WEBVTT - #2050 Hard Conversations & Feedback - Bobby Cappuccio 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:02.160 Good to him. I hope you're Tori. If you're welcome 0:00:02.240 --> 0:00:05.560 another installment of the show. It's jumbo. It taps wherever 0:00:05.600 --> 0:00:09.680 you are, whatever you're doing, we hope you are okay, 0:00:09.760 --> 0:00:12.720 somewhere between okay and fantastic. Let's let's set the bar 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:14.760 low so we're not putting too much pressure on you. 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:19.360 Okay would be fine, Fantastic would be awesome. But also 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:21.439 some of you are going to be shit, and that's 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:23.720 okay too. You know why it's okay because being shit 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:25.840 is part of the human experience. Doesn't mean you're broken 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:28.560 or weird or bad. It means you're just a human 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:33.440 having a day. Bobby has shit days, Bobby has good days. 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:36.879 Bobby has amazing days because Bobby, like you and me, 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:41.680 is a weirdo and also one hundred human. What's your 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:43.680 day today? Mate? Is it? Where is it on the 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:46.519 scale between shit and amazing? If shit is one and 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:49.240 amazing as ten, what's your number being today? 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:53.280 I feel like it's a solid five? Actually, okay? 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:55.720 What made it a five? What would have made it 0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:56.040 an eight? 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:01.000 H good questions both. I think I was doing a 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:04.479 lot of reflection on a seminar that they gave last night, 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:07.800 and I was like, okay, so let's review this, Let's 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:10.039 see what happened, what went well, what could have been 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:13.480 a lot better? There's a lot in the a lot 0:01:13.560 --> 0:01:16.600 better category. So I think I've been going over that 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:21.640 in my mind consistently. I taught today out of school 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:24.960 that that went well, had fun. I was able to 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:27.880 pick up my new pair of glasses, So yeah, those 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:29.960 things are going well. It's just a matter of just 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:34.880 you knowing. Nothing markedly spectacular happened today. Nothing tragic happened today, 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:42.400 and overall it was it was productive, but nothing unusually exciting. 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:46.399 What's the space between self evaluation? Because I feel like 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:50.320 self evaluation is can be a good thing, because I 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:55.400 guess self evaluation, self awareness a first cousins and the 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:58.320 horrible cousin we don't want is fucking self loathing. But 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:03.480 what's the what's the space between self awareness, self evaluation, 0:02:03.680 --> 0:02:08.960 self efficacy, and then I'm an idiot, I fucking hate myself. 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:10.800 I did a terrible job. I'm no good at this. 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:14.440 They hate me. How do you kind of play in 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:17.880 those places like what's your how do you how do 0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:21.440 you objectively or as objectively as you can assess your 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:22.320 own performance. 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:27.440 I think time is one thing when you do it. 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:31.200 I try to avoid doing that right after you give 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:34.400 a talk or right after you perform, because, first of all, 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:37.680 you're too proximal to it. You haven't had enough distance. 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:41.000 It's kind of like if you're hiking, when you get 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:43.200 a little bit of a distance from the landscape, you 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:45.880 can see it more clearly. You know, if you if 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:48.480 you're sitting there staring at the forest when you're in it, 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:50.120 you're probably not going to see it from the same 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:53.520 vantage point. So a little bit of distancing helps, and 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:55.720 it also allows you to be a little bit less 0:02:55.760 --> 0:03:00.680 emotionally attached. And when you're going through things, what's your 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:03.600 level of emotion? And I think when you have a 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:08.679 high level of emotional provocation, you're probably not looking at 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:13.160 things through a lens of objectivity. And also, you know 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:18.560 we've discussed this in past episodes, how balanced is your feedback? 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:21.440 If it's like I am amazing, I am the best 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:25.160 presenter that these people have ever seen, most likely you're not. 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:28.640 If I'm the worst presenter these people have ever seen, 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:32.359 most likely you're not. That's a story in your own head. 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:35.960 I don't think that reflects the audience's experience, and then 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:39.920 it's balancing. So there there's reflection and then there's review. 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:45.600 So reflection is what is my interpretation of what really 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:49.360 went well and what could be better? What's my interpretation 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:54.560 of past performance that was good versus current performance? Where 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:57.360 were the gaps? Review is when you pull out the 0:03:57.400 --> 0:04:01.360 surveys and you read the audience's feedback reviewers. When you 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:06.240 have peers and colleagues, you could say, okay, these are 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:08.880 the three questions I asked myself. Let me present these 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:13.000 questions to you. Give me your version. So how aligned 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:16.200 is your reflection with the review that you're getting from 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:19.880 your audience as well as from your peers. So if 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:22.359 it's completely different, something might be off. 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:27.240 So let's extrapolate. Remember most of our listeners are not speakers, right, 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:30.800 so let's but it's I love that insight, but let's 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:33.880 try and extrapolate this idea of self awareness, self reflection 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:40.080 and out of that doing better, thinking better, performing better 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:44.479 for people who don't have any external feedback like you 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:47.279 and I listeners. You may or may not know this, 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:53.280 but quite often, very often there's literally individual feedback from 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:57.039 participants or audience members, and you get sent that or 0:04:57.040 --> 0:05:00.279 you get a kind of a collective review by who whoever, 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:04.200 whoever organized you to go and talk. So there's that, 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:06.839 and that gives you a level of perspective and objectivity 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:10.279 that you can't have because you're you. But for those 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:11.880 of us who are on the I want to do 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:16.640 better and think better and create better outcomes journey, how 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:19.680 do they use this kind of self awareness and self 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:24.760 reflection and self regulation when they don't have that feedback 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:29.400 from others? How do we lean into this? Do we 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:34.560 create our own criteria or objective targets or something so like, 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:36.600 I know I'm going to do X, y Z today 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:39.320 and if I don't, well, that's just a clear outcome 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:42.400 based on a clear goal. Like how do we do 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:44.240 this for people who aren't you and me? 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:47.000 I mean, I think that's a little bit more objective. 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:50.160 I'm going to lean into the analogies around communication because 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:52.960 you may not stand on the stage speaking of public 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:56.039 but I think one of the most powerful influences in 0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:59.240 the quality and trajectory of your life is communication. And 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:03.400 we are all communication specialists. I mean, even if you're unemployed, 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:05.080 it doesn't matter what you do for you could be 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:08.599 between jobs, if you speak to anyone, you've got mates, 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:12.800 you've got family members, communication is absolutely critical. And you 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:16.880 know you're right. I'm just having this conversation today with 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:20.400 one of my clients around. We don't get we don't 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:23.760 get feedback. A lot of times you could go throughout 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:27.440 your entire life and have something about the way you 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:31.320 communicate being detrimental. Yeah, And people a lot of times 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:34.440 will not tell you, like they'll just disappear, or they 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:37.960 may not you know, they may not come around as much, 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:40.960 but they never tell you, Hey, this is this is 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:45.240 the impact that you're having on me through our communication. 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:47.280 So a lot of times we don't know. So how 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:52.640 do you source that out being the only lens that 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:57.200 you're looking through? And I think it comes down to reflection, 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:00.719 not just reflection on Okay, I just had a conversation 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:03.880 with Craig. How did that go? Like what was my 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:07.840 intention in that conversation? And like, what's my assessment of 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:10.960 how well I met that intention? And where's the evidence 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:13.800 for that? But I'm talking about reflections that you're offering. 0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:20.160 So if you're in a conversation, are you able to capture, reflect, 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:24.040 and encapsulate the essence of what somebody's saying, and a 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:27.800 lot of times when you do that effectively, you'll either 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:32.160 get an affirmative well yeah, or sometimes the person will 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:36.520 be shocked. It's almost it's almost the emotion of surprise, 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:42.120 like yeah, oh, yes, yes, that's what I mean, Yes, 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:46.120 that's what I'm saying, And it's just they've probably had 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:50.280 this conversation with multiple people or expressed whatever they're expressing, 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:52.520 but the way you held a mirror up to it 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:54.680 allowed them to see a reflection of what they were 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:59.000 saying with greater clarity, or maybe you tilted that mirror 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:02.320 in the world that you utilized and they were able 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:04.800 to see something from a different vantage point. It's the 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:06.560 same thing they've been looking at, but you tilt that 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:08.840 mirror and it looks very different, and all of a sudden, 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:12.880 it's like they've made a breakthrough on their own idea 0:08:13.360 --> 0:08:16.560 that they're communicating. If you're doing something like that in 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:22.200 the conversation, that's a fairly good metric that you're in 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:25.960 resonance with this person, that you're effectively able to listen 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:31.440 to that individual and be able to give them something 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:37.640 that expands their understanding conceptually about what they're trying to express, 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:42.040 especially if it moves the conversation forward in a way 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:46.240 with like yeah, oh and they just got an idea 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:50.120 or they just got a tag on that point that 0:08:50.200 --> 0:08:53.439 they never would have had if you didn't offer that reflection. 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:55.520 I think those are some good metrics. 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:57.679 Yeah, no, I love all of that. Okay, So I'm 0:08:57.679 --> 0:08:59.559 going to apply the Devil's advocate a little bit here, 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:02.400 because I mean, there have been many times in my 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:08.920 life as a boss, as a lecturer, as a presenter, 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:13.040 as a coach, as a mentor, as you know, a 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:17.080 corporate speaker, as whatever, as an excise scientist, as a 0:09:17.120 --> 0:09:22.000 high performance coach with teams, where I've had the opportunity 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:25.720 to or there's definitely been a need for somebody, it 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:29.400 like an understandable need or an obvious need for somebody 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:33.640 to receive some feedback. But also the question is often 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:37.079 well do they want the feedback? It like, if I've 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:40.319 got the most accurate, insightful feedback for them based on 0:09:40.480 --> 0:09:43.920 the impact they're creating on others or themselves or their 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:47.719 own performance, but they're not open to receive the feedback, 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:51.040 which is often the case, especially if it's processed or 0:09:51.080 --> 0:09:56.440 perceived as criticism. Hateful and hurtful rather than positive and productive. 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:01.000 Because people, whatever you say, whatever you your intention is 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:04.800 not their experience. So your intention might be, hey, I 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:07.120 know how I can help you, and I want to 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:11.040 help you. So here here's my feedback. And my intention 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:13.120 is good. I'm a good human, I like you. I 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:16.640 actually want you to succeed. So here comes my well 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:20.720 intended advice feedback. But blah blah, guess what old mate 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:23.360 gets cracks the shits. Old mate doesn't talk to you 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:27.679 anymore because your good intention was his hurtful comment or 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:31.880 her hurtful comment. So there's this there's this two way 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:35.600 kind of component to this, where we've got to anticipate 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:39.280 how they think or how they are in this moment. 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:41.120 We've got to read the room. We've got to try 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:43.680 and have a look through their window to figure out 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:47.319 how do what one do? I give feedback even though 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:51.120 you know, like I'll give you an example, clear example, 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:53.520 my dad thinks a certain way, right, there are certain 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:55.840 conversations that I could have with my dad that would 0:10:55.880 --> 0:11:00.719 be true and very perhaps valuable and in normative over 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:03.000 the years anyway a little bit different these days, but 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:07.319 where I could have helped my dad with certain things unequivocally, 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:11.200 but my dad just didn't want feedback. He'd like, he 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:15.480 did not want anyone to anyway it. But even though 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:17.840 my intentions were good, even though I had the knowledge, 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:20.400 even though I had the understanding, and even though I 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:23.480 loved him and wanted to support and help him, there 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:25.200 will be times when I would give my dad some 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:28.880 feedback or advice that he definitely didn't want, despite the 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:31.400 fact that it was coming from a good place, and 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:35.920 it actually created more problems than solutions. So I think 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:38.520 there's that, and I don't need an answer from you, 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:43.040 but it's just there's that. Yeah, it's easier said than done, 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:47.880 as is fucking everything in behavioral psychology and you know, 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:51.920 communication and performance anyway. But I think that's something that 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:55.600 we all need to navigate. And yeah, you've been given feedback. 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:58.120 I'm sure you didn't like. I've been given feedback I 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:03.480 didn't like and me but you know, sometimes in hindsight, 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:06.160 I'm like, no, I still think they're wrong. But sometimes 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:09.960 in hindsight, I'm like, yeah, no, that's I didn't My 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:12.839 ego definitely didn't like that. My self esteem and self 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:16.120 worth didn't like that. But when I try to turn 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:20.560 down the emotion. Yeah, they're actually right. So it's pretty complicated. 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:23.280 Well, let's go back to what you were saying. It 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:28.920 all communication is complicated. Human beings, by our nature are complicated. 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:34.600 So you and your dad are having a conversation, and 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:37.719 let's go off of the assumption from what you said 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:40.439 that you know your well meaning and he knows your 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:44.400 well meaning. But when you deliver the feedback, Nope, that's 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:45.120 not the case. 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:48.640 No, no, yeah. 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:51.960 Don't trust to your knowledge or your intention? Which one 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:52.200 is it? 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:52.480 Like? 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:53.520 Is it because you're a son. 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:57.600 What I'm saying is there are some like my dad 0:12:57.760 --> 0:13:01.640 does not want advice from me, and that's cool. It's 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:04.600 a little bit different now because he's old and pretty fragile, right, 0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:07.160 it's a little it's that that dynamic and that kind 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:11.200 of I don't know that energy has shifted. But for 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:15.319 the vast majority of our relationship, I couldn't tell my 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:18.920 dad anything, Like my dad didn't want me to teach 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:20.319 him or tell him anything. 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:24.040 So perspective does not hold more weight than his own 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:26.200 for whatever reason. That could be a lot of reasons. 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:29.160 This could be correct. You know, I change your nappies. 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:31.559 What could you possibly tell me right who it could 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:35.960 be stubbornness. For whatever reason, it is his own internal 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:42.079 autonomous voice. Yeah, carries more weight than yours, even if, 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:44.199 even if this is something that you have a lot 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:47.840 more experience than he does with hmm, yeah, I think 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:53.120 that's common. That is that outlines a basic truth about 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:58.080 most people. See. I believe that sometimes coming at someone 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:00.440 directly with look, here's what I saw is what you 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:03.160 need to do, that's the perfect thing that needs to 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:06.319 be done, the vast majority of the time that doesn't work. 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:10.800 And even if it works in the moment, I'm the 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:16.319 other person is not arriving at conclusions that elevate elevate 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:21.720 their confidence and capacity, so it might not have sustainable 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:24.640 impact on them. So let let's let me give you 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:28.200 an example from something I know nothing about basketball. Right. 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:33.360 Let's say I'm out there and you know, I'm I'm 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:36.240 doing one on one basketball, and me and my friend 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:40.320 were trying to really get good at basketball, because yeah, 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:41.960 we want to be good at basketball. 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:45.880 This is a great analogy. I'm fucking I'm picturing you 0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:47.800 on a basketball court, right. 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:51.240 It's it's hilarious. Anyone who's ever seen me not to 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:53.400 mention knows me or listen to me. Just the sight 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:58.040 of me would tell you why this is an absurd scenario. 0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:04.720 But Fred goesad shoots missus by a mile. Now I 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:10.239 could say, now, remember in practice where we practiced releasing 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:14.000 the ball just a little bit early. Well, here's what. 0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:14.520 You need to do. 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:20.160 Yeah, right now? What if what if he doesn't take 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:23.160 that on? No, I did exactly what we needed to do, 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:27.840 and it's just I just missed the shot versus Wow. Okay, 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:32.040 so what do you what do you think just happened there? 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:35.800 Like you came all the way down the court. You 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:38.280 know your layups have been like really great all game? 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:41.320 What do you think is really going well? And what 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:43.800 what do you think missed there? It's just a question. 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:48.280 A lot of times that person will have insights and 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:52.240 even if it comes down to, okay, here's here's a 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:56.080 here's a tip that might help you make that basket 0:15:56.160 --> 0:16:00.560 next time. It's built on conclusions and insight that that 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:04.880 person has arrived at. It hasn't violated their knowledge, it 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:08.240 hasn't violated their identity. Let's say my friend's identity is 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:11.040 I'm an amazing basketball player. So when you correct me, 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:13.600 you're not correcting my basketball game, right. You could correct 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:15.920 me because I don't give a toss about how good 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:18.600 of a basketball player I am compared to my friend. 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:21.280 For me, I want to get better because I like 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:23.960 playing basketball at my mates. So for me, it's a 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:27.160 social interaction, it's exercise. It to my mates. That's why 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:30.240 I really want to improve. For this person, they consider 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:35.560 themselves a competent basketball player. If I respect that autonomy, 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:39.440 if I respect their competence, if I respect their identity 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:41.600 and ask a series of questions, they arrive at their 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:45.000 own conclusions. One they might figure out what happened too. 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:46.920 Even if I say, hey, I think you might have 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:50.240 do you think you might have released that ball a 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:53.480 little bit too late, It's going to land very differently 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:57.440 than if I just gave it unsolicited advice or even 0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:02.200 solicited advice. If it can flict with someone's internal perspective 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:07.040 for some reason. Now the reason has a strong influence 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:09.960 on the response, but it really doesn't matter. If there's 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:14.080 a conflict. If you have two opposing frames, those frames 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:16.720 are going to collide more of the time rather than 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:21.120 seamlessly coincide. If that, If that makes sense. 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:25.120 I've told this story probably twice in two thousand episodes, 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:28.480 but I'll tell it again. So I was in Sydney 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:29.879 a couple of years ago when I was doing a 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:33.159 gig and I got up early in the morning and 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:35.320 I went to a gym down the road. I think 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:37.800 I was presenting at ten. And I was at the 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:41.720 gym at whatever stupid o'clock in the morning, and there 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:43.400 was a lady. It just happened to be a lady. 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:44.800 It could have been a dude, but it happened to 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:48.440 be a lady, and I didn't I didn't talk to 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:50.280 her because she was a lady. I talked to her 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:52.640 because I thought she was going to kill herself anyway. 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:58.320 She was doing an exercise and she was using a 0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:05.159 relatively relatively heavyweight with absolutely the worst possible form, And 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:07.600 it was not a matter of whether or not she 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:09.880 might injure herself, it was just a matter of when, 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:13.800 Like if she continued to do that that way, I've 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:17.200 got absolutely zero doubt. And it's not many things I'm 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:21.280 an expert at, but writing programs and prescribing exercise and 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:25.560 watching people exercise and correcting form, it's maybe the only 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:29.280 thing I'm actually an expert at right, and I watched 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:33.400 her and I thought, anyway, I just said, I went 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:35.560 up and I thought I knew it. I was a 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:40.200 fraught with danger exercise and yeah, I just said, hey, 0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:45.040 could I just share something with you? And she basically 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:48.920 told me to fuck off? And I'm like, okay, and look, 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:53.000 I understand the response, like what she sees a buffed 0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:56.280 male with a shaved head in a single blah blah blah. 0:18:56.720 --> 0:18:59.760 Who's like, but here's the funny thing. I got the 0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:03.120 you know, I don't at all like this. I've got 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:06.439 no criticism of her at all. But I could have 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:11.280 literally spent sixty seconds with her and helped her immeasurably 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:20.160 and potentially saved her from an injury. And but in hindsight, 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:22.960 I go, well, as it turned out, I would have 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:25.199 been better off not to ask her and not to 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:30.080 try and help her. Like I often think that, you know, 0:19:30.240 --> 0:19:34.440 bad intentions or sorry, good intentions can produce bad outcomes, 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:39.320 and so it's like it's like, you need Craig, you 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:42.760 need situational awareness, you need social intelligence, you need to 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:45.560 read the room. And I knew going in I thought this, 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:48.200 this might not work, this might not and I didn't 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:50.920 want anything from her. I didn't you know. It was 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:53.719 literally fucking six thirty in the morning or whatever it was. 0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:58.560 And yeah, and I came away from that thinking not, 0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:01.640 you know, not what a cow or none, no, none 0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:03.959 of that. It's like I thought, yeah, I get it. 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:06.840 You don't know me and I'm just some dude in 0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:09.560 the gym, and I totally yeah. But it's over the years, 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:15.000 I've very rarely do I give people advice or any 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:19.159 kind of input or feedback that they haven't sought. I 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:24.880 just think it's a dangerous proposition. I mean, yeah, I mean, 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:28.080 if I see someone who's in absolute palms, way would 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:32.159 I do that? Again, I don't know, probably not, but 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:34.960 you know, obviously if somebody's about to get run over 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:37.600 by a car, it's a different thing. But but yeah, 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:40.640 I don't know how we navigate that because you it's 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:42.959 like you have a certain level of knowledge and expertise 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:47.080 and experience that is really valuable to people. And it's 0:20:47.160 --> 0:20:49.520 like there are times when you could share some of 0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:53.399 your knowledge or inside or wisdom or skill and you 0:20:53.480 --> 0:20:57.720 might save someone six months of pain, or you might 0:20:57.760 --> 0:20:59.520 be able to help them achieve in a week. What 0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:03.119 would it taken them a year if they might. But 0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:06.080 at the same time, you might also open that door 0:21:06.160 --> 0:21:09.280 and they just think you're an arrogant, egotistical, self righteous 0:21:09.320 --> 0:21:13.760 dick who thinks who thinks he's better than people. So 0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:21.000 that that's why I think it's so much about situational awareness, perception, 0:21:22.119 --> 0:21:26.720 you know, theory of mind, understanding how other people think, like, 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:29.959 you know, being a bit instinctive, a bit intuitive, and 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:32.480 then you know, go from there. 0:21:33.200 --> 0:21:35.520 What I really like about a lot of films lately 0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:36.720 is they'll do this. 0:21:37.440 --> 0:21:40.159 That wasn't the sentence I expected. Yep, go on. 0:21:41.640 --> 0:21:46.080 You're you're seeing the entire story from the perspective of 0:21:46.080 --> 0:21:48.800 one of the main characters, and you're like, Okay, I 0:21:48.880 --> 0:21:52.720 know exactly what's going on right now. I get this. 0:21:53.760 --> 0:21:57.639 And then midway through there'll be flashbacks and you start 0:21:57.680 --> 0:22:01.119 seeing the story from the perspective of the villain or 0:22:01.160 --> 0:22:04.160 another main character, and it's not the same at all. 0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:07.240 Turns out you didn't really know anything because you would 0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:10.040 get in the story from one frame. So I think 0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:12.480 when that happens, it's it's not a matter of what 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:15.199 people need, it's a matter of what they're open to, 0:22:15.720 --> 0:22:19.160 what they're ready for and what they want need is 0:22:19.160 --> 0:22:24.000 is irrelevant. Now you understand that you've owned gyms, you 0:22:24.160 --> 0:22:28.560 understand that you have trained trainers, You understand that there 0:22:28.640 --> 0:22:33.280 are probably literally tens of thousands of people that seek 0:22:33.320 --> 0:22:37.360 your advice out in terms of your expertise as a 0:22:37.400 --> 0:22:41.520 physiologist and practical application as a guy who's been training 0:22:41.520 --> 0:22:45.240 for a few decades. She knows none of that, So 0:22:45.920 --> 0:22:48.600 she might have perceived threat, and by threat not like, 0:22:48.640 --> 0:22:51.280 oh this guy's dangerous, is in a like beat me 0:22:51.400 --> 0:22:54.520 with a you know, two kilo plate or something like that, 0:22:55.760 --> 0:22:58.320 But yeah, what does this guy know? Or maybe she 0:22:58.359 --> 0:23:01.840 had a really bad experience with someone who was either 0:23:01.880 --> 0:23:04.280 trying to pick her up or just thought they knew 0:23:04.280 --> 0:23:06.280 everything and they were just like you said, trying to 0:23:06.280 --> 0:23:09.920 be arrogant. There's so many there's so many great examples 0:23:10.000 --> 0:23:13.480 from the gym. So when I was a trainer, this 0:23:13.640 --> 0:23:18.360 is going back Man Gold's Jim Brooklyn, and I don't 0:23:18.359 --> 0:23:21.840 even think I was twenty years old, or maybe I 0:23:21.920 --> 0:23:24.200 was exactly twenty years old, and I went up to 0:23:24.280 --> 0:23:27.960 this lady who was doing something that maybe not then 0:23:28.040 --> 0:23:30.399 in there. It's not like both of her arms are 0:23:30.400 --> 0:23:33.080 gonna rip out of the sockets. Blood's gonna be squirting 0:23:33.160 --> 0:23:37.040 out of her stumps as she runs through the gym maimed. 0:23:37.960 --> 0:23:40.879