WEBVTT - Dating Hamish McLaren: Australia's Most Notorious Con Man 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:09.479 Oh, strap in, That's all I can say. Strap in 0:00:10.000 --> 0:00:14.600 because this is a doozy. This is an episode you 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:19.160 will not be able to pause, or get out of 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:25.040 the car or start doing something else. Tracy Hall one 0:00:25.079 --> 0:00:29.440 of the last actual victim of Hamish McLaren and he 0:00:30.640 --> 0:00:34.080 is the what do you call the source of a 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:40.000 podcast called who the Hell is Hamish? And it was 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:43.760 a huge podcast, like people were sending it to each other. 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:46.280 Listen to this, my god, this is Australian guys. 0:00:46.320 --> 0:00:47.240 Happened in Australia. 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:52.680 Tracy is in that podcast. But she's now doing her 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:56.120 own press tour because she's written a book about herself 0:00:56.160 --> 0:00:59.280 and her part. You will still probably want to buy 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:02.520 the bookcase I do. I want to know more about 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:06.760 this incredible woman, because she's not just the victim that 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:09.720 you think is the victim. I mean, no one is 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:12.960 the victim. But you think scammers, You think old people 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:15.200 on the phones, you know, who still have landlines like 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:19.319 you know, and media. Tracy touches on this media used 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:22.039 to make us think that way. You know, so many 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:25.040 people are being scammed these days in so many different ways. 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:28.319 The media has changed, and thank god it has. She 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:29.280 mentions that as well. 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:31.000 You will. 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:35.400 I think really love the questions that I ask because 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:39.440 she answers the things that I wanted to know. So 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:41.160 I asked her the things that I wanted to know 0:01:41.200 --> 0:01:43.200 that I know you want to know as well. My 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:47.080 producer was the same, if we want to know these things, 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:50.240 you all want to know these things too, So please 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:50.720 enjoy it. 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:52.080 Let me know what you think. 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:56.800 Give her a follow on Instagram. Tracy Hall in the 0:01:56.840 --> 0:01:59.280 show notes, we will have a link to her socials 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:03.520 or her book by the book, Why wouldn't you support 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:04.680 this beautiful person? 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:10.639 Here's Tracy Hall. Well, this is such an interesting story. 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:14.920 Like I just watched the documentary because I have a 0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:18.680 podcast and I do two EPs a week. I don't 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:22.160 listen to podcasts a lot because it's work, right, So 0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:27.160 I am a more of a visual gal. And my 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:31.400 best friend, she is a podcast queen, and this was 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:34.000 one she really wanted me to listen to. 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:36.320 Who the Hell is Hamish? 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:38.960 And I did start it, and I must say it 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:41.720 was quite interesting, but like I said, I'm not that 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:45.400 into podcasts. So I was so excited when I saw 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:48.640 that Channel seven had done a documentary and you were 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:52.160 in it. So I want to start at the start, 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:56.600 and the documentary is about a man called Hamish McLaren. 0:02:57.400 --> 0:02:59.480 You were his last victim. 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:02.000 Also just written a book which we're going to talk 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:05.600 about later, but let's start at the beginning. Here's a 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:09.240 con man and he swindled people out of money. You 0:03:09.320 --> 0:03:12.480 were his last victim. When did you meet him? So? 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:14.920 I met a man by the name of Max Devita 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:18.119 in early twenty sixteen on a dating app. I'd been 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:21.440 separated from my husband for about a year and I 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:24.000 thought I was ready to get back into the dating scene, 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:28.320 and you know, I wanted to meet someone to spend 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:31.400 some time with to you know, you know, someone that 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:33.440 had the same sort of ideas about life as me, 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:36.600 the same values and morals and like doing the same 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:40.560 things as me. And it was slim pickings, to be honest. 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:43.640 It was quite demoralizing in a lot of ways. And 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:47.440 of course, when you know, Max Devita showed up and 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:51.160 he had you know, a megawatt smile and National Geographic 0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:55.640 blue eyes and great chat, great banter. We connected really 0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:59.120 quickly and we built a relationship over the next sixteen months. 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:02.640 It was based on shared values and liking the same 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:06.680 things we loved the ocean, we loved running, and we 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:09.800 just sort of hung out and he told me he 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:13.280 was a chief financial officer for a family office in Sydney, 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:15.800 and I knew a little bit about what that was. 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:19.279 And then over the you know, over the next sixteen months, 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:22.840 we just sort of built built our relationship and it 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:25.880 was very you know, close, a very intimate relationship. 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:27.320 We were talking about our future. 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:31.880 The weekend before he was arrested, we were looking at 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:35.400 properties in Byron Bay, thinking about, you know, our what 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:37.400 the next ten years of our life might look like. 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:40.239 And yes, so it was a pretty a pretty deep 0:04:40.360 --> 0:04:44.280 relationship that by that point. And it was in July 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:48.599 twenty seventeen. I woke up one morning to a crime 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:52.520 stop his video online of a man being arrested outside 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:55.520 of his apartment in Bondai for swindling people out of 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:59.680 millions of dollars, and his face was blurred out. But 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:01.880 you know, there was not a shadow of a doubt 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:05.120 that that was my boyfriend, Max Devita. Except it wasn't 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:07.000 Max Devita, it was Hey Mish McClaren. 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:10.719 So you got a phone call from or did you 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:13.720 call the police to say that's my boyfriend? 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:16.599 What had actually happened was we'd just gotten back from 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:19.880 Byron Bay and I hadn't heard from him in about 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:25.200 twenty four hours, which was very, very unusual, and I 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:28.120 ended up after a very sleepless night and scouring the 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:30.760 internet looking for friends and family to connect with to 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:33.520 try and find out if something had happened. I ended 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:36.800 up very early the next morning calling Bondi Police and 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:39.240 asking them to do a wellness check on him, yep, 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:42.920 because I just knew something was wrong, and they were 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:45.840 off doing a wellness check on him, and a girlfriend 0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:49.600 of mine sent me the link to the video and 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:51.719 that is when I found out that he'd been arrested. 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:54.239 So that's obviously why he wasn't answering my calls. 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:56.000 So that was the crime Stop A video. 0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:57.400 That was the crime Stop A video. 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:00.120 And I called back Bondi Police and I said, well, 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:01.640 you don't need to do a one's check on him 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:06.080 because he's not dead. He's been arrested. And they said, yes, 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:08.880 we know that now, but the name of the person 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:12.560 that you gave us, the address and his age, everything 0:06:12.600 --> 0:06:14.520 you gave us about that man is not the man 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:17.520 that lives there. And I said, well, who is it 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:20.960 you know who who, like, who is this man? And 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:22.880 they said, we can't tell. You need to contact the 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:25.839 detectives working on the case. And that's when I spoke 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:31.040 to the head detective who had arrested him. And then 0:06:31.240 --> 0:06:34.520 you know, the dealings with the police started at that point. 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:37.000 So I went up and spent pretty much the next 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:40.159 three weeks with the police unraveling the previous eighteen months 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:40.719 of my life. 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:46.479 Tracy, can I just first, I'm so sorry that this 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:50.320 has happened to you, like to anyone, but like, I'm 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:53.440 looking at a human, a beautiful woman who you know, 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:55.880 we were just talking off air quickly about your daughter, 0:06:55.920 --> 0:07:00.359 and so I'm assuming he knew your daughter, you're a 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:01.159 single mom. 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:04.760 Yes, of course, I mean after nearly eighteen months, he 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:09.520 definitely knew her. The relationship built quite slowly because I 0:07:09.560 --> 0:07:13.160 didn't really want to infuse a new person in my life. 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:14.280 With most women died. 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:18.040 Yep, you have to learn, you have to earn that trust, 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:20.480 don't you, for a partner before you bring a child in, 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:24.320 which is the most appropriate way to do a relationship 0:07:24.520 --> 0:07:25.320 I think in person. 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:28.520 And that would have been absolutely huge for you. 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:30.560 Yeah, it was, and it took a long time for 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:34.280 me to introduce her. So the time that we spent together, 0:07:34.800 --> 0:07:37.000 I guess it's fair to say, was fairly limited because 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:40.200 I have majority care of my daughter, so I would 0:07:40.200 --> 0:07:43.880 see him when she was with her dad. But over 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:46.240 you know, eighteen months, that is a long time to 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:48.560 go out with somebody, And of course she would hear 0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:51.440 him on the phone a lot because we would talk 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:53.840 all the time, and they built a bit of a 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:56.040 relationship through that, and then by kind of you know, 0:07:56.160 --> 0:08:00.240 the moving into over a year after we met and 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:03.160 started going out, we took family holidays up to Byron Babe. 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:05.480 My mom came along, like my mom came and stayed 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:10.040 with us. He met my family, So yeah, they did 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:14.600 have a relationship in the end, but it was mostly 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:18.560 it was a few holidays and then you know, the 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:20.640 rest of the time we spent together was religious when 0:08:21.280 --> 0:08:25.040 I had that space, you know, on my own. So 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:30.160 it was funny actually, Eve because when Hamis she was 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:36.040 arrested and everything just fell apart around me. I made 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:38.520 a decision really early on that there'd be no tears 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:41.920 at the dinner table, okay, and that I wouldn't discuss 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:44.040 it with her. She was really young at the time, 0:08:44.080 --> 0:08:46.240 she was like six or six and a half or something, 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:50.520 and it's very hard to explain a non compliant superinnuation 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:53.320 fund and a con man who swindled people out of 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:55.880 millions of dollars to a six year old. And I 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:58.640 didn't want to worry her and life had to go on, 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:01.440 you know, I didn't want for all the part and 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:04.000 you know, it's just me at home. 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:06.680 With her, so I just had to keep her ghost. 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:10.080 Yeah, and a blessing in a sense because that kept 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:13.440 me going a lot of the time. But you know, 0:09:14.400 --> 0:09:16.680 and I don't know if it was the right decision, 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:20.560 but it's kind of funny now in retrospect because we. 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:21.040 Just carried on. 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:22.800 There were no tears at the dinner table. And it 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:25.640 wasn't until about eight or nine months after he'd been 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:28.520 arrested that we were in the bathroom one night, you know, 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:32.160 doing the nightly shower routine, and she says to me, O, Mum, 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:36.319 we haven't heard from Max in a while, and I. 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:37.160 Just had a while. 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:40.880 I'm like, oh, yeah, he's just been really busy. Rabe 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:44.000 like it's so good. I think he's just been super busy. 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:46.520 And she's like okay, and she moved on. And that's 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:50.040 the joy of children, right, because they just they're so 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:52.680 tangled up in their own world. And of course she 0:09:52.840 --> 0:09:56.120 was very young, and in that moment, I thought, oh, 0:09:56.160 --> 0:09:58.480 I've done a pretty good job of hiding this. 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:02.080 That of protecting her. 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:04.720 Yeah, you really did protect her, which you did a 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:06.559 really good job, because you know, a lot of people, 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:08.719 we're just fallible people, but a lot of people are 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:13.200 selfish in that way that you know. Such great parents 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:16.679 are those ones who really do think about the ramifications 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:20.640 of something that may be so devastating, how that would 0:10:20.679 --> 0:10:23.680 impact a child and trying to explain it or them 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:26.640 even just seeing you and really being quite fearful of 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:30.200 you reacting in certain ways. I want to just go 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:33.200 back to that moment that you found out and the 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:41.160 next ensuing three weeks, the betrayal that you must have felt, like, 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:46.520 can you just take me there to I mean, to 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:51.200 put it bluntly, you were sleeping with this man. You 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:54.200 were sleeping with the enemy. You gave him the most 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:58.840 intimate parts of yourself. You, I imagine, would tell him the 0:10:58.880 --> 0:11:03.920 most intimate thing about yourself. You were vulnerable, you trusted him, 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:07.760 you relied on him in certain ways for certain things 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:10.319 depended on him. You thought he was a good guy, 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:15.280 You thought, you know, you'd found a really great person 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:20.160 to share a future with, and then you find out 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:26.239 that he is a freaking sociopath. Like, I'm so freaking angry. 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:31.000 He just lies and lies and lies, like I can't 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:34.240 I can't understand. Can you take me there? What was 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:35.040 that like for you? 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:38.520 I mean, first of all, it was disbelief, because, like 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:41.040 you said, this is a man that you know, would 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:43.040 lie in bed next to me at night and when 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:45.760 I couldn't sleep, he would, you know, he would talk 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:49.320 to me until I fell asleep. We shared everything, and 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:54.200 I wholeheartedly believed that he had my best interests at heart. 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:58.760 And so to wake up one morning and find that 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:01.880 he's a not the person you think he is, that's 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:06.520 a very discombobulating thing for your brain to cope with, 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:09.640 because it was, you know, the person that I loved 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:11.440 and the person that I was building a future with, 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:13.960 and the person that I felt like was my person 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:19.200 and had my back and saw me actually didn't exist, 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:21.280 didn't exist, No. 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:25.760 Like, how do you compartmentalize that? As like, were you 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:28.280 a mess? Like you or you much? 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:28.800 Well? 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:30.960 I remember you saying in the docor you when you 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:33.079 spoke to the detective, like you had to go and vomit. 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:34.000 Yeah. 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:38.080 I felt a lot of physical reaction during during those 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:39.600 weeks and months afterwards. 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:42.040 I'm not a big person. 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:46.000 I'm a small framed person, and I lost six kilos 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:49.240 in three weeks. I could not eat, I could not sleep, 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:53.839 I could not rest until I knew how it all 0:12:54.080 --> 0:13:00.240 fit together. And I think in terms of compartmentalizing, it 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:03.880 was like a death. So the man that I loved 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:06.120 and the man that I was building my future with 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:09.560 died in that moment because he actually didn't really exist. 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:10.319 In the first place. 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:11.839 So he was dead and gone. 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:14.000 He was dead and gone. But it's weird and you 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:14.839 actually grieve that. 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:17.839 Yeah, there was grief around that, But then I felt 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:22.280 bad for grieving because it wasn't real person. So confusing 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:25.600 for me. But you know those you know those moments 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:27.719 where you go, oh, just call them and tell them that, 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:29.880 or just because you know, you get into these habits 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:32.360 and it becomes part of your life. And in those 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:34.559 weeks afterwards, I'd be like, ohll just call Max. 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:38.600 Oh shit, yeah, okay name I know. 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:43.480 Yeah, So yeah, that was that was really hard, and 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:47.360 I think part of it for me was and this 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:49.240 is the thing I've realized. The thing about our brains 0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:53.319 is we don't like unfinished stories, and we either make 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:56.040 up the ending so that we can rest, or we 0:13:56.120 --> 0:14:01.440 remain in this state of complete confusion. And and you know, 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:04.480 you just can't rest until you've got the ending or 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:07.600 you've got the pieces of the puzzle. And during those 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:11.440 weeks and months afterwards, it was very, very difficult for 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:15.360 me to get information about the last eighteen months of 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:18.560 my life. So obviously I could research him and what 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:21.160 he'd done previously because I had his real name now, 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:24.360 but the police really couldn't tell me very much other 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:28.200 than you know, go through my experience. They couldn't release 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:34.280 any information about other victims legally legally, how frustrating. 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:34.800 Yeah. 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:36.560 And then of course his family of are very tight 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:38.440 lip they wouldn't talk to me, friends, etc. 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:39.840 So I was. 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:43.520 Trying to finish a jigsaw puzzle in my mind so 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:46.360 I could put it to bed, but I couldn't because 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:48.600 no one I couldn't get the information. And I think 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:51.600 that was what was really difficult for me. And it 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:55.480 wasn't until we until I spoke to Greg bar Up, 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:57.480 who was the journalist from The Australian who did the 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:01.520 podcast Who the Hell is Hamish's? Things really started to 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:04.440 become clear. So I lived in that world for. 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:05.080 Over a year. 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:07.160 Oh that's long. 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:08.520 It was a long time. 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:11.640 And at the same time, I was single parenting at 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:15.080 the same time, you know, I had lost all of 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:18.440 my financial security, every piece of savings, all of my 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:23.000 career superannuation, any shares I had, and I had my 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:25.560 monthly salary, and I had a you know, it's not 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:27.120 lost on me that I had a really good job, 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:30.120 but I also worked really hard and I couldn't lose 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:34.360 my job. So I was just working my ass off 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:36.600 during that time, just like I've got to keep my job. 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:37.840 I can't lose my job. 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:41.480 Yeah, because that was the only financial security that I had. 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:44.920 So there was all of this stuff going on as well, 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:47.880 and at the same time, I'm just trying to kind 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:50.280 of figure out this parallel universe that I'd been living 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:51.560 in for the last eighteen months. 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:55.400 I did kind of put it out there to a 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:57.240 few people who had listened to the podcast, what would 0:15:57.240 --> 0:15:59.520 you want to know if you could ask her a question? 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:03.760 I had one person say something that was really offensive 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:08.160 to me, but a really valid question, and I answered it. 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:09.920 So I'll tell you what I answered to me. 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:14.440 But because it was offensive to me, she didn't mean 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:16.880 it in but she couldn't help it, she said, I 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:19.120 just She goes, I don't want to be victim blame me, 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:22.120 but I just want to know how stupid can you 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:27.120 be to give someone your money? And I answered. He'd 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:31.640 been with her for a year, never talked about her 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:35.600 money ever, and when he asked her, if this is correct, 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:38.560 please correct me if it's not. When he asked her, 0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:41.760 do you have a self managed super fund? And she 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:44.120 said no, he was like, well you sure, because you 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:47.280 make a lot more interest in. He's a CFO, so 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:49.800 he's been going to work with her every morning. He 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:52.440 goes off to his office and she goes off to 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:57.800 her office. So I know bankers, I know stockbrokers. If 0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:01.000 someone that I've known for over years to me, Evie, 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:04.359 have you ever thought about, you know, maximizing your money, 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:05.440 Like that's what I do. 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:06.480 I could help you. 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:09.880 I'd be like, here's my super fund because I don't 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:12.960 know how to do that. That's how easily it can happen, 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:18.000 like we all know people in banking, in money, someone 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:20.879 who has and you just I mean, out of one 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:23.320 hundred percent of people, you've got one percent who's going 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:24.240 to be con men. 0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:26.720 Yeah, I mean, I have so much to say about 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:30.679 this because and first of all, i'd say, you know, 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:35.120 when it all happened, the victim blaming probably came from me, Yeah, 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:38.800 the most, very quickly and the most. And how did 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:39.919 I let this happen? 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:40.520 Pretty much? 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:42.600 Nothing anyone could say to me that I haven't already 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:43.360 said to myself. 0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:47.600 But what I do know after all of this time. 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:52.199 And it's been many, many years, is that they're you know, 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:59.560 it's very difficult to describe the insidious nature of this 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:06.760 type of crime and the coercive control and the grooming 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:10.840 that happens over a very long period of time that 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:15.600 gets you to that point. So when the media, you know, 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:19.360 and to be honest, currently the media doing a fantastic 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:22.880 job at all of this, you know, this kind of narrative. 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:27.119 But previously the media would do these sensationalized stories like 0:18:27.320 --> 0:18:31.240 you know, vulnerable divorcee loses life savings to con man 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:33.800 in you know, another country or whatever it might be. 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:38.320 And you see those sensational headlines and you flick past 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:40.359 them because you think, what an idiot. I'd never do that, 0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:43.520 and I was one of those people. But what I 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:46.680 what I want to do in bringing this story forward 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:51.040 is help educate people like your friend who and in 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:53.639 fairness to her, I probably would have said something like 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:58.000 that as well. But what we know about you know 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:01.719 the function and the these types of relationships where there 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:05.000 is so much grooming and so much coercive control. In 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:10.080 my case it was financial coercive control. Is that if 0:19:10.119 --> 0:19:13.000 Hamish had knocked on my door one day and said 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:16.640 handover is super new savings trace enough I go, I 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:19.439 one hundred percent never would have done it. This is 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:23.480 a man who weaseled his way into my life over 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:26.440 a period of nearly a year and a half. He 0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:30.000 pretended to be somebody else. He completely deceived me on 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:34.239 all levels, both an emotional and a professional level. The 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:39.399 number of conversations that we had about finances, about his 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:41.960 line of work, about what he was investing for some 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:46.560 of the wealthiest families in Australia, the different strategies, the 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:51.400 prices of God. I would overhear conversations with people that existed. 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:53.800 I still don't know who these people are, but I 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:55.720 could hear them on the other end of the phone 0:19:56.440 --> 0:19:59.119 talking about the closing price of gold, what happened in 0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:02.640 the French election, how that's impacting the US economy, what 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:06.600 investments were doing. What you know, he would send me, 0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:09.440 And these are just a few examples, just to paint 0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:12.040 the picture. But he would send me an email every 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:15.280 week every Friday that he purportedly wrote to all of 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:18.920 his investors that was pages and pages long about what's 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:20.800 happening in the market and the stocks and how they've 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:23.479 traded them, and what's happening with the investments, and what 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:27.399 the predictions are. He had Bloomberg monitors set up in 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:31.560 his apartment that he tinkered on the whole time. There 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:36.439 were official well they were fake, but he had, you know, 0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:40.760 forged official documents of the investments that he was doing 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:43.919 for me, pages and pages long, showing me the different 0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:46.360 trades and what it started at, what it ended at, 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:50.879 you know. And these are just a few examples of, 0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:55.440 you know, the way in which he created this movie. 0:20:55.680 --> 0:20:59.679 I guess you could say that you know by the 0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:03.680 time he asked me about my superannuation and how many 0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:05.760 you know, how much I was paying in fees and 0:21:05.840 --> 0:21:08.439 that he could do better for me. I had this 0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:11.480 confirmation that he was exactly who he said he was. 0:21:11.880 --> 0:21:14.400 Just this is the death by a thousand cuts. This 0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:18.480 is the coeresive control. This is the you know, the 0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:23.359 deceit to get me to a point where I, one 0:21:23.480 --> 0:21:27.359 hundred percent, without a shadow of a doubt, believed that 0:21:27.480 --> 0:21:30.400 A he had my best interests at heart, and B 0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:34.480 he was the perfect person to help me be financially 0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:35.840 independent for the rest of my life. 0:21:36.160 --> 0:21:37.200 Yeah, there really wasn't. 0:21:37.240 --> 0:21:39.960