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Speaker 1: Welcome to Fear and Greed Sunday feature oh Michael Thompson.

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Speaker 1: Electric vehicles are perhaps unsurprisingly back in the news after

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Speaker 1: Tesla reported a thirteen percent drop in sales for the

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Speaker 1: last quarter. Now, Tesla's facing a lot of challenges right now,

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Speaker 1: part because of Elon Musk's politics, but largely driven by

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Speaker 1: greater competition from companies like China's BYD, and we are

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Speaker 1: seeing that here in Australia. Last month, BYD sold eight thousand,

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Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty six vehicles. That's up almost three

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Speaker 1: hundred and sixty eight percent year on year. It's enough

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Speaker 1: to make it the fifth most popular car brand for

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Speaker 1: the month, just behind Hyundai, but ahead of manufacturers like

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Speaker 1: Kia and Mitsubishi Subaru. Tesla doesn't even make the top ten,

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Speaker 1: which leads us to today's interview. Last year we spoke

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Speaker 1: with Trent Nikolic, who is the managing editor of Drive

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Speaker 1: dot com dot Au, about evs in Australia and some

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Speaker 1: of the unique challenges that we have here that other

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Speaker 1: countries kind of don't.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: When Sean Aylmer spoke with Trent, Trent was doing a

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Speaker 1: lap of the map in an EV who was driving

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Speaker 1: right around Australia to see just how difficult it is.

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Speaker 1: It is a great chat. I hope you enjoy it.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm sure, Almam.

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Speaker 3: Is the shift to electric vehicles losing momentum. Last week

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Speaker 3: Australian ev charging company Tritium went into administration, just two

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Speaker 3: years after the CEO stood alongside US President Joe Biden

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Speaker 3: at a press conference promoting the technology is the future

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Speaker 3: of Charging. Then in the March quarter, Tesla sales fell

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Speaker 3: world short of expectations, around three hundred and eighty seven

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Speaker 3: thousand supposed to deliver about four hundred and fifty thousand locally.

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Speaker 3: There was a record number of vvs sold in March,

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Speaker 3: but the electric share of the market actually went backwards.

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Speaker 3: At the same time, the international Energy agencies forecasting electric

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Speaker 3: car sales hit seventeen million this year. That's three million

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Speaker 3: more than last year. So what is the outlook for

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Speaker 3: electric vehicles right now? Could we be seeing some of

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Speaker 3: the initial enthusiasm waning and maybe a longer term shift

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Speaker 3: towards hybrid vehicles instead, particularly in Australia. Whenever we have

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Speaker 3: a question about cars of any variety, we go to

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Speaker 3: Trent Nikolic, the managing editor of drive dot com dot a.

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Speaker 3: You the absolute guru of all things vehicles related. Trent,

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Speaker 3: Welcome back to Fear and Greed.

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Speaker 2: Hello, mate, Thank you for the intro and it's a

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Speaker 2: pleasure to be back. Now.

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Speaker 3: I know we've got lots to talk about. You've been

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Speaker 3: driving an ev around Australia.

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Speaker 4: Is that right, haddick go, Yeah, it's going slowly mate.

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Speaker 4: There's been a lot of sitting on the side of

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Speaker 4: the road waiting for the vehicle to charge. And one

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Speaker 4: of the reasons we did it so we're doing a

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Speaker 4: series of TV episodes for a show that we do

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Speaker 4: on Channel nine. But one of the reasons that we

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Speaker 4: did it was just to have a look at some

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Speaker 4: of the issues with charging in remote regional areas and

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Speaker 4: have a look at some of the realities because plenty

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Speaker 4: of people are out there, you know, speaking the virtues

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Speaker 4: of electric cars and talking about all of the things

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Speaker 4: that they do. Well, you find even when you speak

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Speaker 4: to someone who owns an electric vehicle, they're willing, especially

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Speaker 4: on camera, if we say we're going to interview them

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Speaker 4: and ask them some questions. They have this remarkable tendency

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Speaker 4: to tell us all the amazing and wonderful things and

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Speaker 4: then when you turn the camera off, they say, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 4: but we had a problem with this, but this chargeer

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Speaker 4: didn't work, but we got stuck here.

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Speaker 3: So is that the main issue is charging, the fact

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Speaker 3: that you've got to plan your trip past the time

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Speaker 3: to charge. It's not like you can fill it up

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Speaker 3: in five minutes.

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Speaker 2: No, No, this is the big issue. Sean.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, electric vehicles in isolation are fantastic. They're great things

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Speaker 4: to drive. They're fast, they're quiet, they're refined, they're comfortable.

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Speaker 4: They've got really good response in terms of how they

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Speaker 4: react to you as the driver. They're really enjoyable things

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Speaker 4: to drive. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the driving experience

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Speaker 4: of an electric vehicle. The two barriers to them in

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Speaker 4: a country like Australia are one price, because they're still

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Speaker 4: too expensive, especially when you compare them to an equivalent

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Speaker 4: internal combustion vehicle, and then to the public charging. It's

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Speaker 4: all well and good to say that I can charge

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Speaker 4: it overnight at home, or I can charge it during

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Speaker 4: the day at work. If my office or my you know,

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Speaker 4: workplace provides charging for me, that's fine.

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Speaker 2: If you've got access to that, no problem at all.

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Speaker 4: But when you're out on the road and you're relying

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Speaker 4: on public charging infrastructure, we are absolutely nowhere close to

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Speaker 4: where we need to be, even for the number of

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Speaker 4: electric vehicles that we have on the road in Australia now,

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Speaker 4: let alone what the projections would forecast that we might

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Speaker 4: have in five or ten years.

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Speaker 3: So that brings us the Tritium, which was focusing on

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Speaker 3: manufacturing these charging stations that had sort of pushed into

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Speaker 3: the US away from Australia. I don't know whether you

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Speaker 3: know much about a Tritium story. You know, it's kind

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Speaker 3: of what went wrong there. But is there a solution

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Speaker 3: I suppose with a charging Is there a solution yet

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Speaker 3: for that?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So on one hand, your sort of patriotic way

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Speaker 4: of looking at it is to be sad, you know

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Speaker 4: that an Australian company or a largely rasing company hasn't

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Speaker 4: worked out and hasn't succeeded. But on the other hand,

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Speaker 4: I'm just left with a lot of these charging solutions

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Speaker 4: around the world, thinking to myself that they were built

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Speaker 4: largely on the premise of government incentives and injections of

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Speaker 4: money to help them set up a business that may

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Speaker 4: not have been either a planned particularly well or be

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Speaker 4: profitable in real terms, because you know, if you and

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Speaker 4: I go and start up a restaurant tomorrow with our

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Speaker 4: own money, we're going to do it very differently to

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Speaker 4: if we started up with you know, a million bucks

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Speaker 4: that the government's given us, and we don't really care

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Speaker 4: too much about what five or ten years down the

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Speaker 4: road looks like. And I wonder with some of this infrastructure,

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Speaker 4: and Tritium is probably a good example. It was just

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Speaker 4: set up in such a way that they rushed it out,

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Speaker 4: didn't really plan it correctly, and maybe it was never

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Speaker 4: going to work from the outset.

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Speaker 3: Are we very close to having a solution where I

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Speaker 3: can pull into a charging station and fill up even

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Speaker 3: in ten minutes rather than two and a half hours.

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Speaker 4: We're close in in terms of the technology being available,

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Speaker 4: Like if you can access a three hundred and fifty

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Speaker 4: killer what charger, you can put some real charge into

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Speaker 4: your battery very quickly. But when I speak to engineers

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Speaker 4: around the world, one of the barriers to charging them

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Speaker 4: really quickly is heat. And the more often you do it,

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Speaker 4: the more damage you're doing to the battery pack. They

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Speaker 4: don't love it. They don't like being superheated when you

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Speaker 4: do that, so that's an issue as well. But in

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Speaker 4: real terms, are those three fifty killer what charges broadly

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Speaker 4: available around Australia. No, will they be broadly available anytime soon?

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Speaker 2: I doubt it.

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Speaker 4: And then if you're talking about fifty killer what chargers

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Speaker 4: and you've got a vehicle like the key to EV

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Speaker 4: nine that we've been driving at the moment, and this

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Speaker 4: is real basic mats, right, But if you're driving an

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Speaker 4: EV nine like we are, with a one hundred killer

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Speaker 4: what hour battery, if you've got that down to fifty percent,

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Speaker 4: you are on that fifty killer what charger for an

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Speaker 4: hour minimum. If you're down near ten or twenty percent,

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Speaker 4: it's going to be closer to two hours. And for

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Speaker 4: a lot of people in a lot of instances, I

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Speaker 4: mean picture mum and dad and two young kids doing

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Speaker 4: a road trip.

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Speaker 2: Do they want to be stuck on the side.

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Speaker 4: Of the road in thirty eight degree heat with two

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Speaker 4: screaming kids for two hours?

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Speaker 2: I don't think.

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Speaker 3: So stay with me, Trent, we'll be back in a minute.

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Speaker 3: I'm speaking to Trent Nikolic, managing editor of Drive dot

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Speaker 3: com Dot au okay, So what is the future for

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Speaker 3: evs in australiace, I mean, rather than going too broad

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Speaker 3: to begin with. In the last couple of days, Tesla's

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Speaker 3: come out, Elo Muscle's come out said he's going to

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Speaker 3: pull forward production of cheaper evs. I mean, there's probably

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Speaker 3: still a way to go, and presumably that happens in

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Speaker 3: China and the US first, But do you think it

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Speaker 3: will hit Australia and is that enough to make a

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Speaker 3: difference or is this a hybrid country?

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Speaker 4: Look at the moment where a hybrid country. There's no

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Speaker 4: doubt about that. I think if Australians had a choice

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Speaker 4: right now broadly between an electric vehicle and a hybrid,

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Speaker 4: they take a hybrid ten to one. I wouldn't estimate

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Speaker 4: because it makes a lot more sense and it's a

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Speaker 4: lot easier for them to use. I think what Elon

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Speaker 4: Musk has said about more affordable electric vehicles absolutely uncategorically

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Speaker 4: would have to happen if you're going to get more

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Speaker 4: people to buy them, because the biggest barrier at the

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Speaker 4: moment is priced.

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Speaker 2: There's absolutely no doubt about that.

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Speaker 4: So I think more affordable electric vehicles on sale would

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Speaker 4: make a difference However, the really interesting thing to sit

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Speaker 4: back from the outside and watch is have we reached

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Speaker 4: a point now where the initial take up from people

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Speaker 4: who were genuinely interested in buying an electric vehicle has

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Speaker 4: started to tail off a little bit, And now the

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Speaker 4: companies are facing the hard cell. Now they have to

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Speaker 4: go out and convince people who don't really want one,

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Speaker 4: who an electric vehicle won't really work for right now,

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Speaker 4: do the manufacturers now have to try to force them

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Speaker 4: to buy an electric vehicle because the people who really

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Speaker 4: want one have already got one.

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Speaker 3: So in terms of the big sellers now, and these

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Speaker 3: are the internal combustion, the forward ranges of highlights, etc.

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Speaker 3: Is there an EV equivalent that's going to do the

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Speaker 3: job for trades that needs to be done?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: See this is the other great question, right. So when

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Speaker 4: we say EV equivalent, yes, there is an electric vehicle

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Speaker 4: that looks like a ranger or a high luck. So

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Speaker 4: there's an LDV electric jewel cab. There is now a

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Speaker 4: company in Queensland called oz Ev that's converting the F

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Speaker 4: one fifty Lightning, which is a full size F one

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Speaker 4: to fifty that's electric. They look like a regular pickup

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Speaker 4: or a duel cab, but when we say equivalent, they

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Speaker 4: don't perform anything like them, because if you load them

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Speaker 4: up or put a caravan behind it or a big trailer,

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Speaker 4: they're going to cut their range in half and you're

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Speaker 4: going to be left doing two hundred kilometers or one

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Speaker 4: hundred and fifty k's on a charge.

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Speaker 2: Plus you're spending.

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Speaker 4: An inordinate amount more money on them to buy them

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Speaker 4: in the first place. So I think the real challenge

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Speaker 4: for any manufacturer anywhere in the world is to come

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Speaker 4: up with, I guess, a believable solution for trade's and

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Speaker 4: work vehicles because duel cabs, single cabs, with our alloy trays, vans,

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Speaker 4: light trucks, they're the real challenge. To make them electric

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Speaker 4: and to make them efficient when they're electric, that's the

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Speaker 4: real challenge.

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Speaker 3: Okay, try and I've asked you this question a few

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Speaker 3: years ago because I am again in the market to

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Speaker 3: buy a car.

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Speaker 2: I know what you're going to ask me.

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Speaker 3: Well to we actually, Jackie, my partner has a hybrid,

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Speaker 3: a RAB for hybrid, which I think is about as

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Speaker 3: good a car as I have ever driven. To you

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Speaker 3: in that price range, what are the best hybrids, What

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Speaker 3: are the ones I should be.

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Speaker 4: Looking at look at the moment, and it's really quite

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Speaker 4: interesting that Toyota really still is setting the standard in

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Speaker 4: terms of how a hybrid works and how you integrate

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Speaker 4: a hybrid into your life. The other one that I'd

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Speaker 4: recommend you and your partner have a look at is

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Speaker 4: the Nissan X trail ePower. So it's a hybrid, but

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Speaker 4: it's a little bit different. It's got a small petrol

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Speaker 4: engine that works as a generator. The generator charges a

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Speaker 4: battery pack, which then drives electric motors, so the petrol

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Speaker 4: engine never drive the car, which with your rav four

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Speaker 4: it does. So I think Niss and Z power system

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Speaker 4: is a really good one, and it's a new solution

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Speaker 4: and a new alternative to have a look at. He

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Speaker 4: under hybrids tending to be quite efficient as well, but

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Speaker 4: I still think the Toyota systems really do set the standard.

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Speaker 3: Okay, it does sound though that the Nissan is a

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Speaker 3: little bit more hybrid, more a little bit more ev

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Speaker 3: than internal combustion.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a little bit more of a step towards

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Speaker 4: an electric vehicle because what you get with that is

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Speaker 4: you get the sort of sensation and feedback of driving

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Speaker 4: an electric vehicle without the issues of charging because you

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Speaker 4: just fill up a petrol tank as you would be

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Speaker 4: accustomed to. So I think it's one that people should

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Speaker 4: have a look at if they want to make a

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Speaker 4: half step towards an electric vehicle. And I certainly think

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Speaker 4: if you live in the city, if you never do

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Speaker 4: long road trips, if you don't toe anything, or if

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Speaker 4: you're a two car family, I certainly think you could

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Speaker 4: consider an electric vehicle.

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Speaker 2: There's no doubt about that.

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Speaker 4: But I think for a lot of Australians they're just

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Speaker 4: not practical yet.

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Speaker 3: Trent, thank you for talking to If you're and greed

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Speaker 3: pleasure mate.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 3: That was Trent Nikolic, managing editor of Drive dot com

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Speaker 3: dot Au and keep an eye out for that show

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Speaker 3: on nine Network, Trent driving around the country in an

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Speaker 3: ev This is a Fear and Greed business interview. Join

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Speaker 3: us every morning for the full episode of Fear and

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Speaker 3: Greed at Daily Business Us. For people who make their

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Speaker 3: own decisions, I'm Sean Elmer. Enjoy your day.