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Speaker 1: Approache production.

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Speaker 2: You know, some of the most powerful redemption stories have

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Speaker 2: had some of the most horrific.

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Speaker 3: And formatic starts.

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Speaker 2: So and in no way, shape or form, don't feel

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Speaker 2: that you can't speak or say what you want to say.

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Speaker 2: This is one of This is one of the original

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Speaker 2: open book fucking platforms, and I'm super proud that we've

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Speaker 2: been able to create. And here you are today, mate,

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Speaker 2: So as you feel comfortable, let it go.

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Speaker 4: And there's only one person that can confirm this story.

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Speaker 4: And I hope maybe he gets on the podcast and

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Speaker 4: sees it one day, because you know, he had a

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Speaker 4: pretty savage ending to his criminal career here in Tasmania

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Speaker 4: based on this story I'm about to tell.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, so when I was ten years old, man,

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Speaker 1: I was.

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Speaker 4: Literally rolling around with some of our state's worst middle

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Speaker 4: aged defenders over to tween sixteen to twenty five and yeah,

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Speaker 4: before my eleventh birthday brother, I was one of two

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Speaker 4: men that were quite literally rolling around the compounds of

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Speaker 4: the old Risden prison dropping off five kilo musashi containers

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Speaker 4: full of contrabine, like literally five five kilo containers and

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Speaker 4: we just rolled through the paddocks, got through the security

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Speaker 4: and whatnot and stashed these big containers in a woodyard

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Speaker 4: down in the old jar. What actually happened was the

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Speaker 4: man that took me there, he was like twenty one.

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Speaker 4: He actually stole a lot of stuff out of those

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Speaker 4: five containers that weren't meant to be touched. And when

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Speaker 4: he returned to prison, he was savagely bashed and stabbed.

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Speaker 4: And that's all heavily documented. People got years jailed for it.

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Speaker 4: He was one of Tasmania's first I come how they

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Speaker 4: phrase it, but he got an international transfer for his

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Speaker 4: safety because he robbed the two biggest gangs in the

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Speaker 4: state effectively. And I just need bashed and stabbed him

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Speaker 4: to death. So wow, Yeah, I won't say his name,

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Speaker 4: but I.

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Speaker 3: Don't know that.

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Speaker 2: No. We look, that's why we're unless it refers to

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Speaker 2: ourselves as one thing here that we're very sort of

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Speaker 2: I guess old school about as those sorts of things.

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Speaker 3: Mate, we don't need to reveal names. But you know.

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Speaker 2: That's a that's a crazy entry into the life of

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Speaker 2: criminality at that age. You know you're doing drops at

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Speaker 2: the most notorious prison in Tasmania with as you said,

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Speaker 2: the state's most notorious prisoners.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and naturally that wasn't a regular thing. I only

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Speaker 4: ever done that once. But yeah, outside of serious stuff

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Speaker 4: like that, man, I was keeping cuckoo for people breaking

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Speaker 4: into businesses still safes. I was doing all sorts of

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Speaker 4: serious crime at ten years of age. I wasn't so

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Speaker 4: much doing it myself, but I was there taking part,

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Speaker 4: being taught, being shown, learning educated. Yeah, groomed is how

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Speaker 4: I put it, because like I would never do that

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Speaker 4: to a fourteen year old, let alone a ten year old.

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Speaker 4: You know, like Laura on them down that dark path

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Speaker 4: where they see everything comes so easy. All the hard

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Speaker 4: things in life that they think are really hard to get,

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Speaker 4: they're seeing these other people just take and get and

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Speaker 4: have in abundance, and it creates a really bad perception

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Speaker 4: in a young person's mind.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean at that age, Kane, you're so absorbent,

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Speaker 2: you you know, like I look at my nine year

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Speaker 2: old son, and you know, his energies are in his

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Speaker 2: sport and he's just totally obsessed with his sport and

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Speaker 2: anything to do with it or you know the style

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Speaker 2: of play or what it is in reference to teams players.

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Speaker 3: He just takes on board.

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Speaker 2: So and it to be no different to a young

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Speaker 2: person who has no stability and no home and no

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Speaker 2: family seeing how to survive through the actions of criminality

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Speaker 2: and being educated in this way.

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Speaker 3: How what else are you going to do? You're a

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Speaker 3: product of your environment.

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Speaker 4: Yeah so yeah, basically, brother, that's you couldn't couldn't have

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Speaker 4: phrased it better man, Honestly, bro, it just got to

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Speaker 4: a pointment where, you know, I was sentenced to eighteen

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Speaker 4: months as a thirteen year old for stealing safe once

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Speaker 4: again with another very well known repeat serious offender who

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Speaker 4: was a twenty five year old adult and I was

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Speaker 4: thirteen years old. Well, I was caught left sitting on

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Speaker 4: the side of a road on top of a two

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Speaker 4: hundred odd kilo safe that was still welded to a

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Speaker 4: metal table top, and a pedestrian just come out of

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Speaker 4: nowhere spear tackled me off. At long story short, I

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Speaker 4: got eighteen months for it because there was sixty odd

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Speaker 4: thousand dollars in that safe, so that was a supreme

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Speaker 4: court offense. And yeah, man, my life just never really

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Speaker 4: covered after those first couple of years because it wasn't like.

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Speaker 1: I was.

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Speaker 4: I was wounded up to it in a sense, but

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Speaker 4: not not like step by step, if that makes sense.

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Speaker 4: It was just especially that first individual I was referring to.

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Speaker 4: He was thrown through criminal like carried guns, lived.

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Speaker 2: In also and addicted, like was he addicted to drugs

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Speaker 2: and using in front of him and stuff like that too. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: And I mean, look, I think from back then, it

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Speaker 2: wouldn't have been nice.

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Speaker 3: It would have been heroin predominantly, wouldn't it.

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Speaker 1: Gear is what they actually stabbed him for.

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Speaker 4: He took about three quarters of announcer gear out of

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Speaker 4: one of those containers.

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Speaker 3: Gear as in heroin or gear.

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Speaker 1: As in amphetamine.

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Speaker 2: Different different states we call it different things that Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean the gear was always heroin in New South

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Speaker 2: Wales and it's got another name in Queensland. And but yeah,

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Speaker 2: the old the old gas or so yeah, wow.

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Speaker 1: For me, bro like it just I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I do a lot of reflection now, Like I think,

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Speaker 4: I look at my old psych reports, I look at

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Speaker 4: my criminal history when I'm doing certain things for reference purposes,

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Speaker 4: and sometimes I just find myself thinking about things that

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Speaker 4: you know, I to this day find unbelievable because like

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Speaker 4: I said, I would never let a child engage, partake,

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Speaker 4: or even witness the things that I was being wholeheartedly shown,

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Speaker 4: taught and schooled in like and yeah, man, like it's

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Speaker 4: it's not rocket science. Once I got that bug for it,

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Speaker 4: you know, once I knew how to drive, once I

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Speaker 4: knew how to steal cars, once I knew violence, spoke

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Speaker 4: all languages, I just become a product of my environment.

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Speaker 4: And you know, as you get older, man, go through

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Speaker 4: detention centers and stuff. Anyone that's been i'd imagine in

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Speaker 4: a detention center in this country as a very young person,

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Speaker 4: so between the age of say ten and fourteen, if

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Speaker 4: they are being housed with people older than that, so

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Speaker 4: fourteen to eighteen, or in my case, between maybe and

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Speaker 4: ten and the oldest person at the detention center being

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Speaker 4: twenty one, you're being put in an environment where, you know,

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Speaker 4: the statistics would say it's not a smart move to

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Speaker 4: put kids that are not that don't have a one

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Speaker 4: hundred percent recidivism rate. You do not then go unlock

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Speaker 4: them in a confined space with no supervision with twenty

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Speaker 4: seven offenders that do have a one hundred percent recidivism rate.

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Speaker 4: They are serial repeat offenders, and they will groom younger,

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Speaker 4: younger detainees to link. Yeah, whether you're doing stuff in

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Speaker 4: the detention center, whether they're linking up with you once

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Speaker 4: you get outside to then groom you and use you

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Speaker 4: to commit crimes with them.

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Speaker 1: It's all about for me, you know.

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Speaker 4: That's what that life taught me, is that when you

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Speaker 4: really sit back and microanalyze your relationships in that life,

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Speaker 4: you'll quickly realize that your best mate, the person that

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Speaker 4: you swear you will kill and die for you both

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Speaker 4: genuinely do not have each other's best interest at heart.

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Speaker 4: Even though you'll kill and die for each other, you

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Speaker 4: don't have each other's best interested us.

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Speaker 1: For some people you say that to them, they don't

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Speaker 1: understand the concept.

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Speaker 4: I will kill and die for you, but I will

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Speaker 4: not give you drugs that ruin your life.

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Speaker 3: Or in the end they won't give you up. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But there you staunch five eight through fucking everything, and

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden you get pinched. The next minute,

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Speaker 2: you know, like you're sitting there thinking that he's going

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Speaker 2: to hold tight, and.

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Speaker 3: Someone's out and someone's doing a whack, and it's like,

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Speaker 3: what the fuck?

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Speaker 1: One hundred how was that for you?

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Speaker 2: Though? Getting sort of I guess, well, we'll use the

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Speaker 2: word groom because that is the word that you know,

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Speaker 2: describes everything you're talking about. And I have to agree

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Speaker 2: when you're talking about an adult and a child. How

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Speaker 2: old were you when you started hitting the drugs?

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Speaker 4: So I smoked cannabis probably two or three days after

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Speaker 4: I moved into my mother's house with my next eldest brother, Justin.

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Speaker 4: And you know, until I got out of prison this

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Speaker 4: time in twenty nineteen, I'd always been a cannabis smoker.

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Speaker 4: The hard drugs didn't really come into play until I

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Speaker 4: hit the detention center because every second kid in there

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Speaker 4: was prescribed the old fifty to fifty dex emphetamine, so

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Speaker 4: they're practically either fifty percent of pure emphetamine or one

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Speaker 4: hundred percent pure emphetamine, and the kids would just divert

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Speaker 4: their medication and then one pill would literally get six

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Speaker 4: detainees high. So one pill that's meant for one kid

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Speaker 4: would be crushed up and snorted by six detainees and

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Speaker 4: they'd be all raising off their heads because they've just

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Speaker 4: prescribed amphetamine that they're handing out like candy in a

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Speaker 4: detention center full of drug addics.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 2: So it's no different really to the oxy tablets to

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Speaker 2: get into the system, and the way they crush it

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Speaker 2: up and or sit around drawer and a fit off

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Speaker 2: it and you know one one eighty meg will fucking

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Speaker 2: get everybody stoned.

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Speaker 3: Wow, that's crazy.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, unfortunately for me.

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Speaker 4: The other well he's about six months older than me,

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Speaker 4: but one of my best friends, he was prescribed four

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Speaker 4: of these writtle in the day, so you know we

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Speaker 4: were on it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, sadly so you you therefore would have been in

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Speaker 2: addiction whilst in custody.

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Speaker 1: Oh one hundred percent.

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Speaker 4: Man, that's where I was first exposed to amphetamines. I'd

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Speaker 4: never snorted Rittlin or DEXes, or I'd had a bit

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Speaker 4: of gear put in my throat actually the night of

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Speaker 4: the rolling around the prison yard, but I'd never you know,

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Speaker 4: it wasn't an everyday sort of thing, whereas once I

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Speaker 4: hit the detention centers, that was what was happening every day.

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Speaker 2: So you're referring when you say detention center, and we

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Speaker 2: just clear that up because in some parts of Australia,

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Speaker 2: detention center generally comes across as a place for five

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Speaker 2: oh ones that get locked in.

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Speaker 3: So when we're talking about your.

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Speaker 2: Experience in the juvenile justice system, is that correct?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Actually, I don't know what they I don't know what

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Speaker 4: they call it youth detention, because yeah, up until I

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Speaker 4: think about two thousand and three or four, they were

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Speaker 4: still housing people there that werepped to twenty years of age,

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Speaker 4: like with with kids that were as young as twelve

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Speaker 3: H