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Speaker 1: Apoche production. Welcome to Secrets of the Underworld. I am

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Speaker 1: Neil the muscle comments.

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Speaker 2: And in this episode, I talk to Jamie Hull, who

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Speaker 2: survived a plane crash.

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Speaker 3: I definitely could have gone down that slippery road the

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Speaker 3: way that I was headed. But something came over me

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Speaker 3: around about the age of sixteen, and I started to

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Speaker 3: believe in myself a little bit more ironically, I'm dealing

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Speaker 3: with those young criminals and their dolls much like myself

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Speaker 3: back in the day. And I was able to turn

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Speaker 3: around and say to these young guys, look, I've been

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Speaker 3: in your shoes, and trust me, you can do better.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I came through the end of that absolutely

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Speaker 3: black and blue, but I gave as good as I got.

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Speaker 3: And I think I fractured my opponent's rib. I had

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Speaker 3: a bilateral nosal fracture, super orbital eye socket fractures. I

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Speaker 3: tore through the right side of my nose. I ruptured

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Speaker 3: my large intestine, my colon, and I lacerated my liver

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Speaker 3: internally from that jump. Doesn't matter what happens in life,

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Speaker 3: you know, if you still believe in yourself, if you

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Speaker 3: still want it, if you're still hungry for a process,

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Speaker 3: you can get there.

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Speaker 1: Thank you anyway for coming on, Jamie. I really appreciate this.

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Speaker 2: But we'll start the before we get into the nitty

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Speaker 2: gritty of everything in your life.

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Speaker 1: Let's start about you growing up, schooling, first.

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Speaker 2: Job and why did you want to join the army.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for having me, Neil, it's a great pleasure

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Speaker 3: to be speaking to you down there in Australia. I

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Speaker 3: grew up in a small market town in Bedfordshire called

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Speaker 3: Leighton Buzzard, which is a bit of an odd name,

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Speaker 3: so most people do remember it, and you know, it

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Speaker 3: was a pretty sleepy little market town. It's a bit

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Speaker 3: busy these days. But I'm now based in London, in

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Speaker 3: central London, and you know, I had a pretty normal upbringing.

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Speaker 3: But I was also a bit of a rebel for

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Speaker 3: a couple of years because I was largely unsupervised and

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Speaker 3: my parents split up and that wasn't uncommon, you know,

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Speaker 3: many many fans did. But in those days, you know,

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Speaker 3: my dad was away working a lot, my mum had

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Speaker 3: sort of moved away at the time with the sort

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Speaker 3: of parental split, and so I was young. I mean

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Speaker 3: I was only what twelve years of age. It sounds

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Speaker 3: quite alarming, But as long as the family unit was

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Speaker 3: still functional, then you know, social services perhaps weren't so bothered.

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Speaker 3: And we were getting on with it, and we were

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Speaker 3: sort of keeping ourselves afloat, and I'd come home from

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Speaker 3: school and sort of cook a meal from my younger

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Speaker 3: brother as well and kind of keep us going. But

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Speaker 3: during that period, so like I said, I was twelve

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Speaker 3: years of age, growing up into my sort of mid

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Speaker 3: teens and so on, I was a bit of a

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Speaker 3: rebel because of the lack of parental supervision. So I

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Speaker 3: was just getting on with it. And when no one's

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Speaker 3: really telling you what to do or what time to

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Speaker 3: come home and tow the party line, so to speak,

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Speaker 3: you just get up to no good. And I was

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Speaker 3: a man about town or just boy about town really,

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Speaker 3: but you know, I was getting involved in crime and

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Speaker 3: a bit of shoplifting and criminal damage and even breaking

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Speaker 3: and entering buildings and climbing over scaffolding on sort of

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Speaker 3: building sites and you name it, you know, construction sites

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Speaker 3: and all the rest of it. So I was a

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Speaker 3: right little kind of Herbert. But what I will say

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Speaker 3: is that it could have got worse. So I mean

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Speaker 3: I had mates that I kind of powered around with

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Speaker 3: in those days that kind of went on and graduated,

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Speaker 3: and you know, I know people that ended up getting

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Speaker 3: potted for armed robbery for you know, serious GBH, you know,

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Speaker 3: kind of assaults with intent. There were even other things

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Speaker 3: like firearms offences that I know people that got involved in.

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Speaker 3: But I definitely could have gone down that slippery road

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Speaker 3: the way that I was headed. But something came over

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Speaker 3: me around about the age of sixteen, around about the

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Speaker 3: time that I received the results from my GCSE, so

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Speaker 3: there's certificate of education from high school, and my results

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Speaker 3: were appalling. I think I got like one GCS and

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Speaker 3: I figured that, you know, for all of those years

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Speaker 3: of education, and that's what I've got to show for it.

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Speaker 3: And my grandfather at the time was giving me a

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Speaker 3: bit of a hard time basic where you need your English,

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Speaker 3: you need your maths, and without that, you're not going

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Speaker 3: to get too far in life. And I guess he

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Speaker 3: persuaded me to kind of retake the exams and I

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Speaker 3: stayed on at school and it was all good, you know,

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Speaker 3: I mean I worked hard, I sort of pulled it

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Speaker 3: back again and I eventually, having repeated the year, I

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Speaker 3: kind of got a bundle more sort of GCSS and

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Speaker 3: I've got the English and maths and so on, and

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Speaker 3: I started to believe in myself a little bit more.

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Speaker 3: So I sort of pulled it around. But literally, in

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Speaker 3: the few years leading up to that, you know, I

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Speaker 3: was getting up to no good and you know, breaking

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Speaker 3: into buildings and shops and stealing and criminal damage and

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Speaker 3: you know a bit of sort of petty sort of

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Speaker 3: drugs type stuff. And I definitely would have gone down

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Speaker 3: a slippery slope and I probably would have ended up

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Speaker 3: in not just failing education, but I would have likely

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Speaker 3: ended up in a boys kind of penitentiary and maybe

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Speaker 3: face in prison eventually if I hadn't remediated on my ways.

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Speaker 3: So that was my childhood. I mean, it's not a

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Speaker 3: sob story, but it's a case of.

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Speaker 1: Think we all did it though, because I think I

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Speaker 1: did the same to yeah, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: Like my parents split up when I was eight years old,

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Speaker 2: and I used to hang out at my grandparents house.

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Speaker 2: But I got up to mischief because I knew I

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Speaker 2: didn't have to tell them where I was going.

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Speaker 1: I was just hanging with my mates. So I think

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Speaker 1: everyone used to just get up to no good and

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Speaker 1: just didn't tell their parents. But hopefully you just didn't

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Speaker 1: get caught.

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Speaker 3: That's exactly it. Yeah, I mean, you know, and you

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Speaker 3: could perhaps hide a lot more in those days. I

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Speaker 3: mean it was pre internet, you know, pre mobile phone.

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Speaker 3: If you wanted to sort of you know, be a

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Speaker 3: bit more cunning and hidden as it were, you could

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Speaker 3: get away with it. And I was exactly that as

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Speaker 3: a young teen, you know. But what I realized, maybe

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Speaker 3: quite young, also was that I would utilize that cunning

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Speaker 3: and that sort of daring do to more positive effect

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Speaker 3: and used the mindset and use the will to sort

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Speaker 3: of benefit myself and better myself rather than just being

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Speaker 3: sort of on the criminal side of things, you know.

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Speaker 3: And so just to turn it around, I only did

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Speaker 3: I sort of pay attention in school and sort of

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Speaker 3: do a bit better, but I also started to work.

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Speaker 3: So I took on little jobs and I started to

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Speaker 3: graft for a living. And I didn't necessarily get much

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Speaker 3: support at home, because you know, financially we weren't particularly

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Speaker 3: well off. But I learned from a young age that

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Speaker 3: if I go out and work for it in my

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Speaker 3: free time, in my spare moments, then I can earn

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Speaker 3: a few pounds, you know, a few dollars here and there,

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Speaker 3: and then that would add up, and then I could

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Speaker 3: do stuff with the money, and I could buy myself

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Speaker 3: new clothing and put it towards say a car when

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Speaker 3: I got my license, and that kind of stuff. And

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Speaker 3: I just kept working and I realized the power of

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Speaker 3: going out and the power of grafting for yourself to

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Speaker 3: sort of make an honest living. And then when I

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Speaker 3: got to about eighteen nineteen, I think I made the

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Speaker 3: concerted decision that I wanted to do something big and

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Speaker 3: sort of brave, at least that's what it felt like

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Speaker 3: at the time. And I'd put my money where my

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Speaker 3: mouth was, and I went to an agent in London

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Speaker 3: and I bought a around the world ticket to travel,

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Speaker 3: and I did exactly that. So I carried on working

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Speaker 3: and I saved up a shed load of money, and

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Speaker 3: it was around about six thousand pounds, so probably about

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Speaker 3: twelve thousand Australian dollars back in the day. We're talking

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Speaker 3: thirty years ago. And I took the plunge and my

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Speaker 3: first stop was from London to Johannesburg in South Africa,

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Speaker 3: and I traveled all around the whole of Southern Africa.

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Speaker 3: I even got a job working in Cape Town on

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Speaker 3: the markets there because I'd worked on markets in the UK,

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Speaker 3: because this is a small market town where I'd come from.

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Speaker 3: So I developed that experience, managed to leverage that down

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Speaker 3: in Cape Town, and I was suddenly found myself selling

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Speaker 3: like ten foot high wooden giraffes and big sort of

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Speaker 3: wooden hippopotamus and that kind of stuff that had been

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Speaker 3: carved out in places like Zimbabwe, Zambia, Malawi, Botswana. And

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Speaker 3: it was a great experience. You know. I ended up

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Speaker 3: traveling from South Africa, Namibia, Botswana, Zimbabwe, Zambia, cross the

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Speaker 3: border into Angola, even when there was a little civil

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Speaker 3: war going on, I went up to Malawi. I mean

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Speaker 3: this was before I'd done anything in life. You know,

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Speaker 3: I was just a young backpacker and I put my

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Speaker 3: best foot forwards. I used this so I was street

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Speaker 3: smart and I used my best kind of judgment on

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Speaker 3: the ground to try to keep myself on the straight

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Speaker 3: and narrow to keep myself safe. But I took sort

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Speaker 3: of calculated risks to step here and to step there,

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Speaker 3: and to take various stepping stones to make it a

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Speaker 3: really exciting young journey that I took in my own life.

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Speaker 3: And it really was that. And I mean I had

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Speaker 3: so many adventures along the road. You know, I was

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Speaker 3: crossing borders in countries where you know, you get turned

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Speaker 3: over by immigration officials and police at various borders and checkpoints.

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Speaker 3: In this is in African countries, like thirty years ago,

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Speaker 3: so you literally get turned over, and you'd soon realize, well,

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Speaker 3: if I have a little stash of US dollars in

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Speaker 3: my back pocket, I can kind of smooth this out

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Speaker 3: avoid getting effectively my gear turned over and stuff stolen

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Speaker 3: off me. I can kind of preserve what I've got

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Speaker 3: by you know, cutting them ten dollars fifteen bucks here

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Speaker 3: and there, you know, and I could keep myself on

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Speaker 3: the straight and narrow and survive and get from A

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Speaker 3: to B, t C to D and have my little

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Speaker 3: African adventure. And that's how it was. I realized that,

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Speaker 3: you know, Africa, you know, was a little bit corrupt

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Speaker 3: certainly in those days, but you could could survive if

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Speaker 3: you used your wit and you use your kind of

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Speaker 3: intelligence to kind of navigate your path and your journey.

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Speaker 3: So that taught me a lot from a young age.

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Speaker 3: With the journey and the sort of the forward thinking

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Speaker 3: and the planning that went into that. And then so

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Speaker 3: from South Africa I bundled over to Australia and ended

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Speaker 3: up in Perth as part of this around the world

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Speaker 3: thing that I had going on, and I went across,

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Speaker 3: spent some time in the West, and then it went across.

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Speaker 3: To correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it

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Speaker 3: was forty hours of greyhound bus across the nullaboard plane.

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Speaker 3: Quite an adventure in itself, and I can remember the

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Speaker 3: bus driver would come on the microphone, so we're going

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Speaker 3: to be stopping here for a couple of hours. You

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Speaker 3: just need to get yourself into the gas station and

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Speaker 3: fill your boots and take your time, and it will

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Speaker 3: have a sandwich and maybe a hot drink, and then

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Speaker 3: we'll be back on the bus for so and so

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Speaker 3: and then you can get your hit down once again.

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Speaker 3: And that's how it was. And we had all these

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Speaker 3: various stops across the nullbore. Before I knew it, I

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Speaker 3: was in Adelaide and I went to see the final

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Speaker 3: Grand Prix. In Adelaide. I managed to just about get

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Speaker 3: one of the last romaining tickets that were going before

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Speaker 3: that moved across to Melbourne the older Formula one. So

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Speaker 3: I was in Adelaide at the time, and it was

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Speaker 3: a wonderful sort of experienced, great adventure, and I got

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Speaker 3: to take in all of that kind of environment down

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Speaker 3: towards where the Murray River is and all of those

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Speaker 3: big plantations with the big wineries and stuff. So that

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Speaker 3: was pretty cool. And then I went across to Sydney

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Speaker 3: and I sort of fell on my feet. I end

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Speaker 3: up as a black dicky bow tie sort of cocktail

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Speaker 3: barman in the Bourbon the Bourbon and beefsteak. It was

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Speaker 3: in King's Cross in Sydney, and it was a great

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Speaker 3: adventure and I'm sort of learning the cocktails and trying

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Speaker 3: to sort of memorize the menu and you know, take

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Speaker 3: care of the monies and everything so that the house

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Speaker 3: always wins on that front. And I did pretty well

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Speaker 3: out of it as well as what felt like a

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Speaker 3: glamorous bar kind of barman type role in Sydney. So

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Speaker 3: I was pretty well rewarded and I enjoyed that, and

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Speaker 3: it allowed me to save up some pennies and consider

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Speaker 3: what I was, you know, some of the other things

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Speaker 3: that I was going to do while I was out there.

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Speaker 3: I went up to the North and I was really

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Speaker 3: really interested and also passionate about getting into the sport

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Speaker 3: of recreational scuba diving. And I loved it so much

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Speaker 3: that I volunteered, having done some basic courses, and I

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Speaker 3: volunteered as a deckhand up in Cairns. So I ran

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Speaker 3: out of Cairns with a small operation, and it was

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Speaker 3: a fifty foot schooner like a yacht called Ocean Free,

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Speaker 3: and it spoke around for fifteen nautical miles offshore from

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Speaker 3: Cairns out to Green Island every single day. And I

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Speaker 3: was a volunteer on the boat. So I used to

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Speaker 3: shadow the dive masters and the instructors, and I learned

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Speaker 3: the trade. And I was there making tea for the customers,

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Speaker 3: you know, you know, scrubbing out at the bathroom and

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Speaker 3: everything at the end of the day on board and

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Speaker 3: the toilets. But I learned the trade, and I learned

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Speaker 3: everything there was to know about the scuba diving industry,

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Speaker 3: and before too long, I was actually, you know, through

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Speaker 3: the voluntary process that I'd embarked upon, I was actually

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Speaker 3: a qualified dive master myself. And then I switched company.

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Speaker 3: I went to work for a bigger commercial outfit called

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Speaker 3: pro Dive, and I was then going further out every day,

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Speaker 3: you know, some thirty miles offshore or more. So we

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Speaker 3: would go to not just the inner reef, but to

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Speaker 3: the middle reef. In some cases we got out to

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Speaker 3: the outer reef on some of those bigger liver board

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Speaker 3: operations that I was working on. And so it was

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Speaker 3: a magic adventure I was doing. I remember thirty years

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Speaker 3: ago on the Barrier Reef. I was diving like the

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Speaker 3: very best of what the Great Barrier Reef had to offer,

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Speaker 3: you know, massive sort of pelagic species of shark. We'd

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Speaker 3: see dolphin, and massive great sea turtle, green turtle, hawks,

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Speaker 3: bill turtle, and giant hump head maori rass as well.

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Speaker 3: You know, in the water, it was a wonderful underwater environment,

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Speaker 3: That's what I'm trying to describe to you. And the

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Speaker 3: visibility was crystal clear, you know, you could see for

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Speaker 3: thirty meters or more, and the water was perhaps twenty

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Speaker 3: eight twenty nine degrees celsius, like comfortable tropical water. The

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Speaker 3: life down there was incredible, absolutely incredible in those days.

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Speaker 3: And I think it's been hit with environmental factors now

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Speaker 3: and coral bleaching and so on. But from what I

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Speaker 3: experienced thirty years ago as a diver down there was

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Speaker 3: absolutely magic. So I was hooked and as such that

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Speaker 3: the dreams of diving stayed with me even to this day,

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Speaker 3: even to this day, and I'm still an active diver

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Speaker 3: now and I still enjoy it immenseally. And that was

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Speaker 3: all thanks to my early journey down under on the

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Speaker 3: Great Barrier Reef. So yeah, just quickly. But my journey

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Speaker 3: then took me around the rest of Australia and I

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Speaker 3: went to the for example, Kakadu National Park in the North,

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Speaker 3: and I'm looking at you know, saltwater crocodiles that were

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Speaker 3: twenty five thirty feet long on the muddy riverbanks of

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Speaker 3: Kakkadoo National Park along that big river system. There frightening

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Speaker 3: prehistoric and I remember these sites and wonders that Australia

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Speaker 3: sort of threw at me. And I spent time in

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Speaker 3: the North and time down through you know Airs Rock

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Speaker 3: and Kings Canyon, back down to Kooper Pedi and those

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Speaker 3: open mines, et cetera. And I came round all the

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Speaker 3: way around Australia and back to Sydney, back down to Melbourne, Victoria,

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Speaker 3: even went across tops across to Tasmania and did a

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Speaker 3: lot of hiking over there, and then the Blue Mountains

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Speaker 3: in Sydney from them, and then finally across to New Zealand.

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Speaker 3: I went South Island to the Alps, and North Island

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Speaker 3: up to Auckland, then across the Fiji a bunch of

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Speaker 3: Fiji islands, then up to Hawaii a load of Hawaiian islands,

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Speaker 3: then North America, and then I ended up driving a

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Speaker 3: car across the whole of America with a load of

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Speaker 3: adventures there and end up in Miami, Paris, London. So

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00:15:29,001 --> 00:15:30,361
Speaker 3: I was on the road for about a year and

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Speaker 3: a half and it was a life changer for me

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Speaker 3: really in terms of what I experienced and the confidence

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Speaker 3: that I developed and the memory. And then I figured

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Speaker 3: what am I going to do? And you asked me

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Speaker 3: at the beginning, you said about the question, so why

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Speaker 3: did you join the army? Well that actually came a

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Speaker 3: little bit later. So my first move was to join

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Speaker 3: a service, and I did consider, you know, the military

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Speaker 3: first off, but I ended up going into the police service.

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Speaker 3: That was my initial career and I joined an organization

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Speaker 3: called Thames Valley Police in the UK, which is sort

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Speaker 3: of west of London, the counties of Buckinghamshire in the north,

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Speaker 3: Oxfordshire and Berkshire which covers you know, Windsor and the Castle,

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Speaker 3: et cetera. So three big counties the west of London.

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Speaker 3: And I was working at Milton Keynes, buckingham Oxford, Aylesbury,

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00:16:22,521 --> 00:16:25,001
Speaker 3: those kind of areas in the north as a young

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Speaker 3: police officer, and it was nine nine nine. It was

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Speaker 3: kind of rapid sort of response that I was involved

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Speaker 3: in chasing the nines and chasing my tail going from

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Speaker 3: job to job, and ironically I'm dealing with those young

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Speaker 3: criminals and their dolls much like myself back in the day,

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Speaker 3: and I'm picking guys up, you know, for kind of offenses

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Speaker 3: that you know, I'd sort of been there, done that,

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Speaker 3: so I guess I was quite a useful asset. And

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Speaker 3: I was able to turn around and say to these

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Speaker 3: young guys, look, I've been in your shoes and trust me,

332
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Speaker 3: you can do better. You can kind of look, this

333
00:16:55,481 --> 00:16:57,081
Speaker 3: was me, and this is how I turned it around

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00:16:57,081 --> 00:16:59,001
Speaker 3: and kind of tried to give them a little bit

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Speaker 3: of inspiration. It didn't always work, of course, but you

336
00:17:02,081 --> 00:17:04,961
Speaker 3: tried to make a small difference cliche as it sounds.

337
00:17:05,401 --> 00:17:07,521
Speaker 3: So I did that for a few years and I

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00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:09,640
Speaker 3: enjoyed it a lot. And again I developed myself as

339
00:17:09,681 --> 00:17:13,041
Speaker 3: an individual, as a character, and I not just developed

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00:17:13,041 --> 00:17:16,920
Speaker 3: the skill set, I guess, but I ultimately was learning

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00:17:16,961 --> 00:17:20,561
Speaker 3: to believe much more in myself and what the capabilities

342
00:17:20,921 --> 00:17:24,601
Speaker 3: could be with the mindset and ambition as well, ambition

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00:17:24,681 --> 00:17:26,961
Speaker 3: to carry you forwards and again put your best foot

344
00:17:27,001 --> 00:17:30,521
Speaker 3: forwards always, and not be afraid to try new ventures

345
00:17:30,521 --> 00:17:33,880
Speaker 3: and to step forward into sort of new horizon, new territory.

346
00:17:34,241 --> 00:17:36,961
Speaker 3: So again coming back to what you asked about the army,

347
00:17:37,561 --> 00:17:41,721
Speaker 3: I joined originally from that move of actually leaving the

348
00:17:41,761 --> 00:17:44,361
Speaker 3: police on sabbatical. That's how it happened. So I took

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Speaker 3: an official career break and they said to me, okay,

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Speaker 3: so what are you going to do. And I said, well,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to probably maybe go out there in the

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Speaker 3: world and do some more diving again, because by now

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Speaker 3: I was a certified, qualified instructor with experience. And I

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00:17:58,681 --> 00:18:02,120
Speaker 3: landed a job in Egypt in the Red Sea, and

355
00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,080
Speaker 3: I loved that. I worked for probably one of the

356
00:18:04,120 --> 00:18:07,960
Speaker 3: biggest operators down there, called Emperor Divers, and I worked

357
00:18:08,001 --> 00:18:13,080
Speaker 3: in the Weber Charmel Shaikh her Gada and Elaguna, and

358
00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:15,481
Speaker 3: I worked all around the Red Sea with the big

359
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Speaker 3: centers for the company, and I worked on liver boards

360
00:18:19,041 --> 00:18:22,801
Speaker 3: and day operations. Again it was world class diving, similar

361
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:24,840
Speaker 3: to what I described on the Barrier reef. It was

362
00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:29,481
Speaker 3: like great visibility, warm water, amazing marine life. And again

363
00:18:29,521 --> 00:18:32,120
Speaker 3: I was hooked with the journey. But as wonderful as

364
00:18:32,201 --> 00:18:35,281
Speaker 3: it was, the industry probably wasn't enough to kind of

365
00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,161
Speaker 3: keep me. And I always felt that I was destined

366
00:18:38,201 --> 00:18:42,840
Speaker 3: to somehow a bigger kind of global adventure. So I

367
00:18:42,921 --> 00:18:47,240
Speaker 3: actually became enamored with the prospect of the forces. And

368
00:18:47,921 --> 00:18:50,640
Speaker 3: I came back from that journey with my diving and

369
00:18:50,681 --> 00:18:52,761
Speaker 3: I'd done work in Egypt, I went to do some

370
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Speaker 3: work in the Caribbean, and I actually got head hunted

371
00:18:55,521 --> 00:18:58,480
Speaker 3: to run an expedition in the Philippines as well, around

372
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Speaker 3: about the turn of the millennium, so two thousand and

373
00:19:01,201 --> 00:19:03,521
Speaker 3: I ran this expedition down there for about six months.

374
00:19:03,561 --> 00:19:06,600
Speaker 3: And having done all of that diving in the first

375
00:19:06,721 --> 00:19:11,201
Speaker 3: year post my journey from the sabbatical from leaving the Police,

376
00:19:11,801 --> 00:19:15,201
Speaker 3: I figured that it might be quite useful to enhance

377
00:19:15,281 --> 00:19:16,880
Speaker 3: my education a bit more. So I went off to

378
00:19:16,961 --> 00:19:20,840
Speaker 3: university and I did a languages training program and a

379
00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:24,241
Speaker 3: degree full time at university, and that's when I joined

380
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Speaker 3: the army. So I joined a unit called Cambridge University

381
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:32,680
Speaker 3: Officer Training Corps. And it was a part time process

382
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Speaker 3: at university where I get to go away on weekends

383
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Speaker 3: and I get to learn all about the army and

384
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Speaker 3: I get to run around with rifle, firing blanks and

385
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:46,441
Speaker 3: learning how it is to soldier. And then I actually

386
00:19:46,481 --> 00:19:49,721
Speaker 3: loved it. And they paid me, you know, few quid

387
00:19:49,801 --> 00:19:53,681
Speaker 3: to kind of sustain myself through my time at university

388
00:19:53,681 --> 00:19:55,600
Speaker 3: and you know, pay the bills, you know, pay the food,

389
00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,640
Speaker 3: et cetera. And it was a wonderful kind of incentive.

390
00:19:58,721 --> 00:20:01,361
Speaker 3: So join the army at weekends, get paid for it,

391
00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:06,400
Speaker 3: and learn some skills along the way. And before too long,

392
00:20:07,001 --> 00:20:09,640
Speaker 3: by the end of like the first semester, I was

393
00:20:09,721 --> 00:20:12,120
Speaker 3: kind of considered a trained soldier because I'd done like

394
00:20:12,120 --> 00:20:15,961
Speaker 3: this military training qualification level one. I'd learned how to soldier,

395
00:20:16,281 --> 00:20:18,961
Speaker 3: albeit at a basic level. I'd learned how to fire

396
00:20:19,001 --> 00:20:21,160
Speaker 3: a rifle. I'd learned how to patrol within a team.

397
00:20:21,441 --> 00:20:24,281
Speaker 3: I'd learned about some basic first aid and I'd learned

398
00:20:24,321 --> 00:20:26,640
Speaker 3: how to kind of look after yourself in the field,

399
00:20:27,041 --> 00:20:30,441
Speaker 3: you know, blah blah blah. And then from the next phase,

400
00:20:30,481 --> 00:20:33,481
Speaker 3: I was kind of invited to join an infantry kind

401
00:20:33,481 --> 00:20:37,640
Speaker 3: of training unit within the Cambridge OTC and I really

402
00:20:37,721 --> 00:20:40,801
Speaker 3: enjoyed that as well, and that really kind of motivated me.

403
00:20:40,921 --> 00:20:43,200
Speaker 3: And then I went on to do a couple of

404
00:20:43,241 --> 00:20:46,801
Speaker 3: Cambrian patrols. So people may not have heard of Cambrian

405
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:51,200
Speaker 3: because it's obviously in England and Europe, but Cambrian was

406
00:20:51,241 --> 00:20:54,561
Speaker 3: all about, you know, a very gritty sort of patrolling

407
00:20:54,561 --> 00:20:58,121
Speaker 3: competition with eight men. You know, you're really soldiering at

408
00:20:58,120 --> 00:21:01,080
Speaker 3: this point, and it's considered one of the toughest patrolling

409
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,240
Speaker 3: competitions in the world. Teams from all over Europe, in

410
00:21:04,241 --> 00:21:06,921
Speaker 3: fact all over the world go to do Cambrian and

411
00:21:07,241 --> 00:21:11,281
Speaker 3: many are successful, but many are not, and sometimes guys

412
00:21:11,321 --> 00:21:14,681
Speaker 3: get injured and in some cases there's even been fatalities

413
00:21:14,681 --> 00:21:17,240
Speaker 3: on Cambrian because of the risks associated with it. You know,

414
00:21:17,281 --> 00:21:20,000
Speaker 3: you're doing you know, steep mountain and you're crossing rivers

415
00:21:20,321 --> 00:21:23,481
Speaker 3: and again you're sleep deprived and you're pushing like fifty

416
00:21:23,561 --> 00:21:28,160
Speaker 3: kilometers with eighty plus pounds of weight on your back. Again,

417
00:21:28,241 --> 00:21:30,241
Speaker 3: that kind of journey with the Army and those kind

418
00:21:30,241 --> 00:21:35,640
Speaker 3: of experiences taught me huge amount about character and about

419
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:40,321
Speaker 3: myself and perhaps what my limits were and perhaps how

420
00:21:40,360 --> 00:21:42,960
Speaker 3: far I could push things, you know, and again the

421
00:21:43,001 --> 00:21:46,600
Speaker 3: personal belief and the endeavor. And so from that, I

422
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,561
Speaker 3: guess I talked about stepping stones, right, you know, when

423
00:21:49,561 --> 00:21:51,880
Speaker 3: I was a backpacker, not being afraid to take that

424
00:21:51,921 --> 00:21:54,561
Speaker 3: next step and try that new border, that new country.

425
00:21:55,281 --> 00:21:57,201
Speaker 3: I did the same thing when I was in the Army.

426
00:21:57,281 --> 00:22:02,680
Speaker 3: So from the junior ranks of Cambridge OTC, I actually

427
00:22:02,761 --> 00:22:05,041
Speaker 3: volunteered to take it further. It was always about volunt

428
00:22:05,441 --> 00:22:08,200
Speaker 3: so you know, just like being a diver in Australia,

429
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:12,440
Speaker 3: I took that next voluntary step and with that I

430
00:22:12,481 --> 00:22:14,880
Speaker 3: surprised myself and I kind of did the next level

431
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,080
Speaker 3: and did the next level, and you know, learned things

432
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,841
Speaker 3: along the way and kind of bettered myself and enhanced

433
00:22:20,961 --> 00:22:23,961
Speaker 3: my qualification, et cetera. I did that with the Army

434
00:22:24,321 --> 00:22:27,761
Speaker 3: and from camberin Patrol and learning really about the nitty

435
00:22:27,761 --> 00:22:31,841
Speaker 3: gritty of soldiering. I then volunteered to go to selection

436
00:22:31,921 --> 00:22:35,041
Speaker 3: for the parachute Regiment, which was Pea Company. I think

437
00:22:35,041 --> 00:22:38,361
Speaker 3: Katrick and many people have heard about service, you know

438
00:22:38,561 --> 00:22:43,041
Speaker 3: of Airborne Forces, airborne troops, and it is probably considered

439
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 3: one of the toughest selection processes in the British Army

440
00:22:47,041 --> 00:22:50,400
Speaker 3: to become a paratrooper. And you know, that really pushed me,

441
00:22:50,481 --> 00:22:52,680
Speaker 3: That really tested me because they kind of thrash you

442
00:22:52,721 --> 00:22:55,721
Speaker 3: within kind of what feels like an inch of your life.

443
00:22:55,961 --> 00:22:58,680
Speaker 3: And it was a very very gnarly, kind of almost

444
00:22:58,761 --> 00:23:02,001
Speaker 3: sadistic sort of training program followed by one week of

445
00:23:02,481 --> 00:23:05,281
Speaker 3: Pea Company test week. And I didn't you know, I

446
00:23:05,321 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 3: didn't come through it lightly. It's not a boast. I

447
00:23:08,241 --> 00:23:11,721
Speaker 3: mean I came through the end of that absolutely beaten up,

448
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:15,561
Speaker 3: absolutely black and blue, and I sort of felt concussed

449
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,281
Speaker 3: almost from getting beaten up in the milling. But I

450
00:23:18,321 --> 00:23:19,801
Speaker 3: gave as good as I got and I think I

451
00:23:19,961 --> 00:23:23,001
Speaker 3: sort of fractured my opponent's rib, but he gave me

452
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 3: like a blinding black eye and sort of concussion. And

453
00:23:26,241 --> 00:23:28,001
Speaker 3: that was milling. That was that was That was one

454
00:23:28,041 --> 00:23:30,360
Speaker 3: test at the end of Pea Company. You know that

455
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,160
Speaker 3: we went through and all of the forced marches and

456
00:23:33,681 --> 00:23:36,521
Speaker 3: high speed runs and you know, high level kind of

457
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,120
Speaker 3: assault train asium apparatus that we had to do. It

458
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,241
Speaker 3: was all confidence builders and testers and and if you

459
00:23:43,321 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 3: come through it, you're you're definitely not unscathed, but the

460
00:23:47,681 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 3: belief that you developing yourself is incredible. So I was

461
00:23:50,681 --> 00:23:53,281
Speaker 3: very fortunate. You know, I came through beaten up, black

462
00:23:53,321 --> 00:23:55,640
Speaker 3: and blue, but I got a stand up pass, which

463
00:23:55,681 --> 00:23:58,681
Speaker 3: meant everything. And that's what PEA Company was all about.

464
00:23:59,001 --> 00:24:01,281
Speaker 3: And then once I'd done that, I got put forward

465
00:24:01,281 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 3: for a Royal Military Academy at Sandhurst. And again this

466
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 3: is not this is a boast, That's not why I'm

467
00:24:06,481 --> 00:24:09,160
Speaker 3: telling the story. That it's a journey that I went on.

468
00:24:09,281 --> 00:24:11,961
Speaker 3: And by going to Sandhurst, it was again a voluntary

469
00:24:11,961 --> 00:24:14,721
Speaker 3: agreement that I would go, and I learned more about

470
00:24:14,761 --> 00:24:17,281
Speaker 3: the sort of leadership aspects and what was at stake,

471
00:24:17,921 --> 00:24:21,640
Speaker 3: and I learned to conduct myself as a platoon commander

472
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 3: because they pretty much test you on the model of

473
00:24:25,561 --> 00:24:28,081
Speaker 3: one man. A junior officer will lead a thirty man

474
00:24:28,201 --> 00:24:31,321
Speaker 3: platoon and you rotate in positions. But that's what they're

475
00:24:31,360 --> 00:24:34,721
Speaker 3: ultimately testing you on. Can you run a platoon, can

476
00:24:34,761 --> 00:24:37,360
Speaker 3: you lead from the front, can you lead by example,

477
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 3: and if you're making decisions on the ground that is

478
00:24:40,521 --> 00:24:42,801
Speaker 3: going to affect the movement and the journey of the

479
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,721
Speaker 3: squad or the platoon. And if you make mistakes, and

480
00:24:46,801 --> 00:24:50,400
Speaker 3: you will during testing and during your time at Sandhurst,

481
00:24:51,120 --> 00:24:53,641
Speaker 3: but will you kind of have the integrity to own

482
00:24:53,761 --> 00:24:57,481
Speaker 3: up for those mistakes, and will you learn from those mistakes,

483
00:24:58,120 --> 00:25:01,241
Speaker 3: and will you be sort of on the level and

484
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:03,961
Speaker 3: be sort of true to yourself and again have that integrity.

485
00:25:04,001 --> 00:25:06,160
Speaker 3: So that's what the process is all about. And I

486
00:25:06,201 --> 00:25:09,521
Speaker 3: made mistakes. We all did, and you know, you don't

487
00:25:09,561 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 3: think you're going to come through successfully necessarily. But I

488
00:25:13,481 --> 00:25:15,400
Speaker 3: went through the process as a reservist, so it was

489
00:25:15,441 --> 00:25:17,360
Speaker 3: pretty full on. I didn't really get much sleep for

490
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,241
Speaker 3: about a month, and again I surprised myself. I came

491
00:25:20,321 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 3: through Royal Military Academy with the pass and the commissioning parade,

492
00:25:24,360 --> 00:25:25,641
Speaker 3: and then I was a sort of a one pit

493
00:25:25,761 --> 00:25:29,241
Speaker 3: wonder and a young sort of lieutenant and then I

494
00:25:29,321 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 3: pretty much exhausted what was on offer with the original unit.

495
00:25:33,041 --> 00:25:37,481
Speaker 3: So the Army journey then took me finally with an

496
00:25:37,521 --> 00:25:40,441
Speaker 3: offer that I had to trial for UK Special Forces

497
00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:44,561
Speaker 3: from my original commanding officer at Cambridge, and he said

498
00:25:44,561 --> 00:25:46,921
Speaker 3: to me, you know, we think you'd be a good candidate.

499
00:25:46,961 --> 00:25:49,640
Speaker 3: What do you think? And I said, well, I said,

500
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,481
Speaker 3: what's the worst that can happen? I fail miserably and

501
00:25:52,521 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 3: I come home with my tail between my legs and listen,

502
00:25:55,721 --> 00:25:58,241
Speaker 3: it goes back to what I said, if you're prepared

503
00:25:58,281 --> 00:26:00,801
Speaker 3: to try at least and put your best foot forward

504
00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:03,400
Speaker 3: and not be afraid to take the chances, not be

505
00:26:03,441 --> 00:26:06,400
Speaker 3: afraid to take the risk, you never know, you might

506
00:26:06,521 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 3: just surprise yourself. So I did exactly that again. I

507
00:26:10,201 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 3: put myself forward for as a reservist. It was so

508
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,241
Speaker 3: it was a long road. It was a thirteen month

509
00:26:15,321 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 3: process with a one month pre selection and then a

510
00:26:18,961 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 3: six month sort of mountain phase followed by a six

511
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,761
Speaker 3: month sort of continuation or effectively weapons and tactics and

512
00:26:25,801 --> 00:26:29,121
Speaker 3: patrolling to learn what it is to come together as

513
00:26:29,120 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 3: a team and operate as a Special Forces kind of soldier. So,

514
00:26:34,561 --> 00:26:37,241
Speaker 3: just to break that down, the first month was all

515
00:26:37,281 --> 00:26:41,880
Speaker 3: about sort of basic awareness and map reading and navigation

516
00:26:42,681 --> 00:26:44,400
Speaker 3: and a bit of sort of survival and sort of

517
00:26:44,441 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 3: first day just so you can take care of the

518
00:26:46,801 --> 00:26:50,361
Speaker 3: nitty gritty, and then you do a six month Mountain

519
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,721
Speaker 3: phase which goes back to Wales, and it's a lot

520
00:26:53,761 --> 00:26:58,001
Speaker 3: of Brecon beacons and Black Mountain and you're very much

521
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 3: tested as an individual the majority of that. I mean,

522
00:27:00,521 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 3: you start off in small teams, but then before you

523
00:27:02,521 --> 00:27:05,001
Speaker 3: know it, you're on your own, and if you can

524
00:27:05,281 --> 00:27:07,721
Speaker 3: it as an individual, that's kind of what they're looking for.

525
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,401
Speaker 3: So you have to have the confidence to navigate from

526
00:27:10,441 --> 00:27:13,281
Speaker 3: point A to B to C to D all those

527
00:27:13,321 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 3: different checkpoints through the mountain, and needless to say, the

528
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:21,521
Speaker 3: distances between checkpoints increase, so the overall march distance of

529
00:27:21,561 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 3: the day will increase, and the weight that you carry

530
00:27:25,321 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 3: will significantly increase. And the time limit is based on

531
00:27:30,761 --> 00:27:33,321
Speaker 3: pretty much an average kind of speed that you need

532
00:27:33,360 --> 00:27:36,761
Speaker 3: to maintain and to get through all those checkpoints and

533
00:27:36,801 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 3: indeed get through the days. So it's very much a

534
00:27:39,521 --> 00:27:42,681
Speaker 3: case of individual survival. And obviously in order to sustain

535
00:27:42,721 --> 00:27:45,361
Speaker 3: the pace and to meet the demands of what's being

536
00:27:45,360 --> 00:27:48,160
Speaker 3: asked of you through the navigational kind of checkpoints and

537
00:27:48,281 --> 00:27:53,160
Speaker 3: challenges along the way, you have to sustain your life

538
00:27:53,281 --> 00:27:56,881
Speaker 3: to quite a high level of function as a soldier.

539
00:27:57,001 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 3: So what I mean by that is the body doesn't

540
00:27:59,721 --> 00:28:02,360
Speaker 3: just perform. You've got to help it along the way.

541
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,721
Speaker 3: So you have to eat really well, you have to

542
00:28:04,801 --> 00:28:06,721
Speaker 3: high drake really well, and you have to take care

543
00:28:06,761 --> 00:28:09,001
Speaker 3: of your feet and your body in general. So you

544
00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:12,801
Speaker 3: end up with a lot of saws underfoot, blisters and saws.

545
00:28:13,241 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 3: You end up with a lot of perhaps saws and

546
00:28:15,201 --> 00:28:17,401
Speaker 3: welts on your back from the weight that you're carrying.

547
00:28:17,801 --> 00:28:19,561
Speaker 3: And again you've got to take care of all that

548
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 3: kind of business on a day to day kind of

549
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 3: almost what feels like an hour by hour sort of

550
00:28:24,681 --> 00:28:28,281
Speaker 3: review to sustain your healthy, your vitality, and your your

551
00:28:28,281 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 3: general sort of good performance and function, because you've got

552
00:28:31,001 --> 00:28:34,321
Speaker 3: to be moving like a freight train to maintain the

553
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:38,121
Speaker 3: level of performance required to get through the challenges of everything.

554
00:28:38,601 --> 00:28:40,561
Speaker 3: And again, it's not so much of a boast, it's

555
00:28:40,681 --> 00:28:43,321
Speaker 3: just the way that selection sort of pans out, and

556
00:28:43,361 --> 00:28:45,761
Speaker 3: if you're successful on each phase, you'll sort of move

557
00:28:45,801 --> 00:28:50,801
Speaker 3: forwards and again, through that personal belief and awareness, I

558
00:28:50,961 --> 00:28:54,681
Speaker 3: was then sort of pushed forwards, and then finally I

559
00:28:55,081 --> 00:28:57,001
Speaker 3: got myself to the kind of like the latter phase,

560
00:28:57,041 --> 00:29:00,321
Speaker 3: and we're part of a team that comes together and

561
00:29:01,321 --> 00:29:04,521
Speaker 3: you're bouncing off each other and you're learning, you know,

562
00:29:04,641 --> 00:29:06,841
Speaker 3: more about what it is to soldier as a team

563
00:29:06,921 --> 00:29:09,481
Speaker 3: and to then be part of the patrols. And they

564
00:29:09,521 --> 00:29:12,041
Speaker 3: then sort of start to introduce kind of different environments

565
00:29:12,081 --> 00:29:15,001
Speaker 3: and so on and so forth. And then I was

566
00:29:15,041 --> 00:29:18,361
Speaker 3: successful with the journey and I came through. There were

567
00:29:18,401 --> 00:29:21,081
Speaker 3: times when I did not believe and I thought, maybe

568
00:29:21,161 --> 00:29:22,881
Speaker 3: I'm going to need to hang my boots up here

569
00:29:22,921 --> 00:29:24,681
Speaker 3: because I don't think I'm going to be able to

570
00:29:24,681 --> 00:29:27,281
Speaker 3: sort of keep going. But there was always something in

571
00:29:27,321 --> 00:29:30,161
Speaker 3: me that never allowed me to do that, and I

572
00:29:30,281 --> 00:29:32,081
Speaker 3: was like a glutton for punishment and I'd kind of

573
00:29:32,081 --> 00:29:34,841
Speaker 3: go back for more. And by holding on, that was

574
00:29:34,881 --> 00:29:38,001
Speaker 3: what I wanted to really mention, was that by holding on,

575
00:29:38,721 --> 00:29:42,401
Speaker 3: I was able to surprise myself and do exactly that

576
00:29:42,881 --> 00:29:46,081
Speaker 3: and just hold on. And sometimes you just need to

577
00:29:46,161 --> 00:29:48,601
Speaker 3: hold on at all costs, no matter what the price,

578
00:29:48,681 --> 00:29:51,521
Speaker 3: no matter what you're up against. You just really really

579
00:29:51,561 --> 00:29:53,881
Speaker 3: need to have that self belief and hold on. And

580
00:29:54,361 --> 00:29:57,081
Speaker 3: as difficult as it was at times, because I remember,

581
00:29:57,161 --> 00:29:59,761
Speaker 3: you know, just a quick sort of example, but you know,

582
00:29:59,841 --> 00:30:03,001
Speaker 3: I'd be feeling black and blue once again, I'd be

583
00:30:03,041 --> 00:30:08,001
Speaker 3: feeling so beaten up sort of sleep deprived, so malnourished

584
00:30:08,881 --> 00:30:10,761
Speaker 3: that you just don't feel like you can go on.

585
00:30:10,801 --> 00:30:13,121
Speaker 3: You know, you lose like a good chunk of your

586
00:30:13,121 --> 00:30:15,721
Speaker 3: body weight because your body's always moving at such a

587
00:30:15,801 --> 00:30:19,321
Speaker 3: high tempo and you're carrying ridiculous weight over kind of

588
00:30:19,401 --> 00:30:22,841
Speaker 3: silly distances, and you get so run down in the process.

589
00:30:23,641 --> 00:30:25,321
Speaker 3: You feel like giving up. You don't feel like you

590
00:30:25,361 --> 00:30:26,881
Speaker 3: can you can do it, You don't feel like you

591
00:30:26,921 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 3: want to go on, and mentally you feel so degraded.

592
00:30:30,761 --> 00:30:34,921
Speaker 3: But if you have that inner sort of sentiment that

593
00:30:35,001 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 3: in a will and that in a belief to to

594
00:30:37,881 --> 00:30:40,401
Speaker 3: just keep going, to just keep putting one foot in

595
00:30:40,401 --> 00:30:43,001
Speaker 3: front of the other, to just keep up this sort

596
00:30:43,001 --> 00:30:46,561
Speaker 3: of what feels like the pretense of breathing and consuming,

597
00:30:46,601 --> 00:30:50,001
Speaker 3: you know, eating, hydrating, you can sustain a level of

598
00:30:50,001 --> 00:30:52,481
Speaker 3: performance that's going to come good and get you through

599
00:30:52,921 --> 00:30:56,041
Speaker 3: what's being asked of you. And yeah, that was the

600
00:30:56,161 --> 00:30:59,121
Speaker 3: essence of what it was through the journey of my

601
00:30:59,201 --> 00:31:03,041
Speaker 3: early years of Special Forces. And then what I would

602
00:31:03,161 --> 00:31:05,961
Speaker 3: like to sort of think that I took forward from

603
00:31:06,001 --> 00:31:10,521
Speaker 3: that little did I know, was that level of belief,

604
00:31:10,721 --> 00:31:15,041
Speaker 3: that level of will and the hunger, and that was

605
00:31:15,081 --> 00:31:20,801
Speaker 3: what I carried forwards that individual personal hunger, so it's

606
00:31:20,841 --> 00:31:24,041
Speaker 3: probably worth mentioning. And it goes without saying that I

607
00:31:24,161 --> 00:31:29,361
Speaker 3: sustained a life changing accident in the summer of two

608
00:31:29,441 --> 00:31:32,361
Speaker 3: thousand and seven. So all together, by that stage, i'd

609
00:31:32,361 --> 00:31:35,681
Speaker 3: been on an eight year military journey with the two

610
00:31:35,801 --> 00:31:38,681
Speaker 3: units that I described, and I had a personal ambition

611
00:31:38,801 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 3: to learn to fly a light aircraft. And for the record,

612
00:31:41,721 --> 00:31:44,801
Speaker 3: this wasn't a military duty. This was a personal endeavor.

613
00:31:45,041 --> 00:31:47,561
Speaker 3: And I took myself off to Florida and I was

614
00:31:47,601 --> 00:31:50,081
Speaker 3: interested to learn to fly a light aircraft.

615
00:31:50,361 --> 00:31:52,001
Speaker 1: Was that just to be a hobby? Was it just

616
00:31:52,001 --> 00:31:53,161
Speaker 1: to be a hobby that you want to leave?

617
00:31:53,161 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 3: It kind of was, But I was considering, you know,

618
00:31:55,761 --> 00:31:59,361
Speaker 3: the process of becoming a pilot, not just a private pilot,

619
00:31:59,361 --> 00:32:01,641
Speaker 3: but a commercial pilot as well. I'd also considered that,

620
00:32:01,841 --> 00:32:03,961
Speaker 3: and that was in as part of the game plan.

621
00:32:04,241 --> 00:32:09,761
Speaker 3: Obviously there are steps to take accordingly. So again i'd

622
00:32:09,761 --> 00:32:11,561
Speaker 3: sort of mapped out that journey in my mind and

623
00:32:11,601 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 3: what the ambition was and how that might present. You know,

624
00:32:15,081 --> 00:32:16,761
Speaker 3: you probably picked up on the fact that I wasn't

625
00:32:16,801 --> 00:32:19,441
Speaker 3: a guy that was just going to talk the talk.

626
00:32:19,561 --> 00:32:21,041
Speaker 3: I was a guy that liked to sort of walk

627
00:32:21,081 --> 00:32:23,921
Speaker 3: the walk in my own mindset, and everything I did

628
00:32:23,961 --> 00:32:26,561
Speaker 3: exactly that. I took myself off to Florida. I got

629
00:32:26,641 --> 00:32:29,321
Speaker 3: the visa from the US Embassy and off I went.

630
00:32:29,641 --> 00:32:32,761
Speaker 3: And I chose Florida because of great weather system, good

631
00:32:33,001 --> 00:32:37,841
Speaker 3: meteorological weather conditions, obviously the warmth of the chances that

632
00:32:37,841 --> 00:32:39,761
Speaker 3: I was going to fulfill the flying training within a

633
00:32:40,601 --> 00:32:44,441
Speaker 3: relatively limited time frame that I had. Whereas I considered

634
00:32:44,481 --> 00:32:46,761
Speaker 3: doing the training in Europe, obviously the weather was a

635
00:32:46,761 --> 00:32:50,081
Speaker 3: bit more hit and miss, especially in the UK. And

636
00:32:50,401 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 3: it worked out, and I went to Florida. I was

637
00:32:52,241 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 3: like one month into a full time flying training program.

638
00:32:57,041 --> 00:32:59,121
Speaker 3: Everything was going very well, and I was now pilot

639
00:32:59,241 --> 00:33:03,921
Speaker 3: in command, so flying solo without the instructors. Now I've

640
00:33:03,921 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 3: been solo for a run to eight days, and this

641
00:33:07,281 --> 00:33:10,281
Speaker 3: one particular day had an engine fire at altitude and

642
00:33:10,361 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 3: the fire that I noticed externally flared up from the

643
00:33:13,481 --> 00:33:16,801
Speaker 3: engine sort of compartment. It was billowing out. It then

644
00:33:17,161 --> 00:33:21,801
Speaker 3: entered the cockpit internally over one thousand feet indicated, and

645
00:33:21,841 --> 00:33:24,321
Speaker 3: it started to build up within the lower regions of

646
00:33:24,361 --> 00:33:24,881
Speaker 3: the cockpit.

647
00:33:24,921 --> 00:33:25,881
Speaker 1: Do you know how it started?

648
00:33:26,921 --> 00:33:30,401
Speaker 3: My suspicion that it was It was oil something within

649
00:33:30,401 --> 00:33:33,041
Speaker 3: the engine manifold system, but I can't be sure, but

650
00:33:33,121 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 3: I suspect that it was oil. And it was a

651
00:33:35,481 --> 00:33:39,681
Speaker 3: slow progressive build up within the cockpit now, and it

652
00:33:39,761 --> 00:33:41,561
Speaker 3: was building up from where my feet were operating on

653
00:33:41,561 --> 00:33:44,361
Speaker 3: the rodder pedals. It was building up around me. And

654
00:33:44,441 --> 00:33:48,401
Speaker 3: as I was gliding in, I was thinking to myself initially,

655
00:33:48,441 --> 00:33:50,521
Speaker 3: am I going to go for a runway and land

656
00:33:50,521 --> 00:33:54,041
Speaker 3: it in the conventional sense or what are my alternatives?

657
00:33:54,601 --> 00:33:58,041
Speaker 3: And I actually came up with a decision to veer

658
00:33:58,081 --> 00:34:02,281
Speaker 3: away from the concrete runway in the distance below, because

659
00:34:02,561 --> 00:34:04,801
Speaker 3: the fire was building up so rapidly. It was around

660
00:34:04,801 --> 00:34:07,401
Speaker 3: about mid chest height. As I dropped half the height,

661
00:34:07,721 --> 00:34:10,361
Speaker 3: so I'm now about five hundred feet, the fire was

662
00:34:10,361 --> 00:34:13,041
Speaker 3: about belly height within the chamber of the cockpit, and

663
00:34:13,081 --> 00:34:16,401
Speaker 3: I had to make a decision. So I actually chose

664
00:34:16,481 --> 00:34:18,801
Speaker 3: to steer the aircraft a few degrees to my left,

665
00:34:19,401 --> 00:34:23,081
Speaker 3: aiming towards a stretch of grass in the near distance.

666
00:34:23,681 --> 00:34:26,561
Speaker 3: And the reason I did that to set myself up

667
00:34:26,601 --> 00:34:29,601
Speaker 3: for an earlier escape from the cockpit of the aircraft.

668
00:34:30,081 --> 00:34:33,121
Speaker 3: So in doing so, in steering away, I then followed

669
00:34:33,121 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 3: emergency protocol. I turned the key to the ignition off.

670
00:34:36,601 --> 00:34:39,441
Speaker 3: I turned the control so the red switches, Magneto's alphon,

671
00:34:39,521 --> 00:34:45,361
Speaker 3: Bravo off, master switch, lights, strobes, and fuel pump everything

672
00:34:46,041 --> 00:34:49,921
Speaker 3: off in sequence quite a low level. I removed my headset.

673
00:34:50,161 --> 00:34:54,161
Speaker 3: Communications with air traffic control was futile, so I sort

674
00:34:54,161 --> 00:34:58,361
Speaker 3: of bins the communication aspects and I was no longer communicating.

675
00:34:58,441 --> 00:35:02,361
Speaker 3: Removed the headset, unbuckled my three point harness over the

676
00:35:02,361 --> 00:35:05,921
Speaker 3: waist and across the shoulders, and opened my left hand

677
00:35:05,921 --> 00:35:11,201
Speaker 3: canopy door, and in the glide, I visually assessed it

678
00:35:11,241 --> 00:35:15,881
Speaker 3: looking forward, looking through the left and right window canopy

679
00:35:15,961 --> 00:35:19,841
Speaker 3: and from fifty feet forty feet, thirty feet and approximately

680
00:35:19,881 --> 00:35:24,401
Speaker 3: twenty feet, judging it purely by eye, I managed to

681
00:35:24,481 --> 00:35:27,761
Speaker 3: clamber onto the seat. I'd already opened the left hand

682
00:35:27,801 --> 00:35:31,321
Speaker 3: door to the vertical position, so clambered from the seat

683
00:35:31,521 --> 00:35:35,161
Speaker 3: out onto the left wing, approximately twenty feet above the ground,

684
00:35:35,801 --> 00:35:37,761
Speaker 3: and I managed to get myself into a sort of

685
00:35:37,841 --> 00:35:40,681
Speaker 3: a good old fashioned sort of exit position on the wing,

686
00:35:41,201 --> 00:35:44,441
Speaker 3: so hands above my head in prayer position, feet in

687
00:35:44,521 --> 00:35:48,601
Speaker 3: these together as I leapt and took a giant stride

688
00:35:48,681 --> 00:35:50,401
Speaker 3: leap from the trailing edge of the back of the

689
00:35:50,481 --> 00:35:53,481
Speaker 3: left wing of the aircraft. So I estimate that she

690
00:35:53,601 --> 00:35:55,761
Speaker 3: was still dropping out. And I estimate that I jumped

691
00:35:55,761 --> 00:35:59,121
Speaker 3: from a height of about fifteen feet above the ground,

692
00:36:00,001 --> 00:36:03,761
Speaker 3: and I was probably still running in at about thirty knots,

693
00:36:04,281 --> 00:36:06,841
Speaker 3: so probably thirty three thirty four miles an hour, fifteen

694
00:36:06,881 --> 00:36:09,281
Speaker 3: feet above the ground. When I took that jump, I

695
00:36:09,481 --> 00:36:13,201
Speaker 3: landed feet in these together hands above my head in

696
00:36:13,281 --> 00:36:17,401
Speaker 3: the long grass. I landed like a sacris buds. I

697
00:36:17,481 --> 00:36:22,281
Speaker 3: thrust forwards, and having landed on my feet, I thrust

698
00:36:22,281 --> 00:36:25,961
Speaker 3: forward face planted my head and my face against the grass.

699
00:36:26,761 --> 00:36:29,721
Speaker 3: Soft ground, but relatively sharp grass because it was Florida,

700
00:36:29,761 --> 00:36:33,241
Speaker 3: it was tropical grass. I had a bilateral nasal fracture,

701
00:36:33,841 --> 00:36:37,721
Speaker 3: superorbital eye socket fractures. I tore through the right side

702
00:36:37,721 --> 00:36:41,521
Speaker 3: of my nose, through the ala of my lip, all

703
00:36:41,561 --> 00:36:45,281
Speaker 3: the way through here. My left index finger, you can

704
00:36:45,361 --> 00:36:49,881
Speaker 3: just see there on camera, hyper extended and fractured two ribs,

705
00:36:50,841 --> 00:36:57,721
Speaker 3: collar bone fractured internally in the torso area. I ruptured

706
00:36:57,721 --> 00:37:01,641
Speaker 3: my large intestine, my colon, and I lacerated my liver

707
00:37:01,801 --> 00:37:06,081
Speaker 3: internally from that jump. I also had not just the

708
00:37:06,081 --> 00:37:10,721
Speaker 3: fractures that I described for the internal injuries, but I

709
00:37:10,921 --> 00:37:15,881
Speaker 3: also was sixty three percent third and fourth degree burn

710
00:37:17,201 --> 00:37:21,721
Speaker 3: over sixty three percent of total body surface area. So

711
00:37:21,801 --> 00:37:26,561
Speaker 3: I was a massive burn. And that in itself was

712
00:37:26,601 --> 00:37:27,801
Speaker 3: the life changing aspect.

713
00:37:28,921 --> 00:37:31,081
Speaker 2: When you said, you're in the cockpit of the plane

714
00:37:31,801 --> 00:37:35,321
Speaker 2: and it's now up to your what waist? The fires

715
00:37:35,361 --> 00:37:39,281
Speaker 2: up to your waist? Yeah, yeah, how are you actually

716
00:37:39,321 --> 00:37:43,201
Speaker 2: controlling the plane from that calor heat?

717
00:37:43,641 --> 00:37:44,721
Speaker 1: How the hell are you doing that?

718
00:37:45,641 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 3: Because there was some there was a level of through

719
00:37:47,601 --> 00:37:50,681
Speaker 3: draft through the cockpit, so there was ventilation ducts that

720
00:37:50,761 --> 00:37:54,641
Speaker 3: were open on the dashboard, and so there was some

721
00:37:54,721 --> 00:37:57,441
Speaker 3: positive through draft being put air being pulled in in

722
00:37:57,481 --> 00:38:00,321
Speaker 3: other words, yeah, and air being drawn from the cockpit.

723
00:38:00,921 --> 00:38:03,321
Speaker 3: Now that was good because it kept me somewhat cool

724
00:38:03,401 --> 00:38:06,281
Speaker 3: even though I was on fire from the lower reaches.

725
00:38:06,961 --> 00:38:11,241
Speaker 3: But the burn started relatively superficially for me, and it

726
00:38:11,281 --> 00:38:13,281
Speaker 3: was being drawn, like I said, because of the slight

727
00:38:13,361 --> 00:38:16,161
Speaker 3: through draft and the slight air coming through the cockpit.

728
00:38:16,841 --> 00:38:19,681
Speaker 3: That was good from the cooling, but bad because it

729
00:38:19,761 --> 00:38:22,961
Speaker 3: was feeding the flame within the cockpit. If you can

730
00:38:23,001 --> 00:38:24,761
Speaker 3: sort of picture that, if you can understand that.

731
00:38:25,361 --> 00:38:29,121
Speaker 2: I can understand that, But I'm trying to fathom the

732
00:38:29,161 --> 00:38:30,401
Speaker 2: pain that you're going through.

733
00:38:30,921 --> 00:38:33,321
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't actually feel too much pain within the

734
00:38:33,321 --> 00:38:37,281
Speaker 3: cockpit because I was probably literally pumped on adrenaline having

735
00:38:37,321 --> 00:38:39,601
Speaker 3: to deal with the situation, having to think on my feet.

736
00:38:39,721 --> 00:38:42,321
Speaker 3: So i sat there in the left hand seat of

737
00:38:42,401 --> 00:38:45,841
Speaker 3: the two seater cockpit of the light aircraft, and I've

738
00:38:45,881 --> 00:38:48,241
Speaker 3: got my left handle the control stick between my knees

739
00:38:48,641 --> 00:38:50,401
Speaker 3: and my right hand on the throttle in the center

740
00:38:50,441 --> 00:38:54,641
Speaker 3: column to control the actual control and the power of

741
00:38:54,641 --> 00:38:58,641
Speaker 3: the aircraft. And like I say, I was on fire,

742
00:38:58,641 --> 00:39:01,641
Speaker 3: but I wasn't really feeling it too badly. Adrenaline was

743
00:39:01,641 --> 00:39:06,201
Speaker 3: probably numbing that down, no doubt about it. That one

744
00:39:06,281 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 3: thing is worth mentioning that when I got on the wing,

745
00:39:09,561 --> 00:39:13,761
Speaker 3: momentarily stood on the left hand wing, turned my body

746
00:39:13,801 --> 00:39:17,201
Speaker 3: to the left, and was presented by the backwash of

747
00:39:17,281 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 3: the propeller all the way down. My right hand side

748
00:39:19,641 --> 00:39:25,241
Speaker 3: was fanning of the flames. Now that wasn't good because

749
00:39:25,281 --> 00:39:26,921
Speaker 3: if you look on the right hand side, I lost

750
00:39:27,121 --> 00:39:31,321
Speaker 3: obviously significant hair and scarring. That was how it happened.

751
00:39:31,321 --> 00:39:34,521
Speaker 3: So I turned to the left and I got the

752
00:39:34,521 --> 00:39:37,721
Speaker 3: backwash of the prop which fanned me. So this was

753
00:39:37,761 --> 00:39:43,201
Speaker 3: windward side, and on the leeward side it's somewhat protected. Bizarrely,

754
00:39:43,241 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 3: I still kind of kept the hair on that sort

755
00:39:45,441 --> 00:39:47,801
Speaker 3: of side of my scalp. So the right side of

756
00:39:47,801 --> 00:39:53,081
Speaker 3: my body was absolutely mullard and very much devastated by

757
00:39:53,121 --> 00:39:57,521
Speaker 3: the fire. And it wasn't until I jumped, landed in

758
00:39:57,561 --> 00:40:00,721
Speaker 3: the long grass, rolled around and smothered the flame was

759
00:40:00,761 --> 00:40:03,601
Speaker 3: when the pain actually hit me like a sledgehammer at

760
00:40:03,601 --> 00:40:06,121
Speaker 3: that point, and it was like a giant tsunami of

761
00:40:06,161 --> 00:40:10,201
Speaker 3: pain that rushed over me. And I waited in the

762
00:40:10,241 --> 00:40:13,281
Speaker 3: long grass, and I was dying basically in a in

763
00:40:14,161 --> 00:40:17,681
Speaker 3: a nutshell, there's no other way that I can describe

764
00:40:17,681 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 3: it to you. I actually took my shoes and socks off,

765
00:40:22,921 --> 00:40:25,801
Speaker 3: and I tucked my socks and my laces with into

766
00:40:25,841 --> 00:40:28,641
Speaker 3: the shoes, all neatly, because I figured that, look, this

767
00:40:28,721 --> 00:40:30,441
Speaker 3: is one journey that I'm not going to need shoes

768
00:40:30,481 --> 00:40:33,481
Speaker 3: and socks for, so they were placed neatly by the

769
00:40:33,521 --> 00:40:35,161
Speaker 3: side of me. I guess that's the one element of

770
00:40:35,201 --> 00:40:38,241
Speaker 3: control that I had left. And I was a man

771
00:40:38,361 --> 00:40:40,361
Speaker 3: on the edge. I was a man on a thread,

772
00:40:40,801 --> 00:40:45,601
Speaker 3: and I was about to die, and somehow I hung on.

773
00:40:46,361 --> 00:40:47,681
Speaker 3: I don't know how the hell I did it, but

774
00:40:47,721 --> 00:40:51,081
Speaker 3: I hung on and I just kept holding on the

775
00:40:51,081 --> 00:40:54,561
Speaker 3: grim life that I had left, and I was blinded

776
00:40:54,601 --> 00:40:57,601
Speaker 3: by the fire because it burns to my cornea my

777
00:40:57,721 --> 00:41:00,201
Speaker 3: eyes at the time, So I had that going on,

778
00:41:00,681 --> 00:41:03,081
Speaker 3: and the massive burns that I described over sixty three

779
00:41:03,121 --> 00:41:06,001
Speaker 3: percent of total body surface area, and I, you know,

780
00:41:06,281 --> 00:41:08,681
Speaker 3: I was hurt in so many ways, like I mentioned,

781
00:41:08,721 --> 00:41:12,121
Speaker 3: the internal injuries, the multiple fractures from the jump, and

782
00:41:12,521 --> 00:41:15,321
Speaker 3: the total body surface area burns over sixty three percent.

783
00:41:16,001 --> 00:41:20,281
Speaker 3: The pain was off the charts, indescribable, and as I said,

784
00:41:20,321 --> 00:41:24,681
Speaker 3: I just kept holding on, and luckily for me, I

785
00:41:24,721 --> 00:41:27,081
Speaker 3: had an ambulance on scene, probably within about ten to

786
00:41:27,121 --> 00:41:27,961
Speaker 3: fifteen minutes.

787
00:41:28,201 --> 00:41:30,881
Speaker 1: So fifteen minutes you're in the grass by yourself.

788
00:41:31,521 --> 00:41:36,241
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. And it was probably realistically only because of

789
00:41:36,321 --> 00:41:39,361
Speaker 3: the guy that I was. Remember who I was at

790
00:41:39,401 --> 00:41:41,641
Speaker 3: the time. You know, I was a badged soldier with

791
00:41:41,761 --> 00:41:45,041
Speaker 3: UK Special Forces. I was in tremendous condition. I was

792
00:41:45,081 --> 00:41:47,561
Speaker 3: in great shape. And if I had not been in

793
00:41:47,561 --> 00:41:50,601
Speaker 3: that physical condition, no way that I was going to

794
00:41:50,681 --> 00:41:53,121
Speaker 3: make it. I mean, I was, you know, probably akin

795
00:41:53,281 --> 00:41:56,321
Speaker 3: to you know, world class footballder or a boxer or

796
00:41:56,321 --> 00:41:59,041
Speaker 3: something like that. I was in great physical condition and

797
00:41:59,401 --> 00:42:02,361
Speaker 3: that was what carried me in those early stages of

798
00:42:02,441 --> 00:42:05,801
Speaker 3: being burned. I didn't have long, and I still would

799
00:42:05,801 --> 00:42:09,721
Speaker 3: have died imminently, but the ambulance got to me very quickly,

800
00:42:10,161 --> 00:42:12,801
Speaker 3: within about fifteen minutes. They must have hit me with morphine,

801
00:42:12,801 --> 00:42:16,081
Speaker 3: because life was pretty damn good. I do remember that much.

802
00:42:16,121 --> 00:42:18,321
Speaker 3: But I also knew in my subconscious that it was

803
00:42:18,361 --> 00:42:22,481
Speaker 3: bad news and I really didn't have long. And the

804
00:42:22,521 --> 00:42:25,401
Speaker 3: irony also was that I'd also specialized as a patrol

805
00:42:25,481 --> 00:42:28,721
Speaker 3: medic with my role with UK Special Forces, so I

806
00:42:28,801 --> 00:42:32,641
Speaker 3: understood what I was up against with the large third

807
00:42:32,641 --> 00:42:35,521
Speaker 3: degree burns, which is indeed what I was suffering from,

808
00:42:36,121 --> 00:42:38,241
Speaker 3: and I knew in all likelihood I wasn't going to

809
00:42:38,321 --> 00:42:38,641
Speaker 3: make it.

810
00:42:39,681 --> 00:42:40,921
Speaker 1: What was hurting you more?

811
00:42:41,681 --> 00:42:41,761
Speaker 3: Like?

812
00:42:41,881 --> 00:42:44,281
Speaker 1: What was was it the internal injuries hurting you more?

813
00:42:44,401 --> 00:42:45,201
Speaker 1: Or was at the burns?

814
00:42:45,401 --> 00:42:48,721
Speaker 3: Really it was a combination, So it's a good question.

815
00:42:48,801 --> 00:42:51,321
Speaker 3: But I mean, I felt like I'd taken a punch

816
00:42:51,361 --> 00:42:53,881
Speaker 3: to the gut from like a heavyweight boxer, you know,

817
00:42:53,961 --> 00:42:57,161
Speaker 3: and he caught me off guard. Yeah, you know, That's

818
00:42:57,201 --> 00:43:00,361
Speaker 3: what I felt like I'd just taken And you know,

819
00:43:00,441 --> 00:43:03,321
Speaker 3: it felt like my insides were carved up. And then

820
00:43:03,361 --> 00:43:07,161
Speaker 3: the pain, the pain to practically my entire body, you know,

821
00:43:07,321 --> 00:43:12,841
Speaker 3: and scalp was was just indescribable. I knew how bad

822
00:43:12,881 --> 00:43:15,241
Speaker 3: it was. I knew that I'd just been fried from

823
00:43:15,281 --> 00:43:17,001
Speaker 3: the backwash of the propeller when I stood in the

824
00:43:17,001 --> 00:43:21,041
Speaker 3: wing momentarily. You know that that fanned the flame where

825
00:43:21,081 --> 00:43:23,521
Speaker 3: I was climbing out of the aircraft cockpit on fire.

826
00:43:24,081 --> 00:43:27,961
Speaker 3: Then I got subsequently fanned by the back of the propeller.

827
00:43:28,641 --> 00:43:33,601
Speaker 3: That was like walking through a giant blow torch for

828
00:43:33,801 --> 00:43:36,601
Speaker 3: several seconds before I actually managed to make the jump,

829
00:43:36,881 --> 00:43:38,521
Speaker 3: because remember I had to get on the wings, sort

830
00:43:38,521 --> 00:43:42,521
Speaker 3: of balance myself momentarily, then make the jump. It was

831
00:43:42,521 --> 00:43:46,401
Speaker 3: a hideous series of circumstances in order for me to

832
00:43:46,521 --> 00:43:49,921
Speaker 3: extricate myself from the cockpit and kind of get out clearly,

833
00:43:50,121 --> 00:43:53,521
Speaker 3: make the jump and land in the soft grass. You know. But,

834
00:43:53,601 --> 00:43:55,561
Speaker 3: like I said, a lot of damage in being done,

835
00:43:55,921 --> 00:43:59,041
Speaker 3: and I knew, shit, bust, my life was never going

836
00:43:59,081 --> 00:43:59,921
Speaker 3: to be the same again.

837
00:44:00,121 --> 00:44:03,121
Speaker 1: What made you climb onto the wing? Where that idea

838
00:44:03,201 --> 00:44:03,721
Speaker 1: come from?

839
00:44:04,121 --> 00:44:06,921
Speaker 3: Or was it just trying to well, yeah, it was

840
00:44:06,921 --> 00:44:09,841
Speaker 3: a survivor. It was a raw survival instinct as simple

841
00:44:09,841 --> 00:44:12,001
Speaker 3: as that. It was a way for me to exit

842
00:44:12,281 --> 00:44:16,521
Speaker 3: the aircraft quicker during flight and tried to land it

843
00:44:16,561 --> 00:44:19,161
Speaker 3: in the conventional sense on the concrete runway. I knew

844
00:44:19,241 --> 00:44:21,761
Speaker 3: i'd sort of made a hasty assessment in the air,

845
00:44:21,841 --> 00:44:25,401
Speaker 3: if you will. The likelihood was that fire was going

846
00:44:25,441 --> 00:44:28,681
Speaker 3: to overwhelm me within the cockpit. I mean, I'd already

847
00:44:28,681 --> 00:44:30,841
Speaker 3: realized that it had pretty much built up to about

848
00:44:30,881 --> 00:44:33,641
Speaker 3: half the height within the chamber. I dropped from one

849
00:44:33,641 --> 00:44:36,841
Speaker 3: thousand feet to five hundred feet above above the deck,

850
00:44:37,641 --> 00:44:40,041
Speaker 3: and the fire was already halfway up within the chamber

851
00:44:40,041 --> 00:44:42,401
Speaker 3: of the cockpit. It was a no brainer. By the

852
00:44:42,401 --> 00:44:46,681
Speaker 3: time I potentially touched down on the runway below, the

853
00:44:46,681 --> 00:44:49,481
Speaker 3: fire was going to be sort of completely overwhelming me

854
00:44:49,561 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 3: at sort of had height. So I figured the only

855
00:44:53,561 --> 00:44:55,321
Speaker 3: chance that I had was to try to exit the

856
00:44:55,361 --> 00:44:58,601
Speaker 3: aircraft cockpit quicker. And that's the decision that I made,

857
00:44:58,841 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 3: and that's what I did. But I only got away

858
00:45:01,521 --> 00:45:04,161
Speaker 3: with it in hindsight, by the skin of my teeth.

859
00:45:05,361 --> 00:45:08,241
Speaker 1: I say, is this a silly question? But was there

860
00:45:08,241 --> 00:45:11,201
Speaker 1: no fire extinguish it inside that copy? Yeah?

861
00:45:11,241 --> 00:45:13,881
Speaker 3: There was, Actually there was an extinguisher within the back

862
00:45:13,881 --> 00:45:16,121
Speaker 3: of the aircraft, but it was in an awkward position

863
00:45:16,161 --> 00:45:18,401
Speaker 3: and it wasn't easy to get to. And I was

864
00:45:18,441 --> 00:45:21,801
Speaker 3: also too low level, so I didn't want to risk

865
00:45:22,081 --> 00:45:26,121
Speaker 3: necessarily messing around and going for that, even though yes,

866
00:45:26,201 --> 00:45:29,281
Speaker 3: it would be the absolute obvious thing to do, but

867
00:45:30,441 --> 00:45:32,641
Speaker 3: it was something that I did not do. And I

868
00:45:32,721 --> 00:45:34,641
Speaker 3: was too too low level and too busy trying to

869
00:45:34,681 --> 00:45:38,201
Speaker 3: actually pilot the aircraft and trying to maintain control. So

870
00:45:38,321 --> 00:45:39,921
Speaker 3: that was a big part of it. And I remember

871
00:45:39,921 --> 00:45:41,961
Speaker 3: one of the US flight instructors always said to me,

872
00:45:42,201 --> 00:45:44,041
Speaker 3: and I quote, you know, if you've got a problem

873
00:45:44,241 --> 00:45:48,041
Speaker 3: above our flyer the down aircraft, and he was right

874
00:45:48,081 --> 00:45:50,361
Speaker 3: in essence, you know, you've got to do everything in

875
00:45:50,401 --> 00:45:53,881
Speaker 3: your power to maintain control. It would be easy to

876
00:45:53,921 --> 00:45:57,801
Speaker 3: perhaps get distracted, and when you're very, very low level,

877
00:45:57,961 --> 00:46:01,121
Speaker 3: you cannot afford not to be maintaining control and not

878
00:46:01,201 --> 00:46:03,601
Speaker 3: to be actually in command and flying the aircraft.

879
00:46:03,721 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, to me, sound like you weren't panicking. But were

880
00:46:07,441 --> 00:46:08,041
Speaker 1: you panicking?

881
00:46:09,081 --> 00:46:12,521
Speaker 3: Yeah? Initially I was. Initially I did panic, and I

882
00:46:12,561 --> 00:46:15,761
Speaker 3: did gravely consider, you know, what was going on and

883
00:46:15,961 --> 00:46:19,441
Speaker 3: firing the cockpit, and I definitely did panic. And I

884
00:46:19,521 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 3: was panicking. My mind was racing probably down to about

885
00:46:22,481 --> 00:46:25,361
Speaker 3: the five hundred feet point, and it was then when

886
00:46:25,361 --> 00:46:27,561
Speaker 3: I had that sort of light bulb moment and I thought,

887
00:46:27,921 --> 00:46:30,961
Speaker 3: you know what, there's an alternative here, and there's an

888
00:46:30,961 --> 00:46:33,601
Speaker 3: alternative for me to veer away and to set myself

889
00:46:33,681 --> 00:46:37,841
Speaker 3: up for the actual emergency protocol and do what I

890
00:46:37,881 --> 00:46:40,281
Speaker 3: did to sort of exit the aircraft and make the jump,

891
00:46:40,281 --> 00:46:42,481
Speaker 3: as it were. But there's no doubt about it that

892
00:46:42,561 --> 00:46:46,161
Speaker 3: in the early phases of that scenario I was definitely panicking,

893
00:46:46,681 --> 00:46:49,041
Speaker 3: but I did manage to get a grip on the situation.

894
00:46:49,601 --> 00:46:52,081
Speaker 3: And I would like to think that maybe harks back

895
00:46:52,121 --> 00:46:56,521
Speaker 3: to perhaps my time in service with both UK policing

896
00:46:56,601 --> 00:46:59,161
Speaker 3: and my time in the military as well, because I'd

897
00:46:59,201 --> 00:47:03,321
Speaker 3: been there many many times over and for example, I'd

898
00:47:03,401 --> 00:47:08,001
Speaker 3: stood in the back of many aircraft when I'm just

899
00:47:08,041 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 3: about to jump from perfectly serviceable aircraft, you know, I'm

900
00:47:11,481 --> 00:47:13,161
Speaker 3: just about to jump out the back of a Hercules

901
00:47:13,241 --> 00:47:16,121
Speaker 3: see one thirty or some other smaller aircraft that I

902
00:47:16,161 --> 00:47:19,441
Speaker 3: was tasked with jumping from as a military parachutist, And

903
00:47:19,481 --> 00:47:23,081
Speaker 3: there were many times when you're in fear of your

904
00:47:23,121 --> 00:47:26,841
Speaker 3: life about regarding the scenario and what's about to go down,

905
00:47:27,801 --> 00:47:29,281
Speaker 3: and you've got to think on your feet, and you've

906
00:47:29,321 --> 00:47:32,401
Speaker 3: got a series of drills to perform in order to

907
00:47:32,441 --> 00:47:35,881
Speaker 3: make it onto the ground as safely as possible. So

908
00:47:36,561 --> 00:47:42,921
Speaker 3: it's kind of controlled, orderly thought process to avert panic.

909
00:47:44,041 --> 00:47:47,721
Speaker 2: When did you actually realize how bad the injuries were?

910
00:47:48,121 --> 00:47:51,361
Speaker 2: Was it when you were inside hospital or you already knew.

911
00:47:52,841 --> 00:47:56,881
Speaker 3: I already knew, so when I'd landed in that long grass,

912
00:47:56,921 --> 00:48:00,441
Speaker 3: in that soft ground, it was an absolute no brainer.

913
00:48:00,481 --> 00:48:05,121
Speaker 3: It was completely obvious to me. I waited and I

914
00:48:05,121 --> 00:48:07,761
Speaker 3: heard the sirens in the distance, and the sirens grew louder,

915
00:48:07,761 --> 00:48:09,601
Speaker 3: and I knew that they were coming from me. And

916
00:48:09,641 --> 00:48:12,521
Speaker 3: the sirens definitely grew louder in sort of audible volume,

917
00:48:12,961 --> 00:48:15,881
Speaker 3: and I figured, this is me, this is me. I'm

918
00:48:15,921 --> 00:48:18,161
Speaker 3: done for. I think didn't think I was going to

919
00:48:18,161 --> 00:48:20,521
Speaker 3: be able to hold on for one and I knew

920
00:48:20,521 --> 00:48:23,801
Speaker 3: that I was burned practically from head to toe. I mean,

921
00:48:23,841 --> 00:48:26,721
Speaker 3: I didn't know the finer points of what the internal

922
00:48:27,041 --> 00:48:31,921
Speaker 3: injuries were, or indeed what the multiple fractures were and

923
00:48:31,921 --> 00:48:35,881
Speaker 3: what they represented, but I knew that I was gravely,

924
00:48:36,121 --> 00:48:40,201
Speaker 3: hideously burned. Over most of my body from head to toe,

925
00:48:41,001 --> 00:48:43,801
Speaker 3: and you know, you just know. I mean, if that

926
00:48:43,921 --> 00:48:45,881
Speaker 3: happens to you, you don't have to be a qualified

927
00:48:45,921 --> 00:48:49,081
Speaker 3: and trained patrol medic to understand what you're up against.

928
00:48:49,961 --> 00:48:52,041
Speaker 3: And like I said, I was hung. I was really

929
00:48:52,081 --> 00:48:54,641
Speaker 3: really hanging on. I had describe it, hence the title

930
00:48:54,641 --> 00:48:57,561
Speaker 3: of my book, Life on a Thread. I really was

931
00:48:57,601 --> 00:49:00,721
Speaker 3: a man on the edge, holding on and I genuinely

932
00:49:00,721 --> 00:49:02,641
Speaker 3: did not think I was going to survive that. And

933
00:49:02,681 --> 00:49:05,801
Speaker 3: how the hell I did survive I'll never know. I

934
00:49:05,841 --> 00:49:10,921
Speaker 3: put it down to three things. Quick thinking, amazing world

935
00:49:10,921 --> 00:49:17,081
Speaker 3: class emergency medical response, and incredible physical conditioning that I

936
00:49:17,161 --> 00:49:20,201
Speaker 3: was able to harness as a result of the man

937
00:49:20,201 --> 00:49:22,761
Speaker 3: that I was leading up until that moment in time.

938
00:49:23,481 --> 00:49:26,321
Speaker 1: Is it right that you had over fifty operations.

939
00:49:27,001 --> 00:49:31,081
Speaker 3: I've had sixty four surgical proceders under general anesthetic.

940
00:49:31,561 --> 00:49:32,241
Speaker 1: Wow.

941
00:49:32,441 --> 00:49:34,921
Speaker 3: Yeah, in my life and it's been what seventeen years

942
00:49:35,001 --> 00:49:38,241
Speaker 3: since that incident in two thousand and seven. Yeah, sixty

943
00:49:38,241 --> 00:49:42,401
Speaker 3: four jobs done, which is not good fun and it

944
00:49:42,441 --> 00:49:45,121
Speaker 3: means they put me to sleep sixty four times. But

945
00:49:45,201 --> 00:49:48,001
Speaker 3: the first six months I was drug induced in US

946
00:49:48,041 --> 00:49:52,281
Speaker 3: in private hospital in Florida and Incidentally, just to give

947
00:49:52,281 --> 00:49:55,721
Speaker 3: you an indication of how bad it was, the bill

948
00:49:55,961 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 3: in Florida came to just shy of two point eight

949
00:49:59,481 --> 00:50:03,921
Speaker 3: million US dollars WAD and that was over seventeen years ago,

950
00:50:05,521 --> 00:50:08,161
Speaker 3: So yeah, it was pretty serious. You can surmise from that,

951
00:50:08,321 --> 00:50:10,081
Speaker 3: I think that how bad it was.

952
00:50:10,841 --> 00:50:13,561
Speaker 2: Did you ever have a thought when you woke up

953
00:50:13,801 --> 00:50:17,881
Speaker 2: in that hospital bed that you wish you never saved

954
00:50:17,881 --> 00:50:18,921
Speaker 2: your life?

955
00:50:19,201 --> 00:50:19,601
Speaker 1: Yeah?

956
00:50:19,761 --> 00:50:21,921
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, many times. I mean I was in a

957
00:50:22,001 --> 00:50:25,121
Speaker 3: dark place for a long time. My friend am in

958
00:50:25,401 --> 00:50:28,161
Speaker 3: when I initially woke up in the hospital, because I

959
00:50:28,161 --> 00:50:30,241
Speaker 3: don't really remember too much of Florida because you're in

960
00:50:30,281 --> 00:50:32,041
Speaker 3: drug in juice comer. They're very very good at what

961
00:50:32,081 --> 00:50:35,201
Speaker 3: they do, and they keep you sort of mentally, sort

962
00:50:35,201 --> 00:50:38,761
Speaker 3: of stabilized almost because of the various kind of concoction

963
00:50:38,921 --> 00:50:41,561
Speaker 3: of analgesia and tetum in and stuff like that that

964
00:50:41,561 --> 00:50:44,281
Speaker 3: they keep you under with you're pretty much in a

965
00:50:44,281 --> 00:50:47,681
Speaker 3: pretty happy sort of status quo. But I would suggest

966
00:50:47,681 --> 00:50:50,241
Speaker 3: that when I woke up in Chelmsford Hospitals, that Burns

967
00:50:50,321 --> 00:50:55,041
Speaker 3: unit in Essex in England, six months later, the dawn

968
00:50:55,041 --> 00:50:59,761
Speaker 3: of realization of what had happened to me became instantly apparent,

969
00:51:00,321 --> 00:51:02,440
Speaker 3: and I was in a very dark place, like trying

970
00:51:02,441 --> 00:51:04,881
Speaker 3: to process everything. I mean, at first, I was absolutely

971
00:51:04,881 --> 00:51:07,721
Speaker 3: gobsmack that how I'd survived. I couldn't quite get my

972
00:51:07,721 --> 00:51:10,480
Speaker 3: head around the fact that I was still here. And then,

973
00:51:11,041 --> 00:51:13,601
Speaker 3: like I said, the reality kicked in and what I

974
00:51:13,641 --> 00:51:17,361
Speaker 3: was now facing. And trust me, you know, you don't

975
00:51:17,641 --> 00:51:22,081
Speaker 3: come back with glory from third degree burns, You really don't.

976
00:51:22,481 --> 00:51:26,681
Speaker 3: You crawl back from third degree burns. You absolutely crawl back,

977
00:51:27,401 --> 00:51:31,601
Speaker 3: hands and feet and fingertips and nails, you crawl back.

978
00:51:32,201 --> 00:51:36,161
Speaker 3: It's that much of a difficult journey. And I suppose

979
00:51:36,441 --> 00:51:41,201
Speaker 3: realistically it's my greatest achievement to date, because everything else

980
00:51:41,241 --> 00:51:43,961
Speaker 3: pales into insignificance. I talked a little bit about sas

981
00:51:43,961 --> 00:51:48,321
Speaker 3: training and selection and Pea Company and Samshurst and policing

982
00:51:48,361 --> 00:51:51,641
Speaker 3: and all the challenges and global travel, you know, everything,

983
00:51:52,121 --> 00:51:55,401
Speaker 3: all the challenges that I took on and everything that

984
00:51:55,441 --> 00:51:58,521
Speaker 3: I was grateful to have achieved in my version one

985
00:51:58,561 --> 00:52:02,001
Speaker 3: point zero in my old life. But and this is

986
00:52:02,041 --> 00:52:06,601
Speaker 3: a big butt, what I went through from August two

987
00:52:06,641 --> 00:52:10,681
Speaker 3: thousand and seven onwards, having been burned. Put everything else

988
00:52:10,761 --> 00:52:15,521
Speaker 3: into the shadows because the challenges that I faced having

989
00:52:15,561 --> 00:52:19,241
Speaker 3: to fight back from massive third degree burns over the

990
00:52:19,241 --> 00:52:24,921
Speaker 3: majority of my body were almost insurmountable. You know, I

991
00:52:24,961 --> 00:52:30,081
Speaker 3: had human donor skin, pig skin, synthetic skin, my own skin.

992
00:52:30,881 --> 00:52:33,801
Speaker 3: The operation tally went on, like I said, some sixty

993
00:52:33,881 --> 00:52:37,521
Speaker 3: four jobs that I had done under anesthetic. It is

994
00:52:37,601 --> 00:52:40,041
Speaker 3: really not for the faint hearted what I went through

995
00:52:40,881 --> 00:52:46,081
Speaker 3: indescribable amount of pain, trauma, suffering, and the challenge that

996
00:52:46,081 --> 00:52:48,721
Speaker 3: that imposes on the human being is like literally off

997
00:52:48,721 --> 00:52:51,601
Speaker 3: the charts. So that was my journey with you know,

998
00:52:51,761 --> 00:52:54,681
Speaker 3: the early two point zero Jamie Hull. That's what I

999
00:52:54,721 --> 00:52:57,641
Speaker 3: had to come through in the early phase of what

1000
00:52:57,761 --> 00:52:59,561
Speaker 3: it took to get me to where I am today.

1001
00:53:00,121 --> 00:53:02,441
Speaker 3: That was it, and to fight back from that was

1002
00:53:02,481 --> 00:53:05,201
Speaker 3: like the ultimate, like the greatest challenge that anything and

1003
00:53:05,241 --> 00:53:07,801
Speaker 3: being could face. The good news is that I went

1004
00:53:07,841 --> 00:53:13,440
Speaker 3: on to slowly and tentatively take new steps. I had

1005
00:53:13,441 --> 00:53:18,361
Speaker 3: to learn to walk, to feed, to write my name,

1006
00:53:18,441 --> 00:53:20,841
Speaker 3: you know, and learn to do all that all over again.

1007
00:53:20,961 --> 00:53:24,041
Speaker 3: These were the important things to get myself slowly and

1008
00:53:24,121 --> 00:53:28,121
Speaker 3: surely back on track. And then with that great will

1009
00:53:28,201 --> 00:53:32,201
Speaker 3: and determination, I was able to crawl back from the

1010
00:53:32,201 --> 00:53:36,961
Speaker 3: brink that I described, So you know, I was a

1011
00:53:37,041 --> 00:53:39,801
Speaker 3: man at the very lowest point of sort of humanity

1012
00:53:40,521 --> 00:53:43,481
Speaker 3: and fighting back at one stage in intensive care for

1013
00:53:43,521 --> 00:53:46,721
Speaker 3: six months, I was the remnants of a human being, sure,

1014
00:53:46,721 --> 00:53:49,401
Speaker 3: still alive, still breathing, but I was being introbated for

1015
00:53:50,321 --> 00:53:53,441
Speaker 3: to give you an indication and an understanding of what

1016
00:53:53,481 --> 00:53:56,441
Speaker 3: I went through, a machine was therefore breathing through a

1017
00:53:56,561 --> 00:54:00,761
Speaker 3: trachiostomy in the neck and keeping me alive. If my

1018
00:54:00,841 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 3: heart would stop, which it did on occasion, they would

1019
00:54:03,001 --> 00:54:07,881
Speaker 3: literally defribrillate me. In my art back online and regular function,

1020
00:54:08,441 --> 00:54:12,440
Speaker 3: I was on a whole concoction of drugs and analgesia

1021
00:54:12,481 --> 00:54:15,801
Speaker 3: for pain relief and antibiotics to stave off some of

1022
00:54:15,841 --> 00:54:19,681
Speaker 3: the gnihliest infections on the planet, from MRSSA to C.

1023
00:54:19,881 --> 00:54:26,361
Speaker 3: Difficile to MRSA. I was an adjunct of you know,

1024
00:54:27,361 --> 00:54:32,681
Speaker 3: tubes and leads leading to machines, multiple machines again that

1025
00:54:32,761 --> 00:54:35,721
Speaker 3: were keeping me alive on a daily basis for six months,

1026
00:54:36,201 --> 00:54:39,281
Speaker 3: and that was my life. And I almost don't know

1027
00:54:39,401 --> 00:54:41,921
Speaker 3: how I survived all of that. I really don't. And

1028
00:54:42,241 --> 00:54:44,001
Speaker 3: that was six months. That was six months that I

1029
00:54:44,041 --> 00:54:46,841
Speaker 3: was drug induced. So having taken those early steps to

1030
00:54:47,321 --> 00:54:51,480
Speaker 3: walk and feed, et cetera, and be version two point

1031
00:54:51,601 --> 00:54:56,761
Speaker 3: zero independent. It was really important that I tested myself

1032
00:54:56,801 --> 00:54:59,521
Speaker 3: and got myself back to a level of active health.

1033
00:55:00,441 --> 00:55:03,481
Speaker 3: So when I got out of the hospital, having initially

1034
00:55:03,521 --> 00:55:08,041
Speaker 3: learned to walk from the beds to the en suite

1035
00:55:08,121 --> 00:55:10,961
Speaker 3: bathroom and back, and then learn to walk to the

1036
00:55:11,041 --> 00:55:13,241
Speaker 3: nurses station and maybe do a loop at the nursing

1037
00:55:13,281 --> 00:55:16,561
Speaker 3: station and back in. And that was a long journey

1038
00:55:16,561 --> 00:55:19,561
Speaker 3: because I was in hospital for two years. But when

1039
00:55:19,561 --> 00:55:22,321
Speaker 3: I got home, I used to push the envelope on

1040
00:55:22,361 --> 00:55:25,681
Speaker 3: my walking, so I actually built myself up to walking

1041
00:55:25,881 --> 00:55:28,801
Speaker 3: within the local area. Then eventually I'm walking a little

1042
00:55:28,801 --> 00:55:32,481
Speaker 3: bit more around the block, then maybe a mile. Then eventually,

1043
00:55:32,521 --> 00:55:35,641
Speaker 3: by the end of the third year, I was walking

1044
00:55:35,761 --> 00:55:37,641
Speaker 3: eight miles per day, and if you do the maths

1045
00:55:37,641 --> 00:55:39,321
Speaker 3: on that, I was walking two and a half thousand

1046
00:55:39,321 --> 00:55:42,761
Speaker 3: miles per year. And this is how I stretched myself

1047
00:55:42,801 --> 00:55:46,121
Speaker 3: and pushed that envelope. And then by the end of

1048
00:55:46,161 --> 00:55:50,241
Speaker 3: the third year I developed enough confidence enough stamina to

1049
00:55:50,321 --> 00:55:54,761
Speaker 3: take on the London Marathon. So you know, the distance

1050
00:55:54,841 --> 00:55:58,281
Speaker 3: is twenty six point two miles forty two kilometers and

1051
00:55:58,401 --> 00:56:01,481
Speaker 3: I couldn't do it easily because by now I had

1052
00:56:01,521 --> 00:56:04,161
Speaker 3: bilateral foot drop from nerve damage to my lower limb

1053
00:56:04,721 --> 00:56:08,281
Speaker 3: from the surgery in America, which was permanent. But with

1054
00:56:08,401 --> 00:56:12,641
Speaker 3: that will, with the newfound confidence from all the walking

1055
00:56:12,681 --> 00:56:15,881
Speaker 3: that I'd done and building up my stamina, building up

1056
00:56:15,881 --> 00:56:19,161
Speaker 3: my strength, I managed to get around in eight hours

1057
00:56:19,201 --> 00:56:22,521
Speaker 3: thirty minutes, not a great time for a lot of people,

1058
00:56:22,601 --> 00:56:24,601
Speaker 3: but you know what, for me, that was like a

1059
00:56:24,721 --> 00:56:28,641
Speaker 3: major win because remember what I'd come back from, and

1060
00:56:28,681 --> 00:56:31,681
Speaker 3: then having done one marathon, I thought, you know what,

1061
00:56:31,721 --> 00:56:33,561
Speaker 3: I wonder if I could maybe improve upon that. So

1062
00:56:33,721 --> 00:56:35,321
Speaker 3: a friend of mine got me a place in New

1063
00:56:35,401 --> 00:56:38,161
Speaker 3: York and I did all five boroughs of New York

1064
00:56:38,201 --> 00:56:43,081
Speaker 3: from stan Island through Brooklyn, Queens Manhattan, then up around

1065
00:56:43,081 --> 00:56:45,881
Speaker 3: the Bronx, then back down to Manhattan. And I did

1066
00:56:45,881 --> 00:56:49,801
Speaker 3: that in seven zero seven, and again I developed a

1067
00:56:49,801 --> 00:56:52,801
Speaker 3: bit more confidence from that, and then I went back

1068
00:56:52,841 --> 00:56:55,161
Speaker 3: to London to do a third marathon, and after that

1069
00:56:55,201 --> 00:56:57,841
Speaker 3: I said never again. But I did manage to pull

1070
00:56:57,841 --> 00:57:00,801
Speaker 3: it out the bag and I did the marathon number

1071
00:57:00,801 --> 00:57:03,361
Speaker 3: three in London in six hours fifteen and that was

1072
00:57:03,401 --> 00:57:05,361
Speaker 3: my absolute best. Def I was even having to jog

1073
00:57:05,401 --> 00:57:07,321
Speaker 3: a little bit, but it was tough on my old

1074
00:57:07,401 --> 00:57:10,161
Speaker 3: legs because I lost a lot of muscle with the

1075
00:57:10,601 --> 00:57:13,241
Speaker 3: shin area especially. That was the fourth degree burn in

1076
00:57:13,281 --> 00:57:16,001
Speaker 3: America down to the bone, so a lot of surgery

1077
00:57:16,041 --> 00:57:19,681
Speaker 3: down there. So for me to do six fifteen on

1078
00:57:19,801 --> 00:57:23,601
Speaker 3: a marathon was absolutely incredible effort. After that, I focused

1079
00:57:23,601 --> 00:57:27,601
Speaker 3: on some bigger challenges. So I went to do Invictus

1080
00:57:27,601 --> 00:57:32,241
Speaker 3: Games in London. I was a track athlete cyclist doing

1081
00:57:32,361 --> 00:57:36,321
Speaker 3: the paloton sort of racing, and I got round the

1082
00:57:36,361 --> 00:57:40,321
Speaker 3: events and is in Evictors Games competitor and finisher. And

1083
00:57:40,361 --> 00:57:42,921
Speaker 3: then we did a team with the charity Help for Heroes.

1084
00:57:43,121 --> 00:57:45,401
Speaker 3: I was part of a selected eight man team to

1085
00:57:45,441 --> 00:57:48,841
Speaker 3: do Race Cross America across the USA. So this was

1086
00:57:48,841 --> 00:57:53,241
Speaker 3: a true story and Racecross America was a wonderful event

1087
00:57:53,241 --> 00:57:55,041
Speaker 3: that I did as part of an eight man weirded

1088
00:57:55,081 --> 00:57:59,241
Speaker 3: veteran team, and we did from the beach so ocean

1089
00:57:59,321 --> 00:58:04,041
Speaker 3: side San Diego in California all the way across to

1090
00:58:04,081 --> 00:58:07,001
Speaker 3: Annapolis in Marya Land. We covered I think thirty one

1091
00:58:07,081 --> 00:58:11,281
Speaker 3: hundred miles around five thousand kilometer and we did it

1092
00:58:11,321 --> 00:58:14,521
Speaker 3: in seven days, seven hours and about thirty eight minutes,

1093
00:58:15,601 --> 00:58:19,321
Speaker 3: so thirty one hundred miles. I think eleven states of

1094
00:58:19,361 --> 00:58:25,521
Speaker 3: the US, forty four counties, and three hundred and fifty

1095
00:58:25,561 --> 00:58:28,441
Speaker 3: individual US communities. We actually cycled all the way through

1096
00:58:29,241 --> 00:58:31,081
Speaker 3: to do that as part of an eight man wounded

1097
00:58:31,121 --> 00:58:34,321
Speaker 3: team of veterans, it meant a lot to all of us,

1098
00:58:34,361 --> 00:58:37,281
Speaker 3: you know. And again the confidence that we developed, all

1099
00:58:37,281 --> 00:58:39,721
Speaker 3: of us really as injured soldiers was a really proud

1100
00:58:39,721 --> 00:58:42,761
Speaker 3: moment for us, really, And so all in all, I

1101
00:58:42,921 --> 00:58:48,161
Speaker 3: felt that through that journey again the will, the determination,

1102
00:58:49,161 --> 00:58:52,561
Speaker 3: and the newfound confidence in myself is Jamie Hole versus

1103
00:58:52,601 --> 00:58:57,521
Speaker 3: two point zero was worth its weight in gold. And

1104
00:58:57,561 --> 00:59:00,601
Speaker 3: then some other quick examples that I went on to

1105
00:59:00,681 --> 00:59:04,441
Speaker 3: Summit Killimanjiro in Africa, which is the highest freestanding mountain,

1106
00:59:05,481 --> 00:59:12,921
Speaker 3: which is just shy of five thousand, nine hundred meters

1107
00:59:13,001 --> 00:59:16,001
Speaker 3: or so, it's just shy of six thousand meters. And

1108
00:59:16,041 --> 00:59:17,961
Speaker 3: that was a pretty big deal for me again with

1109
00:59:18,001 --> 00:59:20,841
Speaker 3: my legs and the loss of muscle. And I went

1110
00:59:20,881 --> 00:59:23,361
Speaker 3: on and retrained as a pilot, and I got a

1111
00:59:23,361 --> 00:59:24,041
Speaker 3: scholarship too.

1112
00:59:24,081 --> 00:59:26,761
Speaker 2: I was actually going to ask you that I was

1113
00:59:26,961 --> 00:59:28,841
Speaker 2: going to ask you that did you actually fly a

1114
00:59:28,841 --> 00:59:30,241
Speaker 2: plane after all this happened?

1115
00:59:30,681 --> 00:59:32,801
Speaker 3: Yeah, I did some flying with light aircraft in the

1116
00:59:32,921 --> 00:59:35,561
Speaker 3: UK and with some other work in Europe as well.

1117
00:59:36,321 --> 00:59:39,721
Speaker 3: But interestingly, I got a scholarship to fly hot air

1118
00:59:39,761 --> 00:59:42,761
Speaker 3: balloon and I did my training in Italy and then

1119
00:59:42,761 --> 00:59:45,721
Speaker 3: I went solo in the balloon as well, and eventually

1120
00:59:45,801 --> 00:59:48,201
Speaker 3: got my license from the Civil Aviation Authority here in

1121
00:59:48,241 --> 00:59:53,121
Speaker 3: the UK to fly balloon, which was quite an extraordinary process,

1122
00:59:53,201 --> 00:59:55,161
Speaker 3: you know, to pilot the hot air bloon, and I

1123
00:59:55,201 --> 00:59:57,961
Speaker 3: really enjoyed that a lot, and it was a bizarre thing,

1124
00:59:58,001 --> 01:00:02,001
Speaker 3: you know, to find myself at altitude solo. Again. Ironic

1125
01:00:02,081 --> 01:00:04,041
Speaker 3: was the fact that I had the burner like right

1126
01:00:04,081 --> 01:00:06,601
Speaker 3: there above my head. I'm thinking of myself. I mean,

1127
01:00:06,641 --> 01:00:09,881
Speaker 3: I've got to be pretty damn careful, especially this time around,

1128
01:00:09,921 --> 01:00:11,441
Speaker 3: so I'm sure as damn it don't want to burn

1129
01:00:11,441 --> 01:00:12,441
Speaker 3: the other side of my scalp.

1130
01:00:12,761 --> 01:00:13,641
Speaker 1: Oh my god.

1131
01:00:14,361 --> 01:00:16,921
Speaker 2: But the good thing about it is that you've pushed

1132
01:00:16,921 --> 01:00:20,081
Speaker 2: yourself after it and like a lot of people would

1133
01:00:20,081 --> 01:00:23,721
Speaker 2: have like gone through a hole and knocked themselves out

1134
01:00:23,721 --> 01:00:25,241
Speaker 2: of it, but you actually got yourself out of this

1135
01:00:25,321 --> 01:00:27,161
Speaker 2: hole and carried on with your life.

1136
01:00:27,841 --> 01:00:29,281
Speaker 3: Yeah, it meant a lot to me. And I mean

1137
01:00:29,321 --> 01:00:32,161
Speaker 3: I went on as well. I trained in the dive

1138
01:00:32,281 --> 01:00:36,681
Speaker 3: world to train with the British Sybacko Club as an instructor,

1139
01:00:36,721 --> 01:00:38,961
Speaker 3: and I even went on with PADDY, which is the

1140
01:00:38,961 --> 01:00:42,161
Speaker 3: Professional Association of Diving Instructors, probably the biggest agency in

1141
01:00:42,201 --> 01:00:45,521
Speaker 3: the world for sport diving, and I became a PADDY

1142
01:00:45,641 --> 01:00:49,161
Speaker 3: course director within that industry and I did my training

1143
01:00:49,201 --> 01:00:53,561
Speaker 3: for that and the course director assessments in Malaysia about

1144
01:00:53,561 --> 01:00:55,961
Speaker 3: six years ago. Now, I mean that was a journey

1145
01:00:55,961 --> 01:00:58,921
Speaker 3: in itself. I mean it's not an easy journey, as

1146
01:00:58,961 --> 01:01:01,521
Speaker 3: anyone will tell you that it goes for course director,

1147
01:01:02,401 --> 01:01:04,881
Speaker 3: but you know, it's just the moral of the story is, look,

1148
01:01:05,601 --> 01:01:08,561
Speaker 3: no matter what you're up against, you know, with personal

1149
01:01:09,041 --> 01:01:13,401
Speaker 3: belief and great will and determination, you can surprise yourself.

1150
01:01:13,441 --> 01:01:16,441
Speaker 3: And I think I'm sort of perhaps testimony to people

1151
01:01:16,601 --> 01:01:20,281
Speaker 3: in the sense that I can highlight my younger journey

1152
01:01:20,761 --> 01:01:23,041
Speaker 3: as a soldier and what I went through with the military, etc.

1153
01:01:24,001 --> 01:01:29,001
Speaker 3: To sort of showcase. Look, with these examples, believing in myself,

1154
01:01:29,081 --> 01:01:31,481
Speaker 3: I was able to achieve like the highest levels of

1155
01:01:31,601 --> 01:01:37,481
Speaker 3: British military journey and achievement, but also post injury, you know,

1156
01:01:37,481 --> 01:01:40,321
Speaker 3: I went on to achieve like some very senior endeavors

1157
01:01:40,841 --> 01:01:45,521
Speaker 3: with piloting with the sports events that I did, But

1158
01:01:45,761 --> 01:01:48,841
Speaker 3: you know, I also went on to retrain in my

1159
01:01:48,921 --> 01:01:53,081
Speaker 3: own sort of personal professional domain as a pilot, as

1160
01:01:53,121 --> 01:01:56,281
Speaker 3: a PODDI course director in dive industry, and as a

1161
01:01:56,281 --> 01:01:58,201
Speaker 3: mountain leader as well. I did that as well, and

1162
01:01:58,241 --> 01:02:00,041
Speaker 3: I went on to lead a lot of expeditions around

1163
01:02:00,081 --> 01:02:03,801
Speaker 3: the world for young teams. So you don't just have

1164
01:02:03,881 --> 01:02:06,281
Speaker 3: to sit back on your laurels, you know, don't just

1165
01:02:06,321 --> 01:02:09,641
Speaker 3: stay sat on the sofa. Doesn't matter what happens in life.

1166
01:02:09,681 --> 01:02:11,401
Speaker 3: You know, if you still believe in yourself, if you

1167
01:02:11,441 --> 01:02:13,561
Speaker 3: still want it, if you're still hungry for a process,

1168
01:02:14,321 --> 01:02:17,401
Speaker 3: you can get there. It's all about the belief. You

1169
01:02:17,441 --> 01:02:19,521
Speaker 3: have to want it, and the question is how much

1170
01:02:19,561 --> 01:02:21,841
Speaker 3: do you want something. If you want it, it's there

1171
01:02:21,841 --> 01:02:26,441
Speaker 3: for the taking. And remember this is no dress rehearsal life.

1172
01:02:27,161 --> 01:02:29,721
Speaker 3: It goes in pretty damn quick. You know, I'm just

1173
01:02:29,761 --> 01:02:33,321
Speaker 3: about to hit my big five O this year. We

1174
01:02:33,401 --> 01:02:35,681
Speaker 3: all know. It goes in pretty damn quick. You realize

1175
01:02:35,721 --> 01:02:38,481
Speaker 3: once you start getting to the pearly steaks of middle age,

1176
01:02:39,521 --> 01:02:42,841
Speaker 3: it's no dress rehearsal. And again, if you're hungry for

1177
01:02:42,881 --> 01:02:44,521
Speaker 3: a process, if you want it, go out there and

1178
01:02:44,521 --> 01:02:47,081
Speaker 3: grab it. Don't be afraid, don't be afraid to put

1179
01:02:47,121 --> 01:02:49,681
Speaker 3: your best foot forward. What's the worst thing that can

1180
01:02:49,721 --> 01:02:53,921
Speaker 3: happen is that you metaphorically fall on your face and

1181
01:02:54,001 --> 01:02:56,121
Speaker 3: you know you have to eat humble pie. You don't

1182
01:02:56,161 --> 01:02:57,921
Speaker 3: quite get there. You know you don't make the gray,

1183
01:02:57,961 --> 01:03:00,561
Speaker 3: you don't make the process. Guess what, Pick yourself up,

1184
01:03:00,641 --> 01:03:03,881
Speaker 3: dust yourself off, try again. Because where there's a will,

1185
01:03:03,921 --> 01:03:05,641
Speaker 3: there's a way, and if you want something badly enough,

1186
01:03:05,761 --> 01:03:07,721
Speaker 3: you can potentially achieve it.

1187
01:03:08,801 --> 01:03:14,881
Speaker 1: Well said. But you know what what, Jamie, you're very inspirational.

1188
01:03:15,521 --> 01:03:18,121
Speaker 3: Appreciate that, Neil, It's for kind of you to say, mate.

1189
01:03:18,161 --> 01:03:19,721
Speaker 3: But I mean, I guess I've just been trying to

1190
01:03:19,721 --> 01:03:22,281
Speaker 3: live my life. It's not being that I've necessarily trying

1191
01:03:22,281 --> 01:03:24,281
Speaker 3: to sort of collect medals or anything like that. It's

1192
01:03:24,321 --> 01:03:28,721
Speaker 3: just I guess ultimately I tried to just live my life,

1193
01:03:28,801 --> 01:03:30,601
Speaker 3: put the best foot forward. And I was never a

1194
01:03:30,641 --> 01:03:34,081
Speaker 3: guy that, like I mentioned, wanted to just talk the talk.

1195
01:03:34,121 --> 01:03:35,801
Speaker 3: I always wanted to get out there and live it

1196
01:03:36,041 --> 01:03:39,081
Speaker 3: and actually walk that walk and have those experiences and

1197
01:03:40,681 --> 01:03:44,481
Speaker 3: try to fulfill Really that's what it's all about. But

1198
01:03:44,561 --> 01:03:47,281
Speaker 3: I mean, if anyone's interested in the deeper narrative if

1199
01:03:47,321 --> 01:03:51,321
Speaker 3: you don't mind a shameful plug. You know, I definitely

1200
01:03:51,321 --> 01:03:54,041
Speaker 3: mentioned that I was lucky. I got published with Penguin

1201
01:03:54,281 --> 01:03:57,001
Speaker 3: a couple of years back with Penguin Books, and it's

1202
01:03:57,041 --> 01:04:02,041
Speaker 3: called Life on a Thread by Jamie Haller, and it's

1203
01:04:02,081 --> 01:04:04,881
Speaker 3: widely available on all sort of major booksellers and Amazon.

1204
01:04:05,361 --> 01:04:08,121
Speaker 3: And I've been lucky. I've should that far and wide

1205
01:04:08,201 --> 01:04:11,801
Speaker 3: to Australia and New Zealand and guys in the States

1206
01:04:11,801 --> 01:04:14,081
Speaker 3: and have been lucky that have received a lot of

1207
01:04:14,121 --> 01:04:16,561
Speaker 3: strong feedback from that. So yeah, thank.

1208
01:04:16,401 --> 01:04:18,801
Speaker 1: You Jamie for sharing me your story.

1209
01:04:18,921 --> 01:04:21,601
Speaker 2: And it's yea even even though it's been a long

1210
01:04:21,641 --> 01:04:23,521
Speaker 2: haul trying to get you on it, it's been well

1211
01:04:23,601 --> 01:04:27,281
Speaker 2: worth the wait. And now I know that you're working

1212
01:04:27,281 --> 01:04:29,041
Speaker 2: at the Bourbon, I wish I wish they've gone in

1213
01:04:29,041 --> 01:04:31,601
Speaker 2: the Bourbon now and see and seen you in your tongs.

1214
01:04:38,521 --> 01:04:38,561
Speaker 3: H