1 00:00:04,019 --> 00:00:07,560 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed daily interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. We 2 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:10,230 Sean Aylmer: talk so much about the energy sector on this podcast, 3 00:00:10,230 --> 00:00:13,170 Sean Aylmer: from rising power prices to the pressure on the industry 4 00:00:13,170 --> 00:00:16,529 Sean Aylmer: to shift towards greener energy. Today we have a rare 5 00:00:16,529 --> 00:00:20,250 Sean Aylmer: opportunity to speak directly to one of the retailers who 6 00:00:20,250 --> 00:00:23,460 Sean Aylmer: is on the front line, providing electricity directly to homes 7 00:00:23,460 --> 00:00:26,999 Sean Aylmer: and businesses in Australia. Lisa Chiba is the Managing Director 8 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:30,030 Sean Aylmer: of Momentum Energy, which is a supporter of this podcast. 9 00:00:30,270 --> 00:00:31,649 Sean Aylmer: Lisa, welcome to Fear and Greed. 10 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:33,329 Lisa Chiba: Thanks, Sean. Thanks for having me. 11 00:00:33,900 --> 00:00:37,380 Sean Aylmer: Now I want to talk about transition to renewables, but first, 12 00:00:37,380 --> 00:00:40,110 Sean Aylmer: a lot of people may not know that Momentum Energy 13 00:00:40,110 --> 00:00:43,199 Sean Aylmer: is owned by Hydro Tasmania, and I suspect a lot 14 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,469 Sean Aylmer: of people don't realise that Hydro Tasmania is actually Australia's 15 00:00:46,469 --> 00:00:48,359 Sean Aylmer: largest renewable generator. 16 00:00:48,780 --> 00:00:51,629 Lisa Chiba: That's right. That's right. So Momentum Energy, we are a 17 00:00:51,630 --> 00:00:54,780 Lisa Chiba: mainland retailer based here in Melbourne. But we are part 18 00:00:54,780 --> 00:00:57,600 Lisa Chiba: of Hydro Tasmania, and like you've said, really proud that 19 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:01,110 Lisa Chiba: it is Australia's largest generator of renewable energy. We've been 20 00:01:01,110 --> 00:01:05,130 Lisa Chiba: doing that since 1916 when the first Hydro power station 21 00:01:05,130 --> 00:01:08,670 Lisa Chiba: opened down in Tasmania. So I think people often think 22 00:01:08,670 --> 00:01:12,210 Lisa Chiba: of renewable energy as a very recent new innovation, but actually, 23 00:01:12,510 --> 00:01:14,340 Lisa Chiba: we have this really deep heritage in it that we're 24 00:01:15,180 --> 00:01:17,850 Lisa Chiba: very proud of. Probably the other thing that people may 25 00:01:17,850 --> 00:01:21,688 Lisa Chiba: not realise, particularly on the mainland, is that Hydro Tasmania, 26 00:01:21,900 --> 00:01:25,170 Lisa Chiba: it has this huge network of hydro- powered stations and dams, 27 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,169 Lisa Chiba: and they're connected then into the mainland through this big 28 00:01:28,170 --> 00:01:31,860 Lisa Chiba: undersea cable called Basslink that is an interconnector. So that 29 00:01:31,860 --> 00:01:34,259 Lisa Chiba: renewable energy is great, not just for Tasmania, but actually 30 00:01:34,260 --> 00:01:34,890 Lisa Chiba: for the country. 31 00:01:35,580 --> 00:01:39,389 Sean Aylmer: Okay. We know the goal post now, 43% reduction in 32 00:01:39,389 --> 00:01:45,059 Sean Aylmer: emissions by 2030 and net- zero by 2050. Whereabouts are 33 00:01:45,059 --> 00:01:49,379 Sean Aylmer: we up to getting there? How much work do we 34 00:01:49,379 --> 00:01:51,540 Sean Aylmer: have to do? I suspect it's enormous. 35 00:01:52,950 --> 00:01:55,710 Lisa Chiba: Yeah. We talk about the energy transition as one part 36 00:01:55,710 --> 00:01:59,099 Lisa Chiba: of our overall net- zero plans, and I think it's 37 00:01:59,099 --> 00:02:01,769 Lisa Chiba: a really obvious place for us to start. So public 38 00:02:01,770 --> 00:02:04,949 Lisa Chiba: electricity generation accounts for around a third of Australia's carbon 39 00:02:04,949 --> 00:02:07,560 Lisa Chiba: emissions. So I think you're right. We've got a huge 40 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:11,430 Lisa Chiba: job to do across the nation. But really, looking at 41 00:02:11,430 --> 00:02:14,399 Lisa Chiba: renewable energy and thinking about how we can collectively be 42 00:02:14,700 --> 00:02:18,299 Lisa Chiba: leaning into that challenge, I think, is really important. Because 43 00:02:18,599 --> 00:02:21,000 Lisa Chiba: not only is it around a third of those carbon 44 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,849 Lisa Chiba: emissions, but we also have the technology to eliminate those 45 00:02:24,150 --> 00:02:26,610 Lisa Chiba: emissions today. This isn't something that we need to be 46 00:02:26,610 --> 00:02:29,040 Lisa Chiba: solving for and coming up with those solutions in the 47 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,099 Lisa Chiba: future. Now we have hydropower, we have solar, we have 48 00:02:32,099 --> 00:02:35,099 Lisa Chiba: batteries, we have wind power. There are lots of technologies 49 00:02:35,099 --> 00:02:37,919 Lisa Chiba: available to us. What we need obviously is that time 50 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,680 Lisa Chiba: and investment, and it is a really big transition that needs 51 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:43,530 Lisa Chiba: to happen. But yeah, I think it's really exciting thinking 52 00:02:43,530 --> 00:02:46,500 Lisa Chiba: about the activities that we're starting to see. I think 53 00:02:46,500 --> 00:02:50,190 Lisa Chiba: having those targets and those public commitments at that federal 54 00:02:50,190 --> 00:02:53,340 Lisa Chiba: level is really exciting and is starting to unlock some 55 00:02:53,340 --> 00:02:56,279 Lisa Chiba: really exciting conversations. But you're right, it is certainly a 56 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:56,700 Lisa Chiba: big job. 57 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:00,840 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. But the intergovernmental panel on climate change recently warned 58 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:04,679 Sean Aylmer: that countries like Australia need to make much deeper, rapid, 59 00:03:04,770 --> 00:03:09,089 Sean Aylmer: and more sustained reductions in greenhouse gas emissions to limit 60 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:13,320 Sean Aylmer: global warming. Do you think that what Australia is doing 61 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:15,810 Sean Aylmer: particularly will start to accelerate now? 62 00:03:16,889 --> 00:03:19,530 Lisa Chiba: I think we're already starting to see some of that acceleration. 63 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,110 Lisa Chiba: And I guess where I spend a lot of my 64 00:03:22,110 --> 00:03:26,459 Lisa Chiba: time thinking about is, running a energy retailer, how can 65 00:03:26,460 --> 00:03:30,840 Lisa Chiba: we mobilise all participants in that energy transition, which I 66 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,479 Lisa Chiba: actually think should sort of be rebranded to more of 67 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:37,020 Lisa Chiba: a transformation because it is such a kind of huge 68 00:03:37,170 --> 00:03:41,580 Lisa Chiba: endeavour that we need to participate in. And I spent 69 00:03:41,580 --> 00:03:43,350 Lisa Chiba: a lot of time thinking about that. How can we 70 00:03:43,350 --> 00:03:48,000 Lisa Chiba: really engage and inform every participant, whether that's a business, 71 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:51,030 Lisa Chiba: whether that's you and I sitting at home thinking about 72 00:03:51,150 --> 00:03:53,699 Lisa Chiba: what can we do to decarbonise our own homes and 73 00:03:53,699 --> 00:03:57,000 Lisa Chiba: to reduce our emissions and our carbon footprint? And I 74 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,750 Lisa Chiba: think that we're just starting to see that come into 75 00:04:00,750 --> 00:04:03,780 Lisa Chiba: sort of the public discourse in a meaningful way, and 76 00:04:03,780 --> 00:04:06,420 Lisa Chiba: I think that's certainly, it has to accelerate, but I 77 00:04:06,420 --> 00:04:09,270 Lisa Chiba: think there's really good signs that is starting to happen, 78 00:04:09,330 --> 00:04:11,489 Lisa Chiba: which I get really energised by. 79 00:04:11,939 --> 00:04:15,930 Sean Aylmer: Yes, yes, I can feel that. That's great. What is 80 00:04:15,930 --> 00:04:18,570 Sean Aylmer: the role of retailers in all this? It's beyond just 81 00:04:18,570 --> 00:04:19,920 Sean Aylmer: providing power. 82 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,509 Lisa Chiba: Oh, absolutely. I think, first and foremost, like I've said, 83 00:04:24,509 --> 00:04:28,020 Lisa Chiba: trying to help educate and build awareness, because it's a 84 00:04:28,020 --> 00:04:29,339 Lisa Chiba: really confusing space. 85 00:04:29,430 --> 00:04:29,610 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. 86 00:04:30,540 --> 00:04:33,210 Lisa Chiba: You've already referenced a couple, there's lots of different commitments 87 00:04:33,210 --> 00:04:38,339 Lisa Chiba: and targets and reports and bodies. You've got the state policies, 88 00:04:38,339 --> 00:04:41,009 Lisa Chiba: and then you've got the federal policies, and every company 89 00:04:41,010 --> 00:04:45,240 Lisa Chiba: has their own net- zero ambition or decarbonisation strategy. Anyway, 90 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:48,630 Lisa Chiba: every second company will have a solution that will solve 91 00:04:48,630 --> 00:04:50,909 Lisa Chiba: all of those problems for you at various kind of 92 00:04:50,910 --> 00:04:56,190 Lisa Chiba: prices and levels of complexity. So it's really hard to navigate. 93 00:04:56,790 --> 00:04:59,759 Lisa Chiba: And the type of customers that come to Momentum, they 94 00:04:59,759 --> 00:05:02,190 Lisa Chiba: want to be engaged and they want to be informed. 95 00:05:02,190 --> 00:05:04,980 Lisa Chiba: And so, I think there's a real role for retailers 96 00:05:04,980 --> 00:05:07,799 Lisa Chiba: to play, firstly, just in that education and awareness. And 97 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:11,609 Lisa Chiba: trying to help customers, which ultimately, like I said, is just 98 00:05:11,910 --> 00:05:16,620 Lisa Chiba: you and I and everyday businesses around the country trying 99 00:05:16,620 --> 00:05:18,149 Lisa Chiba: to work out how to navigate that and what the 100 00:05:18,150 --> 00:05:21,058 Lisa Chiba: best first steps are that they can take. So I 101 00:05:21,059 --> 00:05:23,010 Lisa Chiba: think that's sort of step one for me in the 102 00:05:23,010 --> 00:05:25,469 Lisa Chiba: retail space. And then, obviously, it is starting to think 103 00:05:25,470 --> 00:05:28,440 Lisa Chiba: through what are the products and services and the solutions 104 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:30,180 Lisa Chiba: that we need to be offering so that we can 105 00:05:30,180 --> 00:05:33,809 Lisa Chiba: help to enable that transition and that transformation and allow 106 00:05:33,809 --> 00:05:36,570 Lisa Chiba: people and businesses to participate in that? 107 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:39,000 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Lisa. We'll be back in a minute. 108 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,810 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Lisa Chiba, Managing Director of 109 00:05:48,810 --> 00:05:53,490 Sean Aylmer: Momentum Energy. Okay. So businesses are very much under pressure 110 00:05:53,490 --> 00:05:57,479 Sean Aylmer: to transition to greener energy. Businesses now need to declare 111 00:05:57,540 --> 00:06:02,159 Sean Aylmer: their ESG credentials. Certainly, large businesses need to, and even 112 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:06,238 Sean Aylmer: small and medium- sized businesses are increasingly wanting to and 113 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:10,469 Sean Aylmer: needing to when bidding for contracts. How does energy supply 114 00:06:10,469 --> 00:06:15,210 Sean Aylmer: fit into this? How can Momentum help businesses do that? 115 00:06:16,050 --> 00:06:18,209 Lisa Chiba: Yeah. There are lots of ways. I think you raise 116 00:06:18,209 --> 00:06:21,060 Lisa Chiba: a really good point. One thing we've certainly started seeing 117 00:06:21,060 --> 00:06:25,320 Lisa Chiba: quite recently is smaller businesses in particular starting to ask 118 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,320 Lisa Chiba: more questions in this space. And what we believe is 119 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:31,200 Lisa Chiba: driving that is, like you've referenced, a lot of very 120 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:35,699 Lisa Chiba: large organisations have built their net- zero plans, and they've 121 00:06:35,699 --> 00:06:37,919 Lisa Chiba: been very focused on what we'd call their Scope 1 122 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:40,710 Lisa Chiba: and 2 emissions, and are starting to now turn their minds 123 00:06:40,710 --> 00:06:44,070 Lisa Chiba: to Scope 3. And Scope 3 emissions really starts to 124 00:06:44,070 --> 00:06:46,290 Lisa Chiba: push you into your supply chain and make you ask 125 00:06:46,290 --> 00:06:49,289 Lisa Chiba: questions of the partners and suppliers and businesses that you're 126 00:06:49,290 --> 00:06:52,109 Lisa Chiba: working with, and understanding and starting to build that into 127 00:06:52,109 --> 00:06:54,450 Lisa Chiba: your procurement plans and things like that. And so, we're 128 00:06:54,450 --> 00:06:58,140 Lisa Chiba: really starting to see that smaller business sector start to 129 00:06:58,140 --> 00:06:59,940 Lisa Chiba: question what their role needs to be and how they 130 00:06:59,940 --> 00:07:04,050 Lisa Chiba: can respond to some of those contracting or tendering questions 131 00:07:04,050 --> 00:07:06,809 Lisa Chiba: that are starting to come through, or maybe their shareholders 132 00:07:06,809 --> 00:07:10,230 Lisa Chiba: or their customers even are starting to ask those questions. So 133 00:07:10,230 --> 00:07:11,850 Lisa Chiba: it is a bit of a trend we're seeing, where 134 00:07:12,150 --> 00:07:15,900 Lisa Chiba: businesses who may not have access to a sustainability team 135 00:07:15,900 --> 00:07:18,600 Lisa Chiba: or to big consultants who can come in and do 136 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:21,240 Lisa Chiba: that piece of work for them are starting to really 137 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:23,610 Lisa Chiba: have genuine questions. In terms of the way that I 138 00:07:23,610 --> 00:07:26,610 Lisa Chiba: think businesses in particular can start to think through that, 139 00:07:26,759 --> 00:07:29,999 Lisa Chiba: there obviously are a range of solutions, and certainly speaking 140 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,150 Lisa Chiba: to your retailer is a great start, whether that's Momentum 141 00:07:33,150 --> 00:07:35,910 Lisa Chiba: or someone else. We're all out there really trying to 142 00:07:35,910 --> 00:07:39,480 Lisa Chiba: help customers to participate. I think there's some really simple 143 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:41,940 Lisa Chiba: things that you can do. You could conduct an energy audit, 144 00:07:42,300 --> 00:07:43,890 Lisa Chiba: have someone come out and have a look at your 145 00:07:44,099 --> 00:07:47,129 Lisa Chiba: facilities or your offices. That can be really useful if 146 00:07:47,129 --> 00:07:49,020 Lisa Chiba: you haven't done that before, because it could be simple 147 00:07:49,020 --> 00:07:53,160 Lisa Chiba: things like some extra insulation, double glazing. It could be 148 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,460 Lisa Chiba: that the appliances that you have are relatively energy inefficient 149 00:07:56,460 --> 00:07:58,800 Lisa Chiba: and it may be their time for an upgrade. If 150 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:01,439 Lisa Chiba: you can afford it, obviously, investing in solutions like solar 151 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:04,559 Lisa Chiba: panels and batteries. We're starting to see a rise of electric 152 00:08:04,559 --> 00:08:07,950 Lisa Chiba: vehicles even starting to flow through into sort of fleet 153 00:08:07,950 --> 00:08:12,030 Lisa Chiba: discussions for larger businesses. And then, obviously, shifting to renewable energy. 154 00:08:12,030 --> 00:08:15,150 Lisa Chiba: So ideally, if you can move on to a product 155 00:08:15,150 --> 00:08:17,820 Lisa Chiba: like a corporate power purchase agreement or even a green 156 00:08:17,820 --> 00:08:21,539 Lisa Chiba: power product, they're great ways to be supporting that development 157 00:08:21,540 --> 00:08:24,570 Lisa Chiba: of renewable energy. But we often say at Momentum, if 158 00:08:24,570 --> 00:08:26,400 Lisa Chiba: nothing else, even if you can just have a think 159 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:28,290 Lisa Chiba: about not just where your energy is coming from, but 160 00:08:28,290 --> 00:08:30,480 Lisa Chiba: where your money is going to, and making sure that 161 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:34,799 Lisa Chiba: you are switching to a company that is supporting renewable energy, 162 00:08:35,010 --> 00:08:38,250 Lisa Chiba: just like Momentum backing Hydro Tasmania and it's big plans, 163 00:08:38,490 --> 00:08:40,379 Lisa Chiba: but we're not the only ones. But I think that's 164 00:08:40,379 --> 00:08:42,629 Lisa Chiba: a really tangible, simple step that you can take. 165 00:08:43,169 --> 00:08:46,980 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. And can all businesses do that, though? Are all businesses 166 00:08:46,980 --> 00:08:49,980 Sean Aylmer: in a position that they can access renewable energy? 167 00:08:50,700 --> 00:08:55,500 Lisa Chiba: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. There are obviously different solutions, and renewable energy 168 00:08:55,710 --> 00:08:59,250 Lisa Chiba: is an interesting term and certainly comes with complexity in 169 00:08:59,250 --> 00:09:03,059 Lisa Chiba: itself. But absolutely, green power is a very accessible, government- 170 00:09:03,059 --> 00:09:05,910 Lisa Chiba: accredited program that gives you access. Or like I've said, 171 00:09:05,910 --> 00:09:09,840 Lisa Chiba: you can talk to retailers about products like a corporate 172 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,838 Lisa Chiba: power purchase agreement and other things like that, so absolutely. 173 00:09:13,380 --> 00:09:17,399 Sean Aylmer: There's still a perception of renewable energy being more expensive 174 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:20,309 Sean Aylmer: for businesses and households. Is that true? 175 00:09:20,820 --> 00:09:23,100 Lisa Chiba: Yes. There often is a premium, particularly if you're going 176 00:09:23,100 --> 00:09:26,338 Lisa Chiba: to associate a LGC or a certificate or a carbon 177 00:09:26,340 --> 00:09:29,520 Lisa Chiba: credit or something like that with it, then yes, there 178 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:31,920 Lisa Chiba: often is a premium. But like I said, even if 179 00:09:32,219 --> 00:09:35,400 Lisa Chiba: that's not something that you can afford today, thinking about 180 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:39,960 Lisa Chiba: which retailer you are working with and thinking through, " Well, where 181 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,240 Lisa Chiba: is my money actually going? And is it supporting a 182 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:46,500 Lisa Chiba: company that is building out actively new renewable energy projects?" 183 00:09:46,710 --> 00:09:49,559 Lisa Chiba: Even that is something that I think every business and 184 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:53,699 Lisa Chiba: every household could easily look at and think about doing. 185 00:09:54,239 --> 00:09:57,540 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. That premium, I presume, is shrinking. I'd be prepared 186 00:09:57,540 --> 00:10:00,120 Sean Aylmer: to pay a premium if I was confident that the 187 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:02,580 Sean Aylmer: energy wasn't using fossil fuels, and I think a lot 188 00:10:02,580 --> 00:10:05,670 Sean Aylmer: of people would. I presume that premium though, the more 189 00:10:06,059 --> 00:10:09,929 Sean Aylmer: renewable energy, Lisa, I don't even like saying renewable energy 190 00:10:09,929 --> 00:10:12,718 Sean Aylmer: anymore, but green energy, shall we say, that more that 191 00:10:12,750 --> 00:10:15,870 Sean Aylmer: comes on board, that premium will fall as well over 192 00:10:15,870 --> 00:10:16,740 Sean Aylmer: years, I'd imagine. 193 00:10:17,340 --> 00:10:20,010 Lisa Chiba: The schemes are going to change over time. So there's 194 00:10:20,010 --> 00:10:22,290 Lisa Chiba: quite a lot of work going on around the various 195 00:10:22,290 --> 00:10:24,809 Lisa Chiba: schemes and what's going to happen over the coming decades, 196 00:10:24,809 --> 00:10:27,570 Lisa Chiba: because you're right. Over time, the grid will naturally decarbonise 197 00:10:27,570 --> 00:10:31,380 Lisa Chiba: as coal and gas ends and comes offline. So over time, 198 00:10:31,380 --> 00:10:33,750 Lisa Chiba: we will end up with a renewable grid and there will be 199 00:10:33,750 --> 00:10:35,580 Lisa Chiba: no premium. That is just what we will have. But 200 00:10:35,580 --> 00:10:37,140 Lisa Chiba: we're a few decades off that. 201 00:10:37,140 --> 00:10:38,069 Sean Aylmer: Yep, for sure. 202 00:10:38,130 --> 00:10:40,110 Lisa Chiba: So in the interim, yeah, there's a couple of different 203 00:10:40,110 --> 00:10:42,540 Lisa Chiba: schemes and there's a lot of work going on around 204 00:10:42,540 --> 00:10:43,740 Lisa Chiba: kind of what comes next there. 205 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:46,589 Sean Aylmer: Lisa, you have to tell me about the virtual power plant in 206 00:10:46,590 --> 00:10:48,750 Sean Aylmer: the school in Queensland. It's a great anecdote. 207 00:10:49,260 --> 00:10:51,780 Lisa Chiba: Yeah, no, I'd love to. Sorry, I got a bit 208 00:10:51,780 --> 00:10:54,150 Lisa Chiba: hung up on all the easy things that people can 209 00:10:54,150 --> 00:10:58,200 Lisa Chiba: do to start thinking green and renewable. But absolutely, particularly 210 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:00,840 Lisa Chiba: for some of our larger customers, we've been working really 211 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:03,179 Lisa Chiba: hard on what is referred to in the industry as 212 00:11:03,179 --> 00:11:06,600 Lisa Chiba: a virtual power plant or a VPP. And like you've referenced, 213 00:11:06,629 --> 00:11:09,120 Lisa Chiba: we've been doing some work with the Catholic Education Diocese 214 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,780 Lisa Chiba: of Rockhampton up in Queensland. Now a VPP is basically where 215 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,988 Lisa Chiba: you connect a number of assets that a customer, or 216 00:11:15,990 --> 00:11:18,360 Lisa Chiba: even a group of customers may have, and you group 217 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:21,629 Lisa Chiba: them into this virtual system. So those assets might be 218 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:25,559 Lisa Chiba: on the demand side, things like air conditioners, heat pumps. 219 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:28,770 Lisa Chiba: You might have data centers that are really energy intensive. 220 00:11:28,770 --> 00:11:31,530 Lisa Chiba: So you think of assets basically that are consuming a 221 00:11:31,530 --> 00:11:34,170 Lisa Chiba: lot of energy, but that can be sort of turned up, down, on, 222 00:11:34,170 --> 00:11:36,509 Lisa Chiba: or off. You can kind of play with them. And then, 223 00:11:36,509 --> 00:11:39,120 Lisa Chiba: on the supply side, it's obviously things like solar panels 224 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:41,909 Lisa Chiba: and batteries. You can plug electric vehicles in and they 225 00:11:41,910 --> 00:11:46,110 Lisa Chiba: effectively become like a battery on wheels. And then, all 226 00:11:46,110 --> 00:11:49,140 Lisa Chiba: of the kind of energy, and generally, you'll be connected 227 00:11:49,140 --> 00:11:50,670 Lisa Chiba: into the grid as well, and then all of that 228 00:11:50,670 --> 00:11:54,450 Lisa Chiba: gets balanced out. And we help to manage those assets 229 00:11:54,450 --> 00:11:57,660 Lisa Chiba: so you are best utilising your storage and your onsite 230 00:11:57,660 --> 00:12:01,740 Lisa Chiba: generation assets. Now with that diocese up in Queensland, they 231 00:12:01,740 --> 00:12:04,050 Lisa Chiba: have solar panels at around 50 of their schools, and 232 00:12:04,050 --> 00:12:06,030 Lisa Chiba: they have batteries at seven of their colleges. So they 233 00:12:06,030 --> 00:12:10,140 Lisa Chiba: have this really huge investment in assets, which is great. 234 00:12:10,500 --> 00:12:10,501 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. 235 00:12:10,501 --> 00:12:14,458 Lisa Chiba: And by coming into this VPP, we're working with them so 236 00:12:14,460 --> 00:12:17,578 Lisa Chiba: that they can actively participate in that energy transition. They 237 00:12:17,580 --> 00:12:20,670 Lisa Chiba: support grid stability because we can trade in their energy 238 00:12:20,670 --> 00:12:23,190 Lisa Chiba: at periods where there's really high demand. So if there's 239 00:12:23,190 --> 00:12:26,160 Lisa Chiba: been, say, an outage at a power station and there's 240 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,830 Lisa Chiba: a lack of supply, or if it's a really hot 241 00:12:28,830 --> 00:12:32,129 Lisa Chiba: day, but it's cloudy and so the solar panels aren't 242 00:12:32,130 --> 00:12:35,189 Lisa Chiba: getting enough or it's not windy, then we can trade 243 00:12:35,190 --> 00:12:38,040 Lisa Chiba: some of their energy in and derive an income for 244 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:40,078 Lisa Chiba: them, which is helping to pay back those assets that 245 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:42,750 Lisa Chiba: they've bought. But also, like I say, it's really actively 246 00:12:42,750 --> 00:12:46,199 Lisa Chiba: participating in that energy transition. So yeah, it's been a 247 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,719 Lisa Chiba: great example. It works really well with those large businesses 248 00:12:48,719 --> 00:12:50,909 Lisa Chiba: where they do have that scale and a number of 249 00:12:51,210 --> 00:12:53,759 Lisa Chiba: different assets that can be kind of balanced and managed, 250 00:12:54,119 --> 00:12:56,580 Lisa Chiba: and can be a really, really great way to derive 251 00:12:56,580 --> 00:12:59,340 Lisa Chiba: an income out of these great assets. 252 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,460 Sean Aylmer: Lisa, thank you very much for talking to Fear and Greed. 253 00:13:02,790 --> 00:13:03,539 Lisa Chiba: Thanks so much. 254 00:13:04,230 --> 00:13:07,410 Sean Aylmer: That was Lisa Chiba, Managing Director of Momentum Energy, which 255 00:13:07,410 --> 00:13:10,559 Sean Aylmer: is a supporter of this podcast. This is the Fear 256 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:12,720 Sean Aylmer: and Greed daily interview. Join us every morning for the 257 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,750 Sean Aylmer: full episode of Fear and Greed, Australia's most popular business 258 00:13:15,750 --> 00:13:18,449 Sean Aylmer: podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer, enjoy your day.