1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: We'd like to acknowledge that traditional custodians of the land 2 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: on which this podcast was produced the Gadigel people of 3 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: the orination. We pay our respects to Elder's past and present. 4 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: This episode contains discussion of suicide. If this raises any 5 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: issues for you, support is available through the links and 6 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: phone numbers in the show notes. 7 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 2: It's April two thousand and nine and we're in southern Afghanistan. 8 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 2: Twenty eight year old Damien Tomlinson is here with the 9 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 2: Australian Defense Force. 10 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 3: He's here. 11 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:35,279 Speaker 4: He's made it, just four. 12 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 2: Years after ticking off his goal becoming a commando. This 13 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 2: elite group is tasked with the most physically demanding, mentally 14 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 2: challenging and dangerous roles in the armed forces. He's working 15 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:53,160 Speaker 2: a night patrol when his unit drive over a Taliban 16 00:00:53,280 --> 00:01:00,080 Speaker 2: ied The bomb explodes, leaving Damien fighting for his life. 17 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 2: He loses both of his legs and doctors say it's 18 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 2: a miracle he wasn't killed. I'm Ad Middleton and this 19 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 2: is head Game today, Damian Tomlinson with his extraordinary story 20 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 2: of reclaiming his life on his own terms. Damian Tomlinson, 21 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 2: it's an absolute pleasure to have you on my podcast 22 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 2: head Game. It's an honor to speak with one of 23 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 2: my own former Australian Defense Force two commando an elite 24 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 2: soldier tours of Afghanistan right up my street. I know 25 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:39,040 Speaker 2: that we're going to get on like a house on fire. 26 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 2: Talk to me about your childhood and your upbringing. Were 27 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 2: there any military roots for you to be pushed down 28 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 2: when you were young or did you just decide right, 29 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 2: I'm going to join the military at a young age 30 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 2: and you just cracked on or was there an influence 31 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 2: in your life? 32 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 4: Where did that all start? 33 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 5: Well? So I grew up a an hour and a 34 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 5: half Sydney, a place in the central Coast called terrible 35 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 5: for those that are in Australia, those that aren't lovely 36 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 5: place to visit, not to stuff out. And I don't know, 37 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:14,239 Speaker 5: I didn't feel like there was a lot of opportunity. 38 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 5: I didn't feel to inspire. But also sort of I 39 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 5: like got confused a little bit between my passion and 40 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 5: my hobby. You know, sport was a hobby as opposed 41 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 5: to being like a passion or something that I should 42 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 5: find to really work towards and in strive at. And 43 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:38,959 Speaker 5: I just had the moment I think where I'd gone through, 44 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 5: made a couple of bad decisions. You know, I had 45 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 5: a good group of friends, I had really support a 46 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,920 Speaker 5: group of people around me, but I sort of just 47 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 5: made choices that I think, you know, you get, you know, 48 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 5: you kind of want to go against the grain a 49 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 5: little when you're young, kind of like I'm going to 50 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 5: do my own thing, and then realize that the further 51 00:02:56,840 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 5: on you get, you know, you make the people around 52 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:03,519 Speaker 5: you that have got you know, sixty plus years experience 53 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 5: a right and that's. 54 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 2: That rebellious side that we all have until it's not down. Yeah, 55 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 2: it's got to get now to you somehow. 56 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 3: And the really good influence in my life's always been 57 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 3: my dad. 58 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:19,359 Speaker 5: You know, He's always been great for me. But here 59 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 5: are growing up, but we're very different people. You know, 60 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 5: we got totally different skill sets. Like the things that 61 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:28,839 Speaker 5: I go really well out at school and saw as 62 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:32,080 Speaker 5: really easy things to do, you know, I saw him 63 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 5: as simple. He then saw like they were to him, 64 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 5: they were the bits that took a lot of effort. 65 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 5: So he'd gone through getting his masters in applied science, 66 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 5: and to me, I was making physics feel easy. So 67 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 5: it was that that sort of thing, but then not 68 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 5: putting the effort. I just didn't apply myself to anything, 69 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 5: which I mean now I look back at kind of 70 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 5: it frustrates me because that's the only like sort of 71 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 5: what if, Like it was in me that I wanted. 72 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 3: Something that was bigger, you know, like I thought I could. 73 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 5: I don't know, I always thought, like I've I you 74 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 5: can call the delusion to grandeur, but it doesn't matter 75 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 5: what room I walk into a way as shoom I can. 76 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 3: Belong there, you know what I mean. 77 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 5: And let's face it, a majority of the rooms that 78 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 5: you walk into, as long as you look like you 79 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 5: should be there and have an attitude like you should 80 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 5: be there, no one's going to ask you a way. 81 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 4: There, so it could meet in effect, right, Yeah, it's just. 82 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 5: Like just just walk into it with a quiet confidence 83 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 5: that if the guy asks you a question about why 84 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 5: you're there, he's going to get escorted out. And I'd 85 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 5: always I always got to add that, but it was 86 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 5: it was more and more it was getting reinforced that 87 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,159 Speaker 5: it was totally unjustified, you know, like I just hadn't 88 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:43,119 Speaker 5: proven it. I hadn't proven I didn't have the runs 89 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:46,359 Speaker 5: on the board, and I remember going to him after 90 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 5: like him a few of his prophecies about me being 91 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 5: a laborer and doing whatever coming true. 92 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 3: I remember going and speaking to. 93 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 5: Him about it and tell me your story about wanting 94 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 5: to be an architect and that he didn't have the 95 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 5: right mass scores and you know you master's degree and 96 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 5: applied science. 97 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 3: There's mass involved, you know what I mean. 98 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 5: So and then he sort of finished it by going 99 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 5: and see, no one can tell you what you want 100 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 5: to do. I was like, okay, so what what should 101 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 5: I do? Just absolute crickets. There was nothing in the room. 102 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:24,720 Speaker 5: You know, we had just at this moment of like 103 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 5: looking at each other. You know, when you've known something 104 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 5: all along, you just haven't wanted to face it. I 105 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 5: think that was the moment where I decided, right now 106 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 5: is my time to to really like to face this one, 107 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:42,239 Speaker 5: you know, to make some form of difference. 108 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 4: And step up or to step forward, Yeah. 109 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 3: To give to you to really do it. 110 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 5: I don't know. I like, I look at who I 111 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:53,359 Speaker 5: was before this next moment, and you know, it was 112 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:55,279 Speaker 5: really easy to it was. It was easy for me 113 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 5: to go, oh, that's just not for me, you know, 114 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 5: you know, it's just not my thing. Well, I'll find 115 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 5: something else, like all just a quita's mentality. And I 116 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 5: remember when I went into the computer, I was too 117 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:10,479 Speaker 5: ashamed of use dad, so I used mums in the 118 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 5: study and went in and sat down at it. And 119 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:16,039 Speaker 5: there's this really cool picture of my granddad eighty three 120 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 5: rats that are Brooks thing with his rack of metals. 121 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 5: It's a little grin on his face. And I just 122 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 5: looked at it and I was so proud, And then 123 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 5: in the next second I was just super ashamed, you know, 124 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:31,840 Speaker 5: like I had done nothing that was even remotely close 125 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 5: to being worthy. You know those people who they go 126 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 5: who would you speak to if you had the chance 127 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:38,919 Speaker 5: that was two thousand and one had happened. 128 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 3: This is in two. 129 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 5: Thousand and three, I think late two thousand and three, 130 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:45,359 Speaker 5: And I thought, like, if I had the chance to 131 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 5: talk to him, what am I going to talk about? 132 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 5: You know, like, what am I gonna? I can't really 133 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 5: impress him with scoring at first grade hundred. I mean, 134 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,600 Speaker 5: like that's not it really doesn't make it, you know, 135 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 5: it's not the type of I don't know. 136 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:00,280 Speaker 3: I just felt like, sosh. 137 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:01,919 Speaker 4: You feel feel a bit worthless? 138 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I think so like, and I think it 139 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:07,919 Speaker 5: was sort of like as well, you know, I'd like 140 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 5: to believe I'm pretty overwhelmingly positive person, you know, like 141 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 5: I tend to believe the positive thing regardless of how 142 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 5: bad the circumstances in front of me is. And there 143 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 5: was more and more evidence that it was mounting that 144 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 5: I was really wrong, you know, like that I was, yeah, 145 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 5: that I was the person who And this is the 146 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 5: funny thing, like it took what happened later for me 147 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:37,119 Speaker 5: to understand that all of that was happening inside my head. 148 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 3: None of it reflected reality, you know, like I don't 149 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 3: know what someone's. 150 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 5: Opinion of me is and I don't care, and I 151 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 5: shouldn't have then, you know, like I was premeditating what 152 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 5: strangers I was working for thought or something of the sort. 153 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 5: When it was, you know, all of it was just 154 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 5: happening internally. So I looked at the looked at the computer. 155 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 5: There was a Special Forces direct recruiting scheme and at 156 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 5: that thing, I literally remember looking at the screen. Four 157 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 5: guys they're on rotation wonder Afghanistan, I find out later, 158 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 5: just walking away from the screen, like just picture of 159 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 5: their backs, and I was like that's it. That will 160 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 5: prove everyone who's said the thing like this. Not everyone 161 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 5: can do that. But I'm going to keep going until 162 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 5: it's done. 163 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 2: See that's what I love about you, Damen, is that 164 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 2: you looked at that and you didn't choose just an option. 165 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 2: You chose the hardest option, the most elite option, and 166 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 2: you just decided to jump in the deep end. How 167 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 2: did you get on? Did you did you struggle? Were 168 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 2: you treading water? Or did you thrive in that environment? 169 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 5: I quite liked it, Like, I mean, part of it 170 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 5: was me. You know, you're kind of like, you know, 171 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:56,559 Speaker 5: it's going to be hard, like it belt everyone. If 172 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,319 Speaker 5: anyone ever says, oh, special Forces, the selection didn't belt me, 173 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:02,719 Speaker 5: you're like, cool, I've never done it. 174 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 3: It's it's just one of those things. 175 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 5: But I think just like accepting the fact that it's 176 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 5: going to be really difficult and it's going to stretch, 177 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 5: Like I enjoyed the fact that every single thing that 178 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 5: I did was something that you can be proud of, 179 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 5: you know, like I wasn't and if you didn't, like 180 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 5: it's one of those no lose situations because if you're 181 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 5: not perfect that at the first time, it's harder than 182 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:25,319 Speaker 5: anything else you've ever done in your life. 183 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 3: You don't have to be perfect that at first go. 184 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 3: It's the effort of trying to like maintain, like build 185 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 3: and maintain those standards the entire way through your career, 186 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 3: which makes the difference, you know, when you start seeing 187 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 3: those small bits of progress. And I just learned it 188 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 3: was just this like positive reinforcing style thing. And I mean, 189 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 3: you know, it's it's obviously it's passable. It's doable, you know, and. 190 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 5: They're looking for for attributes, which I think Team Sport 191 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 5: sets you up for, you know. I mean part of 192 00:09:56,280 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 5: it is like just for me, there was no way 193 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 5: that I was ever no matter. 194 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 3: How much it hurt. That's what a special force to 195 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 3: soldier has to go through. To me, that was it. 196 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 2: That's like it's turning up every day committing every day 197 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 2: I sacrifice. People don't realize the sacrifice. And when I 198 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 2: say sacrifice, I mean personal sacrifice. 199 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 5: Yeah, And I mean the reality of that, the realities 200 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 5: that you faced during it. Like it's I remember I 201 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 5: was pretty like lucky when I did it. The only 202 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,959 Speaker 5: person who you know, I was looking out for this 203 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 5: stage was me, So like I can't I still blows 204 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 5: my mind now because I've got a family now and 205 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 5: I love them more than anything. But I didn't have 206 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 5: at that stage. I didn't have a girlfriend, I didn't 207 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 5: have kids. There was just me in this battle of 208 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 5: going okay, cool, I've got it, like I got to 209 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,959 Speaker 5: turn up here, and like some of the things are 210 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 5: such like gifts to the way that you handle adversity 211 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 5: because you've got no choice at the time. It's a 212 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 5: controlled environment, right, so you know you're not to like die. 213 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 5: If you do, you're pretty unlucky. But I remember like 214 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 5: doing things like on our hands. Of course we did 215 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 5: it and it was freezing cold. We've done this mud 216 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 5: run at five in the morning. Everyone had steam off them, 217 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 5: like mud and steam. It was down in Melbourne, which 218 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 5: is like Australia cold. It's not UK cold, but it's 219 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 5: you know, so sort of cold. We're getting closest to 220 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 5: the zeros and the water just oh god. I remember 221 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 5: the dad has jumping the water. Straight after it, we 222 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 5: get out and they go all right, go draw yourself off. 223 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 5: You know, you've got an unachievable time to get back 224 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 5: in that room ready to. 225 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:36,319 Speaker 3: Start your lessons. 226 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 5: So everyone's like, ah, you know, you're run it, you're 227 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 5: doing all your different stuff and you're standing out there 228 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 5: and you're ready to go in and they. 229 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 3: Said, why are you guys dry? Get in the water. 230 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 5: And you're like, all right, bag there's and then back 231 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 5: out of the water, straight into the license trying to 232 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 5: like write what you yeah, just everything wet, going oh 233 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 5: my god, like why trying. 234 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 3: To retain the information that you've you thought it and 235 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:01,959 Speaker 3: out in it. 236 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,840 Speaker 5: Like you don't get those sort of chances to stretch 237 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:10,439 Speaker 5: yourself in many places, you. 238 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 4: Know what I mean, normal walks of life. 239 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:13,839 Speaker 2: There's no way in a million years you get pushed 240 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 2: outside of your comfort zone like that not a chance. 241 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 2: And how did you feel when you passed selection? What 242 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 2: was your moment like when you got when you passed 243 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 2: your selection process? 244 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 5: It was this was like probably the most relief I've 245 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 5: felt in ages. 246 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:28,959 Speaker 3: Now you're sitting in this. 247 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 5: Room and you know, part of building tension is, you know, 248 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:36,080 Speaker 5: sensory deprivation, you know what I mean. So it's just 249 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 5: sitting in silence while something you feel like it should 250 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:41,559 Speaker 5: be happening. You learn that should is a word that 251 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 5: you can leave. 252 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 3: Out of your vocabulary. It's pointless. 253 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 5: But I remember sitting in there and they're counting names 254 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 5: off and there's good operators standing up, walking out of 255 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 5: the room, and then you're sort of looking back at 256 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 5: who's left, going ah, he fell asleep doing this. I 257 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 5: made a mistake on that this guy did this. That 258 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 5: guy was awesome, but could complain a bit like you know, 259 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 5: you had all these little bits that you sort of 260 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 5: looking at it, and you didn't you genuinely didn't know. 261 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 5: I remember Hans Fleer, he's a legend of the Australian 262 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 5: Special Forces, was doing his reading is what we've done, 263 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 5: and this is the you know, as we know the 264 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,319 Speaker 5: Special Force selection course and blah blah blah, and this 265 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 5: is that went through it and then go and it's 266 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 5: my pleasure to say that the attributes that I've just 267 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 5: listed all of your men possess. Congratulations blah blah blah. 268 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 3: And I remember like, ah. 269 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 5: It's it's indescribable, I think, because and that's at that 270 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 5: mean that moment, it wasn't about everyone else. It was 271 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 5: just like to me, it was me getting across the 272 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 5: line for me a bit, if that makes sense. And 273 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 5: I started to realize like, okay, so you've now proven 274 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 5: yourself because you start to this task, you stayed with it, 275 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 5: and now you know you've come out the other end. 276 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 5: And I remember ringing, Mum, she was just over the moon. 277 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 5: You know, both the folks were. They thought it was great. 278 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 5: Like every time that's me, you could see that was 279 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 5: so proud and it meant something. And the more the 280 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 5: further I went through my career, you learn just wearing 281 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 5: the flag is such an honor, you know. Like then 282 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 5: like everyone's just walking the same direction, you know, for 283 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 5: the same goal. And for you to achieve that goal, 284 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 5: everyone around you has to be good. Does that saying 285 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 5: you know your can or doesn't burn brighter if you 286 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 5: burn the blow the one next to you out. The 287 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 5: military's job is to light up a room. So if 288 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 5: you're the type of character that blows a candle out, 289 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 5: you're not wanted, you know what I mean, Like pack 290 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 5: your bags and go home. So and like I remember 291 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 5: like having my expectations changed, I think because you don't 292 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 5: know what to expect. You know, you've got guys all 293 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 5: shape sizes, building, we got guys with degrees, and you 294 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 5: know you've got guys who were tradesmen. You've guys who've 295 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 5: just chosen that path, you know, and then you've got 296 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 5: guys like me who sort of thought it was their 297 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 5: last chance, which now I look back, it's wild because 298 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 5: I was like twenty four. 299 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 2: It is insane right now You've got that pros and 300 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 2: that mindset, and but ultimately, is that mindset that pushed 301 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:22,479 Speaker 2: you into something as extreme and as elite as the Commandos? 302 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 5: Right? 303 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 3: Yeah? 304 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 5: Well I think it, and it almost it had to be, 305 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 5: I think, you know, I just don't think it would 306 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 5: have been fulfilling if it wasn't, you know what I mean? Like, 307 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 5: it's you get that I've noticed this, and would you 308 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 5: would have noticed this? With as your career progressed as well, 309 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 5: you meet a lot of people that have achieved enormous amounts, 310 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 5: are wildly successful, amazing what they do, and they're all 311 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 5: really cool. 312 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 3: You know what I mean, Like none of them. 313 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 5: You just like, how is this guy doing everything so 314 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 5: amazingly effortlessly? And the only thing I can put it 315 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 5: down to is because they found something that is their 316 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 5: passion that they've got nothing to prove. 317 00:15:59,320 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right. 318 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 3: They have scored the runs. They don't have to worry 319 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 3: about it. 320 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 2: And I don't know what it's like for the Aussie 321 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 2: Defense Force, but where I stepped up from the Marines 322 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 2: into a special Forces role, it's like, wow, the responsibility 323 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 2: you're taking on different roles and you know, more responsible 324 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 2: roles and roles that are just like giving you to 325 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 2: go right, We don't want to know what goes on, 326 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 2: just go get the job done. 327 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 4: You just do it. 328 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 5: Have to be able to do it unsupervised, and you 329 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 5: don't need orders to do it like you kind of 330 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 5: expected to know what to do with it or to 331 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 5: work it out, you know what I mean, And to 332 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 5: do it in a way where it's you could have 333 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 5: the highest ranking official in the military watching you the 334 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 5: whole time, you. 335 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 3: Know what I mean. That's the level of trust. 336 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 5: And I found that like really empowering when we're going 337 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 5: through the cycles. 338 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 3: But also it lifts your game, you know what I mean. 339 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 3: You hang out with people who have similar interests and 340 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 3: who are all striving to be better, your game just lifts, 341 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 3: you know what I mean, Your attitude changes. It's something 342 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 3: that you know it's and that's one of the things 343 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 3: that that world sort of does. But when I first 344 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 3: got there was just too I was I'm still young. 345 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 3: You know, I still had plenty of. 346 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 4: Young naive keen. You know, yeah, you. 347 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:07,880 Speaker 5: Think you think it's the toughest guy. You know, you're 348 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 5: in a thing that's going to ask a lot of 349 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 5: you when it comes to combat. So I've got to 350 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:15,120 Speaker 5: be ready to We've all got to be ready type thing. 351 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,919 Speaker 5: And you're like, it's not that, It's like EQ is 352 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 5: the new tough. You've now got to know how to 353 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 5: control your emotions and use them effectively in each environment, 354 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:28,479 Speaker 5: which I think is that alpha plus mindset is like, 355 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 5: you know, you've got to be willing to go there, 356 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 5: but you've also got to have the intelligence to know 357 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 5: when you have to go there, because like most people 358 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,439 Speaker 5: that you can see that will go there, there's like 359 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 5: one time in a thousand that you might need to. 360 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:45,439 Speaker 2: And also I think what's super powerful about you know, 361 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 2: emotional intelligence is when positive people around you take charge 362 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:52,359 Speaker 2: of your emotions, you know, to push you through that 363 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 2: door to get you, you know, the other side of 364 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 2: where you need to be. But also being emotionally intelligent 365 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 2: enough to realize when someone else is struggling emotionally and 366 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 2: you come along and you you you help them, you know, 367 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:10,640 Speaker 2: Harness that emotion to achieve whatever's in front of you. God, 368 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 2: that's when trust. That's when a bond takes place. That's when, 369 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 2: I truly believe when emotional intelligence is fused, that's when 370 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 2: you start you can really trust that person. Well, I've 371 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:23,200 Speaker 2: let that person or that person's taking control of my emotions. 372 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 2: There's that bond, there's that trust bang is sealed. 373 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they're in there. 374 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 5: And I mean, like I think a big hurdle for 375 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 5: me when it came to that was it's almost like 376 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 5: as a person, I'd changed before I was going in, 377 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:36,679 Speaker 5: and I'd accepted that change. 378 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 3: I was now going to be Damian the soldier, you know. 379 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 5: And then and that guy had to be tough, you know, 380 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:45,440 Speaker 5: he had to have all these different attribu We had 381 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 5: to do all the things that made that which just 382 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:49,880 Speaker 5: you know, it's you're just kind of wearing a mask 383 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 5: the whole time. 384 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 4: And I think it was a defense mechanism, isn't it? 385 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 5: Yeah? 386 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 3: Essentially? And I was I mean, the fans is probably. 387 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 4: Putting on your body armor, You're putting on your mask. 388 00:18:58,440 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 3: You yeah, ready to go. 389 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:01,880 Speaker 5: But like I learned when we were we were on 390 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:07,119 Speaker 5: my first apply, second deployment. We've done a little to Fiji, 391 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 5: but I was on my deployment to each team or 392 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,880 Speaker 5: and I just kind of got tired of the tough thing, 393 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:19,880 Speaker 5: you know. When we It's ease team was gorgeous. It's 394 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 5: in Indonesian Island, just north of Australia, coral refall around it. 395 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 5: We were doing a pretty pedestrian like peacekeeping, tight style job, 396 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 5: so we're just working out a lot. It was near 397 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,640 Speaker 5: a beach, and I kind of I slipped back into 398 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 5: just being the surfer from the Central Coast. Like that's 399 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 5: I stopped talking in a military way. I started just 400 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 5: unless I needed to. You know, you obviously got to 401 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 5: know when to need it to. And I found then 402 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:48,399 Speaker 5: like people gravitated to the freedom of that, and I 403 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 5: found it got the best out of me because I 404 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 5: was just being me. 405 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 4: It's refreshing late. 406 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 5: Yeah, well, like that's the thing. You don't have to 407 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 5: add anything, you don't have to change anything. If somebody 408 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 5: doesn't like European, that's cool. If you don't like someone 409 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 5: else's that's cool as well. 410 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 2: So you've got all your life in order, everything's going 411 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 2: to plan. 412 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 4: You're you're happy. 413 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, you found your belonging, and then you deployed to 414 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 2: Afghanistan and in April of two thousand and nine, boom bam. 415 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 2: Your whole world is literally flipped upside down along with yourself. 416 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 2: Can you take us back to that ied strike and 417 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 2: what you can remember from that blast? 418 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,680 Speaker 3: I can. I can remember as much as you can 419 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,679 Speaker 3: and nothing. Well, yeah, really you're on it. 420 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 5: Like I've read, I've read the reports of the days before. 421 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 5: We were in a like an nine hour firefight the 422 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 5: day of. 423 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:04,120 Speaker 3: I can't remember any of it. 424 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 5: I can't. 425 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, I've got I've got little bits. 426 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:13,119 Speaker 5: Of parts that like, I can remember different contacts that 427 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 5: we had and a couple of different spots, like you know, 428 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 5: overwatched positions and some small conversations, but not not the 429 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 5: group orders. Like I remember an orders group that we 430 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 5: had getting shot up that I thought was the day of, 431 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,639 Speaker 5: but it was nearly a week earlier. 432 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:37,879 Speaker 2: So yeah, But well, essentially, what's the first memory that 433 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 2: you that you have as in Germany, I was you've been, 434 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 2: You've been the incident that happened, You're on a patrol, bang, 435 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 2: you get blown up, and the next memory after that 436 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 2: is you're in Germany. Yeah, hospital in Germany and like 437 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 2: the for a bit of content. So I got hit 438 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 2: at about ten o'clock ten thirty. My vehicle jump did 439 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,360 Speaker 2: like a ninety degree turn. Guy next to me blew 440 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 2: his ear drum out. Kidd in the back was knocked 441 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 2: out as well. 442 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 3: Woke up. They came. 443 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:19,199 Speaker 5: My right leg was gone. Left was broken, like really badly. 444 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,880 Speaker 5: It's the coolest X ray and I can't find it now. 445 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:24,719 Speaker 5: I don't know where it's gone, but it's it looks bad. 446 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,159 Speaker 3: My right elbow was hanging out somewhere around here. 447 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 5: The bones were broken, the hand was busted, this arm, 448 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 5: that thumb like my nose was shattered, cut a little 449 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 5: bit of cosmetic damage. 450 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:42,479 Speaker 4: Where were you when when the straps happened? 451 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 3: So I was driving, Yes, I was driving. 452 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 4: So you were in the driver so you you you 453 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:47,479 Speaker 4: got the full front of it. 454 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, so it went off on the front right wheel. 455 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:53,439 Speaker 5: And I mean that's something that took me like a 456 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 5: while to actually ask. You know what I mean, just 457 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,159 Speaker 5: because you do what you can to minimize risk, you 458 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 5: know you're fighting, you find the wall. That's the best 459 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,119 Speaker 5: thing you can do is make sure that you know 460 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 5: you're doing as much as you can to minimize the 461 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 5: risk of something like that happening. 462 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 3: So we were driving in. 463 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 5: Each other's wheel tracks, no light, everyone on, everyone wearing 464 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 5: night vision, Like obviously you can hear the cars, but 465 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 5: if you're on the side of a mountain, it's hard 466 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,639 Speaker 5: to still hard to shoot at we're traveling in a 467 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 5: period of darkness as well. So yeah, I was looking 468 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 5: through and I had to say, like, eventually to one 469 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 5: of the guys who the guy was next to me, 470 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,640 Speaker 5: who with this is wild. We grew up three suburbs 471 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 5: away from each other. He's a year younger than me, 472 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 5: and we'd never met, and we now are both out 473 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 5: of the army. We live two suburbs away from each other, 474 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 5: and every now and then we had beers. But yeah, 475 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,119 Speaker 5: he's I remember saying to him and just going, look, 476 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 5: all right, I need you, need you to tell me 477 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:52,679 Speaker 5: the truth about this. 478 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 3: Did I fall asleep like we've been up the day 479 00:23:57,960 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 3: we ten days earlier. 480 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 2: Beating your self up automatically, You're beating yourself up, like 481 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 2: how did I do? You're not fucking a sleep mate, 482 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 2: You're fucking driving vehicle. You're probably like on a hyper alert, 483 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 2: which I know that you do. And I don't get 484 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 2: food fatigue. You're you're you're there right, You're present, especially 485 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,119 Speaker 2: through the green light, you know, through the way that 486 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:18,919 Speaker 2: you fell asleep. 487 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 4: Bro, you're on. 488 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 5: So that was that was what I was thinking. I 489 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 5: was like, how And that's also like if if that 490 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,439 Speaker 5: was the case. All I was thinking was, that's the 491 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,400 Speaker 5: biggest that fuck I could have cost someone Like I'm 492 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,879 Speaker 5: cool with me, Like, I'm one hundred percent cool with 493 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,400 Speaker 5: me getting hit, But if that was to cost one 494 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 5: of the other guys, and it had fallen, and he 495 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,160 Speaker 5: just goes, no, we just were driving in the tracks, 496 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 5: but where we were and then there was little like 497 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 5: sort of like little boulders and we were kind of 498 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 5: getting bottlenecked through. So and you kind of because you 499 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,440 Speaker 5: can only you can see the tracks and go as 500 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 5: close as possible to it. And he just goes, well, 501 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 5: because we were like fifth or sixth car in the 502 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 5: convoy moving up, there'd been ATV's go up and one 503 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 5: of the boys was like he was literally kneeling down 504 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 5: looking back at it. After it's tough to say into 505 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 5: the boss, I think we should sweep this hill before 506 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 5: we go up, And the boss apparently said, look, mate, 507 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:20,159 Speaker 5: what's your fascination with sweeping hills. But this is also 508 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 5: like I don't remember being in the middle of like 509 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 5: the first massive contact. 510 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:25,160 Speaker 3: That we had. 511 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 5: We're behind an embankment and he was holding his rifle 512 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,400 Speaker 5: in the middle of the rifle, just casually ambling over 513 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 5: to our car, like literally as if he was about 514 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 5: to give us a sandwich. All right, boys, So you 515 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 5: know he's a Welsh bloke, really cool guy, and he's oh, 516 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 5: you know, there's some blah blah blah blah blah, then 517 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:43,879 Speaker 5: just wanders on back like as if he was out 518 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 5: in the park, And I thought, this guy's all right, 519 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:48,640 Speaker 5: So that's how cool you have to be when you're 520 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 5: in like a high level of combat. 521 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:55,440 Speaker 3: All right, sweet, we've got the bar. But yeah, so 522 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 3: the poor thing. 523 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 5: I feel worse for that guy because it was his 524 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 5: first appointment doing that role and he didn't know whether 525 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 5: he should push back. And at that stage, in our 526 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 5: units involved in Afghanistan, the offshore of command would say 527 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:13,639 Speaker 5: we need troops here here, here on a mat and 528 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 5: then go reec on a sniper group. Yeah, form a path, 529 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 5: whereas then it went, we need this objective. You know, 530 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,639 Speaker 5: we've got these two buildings, how can we get there safely? 531 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,439 Speaker 5: So it sort of flipped after mine. But yeah, so 532 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,200 Speaker 5: I was I was pretty messed up. But I remember asking, 533 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 5: like you ask everyone, and I left. 534 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 3: I left time. This is the weirdest thing. And I 535 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 3: mean one of the yeah, one of the boys is passed. 536 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,880 Speaker 5: He he committed suicide years later, and he was sort 537 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 5: of on the way to that, but he was one 538 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 5: of the ones that I went on. I said, look, 539 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 5: I I just I wanted to talk to you about it, 540 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:56,160 Speaker 5: but I didn't want you to have to go back there, 541 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 5: you know, like and like I was on the around 542 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 5: for fifty six minutes. Boil accounts he woke up the 543 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 5: next day just blood all over his cams. You know, 544 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 5: he couldn't even take his cams off because he just 545 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 5: he tapped me on the shoulder. 546 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,159 Speaker 3: They had to because both arms were broken so badly. 547 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 5: They wouldn't let me on the helo without arms folded 548 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 5: across my chest. And his name's Aian Turner, and Turns 549 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 5: just goes all right, it's like you got an elbow 550 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,399 Speaker 5: hanging out, and he's like, apparently I didn't take that 551 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 5: as well as some of the other stuff. But you know, 552 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 5: he kind of tapped me and just said goodbye because 553 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 5: he thought it was too far gone. 554 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 3: There's enough fluid had gone through me. 555 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,880 Speaker 5: Like it was sort of just he was emotionally processing 556 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,160 Speaker 5: the fact that, you know, I wasn't gonna make it. 557 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 5: And I remember talking to him about it, and I 558 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,120 Speaker 5: had to ask this because he's just one of those 559 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:49,959 Speaker 5: guys who would just tell you straight out. 560 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:54,919 Speaker 3: So I was like, all right, turns, So did I 561 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 3: cry like a bitch? But what was it? 562 00:27:57,760 --> 00:27:59,639 Speaker 5: Because you never know, you never know what anyone's going 563 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 5: to be like in a situation until we're in it. 564 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 5: And I'm like, brod, did I? And he's like, nah, man, 565 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 5: you actually like took it pretty well, Like I mean really, 566 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 5: like was I conscious? And then once it had opened, 567 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 5: it turned out that we were waiting for it was 568 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,400 Speaker 5: eight years at that stage to talk to each other 569 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 5: about something, you know, and both of us wanted to 570 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,639 Speaker 5: talk to the other person about it, but we're thinking 571 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 5: that we were protecting that person from having. 572 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 3: To live it. 573 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 2: And did that help you through your recovery talking to 574 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:32,879 Speaker 2: these people? Did that come later on down the line? 575 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 5: I mean, to be honest, I think that guilt was 576 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 5: probably the most important part of my recovery, they. 577 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 4: Did guilt was the most important. 578 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 5: I would I would I mean, looking back, I would 579 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 5: say so that and just the mindset of I'm making 580 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 5: progress if it hurts, you know what I mean, like 581 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 5: it's And then you've got doctors who are just used 582 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 5: to dealing with punters who go in with a saw. 583 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 3: Knee or whatever. 584 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 5: And then I'm like, I don't really care what what 585 00:28:58,480 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 5: you guys have got to do. 586 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 3: I'm going to be doing this. 587 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 5: You're either going to be someone who's on the journey 588 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 5: with me to do this, or I'm going to find 589 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 5: someone who is you know what i mean. 590 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 3: Like and that. 591 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 5: So I never really looked at a lot of the 592 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 5: because to me, I was still me, you know. But 593 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 5: I definitely knew that everyone on that night saw something 594 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 5: they were never going to unsee. And apparently the time 595 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 5: where every now and then because they had moved to 596 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 5: white light to save me, you know, they've done everything 597 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 5: they could turn the caves and stuff like that, but 598 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 5: the village because you can hear what they're saying on 599 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 5: their icon radios. There was a huge, huge conference, like 600 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 5: there was way more of them than we originally thought. 601 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 5: But we're basically saying, let's light them up, so everyone's 602 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 5: posturing and getting ready. If one shot got fired, the 603 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 5: US chopper wouldn't have got me out and I'd be dead. 604 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 5: Well at the minute of the troops in contact would 605 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 5: have happened. 606 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 3: That rings through. I'm a flag on my parents' mantle piece. 607 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:07,720 Speaker 4: And what did you manage to keep? 608 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 3: Then? 609 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 2: What did you lose? And what did you manage to keep? 610 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 2: Because I was looking pretty grim at one moment that 611 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 2: you're going to lose your arms. 612 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 5: Yeah, So when my parents found out, the word was 613 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 5: he's really low single digit percentage chance of living and 614 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 5: if he does, it's going to be a triple ampeteue like. 615 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 3: And at that stage I was in. 616 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 5: At Camp Bastion, which is the UK base, with the 617 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 5: trauma team, under a space blanket and if I couldn't 618 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 5: hold my body heat, I was I was gone. So 619 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 5: that was that was when they found out. And I mean, 620 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 5: it's so disjointed when you get back, but to me, 621 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 5: I woke up and I was still mate. 622 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 2: You seem to have tackled it with a super positive mindset. 623 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 2: Do you think if you hadn't, do you think there's 624 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 2: any gray areas herel do you think you go to, 625 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 2: you stoop to the lowest of the lows where you 626 00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 2: don't want to be here anymore? And did that mindset 627 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 2: ever take charge? 628 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 3: I got to dark places through it. 629 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 5: Yeah, I definitely did, but not in the initial phases 630 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 5: for me were like, I remember having this comment with 631 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 5: my dad because he's always said, you've never used your brain. 632 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 5: It's just disappointing. He walked in with his great, big 633 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 5: grin on his face. I'm like smiling at him, were 634 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 5: having a laugh, like in a hospital, and he goes, well, 635 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 5: you got to use your. 636 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 3: Brain now, don't you. 637 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 4: Good old dad, you got me TV. 638 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 5: I'm gonna now, and then you know he's sort of 639 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:29,239 Speaker 5: mapping out her up. We've got to change, we've got 640 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 5: to do different things. But to me, the most important 641 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 5: thing was there's a group of guys who have gone 642 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 5: through something that I can't imagine seeing, let alone it 643 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 5: being something you care about, and they have somehow kept 644 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:44,240 Speaker 5: me alive. 645 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 3: So the mess that I could see, I saw was. 646 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 5: The result of people's effort on the ground, you know, 647 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 5: which I still see it as that. 648 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:51,480 Speaker 3: It's what it is. 649 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 5: So I've got to try and do something that then 650 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 5: has them know how good of a job they've done. 651 00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 5: So to me, I then had a finite online of 652 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 5: when they were flying home and I had to be 653 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 5: up walking standing in a pair of jeans so you 654 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 5: couldn't see prosthetic legs, and it didn't matter what it took. 655 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 5: And then like there were bits where like it it 656 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 5: hurts a lot. 657 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 2: That was your goal, that was your next objective, that 658 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 2: was your next mission, which again we talk about purposes, 659 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 2: like and you've done everything that you can to make 660 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 2: sure that you've done that. 661 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, And I mean I was like, by all accounts, 662 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 5: I was probably one of the worst patients in the 663 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 5: history of North Shore Private Hospital because I was just 664 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 5: done compromising with it. You know, if I didn't think 665 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 5: and right or wrong, didn't think that someone was aligned 666 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 5: with my goals, I would like remove them from the 667 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 5: process or ignore their advice. You know, I just go 668 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 5: all right, I've been through enough to know where I'm 669 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 5: going with this, Like I know my limits. You don't 670 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 5: like there's a picture of me like five weeks after 671 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 5: on a prosthetic that you're not really supposed to wait 672 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 5: bear through. But I was like, I'm going down the 673 00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 5: hall on this because we've got so I'm on one 674 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 5: of those walking is pushing it along with the thing 675 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 5: like and there's just concerned face. 676 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 4: Tracking his prosthetic leg along. 677 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 3: Yeah. 678 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 5: Well and I'm just like, okay, cool, well, this is 679 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 5: what we've got to do this. I'm still played it 680 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 5: at the time like there's a lot of stuff going 681 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 5: wrong with it. But i was like, I'm not going 682 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 5: to heal laying down and they're like you just you 683 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 5: just you got to rest, you gotta rest. And I'm 684 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 5: like everyone tells me to rest, like go home, you rest, Like, 685 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 5: get it up. I've got stuff to do. 686 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 2: Talk about using rehab and you know, reshaping your life 687 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 2: and coming out the other side with a positive mindset 688 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 2: that you have. 689 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 4: You went, I'm looking at my notes in front of me. 690 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 2: You got a golfing career and a snowboarding career. Where 691 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 2: the hell did that come from? Where the hell did 692 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 2: you just think yourself right? Because you're actually extremely good 693 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,360 Speaker 2: with both, aren't you. It says here that you are 694 00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:03,400 Speaker 2: deferred multi emputy golfer, thirdinked, multi ampity golfer in the world. 695 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 2: Just to walk again and live your life and try 696 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,200 Speaker 2: and be normal wasn't enough for you. You then had 697 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 2: to go on and do these amazing things. And we 698 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:15,440 Speaker 2: can talk about the Evictors Games, but just that rehab, 699 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,320 Speaker 2: really you use that to your advantage. 700 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 3: I mean I had that's the thing. 701 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:21,600 Speaker 5: I had the tools, you know what I mean, Like 702 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 5: that's one thing that special Forces does. It just prepares 703 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:25,799 Speaker 5: you for stuff like that, you know what I mean, 704 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,880 Speaker 5: Like hard then just becomes part of the process. 705 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:31,920 Speaker 3: Then people are going on and it was a consistent thing. 706 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,800 Speaker 5: But guys from our unit that got the medical staff 707 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,320 Speaker 5: after a few years got used to the fact that 708 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:41,120 Speaker 5: would heal quickly. You know, they'd be doing things at 709 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:44,400 Speaker 5: crazy paces and I mean, I just need something to 710 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:45,240 Speaker 5: keep me going. 711 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:51,319 Speaker 2: Actor as well, Actor, you've got your how do you 712 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:53,760 Speaker 2: get into a tour of this and then become again 713 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,400 Speaker 2: the best at what you do with no legs. 714 00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 3: I left the Army. 715 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,880 Speaker 5: I had done a a winter sports camp and snowboarding 716 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,759 Speaker 5: was the closest thing I could get to surfing. I 717 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,880 Speaker 5: went too hard on my second tour to Utah. I 718 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 5: was riding with Team Utah's Adaptive snowboarding team, and I 719 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:12,799 Speaker 5: compression fraction. 720 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:16,560 Speaker 3: Of my back my OL two, which I mean now. 721 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:20,360 Speaker 5: It fractioned something on everything, so kind of completed a picture. 722 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 5: Then I came back and I you know, I was 723 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,759 Speaker 5: doing well the motivational speaking. I feel that like it's 724 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 5: my responsibility, after being through something that's that complex, to 725 00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,240 Speaker 5: share what it looks like from the inside of the bottle, 726 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:34,040 Speaker 5: you know what I mean. 727 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:35,080 Speaker 3: Everyone can read the. 728 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,880 Speaker 5: Outside, so it's my job to tell them what's on 729 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,239 Speaker 5: the inside. And I find that inner vulnerability is a 730 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 5: really important part of that, you know, people seeing the 731 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,279 Speaker 5: true you, which is when I really feel like the 732 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:48,400 Speaker 5: last bits of armor came off. You know, I can't 733 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 5: control what's you know, of all things that come into fashion, 734 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,880 Speaker 5: skinny jeans, when you're wearing prosthetics that are tiny, you 735 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 5: know what I mean. Like then you start going, well, 736 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 5: I can't care about what people think now, you know, 737 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:01,880 Speaker 5: it's now well, just I've got to do things for 738 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:05,120 Speaker 5: the right reason. And at the end, when I was young, 739 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,840 Speaker 5: I probably would have wanted to be an actor, you know, 740 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,720 Speaker 5: I loved I love performing, except it was never something 741 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:13,839 Speaker 5: that you know, my dad was bigger than numbers. And 742 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 5: you know in the US, people who are who are 743 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:21,480 Speaker 5: on SAG, there's how many of them there's three percent 744 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 5: of them that are making enough money to provide an income, 745 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,000 Speaker 5: and then the top hundred thousand, you know what I mean. 746 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:28,720 Speaker 3: Like it's wild. 747 00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:30,520 Speaker 5: But yeah, when I was but I went to an 748 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 5: acting school just going I just want to do it 749 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:36,480 Speaker 5: because no one thinks I can. And I'm all right, 750 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 5: I'm going to give you the secret to it. With 751 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:47,839 Speaker 5: any of these things, no one expects a disabled guy. 752 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:49,919 Speaker 5: So it was just funny. It's ironic that I've said 753 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:51,719 Speaker 5: I don't care what anyone thinks, and now now I've 754 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,040 Speaker 5: started that with what people think. No one expects it 755 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:57,359 Speaker 5: disable guy to do it anyway. So you do it, 756 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,239 Speaker 5: you win, you don't do it, you haven't disappointed any one. 757 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,279 Speaker 5: Like I played golf now with guys who like I 758 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 5: hit the ball a long way. I've just always had 759 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 5: the talent to hit a big ball, and now it's 760 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,919 Speaker 5: just controlling that. That's been the fun. Build a set 761 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:14,040 Speaker 5: a prosthetics around it. But like, so I play other 762 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 5: guys who are big hitters. If we both get one 763 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:20,880 Speaker 5: and I turned to you and we're kind of nodding, 764 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:21,920 Speaker 5: and we know it's on. 765 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:24,359 Speaker 3: This guy. 766 00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:30,680 Speaker 5: This guy's got two options, right, one, I drove him, 767 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,400 Speaker 5: and you got out driven by a double amputee. The 768 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:35,479 Speaker 5: other option is. 769 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:37,200 Speaker 3: You out drove a handicap guy. 770 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know what I mean, like you want to 771 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:41,799 Speaker 4: lose loose. 772 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, you're just always fighting a lose loose, so it is. 773 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:46,880 Speaker 3: And then the hatsort, the hat sort of thing was 774 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 3: like this a similar sort of thing. 775 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 5: I mean, I learned that, you know, I wasn't as 776 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,440 Speaker 5: good an actor as I thought I would have been 777 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,640 Speaker 5: growing up. It's been two years at school and then 778 00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 5: one of my teachers was auditioning for it, and then 779 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:01,480 Speaker 5: I just gone on the set and I don't know 780 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 5: if you might have come across John Ales. He Yeah, 781 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:09,120 Speaker 5: he's one of our one of our ex sas plugs 782 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 5: who works in that sort of industry, and so he 783 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:13,920 Speaker 5: was the weapons tech we turn up for a week. 784 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,160 Speaker 5: I've got Vince Vaughn, Sam Worthington. I'm literally thinking I've 785 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:21,279 Speaker 5: died and just gone to this Hollywood and then you know, 786 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:23,719 Speaker 5: like Spider Man standing over there, who you can't say 787 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:24,759 Speaker 5: Spider Man you're in but. 788 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:28,719 Speaker 3: Yeah, and then I know the weapons tech. 789 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,239 Speaker 5: Hey, John, here you going man, like you know, and 790 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,120 Speaker 5: then all of a sudden I felt comfortable in that 791 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,640 Speaker 5: world and yeah, it's a it's a cool story to 792 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 5: be a part of. 793 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,720 Speaker 2: So you know what your story is written in your book, 794 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,960 Speaker 2: and you know if people want to continue with knowing 795 00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:49,719 Speaker 2: the full story and your your amazing mindset. Because we 796 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:53,560 Speaker 2: are running out of time here, unfortunately. But you wrote 797 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:57,160 Speaker 2: an autobiography which I would hugely recommend to everyone because 798 00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:58,960 Speaker 2: I could speak to you for hours, mate, and we 799 00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:03,040 Speaker 2: still wouldn't have enough time. It's called Without Warning? When 800 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 2: did you write that? And what can we expect? 801 00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:06,840 Speaker 3: In the book run. 802 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,880 Speaker 5: In twenty twelve, and it focuses primarily like on the 803 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,239 Speaker 5: how I got to the space that I was in, 804 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:17,319 Speaker 5: and then I wanted to take everyone again. I saw 805 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:19,880 Speaker 5: it as my responsibility. I wanted everyone who's reading the 806 00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:23,440 Speaker 5: book to understand the spaces. So there's some language in 807 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:27,759 Speaker 5: it that is quite colorful. There are some opinions that 808 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:29,640 Speaker 5: I don't think I would agree with, Like if I 809 00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:33,520 Speaker 5: was to rewrite the story now, it would be a 810 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:34,880 Speaker 5: completely different looking book. 811 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 3: But just unapologetically take someone into the. 812 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:40,880 Speaker 5: Spot, because you know, I don't if I'm reading a 813 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,279 Speaker 5: book about someone who's been through something that's difficult, you know, 814 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,359 Speaker 5: I don't want to know what the colorful roses look 815 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:48,440 Speaker 5: like or something of that sort, you know what I mean, Like, 816 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:51,400 Speaker 5: I want to know the bits that you can't see, 817 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:55,160 Speaker 5: you know, So I really tried to sort of communicate 818 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,640 Speaker 5: that when I when I was writing it. So there's 819 00:39:57,760 --> 00:39:59,520 Speaker 5: there's bits of it that I just think, Oh my god, 820 00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:01,560 Speaker 5: it you Why pick it up? 821 00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:03,880 Speaker 4: That's what I say to everyone. Pick it up. Damon. 822 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:07,480 Speaker 2: It's been an absolute pleasure, mate. Talking with you, Like 823 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:08,960 Speaker 2: I said, I could chat with you for hours is 824 00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:11,120 Speaker 2: such an honor and I love It's refreshing for me 825 00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,040 Speaker 2: to speak with one of my own as well, and 826 00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:13,960 Speaker 2: to have you on here. 827 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:14,760 Speaker 4: Mate, it's been a pleasure. 828 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:16,200 Speaker 3: Thank you, Damon. I appreciate it. 829 00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:19,960 Speaker 2: Bud, thanks so much for joining me on Headgame. If 830 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,120 Speaker 2: you enjoyed this episode, make sure you're subscribed so you 831 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:26,319 Speaker 2: don't miss any of our incredible stories, and leave me 832 00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:28,680 Speaker 2: a review wherever you're listening. 833 00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,359 Speaker 4: I'm Aunt Middleton. Catch you again next time.