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Speaker 1: This here's a Fitz podcast.

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Speaker 2: This is a subject that a few of our listeners

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Speaker 2: have brought up with us, and if you're on social

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Speaker 2: media at the moment, you're probably getting this in your feeds.

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Speaker 2: But the word peptides, Now, when I think of peptides, well,

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Speaker 2: you know, the only time I've really heard of peptides

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Speaker 2: is in professional sport here in Australia with Essendon and Crinulla,

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Speaker 2: and you hear that it's obviously against the rules to

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Speaker 2: actually take peptides, but a lot of people are asking

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Speaker 2: what is it.

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Speaker 3: And how do you get it? Now?

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Speaker 2: It promises tanned, youthful skin, weight loss, bigger muscles, and

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of social media users that are dabbling

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Speaker 2: in peptides at the moment, but are they approved for

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Speaker 2: human use? We thought we'd talk about this, so we're

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Speaker 2: going to get some doctors on soon. But we've also

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Speaker 2: got a couple of influencers who are from the Gold Coast.

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Speaker 3: They're currently living in Bali.

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Speaker 2: Their names and Nicole and Simon, and they join us

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Speaker 2: whereabouts in Bali at the moment.

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Speaker 3: Are you guys all right? Semon? Yah?

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Speaker 4: Well, it looks very lovely.

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Speaker 5: Simon, Can I ask first up, So are you taking peptides?

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Speaker 6: I've taken an array of peptides.

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Speaker 5: Okay, So and do you know what you're taking? Like

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Speaker 5: what the peptides are?

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Speaker 6: Yes, so I understand they are research used, right, which

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Speaker 6: I classify myself as the research. So I'm currently taking

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Speaker 6: La tanto reditory TIEDE, g h K c U and

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Speaker 6: mott C right.

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Speaker 2: Okay, okay, So so when you when you talk about

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Speaker 2: people trialing on you, have you been approached or have

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Speaker 2: you put your hand up to do this or where.

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Speaker 3: Did you first come across it? The peptides, I.

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Speaker 6: Guess more so like curiosity. You know, obviously you hear

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Speaker 6: about them, and I thought, you know what, like, I'm

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Speaker 6: a very try it myself kind of person, so you know,

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Speaker 6: I don't really look at much of the you know,

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Speaker 6: interne and whatnot, just rather do it myself and then

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Speaker 6: duck my own research in that manner and so far

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Speaker 6: nothing but positive experience.

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Speaker 3: I'm loving it. Okay.

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Speaker 4: What are the benefits or what are you hoping to

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Speaker 4: get out of it?

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Speaker 6: So with malaana tan two, that's a peptide that will

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Speaker 6: uptake your melanine production, increase pigmentation, which will give you

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Speaker 6: a better ten in a much short amount of time.

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Speaker 6: GHKCU will uptake your collagen pathways which will give you

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Speaker 6: like a youthful looking skin, glowing effect, thicker hair. Mottesia

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Speaker 6: is a mitochondrial peptide which is a powerhouse of yourself,

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Speaker 6: which will give you more energy out of cellule level,

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Speaker 6: so a better performance uptake through the ATP system as well.

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Speaker 6: Read a true tied read a true tied julpy one

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Speaker 6: GIP and glucaghen receptor which will help with appetite suppression,

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Speaker 6: blood sugar levels, food noise, fat loss.

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Speaker 5: I think when you see the explosion of peptides and

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Speaker 5: steroids in this conversation around human growth, when there is

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Speaker 5: so much now available on the market and off the

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Speaker 5: market really is where a lot of them exists. My

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Speaker 5: concern is, like you talk about, right, a true tide

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Speaker 5: that one. I mean, it's not even FDA approved in

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Speaker 5: the US, It's not approved anywhere in the world, and

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Speaker 5: you normally in Australia for to find TGA approval here

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Speaker 5: it takes two years after the US. Doesn't that concern

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Speaker 5: you a bit that nowhere in the world has said

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Speaker 5: good to go with that one?

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Speaker 3: Guys.

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Speaker 6: So typically when you mean TJ approved, it means big

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Speaker 6: farmer can sell at a huge cost like ozembig you

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Speaker 6: can get that for maybe seven hundred dollars a month,

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Speaker 6: five hundreds a month at a pharmacy, but that only

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Speaker 6: cost about twenty dollars typically, right, Yeah, So when it

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Speaker 6: comes to peptides, right, don't get them mixed up. They're

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Speaker 6: not steroids. Peptides are amino acids, which creates signals in

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Speaker 6: your body which you already have, and we tell your

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Speaker 6: body to do more of a certain task.

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Speaker 3: Good ya. How do you sauce it? How do you

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Speaker 3: source it? Guys?

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Speaker 2: So is it illegally like, is it from overseas or

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Speaker 2: how do you get it?

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Speaker 7: So, because we were at the time, I can't remember

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Speaker 7: where first got it from, but when I started documenting

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Speaker 7: my journey, I ended up getting reached out by a

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Speaker 7: company Brenda, truly, they reached out to me and I

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Speaker 7: ended up we actually got our stuff from there now

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Speaker 7: as of I think July last year, and yeah, just

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Speaker 7: getting from there ever since.

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Speaker 5: So wait, what's that I mean? Is that a legal

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Speaker 5: company or is that black market? Because my understanding is

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Speaker 5: you can get on the dark.

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Speaker 7: Web well, I guess because they label everything as research

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Speaker 7: use only.

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Speaker 2: So okay, right, research And just before you go, guys,

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Speaker 2: do you think there is a danger And you guys

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Speaker 2: seem to be taking it in moderation, which is great,

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Speaker 2: but do you think that people could get addicted to this?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 6: I can see that there's more peptides out there that

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Speaker 6: have been researched and some that haven't been researched as much,

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Speaker 6: you know, and I guess the ones we are targeting

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Speaker 6: your growth, like IGF one l R three that's a

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Speaker 6: bit riskier.

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Speaker 7: You know.

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Speaker 6: There's more side effects to more advanced peptides which I

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Speaker 6: don't really care to try, you know, I just want

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Speaker 6: to go at ten, have clear skin and be shredded.

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Speaker 2: I do understand there's a lot of people out there

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Speaker 2: that do you know what, They look at their appearance

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Speaker 2: and they really want to change it. So in a

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Speaker 2: way I can understand. Guys, we really appreciate your time.

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Speaker 2: We're going to get a coup to doctors on next

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Speaker 2: but thank you so much, and enjoy the beautiful son

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Speaker 2: over there.

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Speaker 3: In BALI thank you a pleasure. God you guys, thanks,

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Speaker 3: thank you so much. By bye, We need to speak

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Speaker 3: to professionals.

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Speaker 2: We've got doctor Kieran Dang who is a general practitioner

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Speaker 2: and the chief medical officer at MOSH and Online Men's

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Speaker 2: Health Clinic, and also doctor Dominic Scheffner or Dominic Scheffner

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Speaker 2: is an orthopedic and trauma surgeon. He uses peptides at

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Speaker 2: his Sydney based clinic Biogenics.

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Speaker 3: Doctors. Welcome to the show, Thanks for coming.

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Speaker 1: On, pleasure to be here.

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Speaker 3: Thank you. Guys.

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Speaker 5: We've obviously encouraged a discussion around this because I think

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Speaker 5: it's a general public and especially with a surge of

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Speaker 5: coverage received on social media, we're fascinated by the topic.

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Speaker 5: So I might start with you, doctor Daying, I might ask,

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Speaker 5: from your understanding of the explode, is an interest in peptides,

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Speaker 5: human growth steroids.

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Speaker 3: I know it's a.

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Speaker 5: Very broad topic, but what are the major concerns that

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Speaker 5: you see regarding let's call it peptides.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so, firstly, peptides is a very broad term. Peptide

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Speaker 1: just means a short chain of for amino acids. And

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Speaker 1: there's natural peptides like insulin that's a natural one. There's

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Speaker 1: the medication peptides like with GOVI and ozembic. But what

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Speaker 1: we're talking about is the peptides that are unregulated, unproven,

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Speaker 1: and untested in humans, and each compound carries its own risk.

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Speaker 1: There's some very serious ones like liver failure, brain swelling, cancer,

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Speaker 1: and that's the kind of thing that we really worry about.

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Speaker 1: So as an example, there's a very common one called

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Speaker 1: BPC one five seven. It's promoted for fast recovery, better healing,

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Speaker 1: you know, chronic injuries. But it works by promoting new

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Speaker 1: blood vessel growth that's called angiogenesis. The scary part is

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Speaker 1: that's the same pathway that cancers used to grow. We

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Speaker 1: turn out that people who use this compound develop cancer after.

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Speaker 8: A few years.

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Speaker 1: The problem is we simply don't know. We haven't even

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Speaker 1: done phase one trials on these medications.

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Speaker 3: All right, well, let's talk trials.

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Speaker 2: Can we go to doctor chef now, because you use

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Speaker 2: peptides at your clinic biogenics when it comes to trials,

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Speaker 2: are you only using peptides that have been trialed?

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Speaker 8: So generally speaking, I agree with what we said said

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Speaker 8: and the main issue is that all of this is

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Speaker 8: in the infancy right now. Right So there are, as

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Speaker 8: we heard, pep types that are quite very known, such

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Speaker 8: as the one medications that are being used for VAT loss.

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Speaker 8: They are peptide medications. Now, another famous peptize, for example,

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Speaker 8: is insolin. And it's highly important right to agree on

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Speaker 8: one thing. You have to stick to the evidence, and

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Speaker 8: you have to obviously really rely on the data that's available.

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Speaker 8: And as it's just third the data on what we

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Speaker 8: call the genitive genitive medicine PEP tiles is very limited.

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Speaker 8: Hands By, these peptides are never being used as first

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Speaker 8: line treatments and shouldn't be. And hands by it's also

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Speaker 8: very you know, dangerous. Then people just buy them online

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Speaker 8: or are being recommended peptides from their social media.

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Speaker 5: So when you're talking about that, I mean the one

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Speaker 5: doctor Dane just spoke of, was it CPT one or

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Speaker 5: something like that?

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Speaker 3: What was that?

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Speaker 8: Was that?

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Speaker 3: Correct?

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Speaker 5: Doctor Day?

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Speaker 1: It was BPC one five seven. That's one of the

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Speaker 1: most common ones that's promoted online.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and doctor Scheffner, are you familiar with that one?

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Speaker 3: Is that something you prescribed?

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Speaker 8: The BPC one five seven is out of this whole family,

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Speaker 8: probably the most weil researched pep side and there are

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Speaker 8: some limited clinical trials as in human trials. A lot

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Speaker 8: of the data is based on translational data or mechanistic

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Speaker 8: data what we called it.

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Speaker 5: So you recommend that one?

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Speaker 8: Look, the main the main. You can't you can't say

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Speaker 8: I recommend anything, right because you can't give medical advice.

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Speaker 8: You have you have to you have to see everything

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Speaker 8: based on its merits.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 8: And if a patient has exhausted all conventional avenues or

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Speaker 8: in their treatment, and they have tried first line treatments,

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Speaker 8: second line treatments, and third line treatments, and they are

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Speaker 8: aware of the risks, and after proper you know, assessments

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Speaker 8: and blood testing and pathology testing, this appears to be

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Speaker 8: the only hope on the horizon. Then it can be

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Speaker 8: used in an off labeled context for these patients. But

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Speaker 8: by no means is it a golden bullet.

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: I think that's sorry, But I think that that's what

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Speaker 4: people are looking for, is the golden bullet. It feels

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Speaker 4: as so. I mean, look, I know it's been floating

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Speaker 4: a around for a very long time, treating injuries and

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Speaker 4: things like that, but as you just mentioned, the explosion

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Speaker 4: of chat of it around social media, I mean, what

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Speaker 4: are the numbers? Doctor dang on? Who wants to know

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Speaker 4: about peptides because they want to improve an injury they have.

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Speaker 4: And who wants to know about peptides because they want

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Speaker 4: to lose weight and look beautiful on.

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Speaker 1: The grant, Yeah, that's right. And the hard part is

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Speaker 1: we don't really know how many people are using this

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Speaker 1: from the black market, and that's very concerning. Look, everyone

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Speaker 1: wants to look good, everyone wants to feel better and

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Speaker 1: heal their chronic injuries. And as a longevity specialist myself,

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Speaker 1: I'm watching this space very very carefully, and I'm all

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Speaker 1: for sort of, you know, pushing the boundaries in terms

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Speaker 1: of treatments. But I'd say at this point in time,

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Speaker 1: these peptides are not ready for human use. Maybe in

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Speaker 1: a couple of years, but not yet. And the concern

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Speaker 1: is people are getting it from the black market. We

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Speaker 1: don't know what they're injecting into them, we don't know

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Speaker 1: how they're stacking it, you know, Peptide stacking is a

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Speaker 1: very trending term at the moment, where they just inject

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Speaker 1: multiple of these untested drugs at the same time. So again,

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Speaker 1: I understand why people are reaching out and want that help,

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Speaker 1: but I'd say injecting these peptides is not the way

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Speaker 1: to go. If you concerned, chat to a doctor, chat

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Speaker 1: to a longevity practitioner, you know that's the way to go.

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Speaker 2: You do you agree with those zen pic and monjaro,

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Speaker 2: doctor dang like or is that an area that you

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Speaker 2: still think that we need research in No, so.

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Speaker 1: Just to be clear, like, those are peptides that have

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Speaker 1: been well studied and approved and they're available as legitimate medications.

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Speaker 1: And that's a really good way to sort of distinguish

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Speaker 1: between something that is safe and effective and something that's

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Speaker 1: just hype and potentially dangerous. So if something's been approved

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Speaker 1: as a medication by the TJA, such as a zempic,

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Speaker 1: would go vi banjaro. Those are great options when you

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Speaker 1: need them. They work really well and they have been

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Speaker 1: proven to be generally quite safe.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, doctor Steffer, we just spoke to We spoke to

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Speaker 5: a couple Nicole and also Simon. Now these guys are

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Speaker 5: both on raditrude Tide, which seems to be the one

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Speaker 5: everyone is talking about. It's meant to be the golden bullet,

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Speaker 5: as you mentioned, it's meant to be the one drug

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Speaker 5: with a quick, quick hit solution. What do you know

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Speaker 5: about this drug and do you get asked about this

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Speaker 5: or would you know where to get it?

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Speaker 8: So I get asked about rid the food Ride very

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Speaker 8: often and leader Foote Tride is currently still undergoing phase

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Speaker 8: three clinical trials internationally. Now DA food Tride is a

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Speaker 8: too Givonto medication. It is a metabolic optimization and bethos

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Speaker 8: of medication that works via three different receptors. So there's

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Speaker 8: three different parts those how it works in your body,

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Speaker 8: and it's not currently available. It's not internationally available, so

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Speaker 8: all of which are truth fright. That is being used

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Speaker 8: is used currently from the black market illegally.

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Speaker 3: So can I ask this question?

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Speaker 5: Because this is what fascinates me. If so many people

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Speaker 5: are on it, and I've met people that are on

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Speaker 5: as well, and I understand how popular it is, then

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Speaker 5: where are they getting it from?

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Speaker 8: Like?

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Speaker 3: How many labs are there out there?

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Speaker 5: Can anyone just set up a lab and make you know,

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Speaker 5: a batched a black market a black market version of

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Speaker 5: raditrue Tide.

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Speaker 3: I mean, how many people can be doing this? Who's

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Speaker 3: making it?

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Speaker 8: Look it's not It's not that simple. It actually takes

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Speaker 8: quite a bit of set up and experts these compounds,

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Speaker 8: but a lot of the black market product is coming

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Speaker 8: from from China, and often these laboratories are a branch

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Speaker 8: off from pre existing manufacturers who just see a niche

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Speaker 8: in the market or you know, see the demand, and

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Speaker 8: then this is essentially being manufactured illegally, right, irrespective of

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Speaker 8: the fact, when you look at the data that is

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Speaker 8: available publicly available for research for the data, then the

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Speaker 8: testing that is coming out is looking fantastic. It has

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Speaker 8: got a very high safety profile.

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Speaker 3: It's not fd A, it's not t G.

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Speaker 5: There's nowhere in the world that's legal.

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Speaker 8: It's it's it's not it's not yet approved, but there

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Speaker 8: is a patent has been has been ladged bally Lily,

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Speaker 8: and I don't think it's far right. Normally, the next

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Speaker 8: step after face PA three clinical trials is the is

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Speaker 8: the approval. And the data currently is looking solid. But

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Speaker 8: the main the main concern is really that we have

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Speaker 8: to say, anyone who's getting peptides out of a West

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Speaker 8: store is running risks of inchecting themselves with a harmful substance.

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Speaker 4: But that medicine, yeah, Well, the influencers are saying things

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Speaker 4: like the only difference between something that's approved in something

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Speaker 4: that's not is the cost. So once you stamp it

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Speaker 4: with an approval, you're spending seven hundred dollars on something

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Speaker 4: that you can buy for twenty bucks elsewhere.

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Speaker 8: That's that's not quite quite true.

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Speaker 2: One.

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Speaker 8: In any research only compound, there's no quality control attached.

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Speaker 8: So these come out of laboratories that don't make these

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Speaker 8: compounds in sterid environments. They don't do thide party testing

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Speaker 8: or any independent independent testing that will be you know

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Speaker 8: necessary for this. Often it doesn't even contain the substance

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Speaker 8: that their promise it contains, or it can be contaminated

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Speaker 8: by having messes or have some microbia contamination. No one

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Speaker 8: knows yea these are inchected the substances, So that has

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Speaker 8: to be stated very clearly. There are clinics internationally treating

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Speaker 8: patients every day prescription PEP tiles in Australia. In Australia,

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Speaker 8: some of the regenitives PEP tips can also be prescribed

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Speaker 8: for off label use as an adjunctive PRODUCTOL. There's scheduled

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Speaker 8: medications in Australia right they come from TACHA registered and

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Speaker 8: licensed compounding facilities in Australia. But it's much more than

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Speaker 8: just that. All of this has to be done under

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Speaker 8: medical supervision evidence space as possible, as much as possible,

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Speaker 8: of course, because it's all still in the infancy and

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Speaker 8: it needs to be overseen by an expert in reginitive

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Speaker 8: medicine and activity medicine.

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Speaker 3: Excuse me a bit, Dane, it does well, doctor Dane,

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Speaker 3: can you tell us?

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Speaker 2: I mean the explosion and AI being introduced as well,

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Speaker 2: but regenerative and longevity medicine.

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Speaker 3: It just seems to be that everyone.

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Speaker 2: Is looking for such a quick solution, Like how much

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Speaker 2: have you seen it explode in your industry with people

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Speaker 2: asking about it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, it has exploded. Look, I've been involved in

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Speaker 1: longevity for the last ten years or so, and you

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Speaker 1: know that was before it was trendy, But in the

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Speaker 1: last couple of years particularly, it's really exploded. Everyone is

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Speaker 1: interested in this. Everyone's interested in how they can live better,

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Speaker 1: live longer, and peptides and all these trends are being

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Speaker 1: sold as some sort of miracle that's going to, you know,

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Speaker 1: fix all your problems, right, But unfortunately the reality is

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Speaker 1: the basics of that's what's going to do it. You know,

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Speaker 1: if you're not eating well, if you're not exercising and

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Speaker 1: not sleeping injecting your peptide isn't going to solve your problems, right.

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Speaker 1: You need to solve those core things first, and that's

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Speaker 1: where a good longevity doctor will really help you know.

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Speaker 1: That's why at MOSH we're launching a longevity program specifically

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Speaker 1: to address this gap where people are going online and

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Speaker 1: finding information from influencers, where we'd rather have them see

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Speaker 1: proper doctor so can guide them through this and really

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Speaker 1: try and sort of separate the false from the and

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Speaker 1: the hype from what really worked the science.

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Speaker 5: I'm also interested to fits just asking from it if

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Speaker 5: there's any new medical research being done on hair loss.

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Speaker 3: Right, don't know.

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Speaker 2: And doctor doctor Scheffner as well, Like I mean, you know,

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Speaker 2: is he's allergic to gym's so that.

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Speaker 3: So like he wants a quick fix. This is the thing.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of people out there that want the

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Speaker 3: quick fix.

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Speaker 2: But please, doctors, can you tell the people of Australia

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Speaker 2: they're just your good old fashioned exercise and your fruit

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Speaker 2: and veg is the way to go.

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Speaker 8: That's correct. Yeah, Look, I think at the end of

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Speaker 8: the day, you know, that's what we're doing it. Jennings

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Speaker 8: and Sydney. It's very important to see the whole the

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Speaker 8: whole picture right and advise people and puttenitive medicine back

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Speaker 8: into expert hands where it belongs right and you know,

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Speaker 8: make sure everything is evidence based because otherwise you don't

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Speaker 8: have a fallback plan and there's no safety attached to

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Speaker 8: any of these treatments. And that's why it's really really

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Speaker 8: important that this should always be an expert hands and

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Speaker 8: clinics that specialize what is and you know, as was

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Speaker 8: just that in conjunction with lifestyle modifications and all the

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Speaker 8: right implementations because long sevty medicine at the end of

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Speaker 8: the day is a lifestyle and a beautiful one is Yeah, well, yeah, it.

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Speaker 4: Must be very frustrating when you've done many years of

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Speaker 4: studying and then you watch social media with people who

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Speaker 4: have just woken up and have thousands and millions of followers.

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Speaker 2: But just quickly the advancement of medicine and II being introduced, doctors,

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Speaker 2: are we going to be living until where one hundred

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Speaker 2: and twenty one hundred and fifty years of age at

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Speaker 2: some stage?

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Speaker 8: Well, David Sinclair, with the head of genetics at Harvard,

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Speaker 8: says one hundred and fifty is possible. So he's working

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Speaker 8: on a program at the moment that is based on

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Speaker 8: epigenetic reprogramming, and he's probably worth leading in the sector.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 8: I wouldn't go as far, but I believe that with AI,

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Speaker 8: you know, we'll be able to do much more testing.

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Speaker 8: We can simulate studies, right, We don't have to do

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Speaker 8: studies that are just based on an actual patient. You

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Speaker 8: can simulate studies and how it comes.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 8: So I think that this will, you know, enable us

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Speaker 8: to have results much faster. And I think with the

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Speaker 8: implementations and the understandings of how our boats a biology works,

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Speaker 8: we will be able to live to one hundred and thirty.

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Speaker 8: But most importantly, it's not just stretching the years you're

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Speaker 8: on the planet. It's actually stretching how well you live,

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Speaker 8: believe on the planet's expected. The definition, right, the definition

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Speaker 8: of a long chevity medicine is, you know, lifespy lifespan

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Speaker 8: versus health span. Health Span is still the years lived

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Speaker 8: in good health, whereas lifespan is just the time on

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Speaker 8: the planet.

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Speaker 2: Right, Good point time guy doctors, We know how busy

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Speaker 2: you are. We really appreciate your time.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for coming on the show to thanks so much

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Speaker 3: having us.

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Speaker 8: Take care of this is the Fizzy with Brandon Cake podcast.

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Speaker 5: For all great shows like this, download the Nova Player

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Speaker 5: via the app store or Google Play.

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Speaker 8: The