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Speaker 1: Good to him. I hope you're Tori. If you're welcome

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Speaker 1: another installment of the show. It's jumbo. It taps wherever

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Speaker 1: you are, whatever you're doing, we hope you are okay,

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Speaker 1: somewhere between okay and fantastic. Let's let's set the bar

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Speaker 1: low so we're not putting too much pressure on you.

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Speaker 1: Okay would be fine, Fantastic would be awesome. But also

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Speaker 1: some of you are going to be shit, and that's

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Speaker 1: okay too. You know why it's okay because being shit

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Speaker 1: is part of the human experience. Doesn't mean you're broken

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Speaker 1: or weird or bad. It means you're just a human

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Speaker 1: having a day. Bobby has shit days, Bobby has good days.

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Speaker 1: Bobby has amazing days because Bobby, like you and me,

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Speaker 1: is a weirdo and also one hundred human. What's your

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Speaker 1: day today? Mate? Is it? Where is it on the

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Speaker 1: scale between shit and amazing? If shit is one and

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Speaker 1: amazing as ten, what's your number being today?

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Speaker 2: I feel like it's a solid five? Actually, okay?

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Speaker 1: What made it a five? What would have made it

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Speaker 1: an eight?

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Speaker 2: H good questions both. I think I was doing a

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Speaker 2: lot of reflection on a seminar that they gave last night,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, okay, so let's review this, Let's

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Speaker 2: see what happened, what went well, what could have been

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Speaker 2: a lot better? There's a lot in the a lot

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Speaker 2: better category. So I think I've been going over that

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Speaker 2: in my mind consistently. I taught today out of school

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Speaker 2: that that went well, had fun. I was able to

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Speaker 2: pick up my new pair of glasses, So yeah, those

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Speaker 2: things are going well. It's just a matter of just

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Speaker 2: you knowing. Nothing markedly spectacular happened today. Nothing tragic happened today,

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Speaker 2: and overall it was it was productive, but nothing unusually exciting.

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Speaker 1: What's the space between self evaluation? Because I feel like

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Speaker 1: self evaluation is can be a good thing, because I

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Speaker 1: guess self evaluation, self awareness a first cousins and the

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Speaker 1: horrible cousin we don't want is fucking self loathing. But

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Speaker 1: what's the what's the space between self awareness, self evaluation,

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Speaker 1: self efficacy, and then I'm an idiot, I fucking hate myself.

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Speaker 1: I did a terrible job. I'm no good at this.

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Speaker 1: They hate me. How do you kind of play in

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Speaker 1: those places like what's your how do you how do

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Speaker 1: you objectively or as objectively as you can assess your

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Speaker 1: own performance.

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Speaker 2: I think time is one thing when you do it.

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Speaker 2: I try to avoid doing that right after you give

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Speaker 2: a talk or right after you perform, because, first of all,

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Speaker 2: you're too proximal to it. You haven't had enough distance.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of like if you're hiking, when you get

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Speaker 2: a little bit of a distance from the landscape, you

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Speaker 2: can see it more clearly. You know, if you if

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Speaker 2: you're sitting there staring at the forest when you're in it,

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Speaker 2: you're probably not going to see it from the same

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Speaker 2: vantage point. So a little bit of distancing helps, and

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Speaker 2: it also allows you to be a little bit less

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Speaker 2: emotionally attached. And when you're going through things, what's your

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Speaker 2: level of emotion? And I think when you have a

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Speaker 2: high level of emotional provocation, you're probably not looking at

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Speaker 2: things through a lens of objectivity. And also, you know

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Speaker 2: we've discussed this in past episodes, how balanced is your feedback?

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Speaker 2: If it's like I am amazing, I am the best

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Speaker 2: presenter that these people have ever seen, most likely you're not.

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Speaker 2: If I'm the worst presenter these people have ever seen,

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Speaker 2: most likely you're not. That's a story in your own head.

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Speaker 2: I don't think that reflects the audience's experience, and then

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Speaker 2: it's balancing. So there there's reflection and then there's review.

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Speaker 2: So reflection is what is my interpretation of what really

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Speaker 2: went well and what could be better? What's my interpretation

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Speaker 2: of past performance that was good versus current performance? Where

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Speaker 2: were the gaps? Review is when you pull out the

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Speaker 2: surveys and you read the audience's feedback reviewers. When you

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Speaker 2: have peers and colleagues, you could say, okay, these are

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Speaker 2: the three questions I asked myself. Let me present these

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Speaker 2: questions to you. Give me your version. So how aligned

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Speaker 2: is your reflection with the review that you're getting from

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Speaker 2: your audience as well as from your peers. So if

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Speaker 2: it's completely different, something might be off.

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Speaker 1: So let's extrapolate. Remember most of our listeners are not speakers, right,

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Speaker 1: so let's but it's I love that insight, but let's

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Speaker 1: try and extrapolate this idea of self awareness, self reflection

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Speaker 1: and out of that doing better, thinking better, performing better

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Speaker 1: for people who don't have any external feedback like you

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Speaker 1: and I listeners. You may or may not know this,

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Speaker 1: but quite often, very often there's literally individual feedback from

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Speaker 1: participants or audience members, and you get sent that or

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Speaker 1: you get a kind of a collective review by who whoever,

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Speaker 1: whoever organized you to go and talk. So there's that,

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Speaker 1: and that gives you a level of perspective and objectivity

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Speaker 1: that you can't have because you're you. But for those

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Speaker 1: of us who are on the I want to do

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Speaker 1: better and think better and create better outcomes journey, how

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Speaker 1: do they use this kind of self awareness and self

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Speaker 1: reflection and self regulation when they don't have that feedback

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Speaker 1: from others? How do we lean into this? Do we

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Speaker 1: create our own criteria or objective targets or something so like,

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Speaker 1: I know I'm going to do X, y Z today

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Speaker 1: and if I don't, well, that's just a clear outcome

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Speaker 1: based on a clear goal. Like how do we do

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Speaker 1: this for people who aren't you and me?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think that's a little bit more objective.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to lean into the analogies around communication because

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Speaker 2: you may not stand on the stage speaking of public

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Speaker 2: but I think one of the most powerful influences in

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Speaker 2: the quality and trajectory of your life is communication. And

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Speaker 2: we are all communication specialists. I mean, even if you're unemployed,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't matter what you do for you could be

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Speaker 2: between jobs, if you speak to anyone, you've got mates,

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Speaker 2: you've got family members, communication is absolutely critical. And you

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Speaker 2: know you're right. I'm just having this conversation today with

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Speaker 2: one of my clients around. We don't get we don't

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Speaker 2: get feedback. A lot of times you could go throughout

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Speaker 2: your entire life and have something about the way you

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Speaker 2: communicate being detrimental. Yeah, And people a lot of times

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Speaker 2: will not tell you, like they'll just disappear, or they

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Speaker 2: may not you know, they may not come around as much,

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Speaker 2: but they never tell you, Hey, this is this is

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Speaker 2: the impact that you're having on me through our communication.

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Speaker 2: So a lot of times we don't know. So how

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Speaker 2: do you source that out being the only lens that

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Speaker 2: you're looking through? And I think it comes down to reflection,

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Speaker 2: not just reflection on Okay, I just had a conversation

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Speaker 2: with Craig. How did that go? Like what was my

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Speaker 2: intention in that conversation? And like, what's my assessment of

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Speaker 2: how well I met that intention? And where's the evidence

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Speaker 2: for that? But I'm talking about reflections that you're offering.

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Speaker 2: So if you're in a conversation, are you able to capture, reflect,

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Speaker 2: and encapsulate the essence of what somebody's saying, and a

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Speaker 2: lot of times when you do that effectively, you'll either

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Speaker 2: get an affirmative well yeah, or sometimes the person will

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Speaker 2: be shocked. It's almost it's almost the emotion of surprise,

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Speaker 2: like yeah, oh, yes, yes, that's what I mean, Yes,

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Speaker 2: that's what I'm saying, And it's just they've probably had

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Speaker 2: this conversation with multiple people or expressed whatever they're expressing,

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Speaker 2: but the way you held a mirror up to it

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Speaker 2: allowed them to see a reflection of what they were

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Speaker 2: saying with greater clarity, or maybe you tilted that mirror

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Speaker 2: in the world that you utilized and they were able

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Speaker 2: to see something from a different vantage point. It's the

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Speaker 2: same thing they've been looking at, but you tilt that

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Speaker 2: mirror and it looks very different, and all of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: it's like they've made a breakthrough on their own idea

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Speaker 2: that they're communicating. If you're doing something like that in

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Speaker 2: the conversation, that's a fairly good metric that you're in

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Speaker 2: resonance with this person, that you're effectively able to listen

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Speaker 2: to that individual and be able to give them something

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Speaker 2: that expands their understanding conceptually about what they're trying to express,

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Speaker 2: especially if it moves the conversation forward in a way

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Speaker 2: with like yeah, oh and they just got an idea

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Speaker 2: or they just got a tag on that point that

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Speaker 2: they never would have had if you didn't offer that reflection.

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Speaker 2: I think those are some good metrics.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I love all of that. Okay, So I'm

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Speaker 1: going to apply the Devil's advocate a little bit here,

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Speaker 1: because I mean, there have been many times in my

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Speaker 1: life as a boss, as a lecturer, as a presenter,

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Speaker 1: as a coach, as a mentor, as you know, a

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Speaker 1: corporate speaker, as whatever, as an excise scientist, as a

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Speaker 1: high performance coach with teams, where I've had the opportunity

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Speaker 1: to or there's definitely been a need for somebody, it

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Speaker 1: like an understandable need or an obvious need for somebody

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Speaker 1: to receive some feedback. But also the question is often

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Speaker 1: well do they want the feedback? It like, if I've

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Speaker 1: got the most accurate, insightful feedback for them based on

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Speaker 1: the impact they're creating on others or themselves or their

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Speaker 1: own performance, but they're not open to receive the feedback,

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Speaker 1: which is often the case, especially if it's processed or

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Speaker 1: perceived as criticism. Hateful and hurtful rather than positive and productive.

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Speaker 1: Because people, whatever you say, whatever you your intention is

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Speaker 1: not their experience. So your intention might be, hey, I

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Speaker 1: know how I can help you, and I want to

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Speaker 1: help you. So here here's my feedback. And my intention

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Speaker 1: is good. I'm a good human, I like you. I

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Speaker 1: actually want you to succeed. So here comes my well

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Speaker 1: intended advice feedback. But blah blah, guess what old mate

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Speaker 1: gets cracks the shits. Old mate doesn't talk to you

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Speaker 1: anymore because your good intention was his hurtful comment or

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Speaker 1: her hurtful comment. So there's this there's this two way

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Speaker 1: kind of component to this, where we've got to anticipate

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Speaker 1: how they think or how they are in this moment.

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Speaker 1: We've got to read the room. We've got to try

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Speaker 1: and have a look through their window to figure out

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Speaker 1: how do what one do? I give feedback even though

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Speaker 1: you know, like I'll give you an example, clear example,

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Speaker 1: my dad thinks a certain way, right, there are certain

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Speaker 1: conversations that I could have with my dad that would

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Speaker 1: be true and very perhaps valuable and in normative over

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Speaker 1: the years anyway a little bit different these days, but

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Speaker 1: where I could have helped my dad with certain things unequivocally,

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Speaker 1: but my dad just didn't want feedback. He'd like, he

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Speaker 1: did not want anyone to anyway it. But even though

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Speaker 1: my intentions were good, even though I had the knowledge,

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Speaker 1: even though I had the understanding, and even though I

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Speaker 1: loved him and wanted to support and help him, there

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Speaker 1: will be times when I would give my dad some

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Speaker 1: feedback or advice that he definitely didn't want, despite the

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Speaker 1: fact that it was coming from a good place, and

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Speaker 1: it actually created more problems than solutions. So I think

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Speaker 1: there's that, and I don't need an answer from you,

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Speaker 1: but it's just there's that. Yeah, it's easier said than done,

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Speaker 1: as is fucking everything in behavioral psychology and you know,

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Speaker 1: communication and performance anyway. But I think that's something that

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Speaker 1: we all need to navigate. And yeah, you've been given feedback.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you didn't like. I've been given feedback I

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Speaker 1: didn't like and me but you know, sometimes in hindsight,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, no, I still think they're wrong. But sometimes

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Speaker 1: in hindsight, I'm like, yeah, no, that's I didn't My

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Speaker 1: ego definitely didn't like that. My self esteem and self

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Speaker 1: worth didn't like that. But when I try to turn

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Speaker 1: down the emotion. Yeah, they're actually right. So it's pretty complicated.

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Speaker 2: Well, let's go back to what you were saying. It

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Speaker 2: all communication is complicated. Human beings, by our nature are complicated.

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Speaker 2: So you and your dad are having a conversation, and

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Speaker 2: let's go off of the assumption from what you said

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Speaker 2: that you know your well meaning and he knows your

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Speaker 2: well meaning. But when you deliver the feedback, Nope, that's

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Speaker 2: not the case.

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Speaker 1: No, no, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Don't trust to your knowledge or your intention? Which one

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Speaker 2: is it?

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Speaker 1: Like?

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Speaker 2: Is it because you're a son.

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Speaker 1: What I'm saying is there are some like my dad

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Speaker 1: does not want advice from me, and that's cool. It's

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Speaker 1: a little bit different now because he's old and pretty fragile, right,

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Speaker 1: it's a little it's that that dynamic and that kind

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Speaker 1: of I don't know that energy has shifted. But for

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Speaker 1: the vast majority of our relationship, I couldn't tell my

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Speaker 1: dad anything, Like my dad didn't want me to teach

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Speaker 1: him or tell him anything.

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Speaker 2: So perspective does not hold more weight than his own

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Speaker 2: for whatever reason. That could be a lot of reasons.

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Speaker 2: This could be correct. You know, I change your nappies.

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Speaker 2: What could you possibly tell me right who it could

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Speaker 2: be stubbornness. For whatever reason, it is his own internal

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Speaker 2: autonomous voice. Yeah, carries more weight than yours, even if,

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Speaker 2: even if this is something that you have a lot

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Speaker 2: more experience than he does with hmm, yeah, I think

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Speaker 2: that's common. That is that outlines a basic truth about

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Speaker 2: most people. See. I believe that sometimes coming at someone

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Speaker 2: directly with look, here's what I saw is what you

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Speaker 2: need to do, that's the perfect thing that needs to

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Speaker 2: be done, the vast majority of the time that doesn't work.

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Speaker 2: And even if it works in the moment, I'm the

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Speaker 2: other person is not arriving at conclusions that elevate elevate

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Speaker 2: their confidence and capacity, so it might not have sustainable

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Speaker 2: impact on them. So let let's let me give you

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Speaker 2: an example from something I know nothing about basketball. Right.

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Speaker 2: Let's say I'm out there and you know, I'm I'm

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Speaker 2: doing one on one basketball, and me and my friend

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Speaker 2: were trying to really get good at basketball, because yeah,

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Speaker 2: we want to be good at basketball.

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Speaker 1: This is a great analogy. I'm fucking I'm picturing you

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Speaker 1: on a basketball court, right.

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Speaker 2: It's it's hilarious. Anyone who's ever seen me not to

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Speaker 2: mention knows me or listen to me. Just the sight

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Speaker 2: of me would tell you why this is an absurd scenario.

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Speaker 2: But Fred goesad shoots missus by a mile. Now I

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Speaker 2: could say, now, remember in practice where we practiced releasing

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Speaker 2: the ball just a little bit early. Well, here's what.

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Speaker 1: You need to do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right now? What if what if he doesn't take

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Speaker 2: that on? No, I did exactly what we needed to do,

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Speaker 2: and it's just I just missed the shot versus Wow. Okay,

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Speaker 2: so what do you what do you think just happened there?

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Speaker 2: Like you came all the way down the court. You

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Speaker 2: know your layups have been like really great all game?

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Speaker 2: What do you think is really going well? And what

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Speaker 2: what do you think missed there? It's just a question.

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Speaker 2: A lot of times that person will have insights and

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Speaker 2: even if it comes down to, okay, here's here's a

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Speaker 2: here's a tip that might help you make that basket

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Speaker 2: next time. It's built on conclusions and insight that that

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Speaker 2: person has arrived at. It hasn't violated their knowledge, it

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Speaker 2: hasn't violated their identity. Let's say my friend's identity is

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Speaker 2: I'm an amazing basketball player. So when you correct me,

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Speaker 2: you're not correcting my basketball game, right. You could correct

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Speaker 2: me because I don't give a toss about how good

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Speaker 2: of a basketball player I am compared to my friend.

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Speaker 2: For me, I want to get better because I like

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Speaker 2: playing basketball at my mates. So for me, it's a

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Speaker 2: social interaction, it's exercise. It to my mates. That's why

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Speaker 2: I really want to improve. For this person, they consider

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Speaker 2: themselves a competent basketball player. If I respect that autonomy,

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Speaker 2: if I respect their competence, if I respect their identity

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Speaker 2: and ask a series of questions, they arrive at their

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Speaker 2: own conclusions. One they might figure out what happened too.

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Speaker 2: Even if I say, hey, I think you might have

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Speaker 2: do you think you might have released that ball a

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Speaker 2: little bit too late, It's going to land very differently

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Speaker 2: than if I just gave it unsolicited advice or even

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Speaker 2: solicited advice. If it can flict with someone's internal perspective

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Speaker 2: for some reason. Now the reason has a strong influence

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Speaker 2: on the response, but it really doesn't matter. If there's

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Speaker 2: a conflict. If you have two opposing frames, those frames

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Speaker 2: are going to collide more of the time rather than

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Speaker 2: seamlessly coincide. If that, If that makes sense.

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Speaker 1: I've told this story probably twice in two thousand episodes,

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Speaker 1: but I'll tell it again. So I was in Sydney

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Speaker 1: a couple of years ago when I was doing a

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Speaker 1: gig and I got up early in the morning and

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Speaker 1: I went to a gym down the road. I think

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Speaker 1: I was presenting at ten. And I was at the

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Speaker 1: gym at whatever stupid o'clock in the morning, and there

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Speaker 1: was a lady. It just happened to be a lady.

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Speaker 1: It could have been a dude, but it happened to

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Speaker 1: be a lady, and I didn't I didn't talk to

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Speaker 1: her because she was a lady. I talked to her

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Speaker 1: because I thought she was going to kill herself anyway.

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Speaker 1: She was doing an exercise and she was using a

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Speaker 1: relatively relatively heavyweight with absolutely the worst possible form, And

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Speaker 1: it was not a matter of whether or not she

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Speaker 1: might injure herself, it was just a matter of when,

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Speaker 1: Like if she continued to do that that way, I've

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Speaker 1: got absolutely zero doubt. And it's not many things I'm

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Speaker 1: an expert at, but writing programs and prescribing exercise and

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Speaker 1: watching people exercise and correcting form, it's maybe the only

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Speaker 1: thing I'm actually an expert at right, and I watched

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Speaker 1: her and I thought, anyway, I just said, I went

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Speaker 1: up and I thought I knew it. I was a

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Speaker 1: fraught with danger exercise and yeah, I just said, hey,

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Speaker 1: could I just share something with you? And she basically

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Speaker 1: told me to fuck off? And I'm like, okay, and look,

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Speaker 1: I understand the response, like what she sees a buffed

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Speaker 1: male with a shaved head in a single blah blah blah.

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Speaker 1: Who's like, but here's the funny thing. I got the

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't at all like this. I've got

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Speaker 1: no criticism of her at all. But I could have

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Speaker 1: literally spent sixty seconds with her and helped her immeasurably

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Speaker 1: and potentially saved her from an injury. And but in hindsight,

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Speaker 1: I go, well, as it turned out, I would have

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Speaker 1: been better off not to ask her and not to

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Speaker 1: try and help her. Like I often think that, you know,

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Speaker 1: bad intentions or sorry, good intentions can produce bad outcomes,

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Speaker 1: and so it's like it's like, you need Craig, you

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Speaker 1: need situational awareness, you need social intelligence, you need to

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Speaker 1: read the room. And I knew going in I thought this,

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Speaker 1: this might not work, this might not and I didn't

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Speaker 1: want anything from her. I didn't you know. It was

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Speaker 1: literally fucking six thirty in the morning or whatever it was.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, and I came away from that thinking not,

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Speaker 1: you know, not what a cow or none, no, none

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Speaker 1: of that. It's like I thought, yeah, I get it.

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Speaker 1: You don't know me and I'm just some dude in

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Speaker 1: the gym, and I totally yeah. But it's over the years,

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Speaker 1: I've very rarely do I give people advice or any

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Speaker 1: kind of input or feedback that they haven't sought. I

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Speaker 1: just think it's a dangerous proposition. I mean, yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: if I see someone who's in absolute palms, way would

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Speaker 1: I do that? Again, I don't know, probably not, but

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Speaker 1: you know, obviously if somebody's about to get run over

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Speaker 1: by a car, it's a different thing. But but yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how we navigate that because you it's

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Speaker 1: like you have a certain level of knowledge and expertise

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Speaker 1: and experience that is really valuable to people. And it's

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Speaker 1: like there are times when you could share some of

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Speaker 1: your knowledge or inside or wisdom or skill and you

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Speaker 1: might save someone six months of pain, or you might

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Speaker 1: be able to help them achieve in a week. What

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Speaker 1: would it taken them a year if they might. But

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Speaker 1: at the same time, you might also open that door

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Speaker 1: and they just think you're an arrogant, egotistical, self righteous

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Speaker 1: dick who thinks who thinks he's better than people. So

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Speaker 1: that that's why I think it's so much about situational awareness, perception,

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Speaker 1: you know, theory of mind, understanding how other people think, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, being a bit instinctive, a bit intuitive, and

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Speaker 1: then you know, go from there.

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Speaker 2: What I really like about a lot of films lately

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Speaker 2: is they'll do this.

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Speaker 1: That wasn't the sentence I expected. Yep, go on.

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Speaker 2: You're you're seeing the entire story from the perspective of

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Speaker 2: one of the main characters, and you're like, Okay, I

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Speaker 2: know exactly what's going on right now. I get this.

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Speaker 2: And then midway through there'll be flashbacks and you start

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Speaker 2: seeing the story from the perspective of the villain or

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Speaker 2: another main character, and it's not the same at all.

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Speaker 2: Turns out you didn't really know anything because you would

375
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Speaker 2: get in the story from one frame. So I think

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Speaker 2: when that happens, it's it's not a matter of what

377
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,199
Speaker 2: people need, it's a matter of what they're open to,

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Speaker 2: what they're ready for and what they want need is

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Speaker 2: is irrelevant. Now you understand that you've owned gyms, you

380
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:28,560
Speaker 2: understand that you have trained trainers, You understand that there

381
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Speaker 2: are probably literally tens of thousands of people that seek

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Speaker 2: your advice out in terms of your expertise as a

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Speaker 2: physiologist and practical application as a guy who's been training

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Speaker 2: for a few decades. She knows none of that, So

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Speaker 2: she might have perceived threat, and by threat not like,

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Speaker 2: oh this guy's dangerous, is in a like beat me

387
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Speaker 2: with a you know, two kilo plate or something like that,

388
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Speaker 2: But yeah, what does this guy know? Or maybe she

389
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Speaker 2: had a really bad experience with someone who was either

390
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Speaker 2: trying to pick her up or just thought they knew

391
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Speaker 2: everything and they were just like you said, trying to

392
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Speaker 2: be arrogant. There's so many there's so many great examples

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00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,480
Speaker 2: from the gym. So when I was a trainer, this

394
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:18,360
Speaker 2: is going back Man Gold's Jim Brooklyn, and I don't

395
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Speaker 2: even think I was twenty years old, or maybe I

396
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,200
Speaker 2: was exactly twenty years old, and I went up to

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Speaker 2: this lady who was doing something that maybe not then

398
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,399
Speaker 2: in there. It's not like both of her arms are

399
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Speaker 2: gonna rip out of the sockets. Blood's gonna be squirting

400
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 2: out of her stumps as she runs through the gym maimed.

401
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Speaker 2: Although that would make a really great, low budget, be

402
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Speaker 2: B level horror film, wouldn't it. But you could tell, yeah,

403
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Speaker 2: she's she's gonna endorse some pain and suffering if she

404
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:52,239
Speaker 2: keeps doing what she's doing in the way she's doing it,

405
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Speaker 2: with the level of motor control she's doing it. And

406
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Speaker 2: I had approached her and said something very my, hey,

407
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Speaker 2: do you mind if now? Her first response to me

408
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Speaker 2: was do you see that guy over there right? And

409
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,640
Speaker 2: she points to this guy who was enormous. Now at

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00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:13,119
Speaker 2: the time, I was nearly one hundred kilos lean. This

411
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 2: guy could have eaten me. He could have swallowed me whole.

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Speaker 2: He kind of looked like Godzilla and a wife beater.

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Speaker 2: And she's like, that's my husband. He showed me how,

414
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Speaker 2: he showed me how to do this. Wow, now, what

415
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:32,879
Speaker 2: does that statement mean to you? What did you just

416
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:34,160
Speaker 2: get out of that craig.

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Speaker 1: Mm fuck off? She's like, well, he definitely knows more

418
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Speaker 1: than you. Look at him. If he doesn't know, nobody knows,

419
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Speaker 1: look at his results. So I'm paying attention to him.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, who are you exactly? Yeah, you're

421
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 1: a weado away.

422
00:24:53,960 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 2: So she doesn't know that principles of biomechanics, physics, physiology

423
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:06,120
Speaker 2: operate outside of the level of mass of an individual.

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Speaker 2: You could be that you could be four hundred kilos

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00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:18,200
Speaker 2: at three percent body fat. It's not going to change

426
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,880
Speaker 2: the laws of the universe at all. Newtonian physics will

427
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 2: still operate here, physiology will still operate. I could I

428
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Speaker 2: could not even be able to describe what the inside

429
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Speaker 2: of a gym looks like. But I could be in

430
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 2: a lab studying human movement science. I might not understand

431
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 2: the practical application, but I still understand a lot more

432
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 2: than even that big guy in the gym. But it

433
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:50,159
Speaker 2: wasn't just that, it was she had an emotional investment

434
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 2: obviously with her husband. She not only she not only thought, well,

435
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 2: he knows what he's talking about. He's my husband. So

436
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 2: there's an emotional cane. There is no way I am

437
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 2: going to logically win that argument. I could give her

438
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 2: a three hour lesson in four singles and moment arms

439
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 2: and functional anatomy, it's not going to make a difference.

440
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 2: So what we were learning how to do because walking

441
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 2: the floor was the way that we drove revenue, and

442
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 2: for many years in the fitness industry, the primary way

443
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,399
Speaker 2: that a trainer had the greatest amount of autonomy to

444
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:33,360
Speaker 2: drive revenue was through walking the floor. You had more

445
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,920
Speaker 2: opportunity there than anywhere else. I think it's it's changed now.

446
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 2: But so the conversation I had with her was looking

447
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 2: at that guy. My first words out of my mouth,

448
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 2: and this was totally spontaneous, was holy shit, that's your husband.

449
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 2: Like the guy was impressively massive, like just just sheer

450
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:59,880
Speaker 2: body mass. It was remarkable. And I said to her, yeah,

451
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 2: I would not like if I would not question a

452
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:09,160
Speaker 2: guy that is able to develop his body to that degree.

453
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,120
Speaker 2: I said, can I ask you a couple of questions? Though?

454
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 2: How long has he been working out? How long did

455
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:20,439
Speaker 2: it take this guy to build himself up into that?

456
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 2: I said, because you know, I've been working out a while,

457
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 2: and you know, I, like I said, I was, I

458
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 2: was pretty big, pretty lean, I was on a lot

459
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,919
Speaker 2: of drugs, and I was like, I'm the way near

460
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 2: this guy. I need to know this right. She tells

461
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 2: me about all the decades he's been training. I was like, God,

462
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:40,199
Speaker 2: how many days a week? Does she train this? Who

463
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 2: always coming here? I'm going through all of these questions,

464
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 2: and I'm like, you know, it's really it's really cool

465
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 2: to him to help you out, Like I wish I

466
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 2: had someone like that invested in me, that can help

467
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 2: me out in the gym. When I was getting started,

468
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,160
Speaker 2: How long have you been training? Just very casual? She's

469
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 2: been training a couple of months, I said, can ask something.

470
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 2: Does it make sense that a guy who's been training

471
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 2: multiple decades, who has developed his body into like maybe

472
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 2: the top two percent of everybody with his goal in society,

473
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 2: and who's advanced as that, might have different goals and

474
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:20,159
Speaker 2: needs and levels of abilities versus someone who's just been

475
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 2: training for a few months. You know, does it make

476
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 2: sense that a downhill champion Olympic skier has very different

477
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 2: needs than someone who's been skiing for a few months.

478
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 1: Were you trying to get yourself killed? No?

479
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 2: I mean what I was doing?

480
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 1: What you doing? What are you doing? The appropriative response

481
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: was sure, okay, thank you, And then see, yeah, well,

482
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 1: well we'll ask me what happened, Hi, Bubby, what happened?

483
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: I said, Now, in the context of what he's telling you,

484
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 1: he's absolutely correct. Do you mind if I show you

485
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 1: a modification that might be useful as an alternative to

486
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 1: kind of.

487
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 2: Like meet you where you need to be met. That's it,

488
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 2: just something that might be something that you can execute

489
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 2: with greater confidence and effectiveness, just a small tweak. You

490
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 2: can accept it or not. Because I validated everything she said,

491
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 2: and because I packaged that entire narrative in a way

492
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,239
Speaker 2: that lined up with her thoughts, her belief systems, and

493
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 2: the narrative that was already running in her head, it

494
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 2: was much harder for her to tell me to piss

495
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 2: off because I sound just like she sounds in her

496
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 2: own mind. So that made me one not only more credible,

497
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 2: without even getting into any science whatsoever, it also made

498
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 2: me safer.

499
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: Huh.

500
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 2: What I used to tell trainers is and less like

501
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 2: in your case, unless you see somebody doing something and

502
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 2: you think they're going to hurt themselves. I'm not talking

503
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 2: about months from now, but it's imminent. Never ever approach

504
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 2: someone and give advice or a recommendation. Even if you

505
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 2: follow the training, you'll hear from a lot of speakers.

506
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 2: Oh excuse me, sir, you know I noticed you. Do

507
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 2: you mind if nope? That's not going to work or

508
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 2: what's your goal? Yeah, that's always real effective on the

509
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 2: gym floor. Never do anything like that. Just introduce yourself,

510
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 2: build a little bit of rapport, and then piss off.

511
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 2: You just drip on these people. And if you drip

512
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 2: on people in the way I'm telling you to drip

513
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 2: on them, I guarantee you ten percent of everybody you

514
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 2: talk to in this facility will be a client of

515
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 2: yours within a giving amount of time, depending on how

516
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 2: many people you're able to talk to per day. And

517
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 2: it's just the same thing. It's just giving advice versus

518
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 2: drawing somebody out and having them elicit the context of

519
00:30:58,680 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 2: the conversation.

520
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:07,719
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I think it still remains though that I

521
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: don't disagree with you, and that that is a good

522
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 1: story and you did do a good job, a better

523
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 1: job than me, it seems. But I still think people

524
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 1: don't like feedback unless it's glowing. It's like I think

525
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 1: the it just the fact remains that people don't want

526
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 1: they don't really want feedback unless it's positive, unless it's affirmation,

527
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: unless it's an endorsement, unless it's a form of praise.

528
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 1: You know, when you tell someone you know, even with

529
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: the most compassionate empathy and situational awareness and kindness and

530
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 1: all of that, but you tell them that they're doing

531
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: it poorly or badly or dangerously or you know, it's

532
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: like you're talking about that guy that has no awareness.

533
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: I think you's something. You know, some people who are

534
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 1: kind of socially annoying, How the fuck do you tell

535
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 1: them that? You know? It's like like a lot of people,

536
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: you know, we know that at your core you're a

537
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: good person, but like sometimes you kind of talk about

538
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: yourself a lot and you never ask anyone else about themselves.

539
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 1: It's like I've had that conversation with people and that

540
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 1: is are.

541
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 2: We talking about me?

542
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 1: No?

543
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no no, but just that It's like

544
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 3: there are some people that are essentially good people, but

545
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 3: because they're insecure, they literally talk about themselves the whole time,

546
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 3: because their mission is to impress people like my objective,

547
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 3: and they would never maybe they don't even know it.

548
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 3: But rather than just going you know, uh, how are you,

549
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 3: what's going on with you?

550
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 1: Tell me about how's work, how are your parents? You know,

551
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 1: what is up? How's your wife? How your kids? Has

552
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 1: that project? Like you started? I know you joined a gym,

553
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 1: or I know that you're enrolled in a course, or

554
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: tell me about that. Like, as soon as you genuinely

555
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 1: talk to people in that way, you're building rapport and connection.

556
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: For most people anyways, some people don't want to talk

557
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: about themselves, but the majority do given the right context

558
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: and the right approach. But I think, like as somebody

559
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: who has had to as part of my role as

560
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 1: a leader and a business owner and an employer, I

561
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 1: have literally had to give people feedback probably thousands of times,

562
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: but at least hundreds of times. There were staff that

563
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: I had where you could go hey, Bobby, and you go, yeah,

564
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 1: what's up. I go, you know that thing that you

565
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 1: did before with that lady when you did x YZ

566
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: And you go yep, I go, don't do that and

567
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 1: you go oh okay, and I go, it's all good.

568
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 1: It's not a drama. But these are the reasons I

569
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 1: don't want you to do that, or why I think

570
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: it's not a good idea, And you go, yeah, that

571
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 1: makes total sense, thanks Craig, And I'm like, see you mate,

572
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: all good, and then we have lunch an hour later

573
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 1: and we're happy as fuck right now to have a

574
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: version of that conversation with someone else, I've got to

575
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: do like this fucking verbal gymnastics, trying to somehow get

576
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 1: them in an emotional lands psychological state where they are

577
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: mildly receptive. Whereas I know I can tell Bobby stuff

578
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 1: and he just goes, yeah, sure, I get it, that

579
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 1: makes sense, no problem. But for other people it just

580
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 1: does not work that way. And I had a few

581
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 1: staff members over the years where I'm like, I fucking

582
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 1: dreaded giving them feedback, and it was for their own good,

583
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 1: and it was for professionalism, and it was for the

584
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:49,399
Speaker 1: client's welfare, and it was always warranted, Like I would

585
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 1: rather not give it, like it, I only did it

586
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 1: because I had to, because I needed to protect firstly

587
00:34:55,400 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 1: the client, secondly the trainer, and thirdly the right. So

588
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 1: there are just some conversations despite the fact that I

589
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 1: don't want to fucking do it. It's like, well, Craig,

590
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 1: you own the joint. There's nobody else you know that

591
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:18,240
Speaker 1: that being able to navigate the the uniqueness of each

592
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:24,240
Speaker 1: person's kind of social and emotional and kind of mental

593
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:29,359
Speaker 1: intelligence in that context dealing with that stuff, because it's like,

594
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 1: you know, someone takes one pill they're good. Someone takes

595
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 1: the same pill for the same condition they get sick.

596
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,760
Speaker 1: It's that's the same with feedback, with communication, with training,

597
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 1: with with any kind of inbound stimulus. You know.

598
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 2: And but let's unpack a lot of the wisdom that

599
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:47,879
Speaker 2: you that you just get, because there was a lot

600
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 2: of gold nuggets in that entire narrative. I mean, if

601
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 2: we go back, we can start with the guy that

602
00:35:56,239 --> 00:36:01,800
Speaker 2: talks about himself all the time, not because he's selfish

603
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 2: and completely disinterested in others, but he is insecure, right,

604
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 2: so he does not think he measures up to people

605
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 2: in order to gain love and acceptance. Oh, listen to me,

606
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 2: and you know, if I could tell a really great

607
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 2: story about myself and make myself look good, well then

608
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 2: you'll accept me no self awareness whatsoever. Because he is

609
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 2: so focused on his own insecurity that you're having the

610
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 2: exact opposite effect on people. So you pull a person

611
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 2: like that over who's insecure and you give them critical

612
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 2: feedback and a difficult conversation, they're going to defend themselves

613
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 2: because that is a threat. I think what you also

614
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 2: said is when you had rapport with certain people, that

615
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 2: rapport is an implicit contract I mean, we got to

616
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 2: talk about what is rapport because a lot of times

617
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 2: when you buy an audio program or you buy a

618
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 2: book on rapport, the author will refer to rapport like

619
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 2: in sales, let's say, as a state of likability, like

620
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 2: you really like that person. Wow, that's not what rapport is.

621
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 2: It's hard, it's really hard to build rapport if you

622
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:25,280
Speaker 2: truly deeply cannot stand each other. But rapport, the best

623
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 2: definition I've heard is it's a relationship of positive responsiveness

624
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:37,240
Speaker 2: between yourself. So if you're not in rapport with yourself,

625
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 2: it's very hard to be in rapport with someone else

626
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 2: and another person. So it's that ability. Our relationship dynamic

627
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:50,319
Speaker 2: is such that when we communicate, things happen. There is

628
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 2: a responsiveness that is occurring, could be observed in the conversation,

629
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 2: and as a result of the relationship that is amazing.

630
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 2: So when you've developed to that degree, there's an implicit

631
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 2: understanding that you're invested in me, where other people you

632
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 2: might be in the exact role where not only is

633
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 2: inappropriate to have this conversation, it's negligent not to, but

634
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 2: you still get an emotional response because that level of

635
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,800
Speaker 2: rapport hasn't been built, or maybe you're talking to someone

636
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 2: who it's very hard to build rapport with because they're

637
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 2: always right. You have those people. Now for me to say, like,

638
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 2: here's what I've done about this, I just want to

639
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 2: come clean being very vulnerable. The last time in recent

640
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 2: history I managed a small team of people, I was

641
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 2: atrocious in having critical conversations and I completely shit the bed.

642
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:53,919
Speaker 2: So I just I just want to come clean on

643
00:38:53,960 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 2: that is no, because I a lot of times I

644
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 2: just want to say that things have worked for me

645
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 2: in the past, or I've learned them and I have

646
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,839
Speaker 2: applied them, but sometimes I don't apply them very well

647
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 2: at all. And I think that's important when you're trying

648
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 2: to share information with someone, and I think it's critical

649
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 2: to respect the people who are listening or go Yeah,

650
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 2: there are times where you know, I've read all the books,

651
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 2: I've gotten on stage and done the seminars, I've applied

652
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 2: it on my with my teams, and then other times

653
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:30,320
Speaker 2: for whatever reason where I was I shit the bed completely.

654
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 2: Oh and so will you. And that's normal because if

655
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 2: you reflect on that, you'll learn from it. So what's

656
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:43,320
Speaker 2: what I found used to work for me with teams

657
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 2: is setting up a series of agreements really early. And

658
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 2: let me just say, a lot of times, if you

659
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 2: if you have a level of rapport and there's a

660
00:39:53,800 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 2: level of honesty, asking very pointed specific questions, you usually

661
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 2: elicits a solution. People know, Like at some level, people know,

662
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 2: and when they come to the end of themselves, sometimes

663
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 2: they go, well what do you think and they open

664
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 2: up that door. Doesn't mean they're going to take your advice,

665
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:18,880
Speaker 2: but at least it's it's by invitation and not perception

666
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 2: of imposition. But I would establish agreements with people like

667
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 2: what are we trying to achieve here? Right? So this

668
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 2: is what the company, This is what the department's goals are.

669
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 2: This is the company. What are your personal aspirations? What's

670
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 2: important to you? What does success look like for you? Okay,

671
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 2: what needs to happen? Not like, okay, I'm going to

672
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 2: tell you what needs to happen? Again, what do you

673
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 2: think needs to happen? And then at some point in

674
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 2: the conversation, so well, here's what has worked for the

675
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 2: majority of people who have had similar goals to you.

676
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 2: They've done this, which one of those things seem most

677
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 2: resonant with you so I'd spend a lot of time

678
00:40:56,280 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 2: up front, and if something occurred where there was a

679
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 2: violation of an agreement, I would make the most generous assumption.

680
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 2: I would make the assumption that either it's it's a

681
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 2: learning curve, or it was unintentional, or maybe the person

682
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:17,439
Speaker 2: didn't know enough to recognize that an error was being

683
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 2: made or agreement was being violated. I think, I think

684
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 2: having that mindset changes the dynamic in your nonverbal communication.

685
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 2: And then I would I would always I would always

686
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 2: take responsibility for it, because one is a leader, you

687
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:40,399
Speaker 2: are always responsible, not you who right? And in earlier conversations,

688
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 2: I would always end them with Okay, what can I

689
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 2: do to help? What is my role in helping you

690
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 2: achieve your goals? How do you how does that show

691
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:50,879
Speaker 2: up right?

692
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 1: Like?

693
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 2: How how do you want me to bring it to

694
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 2: your attention? How do you like feedback? And all of

695
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 2: these questions. So now I could just say, hey, like

696
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 2: I noticed something happened, and you know, I just wanted

697
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 2: to catch it and say I probably didn't explain this correctly,

698
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 2: so I put the responsibility on me. Is that gonna

699
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 2: work in every single situation?

700
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 1: No?

701
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 2: And sometimes I would even have a candid conversation about, well,

702
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 2: if you were me and the situation was reversed, how

703
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,439
Speaker 2: would you handle this situation? Like, what do you think

704
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,280
Speaker 2: would be most helpful? Now, I never had anyone fire

705
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 2: themselves before, but usually what they come up with it's

706
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 2: pretty on the nose a lot. In most cases, it's

707
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 2: a little bit more harsh than what I would have

708
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 2: come up with, because they're looking at, oh, if I

709
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 2: was the boss. Very rarely do I sit in a

710
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 2: position of leadership and think I'm the boss of anyone.

711
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 2: Most of the time it's the other way around. You're

712
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 2: there to serve those people. But I think those types

713
00:42:52,680 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 2: of open inquiry is not only more better received, yes,

714
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 2: but a lot of times the application of it is

715
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 2: a little bit more sustainable because not only autonomy, it's agency.

716
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 2: People are coming up with their own strategies on how

717
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 2: to adapt and move forward more successfully.

718
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:17,880
Speaker 1: I feel like people want to feel good more than

719
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 1: they want to grow, you know, and growth is hard,

720
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 1: and growth is uncomfortable, and feedback is hard, and feedback

721
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 1: is uncomfortable, and acknowledging our own mistakes or flaws is uncomfortable,

722
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 1: and it's you know, you think about think about how

723
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 1: many things you've gotten wrong over the years. I don't

724
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 1: know how many that is, but for me, I don't

725
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 1: know that thousands, thousands, And that's not me throwing me

726
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:47,799
Speaker 1: under the bus. That's me just trying to be brave

727
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 1: and honest and aware of how many things I got

728
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 1: wrong in conversations, how many decisions I made that were

729
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:57,800
Speaker 1: bad with my body, with my training, with my nutrition,

730
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:03,239
Speaker 1: with relationships, with business, with with you know, content for

731
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 1: courses and programs, and how many times I misread a

732
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 1: situation or misread a person, or or spoke inappropriately, or

733
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:17,359
Speaker 1: or believed something that was untrue or you know, it's

734
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:21,279
Speaker 1: but to be able to go I actually like, I

735
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 1: actually listen to these guys talk because I genuinely just

736
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:28,799
Speaker 1: want to think better, do better, be better, create better outcomes. Well,

737
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 1: part of that, you know, is almost like that self

738
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:35,840
Speaker 1: feedback of all, right, what is my life telling me?

739
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 1: What are my relationships telling me? Because that's all feedback,

740
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:42,720
Speaker 1: that's data. What's my body saying, what's my bank balance saying?

741
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 1: You know, there are all of these kind of objective

742
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:48,920
Speaker 1: outcomes that we can at the very least be aware

743
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:52,280
Speaker 1: of and then perhaps interpret. You know, I keep doing

744
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:55,720
Speaker 1: this thing. I have this happen, this pattern, this habit,

745
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 1: this behavior, this protocol, and this is the result. Well

746
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 1: that it's a shit result. So the way that I'm

747
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 1: approaching it doesn't work, or it doesn't work optimally, but

748
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 1: I'm comfortable with that. And for me to really move

749
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 1: the needle is going to be not quick or painless

750
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 1: or easy or fun or comfortable, you know. And this

751
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:20,800
Speaker 1: is the whole, you know, whether or not we're getting

752
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 1: the feedback, the input, the data, the awareness from some

753
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 1: objective measure that we can see or some number you know,

754
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 1: or some measurable outcome, or we're getting it from Bobby

755
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 1: who gives a fuck about us and just wants to

756
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 1: actually help us on our way. Either way, it still

757
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 1: requires somebody to acknowledge something that is going to be

758
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:50,800
Speaker 1: uncomfortable and potentially open a door to changing thinking, habits, behavior, whatever.

759
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 1: That is going to be a slow fix, not a

760
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:55,840
Speaker 1: quick fixed, more than likely.

761
00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 2: But there's always that population of people that will not

762
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 2: move forward. Yeah, and the common denominator in every situation

763
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 2: is themselves. And there is some of those people you're

764
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 2: not going to be able to do anything about. Yes,

765
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 2: you know, sometimes you're responsible in a lot of cases

766
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 2: for effort not outcome. Yeah, you're showing up putting the

767
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 2: effort into people. That's a good thing to be responsible for.

768
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 2: I think that feels good for you as well. It's

769
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:34,399
Speaker 2: it's I think, in my opinion, it's a great way

770
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:36,800
Speaker 2: to live. But the outcome a lot of times is

771
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 2: out of your hands, especially when it comes to autonomous decisions. Yes,

772
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 2: with me, there's there's levels of a conversation. You know,

773
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 2: there's there's focusing like what are we actually dealing with?

774
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 2: What's the situation? Like what's the root cause that drove

775
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 2: this critical conversation? Then there's the evoking why, Okay, this

776
00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:00,800
Speaker 2: person wants to feel comfortable, they don't want to feel

777
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 2: horrible and receive this. Why what's underneath that resistance? And

778
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 2: based on what we can uncover in the receptiveness and

779
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 2: that says, okay, well, planning, what do we do with this?

780
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 2: How do we move forward constructively so we can get better,

781
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 2: we can grow, we can minimize this or mitigate a

782
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 2: portion of the problem. And you know, I think it's

783
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 2: just like selling. If you're going through all of your

784
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:28,959
Speaker 2: steps and you're speaking to a certain amount of people.

785
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,879
Speaker 2: You're gonna have a closing ratio and guess what it's

786
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:33,440
Speaker 2: going to be far from one hundred percent.

787
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:37,400
Speaker 1: Do you want to hear what chat chept thinks about this?

788
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just about to ask you. I wonder

789
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 2: what chat cheaptee thinks about this.

790
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:45,840
Speaker 1: So this is what I just asked. Do people actually

791
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:48,719
Speaker 1: want feedback? This is what chatters has to say. One.

792
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 1: People say they want it, but they usually want the

793
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,919
Speaker 1: edited version. Most people don't want raw, unfiltered, uncomfortable truth.

794
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 1: They want validation with a sprinkle of insight, reassurance with

795
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 1: a side of suggestion, feedback that doesn't poke their ego,

796
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 1: improvement without discomfort. Basically, my chat gpt writes like me,

797
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 1: basically give me feedback as long as it doesn't make

798
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:13,719
Speaker 1: me feel shit. Two. People want to feel good more

799
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 1: than they want to grow. Growth requires discomfort. Feedback threatens

800
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:23,719
Speaker 1: self esteem, identity, narratives, emotional safety, the illusion of competency.

801
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:27,279
Speaker 1: Humans are wired to protect their self concept, so even

802
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 1: when feedback is helpful, it often feels like danger. Three.

803
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 1: The brain interprets feedback as a threat. Neuroscience one oh one,

804
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:38,880
Speaker 1: You're amigdalat often reacts to feedback the same way that

805
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:42,799
Speaker 1: it reacts to someone saying we need to talk. Heart

806
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 1: Rate rises, defensiveness activates, ego wakes up, cortisol increases, protective

807
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 1: narrative turns on. Feedback equals you might not be who

808
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:56,240
Speaker 1: you think you are, and that's terrifying for most people. Four,

809
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 1: But people do want to improve. There's ten. I'll just

810
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 1: do five. Four. Here's the paradox. People don't like receiving feedback,

811
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:07,200
Speaker 1: but they do like progress, competence, mastery, growth, achieving goals, succeeding,

812
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 1: becoming better versions of themselves. So internally people want the

813
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 1: outcome of feedback, they just don't want the emotional discomfort

814
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 1: of hearing it. People do like feedback when it's one gentle,

815
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 1: framed positively delivered by someone they trust, the timing is right,

816
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 1: their nervous system has come. It feels like support rather

817
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 1: than judgment. It's specific and actionable, and it doesn't trigger shame.

818
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 1: They like feedback that feels like help, not criticism. I'll

819
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 1: do one more because it's valid.

820
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:38,839
Speaker 2: That makes perfect sense.

821
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 1: And this one last one. People hate feedback when it

822
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:47,800
Speaker 1: attacks identity. It feels personal, it's vague, it's public, it's unexpected.

823
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:51,320
Speaker 1: The tone is off, It highlights blind spots, it implies

824
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 1: their flawed. It wasn't asked for. Most people didn't grow

825
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:59,040
Speaker 1: up in environments where honest feedback equals safety, so adult

826
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:04,360
Speaker 1: feedback feels like a threat, not guidance. That's interesting, isn't it?

827
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:09,239
Speaker 2: Well? I think it's it's understanding human nature. There is

828
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:13,320
Speaker 2: an element though, that I do want to maybe challenge,

829
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:16,759
Speaker 2: and far be it for me to argue with a

830
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 2: cyber super genius, but I want to go I want

831
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 2: to go back to some research on gratitude because there's

832
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 2: some interesting stuff in there, right, and a little bit

833
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:31,840
Speaker 2: of social cognitive theory. So the whole thing about people,

834
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:36,759
Speaker 2: People desire comfort more than they desire growth. Here's a

835
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 2: question for everyone listening to this, have you or can

836
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 2: you remember a little bit more of a loaded question,

837
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:48,959
Speaker 2: a specific time in your life where things were hard

838
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:55,840
Speaker 2: and you were facing challenges and you wanted comfort, but

839
00:50:56,000 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 2: you also wanted growth. But growth was the harder path,

840
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:07,320
Speaker 2: yet you chose it anyway. I am willing to bet,

841
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,239
Speaker 2: and I am being very conservative. Eighty percent of the

842
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 2: audience did a hand raised inside themselves just now. So

843
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:20,760
Speaker 2: that is evidence that we do choose growth. The question

844
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:26,920
Speaker 2: is what are the elements when we choose comfort overgrowth?

845
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:32,359
Speaker 2: What creates that, What creates that in our neurobiology, what

846
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 2: creates that in our psychology? What past events are we interpreting,

847
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:41,880
Speaker 2: and what's our belief system? Because when you are trying

848
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 2: to help someone get to where they want to be

849
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:49,720
Speaker 2: as a facilitator, not the driver, or that you can't

850
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:54,320
Speaker 2: afford well, people just I mean, that's the bottom line.

851
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 2: You're not going to get through to everyone, nor should

852
00:51:56,440 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 2: you ever have that expectation. But if you can identify

853
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:06,879
Speaker 2: with that person meaning evoking not provoking in the conversation,

854
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 2: you might be able to shed some light on what

855
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:15,440
Speaker 2: the actual factors are that's causing someone to choose comfort

856
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 2: over growth. I know that when growth has been really,

857
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 2: really hard in my life. There are times when I

858
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:24,440
Speaker 2: have chose comfort and doing nothing, and then there are

859
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:27,279
Speaker 2: times when I chose growth even though it was the

860
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:32,879
Speaker 2: much harder path. There's there's either either I have multiple personalities,

861
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 2: which I probably do, or there were different factors at play.

862
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:37,239
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean?

863
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent. And I'm not suggesting at all

864
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:44,840
Speaker 1: that people constantly choose growth or constantly choose comfort. I

865
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:47,719
Speaker 1: think when you say people do choose growth, I'm going

866
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:53,640
Speaker 1: to say sometimes, I'm going to go yes sometimes and

867
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 1: for many people rarely. I think many people are hardwired

868
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:04,359
Speaker 1: for comfort and obsessed with comfort, and obsessed with convenience

869
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:08,319
Speaker 1: and shortcuts and quick fixes and magic pills, which is

870
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 1: why all of that shit sells so vastly, because people

871
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:16,040
Speaker 1: want the reward without the work, without the discomfort, without

872
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:18,759
Speaker 1: the pain. If they didn't want that, all of those

873
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 1: things wouldn't sell. But you are correct in that people

874
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:28,640
Speaker 1: do choose growth over comfort. But the asterisks is, you know,

875
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:33,719
Speaker 1: sometimes sometimes some people, But I think the more important

876
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 1: parts So I agree with you, but I think with

877
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:39,839
Speaker 1: an asterisk, but I think the more important part of

878
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:43,000
Speaker 1: this is we all have the potential to do the

879
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 1: hard thing, like you know you think about I've spoken

880
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:50,319
Speaker 1: about this many times before, but even say Johnny, who

881
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:52,640
Speaker 1: you know, Johnny, my friend that got blown up, who's

882
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:56,839
Speaker 1: you know? Traumatic brain injury, spinal cord injury. You know,

883
00:53:57,160 --> 00:54:00,120
Speaker 1: when he had his accident, he couldn't get up the

884
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:01,759
Speaker 1: next day. Will He was in a coma for over

885
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:03,760
Speaker 1: a month, so he didn't get up on any days

886
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 1: for quite a while, and he was going to be

887
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 1: a quadriplegic allegedly, but he couldn't wake up. When he

888
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 1: eventually he woke up and said, you know what, I'm

889
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:15,399
Speaker 1: not going to do traumatic brain injury and spinal corps.

890
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:16,719
Speaker 1: I'm not going to do it. Fuck it, I'll do

891
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:18,960
Speaker 1: it Monday. Like you just have to cope. Like there

892
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:22,960
Speaker 1: are certain things when you don't have the option of

893
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:27,560
Speaker 1: choosing comfort because something profound has happened in your world.

894
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:33,279
Speaker 1: So you have two options, the fucking horrible option or

895
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 1: the slightly more horrible option. It's like the comfort is

896
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 1: not one of the options in this moment in time.

897
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:44,800
Speaker 1: And so and of course the vast majority of people

898
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:48,239
Speaker 1: get through it, like they do it. They step up

899
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:53,280
Speaker 1: because well, there's no quick, easy, fun, painless kind of option.

900
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:57,800
Speaker 1: And I you know, that encourages me regarding people's potential.

901
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 1: But I just think that we and I'm generalizing and

902
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about everyone, of course, but we are

903
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:08,799
Speaker 1: well I can I live in Australia, so I'm going

904
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:13,239
Speaker 1: to speak not for Australia, but what I see, which

905
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 1: is we are a country and a culture which is

906
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:22,799
Speaker 1: in part obsessed with convenience and shortcuts and quick fixes

907
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:26,920
Speaker 1: and comfort and you know, and this for a range

908
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:32,759
Speaker 1: of reasons, in my opinion, is so debilitating and so

909
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 1: crippling to people's potential and resilience and personal power. Steps down,

910
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:38,680
Speaker 1: off soapbox.

911
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:43,560
Speaker 2: Have you ever read the book The One Minute Manager

912
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:45,839
Speaker 2: by Can Blanchet one.

913
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:48,560
Speaker 1: Hundred years ago? That was that a little blue book?

914
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:53,359
Speaker 2: No, it's a way right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

915
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 2: I remember. And he was one of the pioneers behind

916
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:05,399
Speaker 2: feeble story form business books. Martin Rooney, who you've had

917
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:08,600
Speaker 2: on the show, he writes much more extensive. I mean,

918
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:14,960
Speaker 2: he's actually he writes adventure stories. Now, he writes adventure novels.

919
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:18,160
Speaker 2: He's a brilliant writer. But he's written a few of

920
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:23,680
Speaker 2: these fable type of business books and he's spectacular. But

921
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:26,760
Speaker 2: the first principle and the One Minute Manager was catch

922
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:32,160
Speaker 2: someone doing something right. And it's so there's some interesting

923
00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:39,240
Speaker 2: research by a couple of guys, Robert Emmons and Michael McCullum.

924
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:44,359
Speaker 2: And Michael McCallum more so than Emmons, looks at gratitude

925
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:48,920
Speaker 2: from an evolutionary perspective, like why would nature select for

926
00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:52,480
Speaker 2: gratitude in the first place, like why do we need it?

927
00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:56,560
Speaker 2: And what he believes is if you if you have

928
00:56:56,640 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 2: gratitude about something, and let's say that gratitude is connected

929
00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:06,320
Speaker 2: to a person. Let's say I feel very grateful because

930
00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 2: you did something specifically, maybe it was for me or

931
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:12,839
Speaker 2: for someone I cared about. What am I now likely

932
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 2: to do? I'm likely to go to you and say, oh,

933
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:21,720
Speaker 2: my goodness, Craig, I'm so grateful and tell you exactly

934
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 2: why I'm grateful for you. Yeah, so that hasn't a

935
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 2: profound effect on your neurobiology. You feel amazing, your stress

936
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:37,160
Speaker 2: hormone levels drop. That's something you want more of. So

937
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:43,920
Speaker 2: a couple of things start to happen. One, you want

938
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:47,360
Speaker 2: to experience stuff like that more of the time. So

939
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:49,600
Speaker 2: let's say you have a team, or let's say you

940
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:51,880
Speaker 2: live in a family and people make a habit of

941
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:55,000
Speaker 2: doing that and you start hearing some of the same

942
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:59,720
Speaker 2: things from different people. What are you now motivated to

943
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 2: go out and do.

944
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 1: If I hear similar feedback from people?

945
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:05,959
Speaker 2: M hm.

946
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:10,720
Speaker 1: Me, personally, I'd probably do something about it. I'd probably

947
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:12,640
Speaker 1: act on their advice so they.

948
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:15,440
Speaker 2: Do more of it. Yeah, they just gave you a

949
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:19,600
Speaker 2: reputation to live up to. So, now how do you

950
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:24,280
Speaker 2: feel about me? Because I'm someone who's shed light on

951
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 2: this great attribute that you have or an area of competence.

952
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 2: You feel great about me. I feel great about you.

953
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:33,400
Speaker 2: So what we're doing is we're building reciprocity and pro

954
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 2: social behaviors that act as vicarious experiences, right because other

955
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:43,400
Speaker 2: people in our family or our circle of friends sees

956
00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:47,480
Speaker 2: this public recognition and it's like, oh, okay, I understand this.

957
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:51,720
Speaker 2: You know I will be rewarded for these types of behaviors.

958
00:58:52,520 --> 00:58:56,280
Speaker 2: So you're getting that, and now you're also getting social persuasion.

959
00:58:57,040 --> 00:59:00,160
Speaker 2: So like if you look at social cognitive theory out

960
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:05,520
Speaker 2: at Bendura, that's like two that's two primary elements of

961
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:10,520
Speaker 2: what it takes to elicit behavior change. So you start

962
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:14,160
Speaker 2: to create this within all of your subcultures and it's

963
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:19,520
Speaker 2: really important. So people want to and you're also building

964
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:22,640
Speaker 2: a sense of agency in people because I believe a

965
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:24,800
Speaker 2: lot of times when people are like, Okay, I'm going

966
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:28,800
Speaker 2: to choose comfort overgrowth, it might be linked to I

967
00:59:28,840 --> 00:59:33,200
Speaker 2: don't believe I'm capable, So why would I invest energy

968
00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:37,240
Speaker 2: in doing something that has a physical, emotional psychological cost

969
00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:41,480
Speaker 2: if I don't believe that I have any agency in

970
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:44,840
Speaker 2: bringing about the outcomes or the experience that motivates me

971
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:48,600
Speaker 2: tackling discomfort in the first place. So the more I

972
00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:51,600
Speaker 2: start to point out things, I elevate self efficacy because

973
00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 2: if you agree to it, oh yeah, I did do that,

974
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 2: that's irrefutable evidence in your ability. So you're creating a

975
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:02,520
Speaker 2: culture not only a rapport of gratitude or reciprocity of

976
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:08,760
Speaker 2: a vicarious experiences and of social persuasion. You're creating a

977
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:14,200
Speaker 2: culture of self efficacy. And I think that's it's one

978
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:19,120
Speaker 2: of these things that is easy to do, and it

979
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:24,400
Speaker 2: has profound effects on members of whatever your group is,

980
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:26,800
Speaker 2: the people at the office, the people in your household,

981
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:29,080
Speaker 2: the people you hang out with at the pub every

982
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:30,200
Speaker 2: Tuesday night.

983
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we've got to wind up. But I've got

984
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:35,320
Speaker 1: one brief question for you. So you've been in a

985
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:38,120
Speaker 1: leadership position a lot, and you teach, and you try

986
01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:43,280
Speaker 1: and your coach. What's one red flag where you just

987
01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:45,680
Speaker 1: are not going to give somebody feedback where you go.

988
01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:48,080
Speaker 1: I'm just going to hit the pause button here.

989
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:52,640
Speaker 2: Mmm, okay, wow, there are multiple but what pops into

990
01:00:52,640 --> 01:01:00,280
Speaker 2: my mind is where somebody believes that they are are

991
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:03,520
Speaker 2: innately more special than the rest of the team, when

992
01:01:03,520 --> 01:01:06,680
Speaker 2: they feel that they are more deserving or they stand

993
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:12,120
Speaker 2: out in a certain way without a reasonable demonstration. So

994
01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:16,960
Speaker 2: let me use the gym analogy. If you do post

995
01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:20,640
Speaker 2: rehabilitation training and you think, well, I deserve special recognition

996
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:24,280
Speaker 2: for post rehab you know, well, yeah, you kind of do.

997
01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:26,520
Speaker 2: If you're the only person on the team that does

998
01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:31,080
Speaker 2: that and you do it, well, you deserve recognition for that.

999
01:01:31,600 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 2: But if you're appraising yourself based on an innate characteristic

1000
01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:40,920
Speaker 2: and not a demonstratable area of performance or skill set,

1001
01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:44,640
Speaker 2: I have no patience for that level of entitlement.

1002
01:01:46,160 --> 01:01:49,400
Speaker 1: Number two, why would you not give them feedback?

1003
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:50,800
Speaker 2: Well?

1004
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:53,800
Speaker 1: I would, Oh you would. No, I said, what's a

1005
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:56,760
Speaker 1: red flag where you would not give someone feedback? No?

1006
01:01:56,920 --> 01:01:59,280
Speaker 2: I thought you said, what's a oh, Jase, talk about

1007
01:01:59,600 --> 01:02:01,920
Speaker 2: the list an guy. I'm going to chalk this up

1008
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:04,960
Speaker 2: to age and and and like like century failure here,

1009
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:10,520
Speaker 2: I'm thinking, I'm thinking it's a red flag with an employee.

1010
01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:14,320
Speaker 1: No, no, no, not and not an employee just not Jim,

1011
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:17,960
Speaker 1: not employee, not just just a human just you like

1012
01:02:18,080 --> 01:02:23,080
Speaker 1: where where you could give someone like insight wisdom feedback,

1013
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:25,720
Speaker 1: but there's a red flag that tells you not to.

1014
01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:27,160
Speaker 1: What is that red flag?

1015
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:32,040
Speaker 2: One is, yeah, one is a history of being completely

1016
01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:36,160
Speaker 2: unreceptive and not open. You're an individual that it's never

1017
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:40,760
Speaker 2: your fault, you never do anything wrong, you never admit

1018
01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:44,000
Speaker 2: to error, you never admit to fault. It's always somebody else,

1019
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:48,040
Speaker 2: and it's just it's just gonna be an exercise in futility.

1020
01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:53,600
Speaker 2: Someone who has decided in advance that they are completely

1021
01:02:53,720 --> 01:03:00,680
Speaker 2: unwilling or like unrequired to take feedback. That person's just

1022
01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:07,640
Speaker 2: not coachable. Second thing is emotional arousal, like what has

1023
01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:11,160
Speaker 2: just occurred? What are you giving feedback on? When did

1024
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:14,720
Speaker 2: it happen? Because sometimes, you know, people say, oh, you

1025
01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:17,640
Speaker 2: want to give feedback as soon as possible. You know

1026
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:20,120
Speaker 2: what if what if somebody made a series of errors

1027
01:03:20,800 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 2: and they just blew a presentation in front of an

1028
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:28,760
Speaker 2: entire room and the thing they hate the most is presenting.

1029
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:31,760
Speaker 2: Now is probably not the time. How do you think

1030
01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:36,480
Speaker 2: that person's feeling. First of all, their their prefrontal cortex

1031
01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:41,680
Speaker 2: is probably not even able to assimilate and utilize any feedback.

1032
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:45,760
Speaker 2: Number two, they're they're looking at it through a different

1033
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:50,680
Speaker 2: emotional lens. Maybe maybe tomorrow, maybe maybe tonight. You know,

1034
01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:53,800
Speaker 2: go have yourself a cup of tea, grab a glass

1035
01:03:53,840 --> 01:03:59,160
Speaker 2: of wine, whatever your beverage choice is. Don't think about this.

1036
01:03:59,800 --> 01:04:02,920
Speaker 2: Every of things cool. Let's talk about this in the morning.

1037
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:07,680
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yeah, perfect mate. Where can people connect with you?

1038
01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:09,600
Speaker 1: Where can they listen to you?

1039
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:14,720
Speaker 2: I I am usually on the corner of Park Boulevard

1040
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:24,800
Speaker 2: and well, wait, that sounds horrible, a little creepy, doesn't, doesn't. Yeah, well, okay,

1041
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:27,400
Speaker 2: the economy has not gotten that difficult yet.

1042
01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:30,680
Speaker 1: You know what I'm doing right now, I'm just writing

1043
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:33,560
Speaker 1: down a little note to myself for a potential whiteboard.

1044
01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:37,040
Speaker 1: I'm prompted by you, and it's going to say something

1045
01:04:37,240 --> 01:04:40,480
Speaker 1: like my AMIG diligious hijacked my prefrontal cortex.

1046
01:04:41,120 --> 01:04:45,760
Speaker 2: So thanks, something is really wrong with me. Tonight, when

1047
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:49,000
Speaker 2: you had said, oh, I'm getting an idea for a whiteboard,

1048
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:50,280
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, good for you. You're going to

1049
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:52,040
Speaker 2: bring a weight board, like, like right on it. Join

1050
01:04:52,080 --> 01:04:56,959
Speaker 2: the podcast. That's interesting. Oh boy, Bobby, Bobby.

1051
01:04:57,680 --> 01:04:59,080
Speaker 1: Where can people connect with you?

1052
01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:02,680
Speaker 2: Sorry, I'm on, I'm on, I'm on like LinkedIn and uh,

1053
01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:07,720
Speaker 2: Robert Capuccio dot com. I'm on the self help antidote

1054
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:10,040
Speaker 2: dot com. You know, every once in a while do

1055
01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:11,160
Speaker 2: track my emails.

1056
01:05:11,320 --> 01:05:15,120
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah cool, All right, buddy, we appreciate you.

1057
01:05:15,160 --> 01:05:18,720
Speaker 1: We'll say goodbye fair but yeah, have a good night,

1058
01:05:18,800 --> 01:05:21,240
Speaker 1: Have a good night over there in the weird world

1059
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:21,840
Speaker 1: of America.

1060
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:23,320
Speaker 2: Name everybody,