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Speaker 1: I'll get a team. Welcome to another installment in the show.

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Speaker 1: It's Fatty Harps course it is, Hope, You're terrific. It's Sunday.

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Speaker 1: As Kelly Smith and I reconvene. It is a Sunday morning.

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Speaker 1: It's eight thirty seven high kel Hi Craig, how are you.

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Speaker 2: I'm very well, the sun shining talking to you. It's great.

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Speaker 1: Does life get any better than talking to me on

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Speaker 1: a Sunday? I mean, you know, does it peak?

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Speaker 2: Does it peak Sunday?

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Speaker 1: And we can tell it's cold because my computer says

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Speaker 1: seven degrees and you're sitting inside with a hoodie and

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Speaker 1: a beanie.

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Speaker 2: It's cold. It's very cold. It's a beanie Sunday. I'm

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Speaker 2: hoping that by the time I get outside the sun

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Speaker 2: will have warmed up a little bit. No, I quite

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Speaker 2: like a beanie though, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I love a beanie. Well, we know that beanie flannel

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Speaker 1: and you and I were talking about the exorbitant cost

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Speaker 1: of some flannel shirts in the some establishments. We won't

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Speaker 1: go there. I've done that, but if somebody does want

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Speaker 1: to sponsor me, we'll have a segment called the Flannel Channel,

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Speaker 1: and well at promote the shit out of you, so

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Speaker 1: feel free to send me a thousand shirts. I got

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Speaker 1: up at speaking of cold, stupid o'clock this morning for

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Speaker 1: a Sunday stupid o'clock five, and I headed out at

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Speaker 1: five point fifteen, arriving at the cafe at six fifteen,

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Speaker 1: sixty minutes later, and five and a bit kilometers later.

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Speaker 1: And it was it was cold, but there was no wind,

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Speaker 1: there was no traffic, there was no people. I just walked.

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Speaker 1: I just meandered through suburbia like an urban weirdo. And

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Speaker 1: there was I did not see one human and I

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Speaker 1: didn't see one car. Just there was nobody up and about,

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Speaker 1: so beautiful, so nice. Just man, a couple of possums,

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Speaker 1: just you know, scooching across here and there. And fox

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Speaker 1: saw a fox. There's a who knew there are foxes

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Speaker 1: in seb Definitely foxes in suburbia.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely we do. We do stupid o'clock Monday to Saturday,

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Speaker 2: and generally there's other people that do as well. So,

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Speaker 2: for instance, we go to the gym every morning. We

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Speaker 2: get there about quarter to six and it's the same people.

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Speaker 2: So but yeah, Sundays we don't. But Saturdays, yeah, there's

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Speaker 2: always a few people at it quite early, which is good,

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Speaker 2: getting up, getting the weekend.

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Speaker 1: I love it. I love because my life is quite

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Speaker 1: like I'm very fortunate. There's no hardship, but my life

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Speaker 1: is often full of people, full of people and conversations

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Speaker 1: and busyness and sometimes problem solving, sometimes complicated, sometimes beautiful,

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Speaker 1: sometimes messy. I just love being in the middle of

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Speaker 1: stillness and quiet and strolling through nature. Not that suburbia

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Speaker 1: is nature, but every second day, probably I go to

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Speaker 1: the beach on average, and just not too many people

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Speaker 1: down there in the middle of winter at five point thirty.

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Speaker 1: I'll give you the tip. There's a few diehards with

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Speaker 1: huskies and German shepherds and oodles. There's oodles of noodles,

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Speaker 1: spoodles and groodles and fucking kovoodles and doodles anything that

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Speaker 1: ends in noodle. If you live in Bayside, Melbourne, you've

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Speaker 1: probably got one, or you're getting one, or you definitely

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Speaker 1: know ten people who've got one.

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Speaker 2: It's very surprising to see a bitza in Bayside. They're

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Speaker 2: quite unheard, or aren't.

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Speaker 1: They well in the old days do they even use

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Speaker 1: That's so funny you say that term because in the

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Speaker 1: old days, Like, really you think a bitsa was two

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Speaker 1: dogs or three dogs or four you know, like a

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Speaker 1: bit of everything or a pavement special. But what do

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Speaker 1: they call them now? Designer dogs? Or you have a

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Speaker 1: kavoodle and a spoodle which becomes no, you have a

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Speaker 1: King James Cavalier, which becomes with a spoodle becomes a kavoodle,

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Speaker 1: or a Golden Retriever with a spoodle becomes a goroodle

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Speaker 1: or whatever. Yeah, but in the old days they were

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Speaker 1: just like mongrels. They were just one species or one

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Speaker 1: breed that banged another breed and you went, what the

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Speaker 1: fuck is that? Well, it's a bitter. It's some of that,

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Speaker 1: some of that, and then if her parents were a

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Speaker 1: bitter as well. Fucking it was just a fruit salad

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Speaker 1: of henine, bloody DNA, wasn't it?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely? And I think everything when we grew up it

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Speaker 2: was a Kelpie cross lab or a kelp across something.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I love a Kelpie cross lab.

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Speaker 2: What that mean?

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Speaker 1: Is there a name for that? Because I would like

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Speaker 1: one of those.

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Speaker 2: Well, it was a bitzer back in the day, exactly.

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Speaker 1: Let's bring Bitzer's back. Anyway. We love having you on here.

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Speaker 1: We get really nice feedback about you. And for those

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Speaker 1: people who don't know, kel Kell has been a listener

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Speaker 1: forever and we bump into each other at the gym

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Speaker 1: from time to time. We've become friends. She's got her

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Speaker 1: own little podcast that sounded condescending, own little like her

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Speaker 1: own podcast. Is that still operating? Do we still record?

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Speaker 2: We haven't for a while, So we did. We did

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Speaker 2: the whole three episodes and we quite enjoyed it, and

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Speaker 2: then it just kind of drifted off. So but I

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Speaker 2: did a full session, like a full series with Nan.

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Speaker 2: She wanted to record her life stories, which we did.

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Speaker 2: We called that Shenanigans.

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Speaker 1: Oh I see what you did there?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and that was really cool. So we did

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Speaker 2: that around her ninetieth birthday. And now she's ninety five.

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Speaker 2: So she keeps saying to me, we need to do

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Speaker 2: another potty And interestingly, I just got her an Amazon speaker.

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Speaker 2: So she's legally legally blind, but I thought a voice

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Speaker 2: activated that might be pretty cool, and so I've left

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Speaker 2: her a few, you know, big prompts of what to

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Speaker 2: tell the speaker. And yeah, she's been listening to her

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Speaker 2: radio station. She's been listening to you, and she's quite happy.

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Speaker 2: That this new voice activated speaker has broadened her listening landscape.

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Speaker 2: So that's great.

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Speaker 1: Well, Nan, I know you're going to listen to this

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Speaker 1: because your favorite granddaughter is doing it. So shout out

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Speaker 1: to you. We appreciate you.

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Speaker 2: We do.

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Speaker 1: I am sending you lots of Callen craiglove and hope

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Speaker 1: you have a wonderful day.

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Speaker 2: Yes we do, we do.

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Speaker 1: Definitely do. All right, hit me up but a cup,

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Speaker 1: ask me some questions. So the format with this if

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Speaker 1: you've been living under rock as Kel comes on and

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Speaker 1: tries to stump me essentially, No, that's not really it.

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Speaker 1: We try to kind of slightly diverge from the normal,

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Speaker 1: which is hard after two thousand episodes about the human experience.

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Speaker 1: It's like people have said to me, which I totally acknowledge.

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Speaker 1: You know, sometimes you end up back in the same space.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, yep, sure do. Because humans there's about ten

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Speaker 1: key areas of human behavior that kind of affect everyone,

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Speaker 1: and we somehow end up back there. But it's it's

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Speaker 1: a little bit. It's not hard, definitely not hard. It's

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Speaker 1: tricky because you know, we always have new people, so

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Speaker 1: some people are this will be the first podcast that

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Speaker 1: some people hear ever of the You project, they're like,

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Speaker 1: oh fuck. But then for someone who's heard a thousand

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Speaker 1: plus episodes, which is many of our faithful listeners, and

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Speaker 1: by the way, what the fuck is wrong with you?

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Speaker 1: They yeah, it can be a little groundhog day. So

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Speaker 1: I'm very aware of that, and I try I apologize

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Speaker 1: if that is the vibe that you get sometimes. But

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Speaker 1: it seems to me that you know, we seem to

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Speaker 1: or we need to keep coming back periodically to some

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Speaker 1: of the same issues and some of the same or

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Speaker 1: similar conversations, because you know, telling someone what to do

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Speaker 1: or how to do it, or why to do it,

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Speaker 1: or giving someone an instruction or advice or feedback or

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Speaker 1: input or even knowledge doesn't mean they're going to fucking

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Speaker 1: do anything with it.

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Speaker 2: No, And I think too, the reason why you come

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Speaker 2: back to things, and even with the episode you put

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Speaker 2: up the other day about self sabotage and why do

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Speaker 2: people keep doing it? Well, if people learnt the first

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Speaker 2: time and actually put into practice the first time they're told,

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Speaker 2: a lot of people within your space would be out

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Speaker 2: of jobs because people would just go, great, yeah, thanks,

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Speaker 2: pick that up the first time. I'm living it. I'm

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Speaker 2: doing it. It's working for me. So those even though

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Speaker 2: it might feel a bit groundhog day, Well, a lot

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Speaker 2: of people are putting their brains and their bodies through

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Speaker 2: groundhog Day, aren't they. One.

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Speaker 1: And it's it's like I always remind people that you know,

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Speaker 1: none of what none of what we share is new.

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Speaker 1: It's like all of these ideas about the mind and

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Speaker 1: the brain and human behavior and self sabotage and self

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Speaker 1: loathing and goals and success and meaning and purpose and

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Speaker 1: future and past and present, and these are not new things.

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Speaker 1: Like I didn't invent any of this, Like I'm just

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Speaker 1: the conduit the ideas and the thoughts, and you know,

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Speaker 1: open the door to Stoicism and Marcus Aurelius and Socrates

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Speaker 1: and all the old wise dudes and dudets that were

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Speaker 1: writing thousands of years ago talking about the same stuff.

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Speaker 1: You know, like one of that was gonna be in

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Speaker 1: my PhD. It just so happens. It doesn't really fit in.

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Speaker 1: But one of my favorite sayings was Socrates who said

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Speaker 1: the beginning of wisdom is to know thyself. Now that

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Speaker 1: was two and a half thousand years ago, So knowing

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Speaker 1: yourself or self understanding, self awareness, self regulation, self actualization.

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Speaker 1: Like literally, this dude was talking about that two and

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Speaker 1: a half thousand years ago before before Jesus made an appearance.

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Speaker 1: You know, so none of this is none of this

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Speaker 1: is new.

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Speaker 2: The OG influencer back in the day.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the motherfucker had a podcast. He could have been.

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Speaker 2: Big, would have been making reels.

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Speaker 1: Imagine Socrates. Imagine Socrates doing reels and little you know,

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Speaker 1: fifteen second instagrams and all these peeps telling him, Oh, no,

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Speaker 1: that's too long, that's too deep. Yeah, that's it not happening,

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Speaker 1: all right, hit me up. What are we talking about?

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Speaker 2: All right? So a few weeks ago you were talking

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Speaker 2: about how, regardless of what you've done in the day,

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Speaker 2: your baseline is ten thousand steps. And I had two

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Speaker 2: thoughts on that. One of them was because you said

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Speaker 2: that you got home and it was like ten o'clock

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Speaker 2: and you thought, yep, I've got some time. I'll go

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Speaker 2: out and get those steps. And I thought, well, why

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Speaker 2: is a dude that's you know you can do that.

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Speaker 2: You can go out at ten o'clock at night and

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Speaker 2: get the rest of your steps in pretty safe for you.

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Speaker 2: But two, like, what is it? Where is it accountability

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Speaker 2: or is it more of an obsession, so I know,

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Speaker 2: for myself and purely you know, asking for myself, just

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Speaker 2: stinking in a bit of coaching. Yeah, I wear an

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Speaker 2: Apple Watch, and I quite enjoy that. I like getting

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Speaker 2: the data. I like knowing, you know, what I'm putting

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Speaker 2: into my body, what's you know, the effort that's coming out.

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Speaker 2: But I feel that I've become a bit of a

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Speaker 2: slave to getting those achievements locked in every day, or

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Speaker 2: getting my perfect week of exercise or perfect steps in

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Speaker 2: to the point where I really love watches. They're my

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Speaker 2: favorite form of jewelry. And it's a joke within my family.

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Speaker 2: You know, how many watches have you got?

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Speaker 1: Now?

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Speaker 2: What did you just buy? And I think I'm up

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Speaker 2: to about thirty five And it's a lot. It's a

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Speaker 2: lot of time and no, no, no pun intended. And

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Speaker 2: it stems from my grandfather had a great, big Sago

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Speaker 2: divers watch and I was fascinated by how beautiful it was.

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Speaker 2: And the interesting thing, or maybe the ridiculous thing, is

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Speaker 2: that I very rarely wear them because none of them

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Speaker 2: track anything. They just tell the time and some of

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Speaker 2: them tell the date in the day. Yeah, so yeah,

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Speaker 2: what is it? And I even saw Like I had

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Speaker 2: a chat with Tiff the other day. She put something

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Speaker 2: up about when she was wearing the monitor and she was,

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Speaker 2: you know, feeling a.

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Speaker 1: Semi of those don't know, a glucose monitor yep, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and she.

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Speaker 2: Was getting these results back and going, well, you know, shit,

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Speaker 2: this this means this, and this means that it turned

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Speaker 2: out that the monitor wasn't very accurate. And we had

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Speaker 2: this conversation about well, what is it like, what's that

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Speaker 2: kind of fine line between obsession and accountability?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's really interesting. So I'm going to preface

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Speaker 1: this with it's interesting that you said, Okay, so Craig,

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Speaker 1: if you do this, if you go at ten thirty

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Speaker 1: at night, when you could just have the night off,

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Speaker 1: and you do your steps and it's cold and probably

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Speaker 1: in the overall scheme of things, is not going to

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Speaker 1: make any difference. Totally agree with you. But you went,

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Speaker 1: is it accountability or is it obsession? Well, that's based

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Speaker 1: on the premise that it could only be one of

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Speaker 1: those two true true. Yeah, So for me, it's it's

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Speaker 1: a bit of accountability, it's not obsession. But it's also

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Speaker 1: I feel because I am not innately you know, all

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Speaker 1: the things I've spoken about before, like for me to

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Speaker 1: be fit and lean and strong and functional is just

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Speaker 1: ongoing work. Now, that doesn't mean it's an ongoing horrible grind.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that at all. It just means that

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Speaker 1: every day, for the most part, if I can, I

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Speaker 1: need to do certain things to maintain a somewhere near

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Speaker 1: optimal level of function physically, mentally, emotionally, cognitively, socially, even

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Speaker 1: doing my job, even doing this on a Sunday morning,

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Speaker 1: for me to turn up and be in a pretty

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Speaker 1: good place cognitively, energetically, physically, so I can listen to

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Speaker 1: what you're saying, hopefully share some of my dis and

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Speaker 1: thoughts that are not totally stupid. That's that requires me

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Speaker 1: at sixty one to go, Okay, what's your best operating

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Speaker 1: system and are you doing that for the most part

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Speaker 1: every day. So I would say, while I have been

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Speaker 1: obsessed in the past, and I do, I can get

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Speaker 1: obsessed really easily. That's hand on heart and hand in

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Speaker 1: the air. For me. This is more about accountability, process, discipline.

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Speaker 1: It's about that. But I think speaking about you know

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Speaker 1: Socrates and knowing myself, I also think there's a chance

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Speaker 1: that I tell myself a story at times, and the

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Speaker 1: story is no, Craig, You're not obsessed, You're accountable. So

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Speaker 1: I'm well aware of that think that this is one

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Speaker 1: of the hard things about real self awareness and real

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Speaker 1: personal reflection and consciousness of the self is going, oh, am,

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Speaker 1: I really like, why do I really think this? Why

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Speaker 1: do I really do this? This sounds convenient, but for me,

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Speaker 1: it's more about that, I think. I think the other

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Speaker 1: thing too is whatever the behavior is, Okay, so it's

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Speaker 1: walking late at night, it's it's being, it's wearing trackers,

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Speaker 1: it's logging data, it's paying attention to data, it's basing

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Speaker 1: decisions and future actions off the data. I think the

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Speaker 1: interesting question, or the important question, is what is the

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Speaker 1: net effect? Is it a positive effect or a negative effect? Now,

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Speaker 1: if for the most part you being see the other

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Speaker 1: thing too, is you could be really disciplined and regimented

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Speaker 1: and a annimal and process driven and in your world

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Speaker 1: that is what is happening, and for the most part

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Speaker 1: the outcomes are good. Somebody else with a different mindset

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Speaker 1: and operating system would look at you and go, she's

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Speaker 1: completely fucking obsessed. Yeah, And in a way they are right.

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Speaker 1: Based on their version of reality. Also, it's in their

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Speaker 1: interest to say that you're obsessed, because then they don't

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Speaker 1: have to do what you do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Interesting, I mean, no one's telling them that they

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Speaker 2: have to do what I do. You know that's my

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Speaker 2: personal choice.

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Speaker 1: Oh. I've been called obsessed my whole life.

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Speaker 2: Yea.

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Speaker 1: And even to the point where people want to coerce

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Speaker 1: me to drink alcohol and I don't want to. I

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Speaker 1: don't not drink alcohol through any moral kind of stance

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Speaker 1: or religious stance. I just don't want to drink booze, yep,

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Speaker 1: just like I don't. I don't want to convince anyone

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Speaker 1: else not to drink booze or to drink booze. But

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Speaker 1: when you're out and people are like buying you a

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Speaker 1: drink and they're putting it in front of you, go

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Speaker 1: just drink one, just for me, Just just have one

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Speaker 1: beer so we can say if I go, I don't

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Speaker 1: want a beer, like and then they say to me,

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Speaker 1: why do you make this an issue? I'm like, have

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Speaker 1: you got any fucking situational awareness? Do you know what

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Speaker 1: is actually happening right now? You are trying to coerce

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Speaker 1: someone who doesn't drink beer to drink beer because you

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Speaker 1: want to achieve an outcome or you want to feel better,

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Speaker 1: then somehow I'm the problem. This is fucking coercion and manipulation.

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Speaker 2: That's yeah, again interesting, And it's the same with food

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Speaker 2: as well. Like I know, and look, I love food,

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Speaker 2: as we all do, but there's a lot of people

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Speaker 2: that they look upon it as being a gesture of love.

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Speaker 2: You know, I've cooked this for you and you know

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Speaker 2: you're coming over, and like, if you don't eat that,

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Speaker 2: then well that's kind of that's a fence. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: an interesting one way of looking at it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it is, and it's I think that's Look, I

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Speaker 1: understand that I grew up across the road from an

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Speaker 1: Italian family. This lady who names God bless her soul.

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Speaker 1: Her name's Felicia, was Felicia, and she was just this

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Speaker 1: phenomenal cook and whenever I used to go over there,

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Speaker 1: it could be any time of the day. Now, I

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Speaker 1: was a fat little kid who fucking loved food, right,

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Speaker 1: so it worked out perfectly for me. But it was

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Speaker 1: always food and Mum would literally say, you can't be rude,

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Speaker 1: you can't. I'm like, all right, well, I don't want

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Speaker 1: to be rude, so fucking bring it on.

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Speaker 2: Bring it on.

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Speaker 1: I'm just helping out, you know. But yeah, and it

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Speaker 1: was like all of those things which nobody had a

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Speaker 1: bad intention, Like there were no bad intentions, only good intentions.

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Speaker 1: But when you kind of step back from the moment

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Speaker 1: and the emotion and the idea that if you don't

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Speaker 1: eat food, irrespective of whether or not you need food

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Speaker 1: or you're hungry, if you don't eat food, here's the

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Speaker 1: message that's hurtful or that's thoughtless, you know. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: you don't want to disappoint people and all that stuff,

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Speaker 1: So eat the cake, your little fucker the end, you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, but I think we all grew up, or

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Speaker 1: not all of us, but a lot of us grew

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Speaker 1: up in a version of that. So but back to

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Speaker 1: your question, I just think that you know, your watchers

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Speaker 1: and the trackers and the stuff. I think it depends on,

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Speaker 1: like many things, it depends on the relationship that you

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Speaker 1: have with the tracker or the technology or that particular

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Speaker 1: thing as to whether or not it is a positive

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Speaker 1: or a negative in your life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's also knowing full well that there is absolute

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Speaker 2: psychology behind any of these devices. You know you hear

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Speaker 2: now that there's your plans for people to get off

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Speaker 2: their smartphones. You know, you wack it into gray scale

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Speaker 2: so it's not so attractive to your eyes into your

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Speaker 2: brain and all your receptors.

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Speaker 1: Just explain what that is. I kind of know what

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Speaker 1: that I think I know what that is, but I'm

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Speaker 1: not positive and maybe our listeners don't know.

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Speaker 2: So there's certain settings on like I mean, I have

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Speaker 2: an iPhone and I'm sure it's across all other kind

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Speaker 2: of smartphones as well, but you can change the color

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Speaker 2: settings so it goes into a grayscale version. And the

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Speaker 2: thought behind that is you're not receiving all of the

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Speaker 2: wonderful messaging within your brain of hey, look at this beautiful,

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Speaker 2: colorful thing. That's going to give me my dopamine hit.

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Speaker 2: And I'm going to keep scrolling and I'm going to

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Speaker 2: keep interacting. And you know, well, if I post a

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Speaker 2: pretty colorful picture, then people will like it, and you

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Speaker 2: know that then means that they like me. And here

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Speaker 2: we go. I'm on this cycle of you know, just

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Speaker 2: wanting to be on my phone even more so. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I've tried that, Like I spend way too much time

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Speaker 2: on my phone and so I've whacked it into grayscale

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Speaker 2: before and it's boring. It's really awful. It's really ugly

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Speaker 2: and a god, I want this, I want you know,

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Speaker 2: I want all the pretty colors on Instagram. So it works.

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Speaker 1: So does it kind of look like an old fashioned

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Speaker 1: black and white Telly?

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Speaker 2: Pretty much? Yeah? Yeah, pretty much. It's hilarious. And you know,

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Speaker 2: I think the same kind of goes with whatever wearable

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Speaker 2: as well. You know, now you've got the what are

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Speaker 2: they called haptics, So something happens and suddenly you're getting

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Speaker 2: like a jolt into your wrists and it's like, oh, yes,

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Speaker 2: there we go. We've got that telling me I'm alive

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Speaker 2: or maybe I'm not and I need to get up

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Speaker 2: and get off my ass. And it's become this thing

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Speaker 2: for me where well, if I haven't done all of

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Speaker 2: that in the day, is my day complete? You know?

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Speaker 2: Should I? And this came up for me because I

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Speaker 2: had a family member staying and we'd already been out

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Speaker 2: all day, you know, I'd been to the gym, you know,

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Speaker 2: we'd been walking, had a lovely day. And I looked

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Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, I'm like on two thousand

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Speaker 2: steps short today I'm just going to go for a

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Speaker 2: walk and two versions of that. So I love going

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Speaker 2: for a walk at the end of the day. It

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Speaker 2: clears my head, makes me feel a lot better. I

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Speaker 2: feel like, you know, I've shaken off the day I've

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Speaker 2: been at work. But I thought, shouldn't I really just be,

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Speaker 2: you know, spending time with this person who I love

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Speaker 2: spending time with. And look, this family member in question

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Speaker 2: totally gets it. And that was kind of where this

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Speaker 2: idea of accountability versus obsession and now versus you know,

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Speaker 2: is it just how I am? You know, this is

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Speaker 2: what allows me to be me and to function in

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Speaker 2: the way that I need to. Yeah, that's how it

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Speaker 2: kind of came about.

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Speaker 1: It's yeah, I think also, you know that there's probably

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Speaker 1: a little bit of anxiety for all of us wrapped

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Speaker 1: or not all of us, but you and me, right,

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Speaker 1: because we're probably in some wady's quite similar. If we

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Speaker 1: do certain things, we're kind of good. If we don't,

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Speaker 1: they might be low level or higher level of anxiety,

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Speaker 1: you know, And I understand that, and that's just being

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Speaker 1: real and honest. But the interesting thing for me, as

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Speaker 1: you were talking about that, about the apps and about

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Speaker 1: the you know, the haptic feedback and the you know,

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Speaker 1: the all the all the tools and resources and technology

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Speaker 1: that tell us how our body's going and we're going.

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Speaker 1: And I'm thinking all of the you know, for three

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand years or however long we've been around, you know,

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Speaker 1: we haven't had any of this shit, right, but we

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Speaker 1: somehow got here. And I think the ultimate wisdom, the

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Speaker 1: ultimate intelligence, is our body, yep. And the more that

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Speaker 1: we let technology tell us how we should be feeling now,

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Speaker 1: the more disconnected week we become from the actual wisdom

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Speaker 1: of our body. Like biofeedback is literally what your body

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Speaker 1: is telling you. And I I think that we have

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Speaker 1: I talk about the global We not necessarily every individual listening,

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Speaker 1: but we have systematically and perhaps unintentionally become more removed

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Speaker 1: from the wisdom, more removed from the intelligence. Because you know,

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Speaker 1: if my heart rate says or my app says I've

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Speaker 1: had a bad night's sleep, now I feel shitter than

429
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 1: I did before I looked at the app. I felt

430
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 1: actually not bad. I thought, oh, I feel pretty good,

431
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 1: and that's just how I feel like I'm in the moment.

432
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 1: And then I look and it's like, no, the watch

433
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 1: tells me, I should feel shit, And now I literally

434
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 1: feel shit because my mind created this physiological response. And

435
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 1: now I've got some information that, by the way, may

436
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 1: or may not be accurate data. Let's just put a

437
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 1: big fucking asterisk next to that, and then based on

438
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: what I think happened overnight, not what I was feeling

439
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:05,439
Speaker 1: and ago. Now, based on this new dodgy information, I

440
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 1: feel shit. Now if I didn't have that app on

441
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 1: my body or my wrist, this would not have happened. Now,

442
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,440
Speaker 1: this is what we need to be aware of. Let

443
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,439
Speaker 1: me give you a very old fashion you'll laugh at this,

444
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,640
Speaker 1: but this is a very nineteen eighties example of this.

445
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:29,439
Speaker 1: And I learned this as a young trainer. So I

446
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 1: would be training someone and let's just say, back in

447
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 1: the old days, when everyone wasn't hysterical about talking about

448
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,119
Speaker 1: body fat and all that, like, nobody was having a

449
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 1: meltdown if somebody wanted to lose weight, it was actually

450
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,160
Speaker 1: okay back then. But anyway, in the old days, when

451
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 1: people wanted to lose weight and it wasn't a criminal

452
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 1: offense to talk about weight, so I and many times

453
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 1: men and women, somebody would come in and of course

454
00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 1: they also wanted to be fitter and stronger, and you know,

455
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,880
Speaker 1: different shape and lower blood pressure and all those things,

456
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 1: of course, but part of the process was weight loss.

457
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: So and not especially these days. I'm not a I'm

458
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 1: way more about body composition than body weight. But the

459
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 1: amount of times where I would have an individual and

460
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 1: they would be let's say they've done everything right in

461
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:26,199
Speaker 1: inverted commas wink wink for a week and we weigh them.

462
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,679
Speaker 1: Let's say we may weigh them Monday morning at seven.

463
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: It's only once a week. We weigh, same time, same close,

464
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 1: same environment, same protocol, same scales, same me, same them.

465
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: And they get on and they feel pretty good. I'm like,

466
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 1: how is your weekend? They're like good? I go, did

467
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 1: you do your stuff? Yeah? I did my stuff. How

468
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: is your food? Yep, didn't fuck up? I go, well,

469
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,159
Speaker 1: you look good, your energy is good. You look to

470
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 1: me like things are happening. Well done. They get on

471
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 1: the scale and they look down between their feet and

472
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: they see a number. You know what, I'm going to say,

473
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: that isn't the number they hoped for. Now the happy

474
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 1: person is the sad person. Now the happy person is frustrated,

475
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:14,120
Speaker 1: potentially angry. The only thing that's changed is they look

476
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 1: between their toes and saw a number a minute ago. Good.

477
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: Their body's feeling good, their energy is good, their emotions

478
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 1: and their mind good. Now they get some new information

479
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 1: which could be that number for a range of reasons,

480
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 1: including water weight. You know, if I weigh eighty kilos

481
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 1: this morning, right now, if I weigh eighty kilos, I

482
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,479
Speaker 1: get on the scales, I'm eighty kilos. I get off

483
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,640
Speaker 1: the scales, I drink a liter of water. I get

484
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 1: back on. One minute later, the scales say eighty one kilos.

485
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:44,640
Speaker 2: Yep.

486
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 1: If I do it again one minute later, I might

487
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,360
Speaker 1: be really needing a wee by this stage. But if

488
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 1: I do it again, the scales say eighty two kilos.

489
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:57,679
Speaker 1: So the same guy could weigh eighty to eighty two

490
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 1: kilos within five minutes, depending on a range of variables

491
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 1: like is he really hydrated, is he dehydrated? Has he

492
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 1: been to the toilet this morning? Is he holding intracellular

493
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 1: fluid because he had a heap of salty takeaway food

494
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 1: last night? Blah blah blah. You know, there's a bunch

495
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: of things, But we give power to all of these

496
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:25,680
Speaker 1: gizmos and gadgets and to an extent, we let them

497
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 1: control our motions and feelings and mindset. Now does that

498
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 1: mean that all technology around fitness and health is bad?

499
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: Of course it isn't are all wearable as bad. But

500
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 1: as you and I saw witness or as you and

501
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 1: I witnessed, I should say, the meltdown of Tiff, which

502
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 1: she's spoken about, where she lost her shit because she

503
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 1: was wearing a blood glucose monitor that told her she

504
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: was about to be falling into a diabetic comra in

505
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: about three minutes perpetually, and then she went and did

506
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 1: an actual blood test only to find out that the

507
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 1: monitor was complete, not a bit, but wildly inaccurate. Yeah,

508
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 1: but for four days she'd been on the border of

509
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: a fucking borderline nervous breakdown because she took all of

510
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 1: this inaccurate data as truth. And not only not only

511
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: that mentally, but she physically started to feel shit.

512
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 2: So that's another question, though, isn't it, Because it's again

513
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 2: goes back to the psychology of these devices. And you know,

514
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 2: in some instances, I reckon, there's probably people sitting behind

515
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 2: there going, well, we know what's going to bring in

516
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 2: some cash with this, because we can make this, say this,

517
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 2: and people will fall for it. But then it's perspective

518
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 2: as well. And you know, actually in you know, just

519
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 2: now having this conversation, I'm like, well, in a lot

520
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 2: of instances, these wearables are great for people who absolutely

521
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 2: need them. So probably you know, high end athletes, people

522
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 2: with he health issues, so that they can stay on

523
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 2: track and they can monitor and they can be aware

524
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 2: and do all of their tweaks. And as you say,

525
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 2: you know, back in the eighties, like back in the

526
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 2: back in the days of the bits is, it sounded

527
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 2: a lot simpler in that year you could talk quite

528
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 2: freely about this. You probably only had a set of

529
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 2: scales that said this kilo or that kilo. You know,

530
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 2: none of the you know, I've got to set that.

531
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 2: It's you know, and this is just really feeding into

532
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 2: it all. It's bluetooth to my phone and it tells

533
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 2: me my water, my fat, my this, my that, my

534
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 2: you know, how much hair I've got on my head.

535
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 2: It's it's interesting how we've come to this place that

536
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 2: everything is trackable, everything is known, and it's just driving

537
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 2: a lot of as well, you know, as we say,

538
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 2: for ourselves, into this tail spin of data overload. That

539
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 2: stops the main the most intelligent tool we have, our

540
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 2: body from being able to speak as freely as it

541
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 2: used to.

542
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well I think it's always speaking, we're just

543
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 1: not listening. Where you know, it's the ultimate wisdom. It

544
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 1: doesn't lie, Like if your body is unwell, it will

545
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 1: tell you your body is dehydrated or constipated. You'll know

546
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 1: if you've got disease, you'll know if you've got inflammation.

547
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 1: You'll know. It's not guessing. Your body never fucking guesses.

548
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: Your body just produces truth. But the thing is when

549
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 1: you you know, it's like we also live in a

550
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: time when I can go on my back hurts. Now,

551
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 1: my back hurts for a range of reasons, but probably

552
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 1: largely about inflammation around certain nerves. And so then what

553
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 1: I do is I take too neurofin, which are anti inflammatories,

554
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 1: and then the pain goes away. And I'm like, ah, yeah,

555
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 1: but I didn't solve any problems. I didn't solve any

556
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 1: actual medical issues other than I'm alleviating pain temporarily. But

557
00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: the problem is still there. So that is not a

558
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: that is not an answer to anything other than short

559
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 1: term pain relief. So when we are getting for example, pain,

560
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: that's your body's way of going, Hey, motherfucker, pay attention. Okay,

561
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 1: listen up, because I'm trying to get you to do

562
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,479
Speaker 1: something different. I'm trying to get you to whatever it

563
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 1: is to to sleep differently or walk differently, or to

564
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: build some strength or to stretch or to or to

565
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 1: rehabilitate in an functional kind of intelligent way. Or I'm

566
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 1: not saying nobody should ever take in europein and I'm

567
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: not saying nobody should ever use apps. I think that

568
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 1: we don't give ourselves enough credit. I think that we

569
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 1: you know. And also it's almost this cult of thought

570
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 1: of which I talk of often around If you're not

571
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 1: using this, you're out of the loop. If you're not,

572
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:53,719
Speaker 1: if you're not part of the gang, you don't belong.

573
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 1: Like when I suggest to people that they get an

574
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 1: old fashioned diary, spiral diary with a pen and they

575
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 1: record or a journal and they record what time they

576
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 1: get out of bed and what time they go to bed,

577
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 1: and how they feel, and how many teas and coffees

578
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 1: they drink, and you know, micros and macros, and then

579
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 1: right down and then they've got this, people go, why

580
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 1: wouldn't you just punch that into a thing. I'm like,

581
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with punching it into a phone, But

582
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: I don't know. There is something and maybe just because

583
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 1: I'm an old fucker, right, but there is something different

584
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 1: with opening a page and looking at what I ate estay,

585
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: looking at what I ate last week on this day,

586
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 1: looking flicking back to the last seven days. What time

587
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 1: did I get out of bed, what time did I

588
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: go to bed, how did I feel? How much water

589
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: did I drink? Tea did I drink? And I know

590
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 1: you can track all of that. I get it, but

591
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: there's there's a It's like it's like to me, it's

592
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: like remember LPs. Remember musical? To me, it's like people

593
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: still play LPs. I'm like, why is that? I don't know.

594
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: There's something different. I don't know if it's energetic. I

595
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 1: don't know if it's but there's something different and I

596
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: really can't adequately explain it. I guess I use apps

597
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 1: as well. I track shit on my phone. I use

598
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 1: all of it. But what I love is the old

599
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 1: days when my clients would come to me and I

600
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 1: haven't seen them for three days. It's Monday morning at seven.

601
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 1: I last saw them Friday morning at seven, and then

602
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 1: they hand me their diary, and now I've got three

603
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 1: days of information, and I can read what they've done,

604
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 1: what they've eaten, what they've drunk, what time they went

605
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 1: to bed, got up, how they felt, what supplements they took,

606
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: what medication they took. Sets and reps and volume and

607
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 1: walking and all of you know. And it's just like

608
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 1: a one stop shop. That's kind of old school. So

609
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 1: but you're not getting distracted by shit that's on your

610
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 1: wrist telling you how you should feel at the moment,

611
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: Like this is how rather than having something that tells

612
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 1: me I've done too much or not enough, or I

613
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 1: need more of this or less of that, why don't I?

614
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: You know? And I think we think that technology is

615
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 1: smarter than us when it comes to our own body,

616
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 1: and I think that's a concept fraught with danger. I think,

617
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 1: of course, there are things, of course technology. I'm not

618
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: against technology. We need it. I'm super glad that it

619
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: exists when I need an operation or whatever, you know.

620
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 1: But I think also the pendulum has to swing a

621
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 1: little bit so that we kind of get back to

622
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:35,280
Speaker 1: reconnecting with ourselves on a fundamental level.

623
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 2: It's really making me I'm thinking today, I'm going to

624
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 2: when I go to the gym, I'm not going to

625
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:46,279
Speaker 2: wear my watch. I'm just going to go good good.

626
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,240
Speaker 2: And even with that, when I first got a watch

627
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,400
Speaker 2: that tracks, I remember buying it and the guy at

628
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 2: the shop was like, now you need to be really

629
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,399
Speaker 2: careful because a lot of people are breaking these when

630
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 2: they use kettlebells. And it was around the time that

631
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 2: for some reason kettlebells had a bit of a resurgence,

632
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 2: and I was like, well, can't use kettlebells anymore then,

633
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 2: can I because I'm going to smash my watch and

634
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 2: then I won't be able to know how well I've

635
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 2: done at the gym. It's yeah, it's very interesting how

636
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 2: these tiny little devices are controlling. Well, yeah, they're controlling.

637
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:28,359
Speaker 2: It's very it's very Black Mirror. I'm not sure if

638
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 2: you've seen that show. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

639
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 1: It's both terrifying and weird and entertaining that show.

640
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, But with what you were just saying, it's

641
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,720
Speaker 2: making me also think of how people are using things

642
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 2: like chat GPT. So I went to a big conference

643
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 2: where the head of Marketing and Comms from UNICEF was

644
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 2: there and He was this brilliant speaker and he said, so,

645
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 2: we've got all of these tools that are at our

646
00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 2: disposal now, but what people tend to forget is that

647
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:05,320
Speaker 2: it all comes down to the input, and you can't

648
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 2: just you know, plug in, you know, hey, chat GPT,

649
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 2: you know, tell me, you know what's you know, the

650
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 2: best best way that I should live my life. Well,

651
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 2: it can tell you based on you know, just that question.

652
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 2: But if you actually put in the right information about

653
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,879
Speaker 2: you know, I am a female, I am forty three,

654
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 2: I'm five foot two, I live in Australia, I move

655
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 2: this much, I eat this much. I don't do this,

656
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 2: I do do that, the response you're getting back will

657
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 2: be far more in line with who you are. And

658
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 2: I found that really fascinating because there's so many people

659
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 2: that just go, oh, I'm going to act in chat

660
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 2: GPT and my work's done and that's that to me,

661
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 2: So like, sure, do it, absolutely, but I feel like

662
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 2: that's very naive and putting that in the same context

663
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 2: as this, it's just making me go idiot, like this

664
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 2: is just you know, it's so naive to be relying

665
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 2: on a tracker for all of this when yeah, my

666
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 2: body is way smarter. It's just I haven't been way smarter.

667
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: I think. Yeah, Look, it's really interesting with the evolution

668
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:21,359
Speaker 1: of AI broadly speaking, not just chat GPT, but anthropic

669
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,359
Speaker 1: I think it's called and claude and you know all

670
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 1: of those right. Ultimately, again, they're tools everyone's parent, not everyone.

671
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 1: A lot of people paranot ah, it's going to make

672
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 1: people dumber. And they even did something recently where they

673
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 1: had where they said, oh, people who were using I

674
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 1: think it was chat GPT or some AI, you know,

675
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 1: it's showing cognitive decline and all of this. You've got

676
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: to be really careful with research or alleged research or

677
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 1: you know, what gets presented in the media many many,

678
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 1: many times, hundreds of times I've heard something being presented

679
00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:01,439
Speaker 1: as science and evidence and research, and then when I

680
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 1: actually go somebody who knows how to research and is

681
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 1: doing his own research, I actually go and I look

682
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 1: into it, it's like, well, one that that wasn't actually research,

683
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 1: that was some anecdotal thing or the research was done,

684
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,359
Speaker 1: but it wasn't done out of university, which doesn't need

685
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 1: to be. But it was also done with twelve people,

686
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 1: so you know, not at all representatives, so you know,

687
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 1: to meet to meet kind of the standard generally in

688
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 1: academic research. Like I've run three quite big studies in

689
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:42,359
Speaker 1: the last couple of years through my PhD, and the

690
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 1: minimum I'm allowed to use is one hundred people. That's

691
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 1: the minimum, and that's considered not very good. Right, So

692
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 1: when you see studies done with fuck all people, firstly,

693
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: there's that. Secondly, I think I reckon chat, GPT and

694
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:02,280
Speaker 1: the like fucking amazing, amazing. I just think the tools,

695
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 1: how you use the tool is up to you. Yeah,

696
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:12,879
Speaker 1: if you if you replace your brain with that, well

697
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 1: then that's a problem. But I think the other thing

698
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 1: is having which relates to your comment. It really comes

699
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 1: down to the prompts that we use, the questions that

700
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 1: we ask, the backstory that we provide as to It's

701
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 1: just another amazing tool that, by the way, gets things wrong,

702
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: that we can use and how you use it and

703
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 1: how much you depend on it or don't depend on

704
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:49,360
Speaker 1: it is optional. And I think you know, things only

705
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 1: hijack our brain, things only take over when we are unconscious.

706
00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 1: And this is this is the invitation to everyone listening

707
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:10,280
Speaker 1: to start to become more conscious of your critical thinking

708
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 1: rather than just believing what somebody that you think who

709
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 1: knows more than you about a topic. Someone says ABC,

710
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 1: and they would know because they're this person. So therefore

711
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:26,799
Speaker 1: my truth is ABC, not because I fully understand it

712
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 1: or have done any research or I've figured it out myself,

713
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:34,840
Speaker 1: just because they seem credible they said it. Therefore that's

714
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 1: now my truth. Well, that's certainly a way to become

715
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 1: eventually a fucking potato, you know, a cognitive potato. But

716
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 1: if you can, you know, That's why I always say,

717
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 1: even on these shows, this is just you and me

718
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 1: thinking out loud, right, Yep. If Kelly says something or

719
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 1: I say something that you think is bullshit, it may

720
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 1: well be bullshit, or it might be bullshit for you.

721
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 1: Or if we say something that you think could be

722
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: valuable or is interesting or might be valid, then and

723
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 1: you want to learn more or understand more, or perhaps

724
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 1: operationalize or put into practice that thing, then it would

725
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 1: not be the worst thing for you to go and

726
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 1: open a few doors and learn a bit more, ask

727
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 1: a few more questions, do some actual research, or at

728
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 1: least rather than pay attention to the dude on YouTube

729
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 1: in the singlet with the well lit fucking room. Maybe

730
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 1: go into an academic search engine like Google, scholar or

731
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 1: better and read a research paper. If you can't read

732
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 1: the research paper, then some of them are tricky. Read

733
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 1: the abstract, read the discussion, read the conclusion, you know,

734
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 1: so you can go, oh, this is actually legit. Not

735
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 1: all research that's published as legit, but you know, and

736
00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:01,799
Speaker 1: so I think it's really it's so easy to I'll

737
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 1: shut up after this cel. It's so easy to live

738
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 1: unconsciously for the most part, where you know where in life,

739
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:14,840
Speaker 1: and life has its own momentum, life has its own energy.

740
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,319
Speaker 1: Like I get up and my life's already kind of

741
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 1: happening around me, you know, with my parents and with

742
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 1: my business, and with my my speaking commitments and my

743
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 1: fucking rituals and rules and habits. It's like all this

744
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 1: stuff is in place every day that I get up,

745
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,759
Speaker 1: and it's like the river's always flowing. I've just got

746
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 1: to step into the river or dive into the river,

747
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 1: and then I'm moving with the river. Now that's good

748
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 1: and bad. It's good because hopefully the river's moving in

749
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:46,879
Speaker 1: the direction I want. But sometimes being in the river

750
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 1: means I'm unconsciously being taken in a direction that I

751
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 1: didn't choose or want. So sometimes the river being the

752
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 1: metaphor for our life or the analogy for our life,

753
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 1: We've got to swim to the fucking bank, get up

754
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 1: on the bank and take a look at the river

755
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 1: and going is this the direction that I want to swim?

756
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:10,240
Speaker 1: Because it is very easy to have habits and rules

757
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:13,759
Speaker 1: and rituals that you didn't intend or you didn't critically

758
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: design that are actually a form of self sabotage. And

759
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 1: it is very difficult to be objective about you because

760
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 1: you're you. It's very objective, very hard to be objective

761
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:30,840
Speaker 1: about your situation because you're in it. So the challenge,

762
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:34,560
Speaker 1: the difficult challenge, is to try to find a perspective,

763
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 1: a level of objectivity and clarity that is not always

764
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:42,360
Speaker 1: the one that you're in the middle of.

765
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, and quite often it's the hardest part as well,

766
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 2: isn't it So? Just I think that comes back to

767
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 2: what we were saying earlier around the idea of these

768
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:58,760
Speaker 2: themes have been repeated many times by many different people,

769
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 2: but it's because people need for them to be repeated,

770
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 2: to be reminded that you know, you can actually pretend

771
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 2: you know, to use your metaphor. You can go against

772
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 2: the flow, you can go against the grain, and you

773
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:16,320
Speaker 2: can actually change it. Yeah, it's as I said, you know,

774
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 2: if people weren't dipping into that, then a lot of

775
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 2: people would be out of jobs because while would they

776
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 2: need it, while wuld they need that reminder that hey,

777
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:27,240
Speaker 2: yeah you can actually you can change. You can change

778
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 2: the course of what it is that you're doing. It

779
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 2: doesn't need to go in the same direction that it

780
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 2: has been.

781
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 1: What let me ask you a question. What's one thing

782
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:40,360
Speaker 1: that you did kind of on autopilot, you know, just

783
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 1: that was just the flow of the river. You were

784
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:46,359
Speaker 1: just in it, and you did it consistently and but

785
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:52,359
Speaker 1: probably unconsciously. That wasn't serving you something that was a

786
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:58,720
Speaker 1: form of either self sabotage or stupidity. Welcome to my world.

787
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 1: That you recognized and changed something that you were doing

788
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 1: that wasn't working in inverted commas.

789
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:12,799
Speaker 2: Well, look, for a long time I smoked, and that

790
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 2: was incredibly stupid. And it was you know, around the

791
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 2: time before you know, packaging change. So it was fine,

792
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:25,319
Speaker 2: it was cool. Everyone was doing it, and I knew that.

793
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 2: Oh god, I hate this, I hate it. You know,

794
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 2: it's disgusting and eventually quit. And the money that I

795
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 2: saved from not smoking, we paid for a trip overseas.

796
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, and now that you paid for a trip to

797
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 1: the moon, that shit is so yeah. Is it like

798
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 1: eighty dollars for a packet of cigarettes or something?

799
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 2: Now, something ridiculous like that. And I was talking with

800
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:55,879
Speaker 2: someone yesterday and they mentioned somebody who smoked, and I said,

801
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:58,280
Speaker 2: are you talking cigarettes or vapes? And they said cigarettes?

802
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 2: And I'm like a rich Like seriously, that's it's you know,

803
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:06,239
Speaker 2: they're rich and they're crazy. Yeah, that was. It was

804
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 2: definitely not serving me and drinking. Yeah, absolutely drinking. It

805
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 2: was for a very long time. Oh it's Friday, it's

806
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 2: the end of the week. I've earned this, It's great.

807
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 2: This is what I'm doing. Yeah, very stupid. And that

808
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 2: was going with the flow of this is what I've

809
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 2: always done. It's and probably on a deeper level, caring

810
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:37,759
Speaker 2: about what people think. You know, if I do this

811
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 2: and I don't get the right response or the response

812
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:43,239
Speaker 2: that I think I want from this particular person, well

813
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 2: then well maybe I shouldn't do it, or maybe it's

814
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:49,839
Speaker 2: not the right thing. And it was a realization of

815
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:54,800
Speaker 2: who I should surround myself with. And it's that concept

816
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 2: of surrounding yourself by people who drag you up and

817
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 2: you know, not being the smartest person in room. And

818
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 2: it's probably even only recently that you know, there's these

819
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 2: people in my life who I look at and go actually,

820
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 2: the feedback that I want is from them because I

821
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:14,319
Speaker 2: really value it and I can see what they're doing

822
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:17,319
Speaker 2: with their lives and that's where I want to be.

823
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 2: And it's yeah, that would be the biggest go with

824
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 2: the flow, just being with people who, for whatever reason

825
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:31,239
Speaker 2: I'd always valued their opinion or thought that mine was

826
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 2: in line with theirs. And you know, even doing something

827
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:39,319
Speaker 2: like podcasts, like it's something I've always really wanted to do,

828
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:42,839
Speaker 2: being shit scared to do because who the hell wants

829
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:46,279
Speaker 2: to listen to me? But I really love it and

830
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 2: it's like, well, just me enjoying it, well that should

831
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 2: be enough. But instead it was this go with the

832
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 2: flow of well if other people don't enjoy it, what's

833
00:48:58,239 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 2: the point.

834
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 1: Here's the thing right about you? And I'm not saying

835
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 1: this to piss in your pocket, because you know I'm

836
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:08,920
Speaker 1: pretty honest, right, Yeah, you're good at it now for

837
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:13,399
Speaker 1: somebody who are you the best? No? But are you good? Yeah?

838
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 1: You will you get better? Yeah? Like I love, and

839
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 1: I can't do this for everyone, so don't put up

840
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:23,960
Speaker 1: your hand everyone, but you know so A while ago

841
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 1: I did a Q and a call out on the

842
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 1: New Project Facebook page, and a whole bunch of people

843
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 1: wrote in questions, and you went, hey, can I ask

844
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:39,759
Speaker 1: you those questions? I went, of course, right now, One

845
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 1: you did a good job, and two I love and

846
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:47,760
Speaker 1: I mean this with complete respect because I put myself

847
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:53,239
Speaker 1: in the same group. I love celebrating normal people. Right,

848
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 1: you're normal. I'm normal. I know I probably seem have normal.

849
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 1: I'll probably have normal, but ad normally in a bad way,

850
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 1: not a good right. But the thing is that when

851
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:08,760
Speaker 1: you go, oh, I love that you are honest about

852
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:11,800
Speaker 1: the cigarette stuff good. But even the people pleasing and

853
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 1: the wanting to worrying about what people think, right, well,

854
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 1: that's all of us. That's all of us. And so

855
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 1: let's not pretend we don't care about what people think,

856
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 1: because we still do. I still do. But there's a

857
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:29,320
Speaker 1: difference between caring about what people think, which is somebody

858
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:31,239
Speaker 1: should do a PhD on that and maybe call it

859
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:34,239
Speaker 1: metaperception and meta acrius. Somebody should definitely look into that.

860
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:37,800
Speaker 1: They should, But there's a difference between that and being

861
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 1: obsessed with what they think of you or paranoid or

862
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:46,759
Speaker 1: insecure or do they like me? Right, there's a real

863
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 1: spectrum there, and I think, you know, pursuant to the

864
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:57,280
Speaker 1: overall theme of this show. So, how do you become

865
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 1: a master at podcasting? Well, you start by being somewhere

866
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:05,879
Speaker 1: between shit and average, and you do you just keep

867
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:10,480
Speaker 1: doing podcasts, you know, and there are not many people

868
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:15,760
Speaker 1: that and people listening wouldn't even understand what a great

869
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 1: job you're doing now because in your life you've probably

870
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:24,360
Speaker 1: done ten podcasts or something, right, yep. But for you

871
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:26,240
Speaker 1: to be able to sit there and be fully present

872
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:29,480
Speaker 1: with somebody who's done thousands of hours on a microphone,

873
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 1: on radio, on television, on podcasting, on mine, on other

874
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 1: people's thousands and thousands, right, and for you to be

875
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:42,399
Speaker 1: as good as you are after ten hours is fucking crazy.

876
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 1: And while yeah, that people wouldn't get it, the average person.

877
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 1: I mean with this with total respect, if you go

878
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:54,440
Speaker 1: get a hundred people out of suburbia and let them

879
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:56,279
Speaker 1: listen to a couple of episodes, so they get the

880
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 1: vibe and say, all right, now you're going to do

881
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 1: what Kelly's doing. Ready that go? You would there would

882
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 1: probably not be one in the hundred that could do

883
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:10,239
Speaker 1: what you're currently doing. You know, there might be, but

884
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 1: definitely people that would have the potential to get up

885
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:15,879
Speaker 1: to it. Right, Everyone's got potential. But you know, it's

886
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:20,840
Speaker 1: great and the fact that you who is innately shy

887
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:24,720
Speaker 1: and introverted, and I know that about you, and kind

888
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 1: of it's funny because part of you is like, give

889
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 1: me attention, don't give me any attention. Yep, ye, look

890
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:33,279
Speaker 1: at me, don't look at me yep. Yeah, I want

891
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:35,640
Speaker 1: to be on But then do I really? I'm so

892
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 1: excited also fucking terrified that to you. But underneath those

893
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:44,520
Speaker 1: feelings and emotions, you kind of have clarity about what

894
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 1: you would like to develop into.

895
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And even with talking about you know, caring about

896
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:54,440
Speaker 2: what people think. Absolutely, I do still care about what

897
00:52:54,480 --> 00:53:00,120
Speaker 2: people think, but it's reframing it so it's caring about

898
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:03,399
Speaker 2: what the right people think. So the people who are

899
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:05,840
Speaker 2: important to me or the people who I look up to,

900
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:10,239
Speaker 2: and the spectrum that you mentioned, it's very interesting So

901
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:12,800
Speaker 2: I have a niece who is thirteen, and she was

902
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:15,400
Speaker 2: going through some things at school and she said, oh,

903
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:19,080
Speaker 2: I had a fight with this girl. Said right, what

904
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:21,400
Speaker 2: did you do? And she said, well, this girl who

905
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 2: I don't even know, told me that she thinks something

906
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:27,799
Speaker 2: bad about me. And I said, I don't care what

907
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:29,920
Speaker 2: you think about me, because you're not my friend. And

908
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 2: if you're not my friend, then you don't get to

909
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:36,120
Speaker 2: think anything about me. And I just went, you're thirteen,

910
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:40,400
Speaker 2: You're thirteen. It was just incredible that she had this

911
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:45,799
Speaker 2: insight into if I don't value you, then I'm not

912
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:47,880
Speaker 2: going to waste time worrying about your opinion.

913
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:51,200
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, she could teach all of us grown up something.

914
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 2: Absolutely.

915
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:57,479
Speaker 1: She could cal it's been fun, you're great. We will

916
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:01,720
Speaker 1: reconvene at a later date. Do you want to steer

917
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:05,400
Speaker 1: anyone towards your socials or anything like that or not particularly?

918
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:09,920
Speaker 2: No, not really. I think Well, there's actually is an

919
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:12,000
Speaker 2: episode coming out this week. I think I did with

920
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:16,880
Speaker 2: Tiff have a listen, but she includes videos with hers,

921
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 2: and my goodness, that scared the shit out of me.

922
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:21,040
Speaker 2: She's like, here, have a look at yourself, and I went,

923
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:21,799
Speaker 2: holy shit.

924
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:25,280
Speaker 1: She is the ultimate real creator.

925
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 2: She is, she is, she's great. So I think it's just,

926
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:31,879
Speaker 2: you know, it's nice to be able to come back

927
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:33,880
Speaker 2: and do this because, as I said, I really love it.

928
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:35,600
Speaker 2: So thanks for having me again.

929
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:38,239
Speaker 1: Well, you're good at it, and you come at a

930
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 1: very reasonable price, so we'll keep that. We'll keep that

931
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 1: price the same. Excellent, all right, KELP, love your guts,

932
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:45,360
Speaker 1: Thank you.

933
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:45,760
Speaker 2: Thanks