1 00:00:05,921 --> 00:00:07,281 Speaker 1: Approache Production. 2 00:00:14,401 --> 00:00:16,361 Speaker 2: Welcome to Real Crime and Adam Shand I'm your host. 3 00:00:16,361 --> 00:00:19,961 Speaker 2: Adam Shand The Abduction of the Beaumont Children Jane Arner 4 00:00:20,081 --> 00:00:23,441 Speaker 2: and Grant on January twenty sixth, nineteen sixty six. It's 5 00:00:23,481 --> 00:00:26,041 Speaker 2: one of the great unsolved crimes in Australian history. 6 00:00:26,241 --> 00:00:29,321 Speaker 3: Vanished from at Glenell Beach on Australia Day in nineteen 7 00:00:29,401 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 3: sixty six, and their disappearance remains one of Australia's most 8 00:00:32,801 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 3: enduring and high profile cold cases. 9 00:00:36,561 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 2: Year after year we hear the same list of suspects 10 00:00:39,601 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 2: associated with this investigation, and yet the mystery continues no 11 00:00:43,601 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 2: closer to resolution. People have always wanted this case solved 12 00:00:48,281 --> 00:00:51,441 Speaker 2: because at that time it really took away the innocence 13 00:00:51,681 --> 00:00:55,161 Speaker 2: of life in Australia in the mid sixties. So when 14 00:00:55,161 --> 00:00:58,601 Speaker 2: a new name pops up, it's always worth investigating. An 15 00:00:58,601 --> 00:01:02,561 Speaker 2: Adelaide journalist and podcaster Brian Littley has generated a lot 16 00:01:02,561 --> 00:01:06,681 Speaker 2: of interest in a known pedophile named Leslie Davis as 17 00:01:06,761 --> 00:01:09,801 Speaker 2: a credible suspect in the case. I'd never heard of 18 00:01:09,881 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 2: Davis in relation to the Beaumonts, but Brian in his 19 00:01:12,961 --> 00:01:17,681 Speaker 2: podcast Sleepers Can put Davis on Glenell Beach on Australia 20 00:01:17,721 --> 00:01:19,321 Speaker 2: Day nineteen sixty. 21 00:01:19,041 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 3: Six, investigators have made an unexpected discovery at the old 22 00:01:23,401 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 3: CASTELLOI site, a slab of hardened sand buried beneath tons 23 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 3: of dirt. 24 00:01:29,961 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 2: You can also point to other crimes committed against children 25 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 2: by Davis that suggests it's possible that he could have 26 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:39,761 Speaker 2: been the culprit. Brian's agreed to share his findings with me. 27 00:01:40,161 --> 00:01:43,481 Speaker 2: Welcome to real crime, Brian. Good day, Adam, how are 28 00:01:43,521 --> 00:01:47,081 Speaker 2: you very well? Thanks thanks for coming on. How did 29 00:01:47,121 --> 00:01:49,841 Speaker 2: the name Leslie Davis turn up in your orbit? 30 00:01:50,641 --> 00:01:53,241 Speaker 1: Yeah? So it was just through doing the work. 31 00:01:53,281 --> 00:01:56,641 Speaker 3: I launched Sleepers only in August of this year, and 32 00:01:56,881 --> 00:02:00,041 Speaker 3: my idea was Sleepers was to I guess originally, I'd 33 00:02:00,081 --> 00:02:03,241 Speaker 3: come across a lot of information throughout my career as 34 00:02:03,241 --> 00:02:05,481 Speaker 3: a journalist which just never made the news papers and 35 00:02:05,561 --> 00:02:08,641 Speaker 3: never made the print for a whole heap of reasons, 36 00:02:08,641 --> 00:02:11,121 Speaker 3: but mainly because it can be really hard to stack 37 00:02:11,161 --> 00:02:13,801 Speaker 3: that up and put it out there when you're writing 38 00:02:13,841 --> 00:02:17,201 Speaker 3: for a news corporation that you really needed to stack 39 00:02:17,281 --> 00:02:19,721 Speaker 3: up those stories. So there's a lot of things that 40 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:22,801 Speaker 3: weren't ever reported or sort of hit the floor, because 41 00:02:23,121 --> 00:02:25,121 Speaker 3: stories have to be written to link and all sorts 42 00:02:25,161 --> 00:02:28,961 Speaker 3: of things. The details I wanted to share, I wanted 43 00:02:29,001 --> 00:02:31,081 Speaker 3: to share them raw and as if it was being 44 00:02:31,121 --> 00:02:32,921 Speaker 3: told for the first time, or when it was told 45 00:02:33,001 --> 00:02:35,441 Speaker 3: for the first time. So I went about creating a 46 00:02:35,481 --> 00:02:39,801 Speaker 3: podcast that would put me in a room with witnesses 47 00:02:39,921 --> 00:02:42,761 Speaker 3: or victims, people that had a story to tell that 48 00:02:42,841 --> 00:02:45,161 Speaker 3: I knew that there's some substance to it, and I 49 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,361 Speaker 3: knew that there were links to least investigations or actual 50 00:02:48,401 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 3: outcomes of people going to jail over these crimes. 51 00:02:51,321 --> 00:02:54,081 Speaker 1: So these of the behind the scenes type stories. 52 00:02:54,561 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 3: I started that process in August, and just a few 53 00:02:57,841 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 3: episodes in I was contacted by Pain Davis. It happens 54 00:03:02,041 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 3: to be a person that my family knew and grew 55 00:03:04,601 --> 00:03:06,681 Speaker 3: up in the same as me and as around about 56 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:09,481 Speaker 3: the same age as. He compacted me and said, hey, 57 00:03:09,761 --> 00:03:14,361 Speaker 3: we've always had this suspicion about our uncle. There's anyway 58 00:03:14,441 --> 00:03:16,721 Speaker 3: Cain came on the show. I said, stop stop there, 59 00:03:16,721 --> 00:03:19,041 Speaker 3: I don't want to hear anymore. Kane came on one 60 00:03:19,081 --> 00:03:22,281 Speaker 3: of our shows, and in that show he revealed that 61 00:03:23,401 --> 00:03:26,321 Speaker 3: there's had been we'd know been involved in some crimes 62 00:03:26,361 --> 00:03:30,081 Speaker 3: because there were some newspaper articles about him abusing some children, 63 00:03:30,121 --> 00:03:32,201 Speaker 3: a five year old and a seven year old, and 64 00:03:32,281 --> 00:03:34,281 Speaker 3: he got charged for that and he went to jail for. 65 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:36,321 Speaker 1: A couple of years, two of four years he was 66 00:03:36,361 --> 00:03:36,641 Speaker 1: meant to. 67 00:03:36,681 --> 00:03:39,441 Speaker 3: But the real story behind that was never really told, 68 00:03:39,481 --> 00:03:42,481 Speaker 3: and that was that it involved an element of abduction 69 00:03:42,601 --> 00:03:46,761 Speaker 3: of those two girls. Cain exposed that live and rule 70 00:03:47,241 --> 00:03:50,761 Speaker 3: on Sleepers. From there we went and got about checking 71 00:03:50,761 --> 00:03:54,081 Speaker 3: out more on what we could about Les Davis. It 72 00:03:54,241 --> 00:03:57,481 Speaker 3: happened that we had been told about, or we'd seen 73 00:03:57,561 --> 00:04:01,121 Speaker 3: some evidence of the name Les Davis some four years before, 74 00:04:01,201 --> 00:04:02,081 Speaker 3: but no one ever. 75 00:04:02,041 --> 00:04:03,561 Speaker 1: Responded to her or reacted to her. 76 00:04:04,081 --> 00:04:07,281 Speaker 3: And that was in just a single Facebook post on 77 00:04:07,401 --> 00:04:11,361 Speaker 3: the Unmasking the Killers Unmasking the Killer of the Beaumonts 78 00:04:11,401 --> 00:04:13,081 Speaker 3: book or social media. 79 00:04:12,841 --> 00:04:16,761 Speaker 1: Page which you're familiar with, Adam. Yes, it was just. 80 00:04:16,361 --> 00:04:19,841 Speaker 3: One line that said, this sketch looks like a man 81 00:04:20,481 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 3: that lived with us and abused us. His name is 82 00:04:24,201 --> 00:04:28,041 Speaker 3: Les Davis. There was zero reaction or response to that. 83 00:04:28,641 --> 00:04:32,601 Speaker 3: No one ever plicked on that name and said, who 84 00:04:32,601 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 3: do you mean, who's this Les Davis? 85 00:04:34,521 --> 00:04:36,241 Speaker 1: So there was very little. 86 00:04:35,921 --> 00:04:39,561 Speaker 3: About Les Davis out there in our endeavors to try 87 00:04:39,561 --> 00:04:41,721 Speaker 3: to find out more. We went and spoke to that 88 00:04:41,841 --> 00:04:44,841 Speaker 3: person who made that post, and we've learned a lot 89 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:49,121 Speaker 3: more about Les Davis and his crimes. Something very interesting 90 00:04:49,121 --> 00:04:51,681 Speaker 3: that we did learn very early on is that there's 91 00:04:51,681 --> 00:04:56,081 Speaker 3: no photographs of Les Davis that all disappeared. His actions 92 00:04:56,121 --> 00:04:58,801 Speaker 3: are the actions of someone who was trying to hide something. 93 00:04:59,361 --> 00:05:01,681 Speaker 3: He moved around a lot, and we can place him 94 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:04,201 Speaker 3: in a lot of places where some of these crimes 95 00:05:04,281 --> 00:05:09,001 Speaker 3: ha and place him with people the likes of stan Hart, 96 00:05:09,361 --> 00:05:13,641 Speaker 3: who I've spent fifteen years researching and finding out information 97 00:05:13,681 --> 00:05:17,720 Speaker 3: about with regards to the Adelaide Oval abduction, which. 98 00:05:17,561 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 2: Was Joe and Ratcliffe and Kirsty Gordon who went missing 99 00:05:20,241 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy three from the Adelaide Oval. 100 00:05:22,521 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, and something that Cain had told us on that 101 00:05:25,121 --> 00:05:29,561 Speaker 3: Sleeper's episode was that his uncle, his grand uncle as Davis, 102 00:05:29,761 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 3: had a mate, Sam who lived in around the Orau area, 103 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,681 Speaker 3: which is where Yatner is. Is where we've been looking 104 00:05:36,761 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 3: since March April of this year and searching on the 105 00:05:40,481 --> 00:05:45,961 Speaker 3: property for evidence to support the claims of stand Heart's 106 00:05:46,521 --> 00:05:49,961 Speaker 3: grandson Mark Trevor Marshall, who wrote a statement to the 107 00:05:50,001 --> 00:05:53,921 Speaker 3: Mulligan Inquiry that stan Hart was central to the abduction 108 00:05:54,201 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 3: and killings of joe Ane Radcliffe and Kirsty Gordon. So 109 00:05:59,201 --> 00:06:01,721 Speaker 3: these names come in and it's not just about a 110 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:04,961 Speaker 3: single name. It is about the relationships that we are 111 00:06:05,121 --> 00:06:09,201 Speaker 3: able to without doubt form up and show and the 112 00:06:09,281 --> 00:06:13,961 Speaker 3: places that this person was and crimes that he's committed, 113 00:06:14,121 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 3: that he's been charged for, that he's been convicted of. 114 00:06:17,001 --> 00:06:20,681 Speaker 3: You're right, we can put Leiz Davis in Glenell on 115 00:06:20,801 --> 00:06:23,321 Speaker 3: January twenty sixth, nineteen sixty six, and we can do 116 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:27,681 Speaker 3: that by way of his sister Joyce was running a 117 00:06:27,841 --> 00:06:31,401 Speaker 3: side show operation there or working on the side shows there. 118 00:06:31,641 --> 00:06:35,241 Speaker 3: And my family's name Joyce Davis and his Davis family 119 00:06:35,641 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 3: for ever in a day, and I know the family 120 00:06:38,721 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 3: locally here in Victor Harbor. In fact, Les Davis I 121 00:06:42,521 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 3: found out a couple of days after hearing Les Davis's 122 00:06:44,961 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 3: name for the first time. He worked on my family 123 00:06:47,921 --> 00:06:50,841 Speaker 3: farm when my father was ten years old. My father's 124 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 3: now eighty three, so he was known then as Les Chapel. 125 00:06:54,521 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 3: And he's changed his name since, going to the married 126 00:06:57,961 --> 00:07:02,161 Speaker 3: name of his mum. After some time his movements around 127 00:07:02,161 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 3: South Australia fit with a whole Hepochrome Adam. He was 128 00:07:06,801 --> 00:07:11,881 Speaker 3: Injuna in nineteen fifty eight at the same time and 129 00:07:12,001 --> 00:07:14,761 Speaker 3: with the Sideshows. He did some working alongside his sister 130 00:07:14,841 --> 00:07:17,361 Speaker 3: and picking up jobs around side shows in the line. 131 00:07:17,561 --> 00:07:20,401 Speaker 3: He was working with the Sideshows in nineteen fifty eight 132 00:07:20,561 --> 00:07:23,361 Speaker 3: at the time of the Mary Hattam murder. We can 133 00:07:23,401 --> 00:07:27,321 Speaker 3: put Les Davis in some very very critical spots at 134 00:07:27,321 --> 00:07:30,441 Speaker 3: some very critical times when it comes to crimes against 135 00:07:30,761 --> 00:07:31,801 Speaker 3: children in particular. 136 00:07:32,361 --> 00:07:34,801 Speaker 2: So Mary had him murder at s Juna, which was 137 00:07:34,841 --> 00:07:36,361 Speaker 2: of course the famous Stuart case. 138 00:07:36,841 --> 00:07:39,081 Speaker 4: Yes, and my grandfather Jack CHANQC. 139 00:07:39,201 --> 00:07:42,041 Speaker 2: He was at that time represented Stuart at the Royal 140 00:07:42,041 --> 00:07:45,561 Speaker 2: Commission where he stormed out and called it a kangaroo court. 141 00:07:46,121 --> 00:07:49,521 Speaker 2: And Max Rupert Stewart he had his death sentence commuted 142 00:07:49,561 --> 00:07:52,401 Speaker 2: eventually but was never never had it quashed and did 143 00:07:52,401 --> 00:07:56,361 Speaker 2: a life sentence. And I think he always lived with 144 00:07:57,001 --> 00:07:59,481 Speaker 2: the stain that he was believed to have been the 145 00:07:59,561 --> 00:08:00,561 Speaker 2: killer of this little girl. 146 00:08:01,241 --> 00:08:04,081 Speaker 3: Yeah, and look we've done some research into that as well, 147 00:08:04,121 --> 00:08:07,481 Speaker 3: when we find some statements from some people that support 148 00:08:07,521 --> 00:08:09,201 Speaker 3: that there was no way that he could have done 149 00:08:09,241 --> 00:08:12,361 Speaker 3: that crime he was where he said he was working 150 00:08:12,361 --> 00:08:15,681 Speaker 3: at the side shows at that time. So we have 151 00:08:15,761 --> 00:08:18,561 Speaker 3: a real interest in Les Davis. And we have that 152 00:08:18,681 --> 00:08:22,721 Speaker 3: also on the basis of some information that I'm about 153 00:08:22,761 --> 00:08:24,681 Speaker 3: to bring out in the next couple of days on 154 00:08:24,801 --> 00:08:28,441 Speaker 3: sleepers in and around a victim of him, or some 155 00:08:28,561 --> 00:08:32,201 Speaker 3: victims of him, who had gone to police a number 156 00:08:32,201 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 3: of times from the mid nineteen eighties. Certainly they did 157 00:08:36,081 --> 00:08:38,681 Speaker 3: have some success in going to police. That is how 158 00:08:39,041 --> 00:08:44,401 Speaker 3: Les Davis was caught in the act of abusing and 159 00:08:44,481 --> 00:08:47,961 Speaker 3: abducting two girls from the far north of South Australia 160 00:08:48,041 --> 00:08:51,481 Speaker 3: in nineteen eighty nine, was on the basis of this 161 00:08:51,601 --> 00:08:54,961 Speaker 3: family reported to police and they had already done it 162 00:08:55,001 --> 00:08:57,961 Speaker 3: a couple of times, reported to police the actions of 163 00:08:58,041 --> 00:09:02,201 Speaker 3: Les Davis against their children. We are told that he 164 00:09:03,241 --> 00:09:08,921 Speaker 3: had photographs of the Beaumont children in his possession, kept 165 00:09:09,001 --> 00:09:15,801 Speaker 3: in his wallet, not newspaper equippings, printed photographs. 166 00:09:15,761 --> 00:09:17,681 Speaker 4: That he may have taken himself. 167 00:09:18,481 --> 00:09:21,321 Speaker 3: Well, I don't know in the nineteen eighties that it 168 00:09:21,361 --> 00:09:25,841 Speaker 3: was particularly easy to print at home your own photographs. 169 00:09:25,921 --> 00:09:27,641 Speaker 3: I mean, you could have a photo lab. We know 170 00:09:27,681 --> 00:09:30,001 Speaker 3: that he never had anything like that. He wasn't a 171 00:09:30,041 --> 00:09:33,281 Speaker 3: well to do type person. You couldn't really duck down 172 00:09:33,361 --> 00:09:36,081 Speaker 3: to the local Kema and get those photographs printed off 173 00:09:36,561 --> 00:09:41,521 Speaker 3: if you hadn't taken them yourself. So somehow he obviously 174 00:09:42,121 --> 00:09:45,521 Speaker 3: had obtained If we had to believe the victims that, 175 00:09:45,561 --> 00:09:48,201 Speaker 3: I have no reason not to. They did take this 176 00:09:48,281 --> 00:09:51,601 Speaker 3: information to police, and I can have you know, it's 177 00:09:51,641 --> 00:09:54,161 Speaker 3: confirmed that they did go to police over these things. 178 00:09:54,601 --> 00:09:56,721 Speaker 3: That's what we try to do with sleeved We try 179 00:09:56,761 --> 00:09:59,521 Speaker 3: to link it back to some actions by police or 180 00:09:59,561 --> 00:10:01,521 Speaker 3: in action as it might be. But if we can 181 00:10:01,561 --> 00:10:03,241 Speaker 3: link it to an authority, we can go to the 182 00:10:03,241 --> 00:10:04,761 Speaker 3: police and say, did this happen? 183 00:10:05,081 --> 00:10:08,081 Speaker 1: You check this out? And that's my safety name. 184 00:10:08,241 --> 00:10:13,601 Speaker 5: I guess adam tremendous because the instance of abductors taking 185 00:10:13,721 --> 00:10:19,121 Speaker 5: multiple children is rare, and three children is almost unheard 186 00:10:19,121 --> 00:10:19,961 Speaker 5: of at one time. 187 00:10:20,481 --> 00:10:24,401 Speaker 2: It takes a particular kind of offender. You've done enough 188 00:10:24,481 --> 00:10:27,161 Speaker 2: work on Davis in an instance where those two little 189 00:10:27,161 --> 00:10:31,321 Speaker 2: girls were being abused. What you've established, I believe is 190 00:10:31,361 --> 00:10:32,881 Speaker 2: that they're in the boot of his car. 191 00:10:34,161 --> 00:10:37,001 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's by all accounts, that is what they had 192 00:10:37,081 --> 00:10:38,041 Speaker 3: been in the boot of his car. 193 00:10:38,681 --> 00:10:40,921 Speaker 1: The newspaper articles that we've got. 194 00:10:40,921 --> 00:10:43,441 Speaker 3: We've only got one small article about that core hitting, 195 00:10:43,841 --> 00:10:45,881 Speaker 3: and that does say that he lured them to the 196 00:10:45,961 --> 00:10:47,841 Speaker 3: car with lot of his ice creams in a game 197 00:10:47,881 --> 00:10:51,121 Speaker 3: of hide and seek, which sort of suggests they might 198 00:10:51,161 --> 00:10:53,641 Speaker 3: have tried to hide them or they put themselves in 199 00:10:53,681 --> 00:10:55,401 Speaker 3: the boot of the car or something like that. But 200 00:10:56,161 --> 00:11:00,441 Speaker 3: certainly that family, it was their car, the car belonged 201 00:11:00,441 --> 00:11:02,921 Speaker 3: to them, and they had simply as Davis away from 202 00:11:02,921 --> 00:11:03,521 Speaker 3: their home to. 203 00:11:03,521 --> 00:11:05,161 Speaker 1: Get him away from their children. 204 00:11:05,521 --> 00:11:09,201 Speaker 3: After he had taken one of these little girls in 205 00:11:09,241 --> 00:11:11,281 Speaker 3: the middle of the night, stolen her out of her 206 00:11:11,281 --> 00:11:13,801 Speaker 3: bed and took her off to down a creek bed 207 00:11:13,881 --> 00:11:18,521 Speaker 3: to abuse her. That's when the father acted sent him 208 00:11:18,961 --> 00:11:21,841 Speaker 3: in a car. That car came back to their house 209 00:11:22,081 --> 00:11:25,001 Speaker 3: a couple of days later and he was frantically cleaning it. 210 00:11:25,641 --> 00:11:29,921 Speaker 3: Now he was arrested for that crime. They did forensically 211 00:11:29,921 --> 00:11:32,841 Speaker 3: look at that car, so there is evidence to say 212 00:11:32,881 --> 00:11:34,361 Speaker 3: that he put them in the boot of the car, 213 00:11:34,801 --> 00:11:38,241 Speaker 3: and he certainly took them away from the Copler caravan 214 00:11:38,361 --> 00:11:42,361 Speaker 3: Park to Belle Tanner where he was living in the house. 215 00:11:42,441 --> 00:11:45,121 Speaker 3: So there's certainly that element. And if you're going to 216 00:11:45,161 --> 00:11:48,921 Speaker 3: look at the person or persons. And I don't know 217 00:11:48,921 --> 00:11:51,041 Speaker 3: about you, Adam, but there's not a chance in hell 218 00:11:51,761 --> 00:11:54,801 Speaker 3: that one person alone was responsible for the Beaumont crime 219 00:11:55,281 --> 00:11:59,081 Speaker 3: or the Adelaide over it just it wouldn't not You've 220 00:11:59,121 --> 00:12:02,881 Speaker 3: got to look at these crimes and say, you know, 221 00:12:03,561 --> 00:12:07,441 Speaker 3: it's not just any child abuser has the capacity to 222 00:12:07,481 --> 00:12:09,681 Speaker 3: do that, Nor do they have the capacity to go 223 00:12:09,761 --> 00:12:16,441 Speaker 3: from the old abuser or dirty old man to abducting murderers, 224 00:12:16,721 --> 00:12:20,241 Speaker 3: hide them forever, old man, no sign ever seen. 225 00:12:20,481 --> 00:12:22,881 Speaker 1: You've got to have a bit more going on than 226 00:12:23,001 --> 00:12:25,201 Speaker 1: just that. So I don't think that leaves Davis acted 227 00:12:25,241 --> 00:12:28,441 Speaker 1: alone that Boon crime. And for what it's. 228 00:12:28,281 --> 00:12:30,161 Speaker 3: Worth, when we have a look at identic its, and 229 00:12:30,201 --> 00:12:32,841 Speaker 3: identic its are only as good as the sketch artists 230 00:12:32,841 --> 00:12:35,081 Speaker 3: that's done it and the information that's provided to that 231 00:12:35,121 --> 00:12:38,321 Speaker 3: sketch artist to form the picture in the first place. 232 00:12:38,921 --> 00:12:42,241 Speaker 3: We have a look at the Beaumont identic kit that's 233 00:12:42,321 --> 00:12:45,281 Speaker 3: come from a number of witnesses of people seeing them 234 00:12:45,321 --> 00:12:48,081 Speaker 3: with the children. Is it the one person or is 235 00:12:48,081 --> 00:12:50,841 Speaker 3: it a makeup of several people? And I think that's 236 00:12:50,881 --> 00:12:53,521 Speaker 3: probably more to the point that it's a makeup of 237 00:12:53,641 --> 00:12:54,281 Speaker 3: several people. 238 00:12:56,241 --> 00:12:58,921 Speaker 2: That's what I believe as well, because it obviously changed 239 00:12:59,081 --> 00:13:01,761 Speaker 2: over the journey back in sixty six. There was initially 240 00:13:02,361 --> 00:13:05,761 Speaker 2: was a younger man, a surfey type character with blonde hair. 241 00:13:05,961 --> 00:13:07,801 Speaker 2: A bit later on it's a middle aged man with 242 00:13:07,921 --> 00:13:12,921 Speaker 2: sharper features, swept back hair. But when you've posted the 243 00:13:12,961 --> 00:13:16,441 Speaker 2: picture that you obtained of Leslie Davis, it does look 244 00:13:16,481 --> 00:13:19,441 Speaker 2: a lot like the identicate the second one. 245 00:13:20,081 --> 00:13:22,441 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, look, I feel that to be the case 246 00:13:22,481 --> 00:13:25,521 Speaker 3: and the reason I'll post things like that, And you know, 247 00:13:25,521 --> 00:13:27,161 Speaker 3: I don't put a lot of weight into identic its 248 00:13:27,161 --> 00:13:31,041 Speaker 3: because they're not photographs, right, they are that interpretation of 249 00:13:31,481 --> 00:13:34,441 Speaker 3: information that's come in And for what I know is 250 00:13:34,481 --> 00:13:37,361 Speaker 3: the identic artist at the time, for the moment, he 251 00:13:37,481 --> 00:13:40,641 Speaker 3: was still hungover or pissed when he did the first one. 252 00:13:40,961 --> 00:13:44,761 Speaker 3: But that said, if you start to look at the people, 253 00:13:45,161 --> 00:13:47,361 Speaker 3: the most likely people with the people that you can 254 00:13:47,401 --> 00:13:49,721 Speaker 3: place on the beach at the time that are in 255 00:13:49,761 --> 00:13:52,961 Speaker 3: that circle or in that realm, and if you can 256 00:13:53,001 --> 00:13:57,121 Speaker 3: start to knit together relationships, which we can we believe 257 00:13:57,401 --> 00:14:01,281 Speaker 3: now and it's only with multiple bits of research and 258 00:14:01,761 --> 00:14:04,761 Speaker 3: chasing under lines that we believe that Dan Hart was 259 00:14:04,801 --> 00:14:10,001 Speaker 3: in area at the time. We know that Tony Monroe, 260 00:14:10,521 --> 00:14:13,201 Speaker 3: a person that I think is very central to this case, 261 00:14:13,241 --> 00:14:16,001 Speaker 3: and he's locked away for feld sex crimes, which date 262 00:14:16,081 --> 00:14:19,921 Speaker 3: back to December twelve, nineteen sixty five, is the earliest 263 00:14:19,921 --> 00:14:22,521 Speaker 3: one that we can get him on one month before 264 00:14:22,681 --> 00:14:25,121 Speaker 3: those kids went missing. And we know that he was 265 00:14:25,121 --> 00:14:27,721 Speaker 3: on the beach that day or at Bynell that day 266 00:14:28,161 --> 00:14:32,161 Speaker 3: on January twenty sixth and was cited, and the witness 267 00:14:32,161 --> 00:14:34,641 Speaker 3: that cited him has not been ruled out by police 268 00:14:35,441 --> 00:14:39,081 Speaker 3: as a credible witness. Lere's David we know was there 269 00:14:39,241 --> 00:14:42,761 Speaker 3: on the day. I can link Le's Davis to Tony 270 00:14:42,841 --> 00:14:46,281 Speaker 3: Monroe to stan Hart. Can I lenk stand Heart to 271 00:14:46,281 --> 00:14:49,961 Speaker 3: Tony Monroe. I'm not sure that. Where we have some 272 00:14:50,121 --> 00:14:53,121 Speaker 3: very interesting lines that we believe we can almost make 273 00:14:53,161 --> 00:14:55,121 Speaker 3: that link as well, but I can't look at directly 274 00:14:55,681 --> 00:14:57,921 Speaker 3: linking these people together. Then you start to build that 275 00:14:57,961 --> 00:15:00,841 Speaker 3: picture of one the identic kid. There's the elements of 276 00:15:00,881 --> 00:15:04,241 Speaker 3: all three of those people, but two, if you're going 277 00:15:04,281 --> 00:15:06,921 Speaker 3: to get away with I think you're going to something 278 00:15:07,001 --> 00:15:08,761 Speaker 3: like that the movement, and you're going to need more 279 00:15:08,761 --> 00:15:09,441 Speaker 3: than one person. 280 00:15:11,841 --> 00:15:12,161 Speaker 1: I think. 281 00:15:12,161 --> 00:15:14,681 Speaker 2: So one of the challenges for anyone looking at this 282 00:15:14,761 --> 00:15:18,441 Speaker 2: case in hindsight is that the information taken at the 283 00:15:18,481 --> 00:15:21,601 Speaker 2: time was so imperfect. A couple of police working Glennel 284 00:15:21,721 --> 00:15:24,481 Speaker 2: Police station are suddenly in and as a keel of 285 00:15:24,481 --> 00:15:26,841 Speaker 2: people up the street, and as I understand it, a 286 00:15:26,841 --> 00:15:28,841 Speaker 2: lot of people didn't get to give their evidence or 287 00:15:28,881 --> 00:15:31,521 Speaker 2: their versions on the day or even days afterwards. 288 00:15:31,521 --> 00:15:32,281 Speaker 4: How much do you. 289 00:15:32,241 --> 00:15:36,161 Speaker 2: Think that's a hurdle now to establishing who was responsible. 290 00:15:37,601 --> 00:15:38,801 Speaker 1: Well, that's a huge hurdle. 291 00:15:38,921 --> 00:15:41,801 Speaker 3: But also I see people talk about RB very interesting 292 00:15:41,841 --> 00:15:44,721 Speaker 3: to see the case files. No one's asking the question 293 00:15:44,801 --> 00:15:48,521 Speaker 3: of how much of those case files exist still, because 294 00:15:48,841 --> 00:15:52,841 Speaker 3: my understanding is quite a bit of information has been 295 00:15:52,921 --> 00:15:57,401 Speaker 3: lost over the years. Accidentally destroyed in confidence is probably 296 00:15:57,521 --> 00:16:00,881 Speaker 3: the way it is. But when they did transfer a 297 00:16:00,921 --> 00:16:05,641 Speaker 3: lot of hard written statements to the digital files, I'm 298 00:16:05,961 --> 00:16:09,081 Speaker 3: led to believe that a lot of material was lost, 299 00:16:09,961 --> 00:16:12,641 Speaker 3: So there would have been missed opportunities. Right from the start, 300 00:16:13,041 --> 00:16:15,681 Speaker 3: hundreds of people lined up to give information there with 301 00:16:15,881 --> 00:16:20,001 Speaker 3: only a couple of police officers. We have landed on 302 00:16:20,041 --> 00:16:23,121 Speaker 3: a witness who says that she spent time with the 303 00:16:23,241 --> 00:16:26,641 Speaker 3: children at the beach and a man I guess in 304 00:16:26,681 --> 00:16:29,721 Speaker 3: the late morning of January twenty sixth, nineteen sixty six, 305 00:16:30,081 --> 00:16:34,161 Speaker 3: with her children and her family. Now, people were really 306 00:16:34,201 --> 00:16:36,961 Speaker 3: really critical of her. Why didn't she come forward earlier? 307 00:16:37,801 --> 00:16:40,321 Speaker 3: She's a ninety one year old Aboriginal woman. She was 308 00:16:40,361 --> 00:16:44,201 Speaker 3: a thirty two year old Aboriginal mom. Life wasn't very 309 00:16:44,241 --> 00:16:46,921 Speaker 3: easy for a thirty two year old Aboriginal mum in 310 00:16:47,001 --> 00:16:51,361 Speaker 3: Adelaide in South Australia in nineteen sixty six. She had 311 00:16:51,561 --> 00:16:55,281 Speaker 3: a white husband and mix braced children. I'm quite sure 312 00:16:55,721 --> 00:16:57,961 Speaker 3: there's good reason. I know there's good reason for her 313 00:16:58,081 --> 00:17:01,121 Speaker 3: to have been quite reluctant to come forward as herself. 314 00:17:01,401 --> 00:17:03,761 Speaker 3: But I'm not sure that her husband never did, or 315 00:17:03,801 --> 00:17:06,241 Speaker 3: that information wasn't there that police didn't know that this 316 00:17:06,281 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 3: woman existed as a witness. Certainly, over the years police 317 00:17:11,041 --> 00:17:14,160 Speaker 3: went to her or tracked her down. In twenty eighteen, 318 00:17:14,201 --> 00:17:16,801 Speaker 3: I understand they went and saw her to ask for help, 319 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:17,801 Speaker 3: So they knew about her. 320 00:17:17,921 --> 00:17:20,241 Speaker 1: They've known about her for an amount of time. 321 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 3: Those witness statements and those little bits of hope that 322 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,481 Speaker 3: sit in amongst all that information and from all those 323 00:17:27,521 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 3: witnesses that might have come forward, there's traces of around 324 00:17:31,001 --> 00:17:32,160 Speaker 3: the people know this well. 325 00:17:32,241 --> 00:17:35,521 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think it's reasonable to suddenly question her 326 00:17:35,561 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 2: evidence on the basis of why didn't. 327 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:38,281 Speaker 4: You come forward? 328 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,321 Speaker 2: We're saying seen the same thing leveled victims of historic 329 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,640 Speaker 2: sexual assault. Why didn't you come forward years ago? It 330 00:17:44,681 --> 00:17:47,521 Speaker 2: doesn't devalue to someone's evidence. I think that's just junk 331 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:51,481 Speaker 2: in my opinion. The evidence has got assessed on its 332 00:17:51,521 --> 00:17:52,880 Speaker 2: actual granular value. 333 00:17:53,001 --> 00:17:53,241 Speaker 1: Yeah. 334 00:17:53,321 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, And look if anyone who questioned the integrity of 335 00:17:55,761 --> 00:17:58,360 Speaker 3: this woman would be absolutely mad if they knew who 336 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,281 Speaker 3: she was. And when she hasn't come to us to say, hey, 337 00:18:01,801 --> 00:18:03,561 Speaker 3: I want my story of her. She doesn't want to 338 00:18:03,561 --> 00:18:05,681 Speaker 3: go out there in the public at all. That's her thing. 339 00:18:05,801 --> 00:18:08,481 Speaker 3: She doesn't want to be identified at all. I don't 340 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:12,241 Speaker 3: question to her witness account one little bit. I think 341 00:18:12,281 --> 00:18:14,961 Speaker 3: it's absolutely spot on the money, and I think it's 342 00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:18,561 Speaker 3: very impertinent. I went out with Lea Davis as a 343 00:18:18,561 --> 00:18:22,201 Speaker 3: person of interest without ever seeing a photograph of him. 344 00:18:22,281 --> 00:18:24,441 Speaker 3: We didn't have a photograph of him at all. And 345 00:18:24,481 --> 00:18:27,081 Speaker 3: I did that for a very good reason, because it's 346 00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 3: all the other information that we have that we know 347 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:33,920 Speaker 3: that makes him a very strong suspect. In my mind, 348 00:18:34,521 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 3: I didn't care what the photograph looked like I was 349 00:18:37,561 --> 00:18:40,561 Speaker 3: of the impression that the photograph would look like the 350 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 3: identicate photo, because that's what the witnesses and that's what 351 00:18:44,120 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 3: the victims of him had said. 352 00:18:46,801 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 1: So that was a very deliberate point by me. 353 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:52,921 Speaker 2: Based on what you know so far, the information that's 354 00:18:52,961 --> 00:18:57,761 Speaker 2: come to you, what's your case theory on Davis's involvement 355 00:18:57,801 --> 00:18:59,321 Speaker 2: and the possible involvement of others. 356 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 3: My theory is, I do believe that there's an older 357 00:19:02,120 --> 00:19:09,361 Speaker 3: person involved in probably encouraging the transfer of children to them, 358 00:19:09,761 --> 00:19:13,161 Speaker 3: if that makes sense, from some younger, more reckless types 359 00:19:13,761 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 3: who might be able to befriend those kids easily. So 360 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:19,761 Speaker 3: my theory is that the idea of the jan and 361 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:23,641 Speaker 3: having a boyfriend someone had groomed if you liked an 362 00:19:23,681 --> 00:19:28,360 Speaker 3: older teenager. In my mind slightly at Tony Munroe, it 363 00:19:28,561 --> 00:19:30,721 Speaker 3: was like a pied piper at Coldel Get the time 364 00:19:31,521 --> 00:19:34,401 Speaker 3: boy scout leader who ran a group of young boys 365 00:19:34,681 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 3: diving along those beaches, and approachable type if you are 366 00:19:38,241 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 3: a younger person, someone you could just mix with on 367 00:19:41,281 --> 00:19:43,801 Speaker 3: the beach, And they did be mixed with him on 368 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 3: the beach, so that might have been the way to 369 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,160 Speaker 3: bring them into the frame an offer of let's go 370 00:19:50,241 --> 00:19:52,481 Speaker 3: to the side shows. It wasn't a very busy day 371 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 3: at Glenel that day. It's not like Australia Day these days. 372 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 3: It wasn't celebrated on the day. It was a Wednesday. 373 00:19:59,561 --> 00:20:02,361 Speaker 3: It was a quieter day. They're the observations that we're 374 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:06,001 Speaker 3: getting from three witnesses. But the side was an attraction 375 00:20:06,481 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 3: and was a meeting place for younger people. 376 00:20:09,481 --> 00:20:11,121 Speaker 1: We know that Les was working there. 377 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:14,161 Speaker 3: We know that other people who have been victims of 378 00:20:14,681 --> 00:20:18,001 Speaker 3: Tony Munroe were in and around that side show area 379 00:20:18,041 --> 00:20:22,281 Speaker 3: as well. And I believe that that's the direction that the 380 00:20:22,360 --> 00:20:25,481 Speaker 3: children would have gone and where they would have probably 381 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:29,201 Speaker 3: met their abductor at least two people involved in that 382 00:20:29,321 --> 00:20:32,961 Speaker 3: morning of in the lead up to those kids going away, 383 00:20:33,721 --> 00:20:37,400 Speaker 3: I am of the strong belief that they didn't leave 384 00:20:37,441 --> 00:20:40,401 Speaker 3: on foot to go anywhere. My strong belief is that 385 00:20:40,441 --> 00:20:45,721 Speaker 3: they probably willingly got into a vehicle and left that way. 386 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:52,841 Speaker 2: So how does that tally with the last known side thing, 387 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,441 Speaker 2: if you like, at Wenzel's Bakery where Jane is supposed 388 00:20:56,441 --> 00:21:00,120 Speaker 2: to be buying all this food first siblings, impossibly other people. 389 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:01,241 Speaker 4: Do you think that's credible? 390 00:21:01,761 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I have spoken to a member of the 391 00:21:04,241 --> 00:21:07,041 Speaker 3: Wenzel family, and you know, that was a few years ago, 392 00:21:07,281 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 3: just out of the blue. I met her at a 393 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,321 Speaker 3: garage sale, and I don't know what the occasion was, 394 00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:15,241 Speaker 3: but somehow their Beaumont case was raised in conversation and 395 00:21:15,441 --> 00:21:18,281 Speaker 3: her response was my family and it was actually a 396 00:21:18,321 --> 00:21:22,400 Speaker 3: garage tale of her parents' house, said, my family wouldn't 397 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 3: have a clue what anyone bought that day or anything 398 00:21:25,281 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 3: like that, so they're not too sure about that that account. Certainly, 399 00:21:28,921 --> 00:21:31,120 Speaker 3: I think they probably did go to the bakery. How 400 00:21:31,201 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 3: much food they bought and for whom who knows? In 401 00:21:34,281 --> 00:21:36,041 Speaker 3: my mind a one pound note. 402 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 1: They weren't rare. I don't see that as evidence to 403 00:21:38,801 --> 00:21:39,360 Speaker 1: any effect. 404 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:41,640 Speaker 3: You know, people could get a one pound note and 405 00:21:41,921 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 3: tell you what if you were planning on abducting three kids, 406 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,321 Speaker 3: one pound note coming up with that with the last 407 00:21:47,360 --> 00:21:47,801 Speaker 3: of your. 408 00:21:47,761 --> 00:21:48,640 Speaker 1: Concerns, wouldn't it. 409 00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:52,920 Speaker 3: But certainly David Smith did suggest that he spoke with 410 00:21:53,360 --> 00:21:56,160 Speaker 3: the person that was with them. He did identify that 411 00:21:56,201 --> 00:21:59,640 Speaker 3: person as Tony Munroe. And he did also speak with 412 00:22:00,281 --> 00:22:03,561 Speaker 3: the witness that was the lady on the bench, who 413 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,721 Speaker 3: is a confirmed witness by Paul. Police have never been 414 00:22:06,761 --> 00:22:11,201 Speaker 3: able to tell me. They ruled David Smith as a witness. Now, 415 00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:14,161 Speaker 3: David said that he saw them after they had been 416 00:22:14,201 --> 00:22:17,561 Speaker 3: bought lunch by the man, so that does fit that 417 00:22:17,721 --> 00:22:21,200 Speaker 3: signing at the bakery, and the last that David Smith 418 00:22:21,281 --> 00:22:26,001 Speaker 3: thought of them was them leaving in a sports model 419 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 3: car with a man he described or identified as Tony Monroe. 420 00:22:31,961 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I've always had a problem with this 421 00:22:34,001 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 2: idea that you abduct children and then send them to 422 00:22:36,961 --> 00:22:38,241 Speaker 2: the bakery to get food. 423 00:22:39,001 --> 00:22:40,521 Speaker 4: It doesn't somehow tally for. 424 00:22:40,481 --> 00:22:44,161 Speaker 2: Me, if this is your intention to molest and ultimately 425 00:22:44,241 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 2: murder these children, that you're going to risk letting them 426 00:22:47,281 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 2: out of your sight to go into a bakery to 427 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,801 Speaker 2: buy food. And I wonder also, can we really be 428 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,680 Speaker 2: sure that that account is from that day. We had 429 00:22:55,721 --> 00:22:58,321 Speaker 2: the situation where the postman claimed to have seen them 430 00:22:58,321 --> 00:23:00,281 Speaker 2: on the same day, but then the latter realized no, 431 00:23:00,281 --> 00:23:03,561 Speaker 2: it was another day. So some of this stuff, as 432 00:23:03,561 --> 00:23:06,881 Speaker 2: we said at the outset, the information was not gathered instantaneously. 433 00:23:06,961 --> 00:23:09,801 Speaker 2: So the longer you take, the more likely you're more 434 00:23:09,921 --> 00:23:11,961 Speaker 2: more praying you are the mistakes. 435 00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, you're absolutely right, Like these observations people coming forward 436 00:23:17,001 --> 00:23:20,521 Speaker 3: are coming from the right place. Yes we saw something, 437 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:22,680 Speaker 3: let's talk about, but they might not know the days, 438 00:23:22,921 --> 00:23:24,920 Speaker 3: and we do know that the children had been to 439 00:23:25,001 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 3: the beach in the days previous and leading up to it. 440 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 3: I have a reasonable amount of confidence in David Smith's account. 441 00:23:31,321 --> 00:23:34,521 Speaker 3: I have got a letter from his boss. David only 442 00:23:34,561 --> 00:23:37,200 Speaker 3: came forward in twenty fifteen. He didn't realize that he 443 00:23:37,241 --> 00:23:40,121 Speaker 3: had seen anything of any note. He didn't even realize 444 00:23:40,561 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 3: that it was Polly Reserved. 445 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:43,441 Speaker 1: That the children went from. 446 00:23:43,481 --> 00:23:47,360 Speaker 3: He thought they disappeared during the Base Sheffield Race, which 447 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 3: is completely different. David went off to Puckepaniel three days 448 00:23:51,761 --> 00:23:53,921 Speaker 3: after the Bowman I'm done. Some three or four days 449 00:23:53,921 --> 00:23:56,200 Speaker 3: after went off to the Vietnam and he didn't come 450 00:23:56,241 --> 00:23:58,561 Speaker 3: back in a very good space. But he did have 451 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:02,321 Speaker 3: a letter from his boss at Clarson's Glass that stated 452 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:06,561 Speaker 3: the twenty seventh of January nineteen sixty six to his lieutenant, 453 00:24:06,761 --> 00:24:10,121 Speaker 3: describing him as a sensational person who could be put 454 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 3: into any role that he might want while he's. 455 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,281 Speaker 1: Serving, and it was a fantastic character. He should fit 456 00:24:16,441 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 1: very well there. 457 00:24:17,521 --> 00:24:20,001 Speaker 3: David says that it was his last day of work 458 00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:23,440 Speaker 3: and he was covering someone else's shift, someone else's round 459 00:24:23,521 --> 00:24:24,680 Speaker 3: with Clarkson's glass. 460 00:24:24,921 --> 00:24:26,401 Speaker 1: He wouldn't normally be at clam. 461 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 3: Out, so I can certainly put him in that space 462 00:24:30,120 --> 00:24:32,880 Speaker 3: on that day. I can also certainly put him No 463 00:24:32,921 --> 00:24:35,961 Speaker 3: one's ever really, I just never come out and told 464 00:24:36,001 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 3: us the identity of the old lady on the bench 465 00:24:39,201 --> 00:24:42,321 Speaker 3: who confirmed is a witness to the kids playing with 466 00:24:42,360 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 3: a man. Well, David Smith could tell us where she lived, 467 00:24:46,321 --> 00:24:49,641 Speaker 3: so I think he's quite credible. That's what you've got 468 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,841 Speaker 3: to do is I go about looking at the investigation 469 00:24:53,001 --> 00:24:55,441 Speaker 3: space as I'll try to prove you wrong, because it's 470 00:24:55,441 --> 00:24:57,160 Speaker 3: so much easier to prove someone wrong than it is 471 00:24:57,201 --> 00:24:59,321 Speaker 3: to prove the right. So we look at these ways 472 00:24:59,360 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 3: or how to discount them as a real witness, and 473 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:02,681 Speaker 3: I can't discount. 474 00:25:04,120 --> 00:25:07,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems the work wasn't done on Les Davis 475 00:25:07,921 --> 00:25:10,041 Speaker 2: because of course ninety sixty six he's not on. 476 00:25:10,001 --> 00:25:12,201 Speaker 4: The radar as a sex offender. 477 00:25:12,681 --> 00:25:14,241 Speaker 2: It may well have been active at that time, but 478 00:25:14,281 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 2: it's not till the late eighties when the full extent 479 00:25:17,041 --> 00:25:18,961 Speaker 2: of his proclivities is revealed. 480 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:21,241 Speaker 4: So he goes under the radar. 481 00:25:21,321 --> 00:25:23,321 Speaker 2: Do you know if South Australia Police is about they 482 00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:24,441 Speaker 2: had a good look at him. 483 00:25:25,041 --> 00:25:26,721 Speaker 4: Based on what you're saying. 484 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,921 Speaker 3: I know that they searched probably is at corn and Jongla, 485 00:25:31,360 --> 00:25:34,921 Speaker 3: which is not surprisingly just around the corner from stan 486 00:25:35,001 --> 00:25:38,801 Speaker 3: Harts Place and also a place where the Marshall family Mark. 487 00:25:38,921 --> 00:25:41,961 Speaker 3: Marshall's family Mark being the one who wrote the confession 488 00:25:42,001 --> 00:25:45,801 Speaker 3: to the Mulleting Inquiry about his grandfather and family being 489 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,561 Speaker 3: involved in that Adelaide oval case. So please did search 490 00:25:49,681 --> 00:25:54,561 Speaker 3: those locations in recent months? I opposed a question to 491 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,881 Speaker 3: Detective Heath Leena. He's the lead detective on the Adelaide 492 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,241 Speaker 3: Oval case. You know whether he'd be sharing some details 493 00:26:01,241 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 3: about their investigations into Les Davis and I'm going to 494 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,680 Speaker 3: every flat though we will not be so I do 495 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:08,561 Speaker 3: know that they've done that. 496 00:26:08,681 --> 00:26:10,721 Speaker 1: The people that have been closer to that. 497 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,761 Speaker 3: Have let me know that they were there at certain times. 498 00:26:13,801 --> 00:26:17,281 Speaker 3: Police were there at certain times doing at least some. 499 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:24,241 Speaker 2: Checks, right, because I guess Southern Tralia Police could be 500 00:26:24,281 --> 00:26:28,321 Speaker 2: a little gun shy about new suspects given they brought 501 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:32,400 Speaker 2: into the whole Harry Phipps theory that Glenell resident Harry Phipps, 502 00:26:32,481 --> 00:26:36,360 Speaker 2: the businessman largely on the strength of testimony from his 503 00:26:36,441 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 2: son Hayden took the children and that he was a 504 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,360 Speaker 2: known piti fi, that he abused his own family. And 505 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,160 Speaker 2: it's all on the say so of Hayden. And I 506 00:26:45,201 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 2: looked at this up and down, and I always had 507 00:26:46,681 --> 00:26:50,321 Speaker 2: doubts about it. But on the strength of this evidence 508 00:26:50,360 --> 00:26:53,281 Speaker 2: from Hayden, and that also that Harry Phipps might have 509 00:26:53,441 --> 00:26:57,281 Speaker 2: buried the children on the side of his CASTELLOI factory 510 00:26:57,321 --> 00:27:00,481 Speaker 2: there in North Blimpton, they went and they didn't find anything, 511 00:27:00,721 --> 00:27:02,640 Speaker 2: and they seem to have pulled back from any active 512 00:27:02,761 --> 00:27:06,561 Speaker 2: role in investigating Leeds since what do you know of 513 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:08,801 Speaker 2: their attitude towards the Bonont case. 514 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:12,441 Speaker 3: Now, I've got to say that it's more the Adelaide 515 00:27:12,481 --> 00:27:15,801 Speaker 3: Oval case that I've obviously had direct contact with him, 516 00:27:15,801 --> 00:27:19,801 Speaker 3: and the attitude there is that they don't suggest that 517 00:27:20,201 --> 00:27:24,400 Speaker 3: anything we've been doing up at Yatna and searching around 518 00:27:24,441 --> 00:27:28,681 Speaker 3: there has relevance to them. I In fact, their suggestion 519 00:27:28,921 --> 00:27:32,561 Speaker 3: from the Police Commissioner Grant Stephens when we first started 520 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,201 Speaker 3: up there was that we shouldn't be giving families. 521 00:27:34,761 --> 00:27:36,880 Speaker 1: False hope by doing what we're doing. 522 00:27:37,521 --> 00:27:40,521 Speaker 3: Since that time, they have engaged with the evidence that 523 00:27:40,561 --> 00:27:43,360 Speaker 3: we've been providing to them, in that they compelled me 524 00:27:43,441 --> 00:27:46,880 Speaker 3: to hand over a bone which referred to as the 525 00:27:46,961 --> 00:27:49,841 Speaker 3: Yatna class bone. It's a bone that we found at 526 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,201 Speaker 3: the property of San Hart's looking at a very specific location. 527 00:27:53,360 --> 00:27:57,361 Speaker 3: We're actually looking for suitcases that we were told we're 528 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 3: buried in the backyard that had come from inside stan 529 00:28:01,321 --> 00:28:06,160 Speaker 3: Hart's strong room. Stan didn't use banks room within his house. 530 00:28:06,561 --> 00:28:08,921 Speaker 3: They referred to it as it was puff as Joe 531 00:28:09,001 --> 00:28:10,801 Speaker 3: and also his strong room. He weren't allowed to go 532 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:14,920 Speaker 3: in there, and he dealt in cash only. These suitcases, 533 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 3: the contents of which weren't known by the people that 534 00:28:18,321 --> 00:28:20,400 Speaker 3: buried him, were buried in the backyard and we were 535 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,761 Speaker 3: appointed directly to where to look for those suitcases. And 536 00:28:23,801 --> 00:28:27,561 Speaker 3: it was within the remnants of a suitcase that we 537 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,841 Speaker 3: found that bone with glass lodged into it. It is 538 00:28:32,961 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 3: it is pelvic bone, and it is juvenile pelvic bone. 539 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,881 Speaker 3: It is ninety percent light that to be human. And 540 00:28:38,921 --> 00:28:43,281 Speaker 3: that's as assessed by Marchie Henneberg. So I was compelled 541 00:28:43,401 --> 00:28:45,921 Speaker 3: once we had that reasonable suspicion that it was human. 542 00:28:46,081 --> 00:28:49,121 Speaker 3: Compelled by South Australian Police to hand over that bone. 543 00:28:49,441 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 3: I was intending to send it or part of it 544 00:28:52,361 --> 00:28:56,921 Speaker 3: overseas for independent testing, and I had, under instruction from Marchie, 545 00:28:57,121 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 3: I'd taken some cuttings of the bone to hand to 546 00:29:00,081 --> 00:29:02,321 Speaker 3: South Australian Police one part of that so they could 547 00:29:02,321 --> 00:29:06,841 Speaker 3: test that forensically. Because they hadn't aids with what we 548 00:29:06,841 --> 00:29:09,681 Speaker 3: were doing. They did not want to know the barrels 549 00:29:09,721 --> 00:29:13,161 Speaker 3: that I say we've got. We still have them. I 550 00:29:13,201 --> 00:29:16,401 Speaker 3: have offered to take them to police multiple times and 551 00:29:16,441 --> 00:29:19,480 Speaker 3: I've been denied multiple times. 552 00:29:19,521 --> 00:29:22,241 Speaker 4: They don't want to know them. Tell us about the barrels. 553 00:29:22,521 --> 00:29:25,961 Speaker 3: The barrels were located at the Pigna Reservoir and they 554 00:29:26,001 --> 00:29:29,361 Speaker 3: were located by following a map that Mark Marshall grew 555 00:29:29,601 --> 00:29:32,561 Speaker 3: from his prison cell in two thousand and seven and 556 00:29:32,641 --> 00:29:35,481 Speaker 3: formed part of the Marligan Inquiry into the abuse of 557 00:29:35,561 --> 00:29:38,281 Speaker 3: children in state care. He put an X on the 558 00:29:38,281 --> 00:29:40,281 Speaker 3: map and said this is where you'll find the two 559 00:29:40,321 --> 00:29:45,121 Speaker 3: girls in this tunnel. When South Australian Police were taken 560 00:29:45,161 --> 00:29:48,281 Speaker 3: to that site on Christmas Eve two thousand and eight, 561 00:29:48,441 --> 00:29:52,321 Speaker 3: and also to stan Hart's shack at Yatna by the 562 00:29:52,361 --> 00:29:56,081 Speaker 3: private investigators who do have links with the outlaw motorcycle gang. 563 00:29:57,041 --> 00:30:00,041 Speaker 3: They could not locate the tunnel to spot that. Standing 564 00:30:00,041 --> 00:30:02,241 Speaker 3: one meter in front of it, looking at the wall 565 00:30:02,321 --> 00:30:05,801 Speaker 3: of a rock based wall, they sten, there's no tunnel here. 566 00:30:06,401 --> 00:30:09,681 Speaker 3: We're done here, nothing to see here. Funnily enough, when 567 00:30:09,721 --> 00:30:12,281 Speaker 3: I asked them about the exercise. 568 00:30:11,721 --> 00:30:12,761 Speaker 1: Of them going out there. 569 00:30:12,801 --> 00:30:15,761 Speaker 3: When I asked in twenty eleven, South Australian Police denied 570 00:30:15,841 --> 00:30:18,921 Speaker 3: having any knowledge of even going out there, and I said, no, 571 00:30:19,041 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 3: we've never done that. 572 00:30:19,761 --> 00:30:21,201 Speaker 1: You're barking up the wrong tree, Bryan. 573 00:30:21,841 --> 00:30:24,841 Speaker 3: I probably showed them some video and photographs so they're 574 00:30:24,881 --> 00:30:27,481 Speaker 3: detectives out there, and they they said, oh, well, okay, 575 00:30:27,521 --> 00:30:29,681 Speaker 3: so we did go out there, but that doesn't mean anything. 576 00:30:30,481 --> 00:30:32,041 Speaker 1: They didn't locate the tunnel. 577 00:30:32,441 --> 00:30:37,241 Speaker 3: The private investigators math the cow site rock face wall 578 00:30:37,321 --> 00:30:41,321 Speaker 3: of the reservoir, opened up the very large tunnel and 579 00:30:41,361 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 3: pulled out two barrels, the contents of which have been tested. 580 00:30:45,441 --> 00:30:48,361 Speaker 3: They were tested in the Say forensics lab in two 581 00:30:48,361 --> 00:30:51,361 Speaker 3: thousand and nine. They tested positive for a weak trace 582 00:30:51,361 --> 00:30:55,241 Speaker 3: of blood and strong traces of ACCID. We've had them 583 00:30:55,281 --> 00:30:58,881 Speaker 3: tested multiple times and not the team Globin in there 584 00:30:59,201 --> 00:31:03,641 Speaker 3: and it was that at police said they're inconclusive, but 585 00:31:03,681 --> 00:31:05,841 Speaker 3: as a hell of a hell of a bloody effort 586 00:31:05,881 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 3: to go to a few kangaroo baites, isn't it? 587 00:31:08,921 --> 00:31:10,841 Speaker 2: Well, it is, but your belief is that there was 588 00:31:10,921 --> 00:31:14,361 Speaker 2: acid used to dissolve bodies inside those barrels. 589 00:31:15,561 --> 00:31:18,321 Speaker 3: And we will check those barrels out with a fine 590 00:31:18,361 --> 00:31:21,321 Speaker 3: tooth combe. We've not done that because we wanted to 591 00:31:21,321 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 3: be able to provide that material to South Australian Police. 592 00:31:25,041 --> 00:31:29,161 Speaker 3: We've tried desperately a number of times to make them 593 00:31:29,201 --> 00:31:32,921 Speaker 3: available to South Australian Police and they've showed no interest. 594 00:31:33,081 --> 00:31:37,641 Speaker 3: So when you ask about the interest of police in 595 00:31:37,881 --> 00:31:43,281 Speaker 3: the Beaumont case, I'm seeing similar sorts of pushback or 596 00:31:43,401 --> 00:31:46,481 Speaker 3: non acceptance of leeds as I am in the Adelaide 597 00:31:46,521 --> 00:31:48,921 Speaker 3: Over case, which I've been working on for much longer, 598 00:31:49,121 --> 00:31:52,561 Speaker 3: but as far as much more detail, because we've had 599 00:31:52,801 --> 00:31:56,121 Speaker 3: better leads. I can say right now, Adam that we 600 00:31:56,161 --> 00:31:58,401 Speaker 3: are working around And you know, as a journalist and 601 00:31:58,881 --> 00:32:02,321 Speaker 3: when you go into places to look at such crimes, 602 00:32:02,441 --> 00:32:04,481 Speaker 3: you get a lot of pushback from the community. Right 603 00:32:05,041 --> 00:32:08,121 Speaker 3: people don't want to know the journalists trying to write 604 00:32:08,161 --> 00:32:10,601 Speaker 3: the story and are you're just here to sensationalize and 605 00:32:10,641 --> 00:32:12,681 Speaker 3: you're going to make our town look bad and all 606 00:32:12,681 --> 00:32:13,361 Speaker 3: this sort of stuff. 607 00:32:14,081 --> 00:32:16,081 Speaker 1: I'm in the app and now doing this stuff with 608 00:32:16,241 --> 00:32:17,561 Speaker 1: a fantastic team. 609 00:32:17,801 --> 00:32:20,361 Speaker 3: But the support that we are getting in that community 610 00:32:20,721 --> 00:32:25,161 Speaker 3: from the locals is overwhelming, the positive, the amount of 611 00:32:25,521 --> 00:32:30,641 Speaker 3: information that's flowing through. I can't believe how much detail 612 00:32:30,681 --> 00:32:34,521 Speaker 3: we're getting. There is not one person that I've heard 613 00:32:34,561 --> 00:32:37,641 Speaker 3: from in that region that says we're on the wrong trap. 614 00:32:38,201 --> 00:32:40,961 Speaker 3: And I've had dozens and dozens and dozens They Bill 615 00:32:41,001 --> 00:32:43,521 Speaker 3: knew it was him, Bill knew it was him. 616 00:32:44,721 --> 00:32:45,241 Speaker 1: Stand Hart. 617 00:32:46,361 --> 00:32:49,201 Speaker 2: You talk about a level of protection for these suspects 618 00:32:49,241 --> 00:32:54,081 Speaker 2: in South Australia, possible collusion, cooperation, working together. Of course, 619 00:32:54,081 --> 00:32:57,001 Speaker 2: this brings up the specter of the family. Do you 620 00:32:57,081 --> 00:32:59,401 Speaker 2: believe in the family that there was this high level 621 00:32:59,401 --> 00:33:03,401 Speaker 2: group of pedophiles abducting, abusing and murdering children. 622 00:33:04,281 --> 00:33:04,561 Speaker 1: I do. 623 00:33:05,721 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 3: Why Well, I've got the maps that map out the 624 00:33:08,441 --> 00:33:11,801 Speaker 3: whole network, and we've had them. They were produced in 625 00:33:11,801 --> 00:33:15,641 Speaker 3: two thousand and four, So I do believe in that, 626 00:33:15,761 --> 00:33:21,641 Speaker 3: and I'm seeing direct evidence to support the fact that 627 00:33:21,721 --> 00:33:24,841 Speaker 3: someone the likes of stan Hart had the eyear of 628 00:33:25,241 --> 00:33:28,281 Speaker 3: very very influential people at the time when he was 629 00:33:28,321 --> 00:33:31,521 Speaker 3: going through his court case in nineteen sixty six, that 630 00:33:31,641 --> 00:33:34,761 Speaker 3: he had the confidence there to say that people know 631 00:33:34,921 --> 00:33:38,641 Speaker 3: that you're telling lies. This is a victim to torment 632 00:33:38,801 --> 00:33:42,881 Speaker 3: that victim with letters or have letters written to torment 633 00:33:43,001 --> 00:33:46,601 Speaker 3: him to say that Don Dunstan, who would then become premier, 634 00:33:47,041 --> 00:33:51,041 Speaker 3: knows that you're lying to These were crimes that the 635 00:33:51,161 --> 00:33:53,801 Speaker 3: judge said that he should be put away for life 636 00:33:53,841 --> 00:33:58,000 Speaker 3: for stand Hart the abuse of this one girl, and 637 00:33:58,041 --> 00:34:00,961 Speaker 3: she's come on to sleepers and spoken about this. The brave, 638 00:34:01,081 --> 00:34:04,641 Speaker 3: brave woman she is. Her life was destroyed by that man. 639 00:34:05,801 --> 00:34:10,521 Speaker 3: Now he was told in court by the judge that 640 00:34:10,921 --> 00:34:13,721 Speaker 3: he was deserving of a life sentence what he had done. 641 00:34:14,601 --> 00:34:16,440 Speaker 3: He got three years and he was out with him 642 00:34:16,721 --> 00:34:20,440 Speaker 3: just over a year. One month after Don Duncan became 643 00:34:20,521 --> 00:34:24,041 Speaker 3: Premier who a letter to this victim to torment her 644 00:34:24,601 --> 00:34:28,561 Speaker 3: made reference direct reference to Don Dunstan knowing that she 645 00:34:28,801 --> 00:34:33,001 Speaker 3: was like, doesn't stack up to me, you know it 646 00:34:33,121 --> 00:34:36,881 Speaker 3: speaks from him. There's writings from his family from sand 647 00:34:36,881 --> 00:34:40,481 Speaker 3: Hart's family that say that he made direct deals with 648 00:34:40,561 --> 00:34:44,081 Speaker 3: Don Dunstan over the care of his intellectually disabled sun 649 00:34:44,761 --> 00:34:45,441 Speaker 3: direct deals. 650 00:34:45,481 --> 00:34:47,601 Speaker 1: Don Duncan went to a convicted. 651 00:34:47,121 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 3: Pedophile's house and made a deal with him to look 652 00:34:50,521 --> 00:34:55,041 Speaker 3: after his intellectually disabled some for life. That rings alarm 653 00:34:55,081 --> 00:34:56,921 Speaker 3: bells to me when we start to talk about this. 654 00:34:57,441 --> 00:35:01,321 Speaker 3: Whether it's protection or a level of knowledge and communication 655 00:35:01,801 --> 00:35:05,201 Speaker 3: between these people, that might be all it is, but 656 00:35:05,201 --> 00:35:07,081 Speaker 3: there's definitely evidence to support that. 657 00:35:07,121 --> 00:35:09,361 Speaker 2: Adam right and a lot of people say this, And 658 00:35:09,401 --> 00:35:11,641 Speaker 2: one of the key figures who could help in all 659 00:35:11,681 --> 00:35:16,481 Speaker 2: this is Bevan Spencer von Ainem, convicted child murderer. He 660 00:35:16,641 --> 00:35:19,401 Speaker 2: killed fifteen year old Richard Kelvin, the son of Rob Kelvin, 661 00:35:19,441 --> 00:35:21,001 Speaker 2: the newsreader back in nine and eighty four. 662 00:35:21,121 --> 00:35:22,281 Speaker 4: Was convicted nine eighty four. 663 00:35:23,241 --> 00:35:26,601 Speaker 2: Unfortunately, since we did this interview, Bevan Spencer von Einem 664 00:35:27,081 --> 00:35:30,281 Speaker 2: died taking his filthy secrets to the grave. 665 00:35:31,281 --> 00:35:33,161 Speaker 4: He could help so much. Do you think he has 666 00:35:33,201 --> 00:35:35,561 Speaker 4: information that could resolve some of this? 667 00:35:36,481 --> 00:35:39,001 Speaker 3: Oh, definitely he has information that could resolve some of this. 668 00:35:39,441 --> 00:35:41,401 Speaker 3: But it's not information that's not known by a whole 669 00:35:41,441 --> 00:35:44,641 Speaker 3: heap of people who aren't in prison and can readily speak. 670 00:35:45,321 --> 00:35:49,281 Speaker 3: It's not unknown by a whole heap of people who 671 00:35:49,361 --> 00:35:52,881 Speaker 3: are in positions of authority who could readily put that 672 00:35:52,961 --> 00:35:54,561 Speaker 3: out there into the public arena. 673 00:35:55,441 --> 00:35:56,201 Speaker 1: Of course it is. 674 00:35:56,721 --> 00:35:59,601 Speaker 2: And I think the success of Sleepers and the amount 675 00:35:59,601 --> 00:36:03,121 Speaker 2: of people coming to you, listening to the podcast, coming 676 00:36:03,161 --> 00:36:07,121 Speaker 2: to your Facebook page making Contrybus shows the level of 677 00:36:07,561 --> 00:36:11,361 Speaker 2: skepticism by the average person in South Australia. The justice 678 00:36:11,361 --> 00:36:14,001 Speaker 2: has not been done and the conspiracies, if you can 679 00:36:14,041 --> 00:36:17,921 Speaker 2: call them that, do persist. They're not resolved. And as 680 00:36:17,961 --> 00:36:21,041 Speaker 2: you say, there are people out there who know more 681 00:36:21,161 --> 00:36:22,081 Speaker 2: and haven't shared it. 682 00:36:22,641 --> 00:36:27,441 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really hard with the Sleepers thing because some people, 683 00:36:27,561 --> 00:36:29,321 Speaker 3: if you sit there and go they might go I 684 00:36:29,401 --> 00:36:31,321 Speaker 3: know this, and I know this, and I saw this. 685 00:36:31,881 --> 00:36:34,440 Speaker 3: I've made the rule that we have to be able 686 00:36:34,441 --> 00:36:36,961 Speaker 3: to connect it to an authority, you know, there has 687 00:36:36,961 --> 00:36:38,921 Speaker 3: to have been some police action or so we can 688 00:36:39,041 --> 00:36:42,441 Speaker 3: actually bring it back and close that loop so you 689 00:36:42,441 --> 00:36:45,961 Speaker 3: can get past that word conspiracy. No, this happened, There 690 00:36:46,001 --> 00:36:48,121 Speaker 3: is a result here, or there is these people have 691 00:36:48,241 --> 00:36:51,001 Speaker 3: been to authorities and tried to be heard and they 692 00:36:51,041 --> 00:36:53,521 Speaker 3: haven't been heard, or it's just got buried in there. 693 00:36:53,641 --> 00:36:56,161 Speaker 3: There was so much of this stuff going on through 694 00:36:56,161 --> 00:36:59,121 Speaker 3: a period of our life in South Australia and around Australia. 695 00:36:59,201 --> 00:37:02,041 Speaker 3: There's no doubt around the world that this stuff has 696 00:37:02,321 --> 00:37:04,801 Speaker 3: always happened, but there was so much of it too. 697 00:37:05,121 --> 00:37:09,001 Speaker 3: Actually get something that isn't drowned out by the smaller 698 00:37:09,321 --> 00:37:12,681 Speaker 3: And I hate being saying that that no abuse of 699 00:37:12,721 --> 00:37:15,521 Speaker 3: a child is insignificant, right, but there's some that's more 700 00:37:15,561 --> 00:37:19,201 Speaker 3: important to actually finding the answers. So that's one of 701 00:37:19,281 --> 00:37:22,161 Speaker 3: the challenges with doing something like this is you just 702 00:37:22,241 --> 00:37:26,161 Speaker 3: get a pile on of information and it's again sorting 703 00:37:26,201 --> 00:37:28,841 Speaker 3: out what you can work with rather than you know, 704 00:37:29,361 --> 00:37:31,241 Speaker 3: not ignoring, but what can I work with to get 705 00:37:31,281 --> 00:37:32,041 Speaker 3: to that next step? 706 00:37:33,241 --> 00:37:37,121 Speaker 2: And might I add that you're doing all this out 707 00:37:37,121 --> 00:37:39,681 Speaker 2: of love really, and you're out here, you're supporting all 708 00:37:39,721 --> 00:37:42,641 Speaker 2: your work by working on the family farm. 709 00:37:43,081 --> 00:37:45,041 Speaker 3: Yeah, well you know, people get oh, I want to 710 00:37:45,081 --> 00:37:46,441 Speaker 3: answer my question, why don't you do this? 711 00:37:46,521 --> 00:37:48,441 Speaker 1: Look, I have a farm, I have a family. 712 00:37:48,921 --> 00:37:53,321 Speaker 3: I write fifteen hours a week for a newspaper and Douglass, 713 00:37:53,401 --> 00:37:56,081 Speaker 3: but I live here in Victor Harbor on the farm. 714 00:37:56,441 --> 00:37:58,761 Speaker 1: I run some sporting organizations. 715 00:37:58,801 --> 00:38:01,681 Speaker 3: I'm the president of the Tennis Association, and then I 716 00:38:01,721 --> 00:38:04,681 Speaker 3: actually have a full time job as a milk fact feell. 717 00:38:06,041 --> 00:38:09,441 Speaker 1: So everything I do with sleeper is in my spare time. 718 00:38:10,041 --> 00:38:12,841 Speaker 2: Now, Let's hope that there can be more focus on 719 00:38:12,921 --> 00:38:15,321 Speaker 2: Leslie Davis as a possible such because I think he 720 00:38:15,361 --> 00:38:18,881 Speaker 2: needs to be eliminated on the basis of what you've said. Unfortunately, 721 00:38:18,921 --> 00:38:21,641 Speaker 2: he can't help us. He died in nineteen ninety eight. 722 00:38:21,681 --> 00:38:25,241 Speaker 1: What happened, Yeah, he took his own life in u Dunda. 723 00:38:25,681 --> 00:38:27,881 Speaker 1: He had gassed himself. 724 00:38:28,401 --> 00:38:31,761 Speaker 3: He was released from prison after that incident in nineteen 725 00:38:31,841 --> 00:38:33,721 Speaker 3: where he's convicted in nineteen ninety one. 726 00:38:33,721 --> 00:38:34,681 Speaker 1: Who is released in prison? 727 00:38:34,761 --> 00:38:39,401 Speaker 3: He went over to WA and in WA he breached. 728 00:38:39,041 --> 00:38:41,801 Speaker 1: His parole and was locked up there for a bit. 729 00:38:42,081 --> 00:38:45,001 Speaker 3: When he came back, he did spend some time in 730 00:38:45,601 --> 00:38:48,481 Speaker 3: Port Lincoln prison and we understand at the time that 731 00:38:48,521 --> 00:38:51,281 Speaker 3: he took his own life. He was not much longer 732 00:38:51,681 --> 00:38:55,561 Speaker 3: after his sister Margaret, he's one real supporter, She had 733 00:38:55,561 --> 00:38:58,161 Speaker 3: died of a heart attack and within the next two 734 00:38:58,241 --> 00:39:01,801 Speaker 3: months he had taken his own life. Family suggests that 735 00:39:02,201 --> 00:39:05,201 Speaker 3: he probably knew his gig was up, but he was 736 00:39:05,281 --> 00:39:10,001 Speaker 3: also facing some fresh charges for child abuse around that 737 00:39:10,081 --> 00:39:13,841 Speaker 3: time of being investigated for it. We know some stage 738 00:39:14,321 --> 00:39:18,041 Speaker 3: he tried to take his own life. At the my 739 00:39:18,161 --> 00:39:23,201 Speaker 3: Ponger Reservoir, which gives rise to us thinking more about 740 00:39:23,241 --> 00:39:25,681 Speaker 3: a link with the Beaumont case. As you would know 741 00:39:25,761 --> 00:39:28,761 Speaker 3: that police did put a lot of effort into searching 742 00:39:28,761 --> 00:39:32,121 Speaker 3: at the my Ponger Reservoir in relation to the bone. 743 00:39:32,161 --> 00:39:34,401 Speaker 4: I think they drained didn't they drain it at the. 744 00:39:34,361 --> 00:39:38,481 Speaker 1: Time they did dive there in nineteen sixty six. I 745 00:39:38,521 --> 00:39:38,721 Speaker 1: know this. 746 00:39:38,761 --> 00:39:41,001 Speaker 3: So I used to work with the with Say Water, 747 00:39:41,201 --> 00:39:43,641 Speaker 3: and my job was to do the public relations for 748 00:39:43,681 --> 00:39:47,321 Speaker 3: the reservoir program a few years ago at the time 749 00:39:47,441 --> 00:39:49,601 Speaker 3: that my Ponger Reservoir would have been very low at 750 00:39:49,601 --> 00:39:52,841 Speaker 3: the time in nineteen sixty six. So the reservoir keepers, 751 00:39:52,961 --> 00:39:55,001 Speaker 3: way back when I was a journalist at the Victor Times, 752 00:39:55,001 --> 00:39:57,281 Speaker 3: I did stories there. The reservoir has actually got the 753 00:39:57,321 --> 00:39:59,641 Speaker 3: walls actually got hollows all the way through it, tunnels 754 00:39:59,641 --> 00:40:02,321 Speaker 3: all the way through it to part of the design 755 00:40:02,361 --> 00:40:05,601 Speaker 3: which relieves pressure. So i'd gone on two were there 756 00:40:05,841 --> 00:40:08,761 Speaker 3: having a look, and the reservoir keeper had said that 757 00:40:09,121 --> 00:40:11,881 Speaker 3: if the children had been dumped in their reservoir, he 758 00:40:11,921 --> 00:40:13,881 Speaker 3: would have been very hard for them to find it 759 00:40:14,441 --> 00:40:16,161 Speaker 3: because it would have been right in that middle part 760 00:40:16,201 --> 00:40:19,721 Speaker 3: because of the water level at the time of the 761 00:40:19,841 --> 00:40:23,321 Speaker 3: abduction was quite low, lots of silk in there, things 762 00:40:23,361 --> 00:40:27,761 Speaker 3: like that. But we know that Les Davis actually worked 763 00:40:28,481 --> 00:40:32,201 Speaker 3: on a project at the my Ponger Reservoir in around 764 00:40:32,281 --> 00:40:36,440 Speaker 3: the time of the Beaumont abduction in nineteen sixty six. 765 00:40:36,641 --> 00:40:39,001 Speaker 1: He was doing some concreting there. That was one of 766 00:40:39,041 --> 00:40:40,121 Speaker 1: many jobs that he did. 767 00:40:40,361 --> 00:40:43,801 Speaker 3: And he had stated to people that he lived with 768 00:40:44,521 --> 00:40:48,401 Speaker 3: later on in life that his special place, his secret place, 769 00:40:48,441 --> 00:40:53,041 Speaker 3: was at the Myponger Reservoir. And that's where told we 770 00:40:53,201 --> 00:40:56,281 Speaker 3: laid by those family members. He tried to take his 771 00:40:56,361 --> 00:41:00,681 Speaker 3: own life by strangling himself with his own belt at 772 00:41:00,681 --> 00:41:02,801 Speaker 3: the Mypunger Reservoir at one stage. 773 00:41:03,401 --> 00:41:06,161 Speaker 2: Yeah, a man consumed with his own guilt and haunted 774 00:41:06,201 --> 00:41:10,401 Speaker 2: by memories of what he may have done. 775 00:41:11,001 --> 00:41:13,121 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Les Davis. 776 00:41:13,121 --> 00:41:16,121 Speaker 3: Also we've learnt very recently that he was sent up 777 00:41:16,161 --> 00:41:20,001 Speaker 3: to Alice Springs to live for a certain time by 778 00:41:20,041 --> 00:41:22,241 Speaker 3: his family. It's just told to get out, put on 779 00:41:22,281 --> 00:41:24,001 Speaker 3: a bus and sent up there or on the train. 780 00:41:24,561 --> 00:41:27,641 Speaker 3: And he did live in some town camp communities up 781 00:41:27,721 --> 00:41:31,561 Speaker 3: there in Alice Springs as well. And having been up 782 00:41:31,561 --> 00:41:33,961 Speaker 3: in Alice Springs, and I've got some very close connections 783 00:41:34,001 --> 00:41:36,681 Speaker 3: with community up there. I was editor of the paper 784 00:41:36,681 --> 00:41:38,961 Speaker 3: in l Springs for a while back in twenty thirteen 785 00:41:38,961 --> 00:41:42,841 Speaker 3: and twenty fourteen. Absolutely scares the shit out of me, Adam, 786 00:41:43,201 --> 00:41:46,761 Speaker 3: that such a predator might have been in and around 787 00:41:46,761 --> 00:41:47,601 Speaker 3: those communities. 788 00:41:47,641 --> 00:41:51,281 Speaker 1: So I would very much love to hear. 789 00:41:51,521 --> 00:41:54,241 Speaker 3: Some feedback from those people up there, And that's one 790 00:41:54,281 --> 00:41:55,921 Speaker 3: of the next steps I'm going to take is to 791 00:41:55,961 --> 00:41:58,601 Speaker 3: see if I can get some more learnings about Les 792 00:41:58,721 --> 00:42:03,161 Speaker 3: Davis in that community up there, because I'm afraid a 793 00:42:03,201 --> 00:42:04,081 Speaker 3: playground for him. 794 00:42:05,201 --> 00:42:05,761 Speaker 4: You all the best. 795 00:42:05,801 --> 00:42:07,841 Speaker 2: I think your work has just begun, and I think 796 00:42:07,961 --> 00:42:11,361 Speaker 2: the information coming through will continue, and I hopefully you 797 00:42:11,361 --> 00:42:14,721 Speaker 2: get some sort of resolution because these cases, every year 798 00:42:14,761 --> 00:42:17,521 Speaker 2: that passes the chance of resolution just gyms out a 799 00:42:17,521 --> 00:42:19,601 Speaker 2: little bit more So while people are still alive and 800 00:42:19,641 --> 00:42:21,881 Speaker 2: coming forward, they should come to sleepers. 801 00:42:21,881 --> 00:42:24,361 Speaker 4: Thank you, Brian, You've lived several lives, mate. I mean, 802 00:42:25,321 --> 00:42:26,721 Speaker 4: how are you sure there aren't two of you? 803 00:42:27,241 --> 00:42:28,241 Speaker 1: But I don't know. 804 00:42:28,681 --> 00:42:29,841 Speaker 4: You're doing an amazing job. 805 00:42:30,841 --> 00:42:31,961 Speaker 1: Thank you very much, Adam. 806 00:42:32,001 --> 00:42:35,081 Speaker 3: And what I like to say is, you know nineteen 807 00:42:35,161 --> 00:42:39,001 Speaker 3: seventy three at that adelaide Able abduction, Joanne Ratcliffe fort 808 00:42:39,041 --> 00:42:42,001 Speaker 3: and fort Here abduct there. All the witness accounts say that, 809 00:42:42,881 --> 00:42:44,801 Speaker 3: and what I like to say is we need to 810 00:42:44,801 --> 00:42:47,281 Speaker 3: show the courage of eleven year old girl. We need 811 00:42:47,321 --> 00:42:50,241 Speaker 3: to fight like Jay when we do looking at these cases, 812 00:42:50,281 --> 00:42:54,281 Speaker 3: because there's so more courage than I think any cop 813 00:42:54,841 --> 00:42:59,241 Speaker 3: or authority that I've ever seen. An eleven year old girl, 814 00:42:59,361 --> 00:43:02,001 Speaker 3: so more courage than anyone that I've seen when I'm 815 00:43:02,041 --> 00:43:04,241 Speaker 3: dealing with these cases, I like Jay. 816 00:43:05,121 --> 00:43:09,001 Speaker 4: That's a very powerful notion. Brian, thanks for your time today, mate. 817 00:43:12,521 --> 00:43:16,921 Speaker 2: That's Brian Litterley of the Sleepers podcast. He's doing an 818 00:43:16,961 --> 00:43:22,401 Speaker 2: amazing job these cases, the Beaumonts, the Adelaide Oval abductions. 819 00:43:22,881 --> 00:43:26,001 Speaker 4: There are people out there who still know what happened. 820 00:43:26,321 --> 00:43:29,081 Speaker 2: They need to come forward while they're still trying to 821 00:43:29,081 --> 00:43:32,201 Speaker 2: bring some sort of resolution. If you know anything but 822 00:43:32,361 --> 00:43:34,641 Speaker 2: can assist, we're going to put the link for the 823 00:43:34,641 --> 00:43:38,401 Speaker 2: Sleepers podcast in the description. You can also send me 824 00:43:38,681 --> 00:43:42,241 Speaker 2: an email Adam Shanner, writer at gmail dot com. And 825 00:43:42,321 --> 00:43:45,001 Speaker 2: if you trust the police, you can always call crime Stoppers, 826 00:43:45,001 --> 00:43:47,201 Speaker 2: though in South Australia, I'm not sure it's going to 827 00:43:47,241 --> 00:43:48,681 Speaker 2: do you much good. There's a bit of a head 828 00:43:48,681 --> 00:43:50,401 Speaker 2: in the sound attitude there, but You can call them 829 00:43:50,401 --> 00:43:53,041 Speaker 2: anyway one hundred, triple three, triple zero. 830 00:43:53,841 --> 00:43:55,201 Speaker 4: Bring that information forward. 831 00:43:55,441 --> 00:43:58,121 Speaker 2: There's always someone out there that knows something or knows 832 00:43:58,121 --> 00:44:00,681 Speaker 2: someone that can resolve these Thanks for listening. 833 00:44:00,681 --> 00:44:02,361 Speaker 4: This has been Adam Shann for real crime.