1 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 1: This is the weekend edition of Fear and Greed business 2 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 1: news you can use. I'm Michael Thompson and good morning, 3 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: Sean Aylmer. 4 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:25,920 Speaker 2: Good morning Michael, Sean. 5 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: Our weekend show was all about the two of us, 6 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: each nominating what we think is the biggest business news 7 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: story of the week, the most remarkable story, a mystery 8 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: category that we change every single week, and then our 9 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 1: favorite business related story. We are joined every week by 10 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:42,599 Speaker 1: a judge because this is a competition and we do 11 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: need a winner, and that judge is our Fear and 12 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: Greed colleague Adam Lang, making his triumphant return to the 13 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: show after being felled by illness last week. 14 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 2: Welcome back, Adam. 15 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 3: Thank you very much. Michael, I'm almost one hundred percent 16 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 3: not quite there. And hello, Sean, Hello Adam. 17 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:00,080 Speaker 2: It's great to have you back. It's great to have 18 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 2: the three of us back, because it's been a show. 19 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not what you were saying last week, Sean. 20 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: You hamad Adam. Now in the recording, you gave him 21 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: a lot of. 22 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:14,839 Speaker 3: No more than. 23 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:18,040 Speaker 2: Usual, exactly, no more than usual. I didn't want him 24 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 2: to feel left out, and so constructive and well, the 25 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 2: only time I felt I was a bit mean because 26 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 2: everything else was constructive. Was when I think it was 27 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 2: like stories that are faltering, And I said, like Adam, 28 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 2: but I of course was referring to his health. 29 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:40,839 Speaker 4: Sure you, I don't think any of us believe that one, Adam. 30 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 4: We know what you're looking for. 31 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 1: It's the same criteria as always economic, important to a 32 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: bunch of other stuff, but most importantly melodrama. Yeah, let's 33 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: go with that. All right, let's go for it. Here 34 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: we go, Sean, would you like to go first for 35 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: the biggest story of the week. 36 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 2: Yep, this was tariff and Trump week. Yes we've been 37 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 2: saying that for weeks and months whatever, but this really 38 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 2: was it, because this is when they all kicked in. 39 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 2: US President Donald Trump announced a raft of tariffs on 40 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 2: friend and foe alike. He's trade deadline passed a week ago. 41 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 2: Study He's done relatively well attracting the ten percent tariff. 42 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 2: Some regions and countries ended up with lower tariffs and 43 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 2: first announced Liberation Day the European Unions, examples, South Koreas 44 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:23,920 Speaker 2: and other others much worse Brazil, of course, fifty percent 45 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 2: than others were hit with tariffs. Then they said, we're 46 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 2: still going to deal with Russia, so their tariffs were doubled. 47 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 2: India being the great example, then they're under Remodi. The 48 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 2: PM of India has spent a lot of time courting 49 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 2: Donald Trump for his efforts. Fifty percent tariff, thanks very much. 50 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 2: Some sector specific tariffs will be introduced as well. We 51 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:46,079 Speaker 2: know about things like aluminium and steel. Pharmaceuticals we're still 52 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 2: waiting on. This week, Trump said two hundred and fifty 53 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 2: percent for pharmaceuticals. We sell two billion dollars worth of 54 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 2: drugs to the US. Let's hope that's not going to happen. 55 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 2: The deals lack a certain amount of details, shall we say, 56 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 2: as in what there's no detail, This is not what 57 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 2: we expect from the president and know no. Then there's 58 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 2: all these promises to spend hundreds of billions of dollars 59 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 2: and Trumps running around this week saying, hey, we're making 60 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 2: lots of money for the US. 61 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 5: Ah. 62 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the economy is not looking real good though, 63 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 2: that's the problem. Most importantly, the latest set of country 64 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 2: and sector tariff rates still imply a rise in the 65 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 2: average US import tariff rate to eighteen percent. That's according 66 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 2: to a study from Yale eighteen percent tariffs that primarily 67 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,839 Speaker 2: will be passed through to the US consumer. We now 68 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 2: live officially this week it started in a tariff world. 69 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 2: Let's hope for the best. 70 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: I was just thinking about the like the way these 71 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: deals are done and some of the not dodgy accounting, 72 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: but just the way that the way that they are 73 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: kind of constructed. And you saw that story through the 74 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: week about Italy building a bridge, building the bridge to 75 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: Sicily between the mainland and Sicily. That's going to happen 76 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: at last. They've been talking about it for century turies. Yeah, 77 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,839 Speaker 1: and it's going to cost twenty four billion dollars or 78 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: something like that. But but it is likely to kind 79 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: of be classified as defense spending in order to in 80 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 1: order to help Italy kind of qualify under the new 81 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: kind of NATO requirements of needing to get their defense 82 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: defense spending up. So all of a sudden, you have 83 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 1: all of these infrastructure projects that are being kind of 84 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: pushed into defense spending categories in order just to make 85 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:46,799 Speaker 1: sure you tick that box on each end. A couple 86 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 1: of machine guns mounted on the top. 87 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 2: Well, I think the Sicilians have been wanting to secede 88 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 2: from Italy for a long while like a war isn't 89 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 2: out of the question between the Sicilians and the Italians, 90 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 2: Let's be honest. 91 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 3: Can't eliminate the threat, that's right. 92 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: So, and I just love this idea of classifying the 93 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: bridge as defense related in order to actually kind of 94 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:11,719 Speaker 1: meet those requirements set by the US President. It is 95 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: just magical anyway. That don't count that Adam Sean. 96 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 2: That was part of my That was a dramatic part 97 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 2: of my story. 98 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:22,719 Speaker 1: That was me adding and that I realized I have 99 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:26,280 Speaker 1: done myself a disservice there. But the other the well, 100 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 1: the biggest story of the week is one, really it is. 101 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 1: It is one that combines business and politics and a 102 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 1: whole bunch of other stuff. It is about working from home. 103 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: Because this week we had Victorian Premier Jainta Allen unveiling 104 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:48,359 Speaker 1: a massive plan, a massive shock of a plan to 105 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: legislate working from home two days a week and this 106 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:54,359 Speaker 1: would apply to pretty much everyone, public and private sector alike, 107 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: that if your job can possibly be done remotely. 108 00:05:57,320 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 2: That you will have to do it really. 109 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: Home two days a week. Hopes to make it law 110 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 1: next year. It's designed to support family, saying that it's 111 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: good for the economy. Unions like it. Business does not 112 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: like it a huge amount. They say it's intrusive, they 113 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,600 Speaker 1: say it's unconstitutional, that it hurts productivity, that it might 114 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 1: even seen companies relocate either to other states or even 115 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: overseas if other states follow Victoria's kind of lead on 116 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: this one and do the same thing. They say it 117 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: should be up to the business and the employee to 118 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: negotiate this, and that mandates of any kind are never 119 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: a good idea. Now, the Prime Minister did weigh in 120 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: on this through the week, saying that working from home 121 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: is something that's important, something that Australian's voted for, so 122 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 1: sound like it's got his support. This is setting us 123 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:48,720 Speaker 1: You know what this is doing, Adam, This is this 124 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 1: is setting us up, awarwing us for an epic clash 125 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: between government and business and unions and has the potential 126 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: to entie entirely change, to entirely disrupt the way that 127 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: we work and live in this country for ever. Without 128 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 1: overstating it so massive. 129 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 2: Adam, Adam, Adam, can I ask and you're judging criteria right. 130 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 2: There's melodrama, which I totally appreciate, but beating the absolute 131 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 2: bejeebers out of the story. That should actually be a 132 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 2: demerit because as a. 133 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 3: Journal go too far with Melodra. 134 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 2: Oh my word, it's a long time journalist. 135 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 3: You know. 136 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 2: It was drummed into us. Yes, make the most of 137 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 2: the story, but you don't want to beat the out of. 138 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 3: It steak and sizzle. 139 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah, I'm just pointing that out. 140 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 4: I'm I don't think I understand what you're saying. 141 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 2: You got the memo, no. 142 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 3: Go on, Michael did and feel he went far enough. 143 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: It feels like I left a few things behind. Can 144 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 1: you give your judgment because I suspect I know which 145 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 1: way it's going to go. 146 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 3: Okay, just hold on to that prediction. Write it down 147 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 3: and we'll see if you are right. Tariff and Trump 148 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 3: Week wins. 149 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: That's exactly what I was expecting, and it is largely 150 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: because of the Sicilian bridge. 151 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 2: I know that. 152 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 3: Oh no, But what a great flourish you added to it, Michael. 153 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 3: That was awesome. I had no idea, So thank you. 154 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 2: I'm all flourish. 155 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 3: You know, Sean, you said quote kicked in on friend 156 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 3: and foe are like excellent phrase. 157 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 2: So I ripped it off someone else. 158 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 4: They drummed that into you in journalism as well. 159 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 6: It's a part of it. There's another scoring criteria, pleasures. 160 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 6: But with Trump, it's like, how do you know which 161 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 6: one you are and for how long that will last? 162 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 6: It's almost impossible to tell. It's not a fixed mark 163 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 6: on whether your friend or foe or somewhere in between. 164 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 6: So to me it's spectacularly this is kicked in, and 165 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:10,439 Speaker 6: so it has happened. It has been and will remain 166 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 6: to be I think enormously disrupting on world trade and 167 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 6: the world's biggest economy. Michael, probably in another week you 168 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 6: could have won. It hasn't happened yet. But what this 169 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 6: forecast about the disruption ahead and the battle between business 170 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 6: and employer or employers and employees. Perhaps I can say 171 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 6: that way. 172 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 3: I think that is so disruptive, and I really do 173 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 3: think this is a solution for the market to work out. 174 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 3: I really, I really don't like the regulation going that far. 175 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 2: You know, the problem with her saying it and Albanezy 176 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:48,079 Speaker 2: coming out afterwards is that most businesses, not all definitely, 177 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 2: but most businesses have sort of working out the work 178 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 2: from home stuff and they're being flexible. The problem with 179 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 2: this is all of a sudden, say hey, let's legislate it, 180 00:09:57,320 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 2: and everyone saying, oh, that's our right or it's not 181 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 2: our right, and busines is up in arms, unions rubbing arms, 182 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 2: and it's kind of just actually takes the power away 183 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 2: from the business and the employee to work it out. 184 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 5: Now. 185 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,439 Speaker 2: I'm not saying every business is fair and employees or 186 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 2: anything like that, but it's a shame. 187 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 3: I think it's so disruptive as a step between employer 188 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 3: and employee. 189 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought Adam Schwab when he spoke to us 190 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:25,439 Speaker 1: during the week, he's very is very animated in the 191 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: way that he says it. But he made a really 192 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 1: good point about the fact that it should be up 193 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:31,440 Speaker 1: to the business to negotiate this kind of thing and 194 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: that you can go either way on it. But then 195 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: as soon as you start mandating things, it is it 196 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:39,559 Speaker 1: feels like an overreach. Anyway, I feel like I should 197 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: have won that, just to be clear, But we will 198 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: move on. I'm sorry. Most remarkable story did you go first? 199 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 2: Michael? 200 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: Thank you, Sean, because the most remarkable story there really 201 00:10:55,880 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: was only one contender, well for anyone in Australia, right, Sure. 202 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 2: That's what That's what you said in the previous category. 203 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 3: Yes, winning assertion here. 204 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:13,839 Speaker 1: No, I'm just trying. I'm trying to plant this. I'm 205 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:16,439 Speaker 1: being kind of it's suggestive. I'm just trying to plant 206 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: the seeds for Adam, and then that's all he can 207 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: remember is just these kettleb NBN NBNCo is partnered with 208 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: tech giant tech behemoth Amazon to completely overhaul Australia's satellite 209 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:39,960 Speaker 1: internet market next year. Project Kaiper, which is a fantastic 210 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:43,439 Speaker 1: name for a project, is going to see three thousand, 211 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: two hundred low Earth orbit satellites replace the NBN's aging 212 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: Skymaster system. It is going to compete directly with SpaceX's Starling, 213 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: which already has around seven thousand satellites. I suppose the 214 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: question here is who's going to benefit, But that is 215 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: the wrong question. The question is who isn't going to 216 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: benefit from this? 217 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:10,840 Speaker 2: Because Adam Adam. I think Adam's going to benefit. 218 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: Adam probably will indirectly, because this is all about competition. Indirectly, 219 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: of course, competition competition four syllables very important, Sean. There 220 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 1: is going to be faster, more reliable service for up 221 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 1: to three hundred thousand regional and remote customers. That is 222 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:34,560 Speaker 1: fantastic twice as fast as Starlink. So what we've got 223 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 1: here with Project Kaiper is four hundred megabits per second 224 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 1: compared to two hundred megabits per second really for Starlink. 225 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: Kind of rounding here a little bit, but at the moment, Skymaster, 226 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: the satellites that they're currently using for all of these 227 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 1: places around the country, gets like the best package that 228 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: you can get is fifty megabits per second. That might 229 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: get to one hundred men bits per second maybe once 230 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:04,959 Speaker 1: a day at its absolute best. And it even has 231 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: disclaimers on the website saying this will be just for 232 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 1: short bursts only at one hundred megabits per second. And 233 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: here we have now this new system with Amazon and 234 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: nbn CO saying that we will get to kind of 235 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: four hundred megabits per second. That's what you need to 236 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 1: work from home. That's what you need to be efficient 237 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 1: and operate in the global digital economy. Nbn says that 238 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: the upgrade is vital for education, for business, emergency services 239 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 1: and isolated areas. Connectivity is crucial in these areas. It 240 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: is a lifeline. The fact that nbn CO is partnering 241 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: essentially with a startup, albeit a startup from Amazon, so 242 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 1: it's kind of got a bit of a headstart. It's 243 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: very forward thinking. Everything about this everything about this story 244 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 1: is remarkable and it is exciting because of what it 245 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: means for Australia's future. 246 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 3: And I'm not going to over it now. 247 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 2: You aren't are obviously. I think this is a great story, right, 248 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 2: and I don't think it got enough cute week. I 249 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 2: just don't think it's remarkable though. I mean, it's it's 250 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 2: great that they are joining and there's another competitor, right, 251 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:11,439 Speaker 2: so all that's good, but it's not like remarkable, remarkable 252 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 2: like my story, because mine is remarkable. Remarkable. 253 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 3: That's a very elegant sledge. 254 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. 255 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, it feels like slightly incomplete. I feel like it 256 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 4: failed to land. 257 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 2: It's kind of it's about as incomplete as the governments 258 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 2: a day is sex limited at the moment. Really you 259 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 2: want to know about was remarking, So you need the 260 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 2: context for this story. A company called TPG Capital is 261 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 2: buying a software group in Australia called info Media. They 262 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 2: bead six hundred and fifty one million dollars. Background there 263 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 2: is ex limited. The market operator, somehow confused TPG Capital 264 00:14:54,080 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 2: with Australia's third largest telco, TPG Telecom. They ta the 265 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 2: deal under TPG Telecom. People thought all of a sudden 266 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 2: that TPG Telecom was buying Info Media. I think was 267 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 2: it four hundred million dollars off its share price within 268 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 2: moments as a result of a mistake. It wasn't TPG Telecom. 269 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 2: It was the US private equity group TPG Capital now 270 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 2: ASX Limited. The market operator isn't having a good time 271 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 2: of it for about three or four years. It's been 272 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 2: trying to upgrade or replace its Chess system. What that 273 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 2: is when you do a trade, there's a black box 274 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 2: that goes into all the stuff happens, and then you 275 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 2: get the share certificate and your money into your account 276 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 2: or out of your account. Right that black box, that's 277 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 2: the Chess system. Huge really really important to the economy. 278 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 2: It actually allows trading and inequities and securities more generally 279 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 2: to go ahead. Well, they failed to upgrade it. It's 280 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 2: already under scrutiny from assik in the Reserve Bank. It 281 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 2: is remarkable that a mistake of this magnitude could happen 282 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 2: at the best of times, let alone when the market 283 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 2: operator is under so much scrutiny from regulators. Anyway, what 284 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 2: happened was that the AX came out and said all 285 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 2: the trades in TPG Telecom that occurred after the mistake 286 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 2: or sorry that occurred following the mistake would be untraded reversed, 287 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 2: and it was all sorted out in a case of 288 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 2: fortunate or unfortunate timing. Accink the next day said it 289 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 2: was in the final stages of considering an application to 290 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 2: approve an alternative listing market to AX, so rather than 291 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 2: trading on the AX, you might be able to trade 292 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 2: on something called CBOW CBO. The US company want to 293 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 2: open an Australian market. Here. Ax's share price is down 294 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 2: about ten percent in the last couple of days. It's 295 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 2: almost big is belief that AX can do this. And 296 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 2: they said it was an internally human error. And you 297 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 2: feel sorry for the individual definitely, but it should be 298 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 2: I mean, hopefully it's humans era because surely someone's checking 299 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 2: what an individual is doing on the AX, so maybe 300 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 2: there's a few humans, And I feel sorry for the 301 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:24,160 Speaker 2: individuals definitely, but it just shouldn't happen. Absolutely remarkable. I'm 302 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 2: getting bit outrage here, do you Adam. 303 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 3: That are brilliant, both brilliant actually very difficult humans. I 304 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:37,920 Speaker 3: like the phrasing Shawn human versus humans eerror, you'd hope so. 305 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 3: And you can imagine that the AX is under a 306 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 3: lot of pressure, right, and some of that, you know 307 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 3: easy in the performance of different systems, the chess system, 308 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 3: how many years have been eight like it's coming, it's coming, 309 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 3: it's coming, it's gone, so many different things you would 310 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 3: see the conspiracy of things going wrong and how that 311 00:17:55,600 --> 00:18:00,880 Speaker 3: manifests some people under pressure, you know, terrible, terrible mistake. 312 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 3: That is why I'm going to give this one to Michael. 313 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:08,200 Speaker 2: Just because it was a terrible mistake. 314 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, but also the consequences of those As you 315 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 3: pointed out, there's a new alternative mechanism, a competitor that's 316 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:18,199 Speaker 3: potentially being reviewed to come into Australia. So so so 317 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 3: close and obviously, Sean, when you and I did the 318 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 3: bike ride there we were, you know, out in regional 319 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 3: New South Wales, and you and I directly experienced patchy 320 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:30,640 Speaker 3: internet from time to time as we tried to keep 321 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 3: you were trying to. 322 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 2: Call at the recording, as we tried to call the 323 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 2: ambulance to pick us up from somewhere tel Burke and 324 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 2: Koba Ningen help our favorite character. We met the whole 325 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 2: way through Michael and I can't remember the gentleman's name, unfortunately, 326 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:53,359 Speaker 2: Adam's laughing was the mayor of Ningen, very nice, j 327 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 2: Vi ol Chap. And we stopped at Ningen on the 328 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,400 Speaker 2: way through and he talked about, you know, the two 329 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:01,679 Speaker 2: great groups that kept the town going, one being the 330 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:03,919 Speaker 2: c w A, the Country Women's Association. Now they being 331 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,120 Speaker 2: Royal Far West, the charity we're writing for. That's good. 332 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:09,160 Speaker 2: Three days later we're back in Ningen, but we we'd 333 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 2: been riding for days, We've been eating and probably drinking. 334 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 2: It's late at night, and this guy comes up and 335 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 2: he says the same thing, and he says, two people 336 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 2: keeping out of town. And I turned to Adam said, 337 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 2: that's funny. That's what the mayor of Ningen said. Turns 338 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:32,399 Speaker 2: around and me goes, we're in Ningen, new idiot. It 339 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 2: was exactly the same same speech. And we didn't realize, well, 340 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 2: at least anyway, who are. 341 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:43,640 Speaker 3: Those mischievous two at the back of the room. 342 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 2: One thing about that bike ride, People who don't know 343 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 2: Adam don't quite appreciate how funny he is. And so 344 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:56,400 Speaker 2: I honestly was like the naughty schoolboy the whole way 345 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 2: on that ride with Adam laughing with him, like just 346 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 2: it was good fun. He comes across his e mold 347 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 2: men a judge in reality. 348 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:08,199 Speaker 3: Very straight humorous, Yeah, very straight. 349 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 2: Anyway, Sorry I lost that one, I think, did I? 350 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:11,680 Speaker 3: You did? 351 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 2: It is one? 352 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: All it means the competition is still alive. We are 353 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: going to take a very quick break and come back 354 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: with our mystery category of the week. 355 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,640 Speaker 4: Jean, it is time for our mystery story. 356 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:30,199 Speaker 1: This is a category that changes every week so that 357 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:35,719 Speaker 1: Adam can't possibly prepare for it. The Adam, one of 358 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 1: your criteria when you are judging on this show is 359 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: usually your subjective bias. Do you agree that that is 360 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:44,199 Speaker 1: one of the still there? 361 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 2: Well, I would say it's the yeah, the main category. 362 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: Right, So what were you doing a foundation, Adam with 363 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: this category? With this category here is we are disregarding 364 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 1: your subjective These are stories that appeal to our subjective bias. 365 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: Good one and Sean's yes yes, And funnily enough, mine 366 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:12,959 Speaker 1: is not about space and it is not about airlines. 367 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 1: Because I realized, actually I'm saying that really actually go 368 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,399 Speaker 1: with my subjective bias pretty much every week, Sean, you 369 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: go first. 370 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 2: My subjective bias. Well, I'm a journalist at heart. I 371 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 2: was trained through the Fairfax newspaper system. So the story 372 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 2: this week that the printed newspaper is not dead really 373 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:36,440 Speaker 2: appeal to me. The two major publishers publishers News Corp 374 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 2: and nine, which owns the old Fairfax, along with Australian 375 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 2: community media run by a gentleman called. 376 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,119 Speaker 3: What's his name again, Anthony the Cat. 377 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:50,719 Speaker 2: The Cat Anti Catalano, which we've all who we've all 378 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 2: worked with anyway, ACM, news Corp and Nine have signed 379 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 2: a deal to consolidate print sites. They'll say millions of 380 00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 2: dollars print will keep running for five years. I'm a 381 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,879 Speaker 2: bit stunned, to be honest. I'm amazed that the newspapers 382 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 2: are still operating, and they're still operating, people still read them. 383 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,920 Speaker 2: There are still some advertisers the Home Where's Guys, JB 384 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:14,200 Speaker 2: Hi Fi, Harvey Norman, they're the big ones. The Tab 385 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 2: big supporter as well, and then travel category is huge. 386 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 2: But just the fact that you know, papers like The 387 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 2: finn Review, The Australian, The Daily Telly Herald's Son Currier, Mail, Adelaide, Advertiser, 388 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 2: the Age. I say they Sitdning Morning Herald. I's sorry 389 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 2: that one in there too. The fact that they're going 390 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 2: to keep the Canberra Times, they're going to keep being printed, 391 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 2: is kind of cool, little anachronistic. I do get that, 392 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 2: and I don't really look at I get the newspapers 393 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 2: delivered Saturday, Sundays and on about the following Wednesday. I 394 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 2: take them out of the plastic and put them in 395 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 2: the recycling. I think that's dreadful. I know, I know, 396 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 2: I know an occasionally like a magazine or a quiz 397 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 2: Old use them for that. But it does amaze me 398 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 2: that people are still reading the paper within a newsroom. 399 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 2: It is amazing how important the newspaper still remains. People 400 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 2: wanting to be on the front page of the Odds 401 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,959 Speaker 2: or the front page of the finn And that surprises 402 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,400 Speaker 2: me because I actually think having one hundred and fifty 403 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 2: thousand people reading my copy online is probably more interesting. 404 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,120 Speaker 2: Having a social that's got, you know, fifty thousand likes 405 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 2: or something's more interesting. But print is still the heart 406 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,120 Speaker 2: of many of these organizations. And I don't know whether 407 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:37,679 Speaker 2: I'm happy or sad about it. I think I'm just 408 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 2: amazed Michael. 409 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 4: And long winded. 410 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:52,399 Speaker 1: Oh no, look, I'm sorry that felt unkind yep, but 411 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:53,119 Speaker 1: I'm not. 412 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 3: I'm not. 413 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:55,680 Speaker 2: I'm not backing down. 414 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 5: No. 415 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: Look, it is a good it is a good point. 416 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:02,160 Speaker 1: It is a good story. However, Sean, this is really 417 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: one probably that almost applies to both of us. 418 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 3: My story. 419 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 4: But let me tell you, Adam. 420 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:14,440 Speaker 1: The Productivity Commission has released a report estimating that AI 421 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: artificial intelligence could add more than one hundred and sixteen 422 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: billion dollars to Australia's economy over the next decade, and 423 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,119 Speaker 1: the reporters warned the government not to take a heavy 424 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 1: handed approach to regulation because it could stifle our economic potential. 425 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: All right, that is all very interesting and hugely significant 426 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 1: for the economy. 427 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 5: But but, but but one of those recommendations within this 428 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:49,880 Speaker 5: report looked at whether. 429 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 1: Current Australian copyright law is a barrier and this is 430 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: a quote, is a barrier to building and training AI models. 431 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: So they are talking here about Australian copyright law, which 432 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:07,399 Speaker 1: is arguably the gold standard law internationally that protects the 433 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: work of journalists, of artists, of musicians of authors, and 434 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: it ensures that if our work is used, then we 435 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 1: must essentially be paid because it is our work. 436 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 3: We have made it. Now. 437 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,119 Speaker 1: I have published two novels, sure, and you've published a 438 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,879 Speaker 1: nonfiction book. You've written countless stories in newspapers. Your work 439 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 1: has been kind of out there for years, all protected 440 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 1: under the Copyright Act. And one of the policy options 441 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: is proposing an amendment to the Copyright Act to include 442 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: a fair dealing exception that would cover text and data mining, 443 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,640 Speaker 1: that would allow AI would allow tech giants to use 444 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: our work to train their models for free, for nothing, 445 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 1: to get unfettered access to what we've created. I say 446 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: this is unfair. I say it's wrong. I say it 447 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:06,959 Speaker 1: borders on just plain old theft. Have had industry organizations 448 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 1: coming out this week. Who had the Journalist Union, We've 449 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 1: had the Australian Recording Industry Association, everybody coming out saying 450 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 1: this does not work. It is going to stifle creativity 451 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 1: in this country and make what is already a difficult 452 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,959 Speaker 1: industry to make a living in even harder to do. 453 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: So this is why I think, you know what, this 454 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 1: should have been the biggest story of the week and 455 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: the most remarkable story. I should have done it in 456 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,959 Speaker 1: every single category. That's how important this one is. 457 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 2: Can I just give the other side of the argument, right, 458 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 2: because I know where Adam's going to go on this, 459 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,160 Speaker 2: because this is extremely close to his heart, this one right, 460 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,199 Speaker 2: and say's mine, so I'm sure he'll come down on 461 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 2: my side. But Scott, we had Scott Farqua on in 462 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,359 Speaker 2: the last couple of weeks and he was arguing the 463 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,360 Speaker 2: exact opposite, because the gist of it is large language 464 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 2: models need to access content to be successful, and they 465 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 2: need to access all the content rather some content, and 466 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,160 Speaker 2: at the moment, larger language models, for example, if you're 467 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 2: the newspaper or the digital site is behind a paywall, 468 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,119 Speaker 2: very difficult for the large language model to access it. 469 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 2: They can access PDF versions of it, but not the 470 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:18,160 Speaker 2: actual website versions of it. And the point being, if 471 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,199 Speaker 2: you want AI to work, it's best you just have 472 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,680 Speaker 2: to accept that it needs to access all content. 473 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 1: Now, so I'm not arguing that they shouldn't be able 474 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: to access it. What I'm saying is that it should 475 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,679 Speaker 1: be paid like it shouldn't. Essentially, in that case, there 476 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 1: is almost an element of kind of resisting something that 477 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:37,400 Speaker 1: is that is. 478 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 3: Inevitable with this? 479 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, you get there. 480 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,679 Speaker 1: And that's why I think the regulation should actually be 481 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: in place to ensure that the work is not just 482 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 1: absorbed for nothing, because that is that is kind of 483 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 1: decades of work, of creative work, of life work, in 484 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:59,679 Speaker 1: many cases going into this without any economic financial recognition whatsoever. 485 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:01,640 Speaker 1: And that's where I feel like this is unfair. 486 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:03,679 Speaker 2: So what if an AI someone trains up to do 487 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 2: a job and AI takes it over tomorrow. That's like 488 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 2: a lifelong work, you know, training in work, So. 489 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,239 Speaker 3: Like a journalist or a musician, yeah, or or a 490 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 3: technical coder yeah, yeah, to. 491 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 2: Get away from the copyright people Like it's almost like 492 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:25,160 Speaker 2: that's what AI is doing. Anyway, we are running late. 493 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 3: Isn't this Isn't this a ripper of a debate, So 494 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 3: it's a draw maximum points for both. I almost shit 495 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 3: a tear at the joy I'm feeling in this story, 496 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 3: right because I think they're both linked. Right, the disruption 497 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 3: technical disruption to journalism. You know that that initialism t 498 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 3: L d R. Do you both know what that is? Yes? 499 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 3: Too long didn't read read? And so this even too 500 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 3: long didn't Read has been shortened to an initialism, right, 501 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 3: and that is I think symptomat of where we are. 502 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 3: This snacking content. Just give me the quick bites and 503 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 3: then I'll make a quick opinion and I'll like it 504 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 3: or not, and I'll move on, but without the depth 505 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 3: of understanding that comes from perhaps long form journalism or 506 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 3: deeper consideration. So I love reading the long articles. I'm 507 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 3: sure that surprises no one. So I'm very much against 508 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 3: just that very thin, that two layer deep max impression 509 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 3: of a story and forming opinion quick shout loudly and 510 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 3: move on. But the productivity commission here, I think, is 511 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 3: it's really interesting and are we going to be brave enough? Right? So, 512 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 3: musicians copyright, there's songwriters that get paid, there's recording artists 513 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 3: that get paid. Why cannot this apply to journalism? Right? 514 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 3: And it should be copyright owned and there should be 515 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 3: a financial reward for it, right. So I think this 516 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 3: has to happen. And if you even to Scott Farquhia's point, 517 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 3: you know, one of the questions one might ask is, hey, Scott, 518 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 3: you came up with his genius code caught out lassion, 519 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 3: why don't you just make that open to the internet 520 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 3: and then you'll have no value in your product, right, 521 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 3: so that there should be a royalty for intellectual capital. 522 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 3: So well played, great argument. 523 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 2: This used to be a fun shime. 524 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 3: It's like. 525 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 2: Time and we haven't even done our favorite story yet. 526 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 2: Let's do the fun stories quickly. 527 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 1: Let's go favorite story of the week. Shall I go first? 528 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 2: Sure? 529 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 3: Okay? 530 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:36,239 Speaker 1: Elon Musk, I feel like I haven't mentioned him in 531 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 1: weeks and weeks. He is overdue for a mentioned on 532 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 1: this show. And what a week to mention him, because 533 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 1: he has been awarded twenty nine billion US dollars worth 534 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 1: of Tesla shares, And it is basically just an effort 535 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 1: to keep him there, to keep him working at the 536 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: ev maker, because six months ago there was a judge 537 00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: who rejected a pay package that was going to be 538 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 1: worth fifty six billion US dollars. And it feels like 539 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 1: Musk has had one foot out the door. Basically, it's 540 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 1: pretty much threatened to leave. But Tesla has written to 541 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: shareholders announcing this new deal saying, and this is a quote, 542 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 1: retaining Elon is more important than ever before. We are 543 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: confident that this award will incentivize Elon to remain at Tesla, 544 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 1: energizing and focusing him to propel Tesla into its next 545 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 1: era of growth. The thing is he only has to 546 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: do the job for two years in order to qualify 547 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 1: for this two years, and he gets nearly thirty billion 548 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 1: US dollars worth. Analysts are saying that it will probably 549 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 1: keep him there until twenty thirty. They've described him as 550 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 1: Tesla's biggest asset, which puts a lot of pressure on 551 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: just one person. But there's a lot of pressure on 552 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: him and on Tesla more broadly, because they've got so 553 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,479 Speaker 1: much competition coming from Chinese ev makers. They've still got 554 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 1: to backlash to his politics and his former role assisting 555 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 1: the US president. We've had Tesla shares of fallen twenty 556 00:31:55,400 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: five percent this year, quarterly profit plunged to I'm going 557 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 1: to try to do the maths here, like. 558 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 3: A third. 559 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: Minus three hundred percent, a third of what it was 560 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 1: the previous year, previous court. 561 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 2: You know. 562 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 1: See, this is why I should not try and do 563 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:20,120 Speaker 1: maths on the fly. I lose all credibility in an 564 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 1: instant self sabotage. Hopefully, anyway, having the highest paid CEO 565 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 1: in history will help turn Tesla around. 566 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 4: But it's a cracker of a story. 567 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 2: This week, it is a greag of a story. Mine's 568 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 2: a quick one, right, because I think it's really it's 569 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 2: it's just a symptomatic of the times. Really. The federal 570 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 2: government's taken a fifty million dollars stake in lithium producer 571 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 2: line Town Resources. Linetown's undertaking a big capital raising. Fifty 572 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 2: million of that is coming from the government via the 573 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 2: National Reconstruction Fund Corporation. The government has previously invested money 574 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:04,880 Speaker 2: in a group called Arafura Rare Earths, but generally the 575 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:11,959 Speaker 2: government taking steaks in listed companies doesn't happen in Australia. 576 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 2: It happened recently in the US and the group called 577 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 2: MP Materials, where the Pentagon took a stake in it 578 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:21,720 Speaker 2: because they're keen to keep their hands on rare earthsp 579 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 2: Materials is the biggest rare earth producer in the US. 580 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 2: Most rare earths in the world come from China. The 581 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 2: US now Australia look like they are worried about battery 582 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 2: metals generally having to come out of China, so it's 583 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:38,680 Speaker 2: almost like a sovereign security issue. As a result, government 584 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 2: putting fifty million into this lithium producer li in Town. 585 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 2: The thing is where does it stop? Like, is this 586 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 2: the beginning of a very very slippery slope. Does it start? 587 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 2: You know where we're worried about smelters, you know, aluminium 588 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 2: smelters or lead, copper, manganese smelters. Do we start putting money? 589 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 2: Should the government start putting money into them? You know a 590 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:00,880 Speaker 2: lot of those are struggling because of high power prices 591 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 2: because what China is doing, so it's a government supporting them. 592 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 2: But this suddenly becomes industry policy, which I think is 593 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,240 Speaker 2: a really bad thing. I don't think the government should 594 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 2: be picking winners. I think the market should be picking winners. 595 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 2: Now I get that trade sorry, tariff distorts the market 596 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 2: so it becomes more difficult. But it's my story because 597 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:25,360 Speaker 2: it just really highlights how challenging it is at the moment, 598 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:30,839 Speaker 2: from tariff policy to government spending to what sectors are 599 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 2: really critical to Australia's. 600 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:34,320 Speaker 3: Energy national interest. 601 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 2: But you can take this through pretty much the whole 602 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:39,880 Speaker 2: economy and if there's an argument why the government should 603 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 2: be supporting all parts of the economy training, you know, education, health, 604 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,439 Speaker 2: all this sort of stuff. It's just made me think 605 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,439 Speaker 2: it's my favorite story because it's just made me think 606 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 2: a lot about where does government begin and where does 607 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 2: it end? 608 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:58,400 Speaker 4: Where does this story end? You promised that was going 609 00:34:58,480 --> 00:34:58,959 Speaker 4: to be quick. 610 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 2: Mine was half yours, Michael, thank you bullplop. 611 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 3: It was only bigger. 612 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 1: I derailed myself with it, with dodgy calculation. 613 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:12,800 Speaker 3: So they are both ripping stories and both degrees of awful. 614 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 3: I reckon Elon Musk. He already owns so much of Tesla. 615 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,960 Speaker 3: Why on earth do you think a bit more is 616 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,399 Speaker 3: going to make him change it? 617 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 5: Is? 618 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 3: It's a cop out in my humble opinion. 619 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 2: Do you reckon or does is he that. 620 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 3: Money? Yeah? Look, gut feel for me is it's not 621 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:40,880 Speaker 3: going to change a thing. It's just his latest. I 622 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:42,759 Speaker 3: want you to love me more and show me more 623 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:44,880 Speaker 3: money today, and what are you going to come up 624 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 3: with tomorrow? So, and government's picking winners. It's outrageous, honestly, 625 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,399 Speaker 3: I think in terms of a bad policy decision, and 626 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,359 Speaker 3: so I think both of them are degrees of bad 627 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:03,719 Speaker 3: on this one the scale of Michael's one, but it's 628 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 3: very narrow, very narrow victory. 629 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 1: I appreciated the melodrama in the judgment just then, like 630 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 1: we had and we had big statement after big statement 631 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:15,880 Speaker 1: there from Adam Lane, Dare. 632 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,280 Speaker 2: I say the metal drama was better than the judgment itself? 633 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:21,480 Speaker 3: That would be fair. 634 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:23,480 Speaker 2: I believe you've won, Michael. 635 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:24,440 Speaker 3: I believe so. 636 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:26,799 Speaker 1: I believe it's two point five to one point five, 637 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:31,560 Speaker 1: which which is a resounding landslide. Victor, Adam, what was 638 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,480 Speaker 1: the points out of our potential one hundred points each? 639 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 3: I'm going to take you through it in the beginning. 640 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:41,759 Speaker 3: First one, Sean was ahead, right then Michael came back, 641 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,600 Speaker 3: and you were even at the halfway mark, even even 642 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:50,359 Speaker 3: at three stories in so the mystery story. But by 643 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 3: one point, Michael Thompson, you have taken it with your 644 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:58,440 Speaker 3: highest score ever, ninety sixty five. 645 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:02,400 Speaker 2: Wow, Oh, can I now I'm trying. It was it 646 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 2: Tim Burrows that said I'm sick of no, It. 647 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:07,720 Speaker 1: Was the cook Stephen Colk. 648 00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:12,520 Speaker 2: He was complimenting on Dian Massina's judging because he was saying, 649 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:14,960 Speaker 2: you know, she was happy to give zero out of 650 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:16,960 Speaker 2: twenty five as opposed to twenty two to twenty three. 651 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 3: Yeah. 652 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:22,359 Speaker 2: Clearly, Adam, you have averaged for Michael twenty four out 653 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,200 Speaker 2: of twenty five for each of his stories, and you 654 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:29,719 Speaker 2: have just totally discredit discredited yourself as a judge. 655 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,960 Speaker 1: Well, my favorite part about Stephen Cooculis, our resident economist, 656 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:36,719 Speaker 1: saying this was that he said, I'm sick of these 657 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:42,920 Speaker 1: judges giving near perfect scores all the time. Like these judges, judge, 658 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,279 Speaker 1: give me this, Judge, Adam Waite, call it out. 659 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,520 Speaker 2: I think the kok wants to come back on and judge, 660 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:53,919 Speaker 2: I think that's we might say, good sword. 661 00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:58,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, okay, good good competition, excellent results. Thank 662 00:37:58,200 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 1: you very much, Adam's stories, thank you. 663 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:02,560 Speaker 2: Thank you, Sean, Thanks Adam, Thanks Michael. 664 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:04,719 Speaker 1: Make sure you following the podcast, and please join us 665 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:08,200 Speaker 1: online on LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook and x and head 666 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 1: along to Fearangreed dot com dot au and sign up 667 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,160 Speaker 1: for our free daily newsletter. I'm Michael Thompson. And that 668 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,120 Speaker 1: was Fear and Greed. Have a great weekend.