Speaker 1: Hey, Orange Pigs America first hoops, Oh boy, that was
Speaker 1: the slogan you sold.
Speaker 2: Iran's wartime propaganda videos featuring AI rap music and lego
Speaker 2: characters are getting millions of views online. They praise the
Speaker 2: Islamic Republic and mock Trump, but their message is also dark,
Speaker 2: anti Semitic and leaning into conspiracy theories.
Speaker 3: Make Israel great again.
Speaker 1: They vorted you to die for Israel.
Speaker 3: For Israel, they lied to you.
Speaker 2: So how's a regime that shut down the Internet and
Speaker 2: isn't known for its sense of humor captured the zeitgeist?
Speaker 2: So well, I'm Nicole Johnston and you're listening to seven
Speaker 2: AM today Holly Daggers, an Iranian American analyst from the
Speaker 2: Washington Institute, on Iran's viral meme war and what it
Speaker 2: tells us about the regime. It's Thursday, April thirty. Holly,
Speaker 2: I've got to say I've become a bit addicted to
Speaker 2: watching these Iranian lego videos over the last couple of weeks,
Speaker 2: and they really seem to have taken the world by storm.
Speaker 2: But before we get into who made them, what's behind it,
Speaker 2: let's talk through a couple of them.
Speaker 3: What's one that's really stuck out to you.
Speaker 4: I think that the one that really stood out to
Speaker 4: me recently was the one about Secretary of War Pete
Speaker 4: Hagsath Pete Hexas.
Speaker 3: This one especially for you, so rapa faress here Persian language.
Speaker 4: Rap is big in Iran, and so it doesn't surprise
Speaker 4: me that they would take rap and make it a medium,
Speaker 4: especially since it also has u US pop culture, as in.
Speaker 1: As Secretary, what a joke, bro cheated on lives, multiple
Speaker 1: kids in the mixed family man, hell No, handsy with women,
Speaker 1: and Fox drunk on the job, your own.
Speaker 3: Team say yo, this dude's taxic.
Speaker 4: I think this is purely for an American audience, at
Speaker 4: least the lego videos, because they're very US centric.
Speaker 1: We hit in the ball works, the Ben Epstein Island
Speaker 1: crewe the ones who hurt the kids, revenge for every
Speaker 1: American soul.
Speaker 3: You and Trump's dirty crew up Preston.
Speaker 4: Did we take paper? Of course, there's this nod to
Speaker 4: the Jeoffrey Epstein files, and that's also a very popular
Speaker 4: theme that you see in these lego videos, highlighting the
Speaker 4: hypocrisy of elites in America and the corruption and the
Speaker 4: lack of accountability in the US while they're wagging their
Speaker 4: finger at Ran Russia China about human rights abuses.
Speaker 1: Yeah, make America great again, now mega would we would
Speaker 1: see what happens. Yeah, watch this sec with defense. We're
Speaker 1: protecting the sort of while you sat face sold just
Speaker 1: to pay for your oil.
Speaker 4: Each and every one of them has a lot of
Speaker 4: attention to detail, not just in this video specifically, but
Speaker 4: other ones as well, Like it depicted President Donald Trump
Speaker 4: as a gambler, and actually that was a nod to
Speaker 4: IRG Sigarette's Force Commander loss Some Solomony, who was actually
Speaker 4: killed by the first Trump administration in the US airstrike
Speaker 4: in Iraq, and Solomony famously used to describe Trump as
Speaker 4: a gambler.
Speaker 2: We were talking about one earlier. It goes through Trump's
Speaker 2: business deals in the Gulf. It's God Jared Kushner in it,
Speaker 2: and then it lists this long list of US wars
Speaker 2: around the world. The creators have really done their homework.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think it really leans into this anti
Speaker 4: imperialist lens.
Speaker 3: So the Islamic Republic.
Speaker 4: I would say, in very simple terms, sees itselves as
Speaker 4: the rebels and star wars, and the US is the Empire,
Speaker 4: the Mountain the.
Speaker 1: Files day, but another common name is standing you strike
Speaker 1: one man, we just sat in your brain, we put
Speaker 1: another in.
Speaker 4: The US has a history, especially in the Middle East
Speaker 4: and to the east of Iran in Afghanistan, where they've
Speaker 4: had these forever wars that they have not successfully been
Speaker 4: able to win. The team behind these videos explosive media
Speaker 4: is honing in on these US historical contacts, and so
Speaker 4: it's not surprising to me that they would focus on
Speaker 4: that to say, yes, this is yet another failed US
Speaker 4: war in the Middle East that could be a potential
Speaker 4: forever war where American troops are killed. And these are
Speaker 4: real sensitive issues for the American public, especially the magabase,
Speaker 4: who are mostly isolationists and opposed to these kind of
Speaker 4: wars because it should be America first. We shouldn't be
Speaker 4: going back to wars in the Middle East, and so
Speaker 4: this really clashes with what the President's been saying.
Speaker 2: Holly, how has Israel featured in the videos, Because one
Speaker 2: of the most striking images that I've seen recently has
Speaker 2: Israeli soldiers looking over US citizens in chains in a
Speaker 2: bombed out America. That was the final sort of scene
Speaker 2: of one of the recent ones.
Speaker 4: Well, I think that there's a lot of anti Semitism
Speaker 4: that are president in these videos. It basically is saying
Speaker 4: that Israel's controlling the strings of the United States. They're
Speaker 4: depicting Israeli Prime Minister of Benjamin Antanyahu drinking the blood
Speaker 4: of I assumed children. I think it even had the
Speaker 4: double wearing the Star of David. So it's really leaning
Speaker 4: into that anti Semitism that, unfortunately the Islamac Republic has
Speaker 4: been known for.
Speaker 2: Holy you're American but you haven't around him background. Can
Speaker 2: you give us any insight into why you think they
Speaker 2: chose Lego for these videos?
Speaker 4: So my understanding because one of the team members behind
Speaker 4: Explosive Media is said that it's because Legos globally resonate,
Speaker 4: but I think just unpacking why it's so surprising that
Speaker 4: they're able to lean so well into these themes that.
Speaker 3: Resonate with Americans.
Speaker 4: And of course, if there's also these Iranian embassy accounts
Speaker 4: that are posting memes, some of which are just related
Speaker 4: to viral moments, it's because they're of that access and
Speaker 4: it's because there are young Iranians that are curious about
Speaker 4: the outside world. I know that Iran's relatively isolated from
Speaker 4: much of the world, but Iranians have to use circumvention
Speaker 4: tools to get online historically. Unfortunately, now there's an internet
Speaker 4: shut down, the longest in modern day history since the
Speaker 4: war began. And so I don't necessarily think that everybody
Speaker 4: that will be working on this team is pro regime,
Speaker 4: but are and it perhaps for the money, because they
Speaker 4: have a real good understanding and sense of American POLP culture,
Speaker 4: the news cycle, and of course English language skills.
Speaker 3: That being said, Explosive Media.
Speaker 4: Has said that they are a customer of the Isslatmak
Speaker 4: Republics are not really as independent as they had initially suggested.
Speaker 4: So I wouldn't be surprised if the company that's behind
Speaker 4: these lego videos are also behind the Iranian embassy accounts
Speaker 4: and even a speaker of Parliament, Mohammed barer Ldibov, who's
Speaker 4: also been very cheeky in his tweets in recent weeks.
Speaker 2: I mean, how different is this to the type of
Speaker 2: propaganda that Iran and the regime would have put out
Speaker 2: in the past.
Speaker 4: Well, I'll just give you another example that you might
Speaker 4: not have seen. But when there were the American pilots
Speaker 4: that were down in their jets. A couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 4: there were all these AI generated pictures of like an
Speaker 4: US soldier marrying local woman from a tribe in Iran
Speaker 4: making kebab, and it was to hints at the hospitality
Speaker 4: of Iranians, and these were depictions by the Iranian diaspora.
Speaker 3: They instantly made a lego version where these local.
Speaker 4: Tribesmen from the Lure ethnic minority were chasing a pilot
Speaker 4: with guns, and so it was like to counter the
Speaker 4: narrative of well, this is an enemy, we're not going
Speaker 4: to be hospitable.
Speaker 3: But the Islamak Republic has been behind the times for
Speaker 3: a while now.
Speaker 4: They've tried to really lean in hard into the narrative
Speaker 4: of the bloody eight year war with Iraq in the
Speaker 4: nineteen eighties and the notion of martyrdom, but it really
Speaker 4: doesn't resonate with Irani and gen z that weren't alive
Speaker 4: when that war happened. And so I think over time
Speaker 4: they realized that actually there's a way to do this,
Speaker 4: and perhaps they might have even been inspired by the
Speaker 4: current Trump administration's White House account, which has been using
Speaker 4: AI generated videos with themes like call of Duty, La
Speaker 4: Boo boo dolls and honing in on topics like ice rates,
Speaker 4: the Iran war, and so perhaps they finally looked at
Speaker 4: that and were like, Hey, I have an idea. Why
Speaker 4: don't we counter their narrative with this kind of narrative?
Speaker 4: And I think that's how it resonated. But it's really
Speaker 4: because it's spent a lot of time on social media
Speaker 4: and understanding the information space and understanding how the American
Speaker 4: public thinks and feels in this moment.
Speaker 2: Coming up the hidden hypocrisy of the lego memes. What
Speaker 2: do you think the reaction would have been to these
Speaker 2: videos inside the country from both pro and anti regime people.
Speaker 2: And I also know, Holly that you really focus on
Speaker 2: young people in Iran. So do you think they would
Speaker 2: in some ways be sort of loving this attention and
Speaker 2: this propaganda war or are they just really focused on
Speaker 2: trying to survive?
Speaker 4: Well, I think progme Iranians if they could understand in
Speaker 4: an entirety of what was being said, I think it
Speaker 4: would resonate because some of those themes, like the Epstein
Speaker 4: files or having that deity ball, or the reference to
Speaker 4: Trump as a gambler, these are themes that we actually
Speaker 4: see in the pro regime rallies like the nineteen seventy
Speaker 4: nine Revolution anniversary that happens annually in February, and so
Speaker 4: I think that would resonate. But for the average Iranian
Speaker 4: that's anti regime, I think they would just scoff at it,
Speaker 4: because for them, in this moment, they're trying.
Speaker 3: To get by the little bit that I've been able
Speaker 3: to connect to Iranians.
Speaker 4: Inside Iran, separate from the war, they're still processing the
Speaker 4: unprecedented massacre of Iranians protesters in January.
Speaker 5: Ms International is sounding the alarm over Iran's crackdown on
Speaker 5: anti government protests that have swept the country. The human
Speaker 5: rights group says Iranian authorities have committed mass killings on
Speaker 5: an unprecedented scale, with security forces routinely using lethal force
Speaker 5: against unarmed protesters.
Speaker 4: And so I think that this is not going to
Speaker 4: be a focus for the average Iranian.
Speaker 2: While all of this propaganda war is happening, the actual
Speaker 2: war is still in this very fragile stage. It's hard
Speaker 2: to know where it's at.
Speaker 1: Neither Tehran nor Washington seem to want to move at
Speaker 1: the moment.
Speaker 5: And meanwhile, the Iranians have sent the foreign minister Arachi
Speaker 5: to Russia.
Speaker 3: While Trump is keeping the door open to diplomacy.
Speaker 5: Iraq Shei blames the United States for the last round
Speaker 5: of negotiations falling apart.
Speaker 2: What do you think that the regime wants at this stage?
Speaker 2: Is it a cease fire or do you think that
Speaker 2: they could actually be prepared to drag out this war
Speaker 2: for much longer.
Speaker 4: Well, we're dealing with the new face of the Islamic Republic,
Speaker 4: one that's more hardline and more repressive, and I think
Speaker 4: this new leadership is willing to take more gambles, and
Speaker 4: I think that they're willing to escalate because they recognize
Speaker 4: that this is an existential threat. In that they also
Speaker 4: want to make sure that another war doesn't happen again.
Speaker 4: And so that's why you see even on this blockade,
Speaker 4: there have been entertaining talks, but they haven't decided to
Speaker 4: go to Islamabad.
Speaker 3: So basically they're calling Trump on his bluff.
Speaker 4: And I think that for them, they want to make
Speaker 4: sure this is the war that ends all future wars.
Speaker 3: And unfortunately, if.
Speaker 4: And when that does happen, I think if they had
Speaker 4: their brother, they would go all the way and try
Speaker 4: to develop a nuclear weapon to make sure that a
Speaker 4: future conflict doesn't arise, because they see it as a
Speaker 4: form of deterrence.
Speaker 2: Finally, Holly, if we could look inside Iran now, Trump
Speaker 2: initially urged Iranians to rise up against the regime. That
Speaker 2: didn't happen during this war. And if anything, some analysts
Speaker 2: are saying iron could become even more repressive with a
Speaker 2: revolutionary guard so firmly entrenched. Now, what do you think.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, I keep saying that Trump I think
Speaker 4: was hoping for a Venezuela deal, but he's created a
Speaker 4: North Korea instead, a regime that's more hardline, more repressive,
Speaker 4: more emboldened, and unfortunately the Iranian people are caught in
Speaker 4: the middle. An overwhelming majority want the Islamic Republic gone,
Speaker 4: and this situation has created a place where now Iranians
Speaker 4: are worried about the Islamic Republic taking revenge on the
Speaker 4: Iranian people. Just earlier in March, there we're at least
Speaker 4: fifteen hundred arrest Those have been growing every day. There's
Speaker 4: been at least half a dozen executions, and some of
Speaker 4: them are protesters tied to the January anti regime uprising,
Speaker 4: but they're really trying to win the propaganda or narrative war,
Speaker 4: and I think it's important to emphasize we're in the
Speaker 4: longest internet shutdown in Iranian history that's been stayed in posed. Meanwhile,
Speaker 4: these accounts are able to freely post online while the
Speaker 4: Iranian people are really struggling to get online, or they
Speaker 4: have to buy these really expensive VPNs that are I
Speaker 4: would say shady because they are likely tied to the
Speaker 4: clerical establishment security apparatus, or they're just really struggling even
Speaker 4: to get connectivity in these moments. And so it's clear
Speaker 4: to me that this is part of a narrative war
Speaker 4: where they're trying to show them a different face to
Speaker 4: the outside world while they were rophous their own people.
Speaker 2: Holly, it's been great talking to you.
Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2: I'm Nicole Johnston and this has been my last week
Speaker 2: filling in for Ruby Jones, who'll be back in the
Speaker 2: seven am hosting seat next week. It's been great bringing
Speaker 2: you some of the biggest stories of the year so far,
Speaker 2: from the beginning of the Iran War to the arrest
Speaker 2: of Prince Andrew to getting out and speaking with protesters
Speaker 2: at the explosive rally against Israeli President Isaac Hertzog. Thanks
Speaker 2: so much for listening.