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Speaker 1: From the Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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Speaker 1: It's Wednesday, December tenth, twenty twenty five. Coal fired power

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Speaker 1: will remain in Australia's electricity system until twenty forty nine,

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Speaker 1: twelve years longer than previously expected. That's after Queensland delayed

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Speaker 1: the closure of its government owned generator. That story is

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Speaker 1: live now at the Australian dot com do AU. Today,

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Speaker 1: the federal government's much vaunted social media reform kicks in,

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Speaker 1: banning children under sixteen from platforms like Instagram and TikTok.

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Speaker 1: But Communications Minister Anika Wells has another huge drama to

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Speaker 1: deal with revelations she's billed taxpayers for family trips, including

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Speaker 1: to ski resorts and sporting grand finals. The government says

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Speaker 1: it's all within the rules. So what's fair when it

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Speaker 1: comes to politician's expenses? And is this superstar minister under threat?

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Speaker 2: It's really not a good look. Annika Wells, the Communications

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Speaker 2: Minister under fire, spending about nine thousand dollars so her

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Speaker 2: and her husband and her family could attend three separate

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Speaker 2: AFL Grand finals dating back to twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 1: Thirty six hundred dollars for a trip to Adelaide, one thousand,

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Speaker 1: four hundred for a family trip to Red Bow. The

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Speaker 1: Sports Minister charged Australian's nearly one thousand bucks to have

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Speaker 1: a Commonwealth car waited seven hours for her while she

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Speaker 1: attended a tennis final in twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 2: Four grand for cricket events, three thousand dollars for a

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Speaker 2: ski trip, one hundred thousand for those flights to New

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Speaker 2: York City, about twenty seven grand for Paris, forty two

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Speaker 2: k for France and Switzerland. The list goes on and on.

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Speaker 1: The Cabinet Minister Anika Wells has referred herself for an

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Speaker 1: independent audit over taxpayer funded expenses.

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Speaker 3: This is been an absolute disaster.

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Speaker 1: Jeff Chambers is The Australian's Political editor covering a story

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Speaker 1: that often catches fire at this time of year. A

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Speaker 1: senior politician accused of making the most of their entitlement

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Speaker 1: to taxpayer funded expenses. In this case, it's Anika Wells,

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Speaker 1: Communication and Sports Minister. She's about to washer in the

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Speaker 1: government's signature reform and she's now facing huge questions about

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Speaker 1: her judgment.

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Speaker 4: So the social media ban the long touted band starts

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Speaker 4: on December tenth, and this should have been a big moment,

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Speaker 4: and there should have been clear air for her to

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Speaker 4: go out and sell this and explain it to parents.

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Speaker 4: The labor people are thinking that they can ride this out.

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Speaker 4: Anthony Alberanezi will be very steadfast in his support for her.

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Speaker 4: He's always been a champion of Anika Wells and she's

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Speaker 4: been very loyal to the Prime Minister. But I think

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Speaker 4: it takes me back to when I was in New

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Speaker 4: York at the United Nations General Assembly, and I couldn't

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Speaker 4: believe that when I saw Anika Wells turning up in

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Speaker 4: New York, I wrote a hobnobbing around United Nations headquarters.

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Speaker 4: And at that time there was this Optis triple zero

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Speaker 4: outage and people had died, and just today we've heard

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Speaker 4: that other people probably died as well. And it was

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Speaker 4: just the most ill judged sort of decision. She was

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Speaker 4: supposed to travel to New York with the Prime Minister,

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Speaker 4: stayed back, but then at the last moment got approval

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Speaker 4: from the Prime Minister's office to book these exorbitant fairs,

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Speaker 4: and everyone just thought what she doing here?

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Speaker 1: That trip to New York cost taxpayers one hundred thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: Right now, Anika Wells is feeling immense heat. There's an

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Speaker 1: onslaughter stories about her use of expenses. But first let's

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Speaker 1: set the scene. Wells has some special circumstances. She's a

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Speaker 1: minister for two portfolios that require lots of travel. Her

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Speaker 1: electorate of Lily is in Brisbane. She has three children

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Speaker 1: under the age of eight, so she's been taking advantage

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Speaker 1: of a rule that allows politicians to build taxpayers for

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Speaker 1: a small number of return flights per year for their

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Speaker 1: families to meet them in places other than Canbra at

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Speaker 1: times that align with their official work, as well as

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Speaker 1: trips to Canberra.

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Speaker 4: Quite often we see these parliamentary expenses scandals pop up

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Speaker 4: and it's sort of like a tidal wave. So once

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Speaker 4: you start looking into a person's expenses, and in this

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Speaker 4: case the subject is Anika Wells, you start to sort

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Speaker 4: of correlate. Okay, so she's made a travel claim here

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Speaker 4: flights for this family reunion expense claims brought her husband down,

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Speaker 4: brought her kids down. She's obviously the Sports Minister, so

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Speaker 4: she is required to attend major sporting events. But it's

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Speaker 4: that sort of repeated behaviors that has caught people's attention.

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Speaker 4: Does a husband have to be there in that primo

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Speaker 4: box seat at every single event, whether it's the f

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Speaker 4: one or whether it's an AFL Grand Final.

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Speaker 3: So it comes down to a judgment call.

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Speaker 4: And quite often you'll see politicians claiming that their travel

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Speaker 4: claims for within the guidelines or the rules, and quite

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Speaker 4: often they do because those rules are incredibly broad, very generous,

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Speaker 4: and it's a typical way that politicians set it up.

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Speaker 4: They never really change those rules unless they're forced into it.

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Speaker 4: So you know, there is outrage in terms of Anaka

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Speaker 4: Wells's claims. You know there's that dinner in Paris. I

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Speaker 4: think that they say that the Australian ambassador in Paris

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Speaker 4: took them out and then charged that money back. So

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Speaker 4: there's always an explanation and quite often once there is

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Speaker 4: an audit or a probe into these things, it will

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Speaker 4: be shown that they haven't breached the rules.

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Speaker 1: Politicians entitlements has been a story for as long as

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Speaker 1: I think both of us have been in journalism, and

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Speaker 1: probably well before that.

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Speaker 3: Once upon a.

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Speaker 1: Time, the general understanding was that parliamentarians didn't earn a

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Speaker 1: massive wage, but they did have a very generous superannuation scheme.

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Speaker 1: There was outrage about that the superannuation was rained in

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Speaker 1: and now there is a network of pretty generous entitlements

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Speaker 1: that politicians can legitimately claim. One of them is family reunion.

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Speaker 1: What is the point of the family reunion entitlement?

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Speaker 4: It's always been a pretty opaque one because what consists

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Speaker 4: of family. Quite often you'll see politicians claiming extended family

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Speaker 4: and getting a tick off on that.

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Speaker 3: In Anika Wells's case, she has got.

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Speaker 4: Three kids under the age of eight, spends more than

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Speaker 4: one hundred and twenty nights away from home. So you know,

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Speaker 4: particularly for female politicians, it can be really tough, and

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Speaker 4: particularly if you're a mum. So that's why it's there.

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Speaker 4: Have the rules been broken over the years yet a lot.

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Speaker 4: But you know we constantly see audits done even after

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Speaker 4: they harden up the rules, and every single time it

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Speaker 4: says that it falls within the legislative framework. So a

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Speaker 4: lot of people talk about the pub test and you know,

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Speaker 4: is this okay? So you talked about the loss of

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Speaker 4: the defined benefits scheme for parliamentarians and John Howard changed

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Speaker 4: that under pressure, and the political parties have argued that

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Speaker 4: this has made it harder to get more talented people

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Speaker 4: into the building, and this is probably why they're fairly

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Speaker 4: protective of these very generous entitlements. But there needs to

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Speaker 4: be some common sense applied to claims. You know, if

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Speaker 4: you're going to an expensive dinner, you've got to think,

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Speaker 4: you know, the taxpayers are paying for this, who's picking

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Speaker 4: up the bill? Maybe the tax payer can pick up

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Speaker 4: the appropriate amount. So I think that's where it probably

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Speaker 4: goes to, is if the pressure builds and this will

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Speaker 4: not just be exclusively focused on anequa Wells, because all politicians,

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Speaker 4: across all parties, everyone claims the same type of expenses.

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Speaker 4: Is looking at do you maybe restrict the guidelines around

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Speaker 4: family reunion travel? Is it just maybe for Canberra because

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Speaker 4: you spend so much time there for sitting weeks? Do

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Speaker 4: you look more broadly at the rules and how they're applied.

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Speaker 4: So it'll be interesting to see where this goes.

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Speaker 1: There's two very separate realities here, isn't there within politics?

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Speaker 1: I think there's an idea that politicians are not paid

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Speaker 1: anywhere near what CEOs are paid or senior executives at

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Speaker 1: some big corporations. What's your sense talking to politicians all

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Speaker 1: the time of how much they actually get when Australia

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Speaker 1: is going through a cost of living crisis, how annoyed

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Speaker 1: people get about the politicians sense that they're not really

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Speaker 1: earning that much.

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Speaker 4: I don't think it cuts through. There are a lot

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Speaker 4: of perks that you get us apart federal parliamentary in

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Speaker 4: and you know com car. You know, we've seen cases

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Speaker 4: where ministers or others will book a com car and

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Speaker 4: the com car has to sit there for hours on

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Speaker 4: end and that costs a lot of money when you

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Speaker 4: see that flushing through the system. So I think that

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Speaker 4: the politicians are certainly very aware of the cost of

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Speaker 4: living crisis. Jim Chalmers is about to hand down a

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Speaker 4: midyear budget update next week that is going to really

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Speaker 4: focus on trying to drive some savings in the budget,

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Speaker 4: and that means that things like energy rebates are falling off.

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Speaker 4: So you know, they talk a lot about understanding what

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Speaker 4: it's like out there on the cold face for families

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Speaker 4: and households. You know, these types of matters really, I

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Speaker 4: guess bring back into focus whether they truly do understand

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Speaker 4: the types of pressures that Australians are under. Inflations going

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Speaker 4: back up, people are their bills are the highest they've

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Speaker 4: ever been on record, and everyone's really struggling. So I

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Speaker 4: think that for the government, they certainly are aware of that,

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Speaker 4: and the Coalition obviously they're leading some political attacks, but

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Speaker 4: also it gets to a point of politicians talking about

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Speaker 4: politicians rather than really she's for real people.

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Speaker 1: What's been the greatest or most outrageous use of a

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Speaker 1: taxpayer perk that you've seen in your time covering politics.

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Speaker 3: Oh, that's a good question, Claire.

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Speaker 1: Bromwyan Bishops brings to mind for me taking a helicopter

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Speaker 1: two events.

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Speaker 5: Speaker Bromwan Bishop is under fire this morning over her

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Speaker 5: recent spending. Labor is demanding answers after she build taxpayers

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Speaker 5: five thousand dollars for a helicopter flight to a Liberal

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Speaker 5: party event.

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Speaker 3: Broman Bishop's right up there.

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Speaker 4: Look back in the sort of eighties nineties there was

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Speaker 4: a lot of scandals and John Howard had to sack

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Speaker 4: a bunch of ministers. But in more recent times, the

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Speaker 4: Broman Bishop choppergate was definitely a standout. Susan Lee's example.

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Speaker 4: She ultimately he was forced to resign from Malcolm Turnbull's cabinet.

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Speaker 6: The Health Minister Susan Lee and landed her in yet

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Speaker 6: another travel controversy. The Health Minister purchased the two bedroom

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Speaker 6: at two bathroom dwelling with ocean views for seven hundred

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Speaker 6: and ninety five thousand dollars while on a taxpayer funded

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Speaker 6: trip to Queensland.

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Speaker 7: Her office has released a statement saying she has examined

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Speaker 7: her travel documents and while she was in Brisbane and

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Speaker 7: the Gold Coast for work purposes, she understands attending the

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Speaker 7: auction and purchasing the apartment changes the context.

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Speaker 1: Of the trip.

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Speaker 4: There was several issues, including a Gold Coast apartment that

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Speaker 4: led to her having to fall out a cabinet and

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Speaker 4: Malcolm Turnbull subsequently then changed the rules and he set

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Speaker 4: up an independent Parliamentary expenses authority. So it is quite

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Speaker 4: ironic now that you're seeing Susan Lee's coalition calling out

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Speaker 4: the other mobs for breaking the rules.

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Speaker 1: Coming up is Anika Wells's job under threat. Anika Wells

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Speaker 1: is on the cusp of what should be her greatest

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Speaker 1: triumph as Communications Minister, shepherding in the under sixteen social

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Speaker 1: media ban, which the Prime Minister is also very proud of.

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Speaker 1: Given that that's happening at this moment, can the Prime

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Speaker 1: Minister discipline her or get rid of her if he

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Speaker 1: was so minded to.

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Speaker 4: She's a young cabinet minister, very ambitious person, but this

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Speaker 4: is really going to make her think about her decisions better.

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Speaker 4: And she wanted to keep that sports portfolio after she

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Speaker 4: got promoted into cabinet and then post the election, and

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Speaker 4: with the sports portfolio comes in requirements to attend some

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Speaker 4: of these big event So I just wonder there's probably

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Speaker 4: a few scenarios we'll see here. One is, you know,

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Speaker 4: if there is a shuffle, maybe she jettison's that sports portfolio.

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Speaker 4: And two, if the pressure does build that maybe she

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Speaker 4: might have to partly pay things back, which is the

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Speaker 4: sort of well trodden path that many politicians do. They

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Speaker 4: partly pay it back symbolically and then they accept no

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Speaker 4: responsibility because they haven't broken the rules. So I think

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Speaker 4: we're going to see a lot of tit for tat

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Speaker 4: from either side now, trudging up all types of expense

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Speaker 4: claims and trying to link them with things on social media.

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Speaker 4: Maybe they are at an event for their child or

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Speaker 4: at a birthday party, and that's going to be a

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Speaker 4: long summer of that.

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Speaker 3: I think.

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Speaker 1: Jeff Chambers is The Australian's political editor. You can read

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Speaker 1: his reporting right now at the Australian dot com.

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Speaker 6: A