1 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:06,720 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed daily interview. I'm, Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:07,020 --> 00:00:08,789 Sean Aylmer: A few months ago we saw the release of the 3 00:00:08,789 --> 00:00:12,539 Sean Aylmer: first batch of data from the 2021 census, but since 4 00:00:12,539 --> 00:00:15,089 Sean Aylmer: then, the Australian Bureau of Statistics has continued to mine 5 00:00:15,089 --> 00:00:17,489 Sean Aylmer: the data with a second batch of insights revealing a 6 00:00:17,489 --> 00:00:21,540 Sean Aylmer: lot about employment, education and the skills shortage in Australia. 7 00:00:21,900 --> 00:00:25,710 Sean Aylmer: Simon Kuestenmacher is the co- founder of The Demographics Group and almost 8 00:00:25,710 --> 00:00:28,110 Sean Aylmer: regular here. Simon, welcome back to Fear and Greed. 9 00:00:28,530 --> 00:00:29,670 Simon Kuestenmacher: It's great to be back. 10 00:00:30,030 --> 00:00:32,519 Sean Aylmer: So let's just get sort of a macro picture to 11 00:00:32,519 --> 00:00:36,149 Sean Aylmer: begin with from the census. The big employers in Australia 12 00:00:36,150 --> 00:00:40,050 Sean Aylmer: are things like healthcare, retail, construction, education. I think those 13 00:00:40,050 --> 00:00:42,900 Sean Aylmer: four make up about 40% of the workforce. Is that 14 00:00:42,900 --> 00:00:45,659 Sean Aylmer: something that's fairly stable in the Australian economy? 15 00:00:46,530 --> 00:00:50,339 Simon Kuestenmacher: Well, so traditionally they are the big growth sectors. We 16 00:00:50,340 --> 00:00:54,870 Simon Kuestenmacher: do know that healthcare will forever onwards be the fastest 17 00:00:54,870 --> 00:00:59,370 Simon Kuestenmacher: growing sector in the Australian economy simply because we are 18 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:03,870 Simon Kuestenmacher: aging at a rapid pace. And the aging of the 19 00:01:03,870 --> 00:01:07,920 Simon Kuestenmacher: population is of course, very labor intensive. Half of the 20 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:13,649 Simon Kuestenmacher: population over the age of 85 requires assistance with activities 21 00:01:13,650 --> 00:01:15,900 Simon Kuestenmacher: of daily life. So we do know that it is 22 00:01:15,900 --> 00:01:19,680 Simon Kuestenmacher: expensive to grow old, but it is also freakishly labor 23 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:20,848 Simon Kuestenmacher: intensive to grow old. 24 00:01:21,660 --> 00:01:25,139 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So certainly healthcare is going to stay in that 25 00:01:25,139 --> 00:01:27,719 Sean Aylmer: top bucket for quite a while. Are there any other 26 00:01:27,719 --> 00:01:30,119 Sean Aylmer: occupations that are more likely to come into it? I 27 00:01:30,119 --> 00:01:33,540 Sean Aylmer: think just from memory, might be software programmer all of 28 00:01:33,540 --> 00:01:37,770 Sean Aylmer: a sudden appeared in the top 20 job list. What 29 00:01:37,770 --> 00:01:39,420 Sean Aylmer: are the types of new jobs we're seeing? 30 00:01:39,750 --> 00:01:44,849 Simon Kuestenmacher: It's all these professional services jobs, finance jobs, IT jobs 31 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:49,500 Simon Kuestenmacher: that have been absolutely booming. Remember that the census was 32 00:01:49,500 --> 00:01:54,180 Simon Kuestenmacher: held during lockdowns and it was awkward to onboard new 33 00:01:54,180 --> 00:01:56,999 Simon Kuestenmacher: staff via Zoom, but it could be done. So we've 34 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:01,590 Simon Kuestenmacher: seen those so- called skill level one jobs, those university 35 00:02:01,590 --> 00:02:06,209 Simon Kuestenmacher: level type jobs boom at a very, very high rate, 36 00:02:06,510 --> 00:02:10,560 Simon Kuestenmacher: whereas so- called middle skill jobs grew slowly and low 37 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:14,100 Simon Kuestenmacher: skill jobs were obviously the first ones to be cut 38 00:02:14,429 --> 00:02:19,168 Simon Kuestenmacher: during the pandemic when hospitality businesses, for example, couldn't operate. 39 00:02:19,740 --> 00:02:23,070 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So it leads us into the whole skills debate 40 00:02:23,788 --> 00:02:27,360 Sean Aylmer: and skills shortages, which seems to be not just a 41 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:31,108 Sean Aylmer: major issue in Australia, an increasingly significant issue for Australia. 42 00:02:32,070 --> 00:02:35,969 Simon Kuestenmacher: Absolutely. You want to remember why this skills shortage actually 43 00:02:36,059 --> 00:02:39,419 Simon Kuestenmacher: occurred in the first place. Our economy got pretty much 44 00:02:39,419 --> 00:02:45,630 Simon Kuestenmacher: used to growing by adding about 180,000 net new migrants 45 00:02:45,630 --> 00:02:49,830 Simon Kuestenmacher: to the country every year. We kind of had this 46 00:02:49,830 --> 00:02:54,030 Simon Kuestenmacher: pipeline in mind as we planned for our infrastructure, for 47 00:02:54,030 --> 00:02:56,610 Simon Kuestenmacher: our jobs and whatnot, and all of a sudden we 48 00:02:56,610 --> 00:02:58,559 Simon Kuestenmacher: had a year, the first year of the pandemic, where 49 00:02:58,559 --> 00:03:02,880 Simon Kuestenmacher: instead of growing by 180, 000 workers, we lost 90, 50 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:05,489 Simon Kuestenmacher: 000. So that means there is all of a sudden 51 00:03:05,490 --> 00:03:09,450 Simon Kuestenmacher: a gap of 270,000 folks in the economy and that 52 00:03:09,450 --> 00:03:12,300 Simon Kuestenmacher: was only the first year of the pandemic. So that 53 00:03:12,300 --> 00:03:14,909 Simon Kuestenmacher: has gotten worse. On top of this, we are now 54 00:03:14,910 --> 00:03:18,089 Simon Kuestenmacher: in a stage where we see this big cohort of 55 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:22,620 Simon Kuestenmacher: baby boomers slowly moving into retirement. So we have a 56 00:03:22,620 --> 00:03:26,940 Simon Kuestenmacher: big cohort leaving the workforce and the other end of 57 00:03:26,940 --> 00:03:29,730 Simon Kuestenmacher: the workforce where young people enter the workforce, they are 58 00:03:29,730 --> 00:03:32,880 Simon Kuestenmacher: dominated by Gen X, which is a really small generation. 59 00:03:33,089 --> 00:03:35,250 Simon Kuestenmacher: So everything is kind of sort of- 60 00:03:35,250 --> 00:03:35,251 Sean Aylmer: Wow. 61 00:03:35,251 --> 00:03:38,580 Simon Kuestenmacher: ... working against the Australian workforce. On top of this, 62 00:03:38,820 --> 00:03:43,560 Simon Kuestenmacher: the biggest generation, millennials, are finally now starting to have 63 00:03:43,590 --> 00:03:46,770 Simon Kuestenmacher: kids at scale. That means for at least a year, 64 00:03:46,770 --> 00:03:50,249 Simon Kuestenmacher: maybe a bit longer, you have the average new millennial 65 00:03:50,250 --> 00:03:54,420 Simon Kuestenmacher: mom temporarily leaving the workforce. So that means we are 66 00:03:54,630 --> 00:03:57,750 Simon Kuestenmacher: creating pressures on the workforce, on the bottom end, on the 67 00:03:57,750 --> 00:04:01,620 Simon Kuestenmacher: top end, in the middle, and it is absolutely everywhere. 68 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:06,300 Sean Aylmer: Wow. I mean, if it's so broad, this is probably an ignorant 69 00:04:06,300 --> 00:04:11,519 Sean Aylmer: question, Simon, but are there certain skills or areas which 70 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:14,339 Sean Aylmer: are particularly hurt or is it broad- based? 71 00:04:14,790 --> 00:04:18,630 Simon Kuestenmacher: Well, particularly low- skilled work is missing all of a 72 00:04:18,630 --> 00:04:22,200 Simon Kuestenmacher: sudden, because you have people, those millennials, they are now 73 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:25,349 Simon Kuestenmacher: moving away from the early career stage where they might 74 00:04:25,349 --> 00:04:28,709 Simon Kuestenmacher: have worked in hospitality. While they worked in hospitality they 75 00:04:28,709 --> 00:04:33,390 Simon Kuestenmacher: gained qualifications to enter higher earning, higher skilled jobs, and 76 00:04:33,390 --> 00:04:36,810 Simon Kuestenmacher: so they leave this gap behind in the lower skill. 77 00:04:36,810 --> 00:04:39,539 Simon Kuestenmacher: So if you are trying to staff a hotel, a 78 00:04:39,540 --> 00:04:43,560 Simon Kuestenmacher: cafe at the moment, that is, funnily enough, actually harder 79 00:04:43,770 --> 00:04:46,710 Simon Kuestenmacher: than it is to staff a IT company. 80 00:04:47,369 --> 00:04:49,830 Sean Aylmer: Wow. Pretty incredible, isn't it? I mean, it must have 81 00:04:49,830 --> 00:04:54,060 Sean Aylmer: an amazing flow on social effects, being people are saving 82 00:04:54,060 --> 00:04:57,870 Sean Aylmer: for homes or people taking holidays, or I'm not quite 83 00:04:57,870 --> 00:05:01,919 Sean Aylmer: sure, but when you have this incredible crunch, it must 84 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:03,840 Sean Aylmer: flow onto more than just the jobs market. 85 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:06,959 Simon Kuestenmacher: Oh, the skills crunch is everywhere. It impacts the quality 86 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:11,220 Simon Kuestenmacher: of life and in many corners, the rich people suffer, 87 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:13,860 Simon Kuestenmacher: is a strong word here, suffer from this. If you 88 00:05:13,860 --> 00:05:19,889 Simon Kuestenmacher: think about those traditional paradise towns, your Margaret River, your 89 00:05:19,889 --> 00:05:23,429 Simon Kuestenmacher: Sorrento, your Byron Bay, whatever is out there, these towns 90 00:05:23,430 --> 00:05:26,849 Simon Kuestenmacher: are now dominated by rich folks. More people move there 91 00:05:26,850 --> 00:05:30,060 Simon Kuestenmacher: for lifestyle reasons, because working from home meant they can 92 00:05:30,060 --> 00:05:34,740 Simon Kuestenmacher: actually work remotely permanently. And they moved to those beautiful 93 00:05:34,740 --> 00:05:40,469 Simon Kuestenmacher: places assuming that their high earning capacity enables them to 94 00:05:40,469 --> 00:05:43,110 Simon Kuestenmacher: constantly go to a cafe, to have their house cleaned 95 00:05:43,110 --> 00:05:46,650 Simon Kuestenmacher: by people and so forth, to rely on all of 96 00:05:46,650 --> 00:05:49,230 Simon Kuestenmacher: those low- income workers to provide services for them. But 97 00:05:49,230 --> 00:05:53,339 Simon Kuestenmacher: they drove up prices in those regional paradise towns and 98 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,909 Simon Kuestenmacher: all of a sudden they can't consume the services that 99 00:05:56,910 --> 00:05:59,699 Simon Kuestenmacher: they sort of rely on and have to do those 100 00:05:59,699 --> 00:06:03,719 Simon Kuestenmacher: things themselves or wait longer for their coffees. So there 101 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,960 Simon Kuestenmacher: are flaw on its effect even throughout the class, even 102 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,020 Simon Kuestenmacher: though it is quite obvious that the more lower- skilled 103 00:06:10,020 --> 00:06:13,710 Simon Kuestenmacher: you are, the lower your income is, the more you suffer. 104 00:06:14,219 --> 00:06:16,080 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Simon, will be back in a minute. 105 00:06:22,410 --> 00:06:25,260 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Simon Kuestenmacher, co- founder of 106 00:06:25,260 --> 00:06:29,039 Sean Aylmer: The Demographics Group. What do we do about it, Australia 107 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,400 Sean Aylmer: as a nation or a business, as an individual organization? 108 00:06:32,580 --> 00:06:33,330 Sean Aylmer: What do we do? 109 00:06:33,570 --> 00:06:36,659 Simon Kuestenmacher: Well, let's start with what a business can do. Quite 110 00:06:36,690 --> 00:06:40,680 Simon Kuestenmacher: often businesses, because the competition is so hard for particularly low- 111 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:44,430 Simon Kuestenmacher: income labor, is well, even if you offer more money, 112 00:06:44,610 --> 00:06:48,600 Simon Kuestenmacher: people can't come because the housing in the particular region 113 00:06:48,809 --> 00:06:53,909 Simon Kuestenmacher: is so freakishly expensive. So employers need to solve the 114 00:06:54,180 --> 00:06:58,110 Simon Kuestenmacher: housing part of the problem for their workers. We are 115 00:06:58,110 --> 00:07:00,900 Simon Kuestenmacher: seeing this in a couple of obvious examples. I know 116 00:07:00,900 --> 00:07:04,979 Simon Kuestenmacher: of a big hotel in Mildura where the owner essentially gave 117 00:07:04,980 --> 00:07:08,488 Simon Kuestenmacher: away a third of his rooms to the staff of 118 00:07:08,490 --> 00:07:11,639 Simon Kuestenmacher: the hotel, because there's no housing available. We're seeing the 119 00:07:11,639 --> 00:07:14,670 Simon Kuestenmacher: Continental Hotel and Sorrento buying a rundown aged care home 120 00:07:14,670 --> 00:07:17,400 Simon Kuestenmacher: in order to revert this to staff. I know of 121 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:21,330 Simon Kuestenmacher: two software companies who purchased housing for their software engineers 122 00:07:21,599 --> 00:07:25,650 Simon Kuestenmacher: to rent out as staff housing, because the free market, 123 00:07:26,009 --> 00:07:29,099 Simon Kuestenmacher: the free housing market, it sees pressures along the full 124 00:07:29,100 --> 00:07:33,690 Simon Kuestenmacher: spectrum, high cost spectrum to low cost spectrum. So there are 125 00:07:33,690 --> 00:07:36,810 Simon Kuestenmacher: not enough builders around. They can decide where they want 126 00:07:36,810 --> 00:07:39,629 Simon Kuestenmacher: to build. Will those builders build on the high- margin 127 00:07:39,630 --> 00:07:42,599 Simon Kuestenmacher: upper end, in the middle- margin middle end or will 128 00:07:42,599 --> 00:07:46,409 Simon Kuestenmacher: they build at the low- margin low end? They of 129 00:07:46,410 --> 00:07:48,750 Simon Kuestenmacher: course will not ever build on the low end, so 130 00:07:48,750 --> 00:07:51,570 Simon Kuestenmacher: the free market can't possibly provide housing at the bottom 131 00:07:51,570 --> 00:07:55,350 Simon Kuestenmacher: end of the scale. We don't have a major state- 132 00:07:55,350 --> 00:07:59,909 Simon Kuestenmacher: owned public housing developer or key worker housing developer who 133 00:07:59,910 --> 00:08:04,049 Simon Kuestenmacher: is solving this. So that funnily enough leads the private 134 00:08:04,049 --> 00:08:07,320 Simon Kuestenmacher: sector, those employers that are desperate enough to take a 135 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:10,110 Simon Kuestenmacher: lot of money into their hands to build staff housing 136 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:14,250 Simon Kuestenmacher: as the only sizeable power that provides housing for the 137 00:08:14,340 --> 00:08:15,959 Simon Kuestenmacher: lowest income workers. 138 00:08:16,620 --> 00:08:19,620 Sean Aylmer: Wow. I mean, so that, it's almost an alternate to fly 139 00:08:19,620 --> 00:08:21,750 Sean Aylmer: in, fly out, which is the mining industry in Western Australia 140 00:08:21,750 --> 00:08:25,650 Sean Aylmer: particularly, pioneered in Australia at least. So it's kind of 141 00:08:25,650 --> 00:08:27,690 Sean Aylmer: being creative, finding solutions. 142 00:08:29,460 --> 00:08:31,290 Simon Kuestenmacher: Oh, it's creative. It's also looking back in history, it is a 143 00:08:31,290 --> 00:08:34,679 Simon Kuestenmacher: bit of the titans of industry approach where in Industrial 144 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:38,129 Simon Kuestenmacher: Revolution, England, if you wanted to have staff for the 145 00:08:38,130 --> 00:08:40,740 Simon Kuestenmacher: new factory that you built, you did need to build 146 00:08:40,740 --> 00:08:43,800 Simon Kuestenmacher: a town next to your factory. So we're moving back 147 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:47,250 Simon Kuestenmacher: to this. This of course has lots of negative flow 148 00:08:47,250 --> 00:08:50,640 Simon Kuestenmacher: and effects where you depend on your employer, not just 149 00:08:50,970 --> 00:08:54,598 Simon Kuestenmacher: for your wage, but also for your housing. So you're 150 00:08:54,599 --> 00:08:57,150 Simon Kuestenmacher: a bit more vulnerable. Instead of being exposed to two 151 00:08:57,150 --> 00:08:59,848 Simon Kuestenmacher: people that could do your harm, employer and landlord, you 152 00:08:59,879 --> 00:09:03,630 Simon Kuestenmacher: rely on just the employer. So ideally we would see 153 00:09:03,630 --> 00:09:07,679 Simon Kuestenmacher: a big increase in public housing development. 154 00:09:08,190 --> 00:09:10,379 Sean Aylmer: So I'm just following that along. And what about the 155 00:09:10,380 --> 00:09:13,889 Sean Aylmer: nation? So certainly more affordable housing, and we're talking about 156 00:09:13,889 --> 00:09:17,790 Sean Aylmer: businesses being creative. But as a nation, how do we 157 00:09:18,210 --> 00:09:20,760 Sean Aylmer: improve on this skill shortage at the moment? 158 00:09:21,150 --> 00:09:23,880 Simon Kuestenmacher: To soften the skilled shortage, the country has a couple 159 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:26,400 Simon Kuestenmacher: of levers it can pull. The most obvious one has 160 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:29,250 Simon Kuestenmacher: to do with migration. There are right now efforts being 161 00:09:29,250 --> 00:09:35,219 Simon Kuestenmacher: put in to clear the visa backlog. We got hundreds 162 00:09:35,219 --> 00:09:38,010 Simon Kuestenmacher: of thousands, tens of thousands, whatever it is, visas that 163 00:09:38,010 --> 00:09:42,000 Simon Kuestenmacher: are just being processed. So these are workers in South 164 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:44,700 Simon Kuestenmacher: Africa, in the Philippines, in God knows where that want 165 00:09:44,700 --> 00:09:46,769 Simon Kuestenmacher: to come to Australia, but they can't because they don't 166 00:09:46,770 --> 00:09:49,738 Simon Kuestenmacher: have a visa yet. That is hurting us. That's one thing 167 00:09:49,740 --> 00:09:52,019 Simon Kuestenmacher: that we can do. The obvious other thing that we 168 00:09:52,020 --> 00:09:54,390 Simon Kuestenmacher: can do is to push as many people as we 169 00:09:54,420 --> 00:09:58,650 Simon Kuestenmacher: can through the TAFE system, in particular. We have heaps 170 00:09:58,650 --> 00:10:02,340 Simon Kuestenmacher: of skills that are missing in those, in our trade, 171 00:10:02,580 --> 00:10:06,900 Simon Kuestenmacher: manufacturing type jobs. And we need to get people from 172 00:10:06,900 --> 00:10:10,199 Simon Kuestenmacher: lower qualified jobs into these jobs. So we need to up- 173 00:10:10,199 --> 00:10:12,420 Simon Kuestenmacher: skill our existing workforce and we really need to make 174 00:10:12,450 --> 00:10:14,850 Simon Kuestenmacher: sure that we push as many young people through the 175 00:10:14,850 --> 00:10:17,699 Simon Kuestenmacher: TAFE system as fast as possible. That would of course 176 00:10:17,700 --> 00:10:21,120 Simon Kuestenmacher: mean that ideally we make TAFE Universally free. We make 177 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,039 Simon Kuestenmacher: sure that those young people that go to TAFE that 178 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,530 Simon Kuestenmacher: might not have a driver's license, that they get free 179 00:10:25,530 --> 00:10:28,469 Simon Kuestenmacher: transport. You want to take all hurdles away so we 180 00:10:28,469 --> 00:10:34,320 Simon Kuestenmacher: can actually create skilled TAFE workers. That is crucial to actually 181 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,350 Simon Kuestenmacher: be able to build all the infrastructure that we were 182 00:10:37,350 --> 00:10:40,469 Simon Kuestenmacher: willing to pay for according to our budgets. But if 183 00:10:40,469 --> 00:10:43,049 Simon Kuestenmacher: you add all the state and federal budgets together, you 184 00:10:43,049 --> 00:10:44,939 Simon Kuestenmacher: just have to laugh if you look at the infrastructure 185 00:10:44,940 --> 00:10:47,580 Simon Kuestenmacher: pipeline, because there's no way that we could possibly build 186 00:10:47,940 --> 00:10:50,910 Simon Kuestenmacher: all the stuff that we are willing to pay for. 187 00:10:51,510 --> 00:10:53,939 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Now a lot of these jobs would be hands- 188 00:10:53,940 --> 00:10:58,590 Sean Aylmer: on jobs. What about those that are remote? So people 189 00:10:58,590 --> 00:11:01,499 Sean Aylmer: working from home? And I'm not sure whether these are 190 00:11:01,500 --> 00:11:03,569 Sean Aylmer: the middle schools or the high schools or the low 191 00:11:03,570 --> 00:11:05,429 Sean Aylmer: schools where it sort of fits in, but it's a 192 00:11:05,429 --> 00:11:08,010 Sean Aylmer: different cohort in a way because they don't need to 193 00:11:08,010 --> 00:11:11,340 Sean Aylmer: be close to their workplace. How will that change things? 194 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:15,270 Simon Kuestenmacher: Oh, the working from home phenomenon is just wonderful to 195 00:11:15,270 --> 00:11:17,730 Simon Kuestenmacher: watch in the data. If you look at the five 196 00:11:17,730 --> 00:11:21,990 Simon Kuestenmacher: censuses before the 21 census, it was always just over 197 00:11:21,990 --> 00:11:25,830 Simon Kuestenmacher: or just under 5% of the Australian workforce that worked 198 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:29,670 Simon Kuestenmacher: remotely and that included farmers who kind of live on 199 00:11:29,670 --> 00:11:34,530 Simon Kuestenmacher: their farm. And that then during the pandemic, August '21, 200 00:11:35,100 --> 00:11:35,340 Simon Kuestenmacher: shot up to 21%. 201 00:11:35,340 --> 00:11:35,521 Sean Aylmer: Wow. 202 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:40,740 Simon Kuestenmacher: So we quadrupled the share of the Australian workforce that 203 00:11:40,740 --> 00:11:45,150 Simon Kuestenmacher: works from home. And if you look at the industries, 204 00:11:45,210 --> 00:11:47,610 Simon Kuestenmacher: the industries that did work from home at a much 205 00:11:47,610 --> 00:11:50,820 Simon Kuestenmacher: higher rate, so higher than the average of 21%, was 206 00:11:50,849 --> 00:11:56,280 Simon Kuestenmacher: financial services, insurance services, two- thirds, 66% of work from home. 207 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:56,338 Sean Aylmer: Wow. 208 00:11:56,670 --> 00:11:58,350 Simon Kuestenmacher: Almost no one went to the office. And this is 209 00:11:58,350 --> 00:12:02,189 Simon Kuestenmacher: across the whole country. Whereas only Melbourne and Sydney, to 210 00:12:02,190 --> 00:12:05,700 Simon Kuestenmacher: a degree, were under strict lockdown conditions. So only half 211 00:12:05,700 --> 00:12:08,250 Simon Kuestenmacher: of the country was under strict lockdown conditions, but it 212 00:12:08,250 --> 00:12:14,400 Simon Kuestenmacher: looks like even the finance workers of Perth and Adelaide 213 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:16,739 Simon Kuestenmacher: chose to work from home as well. We then have 214 00:12:16,740 --> 00:12:21,480 Simon Kuestenmacher: professional services jobs with 55% working from home. IT jobs, 215 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:24,300 Simon Kuestenmacher: over half as well working from home. And on the 216 00:12:24,300 --> 00:12:26,160 Simon Kuestenmacher: other end of the spectrum, you have certain jobs that 217 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:30,809 Simon Kuestenmacher: can't be done from home. So accommodation and food services, 218 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,420 Simon Kuestenmacher: obviously you can't serve food from your home, at least 219 00:12:33,420 --> 00:12:36,958 Simon Kuestenmacher: not many jobs can, so only 4% of jobs in 220 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:40,078 Simon Kuestenmacher: this sector worked from home. And then you have mining, 221 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:43,980 Simon Kuestenmacher: healthcare, also, very few of those people or construction could 222 00:12:44,370 --> 00:12:48,540 Simon Kuestenmacher: work from home. Because not every job has the capacity 223 00:12:48,630 --> 00:12:51,689 Simon Kuestenmacher: to be done from home, quite obviously. But those sectors 224 00:12:51,839 --> 00:12:55,800 Simon Kuestenmacher: that could, they really maxed it out. And looking into 225 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:58,020 Simon Kuestenmacher: the future, we have to say that the genie is 226 00:12:58,020 --> 00:13:02,458 Simon Kuestenmacher: out of the bottle. Forcing, suggesting, inviting people back to 227 00:13:02,460 --> 00:13:05,880 Simon Kuestenmacher: the office is a bit of an uphill battle these 228 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:10,409 Simon Kuestenmacher: days, particularly when we zoom in deeper into the data 229 00:13:10,650 --> 00:13:13,980 Simon Kuestenmacher: and we try to understand by an age profile who 230 00:13:13,980 --> 00:13:17,848 Simon Kuestenmacher: is working from home. So young workers in their teens, 231 00:13:17,850 --> 00:13:22,050 Simon Kuestenmacher: they don't work from home, simply because they have casual 232 00:13:22,050 --> 00:13:24,540 Simon Kuestenmacher: jobs that need to be done in a retail environment 233 00:13:24,540 --> 00:13:27,030 Simon Kuestenmacher: or something like this. But then once you reach your 234 00:13:27,030 --> 00:13:32,250 Simon Kuestenmacher: 30s, close to 40% or over 40% of workers work 235 00:13:32,250 --> 00:13:35,400 Simon Kuestenmacher: from home. And that goes up into the 40s. So 236 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:38,670 Simon Kuestenmacher: the thirties and forties, which is the family formation stage 237 00:13:38,670 --> 00:13:42,389 Simon Kuestenmacher: of the life cycle, those folks during the pandemic left 238 00:13:42,389 --> 00:13:45,509 Simon Kuestenmacher: the inner city. They moved further away from the office 239 00:13:45,509 --> 00:13:49,350 Simon Kuestenmacher: towers in order to buy a family house and now 240 00:13:49,350 --> 00:13:51,720 Simon Kuestenmacher: they want to focus on their kids. And why bother 241 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:55,020 Simon Kuestenmacher: moving back into the city? So getting people in their 30s and 242 00:13:55,020 --> 00:13:58,020 Simon Kuestenmacher: 40s back in, that will be the hardest challenge. 243 00:13:58,260 --> 00:14:00,120 Sean Aylmer: Simon, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 244 00:14:00,690 --> 00:14:01,380 Simon Kuestenmacher: It's been a pleasure. 245 00:14:01,860 --> 00:14:04,949 Sean Aylmer: That was, Simon Kuestenmacher, co- founder of The Demographics Group. 246 00:14:05,190 --> 00:14:07,410 Sean Aylmer: This is The Fear and Greed daily interview. Join us every 247 00:14:07,410 --> 00:14:09,540 Sean Aylmer: morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed, Australia's 248 00:14:09,540 --> 00:14:13,020 Sean Aylmer: most popular business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer, enjoy your day.