not beauty

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Speaker 1: by the standards of the day, but she has real

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Speaker 1: in her face and that was one of the things

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Speaker 1: I think that really kind of spurred me onwards.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. And while we're talking about photos, there's a picture

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Speaker 2: on the front of your book, and it's not a

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Speaker 2: photo of her, but it's what you have imagined she

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Speaker 2: might have looked like during her circus career. So where

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Speaker 2: did you get the picture from? And can you describe

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Speaker 2: what that picture is like?

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Speaker 1: So it's a postcard from the National Library of an

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Speaker 1: unnamed French artist performing artist. So it's a black and

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Speaker 1: white picture that's been colorized by hand. So it's a

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Speaker 1: lady with a gorgeous pink kind of chiffon, almost Greek

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Speaker 1: goddess kind of costume, but very short in the leg.

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Speaker 1: You can just see a little kind of flash of

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Speaker 1: white tights underneath, and she's holding a set of diablos,

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Speaker 1: so juggling sticks with the string and the little kind

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Speaker 1: of yo yo thing that jumps on the string. And

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Speaker 1: so she is in this beautiful kind of classicals. She's

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Speaker 1: got ribbons in her hair, her lips have been painted.

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Speaker 1: It's just just as soon as I saw it, I said,

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Speaker 1: that is the cover of the book, and so it's

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Speaker 1: my own little piece of vaudeville and circus flim flam.

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Speaker 1: It's not Mabel, but it certainly could have been someone

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Speaker 1: like Mabel, and it's very likely that she wore something

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Speaker 1: like that when she was performing. You know, the whole

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Speaker 1: the whole circus of vaudeville thing is about an actor

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Speaker 1: would be given a new costume and new makeup and

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Speaker 1: then passed off as a new person or four different

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Speaker 1: acts would actually be comprised of the same people, but

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Speaker 1: they've been you know, they've had changes to make them

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Speaker 1: look like different people. So there's there's all this kind

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Speaker 1: of sleight of hand that happens in these shows. You know,

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Speaker 1: a performer like Elna, who might have been seven or

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Speaker 1: eight or nine, would be would be billed as a

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Speaker 1: child of five Summers, you know, to make it seem

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Speaker 1: more exciting. That they're younger than they should than they

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Speaker 1: actually are, all of these things. So using that picture, yes,

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Speaker 1: it's my own way of kind of getting into the

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Speaker 1: mindset of in vaudeville and theater truth, whatever you say

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Speaker 1: it is. So there we go. That's where that picture

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Speaker 1: comes from.

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Speaker 2: I look at that picture and I think, how far

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Speaker 2: has she come in her life from this destitute asylum

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Speaker 2: girl to this amazing world, This amazing world where she's

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Speaker 2: traveling around the world, this vaudeville life, traveling from continent

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Speaker 2: to continent on the stage. She came so far and

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Speaker 2: then she fell so far to end up in Penridge

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Speaker 2: for four years for the crime of larceny, you know,

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Speaker 2: an incredible an incredible, colorful life, a tragic life. Do

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Speaker 2: we know any more about the crime that she ended

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Speaker 2: up in Penridge for?

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Speaker 1: So she's an accessory to larsony. So essentially what happens

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Speaker 1: is that she meets a gentleman called mister Pert on

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Speaker 1: the streets in Melbourne and she takes him back to

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Speaker 1: a hotel where her side man or whatever beats him up.

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Speaker 1: So it's a shakedown. The intimation is that she may

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Speaker 1: have been doing sex work, although she's not actually accused

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Speaker 1: of prostitution in her trial, actually recommends clemency, but the

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Speaker 1: judge is not having it, and he gives her this

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Speaker 1: four year sentence and she serves just under three years.

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Speaker 1: So she's just at the really unfortunate end of some

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Speaker 1: new kind of legislation and the way of dealing with

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Speaker 1: particularly destitute women on the street. There was a lot

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Speaker 1: of anxiety in Melbourne in the late nineteenth early twentieth

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Speaker 1: century that street population was increasing and that it's you know,

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Speaker 1: a place of immorality and bad behavior and sex and

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Speaker 1: money and all this kind of stuff. So she's really

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Speaker 1: unfortunate that she's kind of tired with this thrush because

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Speaker 1: up until then, the worst offense that she'd committed was

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Speaker 1: bad language. And she gets, you know, she gets a

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Speaker 1: fine for that. What she does five days in the

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Speaker 1: lock up if she can't pay the fine, that sort

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Speaker 1: of thing. So she's very much at the edges of

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Speaker 1: the criminal world at that point, and then she gets

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Speaker 1: this stinging sentence and when she comes out, really that

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Speaker 1: means that she is now considered part of the criminal

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Speaker 1: underclass and it all goes downhill from there. Essentially. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: poor Mabel, it's like watching a car craft from one

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Speaker 1: hundred years distant, and every time I just wish, just once,

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Speaker 1: just please once, can she not muck it up? You

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Speaker 1: want her to do well. She tries so hard in

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Speaker 1: some ways. In another way she doesn't try at all,

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Speaker 1: because that's mable for you. But you know, she has

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Speaker 1: this spirit and spark that I found completely irresistible. So

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Speaker 1: when things start to go wrong, she starts to slide

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Speaker 1: down the social scale and she ends up with a

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Speaker 1: series of sentences for being drunk and vagrant. So because

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Speaker 1: she's on house, she's homeless, and she's living rough and

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Speaker 1: you know, working and doing all this sort of stuff.

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Speaker 1: And so she's in and out of Penridge, in and

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Speaker 1: out of Pentridge, in and out of Pentridge. She does

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Speaker 1: a couple of sessions with people like the Salvation Army,

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Speaker 1: and there's St. Vincent de Paul's to do what we

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Speaker 1: would now think of as probably rehab because she's drinking

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Speaker 1: by this point. But nothing really sticks for her, and

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Speaker 1: so she just the next few decades are really moving

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Speaker 1: from place to place, trying to make her fresh start

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Speaker 1: and then unsuccessfully doing so. But she does have some

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Speaker 1: really big adventures along the way. So as she slides

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Speaker 1: down the social scale. She'd becomes stuck in this cycle

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Speaker 1: of she is living rough, she's drinking, she's getting into trouble.

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Speaker 1: She does a few short sentences and then she's of

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Speaker 1: course more noticeable to the police because she's been in

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Speaker 1: the lock up recently, so she tries to make a

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Speaker 1: break for it. She actually comes back to South Australia

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Speaker 1: in nineteen twelve and she's trying to she's trying to

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Speaker 1: do the best she can. But within a few days

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Speaker 1: really of landing, she's back in prison for sleeping rough

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Speaker 1: on Hindley Street. She can't leave Hindley Street, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's her home and her spiritual home. And so she

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Speaker 1: is given a chance and she's allowed to leave Adelaide

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Speaker 1: to make a new start in the country, and she

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Speaker 1: ends up in Port Lincoln and she very quickly shacks

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Speaker 1: up with a very unsuitable man called MacDonald. At this

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Speaker 1: point she's putting on a Scottish accent and pretending that

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Speaker 1: she's from Scotland. She's using this theatrical vent all the time,

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Speaker 1: which is another reason why I'm so fond of her.

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Speaker 1: She's just clearly very clever and thinks on her feet

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Speaker 1: but when she's in Port Lincoln, she does a couple

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Speaker 1: of short sentences for being drunk. By that time, she's

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Speaker 1: actually addicted to methylated spirits, so she's desperate for a drink.

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Speaker 1: And so when she's in Port Link and Jail, at

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Speaker 1: one point she just pushes a load of boxes against

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Speaker 1: a low fence in the cell yard and hooks it

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Speaker 1: over a ship. Yeah, she stated this wonderful one woman

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Speaker 1: prison break. She's picked up an hour later by the car. Oh,

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Speaker 1: desperate for a drink. She says she feels like she's

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Speaker 1: dying because she has probably got the DTS, so she

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Speaker 1: probably really feels like she's dying. So, yes, it's not

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Speaker 1: a very successful prison break. But just the fact that

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Speaker 1: she sees this opportunity and decides to take it good

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Speaker 1: for her quite charming. Yes, you know, she just refuses

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Speaker 1: to be contained.

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Speaker 2: So how old was she at this point?

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Speaker 1: So that's nineteen twelve or third, So she's forty at

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Speaker 1: that point. She's still young by any.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and she's still got plenty of years.

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Speaker 1: To live she has, Yes, she's got plenty of plenty

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Speaker 1: of spirit and spark. But you know, once she's caught

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Speaker 1: after having made this one woman prison break, she gets

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Speaker 1: sent to Adelaide jail and then it's all over. You know,

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Speaker 1: she can't there's no more coffee over fences when you're

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Speaker 1: at Adelaide jail. And unfortunately she's also caught up in a

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Speaker 1: cycle of another piece of legislation that doesn't work in

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Speaker 1: her favor. So in nineteen thirteen, South Australia introduces the

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Speaker 1: Inebriates Act. It's a way of dealing with problem drinking.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of social concern about excessive alcohol consumption,

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Speaker 1: of course, particularly by working class people, and women's drinking

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Speaker 1: in particular is seen as really problematic because there are

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Speaker 1: all sorts of implications for the you know, for the

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Speaker 1: future of Australia as a nation, and the sort of

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Speaker 1: people and children that women are producing if they're you know,

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Speaker 1: if they're a low character or low physical attribute because

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Speaker 1: they're drinking. So there's a lot of anxiety about this

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Speaker 1: sort of thing. So South Australia introduces this new legislation

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Speaker 1: which convicted inebriates. If you get if you get arrested

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Speaker 1: for being drunk more than three times in a twelve

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Speaker 1: month period, you're then given a compulsory sentence as a

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Speaker 1: convicted inebriate, and the first sentence is eighteen months, the

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Speaker 1: second sentence is two years, and the third sentence onwards

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Speaker 1: is at his at his majesty's pleasure. So really unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: whereas in Melbourne she might have got three months, four months,

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Speaker 1: six months for being drunken disorderly, in Adelaide she's suddenly

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Speaker 1: doing these very very long sentences.

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Speaker 2: So the prisons must have just been full.

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Speaker 1: Well, see what happens is that Adelaide Jail and sorry

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Speaker 1: part of Adelaide Jail and Gladstone Jail are gazetted as

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Speaker 1: inebriates institutions, so they become this kind of place that

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Speaker 1: we would now think of potentially as rehab. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's supposed to be an inebriates retreat, it's supposed to

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Speaker 1: be a place where they can dry out and you know,

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Speaker 1: get back on their feet, but essentially it's jail. They're

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Speaker 1: in jail being looked after by prison warden's doing exactly

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Speaker 1: the same backbreaking work that prisoners are doing, and in

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Speaker 1: fact they're in for longer sentences and then they're subject

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Speaker 1: to more stringent controls afterwards because they're released on license

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Speaker 1: and if they break their license again then they immediately

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Speaker 1: get the second longer sentence. So she does eighteen months

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Speaker 1: and she's only out for a month or two, breaks

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Speaker 1: her license and she has to go back in again

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Speaker 1: for two years, and she begs in begs in court,

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Speaker 1: you know, please don't send me back there. I've just

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Speaker 1: done nineteen months actually at Gladstone, and you know, she

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Speaker 1: comes down to Adelaide and she has some teeth out,

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Speaker 1: and she has some cocaine which is legally prescribed, but

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Speaker 1: then she decides to have a couple of glasses of

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Speaker 1: brandy on top and passes out in light square. Because

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Speaker 1: she's broken her parole, she is sent back for two years.

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Speaker 1: So it's a really quite tough system, and she is

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Speaker 1: right at the pointy end of it. She is Gladstone's

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Speaker 1: female and the Brittan number two and Adelaide Jail's female

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Speaker 1: neb Brittan number four, So she is right at the

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Speaker 1: beginning of this new system coming in and it doesn't

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Speaker 1: play out well for her. Over the next decade, between

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirteen and nineteen twenty three, she spends what years,

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Speaker 1: nearly seven or eight years in jail in total, and

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Speaker 1: she's only out for weeks sometimes months before she's back again,

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Speaker 1: and it's really tough conditions as well. And then of

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Speaker 1: course the war comes and everything gets tougher, you know,

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Speaker 1: the rations get tougher in prison, and water is really

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Speaker 1: bad at Gladstone and they have to boil it all

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Speaker 1: and it's just a really, really unpleasant environment.

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Speaker 2: We'll be back shortly to hear more about Mabel's life,

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Speaker 2: so stay with us. And after that, did she get

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Speaker 2: out for good or was she still in and out

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Speaker 2: of prison for the rest of her life?

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Speaker 1: Oh, Mabel. She eventually goes back to Melbourne in nineteen

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Speaker 1: twenty three, so she you know, she has burnt all

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Speaker 1: her bridges, but the magistrate who picks her up gives

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Speaker 1: her a train pass and tells her to go. You know,

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Speaker 1: they'll hold off sending her back to prison if she

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Speaker 1: you know, for a day or two until she leaves.

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Speaker 1: And at this point she's still trying to get in

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Speaker 1: touch with her brother's circus. Her brother circus has been

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Speaker 1: to New Zealand for several years and then come back,

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Speaker 1: and she says that she's going to meet them at

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Speaker 1: Langhorn Creek at one point, but then she MUCKs it

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Speaker 1: up again and she ends up in the Slammer when

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Speaker 1: they're going past and she misses them. She she marries

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Speaker 1: Big Musley in nineteen eighteen, so she marries her second

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Speaker 1: husband while her first husband is alive and well in

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Speaker 1: Western Australia, and her second husband is another one of these.

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Speaker 1: His name is Patrick Madden. He's a tall, quite good

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Speaker 1: looking Irishman who's also one of these people who drinks

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Speaker 1: in the west end of Finley Street, around Light Square

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Speaker 1: and all that lot. She comes out of prison just

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Speaker 1: after Armistice in nineteen eighteen, so the end of the

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Speaker 1: war in nineteen eighteen. She's only out for three days

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Speaker 1: before she marries Patrick Madden, so something must have been

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Speaker 1: going on there. They must have known each other beforehand,

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Speaker 1: or it was a really well wind romance. But it

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Speaker 1: doesn't last. He's back in the Slammer in weeks and

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Speaker 1: so is she, and there's no indication that they actually

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Speaker 1: reconcile in any way. So yeah, she's living this very

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Speaker 1: kind of hand to mouth life when she's not in prison,

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Speaker 1: but the bulk of her time she is in prison,

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Speaker 1: which is why in nineteen twenty three she takes this

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Speaker 1: free pass to go back to Melbourne, and after that

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Speaker 1: she never comes back to South Australia, which is really

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Speaker 1: quite sad. So she's in Melbourne and she has all

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Speaker 1: these great ambitions that she's going to live a life

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Speaker 1: of the straightened arrow and she's going to be a

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Speaker 1: good girl. But that never really works out for Mabel.

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Speaker 1: She just can't help herself, and really, I mean she

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Speaker 1: becomes institutionalized. So she does again more sentences for being vagrant,

355
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Speaker 1: for being drunken, disorderly, for bad language, and really spends

356
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Speaker 1: the next ten years after she gets back to Melbourne

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Speaker 1: doing that. It's a pretty sad it's a pretty sad tale.

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Speaker 1: But again has all the you know, has the occasional

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Speaker 1: light moment. She's arrested at one point for dancing in

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Speaker 1: the middle of Victoria Street in Melbourne's CBD in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the night, and you know it, goes off

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Speaker 1: to Pentridge to do a few weeks after doing that.

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Speaker 1: So she has these wonderful little light moments, and you know,

364
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Speaker 1: she's she's lived a very vibrant life. She's very interested

365
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Speaker 1: in music and the stage, I think, and I think

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Speaker 1: there are lots of you know, live performance is still

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Speaker 1: a massive, massive thing at that point. So I think

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Speaker 1: she's trying to kind of move in this in this world,

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Speaker 1: and you know, maybe she hangs around theater doors and

370
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Speaker 1: you know, tries to get in and see shows and

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Speaker 1: stuff all that kind of thing. I don't have a

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Speaker 1: lot of evidence about what her life outside of prison

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Speaker 1: is like, other than the fact that she is writing

374
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Speaker 1: letters to try and catch up with her brother's circus,

375
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Speaker 1: and she's trying to you know, she does more time

376
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Speaker 1: with the Salvasian Army in Melbourne as well, having done

377
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:04,040
Speaker 1: time with them in Adelaide. So she tries all these

378
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,920
Speaker 1: different approaches, but nothing quite sticks for her. And then

379
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Speaker 1: towards the end of her life, it's the nineteen thirties,

380
00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:15,560
Speaker 1: the depression has come. Street life in Melbourne is really tough,

381
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Speaker 1: you know. Nineteen thirty three, George Orwell releases his book

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Speaker 1: Down and Out in Paris and London, which tells you

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Speaker 1: a lot about what life on the street would have

384
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Speaker 1: been like at this period. And women are a very

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Speaker 1: small part of this world. You know, they might be

386
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Speaker 1: five to ten percent of the homeless population in Melbourne

387
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Speaker 1: at the time. You know, they are a tiny, reviled

388
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Speaker 1: subset of a subset of society that has already reviled

389
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Speaker 1: by the mainstream, and so it's a really tough existence,

390
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,040
Speaker 1: you know. But you can see by her criminal record

391
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Speaker 1: that she is essentially living a living rough in a

392
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Speaker 1: patch of suburbs that moves around from Melbourne, North Melbourne, Carlton, Fitzroy.

393
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Speaker 1: She's kind of pacing these areas like almost like a

394
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Speaker 1: caged animals and the institutionalized. She doesn't want to be

395
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Speaker 1: in jail, but she also can't cope when she's not

396
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Speaker 1: in jail. It's a sad thing to have to watch

397
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Speaker 1: and to put myself in that mindset. I actually spent

398
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Speaker 1: a long weekend in Melbourne in the rain, walking around

399
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Speaker 1: those cobblestone streets in Fitzroy and Carton and North Melbourne,

400
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:19,359
Speaker 1: trying to feel what that felt like. And it was

401
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,160
Speaker 1: quite it was quite challenging. You know, I'm a woman

402
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Speaker 1: over fifty and I was walking around these streets in

403
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Speaker 1: the rain and the cold, and I could go back

404
00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,720
Speaker 1: to my hotel any time I liked. It was really

405
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,679
Speaker 1: you know, illuminating to kind of put myself in that

406
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,480
Speaker 1: mindset of you know, what would it have been like

407
00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:40,200
Speaker 1: for her, you know, she would have been going from.

408
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,000
Speaker 1: You know, she might have had a cup of tea

409
00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:44,399
Speaker 1: for breakfast with the Salvation Army in one suburb and

410
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,520
Speaker 1: then walked to the other side of the city to

411
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Speaker 1: go and have lunch at a soup kitchen, and then

412
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,640
Speaker 1: walk to a different suburb for the evening to find

413
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Speaker 1: somewhere to doss, you know, for a doss house or

414
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:55,159
Speaker 1: under a bridge, or she might have been able to

415
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:58,879
Speaker 1: get into a temporary accommodation of some description. But she

416
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:01,760
Speaker 1: doesn't like doing though, is because the approach in lots

417
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 1: of those places is plain food, lots of prayer, lots

418
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:09,880
Speaker 1: of introspection. I think that really works for her. So

419
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 1: she is moving around this small set of inner Melbourne

420
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Speaker 1: suburbs trying to make her way in and out of prison.

421
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Speaker 1: And one of the things that I realized when I

422
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,439
Speaker 1: was doing the research for this, as she gets older,

423
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Speaker 1: the gaps between her incarcerations get shorter and shorter and shorter.

424
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Speaker 1: In her thirties or forties, she might have had months,

425
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Speaker 1: maybe even half a year or a year or more

426
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,920
Speaker 1: where she's not in prison. When she's in her fifties

427
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,880
Speaker 1: and going into her sixties, she's out for a fortnight

428
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,199
Speaker 1: or a week three before she's back in again for

429
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 1: three months or two months or a month or whatever.

430
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:48,440
Speaker 1: So it's a very kind of relentless, relentless life.

431
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,200
Speaker 2: And she was obviously a heavy drinker, and she spent

432
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 2: years in prison, so it's pretty remarkable that she lived

433
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 2: such a long life. So she was what late sixties

434
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 2: or early seventies by the time she dies.

435
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:07,679
Speaker 1: She dies and she's pickled inside and out. She's toughened

436
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 1: inside and out. She's lost pretty much everyone close to

437
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:16,040
Speaker 1: her by death, disease, or her own bad behavior. She's

438
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 1: burnt a million bridges. But she just keeps going because

439
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 1: she has nothing. You know, she has no other form

440
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 1: of resistance than to keep persevering. And I do find

441
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 1: that quite admirable in many ways. You know, she puts

442
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 1: up with conditions that would flow most people. She endure,

443
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 1: endures trauma and tragedy that would you know, sideline anybody,

444
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,119
Speaker 1: But she keeps going, you know, there's that phrase. But

445
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,560
Speaker 1: she persisted, and she does. She just keeps going because

446
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 1: she has no other choice. She has, you know, she

447
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 1: has not a lot of education, not a lot of

448
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,639
Speaker 1: family left by this point, very few options. She doesn't

449
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 1: really have a skill or a trade. She's done a

450
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 1: hell of a lot of laundry and a hell of

451
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,920
Speaker 1: a lot of sewing in prison. She probably never wants

452
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,959
Speaker 1: to scrub a floor again, you know, and she's you know,

453
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 1: this is the inverse of her high points of her

454
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:08,359
Speaker 1: career of being on the stage in New Zealand, giving

455
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 1: this vital, exciting life under the electric lights of the theater.

456
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,120
Speaker 2: And then I hope she at least had her memory

457
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,119
Speaker 2: right up until the end and could remember those incredible days.

458
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely she does. Because one of the things I

459
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 1: found very late in the piece while I was doing

460
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,879
Speaker 1: my trip to Melbourne where I and that was like

461
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 1: there was that little window in twenty twenty one where

462
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 1: you could go to Melbourne for a few weeks at

463
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 1: the beginning of twenty twenty one when they between their lockdowns,

464
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 1: and that was when I went and walked around in

465
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,119
Speaker 1: the rain and literally I was at the airport on

466
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,639
Speaker 1: the way back Google it, you know, going through Trove,

467
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 1: which is the online newspapers through the National Winmy of

468
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 1: Australia one hundred percent recommend fabulous resource. I was looking

469
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 1: just to see if I could find an end to

470
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 1: this story because I've spent this weekend, you know, walking

471
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 1: around in the rain feeling, oh my god, how the

472
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 1: hell am I going to end this story? And I

473
00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 1: found a newspaper report that says that she is sent

474
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 1: to Ballarat Benevolent Home in mid to late nineteen thirty six.

475
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 1: She's had a fall of suther description probably just you know,

476
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 1: a drunken tumble in the street. Although she says in

477
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: that she's interviewed or she's interviewed by repute, it says

478
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 1: that she's had an accident in the circus. But that's poppycock.

479
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 1: You know, she hasn't been in the circus for twenty

480
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,919
Speaker 1: or thirty years at that point. But you know, as

481
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 1: Mabel always does, she tries to put a gloss on it.

482
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 1: And so she's at Ballarat Benevolent Asylum and she catches

483
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,159
Speaker 1: wind that her brother's circus is coming to Ballarat for

484
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 1: the first time in a long time, and she pulls

485
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 1: whatever strings she has left and she gets the old

486
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 1: men from the asylum to be able to go to

487
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,959
Speaker 1: the circus show for free. Fabulous. So yeah, she doesn't

488
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 1: go because she is bedridden after a fall that she

489
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 1: In the report, it says, you know, because she's had

490
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 1: an accident when she was working in the circus, which,

491
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 1: as I said, I know that that's not correct, so

492
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 1: she doesn't go, but she makes this arrangement so she's

493
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,119
Speaker 1: still even after all that time and all the bridges

494
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: that she's burnt and all the people that she's lost,

495
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 1: she has enough connections to make that happen. And that

496
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 1: was a wonderful way for me to finish the story,

497
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 1: because she dies only a few months later. She dies

498
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 1: early in nineteen thirty seven, and it just seemed to me,

499
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 1: you know, it's her final performance. She has this very

500
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: very high and then she has these very very lows,

501
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: and then I like to think of her, you know,

502
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: tucked up at ballaratte Asylum in her bed, you know,

503
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: sending telegrams or making these requests for the circus to come,

504
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 1: and she's got this captive audience for all these incredible

505
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: tales that she can tell, these tall stories, and some

506
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: of them might even be true, and you know that

507
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 1: she can have this one last performance of being this

508
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 1: aging circus star who still has some cachet and can

509
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,919
Speaker 1: still pull these strings. And to me, that was just

510
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,199
Speaker 1: a wonderful place to end did because it's like a

511
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 1: kind of you know, last minute redemption of her. And

512
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 1: I was so pleased when I found that newspaper report

513
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:10,239
Speaker 1: because I had really worried about how I was going

514
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:14,199
Speaker 1: to finish this really quite tale and then yeah, so

515
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,399
Speaker 1: she's just doing this last little show just for the

516
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: audience of the Benevolent Home, pretending to be you know,

517
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 1: the former start of stage and ring that in some

518
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 1: ways she was. And so yeah, that was that was

519
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: the end. She dies very early in nineteen thirty seven

520
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: of senile decay, which is you know, it was very

521
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 1: commonly listed as the cause of death, but realistically she

522
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,400
Speaker 1: was pretty pickled by that point. And she is buried

523
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,880
Speaker 1: at Ballarat New Cemetery, which I went to last year.

524
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 1: Had a little cry. She's in an unmarked section, so

525
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 1: there's just a lawned area. A lot of the older

526
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,159
Speaker 1: particularly the pauper graves, aren't very well recorded, and so

527
00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 1: what the cemetery has done is there's a lovely, beautiful

528
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: lawned area under some trees with a big like a

529
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,399
Speaker 1: big round rock that's got a memorial plaque on it

530
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 1: that says, you know, there are thousands of people buried

531
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:10,440
Speaker 1: in this area. But we don't have any specific information

532
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,159
Speaker 1: about where the exact graves are, so I took a

533
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,360
Speaker 1: little bunch of flowers and I laid it on the memorial.

534
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,879
Speaker 1: I had a little cry under the trees. And I

535
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 1: had never felt at any closer to her than I

536
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,239
Speaker 1: did at that moment, which was really cool. Yeah, for

537
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: eight years I worked in the building that she had

538
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,160
Speaker 1: her daughter in, but actually being able to go there

539
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 1: and know that she was meters away, even though I

540
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: didn't have a specific gravesite to go to, it was

541
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: a really lovely moment of closure. And I wasn't expecting

542
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 1: it to be as emotional as it was, and it

543
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 1: was just a really lovely way to say goodbye to Yeah,

544
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 1: it was a great moment.

545
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 2: We'll be back soon to hear more about Mabel. To

546
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 2: stay with us, and did you ever find out what

547
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 2: happened to Mabel's daughter?

548
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 1: I did, but not going to anybody here is interested.

549
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: Will have to read the book.

550
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 2: Okay, And just one more question, Karin, you mentioned in

551
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 2: the notes that you sent me about this story a

552
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 2: link between Mabel and Russian spies.

553
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: What's that all about? Yeah, this is one of the

554
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 1: wonderful things about researching this this world of vaudeville and circus,

555
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 1: particularly the small jobbing circuss who haven't been very well recorded,

556
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 1: is that there's this huge kind of cast of thousands

557
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 1: of people who kind of flit in and out of

558
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 1: these various troops. And one of them, well, actually there's

559
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: a trio that we're fascinating. So snake charmers, Russian spies

560
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: and Daisy Baits, yes, actually Daisy Baits all kind of

561
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: are in the orbit of Mabel's brother's circus. The Russian Spy.

562
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 1: He's a sharpshooter who claims to be a Russian dissident.

563
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 1: He isn't, but actually his wife is. And he's a

564
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 1: master armsman, so he does things like, you know, shoots

565
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: apples off people's heads at you know, five hundred yards

566
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 1: of this kind of stuff. But yes, he claims to

567
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: be a former white Russian spy but he's not. But

568
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: his wife really was a white Russian dissident who comes

569
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: to Australia. So yeah, there's these amazing, colorful characters that

570
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: you just couldn't make up. And while I was writing it,

571
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: I was texting my colleague Miikki and saying, you wouldn't

572
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: believe who's turned up now you know, there's this Russian

573
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 1: spy you wouldn't play, snake chumps who get bitten andla.

574
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: So yes, it's a cast of thousands who I never

575
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: knew existed, and I think everyone will really enjoy finding

576
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 1: out about this very colorful, very rich, very exciting world

577
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 1: that is entirely forgotten by mainstream life these days. Yeah,

578
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: it was just a wonderful playground to explore. And I

579
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: spent five years essentially writing Mabel, and I'm kind of

580
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: sad to see it go, but I will never stop looking.

581
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: You know, there's still that five year gap between ninety

582
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 1: nine in nineteen oh four that I don't know what

583
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 1: she was up to. So I will never stop looking

584
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: for Mabel. She's going to be with me forever, much

585
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 1: to the chagrin of my children, like my mum, what

586
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 1: are you doing? Maybe she's an obsession. You know, she

587
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 1: got under my skin and she didn't want to leave.

588
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 1: So this book was really a way of kind of

589
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 1: honoring that life where she was seen as worthless for

590
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 1: most of her life. You know, she was at the

591
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 1: very edge of society. But I think she deserves a

592
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 1: whole lot more, and I think many women like her

593
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: deserved a whole lot more, and that was one of

594
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: the reasons why I wrote the book.

595
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 2: Fantastic Now, just to remind listeners the book, it's called

596
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 2: Three Ring Circus, The Dramatic, mysterious and tragical Life of

597
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 2: Mabel Walley, a destitute asylum Girl. Where's the best place

598
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 2: for people to buy the book?

599
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 1: So, it's published by Australian Scholarly in North Melbourne. It's

600
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 1: readily available through Dimicks or you can order it off

601
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 1: the Australian Scholarly website. I would actually also like to

602
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 1: to my horn that the book was awarded the Historical

603
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 1: Society of South Australia Keen Medal for Historical Nonfiction in

604
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. It was the joint winner of the

605
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two Medal round. So I actually got a lovely, lovely,

606
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 1: nice piece of bronze for that. Well done, that's really nice,

607
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: gat versions, that was wonderful.

608
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 2: And we'll actually put the link to buy a copy

609
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 2: of the book in the show notes to this episode

610
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 2: if any listeners would like to buy a copy. Well,

611
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 2: thank you so much for sharing the story with us today. Krein,

612
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 2: don't really enjoyed it, no worries.

613
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: You're very welcome.

614
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening. This has been In Black and White,

615
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 2: a podcast about some of Australia's forgotten characters, written and

616
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 2: hosted by me Jen Kelly, edited by Nina Young and

617
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 2: produced by John Tiburton. You can find all the stories

618
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 2: and photos associated with our episodes at Heraldsun dot com

619
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 2: dot au slash ib aw. If you've enjoyed this podcast,

620
00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 2: we'd love you to leave a five star rating on

621
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts. Even better, leave a review. Any comments or

622
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 2: questions please email me at In Black and White at

623
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 2: Heroldsun dot com dot au. Any clarifications or updates will

624
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 2: appear in the show notes for each episode, and to

625
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 2: get notified when each new episode comes out, make sure

626
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 2: you subscribe to the podcast feed