WEBVTT - Rob Woodhouse, CEO Swimming Australia 0:00:05.881 --> 0:00:13.481 Apoche Production. Welcome to another episode of Brave Always the 0:00:13.521 --> 0:00:16.841 CEO series. This series, we launch into the new world 0:00:17.001 --> 0:00:18.480 of brave leadership. 0:00:18.601 --> 0:00:20.721 Happy people create happy businesses. 0:00:20.561 --> 0:00:24.241 True emotionally intelligent leadership. I picked up vomit once on 0:00:24.241 --> 0:00:26.640 our about our fourth flight, and everybody thought, well, if 0:00:26.641 --> 0:00:28.161 it's good enough for him, I can do it. 0:00:28.201 --> 0:00:28.401 Now. 0:00:28.481 --> 0:00:31.601 We will be joined by culture and leadership experts and 0:00:31.641 --> 0:00:35.481 some superstar CEOs who will courageously tell us the truth 0:00:35.521 --> 0:00:38.921 behind their brave leadership journeys. Today is a very special 0:00:39.001 --> 0:00:42.081 day for me here because this is my first interview 0:00:42.161 --> 0:00:44.761 with my first ever Olympian. But more than that, this 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:47.601 man is a legend when it comes to swimming. Respected 0:00:47.601 --> 0:00:51.480 across the sports business and swimming communities for almost thirty years. 0:00:51.881 --> 0:00:55.201 An Olympian who represented Australia at both the eighty four 0:00:55.321 --> 0:00:58.121 and eighty eight Olympics as well as the eighty two, 0:00:58.321 --> 0:01:02.161 eighty six and nineteen ninety conworph Games. In twenty twenty two, 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:06.201 he became the first Australian Olympic middles to successfully swim 0:01:06.241 --> 0:01:09.721 the English Channel. Rows is a recently machine from the UK. 0:01:10.081 --> 0:01:12.481 Rob is now the CEO for Swimming Australia. And the 0:01:12.481 --> 0:01:15.200 incredible success of our twenty twenty four swimming team in 0:01:15.241 --> 0:01:17.560 Paris is a credit to the passion that you have 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:19.401 for this sport. And welcome to. 0:01:19.401 --> 0:01:22.001 The podcast, Rob, Thank you amm that great to be here. 0:01:22.081 --> 0:01:24.080 I think the list of achievements that I was reading 0:01:24.081 --> 0:01:26.481 about you could take the entire podcast, But as you know, 0:01:26.521 --> 0:01:31.361 we're on here talking about everything brave, which is bold, resilient, authentic, 0:01:31.481 --> 0:01:35.321 vulnerable and empathy. And for me, what's super important for 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:37.121 people to understand is that you don't get to the 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:40.521 level of success that you've experienced without having to work 0:01:40.521 --> 0:01:42.881 through all of those layers. Casting our mind back to 0:01:42.881 --> 0:01:45.000 the beginning very quickly. I know you were born in 0:01:45.041 --> 0:01:48.561 Melbourne and to what is considered swimming Royalty, with your dad, 0:01:48.601 --> 0:01:51.801 Tony Woodhouse and your sister Susie both a big part 0:01:51.841 --> 0:01:54.601 of the swimming culture in Australia. I wanted to ask 0:01:54.641 --> 0:01:57.160 you straight up growing up, was there ever an option 0:01:57.281 --> 0:01:58.201 not to be in swimming. 0:01:58.401 --> 0:02:00.561 That's a good question. I think it's an Australian way 0:02:00.601 --> 0:02:03.601 of life, isn't It certainly wasn't exclusively to our family. 0:02:04.721 --> 0:02:07.761 My parents did meet at a swimming club. My dad, 0:02:07.881 --> 0:02:10.481 Tony was involved with the PORTSI Surf Life Saving Club, 0:02:10.481 --> 0:02:12.441 but that now and half out of Melbourne. Yeah, both 0:02:12.481 --> 0:02:15.001 swimming was a part of their life. Who said, naturally 0:02:15.041 --> 0:02:18.201 became a part of our sel of five kids. We're 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:20.520 all thrown into the pool and take it to swimming lift. 0:02:20.641 --> 0:02:23.001 I guess we took to it very well and enjoyed it. 0:02:23.281 --> 0:02:25.881 From their progressed to swimming club level and swimming for 0:02:25.921 --> 0:02:28.321 the school, and then then club and state and then 0:02:29.201 --> 0:02:32.240 from assistants in I international art. So it was quite 0:02:32.281 --> 0:02:34.840 a journey. But no, I suppose possibly we didn't have 0:02:34.841 --> 0:02:36.201 any choice, but there was good. 0:02:36.881 --> 0:02:39.281 Yeah, sometimes you meet people and their parents do this 0:02:39.321 --> 0:02:41.601 one particular thing and then the kids don't really want to, 0:02:41.721 --> 0:02:44.001 but it's sort of kind of expected. I wasn't sure 0:02:44.041 --> 0:02:45.800 if that was kind of the way it was as 0:02:45.841 --> 0:02:49.081 a young man. When do you sort of first recall feeling, 0:02:49.161 --> 0:02:51.881 I guess any self doubt about swimming, and as you 0:02:51.881 --> 0:02:54.561 got into your professional swimming career, like did your dad 0:02:54.561 --> 0:02:56.240 and part some advice to you and how to work 0:02:56.281 --> 0:02:58.361 through that or was there another key mentor or does 0:02:58.401 --> 0:03:01.081 self doubt never come up and you were just going 0:03:01.121 --> 0:03:01.921 home from the get go? 0:03:02.881 --> 0:03:05.241 I think I decried my character as going I think 0:03:05.401 --> 0:03:07.961 is probably self doubt. It's probably always been there and 0:03:08.081 --> 0:03:11.240 still is in various areas and dated base decision making. 0:03:11.641 --> 0:03:14.120 So it was probably once I got to that international 0:03:14.201 --> 0:03:16.281 level that, yeah, selped doubt probably is the last way 0:03:16.321 --> 0:03:18.161 to describe it, because you do doubt and then you've 0:03:18.161 --> 0:03:21.121 got the ability to win a soor to execute the 0:03:21.161 --> 0:03:22.161 perfect ways and so on. 0:03:22.321 --> 0:03:24.160 I mean, such a young age, how did you talk 0:03:24.201 --> 0:03:24.841 yourself through that? 0:03:25.041 --> 0:03:28.161 Probably a combination and different things because been on the 0:03:28.201 --> 0:03:30.881 Australia team for a long time was ten years in all, 0:03:31.001 --> 0:03:33.761 and I'm sure there were periods of self doubt throughout 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:36.401 the time. It would have been mostly talking through with 0:03:36.441 --> 0:03:39.481 my coach or coaches at the time, possibly family members, 0:03:39.481 --> 0:03:42.841 particularly my sister Susie. My dad was always a role 0:03:42.881 --> 0:03:44.801 model to me and a hero to me and still is, 0:03:44.841 --> 0:03:47.441 and so you know, having conversations with him, I suppose, 0:03:47.481 --> 0:03:50.201 but mostly coaches, I suppose when I'm specific to swimming. 0:03:50.441 --> 0:03:52.681 Yeah, so you were only eighteen, if I'm right, when 0:03:52.721 --> 0:03:54.121 you competed in your first Olympics. 0:03:54.201 --> 0:03:55.361 Is it grit? Yeah, gruc. 0:03:55.721 --> 0:03:57.681 How really did you feel to take on something of 0:03:57.681 --> 0:04:00.401 that scale? What lessons do you think you learned at 0:04:00.401 --> 0:04:02.841 that point when you launched until Olympic Sis such a 0:04:02.881 --> 0:04:05.481 young age that you now feel have shaped the rest 0:04:05.481 --> 0:04:06.201 of your life. 0:04:06.561 --> 0:04:08.561 Yeah, it's a good question. At the time, I certainly 0:04:08.561 --> 0:04:10.521 felt I was ready, and that's being young was an 0:04:10.521 --> 0:04:13.481 advantage because you didn't really think too much about what 0:04:13.561 --> 0:04:15.361 it all meant and what a big deal it was. 0:04:15.481 --> 0:04:17.561 I started thinking about the Olympics probably when I was 0:04:17.561 --> 0:04:19.440 about ten or eleven years of age, but it never 0:04:19.481 --> 0:04:21.841 really dominated my thoughts or I was just a kid 0:04:21.921 --> 0:04:24.281 having fun swimming and being with my mates, and I 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:26.760 had a good capacity to work hard and set goals 0:04:26.801 --> 0:04:29.161 and things like that, and they're the things that probably 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:33.001 carried me through to representing Australia, but also through to 0:04:33.201 --> 0:04:34.921 everything else I've done in the sense, you know, that 0:04:34.961 --> 0:04:38.281 ability to set goals, to work with the team, to 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:40.801 manage my time, all those sort of skills that are 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:44.001 key to business, key to everything else in particularly sport. 0:04:44.281 --> 0:04:46.001 Yeah, it's true. I think that's one of the most 0:04:46.041 --> 0:04:48.241 beautiful things about sport for children, because I don't think 0:04:48.281 --> 0:04:50.561 we normally set goals very well, and whereas I think 0:04:50.601 --> 0:04:52.121 sport kind of forced you to do it so I 0:04:52.121 --> 0:04:54.401 think that's a very valuable lesson that people learn from 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:57.121 that age. Sometimes on the outside and it could be wrong. 0:04:57.401 --> 0:05:00.961 It appears that professional athletes can sometimes be invaluable, right, 0:05:01.201 --> 0:05:03.440 even though we know that's not true of humans. I'm 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:07.521 not sure how big being vulnerable was particularly pay pats 0:05:07.521 --> 0:05:10.281 at that period. So growing up, what was your view 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:13.880 on being vulnerable and talking about your struggles. Was that celebrated? 0:05:14.001 --> 0:05:15.801 Was it even encouraged? Was it and you just don't 0:05:15.801 --> 0:05:17.681 talk about it? Go have a cry and at the 0:05:17.721 --> 0:05:20.161 back when it doesn't go well, we did vulnerability sit 0:05:20.241 --> 0:05:20.641 fore then. 0:05:21.201 --> 0:05:24.440 Yeah, it's changed a lot. Vulnerability back then was probably 0:05:24.481 --> 0:05:27.281 more in that category of for goheid and the call 0:05:27.481 --> 0:05:29.681 somewhere and not talk about it. But like I said, 0:05:29.681 --> 0:05:32.361 that ability to earn a confidence to talk with some 0:05:32.401 --> 0:05:35.481 people that I trusted, like my coaches in particular, that 0:05:35.601 --> 0:05:37.960 was really really important. When I was swimming. It was 0:05:38.161 --> 0:05:41.161 just starting to creep into the area of sports psychology 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:43.760 even back then. It probably passed my career through into 0:05:43.761 --> 0:05:47.561 the ninety using a sports psychologist. It's all psychologists seen 0:05:47.601 --> 0:05:49.921 by someone it's a bit of a weakness, it's something 0:05:49.921 --> 0:05:51.881 wrong with you and you're not tough enough sort of thing, 0:05:51.921 --> 0:05:54.640 and whereas now it's absolutely accepted that that's going to 0:05:54.641 --> 0:05:57.041 be nouncid performance without a doubt, if you've got the 0:05:57.161 --> 0:05:59.361 right mindset and things like that. I suppose there was 0:05:59.361 --> 0:06:01.801 a little bit of a stigma about any sort of vulnerability, 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:04.681 and particularly amongst young men and boys you wanted to 0:06:04.761 --> 0:06:06.721 be look like you're tough and you've had it all 0:06:06.801 --> 0:06:07.440 under control. 0:06:07.721 --> 0:06:10.521 Was there a particular moment where you sort of felt 0:06:10.601 --> 0:06:13.320 like you're most exposed, like, oh God, I don't know. 0:06:13.281 --> 0:06:15.441 If I can do this. Probably moments of for why 0:06:15.481 --> 0:06:18.241 I perceived to be failure. If I didn't perform as 0:06:18.241 --> 0:06:21.640 well as I expected, I felt like I'd let myself down, 0:06:21.801 --> 0:06:24.481 let everyone else down. And you know, it's not until 0:06:24.961 --> 0:06:27.601 much later on that you realize that you've let no 0:06:27.641 --> 0:06:30.121 one doubt at all, that everyone's incredibly proud of you, 0:06:30.201 --> 0:06:32.601 and in fact, as an individual, you're more than likely 0:06:32.641 --> 0:06:35.281 you've done the absolute best you possibly could. That doesn't 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:40.041 necessarily mean having your ultimate performance on the day. That 0:06:40.361 --> 0:06:42.400 you've done the best you could in the preparation, the 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:45.241 whole lead up to whatever championship it is, and you 0:06:45.281 --> 0:06:47.441 just weren't good enough on the day or something might 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:50.801 have happened, but at the time that's probably that disappointing 0:06:50.841 --> 0:06:54.561 performance is probably that biggest moment, Maybe not embarrassment, but 0:06:54.761 --> 0:06:56.761 feeling failure and that vulnerability. 0:06:57.041 --> 0:07:00.361 Yeah, it's a lot brand person I describe and enjoy 0:07:00.481 --> 0:07:03.760 does being vulnerable as speaking from the messy middle, So 0:07:03.841 --> 0:07:05.481 when you don't have all the answer, That's how I 0:07:05.561 --> 0:07:07.681 like to describe it. So not always an easy thing 0:07:07.721 --> 0:07:09.961 to do when you play a prominent public role as 0:07:09.961 --> 0:07:12.361 you do. Now, how does vulnerability play it in your 0:07:12.401 --> 0:07:15.521 life now? So are you more comfortable doing that or 0:07:15.561 --> 0:07:17.081 is that still a bit of a struggle from those 0:07:17.121 --> 0:07:17.681 early days. 0:07:17.881 --> 0:07:20.761 Yeah, very much more comfortable. In fact, I think vulnerability 0:07:20.881 --> 0:07:24.841 amongst leaders is a strength. People like to see vulnerability 0:07:24.881 --> 0:07:27.321 amongst people they work with and people that lead them. 0:07:27.361 --> 0:07:30.441 They're being normal, they're back honest. It's not a sign weakness. 0:07:30.641 --> 0:07:33.401 I think the vulnerability. I don't deliberately show it, but 0:07:33.441 --> 0:07:36.081 there are times when I will be vulnerable, being honest, 0:07:36.121 --> 0:07:38.121 and I feel good about talking about that. I think 0:07:38.161 --> 0:07:40.041 others can relate to that at times as well. 0:07:40.281 --> 0:07:43.641 Absolutely, resilience, it's a big topic at the moment and 0:07:43.841 --> 0:07:45.721 it's often been seen in the past, I think, is 0:07:45.761 --> 0:07:47.601 that sort of tenacity that of like I just keep 0:07:47.641 --> 0:07:50.001 digging and digging, Whereas I think we know that it's 0:07:50.081 --> 0:07:52.761 much more multi faceted than that, and that we know 0:07:52.881 --> 0:07:54.881 times are going to be tough, we can expect it 0:07:54.921 --> 0:07:57.001 and we can kind of build the framework around as 0:07:57.001 --> 0:07:58.801 it's going to get us through. Right as I think, 0:07:58.841 --> 0:08:00.600 what is the big part about it? So I guess 0:08:00.601 --> 0:08:03.641 the preparation to be resilient during your some in career. 0:08:03.961 --> 0:08:06.041 Was it just you go in there with the plan 0:08:06.401 --> 0:08:08.281 or is it more sort of you know, watch give 0:08:08.281 --> 0:08:10.281 it my best shot. Or did you actually have strategies 0:08:10.281 --> 0:08:11.401 to be resilient back then? 0:08:11.681 --> 0:08:14.521 As certainly had strategies. And I guess resilience it wasn't 0:08:14.521 --> 0:08:16.921 a key word back then, and you had to work hard. 0:08:16.921 --> 0:08:18.641 I knew I had to put in the harveyard to 0:08:18.681 --> 0:08:21.481 do the miles, have my preparation right from a nutritional 0:08:21.521 --> 0:08:23.521 point of view, from in the gym, and all those 0:08:23.521 --> 0:08:25.921 sorts of things that I guess resilience is are part 0:08:25.961 --> 0:08:28.481 of all those scenes. On a day to day basis, 0:08:28.601 --> 0:08:30.721 it's a matter of turning up to a degree and 0:08:30.801 --> 0:08:33.681 just getting the job done without thinking too far ahead. 0:08:33.881 --> 0:08:35.801 And I think a lot of athletes have that they 0:08:35.881 --> 0:08:38.801 have their plan and they know they've got whatever the 0:08:38.841 --> 0:08:40.961 period of time is ahead of their brilliant big games 0:08:41.001 --> 0:08:43.361 or their world championship. I call it a four month 0:08:43.401 --> 0:08:46.561 preparation from the previous season, and my plan it out 0:08:46.721 --> 0:08:48.321 one week at a time, one day at a time, 0:08:48.321 --> 0:08:50.481 where every one session or one step at a time, 0:08:50.761 --> 0:08:53.761 that the resilience comes from getting that set done or 0:08:53.841 --> 0:08:56.561 that workout done good or band it's done. It's ticking 0:08:56.561 --> 0:08:59.361 a box and recovery and then thinking about the next line. 0:08:59.401 --> 0:09:02.281 It's just one step at a time, but also thinking really, 0:09:02.361 --> 0:09:04.241 just get through this day or get through this week 0:09:04.321 --> 0:09:06.761 before you know, eight weeks in and you've been two 0:09:06.761 --> 0:09:09.361 months ago, and all those sort of things. So I 0:09:09.401 --> 0:09:11.641 think that's for me what resilience was about when I 0:09:11.681 --> 0:09:14.121 was swimming, and business is a lot like that. We 0:09:14.161 --> 0:09:16.321 all have plans, we have strategies and so on, but 0:09:16.321 --> 0:09:17.961 at the end of the day, just like my sport, 0:09:18.041 --> 0:09:19.761 you've got to enjoy it and have fun and all 0:09:19.761 --> 0:09:22.321 those sort of things. So that sponsaneity comes into it 0:09:22.321 --> 0:09:25.081 as well, and that's really really important both within the 0:09:25.121 --> 0:09:29.441 sport for training perspective and competitions, perspective to enjoy process, 0:09:29.481 --> 0:09:32.241 and so on. But particularly in that work environment, it's 0:09:32.281 --> 0:09:34.081 got to be fun. You just go enjoy it. You've 0:09:34.081 --> 0:09:36.121 got to work hard, but you and your team are 0:09:36.281 --> 0:09:38.281 having a bit of funnel the way than what are 0:09:38.321 --> 0:09:38.761 you doing it for. 0:09:39.041 --> 0:09:41.241 I love think you said that because actually, if I 0:09:41.281 --> 0:09:43.801 look at like all the elements of resilience and the utenacities, 0:09:43.801 --> 0:09:45.561 one you talk about self care, which is what a 0:09:45.601 --> 0:09:47.681 lot of athletes do pretty well right in terms of 0:09:47.681 --> 0:09:50.041 looking after that, But you called out one that's really important, 0:09:50.081 --> 0:09:52.521 which is passion, right, which is where the joy comes from. 0:09:52.761 --> 0:09:54.641 How do you keep going if you're not enjoying it? 0:09:54.681 --> 0:09:57.001 That's where I think people fall over. So I think 0:09:57.001 --> 0:10:00.081 it's that beauty of working in an industry of something 0:10:00.161 --> 0:10:02.361 that you love so deeply. It probably doesn't feel quite 0:10:02.401 --> 0:10:04.641 as hard work sometimes. I'm sure it does sometimes. 0:10:04.761 --> 0:10:07.641 Yeah, absolutely, it's a really good point actually, And if 0:10:07.641 --> 0:10:11.761 you have the passion, you can work hard and do 0:10:11.921 --> 0:10:14.601 things that you totally want to do because it's really 0:10:14.601 --> 0:10:18.321 really hard, whether physically or mentally or whatever. You'll get 0:10:18.441 --> 0:10:20.721 knocked back to your confront obstacles and everything like that, 0:10:20.761 --> 0:10:23.001 but you don't mind it was that passions there. And 0:10:23.041 --> 0:10:26.321 it doesn't mean every single session or every single day 0:10:27.041 --> 0:10:30.321 is a joy, it's not. That's sometimes where that passion 0:10:30.361 --> 0:10:33.001 shines through and you've got an objective. But also I 0:10:33.001 --> 0:10:35.081 guess at the end of it where that satisfaction comes 0:10:35.081 --> 0:10:37.521 from as well, because you know, you were really bloody 0:10:37.561 --> 0:10:40.321 hard and committed yourself and you got through those around 0:10:40.361 --> 0:10:43.761 those obstacles and you achieve whatever it is you've achieved. 0:10:43.841 --> 0:10:46.561 What about now though, in a sort of CEO business capacity, 0:10:46.921 --> 0:10:49.601 are there certain things that Rob does now in life 0:10:49.681 --> 0:10:51.121 just to make sure he gets through the week, Like 0:10:51.281 --> 0:10:53.161 you know, can I find you meditating in the morning, 0:10:53.201 --> 0:10:54.121 Like what's happening for you? 0:10:55.281 --> 0:10:58.161 I sleep were I go to bed earlier? Basically that's 0:10:58.201 --> 0:11:00.681 the thing. But I still enjoy something in the mornings. 0:11:00.761 --> 0:11:02.841 I still do a lot of open water swamps and 0:11:02.881 --> 0:11:05.041 things like that. So you know, something I really unders 0:11:05.081 --> 0:11:07.361 start doing again like sort of three or four years ago. 0:11:08.001 --> 0:11:11.441 But having those goals, it's a personal goal. It's personal challenge, 0:11:11.481 --> 0:11:13.761 whether it be you're selling an English channel or when 0:11:13.801 --> 0:11:16.121 I'm doing this year and next year. It's something which 0:11:16.161 --> 0:11:18.441 I set myself and a strategy answer to talk about 0:11:18.441 --> 0:11:21.041 Astralgia before I do a little strategy and plan around 0:11:21.321 --> 0:11:22.681 what I need to do and when I need to 0:11:22.761 --> 0:11:24.961 do with buy and so on. And it sounds like 0:11:25.001 --> 0:11:27.201 it's hard work, but that's sort of the passion there 0:11:27.361 --> 0:11:29.321 and I can park that in that box and I 0:11:29.361 --> 0:11:31.441 have my work passion and other things that I like 0:11:31.521 --> 0:11:34.121 doing as well. I find that quite invigorating to me, 0:11:34.121 --> 0:11:35.281 howle to do different things. 0:11:36.361 --> 0:11:39.001 So after your professional swimming career, you moved to the UK. 0:11:39.481 --> 0:11:40.841 Can I as what prompted that move. 0:11:41.081 --> 0:11:43.281 I run a sports marketing company here in Australia, head in 0:11:43.321 --> 0:11:45.521 Melbourne for a number of years sinceeen ninety five, so 0:11:45.881 --> 0:11:47.801 got to two thousand and eight, had a young family. 0:11:48.201 --> 0:11:51.481 London had won the IT for the twenty twelve Olympics 0:11:51.481 --> 0:11:54.361 a couple of years before. We started thinking about expanding 0:11:54.361 --> 0:11:56.401 the business into the UK and from the area to 0:11:56.481 --> 0:11:59.401 Europe and going to other sports like stockolp, football and 0:11:59.481 --> 0:12:02.361 player management things like that. We're already very strong in 0:12:02.521 --> 0:12:05.641 talent management in the Olympic area in Australia as well 0:12:05.681 --> 0:12:07.601 as AFL in a little bit of cricket as well, 0:12:07.681 --> 0:12:10.201 So it was a natural sort of progression if you'd 0:12:10.281 --> 0:12:12.561 like to think about going over seas and London seemed 0:12:12.561 --> 0:12:14.401 a perfect place to do it. So that was the 0:12:14.401 --> 0:12:16.721 reason for the move with the young family packed up 0:12:16.761 --> 0:12:18.561 the house and moved over in two thousand and eight. 0:12:18.841 --> 0:12:21.681 The bee of brave is bold. Now I des grow 0:12:21.801 --> 0:12:25.121 bold as that moment you get that feeling where you're like, oh, 0:12:25.161 --> 0:12:26.521 I don't know if I want to do that, or 0:12:26.561 --> 0:12:28.321 an idea gets putformd and you get some sort of 0:12:28.321 --> 0:12:30.361 physical resistance to it and you think, do you know what, 0:12:30.401 --> 0:12:32.601 that's the thing I have to do. So I was 0:12:32.641 --> 0:12:35.801 wondering when I read about you swimming the English Channel, 0:12:36.241 --> 0:12:38.281 was that one of those bold moments in your life 0:12:38.401 --> 0:12:40.721 where you decided I had to do this Because it 0:12:40.761 --> 0:12:43.121 was the ten hours plus I think in the water 0:12:43.441 --> 0:12:45.241 a bit of a crazy thing. So was that one 0:12:45.281 --> 0:12:46.161 of those moments? 0:12:46.401 --> 0:12:48.601 Yeah, it was probably. As you said, crazy is probably 0:12:48.721 --> 0:12:51.081 a better word than bold. I think that's from across 0:12:51.161 --> 0:12:53.521 the rip in Melbourne at the interest to port Field 0:12:53.521 --> 0:12:56.281 Bay with some mates. It's only about five kilometers, but 0:12:56.401 --> 0:12:58.641 it's the mind games because you think about sharps and 0:12:58.641 --> 0:13:01.081 all those sorts of things. I've done that mainbly six 0:13:01.121 --> 0:13:04.281 months before iust on my channel and I really enjoyed it. 0:13:04.401 --> 0:13:06.001 I don't know why. It was just something about being 0:13:06.001 --> 0:13:07.921 out there and watching the waves sort of coming in 0:13:08.001 --> 0:13:10.481 and being with my apes as well, and not that 0:13:10.521 --> 0:13:12.761 I was necessarily looking for a change like that, but 0:13:12.881 --> 0:13:15.081 fished that that was good fun. There's something took an 0:13:15.121 --> 0:13:16.601 hour or so a couple of hours that it was 0:13:16.641 --> 0:13:18.721 and that was good fun. And I started and I 0:13:18.761 --> 0:13:20.641 knew I was heading back to the UK. I was 0:13:21.081 --> 0:13:22.801 here for a Christmas break and I was tending back 0:13:22.801 --> 0:13:24.961 to the UK, and I said to my mate, I 0:13:25.041 --> 0:13:27.241 might never look into you need to do the swimming 0:13:27.241 --> 0:13:30.481 English Channel and he said, you're crazy, And there's their 0:13:30.521 --> 0:13:32.841 word again, and so yeah, probably to look at it. 0:13:32.881 --> 0:13:35.401 And as it turned out, there was opening an opportunity 0:13:35.401 --> 0:13:37.801 to swim in August of that year, so I thought 0:13:38.201 --> 0:13:40.201 why not. It was only after I signed up and 0:13:40.321 --> 0:13:42.881 paid my deposit then, But then I probably looked into 0:13:42.921 --> 0:13:44.681 the sort of the preparation I needed to do and 0:13:44.721 --> 0:13:47.041 I thought, oh, got a bit of work to do here, 0:13:47.201 --> 0:13:49.161 need to get myself hit. A lot of our training 0:13:49.201 --> 0:13:51.521 was by myself swinging in Scotland, so swimming at the 0:13:51.561 --> 0:13:55.841 locks in Scotland which were pretty cold, so getting that resilience. 0:13:55.881 --> 0:13:58.201 We talked about just jumping in there on my own 0:13:58.441 --> 0:14:00.801 pretty much every day for three or four months, and 0:14:00.841 --> 0:14:03.121 as well as training at the pool, and it was 0:14:03.241 --> 0:14:06.081 pretty therapeutic, So don't we forget about things and dramas 0:14:06.121 --> 0:14:08.401 and all sorts of stuff. And then managed to get 0:14:08.401 --> 0:14:09.201 across the channel. 0:14:09.401 --> 0:14:12.041 Yeah, I mean, obviously mind blowing to someone like me. 0:14:12.121 --> 0:14:13.761 You can really sim for avery short period of time, 0:14:13.761 --> 0:14:17.201 but ten hours in the water physically obviously very grueling. 0:14:17.281 --> 0:14:19.521 But the mental game, did you have moments and you're 0:14:19.521 --> 0:14:21.841 swimming in that we think? I don't think so, or 0:14:21.881 --> 0:14:23.481 does it not happen to a professional athlete? 0:14:23.801 --> 0:14:26.401 It must happened to me that swim. It didn't happen. 0:14:26.521 --> 0:14:28.881 I only ever set out to do one ocean swim, 0:14:28.881 --> 0:14:31.921 which was this one. I've now done quite a lot 0:14:31.961 --> 0:14:34.001 more and some are a bit scarier than that. But 0:14:34.041 --> 0:14:36.321 the English Channel one was great fun. I had three 0:14:36.441 --> 0:14:38.481 or four really good mates on the boat, my brother 0:14:38.521 --> 0:14:41.801 in law being one of them, and professional marathon swimming 0:14:42.081 --> 0:14:44.961 coach Slash Nutritions to play the key role and so on. 0:14:45.081 --> 0:14:47.721 So I felt like I hadn't left any stone until 0:14:48.201 --> 0:14:50.361 one of the great joys about swimming the channel. It's 0:14:50.401 --> 0:14:52.841 because the water is cold. The initial advice was, you know, 0:14:52.881 --> 0:14:55.361 don't lose any weight, better off putting weight on. So 0:14:55.521 --> 0:14:57.281 that was music to I. ISS like, don't need to 0:14:57.281 --> 0:14:59.961 worry about what I or anything like that. So those 0:15:00.001 --> 0:15:01.841 three or four months I trained hard, but I was 0:15:01.841 --> 0:15:03.681 over a week pretty heartily as well. 0:15:03.761 --> 0:15:05.961 So yeah, a lot of fun to I mean, obviously 0:15:05.961 --> 0:15:08.001 everyone's funds different, but it's good to see that that's 0:15:08.681 --> 0:15:11.001 that came through. As we established before, once you're a 0:15:11.001 --> 0:15:13.481 professional swimming career ended, you launch straight into a very 0:15:13.481 --> 0:15:16.961 successful business career, establishing the management company a League Sports. 0:15:17.241 --> 0:15:19.961 You're also general manager of the London Raw and was 0:15:20.001 --> 0:15:24.041 involved across sports medias and many areas. So transitioning from 0:15:24.201 --> 0:15:27.481 playing sport to leading in this space. How did being 0:15:27.521 --> 0:15:30.081 an athlete shape the way you approach business? 0:15:30.441 --> 0:15:32.961 You played a massive part. First of all. Whilst I 0:15:33.001 --> 0:15:35.561 started my own business simply because I couldn't get a 0:15:35.601 --> 0:15:37.921 job in sports marketing, I sat at Adam worked at 0:15:37.921 --> 0:15:39.561 Australia post for a few years. That was my first 0:15:39.681 --> 0:15:41.361 job and I was also likely to be given a 0:15:41.441 --> 0:15:43.201 job there, and I was managing a post office in 0:15:43.241 --> 0:15:47.961 Melbourne doing my Masters and I completely my MBA and 0:15:48.521 --> 0:15:51.241 it was around that when Sydney won the Olympic bid 0:15:51.441 --> 0:15:53.721 nineteen monety three I started thinking about it, but it 0:15:53.761 --> 0:15:55.761 was another twelve months before I thought I only give 0:15:55.801 --> 0:15:58.241 this a go. I applied for various jobs at sports 0:15:58.241 --> 0:16:01.161 marketing companies and those kind of explained as advance as 0:16:01.201 --> 0:16:03.801 they are probably now. But I couldn't get a job. 0:16:03.841 --> 0:16:05.441 So I thought I'd better there's song go out of 0:16:05.481 --> 0:16:08.121 my own. No one really knows Olympic athletes like I do. 0:16:08.281 --> 0:16:10.281 I'll just see what happens. I quit my job at 0:16:10.321 --> 0:16:13.681 Australia Post and just started working from my front bedroom 0:16:13.721 --> 0:16:16.201 of my home in Collingwood. And about six months later 0:16:16.281 --> 0:16:19.321 I met up with Craig Kelly, Collingwood footballer and we've 0:16:19.361 --> 0:16:21.281 known each other previously. We hadn't seen each other for 0:16:21.321 --> 0:16:23.361 a few years, but we started talking together and he 0:16:23.481 --> 0:16:28.041 just started his company in AFL player management representation and 0:16:28.201 --> 0:16:30.441 so within about three or four months re mated aetition, 0:16:30.521 --> 0:16:32.321 all let's join up, and that's when we formed. I 0:16:32.401 --> 0:16:35.241 read sports properties and went from there. But I think 0:16:35.241 --> 0:16:38.001 the skills that we both learned a footballer for Craig 0:16:38.041 --> 0:16:41.881 and there's swam those skills I mentioned before, the time management, 0:16:41.921 --> 0:16:45.001 the goal setting, the team were strategizing, building a good 0:16:45.001 --> 0:16:47.201 team around you, and all those sorts of things where 0:16:47.281 --> 0:16:49.801 those skills I've had as an athlete were really critical 0:16:49.841 --> 0:16:51.921 in terms of starting the business and then building it 0:16:51.961 --> 0:16:53.401 into the success that it became. 0:16:54.001 --> 0:16:55.721 I love this, you know, every time I speak to 0:16:55.761 --> 0:16:57.761 Eman and sport, I'm always this big smile on my 0:16:57.801 --> 0:17:00.881 face thinking so many lessons in sport that just need 0:17:00.921 --> 0:17:03.161 to be translated to business because it just worked all 0:17:03.161 --> 0:17:05.281 the time. It's around team work, but also around a 0:17:05.321 --> 0:17:08.041