WEBVTT - The Skull | 5 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.920 Hi, everyone. Before we get into this episode of Perfect Alibi. 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:08.039 In the previous episode we misattributed some police audio to 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:11.160 Danielle Phillips. We fixed that up and are sorry for 0:00:11.200 --> 0:00:11.640 the error. 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:22.079 This court has now resumed, Please be seated. The next 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:24.840 meet witness mister Murphy is on the phone. 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:27.840 Thank you, miss Murphy. 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:28.520 Can you hear me? 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:33.400 Good morning, It's Murphy. My name is Edyvy State Pina Gallagher. 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:35.840 Would you like to take an oak or make an affirmation? 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:37.800 I'll turn you over to take it. 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:43.600 In a Brisbane Coroner's court in twenty twenty two, Brian 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:47.519 the Skull Murphy is about to give evidence. He's dialing 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:52.360 in from Melbourne. This is the second inquest into Les's disappearance. 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:56.640 The first coroner delivered an open finding, not ruling one 0:00:56.680 --> 0:00:59.320 way or the other if Les was dead or alive, 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:04.880 but after the skull came forward to Queensland Police, Detective 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:09.480 Liz mc norton concluded that David Phillips was the only 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:13.680 one with the means and motive to murder Les, triggering 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:18.880 the second in quest because, according to the skull, David 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:21.240 confessed to Les's murder. 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:25.319 So tell us again the words that he said to you, 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:29.640 to the best of your memory about what he did 0:01:29.680 --> 0:01:30.880 to his father in law. 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:37.120 He in the shed, call me, what of you virtually 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:42.160 thinking to his father Rogan? Then? Or of it? 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:49.600 Okay? And you've also said something like he nearly pulled his. 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:54.640 Windpiebut again in such a trading, I had him by 0:01:54.720 --> 0:02:00.320 the dragged up against the war, and but he got it. 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:01.960 It won't buy every shrow. 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:05.960 In case he didn't get all that, because the audio 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:08.880 is not great. The skull says he got him in 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:11.919 the shed and beat the shit out of him, gave 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:16.120 him such a thrashing so bad it nearly pulled his 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:22.560 windpipe out. The skull's testimony is extraordinary, but it's what 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:26.960 David apparently told him next that verges on the unbelievable. 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:33.240 According to the skull, after the attack, David went down 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:36.520 to the local pub and found someone that looked like 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:40.000 Les to help him dispose of Le's body because the 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:43.320 neighborhood Sticky Beak, who lived across the road, was permanently 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:47.480 looking out her window waving hello to her neighbors, and 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:51.200 David told the skull that's exactly what happened the night 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:55.920 he murdered Leeds. The one person neighborhood Watch committee waved 0:02:55.919 --> 0:03:00.240 to Les's doppelganger as he and David drove away with 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:06.680 Lezer's body. Detectives did speak to some neighbors, but they 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:10.680 didn't take written statements, so we don't know how many 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:13.560 people they contacted or what they said. 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:21.959 That before I put him in and then, like the 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:29.519 old work to bud them, an tel track a part 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:33.960 of the railway left it there. 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:37.680 Okay, prep me, it's not getting it wrong. 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:43.160 But David killed Las, and then he went down to 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:47.720 the pub. I found someone who looked remarkably like Leaves. 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:48.440 Is that right? 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:50.040 Yep? That's correct. 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:52.400 Did he say that have you met this like before? 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:54.680 Nor so? 0:03:54.760 --> 0:03:56.600 Does some gime it looked like Les happens to be 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:57.040 the pub? 0:03:57.880 --> 0:03:58.120 Yeah? 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:02.680 Yeah, And then it took this guy and this guy's 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:10.560 unknown person helped him bury Les, correct, and then he 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:14.000 David killed the unknown person. 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:14.720 From the pub. 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:19.000 That's right, And he buried him as well. 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:22.640 And I'll put him in his name, right? 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:24.799 Did that strike you as unlikely? 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:26.520 Now? 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:33.560 By this time? Oh, you ovisually had in fact only things. 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:38.400 And I couldn't believe it. 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:40.440 He was telling me. 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:47.680 Les's daughter, Lachelle wasn't in Brisbane to hear the skulls testimony. 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:50.880 She listened to his evidence at home in Sydney. 0:04:51.720 --> 0:04:53.960 That was the most cruciating thing, like someone had just 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:55.159 ripped out my heart. 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:56.880 I couldn't stop crying for a week. 0:04:56.920 --> 0:04:57.560 I felt like. 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:02.880 I never felt before, the worse pain than being in pain, 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:03.560 you know what I mean? 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:07.080 That he died being bashed to death, and how it 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:07.839 was just terrific. 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:08.760 It was terrible. 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:14.200 As terrible as hearing that evidence was. It almost made 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:19.479 Lachelle hopeful because thirty years after Les disappeared, she was 0:05:19.600 --> 0:05:23.000 now closer than ever to getting justice for her dad. 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:28.560 If the coroner accepted the Skull's evidence, then surely they 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:31.920 would agree with Liz mc norton and find that David 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:33.240 murdered her dad. 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:36.039 It sounded one hundred percent truth. 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:38.200 For I heard how he died, that he bashed him 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:40.200 to death. I actually did believe it. 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:56.920 To tell the truth, I'm Joe Townsend. 0:05:56.960 --> 0:06:00.520 And I'm Callumptoness. This is perfect alibi. 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:09.039 You might have detected some skepticism from the lawyer cross 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:13.719 examining the Skull about David's confession because it sounds like 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:17.960 something out of a B grade movie. So now we're 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:22.120 digging into the skull. Who was he and could he 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:27.360 have been telling the truth. To help us answer those questions, 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:31.320 we turned to a former Victorian detective Bill Nash. 0:06:31.800 --> 0:06:34.640 He's measured and he talks a lot of sense. 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:39.080 I applied for the Fraud Squad and moved to the 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:42.880 Fraud Squad in about nineteen eighty five, and I stayed 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:46.080 there for twenty five years before retiring as a detective 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:46.760 senis sergeant. 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:51.320 Through his time in the Victoria Police Force, Bill Nash 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:55.080 heard all sorts of stories about the Skull because in 0:06:55.160 --> 0:07:00.279 policing circles he was notorious. He made his name in 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:03.360 the bad old days of policing when cops were known 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:05.159 to bend the law. 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:10.560 He's certainly well known and is a bit of a legend. 0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:13.680 I he shot someone in his backyard. He had a 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:18.400 police issue revolver for his own protection, and he found 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:21.320 someone climbing over the neighbor's fence into his backyard or 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:25.000 vice versa, and he shot him in the leg. Didn't 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:25.640 he get charged? 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:31.400 By all accounts, the Skull was a bit of an enigma. 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:37.360 He was awarded policing's highest honor, the Valor Award and 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:41.480 was a devout Catholic, but he also bragged that he'd 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:45.080 shot and wounded forty people in his long policing career. 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:49.120 Once he poured petrol on two drug dealers in the 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:54.040 street and threatened in court to bite off a crook's nose. 0:07:55.040 --> 0:07:58.600 He was charged with manslaughter for bashing a criminal to death. 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:02.160 He was acquitted and was the target of one of 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:05.960 Victoria's biggest ever anti corruption inquiries. 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:10.720 He was a good source of information for both the 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:15.200 police department and the underworld, so you couldn't really trust 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:18.640 him because you don't know who he's playing off against. 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:26.120 He had a prolific almost as good as Shane Warns 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:30.840 contact lists. It was something you wouldn't believe. 0:08:32.040 --> 0:08:35.280 The Skull told the Inquest. He met David Phillips at 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:39.079 Melbourne's Russell Street Criminal Investigation branch back in the early 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:41.360 eighties giving you. 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:45.640 A detector at Rochelly Troit and I was a detective 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:51.360 sergeant and it were quite a good nation work. 0:08:52.520 --> 0:08:55.560 David left the force a couple of years later and 0:08:55.720 --> 0:08:58.920 moved to Queensland and he and the Skull fell out 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:03.240 of touch. But after suffering a stroke in nineteen ninety four, 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:07.040 David moved back to Melbourne. He was in a bad way. 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:10.960 The stroke had left him wheelchair bound. The skull and 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:14.839 his wife would visit the Phillips every Saturday, bringing with 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:17.640 them one hundred dollars worth of food to feed the family, 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:22.679 and occasionally even lending David money. On the stand at 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:26.320 the coronial inquest, the skull told the court that one 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:29.480 day he received a call from one of David's kids 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:33.280 begging him to come to the house because David was 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:37.000 in a fit of rage, tearing their place apart with 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:37.920 an axe. 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:42.240 Oman dam. It was there till the plant the walls 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:47.080 that would't work in the place, and everybody was terrified. 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:52.280 And so to be clear, did you see mister Phillips 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:53.280 with an axe? 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:58.280 I did, and should not under his hair job with 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:01.560 him in each Dan why he's done, He was sitting 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:05.960 any shit, he would love his ship. He was still 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:11.880 yelling at treating, carrying off, which I've never seen ignite 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:16.760 that before. I couldn't believely done the damage. It felt 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:18.040 a real daughters in these. 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:23.680 Why the skull calmed David down, But soon after the 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:24.920 skull cut off contact. 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:30.160 So David and the skull were old police buddies and 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:33.680 resumed their friendship in nineteen ninety four after David returned 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:34.199 to Melbourne. 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:35.000 Yeah, that's right. 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:38.240 So this was a fairly long relationship and pretty close 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:40.440 to given that we know the Skull and his wife 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:43.360 used to come around every week dropping off food, and 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:47.160 the Skull was this notorious figure with connections to the underworld. 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:48.880 What I want to know is what do we know 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:52.360 about David's police career. Does this mean that he moved 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:54.240 in the same sort of circles as the Skull. 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:57.760 Well, according to a document we found amongst the police 0:10:57.800 --> 0:11:02.079 files on Lez's case, he was actually a highly decorated cop. 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:06.000 The document is a letter it's addressed to David from 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:10.320 a Victorian assistant commissioner. It says that in David's ten 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:14.559 years in the police force, he was awarded eleven commendations 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:18.320 and was nominated for the Valor Award three times. 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:21.600 That's huge, massive. But the thing is it kind of 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:25.280 stands at odds slightly with Christine, his sister, because she 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:27.680 told us this story that kind of made us raise 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:28.480 our eyebrows. 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:33.600 One day he called him with a police carp and 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:35.640 he was on his own. He didn't have his partner 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:38.840 and sad, I want to show you something I quivered 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:41.640 in my boots a bit. Jee's what's in the boot? 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:47.400 And it was a bootload of drugs and I distinctly 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:51.880 remember on one side plastic bags with little brown stuff 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:55.280 in it. I presume that was marijuana and little silver 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:58.319 packages on the right. And he said, I want you 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:01.360 to smell it and taste, so you know what it's like. 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:08.040 I declined, absolutely not interested. I said, why are you 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:10.640 showing me this? He said, I just want you to learn. 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:16.080 I said to him, where's your partner? And I said, 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:19.320 we've just done a big drug bust. And I said, 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:22.600 but where which I should He didn't tell me, of course, 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:25.640 And I said, why are you driving around with all 0:12:25.720 --> 0:12:29.440 this in your boot? He said, don't worry. He bent forward, 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:33.720 rolled up his pants and he said, I've got protection. 0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:38.120 And it was a knife in his boot. 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:43.040 According to that police document I mentioned, David was medically 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:47.440 retired from the force in nineteen eighty six. When detectives 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:52.880 investigating Leeds's disappearance asked David for more details, he wouldn't elaborate. 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:57.200 His sister, Christine doesn't know why he left his police 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:00.760 in career but remembers he was in a hurry. 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:01.840 Very. 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:08.600 Very surprised. We sort of questioned him why he was 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:12.040 doing it. He stead of just got to get out. 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:16.920 I drove him to a caya in Brunswick. He said, 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:20.400 I'm getting a new car. Can you take me? Honestent, sure, 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:24.440 but he wouldn't let me drop him off in the caryat. 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:28.240 It was in a side street and next thing I 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:29.800 heard the car had been abandoned. 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:33.960 We heard a similar story from Lachelle's side of the 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:37.880 family too, that David abandoned the car he drove to 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:42.800 Queensland by the side of the road. Margaret Leanne's mother, 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:46.240 who was staying at the Phillips house when Les vanished, 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:50.040 had her own suspicions about why David left the force. 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:55.160 In this covert police recording, she's with some relatives. 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:57.400 Did you hear why he left the place? 0:13:57.800 --> 0:13:58.880 I think I thought. 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:02.920 I think he knew he needed to leave, okay, and 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:06.160 why there was a lot of things that were going on. 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:07.679 We're prided. 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:08.800 Yeah, well, I know. 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:12.400 Of it's definitely not above board and no offense. But 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:14.439 you know how cops that very bad names off and 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:19.400 I think he was right in the heart of all 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:23.359 that Whenden, he was working. 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:24.560 There and he got out. 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:29.160 When the Phillips first moved to Queensland in the eighties, 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:33.320 they briefly lived with Les and Et and it recalls 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:36.520 overhearing some troubling phone calls. 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:39.840 He took some very suspicious phone calls when he was 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:43.520 at my place and I heard him say, well, if 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:46.320 you can't do anything, then break his knees. I was 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:50.280 hearing all this on the phone and he was obviously 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:53.040 talking to other police in Victoria. 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:57.520 So some of his family suspected David might have had 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:01.080 dodgy police connections. But then again we have to take 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:03.800 into account that none of them are fans of David anyway. 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:06.840 Yeah, we won't take their word as gospel. But then 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:09.760 we have Bill Nash, the form of fraud Squad detective. 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:13.360 He looked into David's connection to the skull and corrupt 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:17.160 police really closely as part of an investigation that was 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:22.000 completely separate to Lesbaul And it's a wild twisting tale 0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:27.480 about two murders. First, some history. In nineteen eighty four, 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:30.920 Jennifer Tanner, the sister in law of a Melbourne detective, 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:36.800 was shot in the head twice, but unbelievably. Local police 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:39.600 initially dismissed her death as a suicide. 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:43.600 You can shoot yourself in the head once, but you 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:47.360 can't do it to because you're knocked out. You don't 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:47.920 have any sense. 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:52.680 In July nineteen ninety five, the body of Adel Bailey, 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:56.360 a sex worker who disappeared in nineteen seventy eight, was 0:15:56.400 --> 0:15:59.040 found dumped in a mine shaft in the regional of 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:02.640 Victorian town of Bonnie Done not far from where Jennifer 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:03.600 Tanner was murdered. 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:09.520 This girl was a native of New Zealand. She was 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:16.400 a transgender person working on the streets and certainly wasn't 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:19.880 a country girl and wasn't familiar at all with the 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:23.320 location of the mind shafting Bonnie Doone. 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:27.360 By nineteen ninety six, police were pursuing an explosive theory 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:30.920 that Dennis Tanner, a serving officer and the brother in 0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:34.400 law of Jennifer Tanner, was responsible for both murders. 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:38.520 There was a very strong suggestion that police were involved 0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:44.720 in both. The suspect for that immediately fell on that 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:47.760 woman's brother in law, who was a serving member. 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:53.320 This scandal wasn't limited to one officer. In nineteen ninety eight, 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:57.160 an informer contacted police and said that Tanner would regularly 0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:00.080 bring sex workers up to Bonnie Dune for wild party, 0:17:00.480 --> 0:17:04.879 sometimes with other cops. This informer said that's exactly what 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:08.119 happened the night Adele Bailey was murdered. She was at 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:11.399 a caravan park with Tanner and another officer named Jerry 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:15.840 when Tanner killed her. But the investigation into the two 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:19.840 murders essentially went nowhere. So in two thousand and three, 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:23.520 at the request of the Victoria Police Commissioner, Bill Nash 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:27.000 was conducting a top secret investigation into the two murders 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:30.520 because cops were implicated. He had to work in isolation, 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:33.760 away from other officers, in a secure room at the 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:37.719 Fraud Squad headquarters, and that's when he discovered that the 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:42.240 confidential informer was none other than the Skull. 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:46.200 When we first approached Murphy, I got his phone number 0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:50.280 and we went down to his address. He wasn't home, 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:54.760 so I phoned up. All right, I explained who I am, 0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:59.320 what I want to say about getrift hung up with 0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:03.200 my ear so I rang him back. That same night, 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:09.120 I said, Brian, we're parked outside your house and we're 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:13.719 going to stay here until you come home. Within fifteen minutes, 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:17.800 a dark colored car drives up the street, slows down, 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:22.080 has a look at us, and drives on. Ten minutes later, 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:27.439 Brian rings up, how about Monday, I come in and 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:27.760 see you. 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:34.320 Fine, So, at the agreed time of four pm, the 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:36.879 Skull shows up to the officers of the fraud squad 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:41.000 and he tells Bill that the information about adel Bailey's 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:46.119 murder actually came from another former detective, David Phillips. 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:48.560 David Phillips, what did David say? 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:51.600 Well, he said that he was actually there the night 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:54.160 that Adele Bailey was murdered. He witnessed it. 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:57.240 So wait, this isn't a rumor. He said he was 0:18:57.359 --> 0:18:58.520 actually there. 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:00.480 Yes, and then passed it on to the police. 0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:03.600 Yeah, and the fact that he's even passing that information 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:07.040 on sort of flies in the face of what we 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:11.159 think we know about David Phillips. He was actually a 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:16.000 secret source for a really high profile investigation into pretty 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:17.480 serious police corruption. 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:18.440 Yeah. 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:22.400 And it was really really significant information too, because prior 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:26.359 to David's tip off, police only had one officer, Dennis Tanner, 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:31.119 in their sites. David's story implicating Officer Jerry meant the 0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:35.400 force now had two officers under investigation for murder, and 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:39.280 Officer Jerry became a key suspect. Police bugged his house, 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:42.560 they even installed a microphone above the marital bed that 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:46.440 it ended his career. But the investigation into the double 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:49.440 murder went nowhere, And so Bill was picking this whole 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:52.720 thing up years later, and he really needed to corroborate 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:54.640 that information that David had provided. 0:19:55.760 --> 0:20:01.159 And this information was very significant and it could have 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:06.480 blown the whole investigation open and assisted us enormously. 0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:12.320 Am I right in wondering if at least some, if 0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:15.840 not all, of David Phillips's behavior that we thought was 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:21.080 so strange all along completely inexplicable, could be explained if 0:20:21.160 --> 0:20:24.520 he was working together with a police informant the Skull, 0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:30.880 or if he himself was also a police informant. Could 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:34.960 some of this bad cop stuff we've discovered actually be 0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:37.840 David Phillips being a very good cop. 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:40.360 So to answer that, we have to look at Bill 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:48.359 Nash's investigation. Bill Nash had never met David Phillips, he 0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:51.400 hadn't even heard of him. So he assembled a team 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:55.160 of detectives to follow David and Leanne, and by this 0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:58.679 point in two thousand and three. They were homeless, drifting 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:04.560 between motels. Neither worked, and Bill's officers observed David doctor shopping, 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:07.800 using fraudulent prescriptions to obtain drugs. 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:14.480 We eventually tracked him down in a motel. We knocked 0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:20.520 on the door. Leanne answered, no, day's not here. We 0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:23.240 invite ourselves in, had a quick look around. He's hiding 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:28.760 in the cupboard in the motel room from us. That 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:30.640 was our introduction to Dave Phillips. 0:21:31.920 --> 0:21:34.879 Bill spent around six weeks interviewing David. 0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:39.560 We initially treated him as a witness, a prime witness, 0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:45.679 and he was always polite enough to talk to us, 0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:51.040 but he has a dark, secretive mind. 0:21:52.280 --> 0:21:56.240 During those six weeks, the routine emerged. Police would interview 0:21:56.320 --> 0:21:57.800 David and then. 0:21:58.119 --> 0:22:00.639 We'd leave him. We'd have to track him down again. 0:22:01.200 --> 0:22:05.400 He's somewhere else, in a halfway house, lying on charity 0:22:05.720 --> 0:22:08.800 to provide his accommodation. Now, at the end of the 0:22:09.080 --> 0:22:13.679 one session, I'd gone away, typed up the information on 0:22:13.720 --> 0:22:17.080 a statement, brought it back to him. He's reading it through. 0:22:17.119 --> 0:22:20.120 He says, can I borrow your pin? Bill? He gets 0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:22.920 the page and puts a line to that. He says, oh, 0:22:22.920 --> 0:22:26.679 that's not true. Now that jeopardized the whole statement. It 0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:29.840 was a five page statement and he's just said, we'll 0:22:29.880 --> 0:22:35.960 laugh in this page. That information not true, so you 0:22:36.040 --> 0:22:37.720 might as well throw it away and not use it. 0:22:39.520 --> 0:22:44.760 David laid about big things, small things, everything. In fact, 0:22:44.920 --> 0:22:48.200 Bill said that David laid on at least fifty occasions. 0:22:49.440 --> 0:22:52.119 You've interviewed a lot of people over the years. A 0:22:52.160 --> 0:22:54.920 lot of crooks, a lot of bad people, a lot 0:22:54.920 --> 0:22:58.240 of layers, a lot of fantasists, a lot of fraudsters. 0:22:59.119 --> 0:23:00.719 How does David feel compare? 0:23:01.760 --> 0:23:06.439 He's number one. He had no regard for the truth. 0:23:07.440 --> 0:23:11.480 My description of Dave is he was a low life 0:23:11.800 --> 0:23:17.200 bum and a drifter. That says it all. He's a liar, 0:23:17.359 --> 0:23:21.879 compulsive liar, storyteller, and he's only making up these things 0:23:21.920 --> 0:23:24.560 to chance his reputation. That's my view. 0:23:26.600 --> 0:23:30.800 David Phillips was no noble ex cop. In fact, Bill 0:23:30.840 --> 0:23:33.600 suspects David made the whole thing up to try and 0:23:33.640 --> 0:23:37.720 claim a reward. As for Officer Jerry, the one that 0:23:37.840 --> 0:23:40.000 David said, dump to del Bailey's. 0:23:39.600 --> 0:23:41.800 Body, one innocent. 0:23:46.200 --> 0:23:50.440 David's tale didn't just waste Bill's time, It completely destroyed 0:23:50.440 --> 0:23:53.600 the life and career of the police officer he falsely accused. 0:23:54.280 --> 0:23:57.320 That officer ended up receiving a four hundred thousand dollars 0:23:57.359 --> 0:23:59.960 payout from Victoria Police, which was one of the largest 0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:04.000 ever at the time, because that original investigation had taken 0:24:04.080 --> 0:24:05.720 David's story at face value. 0:24:05.880 --> 0:24:08.280 Wow, what about the other cop, Well. 0:24:08.160 --> 0:24:11.080 Dennis Tanner was named by a coroner in twenty twelve 0:24:11.080 --> 0:24:14.840 as Jennifer Tanner's likely killer, although police dropped those charges. 0:24:15.400 --> 0:24:18.320 He was never charged over Adel Bailey's murder, and he's 0:24:18.359 --> 0:24:22.000 previously said he's innocent of both murders. Those two cases 0:24:22.000 --> 0:24:22.960 are still unsolved. 0:24:23.560 --> 0:24:27.080 What I really want to know is why did David 0:24:27.280 --> 0:24:29.959 just make all of this up? Was it just to 0:24:30.000 --> 0:24:31.480 try and claim the reward money. 0:24:31.760 --> 0:24:34.159 Well, Bill thinks there was another reason too, which is 0:24:34.160 --> 0:24:37.399 that David felt this desperate need to impress the skull. 0:24:38.600 --> 0:24:42.080 Dave always had this problem that he wanted to be 0:24:42.240 --> 0:24:45.600 known himself, especially in front of a person like Brian Murphy. 0:24:46.440 --> 0:24:49.399 What about the skull though, Was he telling the truth? 0:24:49.720 --> 0:24:49.920 Yeah? 0:24:50.000 --> 0:24:52.320 Bill thinks he was telling the truth and that David 0:24:52.480 --> 0:24:55.240 really had told him that he'd seen this officer Dumper 0:24:55.320 --> 0:24:58.040 del Bailey's body and he was just passing it on 0:24:58.160 --> 0:25:00.560 to police, which is what any former co would do. 0:25:01.040 --> 0:25:04.720 So that brings us back to les Ball. According to 0:25:04.760 --> 0:25:09.280 the skull, David told him that he murdered Lez, which 0:25:09.359 --> 0:25:14.200 the skull again duly passed on to police. And remember 0:25:14.440 --> 0:25:18.359 our Irish cold case cop Liz also thinks the skull 0:25:18.440 --> 0:25:22.119