1 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:08,719 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:12,400 Sean Aylmer: Bitcoin investors are having a pretty good week, with cryptocurrency 3 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,280 Sean Aylmer: heading towards a new record high this week. It's been 4 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:19,319 Sean Aylmer: a massive year for digital assets more broadly, starting with 5 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,360 Sean Aylmer: the inauguration of a very pro crypto president who even 6 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:25,639 Sean Aylmer: launched his own meme coin, and rather than dent demand, 7 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:29,040 Sean Aylmer: global economic uncertainty in recent months seems to have fueled 8 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:32,839 Sean Aylmer: investor interest in many of the cryptocurrencies. Locally, we had 9 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,800 Sean Aylmer: both sides of politics committing to a regulatory framework for 10 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:39,120 Sean Aylmer: digital assets during the election campaign. Plenty going on. Remember 11 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:42,159 Sean Aylmer: this is all general information. You should always seek professional 12 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:46,080 Sean Aylmer: advice before making investment decisions. John O'Loghlen is he managing director 13 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:48,920 Sean Aylmer: of Coinbase Australia. He joins me in the studio. John, 14 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:50,040 Sean Aylmer: welcome back to Fear and Greed. 15 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:51,080 John O'Loghlen: Great to be back. 16 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,200 Sean Aylmer: So he put this back to Donald Trump's inauguration, but 17 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:56,920 Sean Aylmer: really it was going on before then too, because even 18 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:00,520 Sean Aylmer: the Democrats pro the US election were certainly warn to 19 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:01,760 Sean Aylmer: crypto currencies. 20 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:05,399 John O'Loghlen: Yes, certainly, and we had quite a large push in 21 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:10,120 John O'Loghlen: the US around identifying politicians who were pro crypto, those 22 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:12,000 John O'Loghlen: that were kind of middle of the road, those that 23 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:14,560 John O'Loghlen: were conservative on crypto, and I think it's one of 24 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:18,399 John O'Loghlen: the first times that Silicon Valley has had a unified 25 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:22,080 John O'Loghlen: impact on the result of the election. And to my mind, 26 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,240 John O'Loghlen: that just speaks to the demographic and the demand for 27 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:27,160 John O'Loghlen: the product. You know, the train has left the station. 28 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:30,360 John O'Loghlen: In North America, it is more advanced, I would say, 29 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:32,080 John O'Loghlen: in terms of adoption in that market. You know, you 30 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:33,640 John O'Loghlen: go and do a motel and you turn on the 31 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,520 John O'Loghlen: TV or at a hotel and there are ads bona 32 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:39,520 John O'Loghlen: fide ads for all the big exchanges or the major 33 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,840 John O'Loghlen: two or three players on your cable news. I think 34 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:46,080 John O'Loghlen: in North America we have over one hundred million users, 35 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:49,360 John O'Loghlen: so it was a real election issue. But to your point, 36 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,960 John O'Loghlen: we already had some very positive developments with our legal 37 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:55,480 John O'Loghlen: case against the SEC, and you've now seen that with 38 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,840 John O'Loghlen: a number of players and the digital asset space as well. 39 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,720 John O'Loghlen: Those cases have been either overturned if they're on appeal, 40 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:04,760 John O'Loghlen: or they've won those cases outright. So it's not just 41 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,880 John O'Loghlen: this kind of bump from Trump. I think there were 42 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:08,839 John O'Loghlen: some good tail winds. 43 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,440 Sean Aylmer: They're already we talk about bitcoin all the time. Obviously, 44 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:17,320 Sean Aylmer: there are a bunch of cryptocurrencies. How far down I mean, 45 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:19,280 Sean Aylmer: I'm not even quite sure how to describe it, John, 46 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:23,320 Sean Aylmer: But bitcoin has credibility. No one's arguing that anymore. We 47 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:25,839 Sean Aylmer: were arguing that twelve months ago, two years ago. How 48 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:31,920 Sean Aylmer: far down the scale does a credibility flow? So Ethereum, Salanta, 49 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:35,120 Sean Aylmer: some of those sorts of coins have plenty of credibility. 50 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,040 Sean Aylmer: I'm just kind of wondering where the cutoff mark is. 51 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,600 John O'Loghlen: Great question, and I think if you're very much in 52 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:42,760 John O'Loghlen: the world of DeFi and you're kind of what they 53 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:45,720 John O'Loghlen: call a DJN, and you're under thirty, and you're living 54 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:49,480 John O'Loghlen: and breathing, you know, prediction markets and playing web three gaming, 55 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:54,320 John O'Loghlen: and you are really on chain, you probably think the 56 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:58,040 John O'Loghlen: long tan taiale of thousands of coins are relevant. But 57 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:00,640 John O'Loghlen: I think to break it down to your point, the 58 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,519 John O'Loghlen: vast majority of the market cap of digital assets is 59 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:08,000 John O'Loghlen: still bitcoin, you know, northward of two thirds. And then 60 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:12,240 John O'Loghlen: you have I would say ten to fifteen really solid 61 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:18,359 John O'Loghlen: respected utility tokens that are emerging. And this is Ripple Solana, Polygon, Ethereum. 62 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,520 John O'Loghlen: You mentioned a number of them, and they're all beginning 63 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,040 John O'Loghlen: to kind of position. Some are going to kind of 64 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,640 John O'Loghlen: possibly outcompete some others in terms of providing efficiency on 65 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:31,359 John O'Loghlen: chain with gas fees, et cetera. Others are based around identity, 66 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:34,880 John O'Loghlen: others around intellectual property, ripples very much based on banking 67 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,720 John O'Loghlen: and kind of making more efficiencies in rails. And so 68 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:41,520 John O'Loghlen: I think you've got that kind of handful there, and 69 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,680 John O'Loghlen: people are beginning to understand those, be more educator on them, 70 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:48,520 John O'Loghlen: and they're getting a greater share of the allocation of 71 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,040 John O'Loghlen: capital that people are putting to work and digital assets. 72 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:55,080 John O'Loghlen: And then you certainly have a very long tail of assets, 73 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:57,280 John O'Loghlen: and then there would be thousands of coins that are 74 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:01,720 John O'Loghlen: i would say highly speculative and and quite marginal. I 75 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:05,280 John O'Loghlen: think it's important to note we have a pretty high 76 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,240 John O'Loghlen: bar for due diligence on tokens. We only list, you know, 77 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:12,080 John O'Loghlen: around four hundred tokens. And if there are some tokens 78 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:14,160 John O'Loghlen: out of Australia for example, that we've listed that are 79 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,279 John O'Loghlen: really interesting new energy projects that have been you know, 80 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:21,680 John O'Loghlen: tokenized fundraising projects, web through gaming out of Queensland and others, 81 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,880 John O'Loghlen: Caine Warwick and his team pretty well known, and you know, 82 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:27,600 John O'Loghlen: we literally go and do proof of life on the 83 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:31,920 John O'Loghlen: founders and so it's a pretty rigorous regime. Other exchanges 84 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,000 John O'Loghlen: are listing tens of thousands of tokens, and so that 85 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,719 John O'Loghlen: world is very much kind of buyer beware, and a 86 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:40,440 John O'Loghlen: lot of it's in the wallet space as well, so 87 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,520 John O'Loghlen: you can't actually link a fiat wallet to that crypto. 88 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:47,520 John O'Loghlen: It's really crypto to crypto. And so, you know, while 89 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,080 John O'Loghlen: that is all maybe not for the person on the 90 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:53,200 John O'Loghlen: main street, that is where the innovation is happening, and 91 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:55,960 John O'Loghlen: the future Polygons and Salanas and Repels of the world 92 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:58,440 John O'Loghlen: may come out of that environment. 93 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:00,680 Sean Aylmer: You've taken me in a path I didn't expect to 94 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:02,760 Sean Aylmer: go here. I mean, we talk about meme coins, right, 95 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:04,760 Sean Aylmer: but meme coins are a long long way from a 96 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:06,320 Sean Aylmer: crypto token. 97 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:11,200 John O'Loghlen: Absolutely, you know, meme coins are a cultural phenomena for 98 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:14,400 John O'Loghlen: an age bracket that is south of probably you or me. 99 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:20,040 John O'Loghlen: They are literally a cultural speculative, you know, opportunities and 100 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:24,520 John O'Loghlen: much like baseball cards and Pokemon cards. I don't know 101 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:26,920 John O'Loghlen: if you read you know the Ft kind of their 102 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,920 John O'Loghlen: columns every day, and there's a big piece on these 103 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,440 John O'Loghlen: Japanese kind of fluffy toys that are taking the world 104 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,800 John O'Loghlen: and they're five six, seven hundred dollars. I mean, they're 105 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:39,880 John O'Loghlen: just across the way and Patty's market. You know, where 106 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:42,240 John O'Loghlen: is the inherent value and that item it's you know, 107 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:43,600 John O'Loghlen: it's really in the eye of the beholder. 108 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:45,800 Sean Aylmer: Okay, so let's bring it back to bitcoin. He said, 109 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,040 Sean Aylmer: two thirds of the values in bitcoin. Why is bitcoin 110 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:53,719 Sean Aylmer: doing so well in these incredible times of uncertainty Because 111 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:57,080 Sean Aylmer: in terms of how I think about bitcoin, there's kind 112 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,560 Sean Aylmer: of a disconnect almost that it can be around a 113 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:03,320 Sean Aylmer: record level when you have so much global uncertainty. Yeah. 114 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:07,359 John O'Loghlen: Well, look, I think it's clearly a hedge against governments 115 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:11,480 John O'Loghlen: printing money and uncertainty. And there is one certainty in 116 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:16,479 John O'Loghlen: that the mining calculation and formula for bitcoin delivers a 117 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,039 John O'Loghlen: finite amount of bitcoin, and at some point in time 118 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,320 John O'Loghlen: in coming years, mining will cease and then that asset 119 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:26,360 John O'Loghlen: class will continue to you know, you assume appreciate in 120 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:30,160 John O'Loghlen: value if that demand is there. The real game changer 121 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,839 John O'Loghlen: for you know, this kind of digital war chest is 122 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:38,040 John O'Loghlen: who's been holding the bitcoin? And so when the ETFs 123 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,880 John O'Loghlen: and other funds came into the market a little over 124 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:45,880 John O'Loghlen: a year ago, that absolutely changed the adoption. And you know, 125 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,920 John O'Loghlen: you'll hear people like Michael says and others say, you know, 126 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:52,440 John O'Loghlen: for every institutional buyer to buy bitcoin, there has to 127 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:55,040 John O'Loghlen: be a retail punter who has to sell it to them. 128 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:56,680 John O'Loghlen: And so then you know, you kind of have this 129 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:00,840 John O'Loghlen: hoddle hang on and really kind of guard guard your asset. 130 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:04,640 John O'Loghlen: When I talk to people out on the street, beyond 131 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:09,000 John O'Loghlen: retail customers, of which many of them are self educated, 132 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,679 John O'Loghlen: they're young professionals, a group that we call Henry's high owners. 133 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:16,160 John O'Loghlen: Not rich yet, they're really looking to understand how they 134 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,760 John O'Loghlen: can unlock their own financial freedom and make sure they 135 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,000 John O'Loghlen: don't miss out on what may be the next kind 136 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,280 John O'Loghlen: of asset classing. They probably missed out on venture capital. 137 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:26,240 John O'Loghlen: Probably can't get into private equity that evening that easily. 138 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:29,200 John O'Loghlen: Rather they've got into ETFs. Maybe their parents had some 139 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,240 John O'Loghlen: gold because they're from a country where gold is really important, 140 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:35,000 John O'Loghlen: like an India or the Middle East, and now they're 141 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:40,520 John O'Loghlen: looking at bitcoin. Beyond that, you have a series of traders. 142 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:42,640 John O'Loghlen: People have been in what we call trad five for 143 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,640 John O'Loghlen: a long time. They've been currency traders, they've been commodities traders. 144 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:53,400 John O'Loghlen: They are increasingly skeptical about the structure of global finance 145 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,320 John O'Loghlen: and governments. Printing money and they really want it a 146 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:57,200 John O'Loghlen: hedge against inflation. 147 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:05,520 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, John, and we'll be back in a minute. 148 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,240 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is John A. Laughlin from Coinbase Australia. 149 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:13,280 Sean Aylmer: You touched before the break. You touched on the idea 150 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:17,080 Sean Aylmer: that institutions were getting involved. What does it mean for 151 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:21,360 Sean Aylmer: bitcoin when something like the Future Fund or AMP starts 152 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:25,720 Sean Aylmer: talking about investing in cryptos and then I want to 153 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:27,080 Sean Aylmer: get onto government regulation. 154 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,520 John O'Loghlen: Certainly, I think it gives people a kind of stamp 155 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:34,360 John O'Loghlen: of confidence, to be honest than nothing else. I mean, 156 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:38,480 John O'Loghlen: I had I was given an a MP investment product 157 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:40,079 John O'Loghlen: when I was born by one of my uncles and 158 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:41,920 John O'Loghlen: aunts in New Zealand, and I kind of redeemed this 159 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:44,000 John O'Loghlen: book when I was about twenty one and it was 160 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:46,320 John O'Loghlen: worth a nice, pretty penny. I mean, clearly their products 161 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,120 John O'Loghlen: of advance from then. Others might say they need to 162 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,200 John O'Loghlen: keep they need to keep advancing. A MP may even 163 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:54,280 John O'Loghlen: be viewed as one of the more conservative players in 164 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:59,040 John O'Loghlen: the market, but I think they are performing a very 165 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:03,720 John O'Loghlen: classic step in portfolio diversification. The amount of money that 166 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:07,000 John O'Loghlen: AMP have allocated to bitcoin, and we're delighted to be 167 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:11,320 John O'Loghlen: working with AMP on their strategy is really a drop 168 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:15,120 John O'Loghlen: in the ocean. I mean, it's it's percentage points, it's sorry, 169 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,480 John O'Loghlen: it's basis points of their overall assets under management. And 170 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:21,200 John O'Loghlen: in the case of the Future Fund, they're also looking 171 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:25,200 John O'Loghlen: at coinbase tick a coin as a stock as a 172 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,760 John O'Loghlen: proxy to bitcoin, and so I think also coinbases entry 173 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:30,840 John O'Loghlen: to the S and P five hundred was an interesting 174 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:33,679 John O'Loghlen: milestone as well, and I think it just shows the 175 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:35,960 John O'Loghlen: sustainability of the asset class. 176 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:40,240 Sean Aylmer: What about regulation the commitments? Some commitments were made during 177 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:45,000 Sean Aylmer: the election campaign. Where are we going on regulation in Australia? 178 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,960 John O'Loghlen: We got great question and we need to keep moving 179 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:49,920 John O'Loghlen: on it. I mean we've been pushing this with our 180 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,720 John O'Loghlen: movement called stam with Crypto as we work closely with 181 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:56,440 John O'Loghlen: Canberra and governments all over the world. The new federal 182 00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:00,120 John O'Loghlen: government needs to be held accountable to their commitment. It 183 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:04,800 John O'Loghlen: was wonderful to be having Andrew Charlton as the spokesperson 184 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:08,480 John O'Loghlen: for the digital ass industry within the Labor government. He 185 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:11,439 John O'Loghlen: now has some new positions and he's a new younger 186 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:14,839 John O'Loghlen: rising member. But we really need Chalmers the Treasure to 187 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,240 John O'Loghlen: step up to the plate and follow through on a 188 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,199 John O'Loghlen: bunch of asks. We think a task force in the 189 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,120 John O'Loghlen: first hundred days of government, which is very much coming up, 190 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,640 John O'Loghlen: is really important. Working with industry. They've committed to that 191 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:31,400 John O'Loghlen: we need to be acting pretty heavily on debanking. 192 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:33,420 Sean Aylmer: Explain that to me. 193 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:38,960 John O'Loghlen: Okay, so debanking is when because you want to buy crypto, 194 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:41,199 John O'Loghlen: or because you work for a company that makes its 195 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:44,160 John O'Loghlen: money from crypto, or because you're a startup in the 196 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:47,640 John O'Loghlen: web three space, you literally can't get a bank account. 197 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:52,839 John O'Loghlen: All your banking services are handicapped or retarded. So right 198 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,920 John O'Loghlen: now there's kind of a governor on lots of people 199 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,720 John O'Loghlen: wanting to put fee ut money into their crypto account 200 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,600 John O'Loghlen: through the Big four many of the other banks. There's 201 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:05,080 John O'Loghlen: even effects myself. I have a pretty decent set of 202 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:07,160 John O'Loghlen: financial products with a bank. I know people on the 203 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:10,080 John O'Loghlen: boards of these banks, even someone who has been around 204 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:12,080 John O'Loghlen: the block and knows some people in the hallowed halls 205 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:14,679 John O'Loghlen: of the CBD. If I can't get an unlock for this, 206 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,440 John O'Loghlen: forget the guy out on the main street in West 207 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,240 John O'Loghlen: Sydney who just wants to dabble and trade in crypto. 208 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:23,080 John O'Loghlen: There are twenty four hour holds. There's ten thousand dollars 209 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:28,800 John O'Loghlen: monthly limits. It is absolutely draconian activity from the big 210 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,280 John O'Loghlen: banks who are just trying to add friction into the 211 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:36,559 John O'Loghlen: system because they're dealing with hundreds of other issues around 212 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:41,040 John O'Loghlen: the infrastructure of their own own businesses, and that's been 213 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:44,880 John O'Loghlen: heightened by scams and frauds. I think the one thing 214 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:48,160 John O'Loghlen: I would really like to debunk, not debank, but debunk 215 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:52,440 John O'Loghlen: and demystify is this whole idea that crypto is just 216 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:55,400 John O'Loghlen: full of scam and fraud and people on the dark 217 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:58,320 John O'Loghlen: web using it. I mean, criminals are seven times more 218 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:02,400 John O'Loghlen: likely to use cash. Less than two percent of all 219 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,840 John O'Loghlen: crypto is used in some nefarious manner. It's a much 220 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:10,640 John O'Loghlen: higher fraction for cash, And if you're on the blockchain, 221 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:13,840 John O'Loghlen: you can be found. And so we work with the 222 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:17,200 John O'Loghlen: Andy Scam Center, with the AFP State Police, we have 223 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:20,480 John O'Loghlen: a global intelligence unit fielding these requests to help law 224 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,600 John O'Loghlen: enforcement agencies all over the world. So this whole idea 225 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:27,880 John O'Loghlen: that crypto is this big kind of dark hole, it's 226 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,800 John O'Loghlen: really dated and I think it's really not beneficial for 227 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:31,679 John O'Loghlen: Ozzie consumers. 228 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,000 Sean Aylmer: Fantastic, John, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 229 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:34,920 John O'Loghlen: Thanks a lot. 230 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,199 Sean Aylmer: Now was John A. Lachlan Managing director of Coinbase Australia. 231 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,240 Sean Aylmer: This is the Fear and Greed Business Interview. Remember this 232 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:43,120 Sean Aylmer: is general information only and you should seek professional advice 233 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,040 Sean Aylmer: before making investment decisions. Join us every morning for the 234 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:49,040 Sean Aylmer: full episode of Fear and Greed business news you can use. 235 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:50,920 Sean Aylmer: I'm Sean Elmer. Enjoy your day.