WEBVTT - The Downfall of MAFS: Meet The Puppet Master (Part 1) 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:03.720 Welcome to the first episode of the Downfall of Married 0:00:03.720 --> 0:00:07.000 at First Sight Australia, an investigation by the Math Funny 0:00:07.040 --> 0:00:11.720 podcast hosted by me Joshua Fox trigger Oning. This investigation 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:15.800 will cover topics such as anxiety, depression, domestic violence, misogyny, 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:19.720 homophobia and suicidal ideation. What you're about to hear will 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:23.440 shock you, infuriate you, and upset you as I revealed 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:27.080 the outrageous truth behind the biggest show in this country. 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:30.800 Just reading up on this new television show, Married. 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:31.160 At First Sight. 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:33.520 Married at First Sight, What a great show it's been 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:35.480 over the last couple of months on Channel. 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:37.400 Nine, Australia's biggest TV blockbuster. 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:39.640 This season was the best ever and I don't know 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:40.879 if they'll be able to top it. 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:44.800 From negligence at the highest level, repeated failures in duty 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:48.000 of care, the lack of background checks, cast members being 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:50.839 pushed to the point of wanting to end their own lives, 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:53.840 the enabling of domestic violence, etc, Etc. 0:00:54.280 --> 0:00:54.560 Etc. 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:58.920 Now, I was eagerly awaiting Sunday nights all weekend to 0:00:59.000 --> 0:01:00.000 watch Maths. 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:02.600 Last night on Maths every season, you go, it can't 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:05.080 get more drama, it can't get bigger and then it does, 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:07.880 and I say the true award goes to the producers 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:08.679 for creating that. 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:11.479 Every year, cast members of this show always come forward 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:14.240 blaming their edit, blaming the producers, and trying to share 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:16.080 their truth and just defend themselves. 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:19.000 The show is edited, and main thing with my eduit 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:22.959 was we all know that you only see one percent. 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:24.640 Almost questions who you are? 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:25.360 You look in the mirror? 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:26.319 Is that the real me? 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:29.600 And also every year, us the fans of this show, 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:33.720 we just instantly roll our eyes, thinking, here we go again, 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:36.160 and we'll comment things like, well, you said what you 0:01:36.200 --> 0:01:38.440 said and no one made you do what you did. 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:41.080 You can't edit your bad behavior. You can't edit what 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:43.040 came out of your mouth. And it's like, here you 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:44.440 can it, and they're really good at it. 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:48.640 And we immediately disregard these rode posts and interviews from 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:51.800 whoever has become the latest victim of the show, because 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:54.440 we have whatever is just unfolded on TV in our 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:56.520 minds as we make those instant judgments. 0:01:56.920 --> 0:02:00.160 How do you react when your public enemy number one? 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:02.640 Now, yeah, look, if we're being honest, I've taken absolute 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:06.760 beating plus given how fast this show moves, how relentless 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:09.320 the twenty four to seven news cycle is, and how 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:11.799 every hour something new and something more. 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:14.800 Shocking takes the spotlight and steals our attention. We forget 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:18.000 these isolated incidents and interviews and we just move on. 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:20.880 But when you compile what every cast member has said 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:24.720 across every season for nearly ten years now, it isn't 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:27.959 quite easy to just disregard that. I've spent weeks reading 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:31.200 hundreds of articles and interviews, and I've listened to hour 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:35.000 after hour of podcasts with cast members. I've spoken to 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:40.160 participant after participant after participant, and well, one person claiming something. 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:41.640 Against production is an accusation. 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:44.720 Two people making the same claim could be seen as 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:48.760 a coincidence. But an endless stream of people all sharing 0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:51.959 similar horror stories across an almost ten year period, well, 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:54.080 to me, that's a pattern. 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:56.000 That being said, in this. 0:02:56.000 --> 0:02:58.839 Series, I won't be focused on specific participants and their 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:01.560 individual issues. I'll be focusing on the show as a 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:04.440 whole and the people who pull the strings behind the scenes. 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:07.520 Those people are now the main characters they were always 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:11.239 destined to become, and the biggest star amongst them. Former 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:15.679 executive producer and current director of Content Tara McWilliams. 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:20.600 My first impressions of Tara were pretty good. I'd met 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:22.560 her on a zoom chat, had a chat with her. 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:26.000 Seemed like she was really nice and very open about 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:27.040 the experiment. 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:30.800 When you meet her, you want her on your good side, 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:33.600 like you want to impress her. It's just like something 0:03:33.639 --> 0:03:35.440 about the way that she carries herself like that. 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:38.720 Then meeting her in person, I guess I really did 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:40.200 believe her that everything. 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:40.560 Was going to be good. 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:43.800 Tara single handedly made Married at First Sight the monster 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:46.360 we all know it as today, and anyone who's worked 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:49.080 with Tara has their own way to describe her pursuit 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:49.600 to the top. 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:51.560 Ruthless, that woman. 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:54.200 You know that telling her no is going to be 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:55.640 one of the worst things that you've ever done in 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:56.080 your life. 0:03:56.400 --> 0:03:59.360 The only person you ever hear in this whole process 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:00.000 is Tara. 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:03.320 She gives this vibe that if you tell her no, 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:05.960 She's going to make your life a living hell. 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:08.800 Tara took Married at First Sight to such new heights 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:12.360 that the show's newfound level of success was credited for 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:17.039 nine's four billion dollar merger with Fairfax Media in twenty eighteen. 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:20.240 She would scream at you she would manipulate it. 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:23.880 I've heard Tara say, I don't care if you're happy. 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:27.360 We just need your story to evolve. You're here, you've 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:28.280 signed a contract. 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:29.440 Your ass is mine. 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:32.719 I've been told that my ass belongs to her so 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:33.719 many times. 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:36.719 A quick Google search of Tara will bring up articles 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:40.520 calling her a mastermind from the most powerful woman in television, 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:44.000 or because of how her work and what she's achieved 0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:46.560 led to that four billion dollar merger. 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:50.800 Can you deal would bring together television, radio, print, online 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:52.400 and streaming on demand. 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:54.839 You know, we'll certainly be reaching more than half of 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:56.039 Australia every day. 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:57.359 This is good for the public. 0:04:57.760 --> 0:04:59.960 But at what cost did that come up? 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:04.520 Making money from someone's misery to their personal mental demise. 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:07.000 I don't think I could do that on. 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:11.760 A six foot five hundred kilo professional fighting athlete, and 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:14.520 even that woman scares me. I've got sweaty palms just 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:18.160 thinking about it. When this eventualates and evolves, I guarantee 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:20.600 you my fine will be ringing and she'll be on 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:23.240 the other end of it saying I'm so disappointed. 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:28.120 Now, before I really deep dive into Tara, how she 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:30.880 operates and the extremes she has to go to in 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:33.600 order to ensure that every episode of Married at First 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:37.560 Site continues to generate million after million after million. 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:40.240 Let's take things back to the very start. 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:42.839 Married at First Site first launched in two thousand and 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:45.920 first seen in Denmark, and it quickly became a global 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:50.000 franchise with spinoffs in Sweden, the Netherlands, the UK, America 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:53.799 and Australia, with our first season launching here in twenty 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:57.360 fifteen on Channel nine. That first season had four couples, 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:00.480 it was only six episodes long, and it was less 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:03.640 car crash reality show and more Fly on the World documentary. 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:04.720 Take a listen to this. 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:09.720 I am looking for someone to settle down. 0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:12.840 With roughly the same age as myself, someone who makes 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:15.840 your heart beat three times faster than it ordinarily should. 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:17.960 I've always wanted to get married. 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:24.840 Eight Aussie singles are set to tie the knots. There's 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:30.720 just one catch. They'll meet for the very first time. 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:34.200 On their wedding day. 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:38.800 But then over time, that wholesome premise and approach has 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:52.440 morphed into this right And if you're wondering how that happened, 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:56.080 that's the Tara effect, which I will get to. But 0:06:56.200 --> 0:07:00.760 before that, we must also ask why that happened. Well, well, us, 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:04.280 the consumers, we're kind of responsible. Since Married at First 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:07.560 Sight launched in Australia in twenty fifteen, how we watch 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:10.920 TV has changed, how we consume content has changed, and 0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:14.520 while society has changed, our attention spans have become shorter. 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:18.080 Short form content on social media has taken over, and 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:20.880 seventy five percent of people now admit to scrolling on 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:24.920 their phones while watching the TV, which means traditional TV 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:28.360 networks have had to continually go to new extremes just 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:31.280 to compete and also to try and keep people engaged, 0:07:31.520 --> 0:07:35.440 which is something that neuroscientist Andrew Huberman has talked about previously. 0:07:35.640 --> 0:07:38.120 When we first get on social media after a war, 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:40.600 for the first time, or after a long period of time, 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:43.840 the amount of dopamine that's released, we think is quite substantial. 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:47.080 The dopamine quickly wanes and then you find that you're 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:49.800 just sort and we've all been there. You're scrolling like, 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:51.760 why am I doing this? This isn't that interesting? That 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:55.440 isn't this isn't that interesting? Now, the algorithms that they've 0:07:55.480 --> 0:08:00.960 incorporated function on the most powerful way to keep people 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:03.840 doing a behavior or an animal for that matter, is 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:08.160 intermittent random reward or random intermittent reward that you don't 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:08.720 know when you're. 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:09.440 Gonna hit the jackpot. 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:11.840 So you're scrolling your going and then you see something 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:16.280 a riot or a person that is jump based, jumping 0:08:16.320 --> 0:08:19.400 off of building, and then what happens is you start 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:23.400 getting the system working for that next dopamine hit that 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:25.320 you don't know when it's gonna come. It's just like gambling. 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:28.160 If we were to look at ourselves through the lens 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:30.960 of an experiment like we would an animal experiment, we 0:08:31.080 --> 0:08:34.040 think that animal is sick. If you saw an animal 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:36.839 digging in the corner, looking looking, looking, looking for a bone, 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:40.319 the dog is looking looking, looking, looking, looking, looking, looking, looking, 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:42.040 you'd think that's really sad. 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:44.560 That's us Getting someone to sit in front of that 0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:48.199 TV for an hour is no longer enough. TV networks 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:51.160 are no longer just up against each other. They're competing 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:54.760 with our news feeds, declining attention spans, and I personally 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:59.600 curated algorithms, which means the reality of a reality show is. 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:00.760 Also longer enough. 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:04.120 Producers can't rely on having one big moment each episode 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:07.199 and giving us one big dopamine hit. They almost need 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:10.040 to give us one hit in every ad break. Alongside that, 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:12.840 the bosses of these shows also need to ensure that 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:16.199 each of those spikes doesn't just captivate us, but compels 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:18.600 us to them want to engage with it on social media, 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:21.000 share it to our followers, talk about it, and work 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:23.360 the next day. They need to make sure that we 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:26.680 cannot escape what they are creating, which is why in 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:31.559 twenty sixteen, endemill Shine Australia, who create Married at First Sight, 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:35.280 brought in Tara McWilliams as the show's new executive producer, 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:39.520 and in no time at all, Tara supersized the wholesome 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:42.439 format we were all now familiar with, and she introduced 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:47.199 sex scandals, cheating storylines, and weekly dinner parties full of drama. 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:48.440 Pregnancy obsession. 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:51.719 Isn't Married at First Sight Australia and in two episodes 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:54.079 turns into three episodes, just. 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:56.920 The way that it's filmed, the way they it's edited. 0:09:57.080 --> 0:09:59.680 The TV show I'm currently watching is Buried at First 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:00.559 Sight Australia. 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:02.240 A friend of mine sent me like a couple of 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:05.360 episodes I've Married at First Sight Australia and those. 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:08.320 It's intense, man, it's a vibe. 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:11.760 But how did Tara ensure that each scene went to 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:14.520 such an extreme that it gives the dopamine hit our 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:16.720 brains and our trains to want more and more of 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:20.160 And not just that, but how did Tara, with her 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:23.640 successes Molly and Alex by her side, then increase this 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:26.760 year on year despite the fact that in real life 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:29.079 and the fact this was meant to be reality TV 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:32.720 reflecting the lives of these real people just doesn't have 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:36.400 those constant spikes of drama. Here's someone for Mozi from 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:38.480 season nine answering that very question. 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:41.480 Yeah, so I was on Maths like three years ago 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:44.439 and I remember this dinner party like it was yesterday. 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:46.200 I would be like, this has actually been amazing. No 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:48.840 one screamed, no one's cried, no one smashed anything, like 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:52.640 it's fine. The head producer comes out and she goes, 0:10:53.200 --> 0:10:54.600 how are you guys going? And I'm like, oh, we're 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:57.160 having a great time, Like this is awesome. Well I'm bored, 0:10:57.480 --> 0:10:59.400 and Australia is going to be bored, Like what do 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:00.880 you think you guys are here to do? We're here 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:02.719 to make TV and this is boring and you guys 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:05.199 are not leaving until something exciting happens, and. 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:07.560 If you don't, then deliver the drama that Tara wants. 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:10.960 Michelle Curen from season seven claims that she has a 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:14.160 file full of secrets on each cast member and she 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:15.440 isn't afraid to use it. 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:17.959 You know, she already knows what's going to push your buttons, 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:20.640 because you've spoken to the psych you've spoken to the doctor, 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:24.680 you've spoken to the babysitter, So she already knows what 0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:29.120 is getting fed back to them. So she knows what 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:31.520 buttons to push and what's going to cause a reaction. 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:36.719 So yeah, she's the puppet master and where the puppets. 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:40.679 Like I was like vomiting nearly every like with nervousness, 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:45.760 before every commitment ceremony, before every dinner party, like I 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:49.520 was there, like physically vomiting, like just from nerves. 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:52.480 In an interview with Get Real Entertainment on YouTube after 0:11:52.520 --> 0:11:56.440 his season finished filming in late twenty nineteen, Michelle's co 0:11:56.600 --> 0:12:00.280 star David Cannon elaborated on this further. This just and 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:02.800 go him and his co stars fund working with Tara. 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:05.319 She would scream at you, she would scream at you. 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:10.280 She would she would manipulate you. She would talk about 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:14.640 turn around and talk and say that we you know, 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:17.080 this is what you signed up for. I believe Jonathan 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:22.040 was was confronted by Tara and he was told to 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:25.679 have a go at other cast members, and he didn't 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:28.120 want to do it, and he ended up having a 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:35.800 small episode of emotional trauma. She's very well practiced at 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:39.240 at making you feel like you're the one that's doing 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:42.240 everything wrong. It's very well practiced and making us feel 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:47.120 like we're the bad guys, very well practiced. That She's 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:48.760 obviously seven seasons, isn't. 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:51.600 It Going into detail about just how dark things got 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:55.640 for her during filming. Michelle explained in her twenty nineteen 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:59.480 interview with Get Real Entertainment that she even contemplated ending 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:02.119 her own life just to escape the experiments. 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:03.760 Like when it got to the point where I just 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:06.480 I couldn't cope anymore, and I said, look, if you 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:08.480 want me to do this, like I just can't do it. 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:12.440 Like I wanted to actually physically jump off the balcony. 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:14.760 And then they said, oh no, so they locked the balcony. 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:15.440 I said, okay, I'll. 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:19.200 Just you wanted to physically jump off the really really 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:20.840 had suicidal thoughts. 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:21.440 Yeah I did. 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:25.560 I really did. It's not even like not even pretend thoughts. 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:27.840 It's like, I just this is an easy way out 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:30.240 at the time, you thought that was your best option 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:31.040 to get out? 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:32.920 Did you think I need to reach out to somebody? 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:33.880 And I did. 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:34.679 I did ask. 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:38.800 I asked for help. So I went to see a 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:42.200 doctor in Sydney who, like I spoke to at length 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:45.360 about the whole process and what was going on and 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:49.400 if she could help me like just set on my nerves. 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:55.640 And then I also spoke to their doctor because I 0:13:55.720 --> 0:14:00.120 needed some value and more medication because I just couldn't cope. 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:03.720 And so yeah, he gave me some medication so I 0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:07.080 would be a little bit calmer and maybe not vomit 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:11.800 every three seconds. But yeah, it was like very hard. 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:13.240 But how bad did things get? 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:16.400 Oh, it gets so bad that you just want to 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:20.040 end the whole thing, like you are willing to commit 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:24.240 suicide or like jump off the balcony to get out. 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:26.880 In an email I sent on Wednesday, I asked Channel 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:29.560 nine if they'd like to comment on this directly, as 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:31.280 well as if they'd like to comment on so many 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:33.720 other claims I've included in this podcast, and I have 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:37.040 had no reply, but for the sake of journalistic fairness, 0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:39.880 Nine have previously shared this statement in regards to the 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:42.840 mental health of the cast members. Nine and Animals Shine 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:45.120 take their obligations in respect to the health and well 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:48.840 being of the participants of this program extremely seriously. All 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:52.400 participants have access to the show psychologists and welfare resources 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:55.440 during filming, during broadcast, and once the program has ended. 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:58.760 Nine also have an additional service for the participants, should 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:02.760 they like or need further individual and confidential psychological support. 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:07.280 This service gives participants access to clinics to support those 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:10.560 involved in the program in relation to their experiences. This 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:13.480 service is available to our participants for as long as. 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:16.880 They need it. It does not end. As shocking as 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:17.560 that is to hear. 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:20.680 I assume you are now saying, well, why didn't Michelle 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:23.160 just leave? Why won't any of the cash just quit 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:27.640 when things reach that point? And unfortunately that isn't quite 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:30.880 as easy as it sounds. I've spoken to so many 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:33.800 different cast members from so many different seasons over the years, 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:36.480 and all of them pretty much tell me that Tara 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:38.960 uses the same threat to them if they ever say 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:39.880 they want to quit. 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:42.720 As Michelle explains here, I wants to leave. 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:46.480 So many times, and you can't. You just aren't until 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:51.920 your story is told. Unless your value has diminished, then 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:57.240 you do not leave. You leave when when like you're boring, 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:00.520 or when you're like like when you have nothing else 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:03.280 to offer. You know, I had a few girlfriends that 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:06.800 I could call and speak to who had said, Michelle, 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:09.280 this place is killing you. You need to get out, 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:11.560 you need to get out. I'm just like, I've got 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:13.560 a plan with Steve. I've got a plan with Steve. 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:15.200 You know we're going to leave. We're gonna leave it 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:19.280 the next one, and that would always come unfoiled, like 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:24.440 some way, like we didn't get out. If you've worked 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:27.640 in your life and you've established something to make yourself 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:31.080 like and something for your children, then they use that, 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:34.160 you know, against you, so that you know, you could 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:36.160 lose your job, you could use your house, you could 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:40.040 lose all your property, all your assets, because you've got assets. 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:42.720 If you don't, then what have you got to lose. 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:45.520 You've got to lose your dignity, your pride, everything else. 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:49.120 So not only going to lose that because you've also worked, 0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:52.200 you're gonna lose all the stuff that you've hoped to 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:53.080 leave to your children. 0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:55.480 The line about if you do leave, will ruin your 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:59.840 reputation is one that Michelle's costar Poppy Jennings says terrified 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:01.200 her when she made it. 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:03.320 Claire, from the very start that she wanted out. 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:06.320 You are told things like as Dred's gonna hate you. 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:11.640 I was freaking scared, scared of being so hated if 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:14.200 I didn't, you know, play to this. 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:15.840 Part. 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:22.040 I was pulled up a couple of days into the 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:28.959 honeymoon and basically told you're the next Inness, You're treating 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:33.200 him really badly. Just a whole lot of stuff that 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:35.600 absolutely petrified me. 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:39.000 Earlier this week season eight, groom Brace told me that 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:41.160 this fret wasn't just used if you wanted to quit. 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:43.520 It was also rolled out if you said you didn't 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:46.040 want to take part in a certain task for whatever reason. 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:48.399 So it turned for me when we had a task 0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:53.200 that involved writing a feedback letter for another couple in 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:56.520 the experiment, and basically we've been asked to write a 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:59.280 letter to Rebecca and Jake, and there was no secret 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:02.639 that listening, I had a clear dislike and lack of 0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:06.240 respect for Rebecca due to her behavior towards us prior 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:08.520 to being asked to do the task. We had no 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:10.680 issue with Jake. We thought Jake was a good bloke, 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:12.639 but we just didn't think it was gonna beneficial for 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:15.119 us to write I let her or give any feedback 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:20.280 to Rebecca and Jake on their relationship. Anyway, long story short, 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:22.720 our couple's produced. I tried to convince this for about 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:24.840 half an hour to write it. I refused, and then 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:27.399 she dragged me outside of our room, had a bit 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:29.240 of a gulp if not wanting to do the task, 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:33.120 and then basically broke down in tears and then stormed 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:35.280 off from our room because I said I wouldn't do it. 0:18:35.880 --> 0:18:39.280 Fifteen minutes later, she came back with a phone and said, 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:40.919 Tara's on the phone and she wants to talk to me. 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:43.520 So I spoked her for about five minutes, and the 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:46.240 conversation ended by Tara saying to me that if I 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:50.080 don't participate in the feedback task, that she would make 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:52.120 me look like the worst human being in the country, 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:55.400 and that she will make sure that when the show 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:57.679 is put together that no one will like me and 0:18:57.880 --> 0:19:01.840 essentially serious pender as didn't. I guess she stuck to 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:03.359 a word because we didn't want to do the task, 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:06.640 which is the funny thing was eventually they sent another 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:10.159 producer to our room, from a different couple, and we said, okay, 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:12.879 we'll do the task and listen, I agree, just to 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:14.720 fake it and write nice things about them, which we 0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:17.560 did and that's how it was shown on the TV. 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:21.720 But yeah, I guess Tara just went through with her 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:24.240 I guess promise of making me look like the worst 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:26.439 human of the country at the time. And yeah, that 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:29.439 was literally one of many examples I could give. But 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:31.960 that was the first time I thought that Tara definitely 0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:33.560 didn't have our best interest at heart. 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:36.320 Now, David, Michelle, Poppy and Bryce, we're all on the 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:39.480 show a long time ago now, and since then, Tara 0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:43.080 has been promoted from executive producer to a production company 0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:45.919 and then We'll Shine Australia's director of content and in 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:50.840 twenty twenty two, Tara's successors, Molly Harwood and Alex Spurway 0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:54.679 then took the reins as co executive producers. And although 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:57.240 Tara's promotion meant she still oversees the show as a 0:19:57.240 --> 0:20:00.560 whole and is across everything that's happening. It also meant 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:04.199 she was no longer their day to day so maybe, 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:08.080 just maybe things started to get better. I recently asked 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:10.680