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Speaker 1: Australian business, families and communities are facing a communication crisis.

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Speaker 1: He says workers are hiding behind emails instead of having

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Speaker 1: honest conversations. Kids can't look people in the eye or

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Speaker 1: shake hands properly. Corporate Australia is wasting millions on culture

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Speaker 1: initiatives while people feel more disconnected. He says, we've replaced

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Speaker 1: genuine community with digital connectivity and we're pretending it's the

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Speaker 1: same same thing. Everyone from business owners to parents are

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Speaker 1: paying the price. His name is Jonathan Peace. He has

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Speaker 1: a podcast called Winning the Room and he's been exploring

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Speaker 1: those themes. Communications expert and executive coach. He's on the

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Speaker 1: line Jonathan Good evening.

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Speaker 2: Hey Matthew, how are you?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Good, thank you. Fascinated by this. So the digital

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Speaker 1: revolution obviously has its drawbacks, and you look at young kids,

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Speaker 1: for instance, glued to screens wherever they are, in whatever situation.

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Speaker 1: It seems we are not doing it right in every

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Speaker 1: aspect are we look?

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Speaker 2: It seems that way, And I do worry about young people,

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Speaker 2: especially because you know they've just gone through COVID and

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Speaker 2: maybe now they're getting their first job and they really

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Speaker 2: haven't had much training. When it comes to getting in

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Speaker 2: a room and connecting with someone. Tough.

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Speaker 1: What do we need to change?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, firstly, we need to figure out a

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Speaker 2: way to crystallize what the actual skills are going to

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Speaker 2: be that will separate us from AI from you know,

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Speaker 2: machines etc. In the future. And I really think that

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Speaker 2: comes down to the ability to connect human to human.

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Speaker 2: And I know it sounds a little bit wo word,

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Speaker 2: but if you think about it, if AI can write

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Speaker 2: your emails, can write your pitch deck, what we need

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Speaker 2: to get really good at is things like empathy and

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Speaker 2: true understanding and connection.

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Speaker 1: So be the humans we were up until about ten

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Speaker 1: years ago.

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Speaker 2: Mate, exactly exactly the old fashioned stuff. But look it's

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Speaker 2: the old fashioned stuff we AI helping and finding finding

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Speaker 2: new ways for us to express ourselves. But I guess

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Speaker 2: what worries me is I see lots of people in

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Speaker 2: business but also just in general life now relying on

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Speaker 2: AI to do some of that stuff. That to me

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Speaker 2: is a very slippery slope.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I don't know where to start with this,

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Speaker 1: families or the workplace. But if we start with the workplace,

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Speaker 1: so I'll pick that one. And you look at a

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Speaker 1: show like Utopia, which nailed some of the culture issues

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Speaker 1: in the workplace brilliantly. I know one of your points

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Speaker 1: is belonging at work is actually a human need, not

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Speaker 1: a perk, and not something you say you buy with

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Speaker 1: pizza Fridays. And I couldn't agree with that more.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, mate, exactly. Look, I think I think in the

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Speaker 2: eighties everyone put in foost tables and bean bags and

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Speaker 2: it's sort of it sort of worked in a relatively

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Speaker 2: transactional way. But you know what it comes down to

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Speaker 2: people wanting to know that they can be heard, they

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Speaker 2: have an opinion and I'll actually listened to, right, And

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Speaker 2: you can't do that with any of these pay to

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Speaker 2: play type ideas. You've actually, as a leader, got to

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Speaker 2: make space for people, got to communicate properly and lead

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Speaker 2: them with stories. You know what if people can't do that,

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Speaker 2: then again it becomes a place where people don't feel

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Speaker 2: connected and they probably I don't know, opt out or

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Speaker 2: you know, find other places to work.

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Speaker 1: AI. Now you've mentioned that along with listening, is that

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Speaker 1: the way we live with it? You say, you know,

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Speaker 1: we communicate ourselves and AI helps make things, you know,

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Speaker 1: finish us off the finishing touches for us listening would

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Speaker 1: be key and just just going down that path communicating,

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Speaker 1: learning to do that again and doing it properly. But

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Speaker 1: listening is key to that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, I mean speaking with some of my guests

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Speaker 2: on the podcast, and they come from all different walks

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Speaker 2: of life. The one thing that kept coming through was

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Speaker 2: when you're in those moments, in those big rooms I

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Speaker 2: kind of call them high consequence rooms where it really matters.

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Speaker 2: The people that can cut through and connect with other people,

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Speaker 2: they're the people that rise, even if they're not as

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Speaker 2: good at the job. So whilst I may give you

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Speaker 2: the facts and figures and a lot of the basics,

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Speaker 2: if you can't take that one step further and get

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Speaker 2: people to believe and feel it, you are going to

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Speaker 2: fall behind.

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Speaker 1: What is the one thing that you can do in

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Speaker 1: a conversation to cut through and connect? How do you

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Speaker 1: do that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Look, the first thing you can do is turn

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Speaker 2: on all of the things that make you feel present.

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Speaker 2: So for example, and again they're going to sound brutally simple,

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Speaker 2: but I work with lots of people and I see

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Speaker 2: it not being applied. Look, people in the eyes, take

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Speaker 2: a minute to smile, slow down, you know, use things

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Speaker 2: like body language, where are you going to stand, how

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Speaker 2: are you going to open yourself to the room or

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Speaker 2: close yourself off? All of these things have an outweighed impact,

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Speaker 2: probably more than the message that you're going to say.

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Speaker 2: Comes through with the way you turn up and be

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Speaker 2: preaten in the room. And you can practice these.

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Speaker 1: Things, right, So, things like not having your arms folded

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Speaker 1: when you're meeting people and talking to people, for instance,

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Speaker 1: across your chest that barrier that you know, I think

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Speaker 1: we all know from who was the bloke with the

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Speaker 1: body language all those years ago?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's fun enough a relation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah right, Okay, there we go. But that was one

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Speaker 1: of the things he talked about.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, look exactly simple things like you know, how

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Speaker 2: you stand crossed arms not crossed arms, but also just

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Speaker 2: slowing down and taking a moment and thinking about the

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Speaker 2: room you're walking into, the people and finding ways to

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Speaker 2: connect on a human level. Again, no document can do that,

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Speaker 2: no AI service can do that. So that's what that's

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Speaker 2: what we need to really cultivate and work on. And again,

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Speaker 2: I just don't think people are focused on it.

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Speaker 1: Management for people in a role where they're in charge

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Speaker 1: of others, and I've worked with some really good managers

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Speaker 1: and some really bad managers and self leadership. They should

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Speaker 1: be setting the example, right, is that the key to it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, they should be setting the example. But also

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Speaker 2: they need to lead with stories. Right. If the team

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Speaker 2: doesn't have clarity on what you believe in and the

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Speaker 2: vision for the business, I mean, how the hell are

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Speaker 2: they meant to follow you? How are they meant to

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Speaker 2: know what to do? So it really is incumbent on

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Speaker 2: leaders to set that vision. And again that can't be

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Speaker 2: done with the document. It can't be done sort of

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Speaker 2: phoning it in. You need to turn up. You need

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Speaker 2: to tell those stories, and you need to make people

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Speaker 2: feel it and believe it.

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Speaker 1: Emails make it too easy. Mentioned that earlier, and something

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Speaker 1: you talk about a lot, we'd rather email each other,

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Speaker 1: And we could be setting a row over or on

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Speaker 1: the same floor, and you know, five meters away from somebody,

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Speaker 1: we'd rather email them than go and talk to them.

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Speaker 1: And that's the worry.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, I think the question we should all be

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Speaker 2: asking is could I achieve whatever I'm trying to achieve

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Speaker 2: faster and better if I just went over and spoke

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Speaker 2: to the person, right, And that could be a client

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Speaker 2: that could be a coworker, it doesn't matter. But you're right.

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Speaker 2: We email, we send presentations, we do all these other

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Speaker 2: things when an actual fact is probably quicker and higher

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Speaker 2: quality just to go and speak to the person.

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Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on work from home because you

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Speaker 1: want to talk about connectivity. Well, that flies in the

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Speaker 1: face of it, obviously.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, look it does. I mean, I think work

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Speaker 2: from home has been great for a lot of people

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Speaker 2: from a flexibility point of view. But again, I think

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Speaker 2: it's dangerous because, especially for young people, if that's all

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Speaker 2: they've ever done, well, I mean, how they're meant to

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Speaker 2: learn from other people. Sure, you can read the documents

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Speaker 2: and listen to people, but I don't know about you,

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Speaker 2: but a lot of my early learning came from following people,

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Speaker 2: and really Viral's most just being in the room with people.

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Speaker 2: That's where I think I got my deepest learning. So

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Speaker 2: I worry for young people that have never really had

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Speaker 2: that in office experience, that sort of teamwork feeling that

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Speaker 2: you get and that's how.

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Speaker 1: You really improve and also how you find mentors in

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Speaker 1: the workforce too, because you are really dealing with people,

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Speaker 1: You're connecting, as you say, so really important. I think

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Speaker 1: for younger people. You know, I got to say, if

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Speaker 1: I was young and work from home was an option,

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Speaker 1: you know, how much work I'd be doing wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: a heck of a lot. I don't think i'd last

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Speaker 1: in a job working from home. I really don't, especially

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Speaker 1: that other day.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and look, I think the problem coming is for

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Speaker 2: those younger people who want to work from home, etc.

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Speaker 2: You'd have to ask yourself as a manager, well, if

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Speaker 2: there was a solution to replace that with AI, maybe

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Speaker 2: I'd take it, right Like, maybe I'd take that solution

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Speaker 2: certainly a lot quicker than I would from the person

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Speaker 2: who's in person, building relationships, clearly, learning visible all those things.

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Speaker 2: So I agree, if I was a young person right now,

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Speaker 2: I'd be going to the office every single day. I'd

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Speaker 2: be there first, and i'd be out last and look,

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Speaker 2: to be frank, That's exactly what I did at the

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Speaker 2: start of my career. I just think it's even more

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Speaker 2: relevant now to do that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think there's something in that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that is the old nose to the grindstone, and it's

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Speaker 1: always paid off, I think for a lot of people

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Speaker 1: who have done it over the years, no matter what

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Speaker 1: the industry and career they've chosen. That demonstrates a willingness

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Speaker 1: to work and be involved and pull more than pull

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Speaker 1: your weight, which is really so important, particularly for employers

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Speaker 1: to see and hopefully reward. If it comes to the crunch,

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Speaker 1: you're the one who keeps.

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Speaker 2: A job exactly and look like with all changes, it

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Speaker 2: actually presents a really fantastic opportunity because if most people

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Speaker 2: and most young people are working from home, all you've

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Speaker 2: got to do is go to the office all the time.

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Speaker 2: Suddenly you stick out, like you get an immediate leg

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Speaker 2: up just from turning up and being involved, as you say,

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Speaker 2: then perform on top of that, Suddenly you're the rising star. So,

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Speaker 2: as I say, with any change, there's always opportunity. People

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Speaker 2: just got to be actively looking for it.

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Speaker 1: JP you advise large companies, what are some things you've

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Speaker 1: seen they're doing really well? What are some things they're not?

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Speaker 2: Gosh, I mean it's a broad question, it is, but look,

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Speaker 2: I think something that high performing executives and high performing

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Speaker 2: businesses do well. They get really clear on what they

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Speaker 2: believe in as an organization. We usually call it purpose

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Speaker 2: the why. They also get crystal clear on where the

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Speaker 2: business is going. Let's call it a vision statement. Those

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Speaker 2: two things combined with some values, i e. How we

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Speaker 2: want to treat each other. If you can make that

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Speaker 2: crystal clear for your team and for investors for that matter,

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Speaker 2: you tend to be able to extract a lot more

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Speaker 2: value from the team. But also valuations and commercial outcomes

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Speaker 2: rise as well. So I think having real clarity around

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Speaker 2: that and for bonus points, you'd have a strong story

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Speaker 2: that people can remember. If you've got that, I think

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Speaker 2: that's a real trait of high performing organizations and high

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Speaker 2: performing leaders. On the flip side, I think people that

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Speaker 2: people and organizations that are taking a knee jerk reaction

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Speaker 2: towards AI and just basically throwing AI at everything, right, like, really,

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Speaker 2: any process we do, any value we add, let's just

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Speaker 2: throw AI assets and see if that will make it better.

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Speaker 2: I think that is a real trap at a real risk.

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Speaker 2: And look, we've seen businesses in the media over the

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Speaker 2: last six months really have some trip hazards when it

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Speaker 2: came to AI, and again, I just think it's because

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Speaker 2: people are applying it broadly and almost with minimal checks.

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Speaker 2: And you know, we all know what happens when you

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Speaker 2: do that with anything right, too much of anything is

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Speaker 2: never good, and I do think a lot of organizations

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Speaker 2: are fitting into that bucket when it comes to AI.

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Speaker 1: All right, it's an interesting chant, Jonathan, thank you for

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Speaker 1: your time tonight, the podcast Winning the Room and that

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Speaker 1: people can tune into that and it's all about the

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Speaker 1: future of communication. You talk to some pretty amazing people,

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Speaker 1: some big names. Adam Spencer been one.

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Speaker 2: Of the amazing. Yeah, I've been amazing to chat with,

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Speaker 2: so much fun.

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Speaker 1: What have you learned from it? Oh?

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Speaker 2: Wow? I mean every time I get on one of

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Speaker 2: these conversations, I always feel completely out of my depth,

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Speaker 2: which I enjoy. I love that. I love that sort

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Speaker 2: of resistance that you get when you sit with someone

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Speaker 2: who's smarter than you. I mean, gosh. In the music industry,

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Speaker 2: what I learned from Dan Rosen, who runs Warner Music Australasia.

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Speaker 2: He said something really simple and clever. Basically, the art,

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Speaker 2: the greatest artist of any time make the most of

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Speaker 2: the technology, right, so they lean into whatever that technology

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Speaker 2: might be. And I think we can all learn from that.

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Speaker 2: We all need to lean into AI do it in

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Speaker 2: a design measured way. But I just thought that was

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Speaker 2: interesting to hear that from a musical artist point of view,

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Speaker 2: and how closer that relates to what I'm seeing in business.

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Speaker 2: All the way out to Adam Spencer, hilarious comedian, great

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Speaker 2: great mathematical minds. His opinion is we are so close

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Speaker 2: to the language barrier no longer being there. So literally

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Speaker 2: you can go anywhere in the world and speak with

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Speaker 2: the people as if you speak their language through glasses, headphones,

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Speaker 2: whatever the technology and hardware is. But just imagine a

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Speaker 2: world like that where there is no language barrier. I

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Speaker 2: found that just a little nugget very interesting from Adam.

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Speaker 1: Look, there were so many Yeah, indeed fascinating speaking with you, Jonathan,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for your time tonight and all

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Speaker 1: the best for the podcast.

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Speaker 2: Oh thanks, Matthew, I really appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: Winning the Room podcast, so you can check that one out.

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Speaker 1: Jonathan Peace my guest