1 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. 2 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: Detective see a side of life. The average person is 3 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:11,120 Speaker 1: never exposed her I spent thirty four years as a cop. 4 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years I was catching killers. 5 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a 6 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, 7 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. 8 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:26,439 Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories 9 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw 10 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:31,479 Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some 11 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because 12 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. 13 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world. 14 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of I Catch Killers. This is 15 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: going to be a lot of fun. Or I think 16 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 1: it's going to be a lot of fun. 17 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 2: Today. 18 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: As a Christmas special, our producer has come up with 19 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: an idea, how about we let someone else host I 20 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 1: Catch Killers. So we had a choice of people, and 21 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: the person that we've picked is Andrew Hamilton. You might 22 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 1: know that name. It's a former guest on I Catch Killers. 23 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: Stand up comedian that did a bit of time in 24 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: prison for selling mushrooms of all things. He's a funny guy. 25 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: I've got a lot of time for him, and I'm 26 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: handing over the reins of I Catch Killers to Andrew Hamilton. 27 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 1: I don't know how this is going to go, but 28 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: he's got a list of questions from listeners that have 29 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: sent in and he's got the floor. I'm nervous, and 30 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 1: I'll explain why I'm nervous, because I've got here in 31 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: the studio with me Andrew Hamilton, former guest on I 32 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: Catch Killers. You might recall a stand up comedian happened 33 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 1: to do a little bit of time in jail for 34 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 1: an issue over mushrooms, something along those lines. Our producer 35 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: on I Catch Killers decide that it's been a hard year, 36 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: a long year, and we get a lot of listeners 37 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 1: say they've got questions that they'd like to put to me. 38 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 1: And Emily came up with the idea, why don't we 39 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: get Andrew Hamilton back and you can hand over the 40 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: reins to him to run EYE Catch Killers and he 41 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 1: can ask you the questions. And I'm the guest, so 42 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: Andrew be kind please. 43 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 3: The hunter has become the Hunter, Gary, it's great to 44 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 3: be here. Thank you very much for inviting me on. 45 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 3: I had a lot of time, a lot of fun 46 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 3: when you invited me on as a guest. I still 47 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:24,079 Speaker 3: have people messaging me now that listen to that podcast, 48 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,399 Speaker 3: And you know, I think one of my favorite things 49 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 3: from that was I was talking about my time in 50 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 3: jail and my time as a drug dealer, and you 51 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 3: were laughing at some of it, but then you kept 52 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 3: having a break and be like, just to remind everyone 53 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:36,639 Speaker 3: what he was doing was illegal. 54 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 1: Don't try this at home type situation. Yeah, So that 55 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:42,119 Speaker 1: was the best. 56 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 2: So it was great to be back. 57 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 3: I guess I wanted to start by asking you because 58 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 3: I as a comedian, I have people all the time 59 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 3: that come up to me and want to tell me 60 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 3: their favorite of my jokes and ask me questions about comedy. 61 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 3: But when you're out in public, must be mostly people 62 00:02:57,840 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 3: coming up to want to talk about homicide. 63 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: You being a cop, yeah, generally speaking, pretty. 64 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,639 Speaker 2: Grim to constantly be talking about. 65 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 1: It's heavy, But I spent a long time as a 66 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 1: homicide cop and even hanging out with the victims families, 67 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: and that you've got to find some light in that 68 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: darkness because it is a dark world, Like you can't 69 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: what's your job? My day would start when someone has 70 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: been murdered. You're looking at the body. So it's a heavy, 71 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: heavy topic, but people are interested in it. But you 72 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: can talk about it with a respectful way. And I 73 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: always preface when I'm talking about homicide. It's all right 74 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: to find some light in the pain because it is pain. 75 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: That's what what's homicide's about. But yeah, people do have 76 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: a fascination about it. It's better than someone coming up 77 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: and saying you're a cop. I've got a speeding ticket 78 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: the other day, or talking like that. I can't do 79 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: those conversations. Rather talk about a homicide than petty side. 80 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: Yeah I got a ticket when I was only going 81 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: you know, five k's over. I don't want to hear 82 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: about that. Yeah, I've got my own problems with the tickets. 83 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 3: Well, one of my biggest pet beaves with the law 84 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 3: right now is when they as signs that say you 85 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 3: can't eat in this smoking area. 86 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 2: That they have at pumps. 87 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 3: Well, there there must be the kind of gripes of 88 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:21,600 Speaker 3: people talk to you about you know this is not 89 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 3: really my area. 90 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: Well, exactly right, You're a placement. Can you sort that out? 91 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 2: Well? 92 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: Are you intending to eat the meal there? 93 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 2: Or? 94 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: I know it's funny. I like rules because this sounds weird. 95 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:40,039 Speaker 1: I like rules because it keeps society in line. But 96 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 1: I only like the rules I like, and I push 97 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: back against authority sometimes of the rules. I think they're ridiculous. 98 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 1: So I'm not just talking smoking their COVID Dare I 99 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 1: talk that word? That frustrated hell out of me when 100 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 1: we're going through that for a couple of years. And 101 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 1: then the people making the big calls were the ones 102 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: in power, and power corrupts and some of the decisions 103 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: that were made with COVID just I just I wanted 104 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: to protest. I wanted to march down the street. 105 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. 106 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 3: Well, there were people that you know, lost their jobs 107 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 3: that were cops because they refused to get vaccinated. And 108 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 3: I think, yeah, the whole thing was a mess. 109 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: It was a mess, and whether I saw, but it 110 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 1: was that that power, and i'd see the politicians. You know, 111 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: we used to get the eleven AM briefing and what 112 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 1: we're allowed to do. I called it the head master 113 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: is going to speak to us, or the head mistress 114 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: is going to speak to us, it felt like I 115 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: was back at school. 116 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:36,919 Speaker 3: A lot of people do get into the job in 117 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 3: blue because they are massive sticklers for the rules. Though, 118 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 3: I think I when I first got out of jail 119 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 3: and I was under house arrest, I was dating a 120 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:49,360 Speaker 3: girl who is a corrections officer and we were hitting 121 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 3: it off and for a couple of months before she 122 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 3: realized that I was in an ico and so she 123 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 3: was like, oh, and I'll lose my job if we 124 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 3: continue this, right, And I was like, come along, like 125 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 3: you know firstly who no one needs to know. Yeah, 126 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 3: but yeah, massive stickler for the rules. 127 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 2: Well that all fizzled out as quickly as it started, 128 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 2: as that was a lost love. Yeah, I don't know 129 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 2: you want to talk about, but it was. 130 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 3: I was just like that was what I was showed 131 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 3: me Like, Yeah, people that can get involved in either 132 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:21,840 Speaker 3: being cops or corrections officers usually like. 133 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:23,600 Speaker 2: They love a rule and they'll stick to it. 134 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:27,280 Speaker 3: I had a rule when I was in quarantine at 135 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 3: Parkley Prison. They only let you out of your cells 136 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 3: for half an hour a day to make phone calls 137 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 3: and to get some fresh air, but they and you 138 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,479 Speaker 3: would interact with other inmates in the quarantine wing, but 139 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 3: all the inmates were all the different stages of the quarantine. 140 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 2: So I was on day two. 141 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 3: There were guys on day thirteen, and I try to 142 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:49,839 Speaker 3: point out to the guards that that defeated the entire 143 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 3: purpose of quarantine, because if I'm coming in with COVID 144 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:53,720 Speaker 3: and I'm day two and giving it to a guy 145 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 3: on day fourteen, he's better to go into a gen pop, 146 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 3: you know, into the main yard. 147 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: But you're trying to introduce logic. 148 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, And so I was. 149 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 3: That was one of my first lessons of being a 150 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 3: boy in green, trying to tell the boys in blue 151 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:06,600 Speaker 3: how to do their job. 152 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 2: And they were like no, They just were like, you're 153 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:08,840 Speaker 2: an idiot, shut up. 154 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: Well probably, yeah, excuse me. 155 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 3: But then Parkley Prison had one of the biggest COVID 156 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 3: outbreaks in the whole and every any prison of the country. 157 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: So what are we saying here? They should have listened 158 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: to it and. 159 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 2: Told you so. Well. 160 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 3: I did write a letter to the governor trying to 161 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 3: like point out these flaws that I saw in the 162 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 3: whole COVID system, and then I got moved to Long 163 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 3: Bay jailson after. 164 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: So I wasn't I'm sure You're probably the first prisoner 165 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: that's ever complained about rules within the prison. 166 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 3: I said something to I was like, dear Governor, I 167 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 3: just wanted to point out some errors in this bureaucratic 168 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 3: labyrinth here. 169 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 1: Good word, use of the word. 170 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 3: I remember reading an article about like you saying why 171 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 3: you got into the police force, And I think you know, 172 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 3: when you were a kid you got into I got 173 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 3: up to no good and that you know, you were 174 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 3: in with the wrong crowd, and you saw this moment 175 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 3: of a guy on the run being chased by cops 176 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 3: and you thought that looked pretty cool, and you were like, oh, 177 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 3: I wouldn't mind doing that and being involved in kind 178 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 3: of good verse evil. 179 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 1: It seemed that simple to me. And I've got to 180 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: say I didn't join for any noble reasons to make 181 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: society a better place or any of that. I was 182 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 1: working on the building side. I've been in a ceiling 183 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: all day as an electrician. It was hot, that was 184 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 1: all the inter war was up there. I was itchy. 185 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: I was dirty and out there and just seeing two 186 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 1: cops chasing the bad guy up the road, and I thought, yeah, 187 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:33,079 Speaker 1: that looks like fun. 188 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 3: See some of us probably see that same scenario and 189 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 3: look at the cream and go. That looks like fun. 190 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 3: Run on the rut. 191 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: I took the numbers. There was two cops one month. 192 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: Crook went with the odds. 193 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 2: But I think you're totally right. 194 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 3: Where would you watch police movies, It's usually the cop 195 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 3: has some glorious backstory about the reason I got into 196 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 3: the forces because their dad got shot at liquor store 197 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 3: or something, and they always wanted to catch the back guys. 198 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 3: But the reality, I think is much simpler than that, 199 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 3: is just someone needed a job, or they got into 200 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 3: it because their family were already doing it or something 201 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 3: like that. 202 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: The ones I think, and this is a generalization, one 203 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 1: that thinks I'm joining the change the world or make 204 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: the world a better place. I think there's a burnout 205 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 1: the shelf life in that I learned that. I think 206 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:24,079 Speaker 1: I became that towards the end of my career, in 207 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 1: that I saw what crime would create and the pain 208 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 1: and the suffering from that. So yeah, I bought into that. 209 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 1: But again generalizing any cops that I look up to, 210 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: people that I respect, I don't know any of them 211 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: that have joined specifically to make the world a better place. 212 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 1: This looks like a cool job. Let's do that and 213 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: see how that goes. 214 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:45,599 Speaker 3: It's probably the first few years when you join the 215 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 3: police force. You don't even guest says to that because 216 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 3: you've been given them what the shit kicker jobs. 217 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: And it's so confusing. You go out there and domestic 218 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 1: domestic situations. You're twenty two, twenty three, you've know nothing 219 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 1: about life. They put a uniform on, you give you 220 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 1: a gun, and then you're knocking on the door and 221 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 1: there's a forty year old man arguing with his wife 222 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: and the kids are there, and you're trying to tell 223 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:13,079 Speaker 1: this person how to behave themselves in their own own house. 224 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: You do get thrown in the deep end that I 225 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: started your old stamping ground. I'm still following up some 226 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 1: unsolved crime hornsby the Pacific Highway. Yeah, the grid loot 227 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 1: before the F three and all that. I'm wearing a uniform, 228 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:30,719 Speaker 1: and normally, if there's a break in the traffic, you 229 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: run across the road. I didn't realize the power of 230 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 1: the uniform because I did that like I normally would. 231 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 1: There was a break in the traffic, run across the road, 232 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:40,439 Speaker 1: and all these cars slammed on their brakes, because there's 233 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: a uniform officer on the highway. I'm just trying to 234 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:47,839 Speaker 1: cross away from the cross science. But yeah, it's an 235 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 1: interesting experience. But I feel for people because you do 236 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 1: get prone in the deep end. 237 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:53,319 Speaker 2: Does it give you a bit of an ego when 238 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 2: you realize the power of the uniform? 239 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,320 Speaker 1: It can, But if you take the right look at it, 240 00:10:58,320 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 1: it's also a little bit scared. 241 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. 242 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 3: I think that there's so many instances of over policing. 243 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 3: And I'm not a big fan of like a million 244 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 3: sniffer dogs at New Guney station picking up guys with 245 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 3: ten dollars a weed. But I think everyone's on their 246 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 3: side when it comes to sovereign citizens these. 247 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:17,559 Speaker 2: I'm always on. 248 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 3: The side of the cops when these people are saying 249 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 3: that they don't have to obey the law because they 250 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 3: don't they haven't signed a contract with the government and 251 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 3: all this kind of stuff. 252 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: Mate, I know they are real try hards, aren't they, 253 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: And they would be so frustrating and annoying. Where do 254 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: you even start with that? 255 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 2: No one has sympathy with the sovereign citizens. 256 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: Okay, we're voting there now, all. 257 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 3: Right, let's get through some of these questions. We've got 258 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,239 Speaker 3: a lot of ones that people have sent through on Instagram. 259 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 2: What's the craziest story that you've ever had while policing. 260 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 1: Where do you start with that look. Policing you get 261 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: in situations that you'd never expect to expect to be in. 262 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: I was kicked off a plane to Pakistan one time, 263 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: and that was doing escort duty, taking a prisoner back 264 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 1: to Pakistan on a commercial flight. I was with my 265 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 1: work partner, Jason Evers, and we're excited, like, this trip's 266 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: come up. We're going to take this prisoner back to 267 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 1: Pakistan and then we get to spend three or four 268 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 1: days overseas and enjoy yourself. 269 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:22,839 Speaker 3: The cops put their hand up for those kind of 270 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 3: jobs because that sounds three holiday. 271 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 1: It was. It was back back in the day. It 272 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: was something that if you got in they and they'd 273 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 1: hire the cops because you had you knew how to 274 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 1: control people and the different different powers. So basically, until 275 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 1: the plane takes off, you haven't got a lot of authority, 276 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 1: but in the air you're there, you're escorting the escorting 277 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: the prisoner. We walked out of the homicide office and 278 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: laughing at our mates and friends in the office, going 279 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: we're off to Pakistan tonight and we're going to have 280 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 1: a great time blah blah blah, and then we're going here, 281 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: going there. I had the whole holiday planned work trip. 282 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: The prisoner's handed over to us at the airport. We 283 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: get on the plane. We're down the back of the plane, 284 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 1: three seats. We put the prisoner near the window suit. 285 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: I'm seeing the middle suait. Jason's on the right hand side. 286 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 1: Jason's looking at what movies are on for the flight, 287 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 1: because it's going to be a long flight, and the 288 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:20,359 Speaker 1: prisoner's tapping his leg just and getting agitated, getting agitated 289 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:22,680 Speaker 1: like that, and I've gone, this is this is not 290 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: good because previously prisoners had gone to the bathroom and 291 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 1: smashed the toilets up before the flight takes off, so 292 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 1: therefore they can't get can't get de ported. So I'm 293 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:36,719 Speaker 1: talking to this prisoner beside me and going you're right, 294 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:38,559 Speaker 1: and he's gone, I'm going to get a toilet, And 295 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: I said, you're not going to the toilet, and he's 296 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: basically said, well, I'm going to piss myself. I'm going 297 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 1: to do this, and carrying on. Got to the point 298 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 1: all the passengers are getting on. I've said to Jason, 299 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,439 Speaker 1: we've got a problem here. Will take him, take him 300 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 1: down to the toilet, and we won't let him lock 301 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 1: himself in because that's when they smash it up and 302 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: then the plane can't take off. We're down the back 303 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:02,320 Speaker 1: of the plane and this is how it's basically going. 304 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: I've got the toilet door open. He's yelling out, I'm 305 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:07,680 Speaker 1: not a terrorist. I'm a human bean. At the top 306 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: of his voice. 307 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 2: If you could. 308 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: Picture the whole of the plane turning up and looking 309 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: and I'm going settle down, settle down. He started swearing, 310 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: and Jason's doing his best standing in front of us, 311 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: going nothing to see here is just afraid of flying. 312 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 1: And this person's screaming out, I'm not a terrorist, I'm 313 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: a human bean. I knew I'd lost the battle. And 314 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: he's struggling, so we're fighting. I'm bouncing in and bouncing 315 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 1: out and coming back in and trying to restrain him. 316 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: And then he starts swearing, and I knew I'd lost 317 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: the battle. At this point in time, I said, could 318 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 1: you please not swear? There's women and children on the plane, 319 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: and then the k pilot comes down is there a 320 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: problem here. No, we got kicked off the plane that's 321 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: pretty lonely placed at Sydney Airport at ten o'clock at 322 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 1: night when you're waiting for your bags to come out. 323 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 3: I mean, how he's supposed to get this guy to 324 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 3: point B if he's going. 325 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: To well this is like quite a few trips. I 326 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 1: did one to to Paris and it was with my 327 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: partner Pam Young, who I've seen at the time, So 328 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: it was a great trip. Do you want to go 329 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 1: to Paris for the weekend? Yeah, great, we'll go to Paris. 330 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: And this French national had arrived at the airport and 331 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: turned it on with customs or the federal police, and 332 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: so he was going to be the poor that wasn't 333 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: allowed into the country. They contact us Friday morning. You 334 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: right to go to Paris this weekend? Yeah, okay, we'll 335 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 1: do that. I'd been up on a murder investigation for 336 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: hadn't slept for a couple of days. Pick him up 337 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: at the airport. We get on the plane and he 338 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: misbehaved the whole time. There was a stopover at Singapore. 339 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 1: Pam had to get off with the passports. We've got 340 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: no real power. Once we're in Singapore. It's a little 341 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 1: bit of bluff and get off the plane. And then 342 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: he's running around the plane for about two hours. I'm 343 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: chasing him. He's only a little fellow, which was lucky. 344 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: I'm holding him. Didn't sleep, satchels of sugar, he just 345 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: kept drinking, like just eating, and it was just wide. 346 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: I remember he had a Digiti do with him that 347 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: was part of his property, which is quite strange. We 348 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: got the Heathrow Airport. We hadn't slept now for twenty 349 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 1: four hours because he misbehaved the whole time. And at 350 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 1: Heathrow Airport, I'm pointing, pointing, because he couldn't speak English, 351 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: pointing to the police walking around with their weapons, and 352 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 1: I'm pointing to them and going, you misbehave you this 353 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 1: is what happens. And I've got his passport and I'm 354 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: pretending to rip it up in our broken English. He said, 355 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: if I take him to the smoking you know the 356 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: little fish tank smoking bays I had. I had to 357 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: sit in the smoking bay with him for two hours. 358 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 1: I didn't smoke. He's sitting there and smoking. Then we 359 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 1: got him on the plane and got him. 360 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 3: He said, if you took him there he'll behave. 361 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, he'll behave. So that was a fair compromise. But 362 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 1: you get experience experiences like that, and like I've had 363 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 1: a lot of homicide experiences. I also sung Happy Birthday 364 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: to John Howard when he was Prime Minister because I 365 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: was looking after him and I had to put in 366 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: two dollars for his birthday cake. And there was only 367 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: about five of Cinny's office singing Happy Birthday to the 368 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: Prime minister. You don't expect to get experiences that. I 369 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 1: don't know tide us. No, Actually I'm not the political 370 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 1: leaning one way or the other. But I looked after 371 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: him a bit and he was quite a nice man. 372 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: But yeah, he's tied us. He made a chip in 373 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 1: for his birthday cake or his staff. 374 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:26,919 Speaker 2: Surely that's getting written off somewhere. Well, how do you 375 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 2: explain that expense that one? Yeah, who's the dumbest crook 376 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 2: you've ever had to deal with. 377 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 1: Actually, some in their dumbness are at quite smart because 378 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,919 Speaker 1: sometimes I come up with a real intricate interview plan 379 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: or operation that Okay, we're going to do this, then 380 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 1: that person will react that way, we'll catch him. There. 381 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 1: Really complex plans have the briefing, got the whiteboard, do 382 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: the whole thing, interview plan. I'm going to nail this person. 383 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: When we get in the interview room and you go 384 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 1: were you there? No, Well you show him exhibit. He's 385 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 1: a fado of you actually arriving there, your fingerprint from 386 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: being at the location. You just nail him on every 387 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: single point. And have you done it? No, because he's agreen. 388 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 1: Do you agree there your fingerprints? Yep? Do you agree 389 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:17,120 Speaker 1: that's a faith of you? 390 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 2: Yes? 391 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 1: Do you agree that's at the premises where the person 392 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 1: was killed? Yes, you lay it all out and so 393 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 1: you think, okay, the obvious next place one. 394 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 2: Why did you do it? 395 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 1: I didn't? Yeah, So they outsmart your. First time I 396 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: arrested the prison escape from prison, I thought there'd be 397 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:37,359 Speaker 1: a dramatic like you see on TV and guns drawn, 398 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: a heavy situation, which sometimes they are with escapees. But 399 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:44,200 Speaker 1: this boat, I've saw the come around the corner and 400 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: he's just standing there. I said, should you be in prison? 401 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,120 Speaker 1: And he looked down embarrassed and said, yes. 402 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:54,359 Speaker 3: See they're not all John Killick escaping in helicopter. 403 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: So I would like to burn on that case. And 404 00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 1: I know he's a made of yours and the maide 405 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: of mine being a helicopter that shouldn't have worked, but 406 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 1: at work, it's just unbelievable. 407 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:06,360 Speaker 2: It sounds like something from a movie. 408 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 1: And even the Russian girlfriend and the hijacking the helicopter, 409 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:10,680 Speaker 1: it was perfect. 410 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:15,360 Speaker 3: But yes, the most common cases, I think there would 411 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,640 Speaker 3: be ones where it's someone just breaks out of somewhere 412 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:21,639 Speaker 3: and then they caught within an hour or two. 413 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. 414 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's the thing. So you go in the 415 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,439 Speaker 1: You've got to laugh at some summer situations. Sometimes the 416 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:33,880 Speaker 1: crooks can laugh at the situation they find themselves in. 417 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 1: So yeah, I keep an open mind. But there's a 418 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:42,880 Speaker 1: lot of different stuff in terms of dramatic things that 419 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: I've been involved in. We were doing there was a 420 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: drug plantation. It was only International Park and out near 421 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 1: Wiseman's Ferry and myself I was running the operation. There 422 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 1: was two other cops. We've gone out there and this 423 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 1: blake had some attack dogs like big and shepherds or 424 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,399 Speaker 1: rot wheels or whatever around the plantation. We had to 425 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: catch him at the location because it was on the 426 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:10,360 Speaker 1: National park ere it wasn't on his property. So we're 427 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 1: sitting sitting there watching watching the movements, and you know, 428 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 1: we parked the police car five kilometers away and crept 429 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,439 Speaker 1: in through the bush and we're watching and we've split up, 430 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:25,160 Speaker 1: and I'm with my one offs either and I had 431 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: this younger detective keeping an eye on the premises and 432 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 1: I'm sitting there. I won't mention his name, but Paul 433 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:35,640 Speaker 1: was the blake I was paired up with. And we're 434 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:39,159 Speaker 1: sitting there. All of a sudden, we hear this just 435 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: growling and then yeah, just dogs sprinting for us. This 436 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: is a COVID operation, so we couldn't scream like we 437 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: wanted to scream. And we take off and we're sprinting, 438 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: and I still remember it at the time, stood still. 439 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:55,159 Speaker 1: We couldn't pull out guns because we're trying to keep 440 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: it quiet. We couldn't scream, even though it was scared, 441 00:20:57,840 --> 00:20:59,640 Speaker 1: and we're running, so what is it. It's a muffled 442 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: We're running, running through the bush. And then we get 443 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:05,359 Speaker 1: to this cliff and we've got nowhere to go, and 444 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 1: these dogs are going to they're going to go us. 445 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:09,119 Speaker 1: And Paul and I looked at each other and we 446 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 1: picked up two lumps of wood and we've just come 447 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 1: at the dogs without screaming, and they're shit, these dudes 448 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: are serious, and then run off. We see there. Shit 449 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: that was close. That was so close. And then I 450 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: hear three or four gun shots and I hear my 451 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: name being called out, Gary, I've been shot, and Paul 452 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: and I have looked at it, and then we've run 453 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,400 Speaker 1: in the direction of where the shots come and we're 454 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 1: sprinting back to there, and my mate, he had come 455 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: around the corner of the bush. We're sprinting and he's 456 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:42,639 Speaker 1: just covered in blood and he's just Gary and then 457 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: collapsed and I thought, shit, what's happened here? What happened? 458 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,679 Speaker 1: The two dogs attacked him and he was wrestling on 459 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 1: the ground and they're really going at him, and he's 460 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 1: trying to get his gun out and he's got one 461 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,399 Speaker 1: trying to keep the dog off his face, and he 462 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: shot it and shot sort of half his half, his 463 00:21:58,640 --> 00:21:59,120 Speaker 1: hand off. 464 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 2: But through the dog as well. 465 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,880 Speaker 1: Got the dog ran off like the dogs took off. 466 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 1: So we're left there with our injured colleague and we're 467 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: cars five kilometers away. We've got no communications. We've got 468 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:17,119 Speaker 1: portable radios, but this is before mobile phones, and so 469 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,160 Speaker 1: we've looked for a house and we're carrying. I've taken 470 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: my shirt off, we've bandied him up, and we're looking 471 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:24,879 Speaker 1: for a house. Going through the bush. We found this 472 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,639 Speaker 1: house and you can't make this shit up. There's this 473 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 1: lady and I think she was an alcoholic because we've 474 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,160 Speaker 1: come there. We've gone where police have got a bloke 475 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 1: covered in blood bleeding, and we're gone. We need if 476 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 1: you've got a phone, we need to use your phone. 477 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 1: And she said, would you like a drink? And she 478 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: went a drink, but can we use your phone? We 479 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: ended up the ambulance wouldn't come in until the police 480 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 1: came in and cleared because this blake had firearms, and 481 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 1: so you get experiences like. 482 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 2: That, and I mean, that's lovely hospitality. 483 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 1: Well but I still remember remember that. And luckily my 484 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 1: mate Paul, he was a nurse before he joined the cops, 485 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 1: because our injured colleague was starting to hyperventilate. And you 486 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,239 Speaker 1: learn things too each day, because Paul said, is there 487 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: a vacuum cleaner bag here? And I'm thinking, God, we've 488 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,120 Speaker 1: got the owner of the house wanting to drink. You're 489 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,679 Speaker 1: looking for the vacuum cleaner and just getting in the 490 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 1: blow into a bag just so he wasn't hyper ventilating. 491 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:26,959 Speaker 1: So you have situations like that and tragic what happened. 492 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: We ended up catching the blow, but you get paid 493 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:34,679 Speaker 1: for that. That's an adventure like it's it's exciting times 494 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 1: it is. 495 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 3: How do you decompress after a situation like that? Because 496 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:39,880 Speaker 3: I would find I just want to go. 497 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:41,639 Speaker 2: To the pub for a few beers straight after a 498 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:42,399 Speaker 2: situation like that. 499 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, we do. And I've learned because I was involved 500 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: in a couple of incidents and another one where a 501 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: crook was shot and killed when I was speaking to him, 502 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: and you get put in This is before people really 503 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,200 Speaker 1: understood post traumatic stress in the way people should be 504 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: decompressed from incidents like that. So you get put in 505 00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:03,719 Speaker 1: the room with all the cops sitting sitting around and 506 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 1: a psychologists or whatever it'll come in and go, has 507 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 1: anyone got a problem here? And all the tough guys 508 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: and girls go no, no, so And that second not 509 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,119 Speaker 1: so much, the one where the cop was shot with 510 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 1: the dog thing. I process that, but we did go 511 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: out on the drink that night. 512 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:22,719 Speaker 2: But what that's it. They just everyone's sitting a room 513 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 2: going is anyone got a problem? 514 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,440 Speaker 1: Everyone got a problem. Then you get dragged into internal affairs, 515 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 1: like then you're getting interviewed like you've done something wrong, 516 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 1: because that's the starting point. And then the one piece 517 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 1: of advice they say, look, don't go out drinking and 518 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,160 Speaker 1: what just as it gets what they think the first 519 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: thing is you go out and you get on the 520 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: piss big time. And after that crooklet was shot and killed. 521 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,920 Speaker 1: I remember I went out, got on the drink, and 522 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 1: you know, we're being tough guys, you know, okay, this 523 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: is the world we operate in. But I remember I 524 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,399 Speaker 1: got home that night and I just I was going 525 00:24:58,440 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 1: to leave the cops. I want to become a Floria 526 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: still something. So it took a couple of days to 527 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 1: process that. 528 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 3: Even these days we talk about opening up and it 529 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,119 Speaker 3: ain't weak to speak, but if you're in that kind 530 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 3: of situation with a whole bunch of coppers and you've 531 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 3: had that situation, they might as well say, as anyone 532 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 3: here a pussy, because. 533 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:17,400 Speaker 2: That's exactly how. 534 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: We interpreted that conversation. I'm really upset by that. It 535 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: was rather the traumatic. Look, they got better now, like 536 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 1: in homicide, we're meant to see a psychologist every six 537 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 1: months and yeah with bravado, but it gave an opportunity 538 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,880 Speaker 1: where you could actually say, well, I'm doing a bit 539 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: tough on things. So society has learned that you can 540 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,639 Speaker 1: actually talk about it. But sometimes, you know, getting getting 541 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 1: on the drink was a good thing, and early days 542 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 1: in the detectives that probably went too far. Like quite often, yeah, 543 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 1: we'd finish the day and then there'd be a long lunch. 544 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 1: It turns into a dinner and all that, and you 545 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,679 Speaker 1: got into that habit, but that was the day of 546 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:01,680 Speaker 1: the corporate lunches and all that. But some funny it's 547 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: just making me think about some of the lunches as 548 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,200 Speaker 1: a young detective, and I think this is statute barred 549 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: now or I can't remember the names of people even 550 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 1: if they wanted me to come for a drink of 551 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 1: the local Chinese restaurant, as you do as a detective 552 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,120 Speaker 1: on a Friday afternoon. And there's this boat sitting there. 553 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 1: There was into state police down. There's a bloat there 554 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 1: that was dressed in not the detectives of the outfit. 555 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 1: And we're sitting sitting talking and he's gone up to 556 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: get the toilet. I said, who's this boat? I know 557 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:34,360 Speaker 1: he's a prisoner, we're taking him back. 558 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 3: It was yeah, he's just moving around for really a 559 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 3: little a. 560 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 1: Little bit loose, but those were the days and they 561 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: had to change. But it was funny and the things 562 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:48,879 Speaker 1: that things that could happen. 563 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 3: Do you think that, like all your interactions with people 564 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 3: that are constantly lying to you to protect themselves and 565 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 3: also just the crimes you've seen, makes you a bit 566 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 3: of a cynic. Yeah. 567 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 1: I don't know whether cynic's the right word, but I 568 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 1: don't buy into you could sit here and look at 569 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 1: me to you blue in the face going I didn't 570 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:10,919 Speaker 1: do it. I didn't do it. That doesn't mean a 571 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:15,119 Speaker 1: lot to me. I read body language and yeah, a 572 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,640 Speaker 1: bit of instinct, but looking at the facts with the instinct. 573 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: But cynic in that if someone says they haven't done 574 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: everyone's got secrets and you find that out and people 575 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 1: are prepared to lie to protect themselves or protect other people. 576 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,199 Speaker 1: So a little bit cynical in that, Oh, but they 577 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 1: said he didn't do it. I had some detectives. There's 578 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: one particular detective, a young detective that came into the 579 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 1: office and quiet saw the guy got a crook in there, 580 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 1: and this is me talking like old school cop. But 581 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: there's a crook in there that's done this job one 582 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,679 Speaker 1: hundred percent. And in work, his name's not John, but 583 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:53,639 Speaker 1: we'll call him John just for the sake of the story. 584 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: John goes in there and you see the crook talking 585 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 1: to him, and I'm watching, just seeing how he's going 586 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,400 Speaker 1: in the interview room, and John comes out and goes, 587 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: I don't think he did it, And really, John, and 588 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 1: so I don't think he Yeah, he's got a skill 589 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: set that maybe didn't relate to being the detective. And 590 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 1: then go in there and go, mate, you're saying that 591 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:19,239 Speaker 1: you didn't do it. We've got you on this this 592 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 1: and that, Yeah, I did it. Looks like he's done it. 593 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 1: So I suppose you learn a little bit, but sinning yeah, 594 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 1: I'd like to think I'm not a synic. 595 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 3: Do you think that it's sometimes unhelpful having that perspective 596 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:33,879 Speaker 3: because you're dealing with people that are lying to all 597 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 3: the time, that sometimes it can leak into your personal 598 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 3: life or friends or family, that when you kind of 599 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 3: catch him. 600 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 2: Out of a lie, you could probably let it go. 601 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 2: But you're using your detective skills. 602 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: I have been and whether it's a domestic situation, family situation, 603 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 1: or friends. I'm thinking, I know I've got the skills 604 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 1: to break you down. Though it could be a harmless 605 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 1: thing where your mate said, no, I didn't do it, 606 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,160 Speaker 1: and you're thinking, I could prove that he's done it 607 00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: if we got the CCTV, if we got this, got 608 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 1: that there. There is an element of that. 609 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 3: You're at the pub, your mate says, you're gonna have 610 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 3: to get the next round. I forgot my wallet, and 611 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 3: you know for a fact you sort of bolts in 612 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 3: his pants walking in, and then he's like, you're right, Gary, 613 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 3: Actually I've got a gambling problem. I lost all my money, 614 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 3: but I do have my wallet. You're right, you're happy now. 615 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 3: I don't feel a better now that I've busted the case. 616 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 2: But you're right. 617 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: That is that is something. And I suppose in domestic 618 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 1: relationships too, you've got that propensity to really break it 619 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 1: down and go, oh that that doesn't quite add up. 620 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: If I'm looking here and there, and the time when 621 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: you go the timeline or whatever for a friend or 622 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 1: family member, you know you've gone too far. But my 623 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 1: kids they hated it because they thought the cops, as 624 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 1: kids do I've got special powers. And you know, if, 625 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 1: as you do as a young kid, you're going to 626 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: lie to your parents. Now, I wasn't doing that. Wasn't 627 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 1: doing that. You realize what they do for work. I 628 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 1: do know, and that they think there's special powers that 629 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 1: you haven't actually gotten. I've got some confessions that way 630 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 1: from the how many. 631 00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 3: How many times would their friends have been nervous about 632 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 3: any kind of trouble that we're gonna get up to 633 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 3: because like your old man's a cop. 634 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: My son got caught out big time in the one. 635 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 1: Who've done a lot of things that yeah, I probably 636 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 1: shouldn't shouldn't talk about. I was at one stage I 637 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 1: was seenor person in Perth and I had a place 638 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 1: up on the coast, on the central coast, so my 639 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: house was empty when my son was a teenager and 640 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 1: he knew I was going to Perth for that weekend. 641 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 1: I'm thinking what would I be doing when I'm a teenager? 642 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: I'll be when are you going dad? What time are 643 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 1: you coming back? What flight do you on? That type stuff? 644 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: And he never really asked me questions. So I'm thinking, 645 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 1: my god, I've raised a nerd. He's not exploiting the 646 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 1: situation of an empty house. Not until he got older. 647 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: Eighteen nineteen, I'm finding out some of the parties that 648 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 1: he had had at that house, and they were apparently 649 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: legendary parties because Jubi's old old man has gone over 650 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 1: the perth. 651 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 2: Wow. 652 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 3: So you were there thinking you're too smart for him, 653 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,800 Speaker 3: because otherwise he would give he'd be a dig giveaway. Yeah, 654 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 3: but he was too smart for him. 655 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 1: And his mates say, remember the time we nearly dropped 656 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 1: that and we had to clean this up and clean 657 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 1: that up because I'd go through and go it doesn't 658 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 1: look like they've done anything. But he got caught out 659 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 1: big time. The classic. I'm staying at Matt's and Matt's 660 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 1: staying here and so no one really knows where they're staying. 661 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 1: And I got there was an armed robber craving havoc 662 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,040 Speaker 1: around Chatswood. So I'd been out till two o'clock in 663 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 1: the morning. I'm driving home and there's this pack of 664 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 1: kids in the coastal town where we were living, probably 665 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 1: forty or fifty kids that have just some marked police 666 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 1: car just driven. I'm driving up there and they swarmed 667 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 1: around the car like a pack of sheep. They were 668 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 1: just up to cause trouble, you know, thirteen fourteen year olds. 669 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,719 Speaker 1: I coached my son's soccer team, so I knew some 670 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 1: of the faces. I'm looking around, go that's interesting. And 671 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: then one of his best mates. I'm sitting there because 672 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 1: they've stopped the car. I could couldn't do anything, and 673 00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 1: I've wound the window down and he stuck his head 674 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 1: in there to say something will be funny, and he's 675 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 1: just gone, shit, it's Jubo's dead. And I watched the 676 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 1: kids just run and disperse. Jake's out all night. He's 677 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 1: come home the next morning. He's walking up the stairs 678 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 1: and he's not looking at me. Did you have a 679 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,960 Speaker 1: good night last night? And he's gone, I've been caught, 680 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 1: haven't I? And I've got what gave gave her the 681 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 1: way said the car. I was hoping that wasn't your car. 682 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 3: So my old man was a teacher at school in 683 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 3: sa in Waronga, and luckily I'm the fourth of five, 684 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 3: so mellowed out over time. But my elder sister was 685 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 3: at a party when she was like sixteen, and my 686 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 3: dad taught it the same school that she went to, 687 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 3: and he went to pick her up and he realized 688 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 3: that there was no parents a parental division party, and 689 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 3: he knew all the kids the party, so when he 690 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 3: went home, he called all their parents and my sister 691 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 3: was like a you know, she was a leper. 692 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 2: No one wanted to associated after that. So that's a teacher. 693 00:32:58,720 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 2: So I feel for that. 694 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:01,960 Speaker 3: When you when your best mate's dad is a cop, 695 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 3: you're like, oh shit, you know, we're gonna be careful. 696 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 1: You know, And I don't. I don't think they enjoyed it. 697 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 1: I really really don't. And there was nothing cool about 698 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 1: your dad being a cop, and theyre just and a 699 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 1: couple of times when I was with them, I had 700 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 1: to step in and you know, pull the badge on 701 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 1: different things, and as you are at that age as 702 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 1: a teenage, you just so embarrassed and they're just going, 703 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 1: don't do this, don't do this, and okay, just wait here. 704 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 3: What are the cases that you would say that you're 705 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 3: most proud of of the course your career. 706 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 1: Look, there's a lot of I've done some high profile, 707 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 1: high profile cases. The cases that I'm proud of are 708 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 1: the ones that I bought a skill set or the 709 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 1: team that I'm working with, we bought the skill set 710 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:45,720 Speaker 1: to that matter to make sure that they get solved, 711 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: and the ones. The longer you stay in homicide, you 712 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 1: get to the point where you're looking for a challenge 713 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 1: with an investigation. That sounds cocky or whatever, but there's 714 00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 1: some murders that are pretty easy to solve. Some of 715 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 1: the things. I'm proud of it just where you get 716 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 1: called out because there's a homicide detective. You're on call. 717 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,959 Speaker 1: So if there's a murder anywhere in the state, you 718 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:12,279 Speaker 1: get notified as a homicide team and then you get 719 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,880 Speaker 1: called out to that location. You might only spend a 720 00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,760 Speaker 1: day or two there, but you're making some real hard, 721 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 1: sharp decisions, and as a result of those decisions, it 722 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,360 Speaker 1: might be as simple as sees that car get the 723 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:27,279 Speaker 1: statement from that person. These matters get solved. They're the 724 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,719 Speaker 1: ones that I'm generalizing here. They're the ones I'm proud of. 725 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,239 Speaker 1: Bowerble Obviously it comes to mind, and this is one 726 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 1: that people throw it back at me. You haven't solved it. 727 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 1: It hasn't been solved by the courts, but I know 728 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,120 Speaker 1: I made a difference in that community, the indigenous community 729 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:47,279 Speaker 1: where Evelyn Clinton and Colin were murdered, and the way 730 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 1: that they were treated at the start, and I came 731 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 1: in on the reinvestigation. I'm extremely proud of that in 732 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:57,879 Speaker 1: that showing that yeah, we do care like people care. 733 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,960 Speaker 1: They taught me a lot about a lot about myself, 734 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:02,640 Speaker 1: a lot about the way I lived my life, and 735 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:06,920 Speaker 1: a lot about being a police officer. So many different 736 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 1: ones that I'm proud of. I don't like to single 737 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 1: them out because every life is so important, but in 738 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,760 Speaker 1: a general sense, the ones that you're told you can't 739 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:17,799 Speaker 1: solve are the ones that inspire me. 740 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, are there ones where you kind of got close 741 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 3: to losing hope? You're like, I think I just and 742 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 3: then something clicked. Yeah. 743 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. Murder of Barbara Saunders was the first, and that 744 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:32,320 Speaker 1: was back in two thousand and it was a lady 745 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:36,760 Speaker 1: that was shot at Normanhurst Railway stations coming home from shopping. 746 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:41,440 Speaker 1: And that was the first investigation that I led as 747 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 1: a detective detective sergeant, and I threw everything I had 748 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,920 Speaker 1: into that investigation. I wasn't sure where it was going 749 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,080 Speaker 1: to go, and then we got a breakthrough after about 750 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,799 Speaker 1: four or five, six, six weeks and which led to 751 00:35:55,840 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 1: solving the crime. I'm really pleased that pleased with that 752 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 1: and that was linking crimes. It's an interesting story and 753 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:09,080 Speaker 1: I talk about this sometimes, lecturing that you've got to 754 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,920 Speaker 1: address the little crimes before they become a big, big crime. 755 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,799 Speaker 1: So what happened with the murder of Barbara, and it 756 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:16,680 Speaker 1: was a tragedy. She's just in the wrong place at 757 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,399 Speaker 1: the wrong time. Some kids, and they were only kids. 758 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,480 Speaker 1: That's sad all around. Some kids started breaking into a 759 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:26,440 Speaker 1: school cantem and that wasn't investigated properly. They kept breaking 760 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,799 Speaker 1: into the school cantem got the way of that. Then 761 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:33,720 Speaker 1: they started breaking into houses and again, if you really 762 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 1: put the resources in, you could have solved it. But 763 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 1: it just wasn't true. That wasn't recognized as a potentially 764 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: serious crime. They broke into a house that had a 765 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:47,319 Speaker 1: gun and they've stolen the gun. Then they've done an 766 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:51,480 Speaker 1: armed robbery at the local liquor store, and so the 767 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 1: crimes escalating. Then Barbara, who's been at Christmas shopping with 768 00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,879 Speaker 1: some of the old friends, had come back, got off 769 00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:04,960 Speaker 1: the train and these kids fronted her and wanted her bag, 770 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,239 Speaker 1: and she resisted. They've panicked and they've shot her and 771 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:12,000 Speaker 1: killed her. That was such a such a such a 772 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:16,520 Speaker 1: tragedy and we got the breakthrough in that came when 773 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,799 Speaker 1: we linked some of her Oh that's right, some of 774 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:24,240 Speaker 1: her stolen stolen property was used at the service station. 775 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:29,640 Speaker 1: And we and I'll say this it's not giving away methodology, 776 00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 1: but we recreated the crime scene a week after after 777 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 1: she was murdered, and one of the kids that was 778 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,239 Speaker 1: involved in the murder came walking through the crime scene 779 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:41,480 Speaker 1: and we got his name and that's how we linked 780 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:43,000 Speaker 1: linked the crime and. 781 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:45,080 Speaker 2: Came in for a sticky beak. 782 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,239 Speaker 1: It came in a curiosity. We've made a point of 783 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 1: recreating the scene. We want to speak to people in 784 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,279 Speaker 1: the era, and he couldn't help himself and came in. 785 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:59,080 Speaker 1: And that happens a lot in investigations. People ingratiate themselves 786 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:02,880 Speaker 1: in the investigation because I think they're I won't say curious, 787 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:04,880 Speaker 1: because it's not curious. I think they're just troubled and 788 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:06,839 Speaker 1: worried and just want to find out what's going on. 789 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:08,960 Speaker 3: I mean, you see that in movies at the time 790 00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 3: of the serial killer is still lurking around because it's 791 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:12,319 Speaker 3: like an ego thing. 792 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,279 Speaker 2: They think that they're invisible or whatever. They want to 793 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:15,719 Speaker 2: see it. They want to have a close eye on 794 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:17,200 Speaker 2: what the investigation. 795 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:20,560 Speaker 1: Is doing one hundred percent, one hundred percent, and you've 796 00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,239 Speaker 1: got to you've got to look look at that and think, 797 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:27,080 Speaker 1: why is this person. I have another one that it 798 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:31,960 Speaker 1: was a horrible, horrible murder an elderly lady and she 799 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 1: was sexually assaulted in a home in their eighties. And 800 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,920 Speaker 1: there was a bloke that really he kept walking around 801 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 1: around the area saying that, yeah, he's a suspect for 802 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,359 Speaker 1: this job. As it turned out that wasn't. He wasn't 803 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:49,080 Speaker 1: the suspect. But people, it's funny how people react when 804 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:50,439 Speaker 1: someone's been murdered. 805 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:51,719 Speaker 3: And what he actually had done it. 806 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,120 Speaker 1: No, No, he hadn't, He hadn't done it. 807 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:56,880 Speaker 3: Oh, he was just an attention seeker. 808 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:02,239 Speaker 1: He yeah, he he was a widder. He was a widder. 809 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,840 Speaker 1: And you come across a lot of widows. And that's 810 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:08,239 Speaker 1: and when I say that, I say it without any 811 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,800 Speaker 1: mental health background or knowledge. They're just with that. 812 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 3: That's muddy the waters. You know, when you're trying to 813 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:15,319 Speaker 3: talk to someone and identify a suspect, and there's some 814 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:18,319 Speaker 3: people who just like answer questions really badly because they're 815 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:18,960 Speaker 3: just odd people. 816 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 1: And you've got to be wary of that, because I 817 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,399 Speaker 1: call it like a litmus test in that I'll ask 818 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:26,920 Speaker 1: a question and just see a reaction from a person. 819 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,480 Speaker 1: But you've got a factor in some people don't think rationally. 820 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,280 Speaker 1: And I always make the point a lot of times. 821 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,400 Speaker 1: And I was taught this by the people that I 822 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 1: looked up to, and I tried to pass this knowledge 823 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:41,360 Speaker 1: on to other people that when someone commits a crime, 824 00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:43,719 Speaker 1: and I'll be going, look this happened, and we do 825 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:45,520 Speaker 1: have the white boards, like we say we love the 826 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,480 Speaker 1: white boards in the incident room and going we've got this, 827 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,600 Speaker 1: we've got that. And someone will say, but why would 828 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:53,600 Speaker 1: you do that? And I always throw back, you're trying 829 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,160 Speaker 1: to put the rational thought into an irrational mind, and 830 00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:57,359 Speaker 1: you've got to be mindful of that. 831 00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,160 Speaker 2: There's good cop back cops still workers. 832 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,719 Speaker 1: I love it. Do you switch it up or you 833 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:06,640 Speaker 1: when it really confuses bad cop, bad cop? That sends 834 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:10,040 Speaker 1: them into a skin, But it works. And I say this, 835 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,000 Speaker 1: good cop, bad cop. It's human nature. You want to 836 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,799 Speaker 1: be yeah, you want to be liked, or most most 837 00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:19,640 Speaker 1: people do. So you gravitate towards a person that's showing 838 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:23,720 Speaker 1: you the empathy and that. And the other thing, Andrew 839 00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:27,520 Speaker 1: is that people why do people confess? Sometimes I've come 840 00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,000 Speaker 1: out of an interview room and go, how did you 841 00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,960 Speaker 1: get that person to confess? Quite often you think of 842 00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:35,279 Speaker 1: the worst thing you've done in your life, and no, 843 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:39,000 Speaker 1: don't Actually, I don't want you to. I don't want 844 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:42,080 Speaker 1: you to confess worst thing you've done in your life 845 00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:44,680 Speaker 1: and the burden that you carry with it. But if 846 00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:46,480 Speaker 1: you've got the best made or someone close to you 847 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:48,640 Speaker 1: that you can confess and that it takes a little 848 00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:51,719 Speaker 1: bit of pressure off. Imagine if you murdered someone, the 849 00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:54,600 Speaker 1: weight of pressure that you're carrying on your shoulders. And 850 00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:58,319 Speaker 1: I've honestly seeing some people just unburden themselves in that 851 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,120 Speaker 1: you know, it's not intimidate, it's not coming over the 852 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,120 Speaker 1: top of them. They just want to clear their conscience 853 00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:07,480 Speaker 1: and go, yeah this happened, and you see it, You 854 00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:11,440 Speaker 1: see it changes. They go from just tense and then 855 00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,279 Speaker 1: they feel better. Now feel better. They're going to jail 856 00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:16,920 Speaker 1: for twenty years. It's not the real You're not selling something, 857 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,400 Speaker 1: you're not selling the house to them. But quite often 858 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:21,799 Speaker 1: confessions come from the fact that they just want to 859 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:24,960 Speaker 1: light that load. Yeah, yeah, because you carry it like 860 00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:30,440 Speaker 1: imagine and yeah, people, you've committed a serious crime, cops 861 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:32,439 Speaker 1: can come and get your twenty years to thirty years 862 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:34,480 Speaker 1: down the track. So it's a load to load to carry. 863 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:38,000 Speaker 3: What about when you come at someone hard the bad 864 00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:41,560 Speaker 3: crop and you're trying to get information out of them, 865 00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:43,920 Speaker 3: but it turns out they're they're the wrong guy. 866 00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:46,960 Speaker 2: That must be hard as well. 867 00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:48,400 Speaker 3: To feel like I was a total prick to this 868 00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:49,840 Speaker 3: person and they were totally innocent. 869 00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:55,120 Speaker 1: When I've lectured in detective courses or the homicide courses, 870 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:59,400 Speaker 1: I use this story and I won't identify the actual crime, 871 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:03,240 Speaker 1: but question where a lady was killed and the husband 872 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:07,200 Speaker 1: was a potential suspect for it. So I went out 873 00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:09,200 Speaker 1: him hard and it was a hard interview. And it's 874 00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:13,279 Speaker 1: it's what's with the tears? That type of thing. It 875 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:15,080 Speaker 1: was in your face type interview. 876 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:16,719 Speaker 3: It must be in your head, It must be a 877 00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:18,480 Speaker 3: part of you is like what if we're wrong? What 878 00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:19,320 Speaker 3: if we get it? What if this? 879 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:24,759 Speaker 1: Most definitely And I know people I don't like doing that. 880 00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:28,279 Speaker 1: You don't. Yeah, people might think you enjoy it. No, 881 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:30,480 Speaker 1: you're getting the character and you do it. That's what 882 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,400 Speaker 1: you're being paid to do. As a homicide detective. You 883 00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:35,799 Speaker 1: don't walk in there. It's not all singing kumbai Ah. 884 00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:39,480 Speaker 1: You're trying to solve a murder. Someone's life has been taken, 885 00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,120 Speaker 1: so you're not mucking around. You're playing playing first grade. 886 00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:43,959 Speaker 1: So you go in there and you have the hard, 887 00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:47,240 Speaker 1: hard questions with this spoke. I went went hard at him, 888 00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:50,040 Speaker 1: and then for good reason, there was stuff there that 889 00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:56,520 Speaker 1: potentially potentially made a suspect he might have had some involvement, 890 00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:00,359 Speaker 1: and then after it we found out it wasn't him. 891 00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:04,160 Speaker 1: And I spoke to him about the conversation I've had 892 00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:07,719 Speaker 1: with him, and I said, look, I'm sorry, but I'm 893 00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:10,640 Speaker 1: doing my job. I hope you understand that. He said, Gary, 894 00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:13,600 Speaker 1: I felt so good when I saw the way that 895 00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:15,880 Speaker 1: you were speaking to me and that you were the 896 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:18,680 Speaker 1: right person to be doing this job because you cared 897 00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:20,560 Speaker 1: and you were going to do everything that had to 898 00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:23,640 Speaker 1: be done, not breaking rules, but just going hard. That 899 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:26,600 Speaker 1: helped me through a lot in terms of, you know, 900 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:30,000 Speaker 1: I've gone hard on people and realized, no, they're not 901 00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:32,520 Speaker 1: the person. You can't take back what you've said or 902 00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,719 Speaker 1: what you've done. But that gave me a little bit 903 00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:38,080 Speaker 1: of strength knowing that that's how people really think. And 904 00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:40,640 Speaker 1: I'm thinking, if it was my loved one killed, I'd 905 00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:44,160 Speaker 1: want the cops going hard. And we're not talking we're 906 00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:46,839 Speaker 1: not talking to break and enter that type of thing. 907 00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:49,919 Speaker 1: We're talking to murder. So yeah, the state stakes are high. 908 00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:55,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that's an interesting perspective, and it's I mean, 909 00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:57,080 Speaker 3: he must have just felt good to hear you also 910 00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:58,800 Speaker 3: say I'm sorry, but this is the way we've. 911 00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:00,239 Speaker 1: Got to do things. Yes, yeah, and you can do 912 00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:04,839 Speaker 1: things in respectful, respectful ways. And if people are intimidated 913 00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:08,400 Speaker 1: because of the line of questioning, well if they if 914 00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:11,120 Speaker 1: they've done it, I'm not worried. If I'm intimidating, I'm 915 00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:14,200 Speaker 1: not threatening, promise, But if they're being intimidated by the 916 00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:16,080 Speaker 1: fact that I'm professional and come in here and know 917 00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:19,799 Speaker 1: my ship and go at them, I wouldn't like someone 918 00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:22,759 Speaker 1: coming at me that looked professional and knew all all 919 00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:23,600 Speaker 1: stuff about me. 920 00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,439 Speaker 3: So yeah, I had a very cop funny conversation where 921 00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:28,879 Speaker 3: my house got raided and there was like a bunch 922 00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:31,319 Speaker 3: of cops going through, you know, my whole house, trying 923 00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:33,680 Speaker 3: to find drugs everywhere, and I was there with like 924 00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:37,239 Speaker 3: the sergeant who was just chatting to me, and I 925 00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:38,480 Speaker 3: was so coked up. I was like, there was a 926 00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:40,280 Speaker 3: choice between you the going back to the police station 927 00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:42,839 Speaker 3: or staying in the house, and I chose to stay there. 928 00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:43,320 Speaker 2: And so he was. 929 00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:45,560 Speaker 3: We were just having small talk, like you know, where'd 930 00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:47,040 Speaker 3: you grow up, all that kind of stuff, and every 931 00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:48,840 Speaker 3: now and then he'd try and add in like a 932 00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:50,840 Speaker 3: crime question. He'd be like, so, how long you've been 933 00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:52,520 Speaker 3: selling drugs herefore? And I'd be like, cople mate, we 934 00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:54,480 Speaker 3: just said we're just going to have some small talking 935 00:44:54,520 --> 00:45:01,440 Speaker 3: to go. Can't blame a guy for try. 936 00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:01,520 Speaker 1: I've seen that tech never really bought into that tactic 937 00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:03,440 Speaker 1: sort of yeah, it's a nice day, why do you 938 00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:03,719 Speaker 1: kill it? 939 00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:04,000 Speaker 3: Yeah? 940 00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:09,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's yeah, I know it might work. Maybe I 941 00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:11,160 Speaker 4: should have a few bites later we were like, oh, 942 00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:13,680 Speaker 4: you go for the eels? Yeah, you know, And so 943 00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:15,000 Speaker 4: where do you get your drugs from? 944 00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:17,080 Speaker 1: And I'm like, come on, mate, it's a bit of 945 00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:19,240 Speaker 1: a like a Perry Mason type courtroom. 946 00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:25,920 Speaker 3: I think one thing I have most people would acknowledged 947 00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:28,400 Speaker 3: in the workplace is good talent is hard to find, 948 00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:30,040 Speaker 3: and I imagine that's probably the same in the police 949 00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:32,840 Speaker 3: for So there are times when you've worked with colleagues 950 00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:34,640 Speaker 3: and just saw this guy's dumb as bricks. 951 00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:36,320 Speaker 1: I have worked with some. 952 00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:39,160 Speaker 2: And let me say this. 953 00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:41,960 Speaker 1: I'm sure people have said they've worked with me and 954 00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:44,239 Speaker 1: I'm as dumb as dumb. But this is my perspective. 955 00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:45,400 Speaker 1: I'm dumb. 956 00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:47,279 Speaker 3: But what do you do when you when there's a 957 00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:50,440 Speaker 3: guy that's leading a case and you just think that's 958 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:52,200 Speaker 3: never going to get solved if he's involved. 959 00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:57,120 Speaker 1: I'm a big believer in and when I was running investigations, 960 00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:00,960 Speaker 1: I went for quality, not quantity, Like don't give me 961 00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:04,120 Speaker 1: ten dud detectives, Give me two gun detectives and I 962 00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:08,480 Speaker 1: will get more, more done. A couple of things, and 963 00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:11,839 Speaker 1: there's some that some people I've worked with and I'm 964 00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:15,520 Speaker 1: just thinking, what the hell, what how did this person 965 00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:19,439 Speaker 1: get here working on a homicide investigation. And I've worked 966 00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,560 Speaker 1: with some people I look up to the younger, quicker, 967 00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:26,080 Speaker 1: smarter that come in and keep me on matteo. So 968 00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,640 Speaker 1: it's not me sort of sitting myself above everyone, but 969 00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:32,040 Speaker 1: things like that. There's a lot of paperwork in policing, 970 00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:34,560 Speaker 1: and I had a couple of people on the high 971 00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:38,440 Speaker 1: profile strikeforce. That a file an exhibit file. It's about 972 00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:40,719 Speaker 1: as simple as simple can be it because this could 973 00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:44,120 Speaker 1: be the exhibit this glass, the glass was seized at 974 00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,759 Speaker 1: such and such, it has now been fingerprinted, that can 975 00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:49,040 Speaker 1: be returned to the owner or destroyed. You know, it's 976 00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:54,600 Speaker 1: a little half page report. This guy couldn't do a 977 00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:58,040 Speaker 1: exhibit file. And I'm thinking, and I've gone to the 978 00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:00,360 Speaker 1: person that sits above me, the boss above me, go, 979 00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:03,320 Speaker 1: what do you want me to do with this person 980 00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:07,319 Speaker 1: like he's will help him, encourage him and support him. 981 00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:09,319 Speaker 1: I'd have to take him back to kindergarten. 982 00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:10,680 Speaker 2: How do you get this fast? 983 00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:14,160 Speaker 1: Yeah? How did he get this fast? And they should 984 00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:16,960 Speaker 1: set standards. I'm a big one in setting stands. There 985 00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:21,640 Speaker 1: needs to be pass and file. If someone can't articulate 986 00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:25,719 Speaker 1: or put a report on paper, they shouldn't be doing 987 00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:27,920 Speaker 1: the job. There might be other roles that they can do. 988 00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:29,799 Speaker 1: There might be other roles that they can do that 989 00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:32,800 Speaker 1: don't need that, but don't have them in that environment. 990 00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:38,799 Speaker 1: And there's some that just I say, just stupid. No, 991 00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:42,480 Speaker 1: I think we've probably all met those people in any workplace. 992 00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:44,040 Speaker 3: But how do you solve it to get like the 993 00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:47,719 Speaker 3: right people to be detectives. It's just a money thing, 994 00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:49,719 Speaker 3: is it? Like, is it a pr thing to pitch this? 995 00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:51,880 Speaker 3: Is this is the job? Or do you have to 996 00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:54,319 Speaker 3: actively go and try and recruit people who aren't even 997 00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:55,440 Speaker 3: looking to be a detective. 998 00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:58,879 Speaker 1: I think I know people. I know people I could 999 00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:01,200 Speaker 1: pull off the street, give me a week and I 1000 00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:04,880 Speaker 1: could make them as like a productive member of a 1001 00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:08,240 Speaker 1: an investigative team. I think there needs to be standard 1002 00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:12,000 Speaker 1: set there and this, And people go, are you arrogant 1003 00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:13,839 Speaker 1: prick saying this? But I'm going to say it because 1004 00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:17,360 Speaker 1: I firmly believe it. When I came in the homicide, 1005 00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:20,360 Speaker 1: it was you had to pay pay your dues. You 1006 00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:22,960 Speaker 1: worked in the local as a local detective, someone might 1007 00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:26,200 Speaker 1: have noticed your work. And then you worked in major crime, 1008 00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:28,960 Speaker 1: different sorts of major crime, organized crime, that might be 1009 00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:31,800 Speaker 1: the tile up squad. And then if you were performing 1010 00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:33,640 Speaker 1: in that, you got the tap on the shoulder and 1011 00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:35,840 Speaker 1: you got the homicide. When I got the homicide, it 1012 00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:38,680 Speaker 1: was the proudest moment of my career that this is 1013 00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:40,960 Speaker 1: what I aspired to. I looked at these people as 1014 00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:46,600 Speaker 1: God's homicide homicide detectives. By the time I left policing 1015 00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:50,680 Speaker 1: in homicide, we were having people and having people come 1016 00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:54,719 Speaker 1: into homicide that didn't even weren't even designated detectives, that 1017 00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:58,960 Speaker 1: hadn't hadn't even got the designation. So designation of detective 1018 00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:03,640 Speaker 1: two years sort of training to have the privilege, and 1019 00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:05,759 Speaker 1: I think it should be a privilege have been called 1020 00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,759 Speaker 1: the detective. So people that are playing closed constables, haven't 1021 00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:12,600 Speaker 1: they even finished their detective's course working homicide. Then you've 1022 00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:14,280 Speaker 1: got people when you apply. 1023 00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:16,560 Speaker 2: Why is that? Why are they're getting fast tracked into that? 1024 00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:20,680 Speaker 1: I think they're a shortage of a shortage of police, 1025 00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:24,920 Speaker 1: which is sort of a chronic problem. But I also 1026 00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:29,840 Speaker 1: I've dealt with dealt with some people that really actively 1027 00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:32,799 Speaker 1: sought to get them out of the cops. And what 1028 00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:35,600 Speaker 1: I saw with state elections because I was dealing with 1029 00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:37,719 Speaker 1: the police medical officer a lot, because I had a 1030 00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:41,319 Speaker 1: couple of people with some serious problems that I kept 1031 00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:43,960 Speaker 1: getting told. But it's a performance issue. I'm going they're mad, 1032 00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:47,200 Speaker 1: and they're saying, well, the parameters of insanity this wide, 1033 00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:50,239 Speaker 1: they fit within that. They've not seen pink elephants fly, 1034 00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:54,800 Speaker 1: but they're pretty close. But state election and Laura in 1035 00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:58,000 Speaker 1: order becomes an issue, so they all people that were 1036 00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:01,360 Speaker 1: rejected to join the police are now accepted to be 1037 00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:03,840 Speaker 1: the police. And it was like you could see the 1038 00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:06,880 Speaker 1: spike after about eighteen months. These are all the people 1039 00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:10,160 Speaker 1: that end up back at the police medical officer because 1040 00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:13,720 Speaker 1: they're not suitable to be police officers. So it's people 1041 00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:16,680 Speaker 1: that it's a vacation. It's people that want to do it, 1042 00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:19,360 Speaker 1: people that committed to do it. I'd had people on 1043 00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:24,600 Speaker 1: homicide that didn't like working weekends or couldn't work in 1044 00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:28,719 Speaker 1: the afternoon. It's not a nine to five job. 1045 00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:32,840 Speaker 3: So I do part time homicide solving. 1046 00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:37,080 Speaker 1: Look, look you can, and there's some women because of children, 1047 00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:40,719 Speaker 1: have worked part time and committed. But there's people that 1048 00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:45,640 Speaker 1: I just really they're not conscripts. So you come to homicide, 1049 00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:47,239 Speaker 1: you're going to see dead bodies, You're going to have 1050 00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:50,600 Speaker 1: to work hard. And I just really believe the level 1051 00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:55,000 Speaker 1: and the point. I remember having having a discussion and yeah, 1052 00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:57,480 Speaker 1: I'm not going to lose any friends on it, but 1053 00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:00,520 Speaker 1: this is the reality of it. There's a person supplying 1054 00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:03,120 Speaker 1: to be an inspectorate homicide but didn't want to come 1055 00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:06,040 Speaker 1: to homicide, and I've gone, well, why would we have 1056 00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:09,400 Speaker 1: an inspector at homicide that doesn't want to be hungry 1057 00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:11,440 Speaker 1: for the job. Not hungry. You've got to be passionate 1058 00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:13,520 Speaker 1: about it, passion with perspective, but you've got to be 1059 00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:17,000 Speaker 1: hungry about it. So yeah, you can see I've still 1060 00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:20,000 Speaker 1: got the passion for it in that murders are soul 1061 00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:23,120 Speaker 1: because and it doesn't have to be the leader of 1062 00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:26,920 Speaker 1: the investigation, but because committed people are doing something above 1063 00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:30,120 Speaker 1: and beyond and really nailing it. And you make one 1064 00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:34,480 Speaker 1: mistake with murder, and people literally literally get away of murder. 1065 00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:37,239 Speaker 1: So you need people. You need smart people, you need 1066 00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:40,399 Speaker 1: passionate people, and people that are dedicated to the job. 1067 00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:43,200 Speaker 3: Do you miss it? It's been what how long it 1068 00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:44,440 Speaker 3: was twenty nineteen when. 1069 00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:48,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so we're going into almost six years now. 1070 00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:51,800 Speaker 1: I still I miss aspects of it. I never feel 1071 00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,560 Speaker 1: as live as alive as I do when I'm on 1072 00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:58,759 Speaker 1: the trial of the solver of murder. I got job 1073 00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:02,239 Speaker 1: satisfaction from it. I enjoyed it. People often say with 1074 00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:06,319 Speaker 1: the police, I missed the people. There's certain people I miss. 1075 00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:08,440 Speaker 1: I'm not going to say I miss the people. I 1076 00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:11,480 Speaker 1: miss that the rest of your life could be a clusterfuck, 1077 00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:15,919 Speaker 1: but you were doing some good in policing. Having said that, Look, 1078 00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:18,239 Speaker 1: I'm having a ball with what I'm doing now and 1079 00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:21,120 Speaker 1: it's opened up opportunities for me that I wouldn't have got. 1080 00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:23,400 Speaker 1: And I reckon. You know when you said would I 1081 00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:25,440 Speaker 1: be a cynic? I reckon, I would have been a 1082 00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:27,200 Speaker 1: synic by now if I was still in the cops. 1083 00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:30,480 Speaker 3: I mean years have gone by. But like, what was 1084 00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:32,839 Speaker 3: it like when you first left? What was that first 1085 00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:33,480 Speaker 3: six months? 1086 00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:35,240 Speaker 2: Like that was was it hard? 1087 00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:38,200 Speaker 1: Great? It's tremendous waking up in the morning and sooning 1088 00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:41,000 Speaker 1: your face on the TV disgrace cop and the front 1089 00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:44,279 Speaker 1: page of the paper. Yeah, it was very hard. It 1090 00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:48,160 Speaker 1: was that it was my passion at the time and 1091 00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:50,600 Speaker 1: it was just ripped away. So anything that anyone that 1092 00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:53,040 Speaker 1: doesn't have to be policing, it's what you're passionate about. 1093 00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:56,080 Speaker 1: Imagine if your passion was just taken away from you 1094 00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:59,200 Speaker 1: and you're thinking that's unfair and unjust. And it took 1095 00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:02,560 Speaker 1: me a while to sort of recalibrate and go, Okay, 1096 00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:05,279 Speaker 1: well I'm not going to I'm not going to let 1097 00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:07,759 Speaker 1: them break me. Because there's certain people and they know 1098 00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:10,640 Speaker 1: who they are that went at me and it was 1099 00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:15,000 Speaker 1: just malicious. And I don't begrudge the police. I like 1100 00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:17,239 Speaker 1: the police. I like the work they're doing, and I've 1101 00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:19,080 Speaker 1: got a lot of good friends still in the police, 1102 00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:23,200 Speaker 1: and there's some great, great operators. But certain people, for 1103 00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:26,440 Speaker 1: their own petty little reasons, went at me and I 1104 00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:31,480 Speaker 1: was angry, and good people told me, where are you 1105 00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:35,040 Speaker 1: going to channel that? And I made a conscious effort 1106 00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:36,960 Speaker 1: just to go, Okay, I'm not going to be bitter. 1107 00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:37,800 Speaker 1: And I say i'd. 1108 00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:38,880 Speaker 3: Bitter every time I talk. 1109 00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:44,520 Speaker 1: Cranky, but I take a step back and think, Okay, 1110 00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:47,840 Speaker 1: what's the best form of revenge? And there is a 1111 00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:49,920 Speaker 1: bit of revenge in me. I'll show I can live 1112 00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:51,719 Speaker 1: a good life away from the cops. And I am 1113 00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:54,560 Speaker 1: living a good life. I'm carving out a career in 1114 00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:57,960 Speaker 1: the media, which is you know, I worked hard doing 1115 00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:00,680 Speaker 1: stuff here on the podcast, so I feel like I'm 1116 00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:03,480 Speaker 1: doing some good. I get invited to Parliament, I get 1117 00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:08,960 Speaker 1: invited to justice committees. I'm still doing things that I 1118 00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:10,200 Speaker 1: feel like I'm making the difference. 1119 00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:12,280 Speaker 3: But the way you talk about when you were a cop, 1120 00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:16,359 Speaker 3: that sounds almost like for me an addiction for me 1121 00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:18,840 Speaker 3: when I talk about comedy for me is such a 1122 00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:24,160 Speaker 3: positive addiction after being feeding so many negative addictions for 1123 00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:27,680 Speaker 3: so long. It definitely has brought out the best in me. 1124 00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:31,279 Speaker 3: It sounds like this thing was so good for you 1125 00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:34,440 Speaker 3: and you were saying like even when you had troubles 1126 00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:35,920 Speaker 3: in your own personal life, it was like you could 1127 00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:36,960 Speaker 3: focus so much on this. 1128 00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:39,279 Speaker 2: And did you feel like you're addicted to being a cop? 1129 00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:43,400 Speaker 1: There is an addiction to it. You're a hunter and 1130 00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:47,600 Speaker 1: people say that I speak to detectives. I respect, and 1131 00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:50,840 Speaker 1: that's what we're doing. We're hunting, and you get addicted 1132 00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:52,759 Speaker 1: to it and it's a thriller, the chase, and it's 1133 00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:57,240 Speaker 1: not diminishing the nature of the crime that you're investigating, murder, 1134 00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:01,680 Speaker 1: but you become very driven. That was it was my 1135 00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:04,799 Speaker 1: passion and you know, between you and it's the one 1136 00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:07,360 Speaker 1: thing I was very good at Like that. That was 1137 00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:10,680 Speaker 1: I found something that just sort of fitted the skill 1138 00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:14,000 Speaker 1: set that I've got. And so I do miss that 1139 00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:17,719 Speaker 1: and I miss some I was at the stage where 1140 00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:21,080 Speaker 1: I hadn't the passion, I had the energy and I 1141 00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:24,520 Speaker 1: had the experience, and you know, I was people that 1142 00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:26,840 Speaker 1: went before me. It was a lineage that was passed 1143 00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:29,160 Speaker 1: down people that taught me. I looked up to them, 1144 00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:32,520 Speaker 1: and I just feel like I had more to offer. 1145 00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:36,520 Speaker 1: But it's probably better for me where I've gone now. 1146 00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:39,000 Speaker 1: I think I'm a better person. I might have become 1147 00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:42,440 Speaker 1: too too focus if I stayed in much much longer. 1148 00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:45,480 Speaker 3: Well, you know, sometimes these shit hits the fan and 1149 00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:49,440 Speaker 3: you're forced to reinvent yourself, right and you have Yeah. 1150 00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:53,279 Speaker 1: Well, well you know the people that sit here in 1151 00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:57,319 Speaker 1: this room, I'm thinking Jesus, there's some interesting stories and 1152 00:55:57,480 --> 00:55:59,960 Speaker 1: quite often the worst time in your life turns out 1153 00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:02,040 Speaker 1: be the best time in you turn it round. 1154 00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:03,560 Speaker 3: Well, just like you said that you were kind of 1155 00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:05,000 Speaker 3: you were wrong by the police a little bit. 1156 00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:06,000 Speaker 2: I was as well. Gary. 1157 00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:08,760 Speaker 3: You know when they arrested me for selling heaps of drugs, 1158 00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:11,719 Speaker 3: you know, I felt like that was pretty rude of them. 1159 00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:15,680 Speaker 1: And look, and you were passion that weekend and you 1160 00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:19,560 Speaker 1: were Look, I can apologize on behalf of the New 1161 00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:21,520 Speaker 1: South Wales Police for what they did to you. You 1162 00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:23,040 Speaker 1: were passionate about what you did. 1163 00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:26,000 Speaker 2: You feel a drug dealer, I thought I was doing 1164 00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:26,560 Speaker 2: good stuff. 1165 00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:29,520 Speaker 3: I like to think that, Like before they were having 1166 00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:31,319 Speaker 3: the meeting about it raiding my house and were like, 1167 00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:33,319 Speaker 3: do we have to like this guy? Seems like he's 1168 00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:35,120 Speaker 3: one of the good ones. And you know that they 1169 00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:37,399 Speaker 3: were having some restless nights after when I was seeing 1170 00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:40,200 Speaker 3: in prison, like, oh no, we're. 1171 00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:43,200 Speaker 1: I'm sure they're thinking about that. Andrew. I've got to say, 1172 00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:46,360 Speaker 1: and I in this and I've heard a lot of 1173 00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:49,400 Speaker 1: arrest stories, but for some reason, you're a rest story 1174 00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:53,120 Speaker 1: made me laugh. I'm not laughing at you, I'm laughing 1175 00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:53,480 Speaker 1: with you. No. 1176 00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:55,440 Speaker 3: Well, I mean that was one of the first kind 1177 00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:57,760 Speaker 3: of jokes I wrote, was where the raptor squad tackled 1178 00:56:57,760 --> 00:56:59,239 Speaker 3: me and told me that I had a tiny cock, 1179 00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:01,279 Speaker 3: you know, and I had pants on. So that was 1180 00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:03,120 Speaker 3: the first joke I wrote was how do they know? 1181 00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:06,960 Speaker 3: They must have had me under surveillance? Right, But yeah, 1182 00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:09,920 Speaker 3: I think you know, I'm pretty philosophical about it now 1183 00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:11,920 Speaker 3: because like, the life that I have now wouldn't have 1184 00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:16,360 Speaker 3: happened if I didn't get raided and ended up reinventing 1185 00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:17,840 Speaker 3: myself in jail. 1186 00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:21,840 Speaker 1: And there's something empowering about reinventing yourself too. It freshens 1187 00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:24,080 Speaker 1: you up. It's a new challenge and yeah, okay, well 1188 00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:26,880 Speaker 1: this is this is a new world, even like just 1189 00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:30,320 Speaker 1: I've been a public servant for that long and so 1190 00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:32,800 Speaker 1: I had to set up a company and I'm looking 1191 00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:36,160 Speaker 1: at taxes and totally out of my depth and getting 1192 00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:39,560 Speaker 1: advice on that. But even little things like okay, well 1193 00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:44,280 Speaker 1: I'm doing work. Now, where's my stationary cupboard? Like you've 1194 00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:48,440 Speaker 1: got to go, You've got to get. 1195 00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:49,360 Speaker 3: Got to do all of you sound like a rugby 1196 00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:51,600 Speaker 3: league player when they're they're out of the system and 1197 00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:52,760 Speaker 3: suddenly like what do I do? 1198 00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:55,760 Speaker 1: I've got to do this allways, But that was where's 1199 00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:57,960 Speaker 1: the prince is not working? Who's going to fix it? 1200 00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:00,280 Speaker 1: Like that? That was my go to in that. Yeah, 1201 00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:03,240 Speaker 1: I left as a detective chief inspector. You've got people 1202 00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:05,200 Speaker 1: around that can help you with that. How do you 1203 00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:10,480 Speaker 1: fill out this form? So yeah, it's awakening for me, 1204 00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:13,680 Speaker 1: awakening a learning curve and what I've done and people 1205 00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:15,440 Speaker 1: that come in from a place bag me because I've 1206 00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:18,520 Speaker 1: got all the labels. I love dim labeling, like in 1207 00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:21,520 Speaker 1: the in the store's cabinet. I don't know if that's 1208 00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:25,160 Speaker 1: an old habit from from policing, but blank paper because 1209 00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:27,640 Speaker 1: I need that sign so I know it's blank paper there. Yeah. 1210 00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:30,240 Speaker 2: Wow, the organizational skills have carried on. 1211 00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:33,120 Speaker 1: Right exactly exactly, just waiting for the big breakthrough. 1212 00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:35,640 Speaker 2: Should we have a break. 1213 00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:40,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's have a break now. And yeah, I'm enjoying this. 1214 00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:42,920 Speaker 1: The pressures off. If if this goes bad, it's your fault. 1215 00:58:43,080 --> 00:58:45,320 Speaker 2: You know, you've. 1216 00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:47,120 Speaker 1: Come storming in here saying I'm going to run this show. 1217 00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:51,320 Speaker 1: You better not take my job. I will be bitter 1218 00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:51,800 Speaker 1: over there. 1219 00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:53,800 Speaker 2: He's actually, yeah, we like you more. 1220 00:58:58,040 --> 00:58:59,800 Speaker 1: All right, we'll have a break. 1221 00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:05,480 Speaker 2: It is an active at Dinam