WEBVTT - Fighting for freedom: Evaristo Salas Pt.2 0:00:01.920 --> 0:00:04.920 The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:08.080 Detective see a side of life the average persons never 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:11.120 exposed her. I spent thirty four years as a cop. 0:00:11.600 --> 0:00:14.040 For twenty five of those years I was catching killers. 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.240 That's what I did for a living. I was a 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:20.560 homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys, staid, 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:23.160 I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:26.439 The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:28.800 from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:31.479 and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:34.640 of the content and language might be confronting. That's because 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:37.680 no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:40.400 Join me now as I take you into this world. 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:48.839 Welcome back to part two of my chat with ever 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:51.839 Risto Sallas, a man who is wrongly convicted of a 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:54.320 murder and who has spent twenty six years of his 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:57.840 life in prison before being exonerated. In part one, we 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:00.520 discussed his early life and how he felt and himself 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:02.680 convicted of a murder at the age of sixteen and 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:07.160 since to thirty two years in prison. Evaristo, welcome back 0:01:07.400 --> 0:01:11.600 to our catch Killers we left you in part one, 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:14.919 you were talking about the emotion of seeing your father 0:01:15.160 --> 0:01:19.679 after you've been convicted, just bringing people back into the story. 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:24.520 The courts decided as a sixteen year old. You were going, well, 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:27.319 you're actually fifteen at the time, but to try you 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:30.279 as an adult and send you to an adult prison, 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:36.039 you get since thirty two years and nine months, how 0:01:36.080 --> 0:01:38.920 do you cope with the process? That's you said at 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:42.000 the start of the podcast. For a young fellow, you 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:46.600 didn't fully comprehend the reality of what the life in 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:49.680 front of you played out to be. Can you tell 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:52.160 us when you went in the prison and you realize 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:55.360 when you realize this is in fact your life and 0:01:55.360 --> 0:01:56.800 how you survived bad? 0:01:56.880 --> 0:01:59.760 They're right there was It was like a month after 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:02.040 I was convicted that she's sensimated thirty two years and 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:05.600 then months, and that in itself kind of kind of 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:08.320 showed me what was awaiting, you know, was awaiting me 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:11.040 in prison, at least the mentality that would be awaiting me. 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:15.240 I remember going in the morning to be sims and 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:19.640 you know, as I walked in the courtroom, you know, 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:24.000 I looked to my my father again for that familiar 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:28.240 ritual that we did, and you know, to give me strength. 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:30.640 I looked at him and he had this kind of 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:33.480 his eyes were kind of glossed over. He had like 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:38.600 a thousand yards staring in his eyes, and it's almost 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:42.160 like he didn't see me. And I remember at that 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:45.840 moment that you know, he had this kind of look 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:48.600 in his faith too. That was you know, he wasn't 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:53.840 he wasn't crying, but the look in his face, you know, 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:58.919 kind of showed the pain that was underneath. And I 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:01.800 remember he kind of caught himsel and like came out 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:03.280 of it. He went to kind of smile, kind of 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:06.240 give me that strength again. But at that moment, that 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:09.800 just seeing that that, you know, that reaction and that 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:11.920 fear in his eyes that I hadn't seen, you know, 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:15.920 that was kind of the first time, even after I 0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:21.480 was committed, that I felt fear in the entire process 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:23.760 because what that looks showed me because he had he 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:26.000 had a look in his eye like as if he 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:28.560 was about to see his child be devoured by lions. 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:33.919 It was that kind of look. And I remember thinking 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:37.800 to me that at that moment became real to me 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:43.240 that whenever I faced from this moment on for the 0:03:43.280 --> 0:03:44.760 first time in my life, I would have to face 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:47.760 it alone that my father, no matter how much he 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:50.560 loved me, no matter how much he wished to protect me, 0:03:51.400 --> 0:03:53.520 wouldn't be able to protect me from whatever was coming. 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:57.280 And that was that was one of the worst streemenies 0:03:57.320 --> 0:03:59.880 in the world because that's when I really felt alone. Truly, 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:04.960 I knew that he couldn't protect them anymore. And when 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:07.440 I went to be sentenced, you know, they had these 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:11.120 impact statements where the family comes up and they, you know, 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:15.200 give their testimony how how this murder had impacted them, 0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:18.719 you know, to something to that affect, and you know, 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:20.720 the family got up there. You know, his brother got 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:24.039 up there and and you know said what any brother 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:27.920 would say to a personally, you know, thought or some 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:30.760 you know killed their brother, and he laid into me. 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:36.640 You know, it's just some really horrible things. And it 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:42.680 was for me I had to accept that. It was 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:45.080 hard to accept that because I knew they were wrong, 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:47.920 but they didn't know they were wrong. They were led 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:53.200 to believe by this, you know, officer and the courts. 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:57.520 I mean that I was the person and it was 0:04:57.600 --> 0:04:59.760 like somebody coming up to you and just slapping your 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:03.640 own or Virginia or something, and you can't move. We 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:05.760 just have to take it. And it's a it's an 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:09.040 emotional thing, you know, And and it was horrible because 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:11.960 I'm I'm I'm a compassionate person. I can you know, 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:14.039 I'm empathetic towards others, and I can feel, you know, 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:18.120 some pain. So to feel that kind of anger and 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:22.000 that her directed at me, you know, really hurt. And 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:25.200 I felt it. And the worst is when his mother 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:28.599 got up, Because the mother got up and she didn't, 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:30.240 you know, land to me that. She just said a 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:34.600 few words, but her words, you know, would would stay 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:36.520 with me in my insirecence. And she looked at me 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:39.640 and she said that, and she said in Spanish and 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:43.599 kind of like a really low kind of, you know, 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:46.880 kind of tone, and she just said that that I 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:51.400 had no heart for myself or for anybody else, that 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:55.719 I had taken her son from her, and that I was, 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:59.679 you know, a dark person, and that's all she said. 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:02.919 But those words right there stuck with me and and 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:06.560 they cut me deep because you know, growing up, you know, 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:09.800 my mother told me, you know, you're you're a bad kid. 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:13.919 You know, the system labeled me a certain thing. So 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:15.880 all the things in my life are conveying the same 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:17.760 message that she has just been different way, you know, 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:24.560 And and I remember it's this is the only time 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:29.280 I actually spoke my trout. I was able to speak, 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:30.600 so they asked me if I would, and I went 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:33.240 so I went up and spoke and I said a 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:36.360 few words. I just said, look, I don't know why 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:38.680 this happened. I don't know why they're saying that I 0:06:38.720 --> 0:06:42.719 didn't kill anybody. I feel bad for the family, but 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:48.320 I didn't do it. And one in the days, You're 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:50.520 going to see that this is wrong, and I'm going 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:53.359 to prove it and the truth will come out. And 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:58.919 it was something to that effect, and he looks at me. 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:03.680 The judge looks at me, and he says, he said, 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:05.240 I'm gonna send you as much time as I can 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:11.240 possibly send you two it's in fact, I'm sending you 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:13.880 to a life sentence because if you when you get 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:17.360 out of prison after serving this thirty plus years, and 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:19.600 if you don't so much as pay your fine, I'm 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:23.640 gonna send you back to prison. And the way he 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:26.880 said it, though, like I said, everything had like this 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:30.600 this emotional charge behind it, a personal thing, and like 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:33.880 I said, I don't know if they do this as 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:36.800 as a way to convey the message to the victims. 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:39.200 I'm know, if this is just the natural way of 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:41.200 them when they send to people and try I don't know. 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:42.760 I don't know this kind of stuff. But it felt 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:45.520 really personal in the way he looked in the center 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:49.000 and he sends me a three hundred and nine three 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:56.360 months and I think it was a month later. Hold 0:07:56.400 --> 0:07:59.520 on that chain bus to Shelling, which is a middle 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:02.760 dark prison, and I remember going down and they called 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:05.120 me to go out the chain. They don't tell you, 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:08.400 they don't tell your family nothing. They just come and 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:11.440 get you because security thing or something. I remember going 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:14.560 downstairs and they're lining us all up. You have strip naked, 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:16.559 all this kind of stuff, you know, and they're pretty 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:19.440 chained on us. The shack ones together like you're seeing 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:22.440 me all removies everything. The guard comes up to me. 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:24.440 I remember, he looks at me and he says, where 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:28.040 he's asking everybody your deal? Cneumbers? Are they ever? You know? Ben? 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:30.080 I didn't know what that meant. You know, I don't 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:32.760 know anything about prison or anything. And he looks at 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:36.360 me and he says, he says, I know you don't 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:38.679 have a DEALC number, but you're gonna have one for 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:41.599 a really long wrong time. And then he laughs, and 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:45.319 it was a sadistic laugh. And I didn't understand what 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:48.440 that meant at that young lady came later, but that 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:51.040 was kind of a micro cosm of what I was 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:56.720 going to face in prison. The indifference, the sadisticness, the ugliness, 0:08:56.760 --> 0:09:01.079 you know, almost this kind of entirely a way, don't care, 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:05.440 nobody cares about anything. And I remember, you know, being 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:08.680 on that chainbus and looking at Yakama for the last time, 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:13.840 and you're wishing that I could tell my dad that 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:16.920 they were taking me or something, or wishing that my 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:20.280 dad could protect me for whatever was coming. It was 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:24.319 like like eight hours chain bus ride. I get to Shelton, 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:27.960 which is a receiving center and adult receiving center. It's 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:33.200 Washington Correction Center. I get there and the first thing 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:35.760 they do is they line you up. They put you 0:09:35.800 --> 0:09:38.400 in these dog kettles. They look like dog kettles, and 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:43.160 you strip naked. But naked, mind you, I'm very turn sixteen. 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:45.480 I'm not comfortable being I don't know if anybody is, 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:52.280 but got stripped me and then there's at least twenty 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:55.520 to thirty guards lined up on one end, and you 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:59.040 have to get up naked, walk all the way across them, 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:02.520 and and they hand you your clothes and then you 0:10:02.559 --> 0:10:06.240 put your it's not mean clothes like uh cross, put 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:09.679 your covers on, but I do this little thing. Who 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:13.120 my covers on? And then they start to evaluate you. 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:14.800 They bring in one by one and who are here 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:17.640 and this and that, and so they look at me. 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:20.600 Typically everybody goes goes straight from there to go shave. 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:23.800 But I can't shave. I don't have anything. Yeah, I 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:25.880 don't have you know, I don't have no hair, you 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:27.880 know nothing. They look at me and they will laughing. 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:31.280 So all we got another one over here that can't shave, 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:34.320 and they just laugh like you, all of them start 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:37.920 to laugh. I'm naked, mind you'll nanking and I don't. 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:40.000 I'm just I don't know where to go over there, 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:41.720 you know. So they put me to me to go 0:10:41.720 --> 0:10:43.120 to the cage, and then they give me my things 0:10:43.120 --> 0:10:46.480 and they put it on. Nothing fits of course, shoe 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:49.800 side of nothing. They bring me to this little window 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:51.760 and they're they're soon as I'll walk up. It's the 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:54.400 slide she has her head down, but she's gonna ask 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:57.000 me some medical questions. I guess that's the process. I 0:10:57.040 --> 0:10:58.280 get out there and she puts her headup and she 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:01.199 looks at me, and her eyes freaking she's stocked. And 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:04.560 it was, oh my god, how old are you? And 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:06.600 I said, oh, I've just started sixteen. And she's got 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:10.360 all that that's so wrong. And then she proceeded to 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:14.240 ask me all these questions and and then they send 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:16.160 me on my way along with all the other adults. 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:18.680 I go into the h R three, which is a 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:23.959 receiving center, go straight into to a cell. The cell 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:25.720 they put me in was with two eighteen year olds, 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:27.959 which was good. I knew one of them actually was 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:31.640 FROMANCAM accounting. That relieved some of my invitings. But there 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:34.640 are two man cells and they throw me in there, 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:39.400 and I meant for even too, so they gave me 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:42.120 a mattress out there, and that's that's where that's where 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:46.319 I first get out. Now and I don't know anything 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:50.199 about that chow. And when I'm in a child, I'm 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:52.360 walking in every even tail her just a freaking chock. 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:54.600 And so I'm walking into the child as soon as 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:57.600 I stepped into the child. There's like clamor was talking 0:11:57.679 --> 0:12:00.680 and everybody just just stops talking and kind of just 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:05.080 looks at me. And I kind of like, and that's 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:06.880 the worst feeling in the world for someone who's kind 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:08.800 of an inch work like me, you know, And that's like, 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:11.560 oh God, and I don't know where even where to 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:15.240 see And then I s everybody just kind of just 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:16.840 like stares a minute. They all have this look in 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:18.640 their eyes like hell, was this kid doing in here? 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:20.839 You know, It's like that'll look like I thought it 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:24.560 was a joke or something. And they kind of just 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:26.000 slowly and then they kind of figured out and they 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:27.480 kind of realized what was going on, and then they 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:29.240 went back to talking. That I remember somebody waving me 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:30.760 down like this. I didn't know the person that was 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:34.040 a Mexican dude, and I kind of tried to ignore him, 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:37.959 and he goes telling me come here. So I went 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:40.640 over there and sat down, and he goes to Mexican. 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:47.120 See yeah, he goes, where are you from? So I 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:51.240 tell him at the Sunnyside and he goes, well, he said, 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:57.840 go to yard tomorrow and bring your paperwork. And I said, 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:00.920 he said, but you have to be there, make sure 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:05.000 that you bring your paperwork. And he's what he's referring 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:06.960 to your court paperwork, your judgment of sentence. You know 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:08.760 this stuff, the should what you're in prison for it. 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:12.240 He goes be there and he sat in this kind 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:14.680 of tone where like it you know this, you better. 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:19.440 The argum took your paperwork. So I said, uh, where's 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:22.000 the yard at He said, I'll let you know what there, 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:26.800 but said all right, and then it sleeves. And so 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:29.079 I'm thinking the whole night like you know, you know 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:31.640 what you know, I don't know what that is about, 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:34.000 you know, I mean, So so I go, I take 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:38.319 my paperwork and I go out to the yard. He 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:42.520 takes my paperwork and then you just needs and doesn't 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:47.360 say anything to me. And so I'm just slept walking 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:49.000 the yard and not knowing where to go or where 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:53.120 to walk and what the hell's gonna happen. And the 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:56.440 yard ends. I go back in. We have yard the 0:13:56.440 --> 0:13:58.880 next day, and uh, he sees me out there. It 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:01.400 brings me by paperwork and says, he said, all right, 0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:04.280 you're you're good. What he was doing was it's called 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:06.719 paper checking. He was making sure that I wasn't a 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:10.000 sense of in there that I didn't tell anybody that 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:12.480 I didn't kill any women or I didn't kill any children, 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:15.520 basically making sure that I wasn't I was in there 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:17.800 for something that didn't have to do with those things, 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:19.680 because I had I been in there for any of 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:23.720 those things, I would have been targeted or killed in 0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:27.040 the next yard. And that's that's just the way it is. 0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:29.720 So he gets back by paper, he goes, all right, 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:33.520 So he starts to explain to me what is expected 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:36.280 to me as being part of the you know, being 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:39.360 the Mexican, and what they expected me in there. There's 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:42.560 no asking if I'm gonna be part of this or nothing. 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:44.520 You're already a part of this because you're a Mexican, 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:46.440 so you're gonna be able just whether you want to 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:48.680 or not, you know. So he explains the rules, and 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:51.840 the first thing says to me, and he says, he 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:54.280 says that somebody so much just steps on your shoe 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:57.960 and doesn't apologize immediately, you bring him out here to 0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:00.920 this yard and you butcher him in front of everybody, 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:04.000 and he goes. The reason you do that is to 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:07.320 make sure that everybody knows that they always stepped themselves 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:11.600 with you that this is what's going to happen to them, 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:14.200 and if you don't do that, then we'll do that 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:17.160 to you. And he goes the reason why is because 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:19.880 if they think that you're weak, they're going to think 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:22.280 that we're weak, and then they're going to test us 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:25.560 and we can't have that. And that was the beginning 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:27.400 of the adopted nation of what prison was going to 0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:30.120 be able to buy. For me. There was no decision 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:32.720 of where I want to go or what's my it's 0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:35.680 not a democracy, what you're going to do, or this 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:37.120 is what's going to happen to you if you don't. 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:41.600 And it was just that non stop indoctrination of how 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:48.400 you're supposed to carry yourself. And the respect became the line, 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:52.720 and that line was any little thing, heady bins that 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:57.040 were deemed disrespect would be meant force and brow for it. 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:02.760 And that was the beginning of what prison was going 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:04.360 to be like. And you know the horrors of all 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:06.280 the stuff, you know, the riots, all that stuff you 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:09.800 know took place and everything. And because I was in 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:13.160 for first to be a murder means that I get 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:16.200 a ticket to go to the level four prison because 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:20.920 it's a murder case. Level fours is the second highest 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:24.440 custody you can be in, meaning that everybody has committed 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:26.760 a murder or anything that they've ever done. That's when 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:32.000 they go gang member or whatever going there. And those 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:33.760 are the worst of the worst in the state of Washington, 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:35.800 and there was two of them back then in Washington 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:41.120 Penitentiary and Quantumba Correnge Center. Colombay had a nickname as 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:45.680 Gladiator School, and that was my first mother prison. That's 0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:48.800 what they sent to me too. And because I came 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:52.440 in at the juvenile the first six months day and 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:54.760 the receiving something, that housed me with the adults. All 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:57.320 of us is the adults. And then they passed the 0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:01.360 law saying that they couldn't how juveniles with adults if 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:04.400 they're in an age of eighteen regardless. So they separated 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:09.959 us and kind of had our within the prison, our 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:11.879 own area and all that stuff. And that lasted for 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:13.840 embe a year, and then I turned eighteen and then 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:17.520 I was dumb straight into the close custody and Qualum 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:23.840 Bay Correction Center, and that right there was that prison 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:26.000 was known for peckstabbings and all that kind of stuff, 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:28.720 and they just you turn eighteen and there you go. 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:32.280 And I went right into it and didn't kind of know. 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:36.719 I knew the basics, but I didn't know really what 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:39.440 a close custody was like. That's a whole other level 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:42.840 of lining. I was in the receiving center. That's pretty 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:46.440 small comparison to a level four prison. And that's when 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:50.360 everything became about race and then gang and even more 0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:53.840 so than it was in the receiving center, and the 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:58.560 brutality of that place, the wars, the battles, and the 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:00.560 fact that I was already affiliate gang when I was 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:03.680 out here, mant that I was affiliated with the gang 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:07.679 within the prisons too, and that gang was that with 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:11.720 another gang, and so everywhere I went, I was targeted 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:14.560 by that gang, regardless of I was still part of 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:17.399 it or not. I mean, just the level of brutality 0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:22.719 that you see or what society descends into when all 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:26.560 the political correctness or all the morals seemed to be gone, 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:29.560 and what they morphed into. And that's what what the 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:32.320 level of prison was like for me. It was it 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:37.800 was brutal. There was no there was no pity, there 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:41.440 was no second chances. There was just the way things 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:45.919 are and you far online or else, and to live 0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:49.040 under that kind of oppressive environment, to see the horrors 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:52.120 of what's going on that people can stab and then 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:54.880 beaten to nasu of their life, you know, and realizing 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:56.520 that that's where I had to live my life and 0:18:56.560 --> 0:18:59.760 that's where I had to be was hard in itself, 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:03.560 but in comparison to the mental struggle what was going on, 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:06.560 it was small, because a mental battle that was going 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:09.359 on in my head was was far worse. Here. I 0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:13.399 was not only a kid, but in prison for somebody 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:17.880 and for everybody in trial. The day I was convicted, 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:20.520 probably that's where it ended. That's where, you know, the 0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:22.399 tragedy ended right there for the family and all that 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:25.520 kind of stuff. But for me, every day it replayed 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:28.639 itself because it's like for it for example, if something 0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:30.880 happens bad in your life, it happens usually at one 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:33.480 moment you recover whatever you get pass it, and that 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:36.399 moment kind of goes far back. But for me, the 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:38.680 tragedy of my life was arrived with condition. That means 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:41.199 every second, every minute that I was in prison, it 0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:43.520 was like being convicted over and over and over again. 0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:49.119 I understand what you're saying there because carrying that thinking, 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:52.359 how the hell have I found myself here? I didn't 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:55.240 do the crime, and look look what I've got to 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:59.520 do the survive? Did you to survive? And I get 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:01.440 a sense of what you're talking about in the prison, 0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:03.640 but you'd have to adopt that you couldn't have been 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:06.119 You had to get out there and fight for your 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:10.400 your respect. Did you like the person that turned you into? 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:12.919 Because you would have had to become a person that 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:14.760 survives in that environment. 0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:18.719 The struggle was my flight was was maintaining my ranity 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:22.080 in an environment that pressed me not to happen, an 0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:26.040 environment and environment that demanded me not to happen. How 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:32.640 do I survive this place without being killed, without killing somebody, 0:20:33.680 --> 0:20:36.960 and with maintaining my morals as a person, as a 0:20:37.000 --> 0:20:40.679 dignified person, as a person does not google like that? 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:43.120 That cannot be like that? How do I do that? 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:45.280 Because if they see this of the weakness and the 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:48.760 would hurted me. And that was the struggle. That was 0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:51.320 part of the mental struggle, amongst all the other things, 0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:55.280 you know, is not losing myself in that manness. And 0:20:55.359 --> 0:20:57.240 the only way I did that is I had just 0:20:57.320 --> 0:20:59.840 sent into the orgnance of what it was. And then 0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:03.680 I got myself a seat and say, okay, I don't 0:21:03.680 --> 0:21:06.199 want to be that person. That's not me. How do 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:09.840 I get out of this? And in the moments of 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:15.560 those ugliness in it and seeing what prison was again, 0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:20.160 it was a decision. It was like, okay, so if 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:24.760 I'm not this person, then how do I survive in 0:21:24.800 --> 0:21:28.560 this environment that's literally forcing me to be there or 0:21:29.400 --> 0:21:32.439 allow me to surviving this some type of person. And 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:36.600 some of it was luck, some of it was prayer, 0:21:37.920 --> 0:21:39.159 you know, some of a lot of it was My 0:21:39.240 --> 0:21:43.560 dad reminded me of who I was as a person, 0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:46.240 reminded me that he was missed and I was loved 0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:49.199 and not to forget them. I remember he told me 0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:52.520 one time I had got into this fight and it 0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:54.159 was a brutal fight. There put me in with this 0:21:55.600 --> 0:22:00.720 this mentally ill person and he was like fixed, fixed 0:22:00.720 --> 0:22:05.000