1 00:00:05,881 --> 00:00:13,481 Speaker 1: Apoche Production. Welcome to another episode of Brave Always the 2 00:00:13,521 --> 00:00:16,841 Speaker 1: CEO series. This series, we launch into the new world 3 00:00:17,001 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 1: of brave leadership. 4 00:00:18,601 --> 00:00:20,721 Speaker 2: Happy people create happy businesses. 5 00:00:20,561 --> 00:00:24,241 Speaker 1: True emotionally intelligent leadership. I picked up vomit once on 6 00:00:24,241 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 1: our about our fourth flight, and everybody thought, well, if 7 00:00:26,641 --> 00:00:28,161 Speaker 1: it's good enough for him, I can do it. 8 00:00:28,201 --> 00:00:28,401 Speaker 2: Now. 9 00:00:28,481 --> 00:00:31,601 Speaker 1: We will be joined by culture and leadership experts and 10 00:00:31,641 --> 00:00:35,481 Speaker 1: some superstar CEOs who will courageously tell us the truth 11 00:00:35,521 --> 00:00:38,921 Speaker 1: behind their brave leadership journeys. Today is a very special 12 00:00:39,001 --> 00:00:42,081 Speaker 1: day for me here because this is my first interview 13 00:00:42,161 --> 00:00:44,761 Speaker 1: with my first ever Olympian. But more than that, this 14 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:47,601 Speaker 1: man is a legend when it comes to swimming. Respected 15 00:00:47,601 --> 00:00:51,480 Speaker 1: across the sports business and swimming communities for almost thirty years. 16 00:00:51,881 --> 00:00:55,201 Speaker 1: An Olympian who represented Australia at both the eighty four 17 00:00:55,321 --> 00:00:58,121 Speaker 1: and eighty eight Olympics as well as the eighty two, 18 00:00:58,321 --> 00:01:02,161 Speaker 1: eighty six and nineteen ninety conworph Games. In twenty twenty two, 19 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:06,201 Speaker 1: he became the first Australian Olympic middles to successfully swim 20 00:01:06,241 --> 00:01:09,721 Speaker 1: the English Channel. Rows is a recently machine from the UK. 21 00:01:10,081 --> 00:01:12,481 Speaker 1: Rob is now the CEO for Swimming Australia. And the 22 00:01:12,481 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: incredible success of our twenty twenty four swimming team in 23 00:01:15,241 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 1: Paris is a credit to the passion that you have 24 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:19,401 Speaker 1: for this sport. And welcome to. 25 00:01:19,401 --> 00:01:22,001 Speaker 2: The podcast, Rob, Thank you amm that great to be here. 26 00:01:22,081 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: I think the list of achievements that I was reading 27 00:01:24,081 --> 00:01:26,481 Speaker 1: about you could take the entire podcast, But as you know, 28 00:01:26,521 --> 00:01:31,361 Speaker 1: we're on here talking about everything brave, which is bold, resilient, authentic, 29 00:01:31,481 --> 00:01:35,321 Speaker 1: vulnerable and empathy. And for me, what's super important for 30 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:37,121 Speaker 1: people to understand is that you don't get to the 31 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:40,521 Speaker 1: level of success that you've experienced without having to work 32 00:01:40,521 --> 00:01:42,881 Speaker 1: through all of those layers. Casting our mind back to 33 00:01:42,881 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 1: the beginning very quickly. I know you were born in 34 00:01:45,041 --> 00:01:48,561 Speaker 1: Melbourne and to what is considered swimming Royalty, with your dad, 35 00:01:48,601 --> 00:01:51,801 Speaker 1: Tony Woodhouse and your sister Susie both a big part 36 00:01:51,841 --> 00:01:54,601 Speaker 1: of the swimming culture in Australia. I wanted to ask 37 00:01:54,641 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: you straight up growing up, was there ever an option 38 00:01:57,281 --> 00:01:58,201 Speaker 1: not to be in swimming. 39 00:01:58,401 --> 00:02:00,561 Speaker 2: That's a good question. I think it's an Australian way 40 00:02:00,601 --> 00:02:03,601 Speaker 2: of life, isn't It certainly wasn't exclusively to our family. 41 00:02:04,721 --> 00:02:07,761 Speaker 2: My parents did meet at a swimming club. My dad, 42 00:02:07,881 --> 00:02:10,481 Speaker 2: Tony was involved with the PORTSI Surf Life Saving Club, 43 00:02:10,481 --> 00:02:12,441 Speaker 2: but that now and half out of Melbourne. Yeah, both 44 00:02:12,481 --> 00:02:15,001 Speaker 2: swimming was a part of their life. Who said, naturally 45 00:02:15,041 --> 00:02:18,201 Speaker 2: became a part of our sel of five kids. We're 46 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 2: all thrown into the pool and take it to swimming lift. 47 00:02:20,641 --> 00:02:23,001 Speaker 2: I guess we took to it very well and enjoyed it. 48 00:02:23,281 --> 00:02:25,881 Speaker 2: From their progressed to swimming club level and swimming for 49 00:02:25,921 --> 00:02:28,321 Speaker 2: the school, and then then club and state and then 50 00:02:29,201 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 2: from assistants in I international art. So it was quite 51 00:02:32,281 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 2: a journey. But no, I suppose possibly we didn't have 52 00:02:34,841 --> 00:02:36,201 Speaker 2: any choice, but there was good. 53 00:02:36,881 --> 00:02:39,281 Speaker 1: Yeah, sometimes you meet people and their parents do this 54 00:02:39,321 --> 00:02:41,601 Speaker 1: one particular thing and then the kids don't really want to, 55 00:02:41,721 --> 00:02:44,001 Speaker 1: but it's sort of kind of expected. I wasn't sure 56 00:02:44,041 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: if that was kind of the way it was as 57 00:02:45,841 --> 00:02:49,081 Speaker 1: a young man. When do you sort of first recall feeling, 58 00:02:49,161 --> 00:02:51,881 Speaker 1: I guess any self doubt about swimming, and as you 59 00:02:51,881 --> 00:02:54,561 Speaker 1: got into your professional swimming career, like did your dad 60 00:02:54,561 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 1: and part some advice to you and how to work 61 00:02:56,281 --> 00:02:58,361 Speaker 1: through that or was there another key mentor or does 62 00:02:58,401 --> 00:03:01,081 Speaker 1: self doubt never come up and you were just going 63 00:03:01,121 --> 00:03:01,921 Speaker 1: home from the get go? 64 00:03:02,881 --> 00:03:05,241 Speaker 2: I think I decried my character as going I think 65 00:03:05,401 --> 00:03:07,961 Speaker 2: is probably self doubt. It's probably always been there and 66 00:03:08,081 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 2: still is in various areas and dated base decision making. 67 00:03:11,641 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 2: So it was probably once I got to that international 68 00:03:14,201 --> 00:03:16,281 Speaker 2: level that, yeah, selped doubt probably is the last way 69 00:03:16,321 --> 00:03:18,161 Speaker 2: to describe it, because you do doubt and then you've 70 00:03:18,161 --> 00:03:21,121 Speaker 2: got the ability to win a soor to execute the 71 00:03:21,161 --> 00:03:22,161 Speaker 2: perfect ways and so on. 72 00:03:22,321 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: I mean, such a young age, how did you talk 73 00:03:24,201 --> 00:03:24,841 Speaker 1: yourself through that? 74 00:03:25,041 --> 00:03:28,161 Speaker 2: Probably a combination and different things because been on the 75 00:03:28,201 --> 00:03:30,881 Speaker 2: Australia team for a long time was ten years in all, 76 00:03:31,001 --> 00:03:33,761 Speaker 2: and I'm sure there were periods of self doubt throughout 77 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,401 Speaker 2: the time. It would have been mostly talking through with 78 00:03:36,441 --> 00:03:39,481 Speaker 2: my coach or coaches at the time, possibly family members, 79 00:03:39,481 --> 00:03:42,841 Speaker 2: particularly my sister Susie. My dad was always a role 80 00:03:42,881 --> 00:03:44,801 Speaker 2: model to me and a hero to me and still is, 81 00:03:44,841 --> 00:03:47,441 Speaker 2: and so you know, having conversations with him, I suppose, 82 00:03:47,481 --> 00:03:50,201 Speaker 2: but mostly coaches, I suppose when I'm specific to swimming. 83 00:03:50,441 --> 00:03:52,681 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you were only eighteen, if I'm right, when 84 00:03:52,721 --> 00:03:54,121 Speaker 1: you competed in your first Olympics. 85 00:03:54,201 --> 00:03:55,361 Speaker 2: Is it grit? Yeah, gruc. 86 00:03:55,721 --> 00:03:57,681 Speaker 1: How really did you feel to take on something of 87 00:03:57,681 --> 00:04:00,401 Speaker 1: that scale? What lessons do you think you learned at 88 00:04:00,401 --> 00:04:02,841 Speaker 1: that point when you launched until Olympic Sis such a 89 00:04:02,881 --> 00:04:05,481 Speaker 1: young age that you now feel have shaped the rest 90 00:04:05,481 --> 00:04:06,201 Speaker 1: of your life. 91 00:04:06,561 --> 00:04:08,561 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good question. At the time, I certainly 92 00:04:08,561 --> 00:04:10,521 Speaker 2: felt I was ready, and that's being young was an 93 00:04:10,521 --> 00:04:13,481 Speaker 2: advantage because you didn't really think too much about what 94 00:04:13,561 --> 00:04:15,361 Speaker 2: it all meant and what a big deal it was. 95 00:04:15,481 --> 00:04:17,561 Speaker 2: I started thinking about the Olympics probably when I was 96 00:04:17,561 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 2: about ten or eleven years of age, but it never 97 00:04:19,481 --> 00:04:21,841 Speaker 2: really dominated my thoughts or I was just a kid 98 00:04:21,921 --> 00:04:24,281 Speaker 2: having fun swimming and being with my mates, and I 99 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 2: had a good capacity to work hard and set goals 100 00:04:26,801 --> 00:04:29,161 Speaker 2: and things like that, and they're the things that probably 101 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:33,001 Speaker 2: carried me through to representing Australia, but also through to 102 00:04:33,201 --> 00:04:34,921 Speaker 2: everything else I've done in the sense, you know, that 103 00:04:34,961 --> 00:04:38,281 Speaker 2: ability to set goals, to work with the team, to 104 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:40,801 Speaker 2: manage my time, all those sort of skills that are 105 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:44,001 Speaker 2: key to business, key to everything else in particularly sport. 106 00:04:44,281 --> 00:04:46,001 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true. I think that's one of the most 107 00:04:46,041 --> 00:04:48,241 Speaker 1: beautiful things about sport for children, because I don't think 108 00:04:48,281 --> 00:04:50,561 Speaker 1: we normally set goals very well, and whereas I think 109 00:04:50,601 --> 00:04:52,121 Speaker 1: sport kind of forced you to do it so I 110 00:04:52,121 --> 00:04:54,401 Speaker 1: think that's a very valuable lesson that people learn from 111 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:57,121 Speaker 1: that age. Sometimes on the outside and it could be wrong. 112 00:04:57,401 --> 00:05:00,961 Speaker 1: It appears that professional athletes can sometimes be invaluable, right, 113 00:05:01,201 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: even though we know that's not true of humans. I'm 114 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:07,521 Speaker 1: not sure how big being vulnerable was particularly pay pats 115 00:05:07,521 --> 00:05:10,281 Speaker 1: at that period. So growing up, what was your view 116 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: on being vulnerable and talking about your struggles. Was that celebrated? 117 00:05:14,001 --> 00:05:15,801 Speaker 1: Was it even encouraged? Was it and you just don't 118 00:05:15,801 --> 00:05:17,681 Speaker 1: talk about it? Go have a cry and at the 119 00:05:17,721 --> 00:05:20,161 Speaker 1: back when it doesn't go well, we did vulnerability sit 120 00:05:20,241 --> 00:05:20,641 Speaker 1: fore then. 121 00:05:21,201 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's changed a lot. Vulnerability back then was probably 122 00:05:24,481 --> 00:05:27,281 Speaker 2: more in that category of for goheid and the call 123 00:05:27,481 --> 00:05:29,681 Speaker 2: somewhere and not talk about it. But like I said, 124 00:05:29,681 --> 00:05:32,361 Speaker 2: that ability to earn a confidence to talk with some 125 00:05:32,401 --> 00:05:35,481 Speaker 2: people that I trusted, like my coaches in particular, that 126 00:05:35,601 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 2: was really really important. When I was swimming. It was 127 00:05:38,161 --> 00:05:41,161 Speaker 2: just starting to creep into the area of sports psychology 128 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 2: even back then. It probably passed my career through into 129 00:05:43,761 --> 00:05:47,561 Speaker 2: the ninety using a sports psychologist. It's all psychologists seen 130 00:05:47,601 --> 00:05:49,921 Speaker 2: by someone it's a bit of a weakness, it's something 131 00:05:49,921 --> 00:05:51,881 Speaker 2: wrong with you and you're not tough enough sort of thing, 132 00:05:51,921 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 2: and whereas now it's absolutely accepted that that's going to 133 00:05:54,641 --> 00:05:57,041 Speaker 2: be nouncid performance without a doubt, if you've got the 134 00:05:57,161 --> 00:05:59,361 Speaker 2: right mindset and things like that. I suppose there was 135 00:05:59,361 --> 00:06:01,801 Speaker 2: a little bit of a stigma about any sort of vulnerability, 136 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:04,681 Speaker 2: and particularly amongst young men and boys you wanted to 137 00:06:04,761 --> 00:06:06,721 Speaker 2: be look like you're tough and you've had it all 138 00:06:06,801 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 2: under control. 139 00:06:07,721 --> 00:06:10,521 Speaker 1: Was there a particular moment where you sort of felt 140 00:06:10,601 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 1: like you're most exposed, like, oh God, I don't know. 141 00:06:13,281 --> 00:06:15,441 Speaker 2: If I can do this. Probably moments of for why 142 00:06:15,481 --> 00:06:18,241 Speaker 2: I perceived to be failure. If I didn't perform as 143 00:06:18,241 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 2: well as I expected, I felt like I'd let myself down, 144 00:06:21,801 --> 00:06:24,481 Speaker 2: let everyone else down. And you know, it's not until 145 00:06:24,961 --> 00:06:27,601 Speaker 2: much later on that you realize that you've let no 146 00:06:27,641 --> 00:06:30,121 Speaker 2: one doubt at all, that everyone's incredibly proud of you, 147 00:06:30,201 --> 00:06:32,601 Speaker 2: and in fact, as an individual, you're more than likely 148 00:06:32,641 --> 00:06:35,281 Speaker 2: you've done the absolute best you possibly could. That doesn't 149 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:40,041 Speaker 2: necessarily mean having your ultimate performance on the day. That 150 00:06:40,361 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 2: you've done the best you could in the preparation, the 151 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:45,241 Speaker 2: whole lead up to whatever championship it is, and you 152 00:06:45,281 --> 00:06:47,441 Speaker 2: just weren't good enough on the day or something might 153 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,801 Speaker 2: have happened, but at the time that's probably that disappointing 154 00:06:50,841 --> 00:06:54,561 Speaker 2: performance is probably that biggest moment, Maybe not embarrassment, but 155 00:06:54,761 --> 00:06:56,761 Speaker 2: feeling failure and that vulnerability. 156 00:06:57,041 --> 00:07:00,361 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a lot brand person I describe and enjoy 157 00:07:00,481 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: does being vulnerable as speaking from the messy middle, So 158 00:07:03,841 --> 00:07:05,481 Speaker 1: when you don't have all the answer, That's how I 159 00:07:05,561 --> 00:07:07,681 Speaker 1: like to describe it. So not always an easy thing 160 00:07:07,721 --> 00:07:09,961 Speaker 1: to do when you play a prominent public role as 161 00:07:09,961 --> 00:07:12,361 Speaker 1: you do. Now, how does vulnerability play it in your 162 00:07:12,401 --> 00:07:15,521 Speaker 1: life now? So are you more comfortable doing that or 163 00:07:15,561 --> 00:07:17,081 Speaker 1: is that still a bit of a struggle from those 164 00:07:17,121 --> 00:07:17,681 Speaker 1: early days. 165 00:07:17,881 --> 00:07:20,761 Speaker 2: Yeah, very much more comfortable. In fact, I think vulnerability 166 00:07:20,881 --> 00:07:24,841 Speaker 2: amongst leaders is a strength. People like to see vulnerability 167 00:07:24,881 --> 00:07:27,321 Speaker 2: amongst people they work with and people that lead them. 168 00:07:27,361 --> 00:07:30,441 Speaker 2: They're being normal, they're back honest. It's not a sign weakness. 169 00:07:30,641 --> 00:07:33,401 Speaker 2: I think the vulnerability. I don't deliberately show it, but 170 00:07:33,441 --> 00:07:36,081 Speaker 2: there are times when I will be vulnerable, being honest, 171 00:07:36,121 --> 00:07:38,121 Speaker 2: and I feel good about talking about that. I think 172 00:07:38,161 --> 00:07:40,041 Speaker 2: others can relate to that at times as well. 173 00:07:40,281 --> 00:07:43,641 Speaker 1: Absolutely, resilience, it's a big topic at the moment and 174 00:07:43,841 --> 00:07:45,721 Speaker 1: it's often been seen in the past, I think, is 175 00:07:45,761 --> 00:07:47,601 Speaker 1: that sort of tenacity that of like I just keep 176 00:07:47,641 --> 00:07:50,001 Speaker 1: digging and digging, Whereas I think we know that it's 177 00:07:50,081 --> 00:07:52,761 Speaker 1: much more multi faceted than that, and that we know 178 00:07:52,881 --> 00:07:54,881 Speaker 1: times are going to be tough, we can expect it 179 00:07:54,921 --> 00:07:57,001 Speaker 1: and we can kind of build the framework around as 180 00:07:57,001 --> 00:07:58,801 Speaker 1: it's going to get us through. Right as I think, 181 00:07:58,841 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: what is the big part about it? So I guess 182 00:08:00,601 --> 00:08:03,641 Speaker 1: the preparation to be resilient during your some in career. 183 00:08:03,961 --> 00:08:06,041 Speaker 1: Was it just you go in there with the plan 184 00:08:06,401 --> 00:08:08,281 Speaker 1: or is it more sort of you know, watch give 185 00:08:08,281 --> 00:08:10,281 Speaker 1: it my best shot. Or did you actually have strategies 186 00:08:10,281 --> 00:08:11,401 Speaker 1: to be resilient back then? 187 00:08:11,681 --> 00:08:14,521 Speaker 2: As certainly had strategies. And I guess resilience it wasn't 188 00:08:14,521 --> 00:08:16,921 Speaker 2: a key word back then, and you had to work hard. 189 00:08:16,921 --> 00:08:18,641 Speaker 2: I knew I had to put in the harveyard to 190 00:08:18,681 --> 00:08:21,481 Speaker 2: do the miles, have my preparation right from a nutritional 191 00:08:21,521 --> 00:08:23,521 Speaker 2: point of view, from in the gym, and all those 192 00:08:23,521 --> 00:08:25,921 Speaker 2: sorts of things that I guess resilience is are part 193 00:08:25,961 --> 00:08:28,481 Speaker 2: of all those scenes. On a day to day basis, 194 00:08:28,601 --> 00:08:30,721 Speaker 2: it's a matter of turning up to a degree and 195 00:08:30,801 --> 00:08:33,681 Speaker 2: just getting the job done without thinking too far ahead. 196 00:08:33,881 --> 00:08:35,801 Speaker 2: And I think a lot of athletes have that they 197 00:08:35,881 --> 00:08:38,801 Speaker 2: have their plan and they know they've got whatever the 198 00:08:38,841 --> 00:08:40,961 Speaker 2: period of time is ahead of their brilliant big games 199 00:08:41,001 --> 00:08:43,361 Speaker 2: or their world championship. I call it a four month 200 00:08:43,401 --> 00:08:46,561 Speaker 2: preparation from the previous season, and my plan it out 201 00:08:46,721 --> 00:08:48,321 Speaker 2: one week at a time, one day at a time, 202 00:08:48,321 --> 00:08:50,481 Speaker 2: where every one session or one step at a time, 203 00:08:50,761 --> 00:08:53,761 Speaker 2: that the resilience comes from getting that set done or 204 00:08:53,841 --> 00:08:56,561 Speaker 2: that workout done good or band it's done. It's ticking 205 00:08:56,561 --> 00:08:59,361 Speaker 2: a box and recovery and then thinking about the next line. 206 00:08:59,401 --> 00:09:02,281 Speaker 2: It's just one step at a time, but also thinking really, 207 00:09:02,361 --> 00:09:04,241 Speaker 2: just get through this day or get through this week 208 00:09:04,321 --> 00:09:06,761 Speaker 2: before you know, eight weeks in and you've been two 209 00:09:06,761 --> 00:09:09,361 Speaker 2: months ago, and all those sort of things. So I 210 00:09:09,401 --> 00:09:11,641 Speaker 2: think that's for me what resilience was about when I 211 00:09:11,681 --> 00:09:14,121 Speaker 2: was swimming, and business is a lot like that. We 212 00:09:14,161 --> 00:09:16,321 Speaker 2: all have plans, we have strategies and so on, but 213 00:09:16,321 --> 00:09:17,961 Speaker 2: at the end of the day, just like my sport, 214 00:09:18,041 --> 00:09:19,761 Speaker 2: you've got to enjoy it and have fun and all 215 00:09:19,761 --> 00:09:22,321 Speaker 2: those sort of things. So that sponsaneity comes into it 216 00:09:22,321 --> 00:09:25,081 Speaker 2: as well, and that's really really important both within the 217 00:09:25,121 --> 00:09:29,441 Speaker 2: sport for training perspective and competitions, perspective to enjoy process, 218 00:09:29,481 --> 00:09:32,241 Speaker 2: and so on. But particularly in that work environment, it's 219 00:09:32,281 --> 00:09:34,081 Speaker 2: got to be fun. You just go enjoy it. You've 220 00:09:34,081 --> 00:09:36,121 Speaker 2: got to work hard, but you and your team are 221 00:09:36,281 --> 00:09:38,281 Speaker 2: having a bit of funnel the way than what are 222 00:09:38,321 --> 00:09:38,761 Speaker 2: you doing it for. 223 00:09:39,041 --> 00:09:41,241 Speaker 1: I love think you said that because actually, if I 224 00:09:41,281 --> 00:09:43,801 Speaker 1: look at like all the elements of resilience and the utenacities, 225 00:09:43,801 --> 00:09:45,561 Speaker 1: one you talk about self care, which is what a 226 00:09:45,601 --> 00:09:47,681 Speaker 1: lot of athletes do pretty well right in terms of 227 00:09:47,681 --> 00:09:50,041 Speaker 1: looking after that, But you called out one that's really important, 228 00:09:50,081 --> 00:09:52,521 Speaker 1: which is passion, right, which is where the joy comes from. 229 00:09:52,761 --> 00:09:54,641 Speaker 1: How do you keep going if you're not enjoying it? 230 00:09:54,681 --> 00:09:57,001 Speaker 1: That's where I think people fall over. So I think 231 00:09:57,001 --> 00:10:00,081 Speaker 1: it's that beauty of working in an industry of something 232 00:10:00,161 --> 00:10:02,361 Speaker 1: that you love so deeply. It probably doesn't feel quite 233 00:10:02,401 --> 00:10:04,641 Speaker 1: as hard work sometimes. I'm sure it does sometimes. 234 00:10:04,761 --> 00:10:07,641 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, it's a really good point actually, And if 235 00:10:07,641 --> 00:10:11,761 Speaker 2: you have the passion, you can work hard and do 236 00:10:11,921 --> 00:10:14,601 Speaker 2: things that you totally want to do because it's really 237 00:10:14,601 --> 00:10:18,321 Speaker 2: really hard, whether physically or mentally or whatever. You'll get 238 00:10:18,441 --> 00:10:20,721 Speaker 2: knocked back to your confront obstacles and everything like that, 239 00:10:20,761 --> 00:10:23,001 Speaker 2: but you don't mind it was that passions there. And 240 00:10:23,041 --> 00:10:26,321 Speaker 2: it doesn't mean every single session or every single day 241 00:10:27,041 --> 00:10:30,321 Speaker 2: is a joy, it's not. That's sometimes where that passion 242 00:10:30,361 --> 00:10:33,001 Speaker 2: shines through and you've got an objective. But also I 243 00:10:33,001 --> 00:10:35,081 Speaker 2: guess at the end of it where that satisfaction comes 244 00:10:35,081 --> 00:10:37,521 Speaker 2: from as well, because you know, you were really bloody 245 00:10:37,561 --> 00:10:40,321 Speaker 2: hard and committed yourself and you got through those around 246 00:10:40,361 --> 00:10:43,761 Speaker 2: those obstacles and you achieve whatever it is you've achieved. 247 00:10:43,841 --> 00:10:46,561 Speaker 1: What about now though, in a sort of CEO business capacity, 248 00:10:46,921 --> 00:10:49,601 Speaker 1: are there certain things that Rob does now in life 249 00:10:49,681 --> 00:10:51,121 Speaker 1: just to make sure he gets through the week, Like 250 00:10:51,281 --> 00:10:53,161 Speaker 1: you know, can I find you meditating in the morning, 251 00:10:53,201 --> 00:10:54,121 Speaker 1: Like what's happening for you? 252 00:10:55,281 --> 00:10:58,161 Speaker 2: I sleep were I go to bed earlier? Basically that's 253 00:10:58,201 --> 00:11:00,681 Speaker 2: the thing. But I still enjoy something in the mornings. 254 00:11:00,761 --> 00:11:02,841 Speaker 2: I still do a lot of open water swamps and 255 00:11:02,881 --> 00:11:05,041 Speaker 2: things like that. So you know, something I really unders 256 00:11:05,081 --> 00:11:07,361 Speaker 2: start doing again like sort of three or four years ago. 257 00:11:08,001 --> 00:11:11,441 Speaker 2: But having those goals, it's a personal goal. It's personal challenge, 258 00:11:11,481 --> 00:11:13,761 Speaker 2: whether it be you're selling an English channel or when 259 00:11:13,801 --> 00:11:16,121 Speaker 2: I'm doing this year and next year. It's something which 260 00:11:16,161 --> 00:11:18,441 Speaker 2: I set myself and a strategy answer to talk about 261 00:11:18,441 --> 00:11:21,041 Speaker 2: Astralgia before I do a little strategy and plan around 262 00:11:21,321 --> 00:11:22,681 Speaker 2: what I need to do and when I need to 263 00:11:22,761 --> 00:11:24,961 Speaker 2: do with buy and so on. And it sounds like 264 00:11:25,001 --> 00:11:27,201 Speaker 2: it's hard work, but that's sort of the passion there 265 00:11:27,361 --> 00:11:29,321 Speaker 2: and I can park that in that box and I 266 00:11:29,361 --> 00:11:31,441 Speaker 2: have my work passion and other things that I like 267 00:11:31,521 --> 00:11:34,121 Speaker 2: doing as well. I find that quite invigorating to me, 268 00:11:34,121 --> 00:11:35,281 Speaker 2: howle to do different things. 269 00:11:36,361 --> 00:11:39,001 Speaker 1: So after your professional swimming career, you moved to the UK. 270 00:11:39,481 --> 00:11:40,841 Speaker 1: Can I as what prompted that move. 271 00:11:41,081 --> 00:11:43,281 Speaker 2: I run a sports marketing company here in Australia, head in 272 00:11:43,321 --> 00:11:45,521 Speaker 2: Melbourne for a number of years sinceeen ninety five, so 273 00:11:45,881 --> 00:11:47,801 Speaker 2: got to two thousand and eight, had a young family. 274 00:11:48,201 --> 00:11:51,481 Speaker 2: London had won the IT for the twenty twelve Olympics 275 00:11:51,481 --> 00:11:54,361 Speaker 2: a couple of years before. We started thinking about expanding 276 00:11:54,361 --> 00:11:56,401 Speaker 2: the business into the UK and from the area to 277 00:11:56,481 --> 00:11:59,401 Speaker 2: Europe and going to other sports like stockolp, football and 278 00:11:59,481 --> 00:12:02,361 Speaker 2: player management things like that. We're already very strong in 279 00:12:02,521 --> 00:12:05,641 Speaker 2: talent management in the Olympic area in Australia as well 280 00:12:05,681 --> 00:12:07,601 Speaker 2: as AFL in a little bit of cricket as well, 281 00:12:07,681 --> 00:12:10,201 Speaker 2: So it was a natural sort of progression if you'd 282 00:12:10,281 --> 00:12:12,561 Speaker 2: like to think about going over seas and London seemed 283 00:12:12,561 --> 00:12:14,401 Speaker 2: a perfect place to do it. So that was the 284 00:12:14,401 --> 00:12:16,721 Speaker 2: reason for the move with the young family packed up 285 00:12:16,761 --> 00:12:18,561 Speaker 2: the house and moved over in two thousand and eight. 286 00:12:18,841 --> 00:12:21,681 Speaker 1: The bee of brave is bold. Now I des grow 287 00:12:21,801 --> 00:12:25,121 Speaker 1: bold as that moment you get that feeling where you're like, oh, 288 00:12:25,161 --> 00:12:26,521 Speaker 1: I don't know if I want to do that, or 289 00:12:26,561 --> 00:12:28,321 Speaker 1: an idea gets putformd and you get some sort of 290 00:12:28,321 --> 00:12:30,361 Speaker 1: physical resistance to it and you think, do you know what, 291 00:12:30,401 --> 00:12:32,601 Speaker 1: that's the thing I have to do. So I was 292 00:12:32,641 --> 00:12:35,801 Speaker 1: wondering when I read about you swimming the English Channel, 293 00:12:36,241 --> 00:12:38,281 Speaker 1: was that one of those bold moments in your life 294 00:12:38,401 --> 00:12:40,721 Speaker 1: where you decided I had to do this Because it 295 00:12:40,761 --> 00:12:43,121 Speaker 1: was the ten hours plus I think in the water 296 00:12:43,441 --> 00:12:45,241 Speaker 1: a bit of a crazy thing. So was that one 297 00:12:45,281 --> 00:12:46,161 Speaker 1: of those moments? 298 00:12:46,401 --> 00:12:48,601 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was probably. As you said, crazy is probably 299 00:12:48,721 --> 00:12:51,081 Speaker 2: a better word than bold. I think that's from across 300 00:12:51,161 --> 00:12:53,521 Speaker 2: the rip in Melbourne at the interest to port Field 301 00:12:53,521 --> 00:12:56,281 Speaker 2: Bay with some mates. It's only about five kilometers, but 302 00:12:56,401 --> 00:12:58,641 Speaker 2: it's the mind games because you think about sharps and 303 00:12:58,641 --> 00:13:01,081 Speaker 2: all those sorts of things. I've done that mainbly six 304 00:13:01,121 --> 00:13:04,281 Speaker 2: months before iust on my channel and I really enjoyed it. 305 00:13:04,401 --> 00:13:06,001 Speaker 2: I don't know why. It was just something about being 306 00:13:06,001 --> 00:13:07,921 Speaker 2: out there and watching the waves sort of coming in 307 00:13:08,001 --> 00:13:10,481 Speaker 2: and being with my apes as well, and not that 308 00:13:10,521 --> 00:13:12,761 Speaker 2: I was necessarily looking for a change like that, but 309 00:13:12,881 --> 00:13:15,081 Speaker 2: fished that that was good fun. There's something took an 310 00:13:15,121 --> 00:13:16,601 Speaker 2: hour or so a couple of hours that it was 311 00:13:16,641 --> 00:13:18,721 Speaker 2: and that was good fun. And I started and I 312 00:13:18,761 --> 00:13:20,641 Speaker 2: knew I was heading back to the UK. I was 313 00:13:21,081 --> 00:13:22,801 Speaker 2: here for a Christmas break and I was tending back 314 00:13:22,801 --> 00:13:24,961 Speaker 2: to the UK, and I said to my mate, I 315 00:13:25,041 --> 00:13:27,241 Speaker 2: might never look into you need to do the swimming 316 00:13:27,241 --> 00:13:30,481 Speaker 2: English Channel and he said, you're crazy, And there's their 317 00:13:30,521 --> 00:13:32,841 Speaker 2: word again, and so yeah, probably to look at it. 318 00:13:32,881 --> 00:13:35,401 Speaker 2: And as it turned out, there was opening an opportunity 319 00:13:35,401 --> 00:13:37,801 Speaker 2: to swim in August of that year, so I thought 320 00:13:38,201 --> 00:13:40,201 Speaker 2: why not. It was only after I signed up and 321 00:13:40,321 --> 00:13:42,881 Speaker 2: paid my deposit then, But then I probably looked into 322 00:13:42,921 --> 00:13:44,681 Speaker 2: the sort of the preparation I needed to do and 323 00:13:44,721 --> 00:13:47,041 Speaker 2: I thought, oh, got a bit of work to do here, 324 00:13:47,201 --> 00:13:49,161 Speaker 2: need to get myself hit. A lot of our training 325 00:13:49,201 --> 00:13:51,521 Speaker 2: was by myself swinging in Scotland, so swimming at the 326 00:13:51,561 --> 00:13:55,841 Speaker 2: locks in Scotland which were pretty cold, so getting that resilience. 327 00:13:55,881 --> 00:13:58,201 Speaker 2: We talked about just jumping in there on my own 328 00:13:58,441 --> 00:14:00,801 Speaker 2: pretty much every day for three or four months, and 329 00:14:00,841 --> 00:14:03,121 Speaker 2: as well as training at the pool, and it was 330 00:14:03,241 --> 00:14:06,081 Speaker 2: pretty therapeutic, So don't we forget about things and dramas 331 00:14:06,121 --> 00:14:08,401 Speaker 2: and all sorts of stuff. And then managed to get 332 00:14:08,401 --> 00:14:09,201 Speaker 2: across the channel. 333 00:14:09,401 --> 00:14:12,041 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, obviously mind blowing to someone like me. 334 00:14:12,121 --> 00:14:13,761 Speaker 1: You can really sim for avery short period of time, 335 00:14:13,761 --> 00:14:17,201 Speaker 1: but ten hours in the water physically obviously very grueling. 336 00:14:17,281 --> 00:14:19,521 Speaker 1: But the mental game, did you have moments and you're 337 00:14:19,521 --> 00:14:21,841 Speaker 1: swimming in that we think? I don't think so, or 338 00:14:21,881 --> 00:14:23,481 Speaker 1: does it not happen to a professional athlete? 339 00:14:23,801 --> 00:14:26,401 Speaker 2: It must happened to me that swim. It didn't happen. 340 00:14:26,521 --> 00:14:28,881 Speaker 2: I only ever set out to do one ocean swim, 341 00:14:28,881 --> 00:14:31,921 Speaker 2: which was this one. I've now done quite a lot 342 00:14:31,961 --> 00:14:34,001 Speaker 2: more and some are a bit scarier than that. But 343 00:14:34,041 --> 00:14:36,321 Speaker 2: the English Channel one was great fun. I had three 344 00:14:36,441 --> 00:14:38,481 Speaker 2: or four really good mates on the boat, my brother 345 00:14:38,521 --> 00:14:41,801 Speaker 2: in law being one of them, and professional marathon swimming 346 00:14:42,081 --> 00:14:44,961 Speaker 2: coach Slash Nutritions to play the key role and so on. 347 00:14:45,081 --> 00:14:47,721 Speaker 2: So I felt like I hadn't left any stone until 348 00:14:48,201 --> 00:14:50,361 Speaker 2: one of the great joys about swimming the channel. It's 349 00:14:50,401 --> 00:14:52,841 Speaker 2: because the water is cold. The initial advice was, you know, 350 00:14:52,881 --> 00:14:55,361 Speaker 2: don't lose any weight, better off putting weight on. So 351 00:14:55,521 --> 00:14:57,281 Speaker 2: that was music to I. ISS like, don't need to 352 00:14:57,281 --> 00:14:59,961 Speaker 2: worry about what I or anything like that. So those 353 00:15:00,001 --> 00:15:01,841 Speaker 2: three or four months I trained hard, but I was 354 00:15:01,841 --> 00:15:03,681 Speaker 2: over a week pretty heartily as well. 355 00:15:03,761 --> 00:15:05,961 Speaker 1: So yeah, a lot of fun to I mean, obviously 356 00:15:05,961 --> 00:15:08,001 Speaker 1: everyone's funds different, but it's good to see that that's 357 00:15:08,681 --> 00:15:11,001 Speaker 1: that came through. As we established before, once you're a 358 00:15:11,001 --> 00:15:13,481 Speaker 1: professional swimming career ended, you launch straight into a very 359 00:15:13,481 --> 00:15:16,961 Speaker 1: successful business career, establishing the management company a League Sports. 360 00:15:17,241 --> 00:15:19,961 Speaker 1: You're also general manager of the London Raw and was 361 00:15:20,001 --> 00:15:24,041 Speaker 1: involved across sports medias and many areas. So transitioning from 362 00:15:24,201 --> 00:15:27,481 Speaker 1: playing sport to leading in this space. How did being 363 00:15:27,521 --> 00:15:30,081 Speaker 1: an athlete shape the way you approach business? 364 00:15:30,441 --> 00:15:32,961 Speaker 2: You played a massive part. First of all. Whilst I 365 00:15:33,001 --> 00:15:35,561 Speaker 2: started my own business simply because I couldn't get a 366 00:15:35,601 --> 00:15:37,921 Speaker 2: job in sports marketing, I sat at Adam worked at 367 00:15:37,921 --> 00:15:39,561 Speaker 2: Australia post for a few years. That was my first 368 00:15:39,681 --> 00:15:41,361 Speaker 2: job and I was also likely to be given a 369 00:15:41,441 --> 00:15:43,201 Speaker 2: job there, and I was managing a post office in 370 00:15:43,241 --> 00:15:47,961 Speaker 2: Melbourne doing my Masters and I completely my MBA and 371 00:15:48,521 --> 00:15:51,241 Speaker 2: it was around that when Sydney won the Olympic bid 372 00:15:51,441 --> 00:15:53,721 Speaker 2: nineteen monety three I started thinking about it, but it 373 00:15:53,761 --> 00:15:55,761 Speaker 2: was another twelve months before I thought I only give 374 00:15:55,801 --> 00:15:58,241 Speaker 2: this a go. I applied for various jobs at sports 375 00:15:58,241 --> 00:16:01,161 Speaker 2: marketing companies and those kind of explained as advance as 376 00:16:01,201 --> 00:16:03,801 Speaker 2: they are probably now. But I couldn't get a job. 377 00:16:03,841 --> 00:16:05,441 Speaker 2: So I thought I'd better there's song go out of 378 00:16:05,481 --> 00:16:08,121 Speaker 2: my own. No one really knows Olympic athletes like I do. 379 00:16:08,281 --> 00:16:10,281 Speaker 2: I'll just see what happens. I quit my job at 380 00:16:10,321 --> 00:16:13,681 Speaker 2: Australia Post and just started working from my front bedroom 381 00:16:13,721 --> 00:16:16,201 Speaker 2: of my home in Collingwood. And about six months later 382 00:16:16,281 --> 00:16:19,321 Speaker 2: I met up with Craig Kelly, Collingwood footballer and we've 383 00:16:19,361 --> 00:16:21,281 Speaker 2: known each other previously. We hadn't seen each other for 384 00:16:21,321 --> 00:16:23,361 Speaker 2: a few years, but we started talking together and he 385 00:16:23,481 --> 00:16:28,041 Speaker 2: just started his company in AFL player management representation and 386 00:16:28,201 --> 00:16:30,441 Speaker 2: so within about three or four months re mated aetition, 387 00:16:30,521 --> 00:16:32,321 Speaker 2: all let's join up, and that's when we formed. I 388 00:16:32,401 --> 00:16:35,241 Speaker 2: read sports properties and went from there. But I think 389 00:16:35,241 --> 00:16:38,001 Speaker 2: the skills that we both learned a footballer for Craig 390 00:16:38,041 --> 00:16:41,881 Speaker 2: and there's swam those skills I mentioned before, the time management, 391 00:16:41,921 --> 00:16:45,001 Speaker 2: the goal setting, the team were strategizing, building a good 392 00:16:45,001 --> 00:16:47,201 Speaker 2: team around you, and all those sorts of things where 393 00:16:47,281 --> 00:16:49,801 Speaker 2: those skills I've had as an athlete were really critical 394 00:16:49,841 --> 00:16:51,921 Speaker 2: in terms of starting the business and then building it 395 00:16:51,961 --> 00:16:53,401 Speaker 2: into the success that it became. 396 00:16:54,001 --> 00:16:55,721 Speaker 1: I love this, you know, every time I speak to 397 00:16:55,761 --> 00:16:57,761 Speaker 1: Eman and sport, I'm always this big smile on my 398 00:16:57,801 --> 00:17:00,881 Speaker 1: face thinking so many lessons in sport that just need 399 00:17:00,921 --> 00:17:03,161 Speaker 1: to be translated to business because it just worked all 400 00:17:03,161 --> 00:17:05,281 Speaker 1: the time. It's around team work, but also around a 401 00:17:05,321 --> 00:17:08,041 Speaker 1: common united purpose. I always think that's just such a 402 00:17:08,241 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: key part. And at the companies I deal with that 403 00:17:10,521 --> 00:17:12,801 Speaker 1: they don't really know what they're all working towards, and 404 00:17:12,801 --> 00:17:15,281 Speaker 1: I think that shows right and how the company sort 405 00:17:15,281 --> 00:17:18,121 Speaker 1: of ends up. For yourself being in the public eye, 406 00:17:18,201 --> 00:17:20,281 Speaker 1: I mean, it always has its challenges, I think when 407 00:17:20,281 --> 00:17:23,120 Speaker 1: it comes to being authentic, because there's always a chance 408 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,321 Speaker 1: that you could get rejected or be judged if you 409 00:17:25,360 --> 00:17:28,360 Speaker 1: said whatever you're thinking. There's possibly a consequence or a 410 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,721 Speaker 1: career mail front page. Who knows looking back, how has 411 00:17:31,761 --> 00:17:35,120 Speaker 1: your willingness to be truly authentic changed? And do you 412 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:37,120 Speaker 1: still feel there are times where you can't be or 413 00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:38,041 Speaker 1: you'd need to hold back. 414 00:17:38,481 --> 00:17:42,801 Speaker 2: I think authenticity is crucial in any role, I guess 415 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,041 Speaker 2: moving into more leadership positions. In the role I'm in now, 416 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,961 Speaker 2: it is a leadership role, So that's authenticity. When I talk, 417 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 2: I'm representing sport. That's what was the organization and everyone, 418 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:56,321 Speaker 2: and that's as well as myself. When I'm running my 419 00:17:56,321 --> 00:17:58,521 Speaker 2: own sports marketing company, it's a little bit different. I'm 420 00:17:58,561 --> 00:18:01,441 Speaker 2: representing obviously my team and stuff there and the athletes, 421 00:18:01,481 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 2: but this is a bit of a different level. But 422 00:18:03,241 --> 00:18:05,801 Speaker 2: I think the authenticity is still really really important. But 423 00:18:05,801 --> 00:18:08,721 Speaker 2: it's about understanding who you're speaking on behalf of. It's 424 00:18:08,761 --> 00:18:11,360 Speaker 2: not just yourself. So you can still be authentic, but 425 00:18:11,521 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 2: understanding sort of the people you're representing with the words saying, 426 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:16,521 Speaker 2: all the actions that you're demonstrating. 427 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: I totally agree, but that would be challenging right at times. 428 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 1: It's a balance you could to constantly be aware of. 429 00:18:21,441 --> 00:18:23,360 Speaker 1: I can often have no filter and I don't need 430 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:25,041 Speaker 1: to worry so much because it's my own business, but 431 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:27,681 Speaker 1: I imagine that in that space it would be hard. 432 00:18:27,721 --> 00:18:30,081 Speaker 1: Sometimes if you disagree with something, you've got a way 433 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,400 Speaker 1: up very quickly. Can I really say that? What do 434 00:18:32,441 --> 00:18:34,161 Speaker 1: I need to take a more measured approach to it? 435 00:18:34,241 --> 00:18:37,481 Speaker 3: So yeah, absolutely, it's understanding what the pros and cons 436 00:18:37,481 --> 00:18:40,801 Speaker 3: are very quickly and making those decisions, and also accepting 437 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:42,561 Speaker 3: that you're going to be wrong from time to time 438 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:44,521 Speaker 3: with the decisions did you make, and there's nothing wrong 439 00:18:44,521 --> 00:18:46,521 Speaker 3: with that putting up your hand and say yeah, that 440 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:48,881 Speaker 3: was wrong, or just looking back and thinking and maybe 441 00:18:48,921 --> 00:18:49,761 Speaker 3: I shouldn't have said that. 442 00:18:49,801 --> 00:18:53,281 Speaker 2: It's trusting judgment and being confident enough to speak out 443 00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:55,241 Speaker 2: when you feel strongly enough about something if you don't 444 00:18:55,241 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 2: agree with something, to encourage as best as possible to 445 00:18:58,681 --> 00:19:00,680 Speaker 2: write wrongs in the sense of if people in your 446 00:19:00,721 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 2: team they want feedback good and bad, if it's constructive 447 00:19:04,120 --> 00:19:06,081 Speaker 2: and if it's communication in a good way. I think 448 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,360 Speaker 2: it's a fairly natural thing for me to do that. 449 00:19:08,521 --> 00:19:10,841 Speaker 2: But I certainly make mistakes. It's no doubt about that. 450 00:19:11,120 --> 00:19:12,360 Speaker 1: I think it's natural for you, if I think for 451 00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:14,360 Speaker 1: a lot of people it's not. It's actually quite hard 452 00:19:14,481 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 1: to know how to do that. And I mean you 453 00:19:16,561 --> 00:19:18,880 Speaker 1: talk about being able to own mistakes. Is that something 454 00:19:18,921 --> 00:19:20,881 Speaker 1: you feel you've got better at as time's gone by, 455 00:19:20,961 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: Particularly you know, being in such a high pressure environment 456 00:19:24,120 --> 00:19:26,961 Speaker 1: of performance when things do go wrong, do you feel 457 00:19:27,001 --> 00:19:28,201 Speaker 1: more comfortable in owning that? 458 00:19:28,521 --> 00:19:30,160 Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean no one likes to make a mistake, 459 00:19:30,241 --> 00:19:32,281 Speaker 2: do they, but feel more comfortable than owning it, but 460 00:19:32,281 --> 00:19:35,241 Speaker 2: also feeling more comfortable in not taking ownership when it 461 00:19:35,281 --> 00:19:37,160 Speaker 2: actually was at my mistake in the first place, and 462 00:19:37,201 --> 00:19:40,640 Speaker 2: that's possibly something I did previously. It's a responsibility to 463 00:19:40,801 --> 00:19:43,360 Speaker 2: sort of smooth the water, whereas now I'll assertmein we 464 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,321 Speaker 2: take ownership by all means, but if the faults or 465 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 2: the error lives elsewhere that I don't necessarily need to 466 00:19:49,241 --> 00:19:51,321 Speaker 2: take ownership of that. If it's within my day, we 467 00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:53,400 Speaker 2: need to work on how it doesn't happen again and 468 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:54,201 Speaker 2: how we can get better. 469 00:19:54,521 --> 00:19:57,041 Speaker 1: So taking on this new role this year, which is 470 00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 1: an amazing role A see're assuming Australia. What does that 471 00:19:59,721 --> 00:20:00,640 Speaker 1: mean to you personally? 472 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,201 Speaker 2: I guess it's an opportunity for me. It's not about 473 00:20:03,241 --> 00:20:05,641 Speaker 2: giving back and look, the support has given me so much. 474 00:20:05,681 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 2: I love the sport of swimming. I love everything about it, 475 00:20:07,921 --> 00:20:09,761 Speaker 2: from just going for a dip at the beach now 476 00:20:09,961 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 2: jump in the pool with some mates, to watching the 477 00:20:12,481 --> 00:20:15,721 Speaker 2: Olympic Games and the Paralympic Games, that they're all special 478 00:20:16,001 --> 00:20:18,440 Speaker 2: and I've got so many great mentories and great friendships 479 00:20:18,481 --> 00:20:21,321 Speaker 2: and someone out of the sport as well. In a sense, 480 00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:23,641 Speaker 2: there is that giving back to me. It's the opportunity 481 00:20:23,721 --> 00:20:27,120 Speaker 2: to contribute and to make the sport even better than 482 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,561 Speaker 2: it has been before, and certainly better it has been 483 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:31,961 Speaker 2: in recent years. I'm not sure how long it will 484 00:20:32,001 --> 00:20:34,321 Speaker 2: be CEO was to me in Australia. I feel quite 485 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,481 Speaker 2: young in this role, but I would like to make 486 00:20:36,521 --> 00:20:39,161 Speaker 2: sure that we're in a better financial position. We are 487 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,041 Speaker 2: providing more opportunities to a more diverse group of Australians. 488 00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:47,281 Speaker 2: We are encouraging and we're inspiring Australians to swim. There's 489 00:20:47,321 --> 00:20:49,041 Speaker 2: lots of things I want to do and I guess 490 00:20:49,041 --> 00:20:50,920 Speaker 2: that's what this role means to me, is it's the 491 00:20:50,961 --> 00:20:53,321 Speaker 2: opportunity to do that with a great team of people 492 00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 2: with me. 493 00:20:53,801 --> 00:20:56,001 Speaker 1: Oh, I mean, I think there's something more inspiring than 494 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,360 Speaker 1: having some of your background being able to do this role, 495 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:00,440 Speaker 1: Like I kin't of imagine. You know, that's something that 496 00:21:00,481 --> 00:21:02,681 Speaker 1: people would look up to and really values. I love that. 497 00:21:03,041 --> 00:21:06,561 Speaker 1: I define culture as behavior repeating, so it's how you 498 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:08,561 Speaker 1: show up every day again, again and again. That just 499 00:21:08,561 --> 00:21:11,801 Speaker 1: starts to like organically create a culture. So what are 500 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:15,041 Speaker 1: you trying to create at some in Australia And are 501 00:21:15,041 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 1: you deliberate about the things that you do and the 502 00:21:17,281 --> 00:21:19,121 Speaker 1: organization to achieve it, Like, are the things that you've 503 00:21:19,201 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 1: just tried to put in place to create this culture 504 00:21:21,241 --> 00:21:21,681 Speaker 1: that you want? 505 00:21:21,961 --> 00:21:24,921 Speaker 2: Yes, definitely. Probably the biggest one is communication. Going into 506 00:21:24,921 --> 00:21:27,801 Speaker 2: the role we had quite a fractioned stakeholder group. It's 507 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,361 Speaker 2: building relationships and it's supporting each other and also understanding 508 00:21:31,481 --> 00:21:34,360 Speaker 2: what the objectives of the other stakeholders are because the 509 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:38,401 Speaker 2: state swimming Tasmania may have a different objective to Swimming Australia, 510 00:21:38,441 --> 00:21:40,400 Speaker 2: which would have a different objective to World a Codex. 511 00:21:40,481 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 2: But you're working together in various way shapes and forms. 512 00:21:43,761 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 2: So communications missing in the past. So I bought that 513 00:21:47,041 --> 00:21:50,281 Speaker 2: certainly encourage that within our organization, for us to be 514 00:21:50,321 --> 00:21:53,281 Speaker 2: the ones that are reaching out to our stakeholders, engaging 515 00:21:53,281 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 2: with them, understanding them and it needs better and also 516 00:21:56,481 --> 00:21:59,001 Speaker 2: working with them so they understand what we're doing. We've 517 00:21:59,041 --> 00:22:02,601 Speaker 2: just gone through a strategic plan refresh and involved all 518 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 2: of our stakeholders in that, so they all had input 519 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:06,801 Speaker 2: in to it, and that's one of the goals, so 520 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,161 Speaker 2: that they understood and having put it to where we're going, 521 00:22:09,201 --> 00:22:12,161 Speaker 2: it's a normalization that they're our members, so they should 522 00:22:12,201 --> 00:22:14,921 Speaker 2: be aving inputs. So hopefully that's going a long way 523 00:22:14,961 --> 00:22:18,241 Speaker 2: towards creating I guess I'm all united sort of ecosystem 524 00:22:18,281 --> 00:22:20,801 Speaker 2: within the sport. That's an example of sort of working 525 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,761 Speaker 2: on something where I wanted to implement that. I guess 526 00:22:23,801 --> 00:22:25,641 Speaker 2: the change of thinking. 527 00:22:25,921 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 1: Yeah great, and I was thinking to a couple of CEOs. 528 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:30,041 Speaker 1: They tell me when specially when they come into a 529 00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 1: role new, they have a vision, right, and they're the 530 00:22:32,481 --> 00:22:34,160 Speaker 1: goals that the one achieve and the behavior is that 531 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,641 Speaker 1: they kind of want to expect from the organization those 532 00:22:36,681 --> 00:22:39,121 Speaker 1: who work there. I mean, you're just one man, right, 533 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,641 Speaker 1: so how do you make the people around you accountable 534 00:22:41,921 --> 00:22:44,361 Speaker 1: to stick to that, to be aligned like that sort 535 00:22:44,360 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 1: of teamwork at your direct level. 536 00:22:45,961 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 2: I don't think you'll make anyone be or do anything. 537 00:22:49,201 --> 00:22:52,041 Speaker 2: It's they need to want to be accountable. They need 538 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,160 Speaker 2: to want to be doing different roles. And one of 539 00:22:55,201 --> 00:22:58,001 Speaker 2: the things I certainly encourage is for people to feel 540 00:22:58,201 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 2: safe to speak up and to contribute, and I'm not 541 00:23:02,521 --> 00:23:06,041 Speaker 2: saying that didn't happen before I was there. Safe environment 542 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:10,041 Speaker 2: in the sense of everyone feeling confident their ideas, their thoughts, 543 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:14,041 Speaker 2: their questions will be heard and respected, is a fantastic 544 00:23:14,120 --> 00:23:18,160 Speaker 2: environment to be The enthusiasm and the collaborative nature is 545 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 2: shown by that is does wonders. That's the environment I 546 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,721 Speaker 2: like to think that we are creating, but it's very 547 00:23:23,761 --> 00:23:26,001 Speaker 2: much a team. But it's not just me, that's for sure. 548 00:23:26,321 --> 00:23:28,721 Speaker 2: We talk our purpose and vision outside that we're just 549 00:23:28,801 --> 00:23:31,561 Speaker 2: going with one purpose, and that is the purpose is 550 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,880 Speaker 2: to inspire a strains through swimming. Does that worked across 551 00:23:35,001 --> 00:23:37,880 Speaker 2: so many different areas of our sport, whether it's the 552 00:23:37,921 --> 00:23:41,161 Speaker 2: elite end or learn to swim or the eighty ninety 553 00:23:41,241 --> 00:23:43,041 Speaker 2: year olds that go down and dip their toes in 554 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 2: the water and swilling, their connection with their friends and 555 00:23:45,801 --> 00:23:49,321 Speaker 2: so on. If what we're doing is inspiring austrains is swimming, 556 00:23:49,360 --> 00:23:51,641 Speaker 2: then we're doing a job and we're doing a good thing. 557 00:23:51,961 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: As someone who does a lot of work on purpose values, 558 00:23:54,041 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 1: I love that purpose that's very good because it is 559 00:23:56,281 --> 00:23:58,360 Speaker 1: it can connect to everybody. And I kind of agree 560 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,120 Speaker 1: with you. If you imagine being part of your teammaking 561 00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: this happen. If you're not connected to that, like if 562 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: you don't get up every day to inspire Australians are 563 00:24:06,001 --> 00:24:07,881 Speaker 1: in swimming, then you probably not the job for you anyway. Right, 564 00:24:07,961 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 1: So it's a very heartfelt. I really really do love that. 565 00:24:11,561 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 1: What do you believe right now we are in your 566 00:24:14,321 --> 00:24:17,121 Speaker 1: life is still your biggest leadership challenge? Was the one 567 00:24:17,120 --> 00:24:19,041 Speaker 1: part of leasure that you go, oh, still got to 568 00:24:19,041 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: work on that, or I don't really like that, or 569 00:24:22,001 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: what's the bet that's sort of yeah. 570 00:24:23,721 --> 00:24:26,961 Speaker 2: The organization has challenged and I suppose from a leadership speak, 571 00:24:27,041 --> 00:24:30,361 Speaker 2: if it's part of my responsibility to look to overcome 572 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,360 Speaker 2: those challenges, I would think it is ensuring that we've 573 00:24:34,360 --> 00:24:38,521 Speaker 2: got proper diversity in our sport. By diversity across board, 574 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:42,360 Speaker 2: there's specific pockets where we have not been good in 575 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,521 Speaker 2: the past. For example, females coaching ranks at the level. 576 00:24:46,801 --> 00:24:49,561 Speaker 2: There's very few females at the elite level, so we 577 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 2: are instigating program to the development level, which will they'll 578 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 2: take a while to be coming through. There's the reason 579 00:24:55,721 --> 00:24:59,161 Speaker 2: why our coaching rank shouldn't be equally represented by male 580 00:24:59,201 --> 00:25:01,680 Speaker 2: and female. So gender equity and so on. But also 581 00:25:01,721 --> 00:25:04,880 Speaker 2: that diversity in the future of our sport in twenty 582 00:25:05,201 --> 00:25:08,360 Speaker 2: or even ten is bringing first generation of Australians and 583 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,881 Speaker 2: second generation of strains into the sport. I think that's 584 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,521 Speaker 2: probably from a leadership point of view. Those sorts of 585 00:25:13,521 --> 00:25:15,961 Speaker 2: things need to come from leaders. It's got to be 586 00:25:16,441 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 2: a real willingness to change and a real push to 587 00:25:19,561 --> 00:25:22,561 Speaker 2: have those changes accepted. And I think the acceptance part 588 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 2: is probably the easier part. But then that willingness and 589 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,041 Speaker 2: the strategizing around it is where the challenge has come 590 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,641 Speaker 2: to make that happen. So there's one for you. It's 591 00:25:30,681 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 2: probably that change in the diversity of our sport. 592 00:25:33,201 --> 00:25:35,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know great. What about specifically for you? Is 593 00:25:35,961 --> 00:25:37,640 Speaker 1: there a thing that you still have to do as 594 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,481 Speaker 1: a leader, whether that's sacking somebody or you know what 595 00:25:40,561 --> 00:25:43,801 Speaker 1: I mean, a difficult conversation that you still still get 596 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:44,521 Speaker 1: uncomfortable with. 597 00:25:44,761 --> 00:25:48,160 Speaker 2: I would always be uncomfortable with making major changes to 598 00:25:48,201 --> 00:25:51,041 Speaker 2: someone's life. And you know we're tucking or terminating employment 599 00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 2: for whatever reason. I've never found that an easy thing 600 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,841 Speaker 2: to do. Unfortunate times, it does have to happen. We've 601 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 2: got a great team at the moment, So don't need 602 00:25:58,561 --> 00:26:00,561 Speaker 2: to think about that right now. It still comes down 603 00:26:00,561 --> 00:26:02,880 Speaker 2: of communication as well. There are ways to do things, 604 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,401 Speaker 2: and the bad news does have to be delivered, and 605 00:26:05,961 --> 00:26:09,521 Speaker 2: good decisions need to be made, and that sometimes means 606 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:13,561 Speaker 2: making uncomfortable conversations. That's part of the leaders business. 607 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:14,801 Speaker 1: End of the day. Like I think, if anyone said 608 00:26:14,801 --> 00:26:16,281 Speaker 1: they didn't bother them, they probably should't be in the 609 00:26:16,360 --> 00:26:18,640 Speaker 1: role right like it should. We're human and it should 610 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: always bother us. Okay, I'm going to ask you a 611 00:26:20,721 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: question now, I'll pre warn you. Everyone have asked this 612 00:26:23,961 --> 00:26:25,921 Speaker 1: question to has struggled to answer it, so don't feel 613 00:26:25,921 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 1: bad if you do as well, because it's a tough thing. 614 00:26:28,441 --> 00:26:31,001 Speaker 1: It's probably the toughest question I've ever asked, and I 615 00:26:31,041 --> 00:26:33,561 Speaker 1: love It's why I keep using it, Rob wood House. 616 00:26:33,681 --> 00:26:36,041 Speaker 1: Why should anyone be led by you? 617 00:26:36,801 --> 00:26:41,281 Speaker 2: They probably shouldn't. Why should they be led by me? 618 00:26:41,521 --> 00:26:44,441 Speaker 2: It depends on the circumstance. But if I can sell them, 619 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:48,561 Speaker 2: influence them a belief of where we are going and 620 00:26:48,681 --> 00:26:51,321 Speaker 2: what our purpose is and what we need to achieve 621 00:26:52,041 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 2: to get there, if they're willing to buy into that 622 00:26:54,721 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 2: journey and contribute to all of those things. How we 623 00:26:57,761 --> 00:26:59,961 Speaker 2: get there, then that's why they should be led by me. 624 00:27:00,001 --> 00:27:02,961 Speaker 1: Because you will inspire them to get there. Correct seem 625 00:27:03,001 --> 00:27:05,241 Speaker 1: so hard for everyone to just own that vet really 626 00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:08,401 Speaker 1: say because I'm great, because I can say, no one 627 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,440 Speaker 1: can say it. They always good to help. I wanted 628 00:27:11,441 --> 00:27:14,081 Speaker 1: to lastly talk to you about empathy because obviously it's 629 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,160 Speaker 1: the last of brave and I think it's a really 630 00:27:16,201 --> 00:27:19,201 Speaker 1: interesting topic when it comes to professional sport. How much 631 00:27:19,321 --> 00:27:22,601 Speaker 1: room when everyone's striving to be the best is there 632 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,360 Speaker 1: for empathy when people aren't coping? Like, do we foster 633 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 1: a culture in Australian sports which says it's okay not 634 00:27:28,001 --> 00:27:29,521 Speaker 1: to be okay? Or could we do better? 635 00:27:29,721 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 2: We can always do better. We do a lot with 636 00:27:31,921 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 2: our well being of our athletes. There's still more to 637 00:27:34,761 --> 00:27:36,321 Speaker 2: be done, and there's more to be done with the 638 00:27:36,321 --> 00:27:39,681 Speaker 2: wide team at coaches and supports. Stuff that's been five 639 00:27:39,801 --> 00:27:42,360 Speaker 2: six months a year away from home and away most 640 00:27:42,360 --> 00:27:45,001 Speaker 2: we cans from family in mod Onnes and things like that. 641 00:27:45,521 --> 00:27:48,601 Speaker 2: So the well being of our team is crucial and 642 00:27:48,721 --> 00:27:51,521 Speaker 2: empathy plays a massive role in that. But if we 643 00:27:51,561 --> 00:27:54,601 Speaker 2: don't have empathy, nothing else really matters. You can win 644 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,281 Speaker 2: all the gold medals in the world. But you don't. 645 00:27:56,321 --> 00:27:59,681 Speaker 2: If you don't have empathy for those around you, whether 646 00:27:59,721 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 2: it be family and friends or colleagues and so on, 647 00:28:02,360 --> 00:28:04,321 Speaker 2: then what are you doing. You shouldn't be involved. 648 00:28:04,681 --> 00:28:07,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. Let's go back to eighteen year 649 00:28:07,921 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 1: old Rob seen photos but there was no mullet. So 650 00:28:10,801 --> 00:28:13,121 Speaker 1: good to see that. Dren didn't keep going. What's the 651 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,680 Speaker 1: best advice you would give yourself today? Wut you know 652 00:28:15,801 --> 00:28:17,841 Speaker 1: now that you wish me? Then what would you tell yourself? 653 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,201 Speaker 1: Do what you love so you'd end up probably here? 654 00:28:20,241 --> 00:28:20,401 Speaker 2: Then? 655 00:28:21,241 --> 00:28:23,761 Speaker 1: Good full story. Oh, thank you, Rob. It's been a 656 00:28:23,761 --> 00:28:26,281 Speaker 1: pleasure talking to you, and I'm super excited for some 657 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 1: in Australia and where things are going to go, So 658 00:28:28,241 --> 00:28:28,801 Speaker 1: thank you for that. 659 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,961 Speaker 2: No, thanks em great question, so thanks very much.