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Speaker 1: Listeners are advised that this podcast series Bromwin contains course

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Speaker 1: language and adult themes. This podcast series is brought to

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Speaker 1: you by Me Headley Thomas and The Australian. I'm just

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Speaker 1: going to merge this call with Karina. Okay, Karna Berger.

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Speaker 1: You heard her, she found the handset timetable. All right, eh, yep, yep, Hey,

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Speaker 1: Kaarina you're there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm here Headley and.

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Speaker 3: He's on the line.

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Speaker 1: He's very grateful that you found that timetable.

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Speaker 4: How Annie, thank you for your diligence forwarding that document.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's my pleasure. That's a privileged to be helping

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Speaker 2: your family.

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Speaker 5: That's been fantastic the help we've been getting.

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Speaker 2: Well, they's community detectives.

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Speaker 4: Hello, I'm seening you a couple of peaks horror up

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Speaker 4: the ladder than the fleece.

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Speaker 1: The day before the release of this episode, Bromman's brother

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Speaker 1: Andy Reid, hinted at some of his frustration over the

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Speaker 1: failure of police over many years to give just as

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Speaker 1: much chance in this case. We were on a call

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Speaker 1: with Karina Berger, an experienced lawyer who has been giving

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Speaker 1: her time and expertise to help this podcast investigation into

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Speaker 1: Bromwin's suspected murder thirty one years ago. Karina and many

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Speaker 1: other listeners who have become deeply invested in Bronwan are

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Speaker 1: making a powerful difference. In Episode fifteen, Kaarina's discovery of

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Speaker 1: a May nineteen ninety three official timetable for Answered Australia

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Speaker 1: supported our suspicions that John has misled police with his

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Speaker 1: claims of having made two long distance telephone calls from

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Speaker 1: the house in Sandstone Crescent shortly before Bromwin disappeared. It

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Speaker 1: now appears likely that John was in a jet high

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Speaker 1: above Australia's eastern seaboard when those calls were made, probably

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Speaker 1: by Bromwin. Another stitch in a pattern of what looks

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Speaker 1: like interwoven deceits, another apparent example of a failure by

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Speaker 1: previous police investigations to thoroughly check all the relevant claims

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Speaker 1: made by someone who has always emphatically denied having murdered

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Speaker 1: his estranged wife. Words like frustration and disappointment do not

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Speaker 1: do justice to Andy's view of how police have handled

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Speaker 1: his sister's case since nineteen ninety three. At times his

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Speaker 1: emotions boil over and I hear a powerful anger. He

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Speaker 1: is buoyed that this podcast series and the remarkable efforts

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Speaker 1: of listeners have produced new leeds and witnesses.

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Speaker 4: Joe Putlick and people are quite better at finding things

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Speaker 4: out and frame more diligen on what they are as

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Speaker 4: so frustrated.

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Speaker 1: But it is a double edged sword because Andy is

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Speaker 1: sure that his involvement with the podcast has meant that

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Speaker 1: the new South Wales Unsolved Homicide Units, Detective Inspector Nigel

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Speaker 1: Warren and other detectives are more wary of Andy telling

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Speaker 1: him nothing. Just before the Bromwin series started, Andy met

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Speaker 1: Senior Police with his wife Michelle. The detectives told him

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Speaker 1: that they would not be able to advance their cold

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Speaker 1: case investigation without new evidence. That position appears to have

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Speaker 1: changed with the public interest and revelations in this series.

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Speaker 1: Detectives flew from Sydney to cool and Gatter to take

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Speaker 1: a statement from Judy Singh after her revelations in episode

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Speaker 1: seven about seeing John and what Judy believed was a

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Speaker 1: body in the back of the Ford Falcon. Detectives have

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Speaker 1: also taken statements from Judy's friend Kerry McLain and from

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Speaker 1: Bromwin's neighbor and friend, Virginia Bevers and Inspector Warren has

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Speaker 1: sought from me and my employer, The Australian, a number

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Speaker 1: of documents and files, including all of my interviews with

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Speaker 1: those women. We have provided these. For all we know,

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Speaker 1: Inspector Warren and the unit's detectives are independently uncovering important

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Speaker 1: information away from the spotlight and diligently preparing a brief

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Speaker 1: of evidence to present to the Office of the Director

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Speaker 1: of Public Prosecutions, the same office which in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and three rejected a senior coroner's recommendation that John Winfield

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Speaker 1: should be prosecuted over Bromwin's alleged murder. Andy Reid, however,

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Speaker 1: still dumbfounded by the hopelessness of the early investigations into

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Speaker 1: Bromwin's disappearance, is not convinced. He tells me that he

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Speaker 1: sometimes feels like he is having to alert detectives to

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Speaker 1: what's going on and lobby them to do their job.

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Speaker 1: The day before the release of this episode, Andy and

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Speaker 1: I spoke again. The head of the homicide squad, Danny Doherty,

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Speaker 1: was at a media conference today with the Police Commissioner

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Speaker 1: for New South Wales, Karen Webb, and there was a

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Speaker 1: question from one of my colleagues at The Australian about

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Speaker 1: Bromin's case. She cleared the rostrum so that he could

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Speaker 1: talk about it. Danny Doherty stepped up.

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Speaker 6: What was his response just in relation time ongoing bronwin podcast?

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Speaker 6: What's going on with the John Winfield investigation and what

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Speaker 6: is the force doing in response to the revelations?

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Speaker 7: Response in terms of for that matter, that's on investigation

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Speaker 7: as current investigation and it's well documented.

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Speaker 5: There's a podcast in Israel following that story.

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Speaker 7: But in terms of the unsold term they have that investigation,

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Speaker 7: it's current and that's oncoming. Is there any updated all

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Speaker 7: that we probably read about in an Australia or listened on

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Speaker 7: the podcast? However, we can't comment on white investignations currents

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Speaker 7: in terms of why wasn't mister Winfield charged as the

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Speaker 7: coroner recommended it all those years ago.

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Speaker 5: Let's talk about it already.

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Speaker 7: I went to the DVP and at this stage in

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Speaker 7: sufficient evidence to charge any person.

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Speaker 5: The strengths will for the role.

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Speaker 1: They're obviously playing their cards pretty close to their chest.

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Speaker 4: When I'd been messaging Nigel and I was getting those

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Speaker 4: responses of sorry, I'm not able to disclose anything at

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Speaker 4: this present time. We will be in touch when we

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Speaker 4: are in a position, I want to reach out to

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Speaker 4: him to say, well, who's following, what are you up

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Speaker 4: to date with what's going on. We had all revelations

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Speaker 4: regarding the flight inventories and all the rest of it,

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Speaker 4: and I'm pretty sure that he didn't even know about it.

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Speaker 4: When I first disclosed about the historical fight records and

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Speaker 4: all the rest of it, where knocking down doors, breaking barriers,

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Speaker 4: coming up with you info, he was taken aback by it.

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Speaker 4: He wasn't aware of any of them. That's when I

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Speaker 4: pressed him further and then he had to disclose that.

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Speaker 4: From all the way back at episode seven, Judy, seeing

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Speaker 4: they still haven't got any official statement from New Zealand.

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Speaker 1: From the doctor who corroborated Duty's account of going to

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Speaker 1: the Byron Bay Police station, correct, how do you feel

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Speaker 1: about how the police are performing?

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Speaker 4: I just can't believe that they can be so slow

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Speaker 4: on this matter. We've got something that's a major podcast

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Speaker 4: that's breaking down all sorts of barriers and coming up

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Speaker 4: with all sorts of information. I don't believe that there

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Speaker 4: is anyone that is directly involved with Broman's case that

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Speaker 4: he's up to date.

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Speaker 1: It's just bizarre that you've got to tell them what's

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Speaker 1: already been broadcast to hundreds of thousands of people.

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Speaker 5: Bizarre, absolutely bizarre.

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Speaker 1: My theory is that they handled this.

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Speaker 4: That Paulie and that badly originally that I feel either

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Speaker 4: they're embarrassed or they don't want it out there in

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Speaker 4: the limelight. I can't believe that they're not acting on

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Speaker 4: anything to your knowledge.

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Speaker 1: They could be doing things behind the scenes that we're

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Speaker 1: not aware of. It is beyond dispute now in my

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Speaker 1: view that the original investigation of bromwin Winfield's disappearance in

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three was utterly abysmal, just like the appalling

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Speaker 1: early police investigations of wife killer Chris Dawson, who murdered

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Speaker 1: his wife Lynn in nineteen eighty two. Dawson got away

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Speaker 1: with it for four decades. In twenty eighteen, New South

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Speaker 1: Wales Police, under the then Commission Mick Fuller, helped make amends.

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Speaker 1: His detectives ran a very thorough, painstaking investigation led by

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Speaker 1: Daniel Poole. Mick Fuller kept close tabs on the Dawson investigation.

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Speaker 1: He stood up to respond to media questions about it.

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Speaker 1: He publicly admitted the failure of police to handle it

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Speaker 1: with professionalism in the first decade, and he repeatedly pledged

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Speaker 1: the police force's determination to solve the crime. Fuller did

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Speaker 1: not disclose any operational details that would have been improper,

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Speaker 1: but he was proactive. He showed leadership and a steely resolve.

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Speaker 1: By contrast, Fuller's successor, Commissioner Karen Webb, has been completely

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Speaker 1: silent on Bromin's case.

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Speaker 3: She wanted nothing to do with it.

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Speaker 1: When the questions were asked in a media conference the

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Speaker 1: day before this episode, the most senior homicide detective in

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Speaker 1: the state, Danny Doherty, had next nothing to say. That's

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Speaker 1: very poor form in my view, how do they think

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Speaker 1: families like Bromwin's should feel With performances like those, It

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Speaker 1: is easy to understand why Andy Reid and Bromwin's relatives

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Speaker 1: and friends believe they are being treated shabbily again by police,

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Speaker 1: and at the highest levels this time, and why Andy's

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Speaker 1: dead sister, a mother of two girls, is not getting

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Speaker 1: the top level attention that she has always deserved. There

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Speaker 1: is a striking feature in all of the evidence and

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Speaker 1: information from John For me, It is the sketchiness of

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Speaker 1: the information. It is the banal generality weaved around, an

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Speaker 1: absence of detail and the lack of expression of concern

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Speaker 1: for Bromlin's welfare. Bromin was the mother of John's biological

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Speaker 1: child Lauren, the mother of John's stepdaughter Crystal, and the

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Speaker 1: stepmother of John's daughter Jodi. Bromwin must have been his

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Speaker 1: soulmate for some of the years they were together in

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Speaker 1: a de facto relationship, and then as husband and wife,

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Speaker 1: John and Bromwin were obviously estranged and she wanted a divorce.

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Speaker 1: The marriage was finished. Half of all married couples deal

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Speaker 1: with this, but it is an extraordinary event when a

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Speaker 1: young mother completely vanishes five years later. Feelings of remorse

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Speaker 1: and genuine concern for the woman's welfare would surely be

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Speaker 1: present for an estranged husband notwithstand the tensions in the

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Speaker 1: original separation. Five years is the time between Bromwin's disappearance

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Speaker 1: and John's interview in the Baroner police station. It is

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Speaker 1: a long time to reflect on the complete absence of

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Speaker 1: the most significant person in the lives of your young children.

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Speaker 1: John's presentation in the police interview, however, is cold to

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Speaker 1: Glenn Taylor, John presents as indifferent to Bromin's whereabouts or fate,

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Speaker 1: and perhaps it is because, in John's version, the missing

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Speaker 1: woman to whom he was still legally married, the mother

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Speaker 1: who had planned to drop her two girls at school

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Speaker 1: in Lennox Head on the Monday morning, is still alive.

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Speaker 1: In the previous episode, you heard John being specifically asked

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Speaker 1: about this by Glenn Taylor in that upstairs interview room

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Speaker 1: near the Richmond River in nineteen ninety eight. Do you

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Speaker 1: think your wife might be deceased?

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Speaker 8: No, No, no reason for me to think that way.

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Speaker 1: So you think she's somewhere in this country under another identity?

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Speaker 8: Well, well, I mean I'll tell you the truth. I

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Speaker 8: reckon I could go anywhere alike and assume another identity.

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Speaker 8: I don't see why anyone else can't. I mean, it

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Speaker 8: wouldn't be hard.

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Speaker 1: In the transcript of the only formal interview John has

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Speaker 1: done with police in the thirty one years since Bromin vanished,

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Speaker 1: something else is clear. The sketchiness in John's story about

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Speaker 1: Bromlin after her May sixteen disappearance rises to a level

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Speaker 1: of detail in some crucially important ways, and with the

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Speaker 1: existence of an actual document. It is when John is

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Speaker 1: describing some very unusual circumstances surrounding what has become known

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Speaker 1: as the Medicare check. You heard a small part of

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Speaker 1: this in the previous episode.

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Speaker 8: We went to Sydney again for two weeks and it

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Speaker 8: was during that two weeks that she came back, took

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Speaker 8: clothes and left a Medicare check.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a few moments to explain what exactly the

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Speaker 1: Medicare check is or was. In nineteen ninety three, when

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Speaker 1: Australians like Bromwyn Winfield went to see the doctor, the

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Speaker 1: federal government picked up most and sometimes all of the

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Speaker 1: bill through a system known as Medicare. A reserve bank

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Speaker 1: check would be issued in the name of the payee,

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Speaker 1: the treating doctor. It must have been a frustrating process

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Speaker 1: at times for medical practitioners because the check would be

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Speaker 1: sent by the Federal government or Medicare to the address

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Speaker 1: of the patient in this case Bromwyn, and it would

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Speaker 1: be then up to the patient to physically take the

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Speaker 1: check to the doctor the payee.

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Speaker 3: The doctor could then present.

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Speaker 1: The Medicare check at the bank and when the check cleared,

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Speaker 1: the funds would be posited into the doctor's account. In

220
00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:06,520
Speaker 1: the case of this particular Medicare check, the amount was

221
00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:08,520
Speaker 1: forty dollars and eighty cents.

222
00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:10,360
Speaker 3: I'm looking at a.

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Speaker 1: Photocopy of the check. There is capitalized black type for

224
00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:18,840
Speaker 1: the paye that's written as doctor F Initial G.

225
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Speaker 3: Hughes.

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Speaker 1: The date on the check is May one, nineteen ninety three.

227
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Speaker 3: There is a.

228
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:28,160
Speaker 1: Medicare logo in the top left hand corner, and the

229
00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,560
Speaker 1: other detail written on the check comes under the heading reference.

230
00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:36,880
Speaker 1: It states simply Missus b Winfield five Stroke forty two

231
00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:41,000
Speaker 1: Byron Street, Lennox Head. Of course, that's the address of

232
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Speaker 1: the townhouse owned by Shirley Taylor, the one which Bromwin

233
00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:47,800
Speaker 1: started renting in March when she and the girls moved

234
00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:51,200
Speaker 1: out of the Sandstone Crescent House, and where John changed

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00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,320
Speaker 1: a lock so that her keys would not let her

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00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:53,960
Speaker 1: get back in.

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Speaker 3: For completeness, is.

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Speaker 1: John earlier in his interview with Glenn Taylor mentioning doctor

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00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:05,600
Speaker 1: Hughes the paye for the Medicare check. She reckons.

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00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:08,840
Speaker 8: She told me just before we separated that she had

241
00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:12,120
Speaker 8: a nervous breakdown in the January of nineteen ninety three,

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Speaker 8: all right, and I said to her, you know, what's

243
00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:18,880
Speaker 8: a nervous breakdown? I've heard of it, but can you

244
00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,640
Speaker 8: tell me what it is? You know, I sort of

245
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:26,040
Speaker 8: didn't understand, but she reckoned. She had a nervous breakdown

246
00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:29,360
Speaker 8: and she went to see the doctor in Lenox I

247
00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,440
Speaker 8: don't know if it was doctor Watson or doctor Hughes.

248
00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:34,360
Speaker 8: I don't know which one it was.

249
00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:38,960
Speaker 1: Later Glen Taylor would go to see the doctors bromwin

250
00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:42,960
Speaker 1: was known to have consulted, and nobody had any record

251
00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:46,840
Speaker 1: or recollection of treatment of bromin for a nervous breakdown.

252
00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:51,920
Speaker 1: A voice actor will read the brief statement which doctor

253
00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:56,040
Speaker 1: Francis Hughes signed on September seven, nineteen ninety eight, at

254
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Speaker 1: the Lenox Head Medical Center, where his clinic was situated.

255
00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,840
Speaker 9: My age is seventy seven. I hold the degrees of

256
00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:09,480
Speaker 9: Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Surgery, and Bachelor of Arts

257
00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:14,560
Speaker 9: and Obstetrics. I graduated from the University of Dublin, Ireland

258
00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:19,240
Speaker 9: in nineteen forty seven. On the fifteenth of April nineteen

259
00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:23,640
Speaker 9: ninety three, I saw Bronwyn Winfield at my surgery at

260
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Speaker 9: the Lennox Head Medical Center. She informed me that she

261
00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:31,240
Speaker 9: thought she might have AIDS and requested to be sent

262
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:35,000
Speaker 9: for a blood test. She also informed me that she

263
00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:38,480
Speaker 9: was separated from her husband and that he was waking

264
00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,760
Speaker 9: her up several times at night and she was very tired.

265
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Speaker 9: She didn't elaborate any further in relation to this at

266
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Speaker 9: the time to my knowledge, and I don't recall asking

267
00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:54,600
Speaker 9: her anything further about her domestic matters. I arranged for

268
00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:58,359
Speaker 9: her to have a blood test on the twenty first

269
00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:01,840
Speaker 9: of April nineteen ninety three. Her blood test results were

270
00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:07,000
Speaker 9: received at my surgery, which revealed a negative result. I

271
00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,960
Speaker 9: do not recall whether she checked up on her test results,

272
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,400
Speaker 9: but most people checked by telephoning the surgery a couple

273
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,240
Speaker 9: of days later. I do not make a note on

274
00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:18,840
Speaker 9: the person's file of whether they have inquired or not.

275
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,200
Speaker 9: I did not make any comment on her file as

276
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:26,320
Speaker 9: to her manner or demeanor during that appointment. I have

277
00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,960
Speaker 9: not seen Bronwyn Winfield since that appointment on the fifteenth

278
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,040
Speaker 9: of April nineteen ninety three.

279
00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:36,920
Speaker 1: Before returning to the mystery surrounding the Medicare check, I'll

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00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,480
Speaker 1: try to summarize two matters that come out of the

281
00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:44,119
Speaker 1: statement of doctor Hughes. His assertion that broman had told

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00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,480
Speaker 1: him that her estranged husband, John was waking her up

283
00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:51,919
Speaker 1: several times at night, resulting in fatigue. Is similar to

284
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:56,160
Speaker 1: disclosures by Bromman to others that John was telephoning at

285
00:18:56,200 --> 00:19:01,359
Speaker 1: all times and harassing her. Here's Bromwin's cousin and good friend,

286
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,680
Speaker 1: Megan Reed, speaking to me at her home on Sydney's

287
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:05,520
Speaker 1: Northern Beaches.

288
00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:09,720
Speaker 10: I'd be on the phone talking to her at her

289
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:13,280
Speaker 10: flat when she moved into Bayron Street and you here

290
00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:18,160
Speaker 10: screaming outside, let me let me. And she actually tore

291
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,119
Speaker 10: the phone off the wall at Montboy to something.

292
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,080
Speaker 1: And Bronwyn's sister Kim Marshall.

293
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,359
Speaker 11: I was even on the phone when he was banging

294
00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:31,920
Speaker 11: on the Brewers down at the Fats.

295
00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:37,040
Speaker 1: The reference by doctor Hughes to Bromwin's blood test for

296
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:42,320
Speaker 1: HIV and the negative result has a longer tail. Bromwin

297
00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:47,080
Speaker 1: was worried about sexually transmitted disease. She believed that John

298
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:51,440
Speaker 1: had been seeing someone else. I'm not aware of evidence

299
00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:56,359
Speaker 1: to confirm this belief. John was not asked about extramarital

300
00:19:56,440 --> 00:20:00,960
Speaker 1: relationships during his interview with Detective Taylor. That Bromwin had

301
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,520
Speaker 1: been worried about HIV or aides as it was more

302
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:08,240
Speaker 1: commonly known in nineteen ninety three for a couple of years.

303
00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,439
Speaker 12: I joined the Lenox Heead Medical Center in April nineteen

304
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:16,520
Speaker 12: ninety and have seen Bronwyn Winfield thirteen times for general

305
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:17,240
Speaker 12: medical care.

306
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,040
Speaker 1: She went to see doctor Susan Mitchell in February nineteen

307
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:26,119
Speaker 1: ninety one in what was described as a highly agitated state.

308
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:31,560
Speaker 12: Presented highly agitated and requested that this consultation be kept

309
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:35,560
Speaker 12: separate to our usual family group record. She said that

310
00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,720
Speaker 12: the woman John had had an affair with six years previously,

311
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:40,960
Speaker 12: leading to an earlier marital.

312
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:42,680
Speaker 2: Separation, had been confirmed.

313
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:47,920
Speaker 12: HIV positive blood was collected and returned HIV negatives.

314
00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:54,000
Speaker 1: February nineteen ninety one must have been a particularly difficult.

315
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:55,320
Speaker 3: Time in Bromwin's adult life.

316
00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,560
Speaker 1: It was just nine days after she had an abortion,

317
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:03,040
Speaker 1: which doctor Mitchell had helped arrange with a referral to

318
00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:07,320
Speaker 1: another doctor. The abortion occurred in the twelfth week of

319
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:13,080
Speaker 1: Bromwin's pregnancy. Bromwin's blood test for HIV in February nineteen

320
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,760
Speaker 1: ninety one was, of course negative, and it was negative

321
00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,879
Speaker 1: in April nineteen ninety three too, when she went to

322
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:25,000
Speaker 1: see doctor Francis Hughes. Bronwyn was in good physical health

323
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:30,240
Speaker 1: when she vanished. Now, Medicare's payments system is much more

324
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:36,080
Speaker 1: advanced now and hardly anyone uses bank checks anymore. John

325
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:40,280
Speaker 1: appeared definite in his nineteen ninety eight interview with Glenn

326
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:44,160
Speaker 1: Taylor that the Medicare check had been signed by Bromwin.

327
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,440
Speaker 1: John also appeared definite that the check was not in

328
00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,680
Speaker 1: the kitchen of the house in Sandstone Crescent when John

329
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,480
Speaker 1: returned to the house from Sydney on the evening of Sunday,

330
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Speaker 1: May sixteenth, nineteen ninety three, the last time Bromwann was

331
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:05,440
Speaker 1: seen and confirmed to be alive. The Medicare check, according

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00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,440
Speaker 1: to John, was not there when he returned to the

333
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 1: house from Sydney again on about May twenty seven, after

334
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:17,159
Speaker 1: some ten days away in Sydney. John's version is that

335
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 1: when he went to Sydney with Crystal and Lauren over

336
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:26,480
Speaker 1: their school holidays in July, Bronwyn came back. On his version,

337
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,680
Speaker 1: she must have slipped quietly back into the house. She

338
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,359
Speaker 1: must have taken some clothing from the house when she

339
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:38,639
Speaker 1: left again, and thoughtfully. On John's version, Bromwin must have

340
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 1: signed the Medicare check which was payable to doctor Hughes,

341
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,679
Speaker 1: but less thoughtfully Bromwyn left the check in the kitchen

342
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,680
Speaker 1: for John to deal with. In my view, John's evidence

343
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:54,639
Speaker 1: around the Medicare check, evidence which John spoke to Bromin's

344
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 1: family and friends about in nineteen ninety three and to

345
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:02,000
Speaker 1: police in nineteen ninety eight when he was relying on

346
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,920
Speaker 1: it as proof of life for Bromwin, is some of

347
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 1: the most damaging evidence against John because none of it

348
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 1: makes rational sense. And that's before we talk about the

349
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:18,879
Speaker 1: signature purportedly Bronwin's signature, which is suspiciously very different to

350
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:20,359
Speaker 1: her Nolan signature.

351
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 3: Here's deb Hall and Murray Nolan.

352
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 13: Because I remember this conversation in July of that year.

353
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 13: John had been in Sydney and said, did I had

354
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,640
Speaker 13: I seen Bromwin during the school holidays in the July

355
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 13: school holidays? And I said no, why And he said, well,

356
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 13: she's been back to the house. See what do you

357
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 13: mean because when? And he said, oh, she's been here.

358
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 13: And I said, Pat, do you know that?

359
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 5: John?

360
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 4: Oh?

361
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:49,680
Speaker 13: Well, if I had all these bags of clothes in

362
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 13: the garage and half of them have gone, and there's

363
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 13: a Medicare check being left on the table, and I went, Nah, no,

364
00:23:58,880 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 13: you know, I'm saying this.

365
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 2: I can't believe that, John. When did she come back?

366
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 1: Nobody saw her, nobody heard her.

367
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:05,200
Speaker 2: How did she get here?

368
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 13: And why would she not come and tell anybody she's

369
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 13: the back. Oh, she's definitely bet in here, you kept

370
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 13: saying to me, because he went to Sydney in those

371
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:17,679
Speaker 13: July holidays with the kids to get these bags of clothes,

372
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 13: which we found out through Andrew were put in this

373
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 13: little manhole that's twelk foot off the ground to get

374
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 13: up to that manhole to get the bags. How did

375
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 13: she know the clothes were in there? It doesn't make sense.

376
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 13: It's not logical. And not only that, how did she

377
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 13: carry all these bags on her own? We would have

378
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 13: heard something. Murray was home that time during the day.

379
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 13: Was he still recovering from his back injury so he

380
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 13: couldn't work because he was working as a build up.

381
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:42,679
Speaker 2: I was at work and I certainly didn't see her.

382
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 13: And if she'd come back at night, surely we would

383
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 13: have hurt some commotion or.

384
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 4: Something up there.

385
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 2: You would have heard the garage door goer.

386
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 13: Because it was a noisy garage anyway, on Saturday when

387
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 13: we were talking about that.

388
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 2: Again, had bindly dawned on me and I said, well,

389
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 2: how did she get in?

390
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,880
Speaker 13: Because he had the keys in Sydney, and if she's

391
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,440
Speaker 13: come back during that time when he wasn't there, I

392
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:02,680
Speaker 13: don't know how she would have got in.

393
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 1: We know that back on Friday May fourteen, nineteen ninety three,

394
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,160
Speaker 1: when Bromin was distressed at being unable to get back

395
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 1: into her own home, she called a locksmith out to

396
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:15,919
Speaker 1: Sandstone Crescent.

397
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,639
Speaker 3: Murray explains it this way, when.

398
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 1: The Barron locksmith come there and cut her a key

399
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 1: for the front door on the Briday night.

400
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 5: But they would have just cut one key just to

401
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 5: get her in. They wouldn't have tout two keys. That

402
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 5: is my feury in right from when.

403
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 13: Actually had the old keys to the house, but she'd

404
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 13: had the feet of the deadlock that John put on

405
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 13: in the Joy school holiday.

406
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 5: She's apparently come back to the house.

407
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 2: Well, if he's saying that she'd come back in, so

408
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 2: there's that way she had.

409
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 3: A couldie how'd she get in?

410
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 1: John spoke to a number of people about Bromman's purported

411
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 1: visit to the house with a Medicare check. The recollections

412
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,919
Speaker 1: of those people are good now. They must have been

413
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,880
Speaker 1: even better many years ago when their recollections were put

414
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 1: into police statements during Glenn Taylor's investigation from nineteen ninety

415
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 1: eight and then during George Radmore's cold case review for

416
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:17,120
Speaker 1: the Unsolved Homicide Unit in two thousand and nine and ten.

417
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 3: Here's Megan reading from one of her statements.

418
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 14: I distinctly remember John ringing me after riding home and

419
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 14: supposedly finding that Bronwin had returned to the house while

420
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 14: he'd been in Sydney. John was very excited, relieved and elated,

421
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 14: and he stated, guess what. I've just walked into the

422
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 14: house and Bronwin has been home. It's good news. She's okay.

423
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,400
Speaker 14: She has left a medicare check which wasn't there before

424
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 14: I left, and taken some photos of the children. She

425
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:48,920
Speaker 14: must have a boyfriend because she's taken a pair of

426
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 14: jeans and a jumper of mine. I actually said to him,

427
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 14: well where is she? He said, well, she's obviously got

428
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 14: a new man, because my jeans and jumper are missing.

429
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 14: Thought that this was suspicious as it did not make sense,

430
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 14: and I thought that he had orchestrated the whole thing.

431
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 14: I also thought it was ridiculous that she would leave

432
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 14: a Medicare check yet still not touch any of her

433
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 14: own bank accounts.

434
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 1: There are other fundamental problems with John's evidence about Brommin's

435
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: purported return to the house in July nineteen ninety three

436
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 1: and her alleged signing of the Medicare check. Will go

437
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,679
Speaker 1: through these, but were those problems given a pass by

438
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:36,160
Speaker 1: detectives Graham Diskin and Wayne Temby in nineteen ninety three

439
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 1: because of the misreading of the time of a call

440
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:43,640
Speaker 1: on the Sandstone Crescent telephone bill and as a result,

441
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 1: a misguided belief that Bromwin actually went back to the

442
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 1: house in the early hours of Monday, May seventeen to

443
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 1: use a home phone to check lotto results at two

444
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 1: thirteen in the morning. Here's Glenn Taylor in one of

445
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: my meetings with him and lennox Head. They believe that

446
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: she'd come back to the house.

447
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 15: During our reinvestigation and looking at the telephone bill, we

448
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 15: quickly established that it wasn't two thirteen am.

449
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,719
Speaker 1: It was two thirteen pm, and it was the day before.

450
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 15: It was the afternoon just prior to her disappearance some

451
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 15: weeks later, and the running shirts indicated this. John Winfield

452
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 15: contacted the police, the detectives at that time that we're

453
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 15: looking into the matter and said Roma must have been

454
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 15: back at the house because there's been a Medicare check.

455
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 15: It was addressed to a local doctor, and those were

456
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 15: the days where the lock of the patient goes to

457
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 15: her doctor and then Nedicare would send a check made

458
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 15: parable to the doctor and then the patient pays the

459
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 15: difference of the bill. This particular check was addressed to

460
00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 15: a local doctor at Lenox Head, but it or a

461
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 15: signature which should have been a signature for the doctor.

462
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 1: It had a signature allegedly rom wingfel on the check.

463
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 3: Just to reflect on that for a moment.

464
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 1: The check should not have been signed by anyone other

465
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: than the payee, doctor Hughes, but a signature which does

466
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 1: not look like Bromwin's signature appeared on that check. Bromwin

467
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 1: regularly saw doctors for herself and her daughters. She dealt

468
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 1: with the Medicare system. It is highly unlikely in my view,

469
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 1: that she would have erroneously believed that she needed to

470
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 1: sign the check. John didn't deal with those administrative things

471
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 1: while Bromwin was his partner. So John declared, look, she's

472
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 1: lean back to the house. She's left a check here

473
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 1: that she.

474
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 15: Signed was on the table that wasn't here before. And

475
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 15: also she's taken some clothes and she's even taken one

476
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 15: pair of my jeans. So he was trying to indicate

477
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 15: to the He looked, she's very much alive and she's

478
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 15: gone on some extended holiday without contacting the children.

479
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: Here are Michelle and Dandy at their home in the Shire.

480
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 4: Clarity for me time when he made that phone call

481
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 4: after the school holidays, we only briefly saw the girls

482
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 4: in him on that trip. I believe he stayed out

483
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 4: at his brother Pete and Louise out in Ingodoon, then

484
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 4: returned home to Lennox, to the Sandstone Crescent and he

485
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 4: made a phone call and he said, I've just got

486
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 4: back to the house.

487
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 1: Bromwin must have been here.

488
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 4: There's a Medicare check on the bench, and there's two

489
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 4: bags of clothes missing. I remember having that conversation with him,

490
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 4: and I just remember hanging the phone up and I

491
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 4: turned around her. I just looked at Michelle and I

492
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 4: just saw it straight out to myself the bus has

493
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 4: done something that was just clarity straightaway as soon as

494
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 4: that phone call, none of it made sense.

495
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 1: Did he know that you suspected him over Broman's disappearance

496
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: at the early days.

497
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 4: I think he knew that a minute he hung up

498
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 4: the phone making that phone call all the way back

499
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 4: in July because of the way you spoke to him. Well,

500
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 4: I'm one hundred percent sure I sent you with that

501
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 4: phone called. That just doesn't make sense. Why would she

502
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 4: sneak back into the house while you're away and not

503
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 4: she Debbi next door and tell her and tell someone

504
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 4: in Lenny's head that she's okay?

505
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: What are you thinking?

506
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 4: I still remember this day hanging up the phone and

507
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 4: turned around at Michelle and just gone that start right.

508
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 3: No way in the world.

509
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 1: Why would she sign a check that doesn't need signing?

510
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 16: Yeah, and she worked in a beat in younger times.

511
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 16: She knew she wasn't silly with checks and naturing you

512
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 16: people didn't sign their own Medicare check. Feasibly that check

513
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 16: was sent to that dress steps on there, which was

514
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 16: Byron's and could possibly have been inside the handbait.

515
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: Well, once you've started.

516
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 4: Thinking there's a bit of hoot on me here, magically,

517
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 4: go back home, produce this check. That could have been

518
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 4: in the house the whole time. We don't know, but

519
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 4: it could have been in the house the whole time.

520
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 4: Magically produced this check. The police believe that that's a

521
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 4: forward signature.

522
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 3: Who signed it?

523
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 4: The bags have closed, he refers to he actually put

524
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 4: inside the manhole in the roost base. How would Bromin

525
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 4: know to find her bags have closed in the roosts base?

526
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 4: Brombin was always someone that was very, very feminine in ways.

527
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 4: There's no one in the world w sister, I know it.

528
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 4: So there's no way the world mysh sister would have

529
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 4: gone and got a step ladder and bring precariously three

530
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 4: meters or two and a half meters in the air,

531
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 4: trying to meanhandle garbage bags, two garbage bags of clothes

532
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 4: out of a manhole. How would you even know to look?

533
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 1: Bit? None of it makes sense, mate, none of it.

534
00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 1: None of it. Well before the release of the first

535
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: episode of Bronwin, Kim Marshall told me that she saw

536
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 1: the Medicare check when she visited Lennox Head in June

537
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three. Her trip was meant to be a

538
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 1: long overdue catch up with Bromwan. They had been planning

539
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: it for some time.

540
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 17: I spoke to her every day on the phone about

541
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 17: my plane flight, what time my plane would rite, when

542
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:47,479
Speaker 17: I'd be going to hair Expo.

543
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 2: Then I'd be getting on the Greyhound bus.

544
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 17: We found the buses out together, what time the bus

545
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 17: would arrive in Ballina. Because I'd never had an adult

546
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 17: experience with Ronnie, it was always as the youngest child

547
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 17: wild but this time it was going to be adopt

548
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 17: to adult, and so we had all these wonderful twoks.

549
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,279
Speaker 11: It's going to be so exciting. I'll be able to

550
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 11: show you all my dresses in my wardrobe.

551
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 1: When Brommin disappeared, neither Kim nor her mother, Barbara, suspected

552
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 1: that John had been involved in foul play, so Kim

553
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 1: ended up staying in the house with Crystal, Lauren and

554
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 1: John in June, just weeks after Broman's disappearance and shortly

555
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: before John took the girls to Sydney for the July

556
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 1: school holidays.

557
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 11: John saying that Bromin's returned to the house and she

558
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 11: signed it. The whole piece of evidence that it's missing

559
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 11: is that I was in the house at week three

560
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 11: after Bromwin, going straight after the June Long Weekend, I

561
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 11: was there that medi Care check was already there.

562
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 1: You're saying it's the same check.

563
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 2: Yes, Yes, they.

564
00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 11: Sent the Mediicare check off to Cottognyard, those people that

565
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 11: look at writing, and they said, yes, give us the letters,

566
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 11: all the actual comparisons of handwriting.

567
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 3: A month before the.

568
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 1: First episode of Bromwin, Kim talked to me again about

569
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 1: her observations from nineteen ninety three.

570
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 3: She understood the potential significance.

571
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 11: What am I to do with my valuable and precious

572
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:27,879
Speaker 11: information about the Medicare check?

573
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 2: And I can leave that question with you.

574
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 11: But this is a question I keep asking Andrew all

575
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:39,320
Speaker 11: the time because my information about the Medicare check, I

576
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 11: believe is crucial and very very serious.

577
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 1: Okay, let's get your information about the Medicare check on

578
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 1: the record, So just describe.

579
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 3: It for me please.

580
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 1: Kim explained that, in her view, previous police investigations, including

581
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 1: the most important one by the detective give Sergeant Glenn Taylor,

582
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 1: had effectively sidelined her. As a result, her first hand

583
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,439
Speaker 1: knowledge of the Medicare check had not been put into

584
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 1: a formal statement.

585
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,320
Speaker 11: My voice had not been heard by any of the

586
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,879
Speaker 11: police force, nor my brother or my sister in law

587
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 11: being the young girl that I was that lived at

588
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 11: the house in Lennox just after Bromwin was no longer there.

589
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 11: That Medicare check I have cited, I have touched, and

590
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 11: please don't think that I'm a horrible human for sayings

591
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 11: My brother and my sister in law followed the police's

592
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:46,320
Speaker 11: directive orders to keep my mother and myself out of

593
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 11: any type of involvement in Brahmin's missing person case or

594
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:51,880
Speaker 11: the inquest.

595
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:54,320
Speaker 2: It's just been totally ignored.

596
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 11: Is it because people are scared that they got it

597
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 11: roll by ignoring my infa before all?

598
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 1: Right, when you were there in the days and weeks

599
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 1: after Bromman disappeared, Yes, you saw the Medicare check at

600
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:11,720
Speaker 1: the house.

601
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 2: Yes, and had a conversation in depth with Jonathan about it.

602
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 3: What did you see and what did you talk to

603
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 3: him about?

604
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 11: The Medicare check was made out to a provider that

605
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 11: Bromman had gone to for a general visit. It was

606
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 11: the refund check for the payment that in the old

607
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 11: days you had to sign and then mail back to

608
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:42,320
Speaker 11: the practitioner. And so that check was signed and that

609
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:46,320
Speaker 11: check was sitting in full view well before Jonason traveled

610
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 11: down to Sydney with the kids in the school holidays,

611
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:54,280
Speaker 11: where he rang me and a number of other family

612
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 11: members saying, Bromwin's been to the house. There's a Medicare

613
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 11: check on the table, and she's removed a few of

614
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 11: her clothes from the wardrobe, and she's taken a pair

615
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 11: of my genes.

616
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: I just need to clarify a couple of things, Kim.

617
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 1: So the Medicare check was there when you went to

618
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:18,919
Speaker 1: the house after Broman disappeared, correct, But then that means

619
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,760
Speaker 1: the Medicare check could have been at the house before

620
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 1: you arrived.

621
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 2: Correct.

622
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 11: He's used the Medicare check as a form of evidence

623
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:35,760
Speaker 11: that Broman has returned to the house after I visited

624
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:37,720
Speaker 11: and stayed at the house.

625
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 2: I actually saw it signed, it was all ready to

626
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 2: go back.

627
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 11: I have a conversation in detail with Jonason about it

628
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 11: because I love the fact of all the letter writing

629
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 11: that's happened over the years that Rowan's crinching is so beautiful,

630
00:38:55,239 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 11: like my mother's running writing and my own writing. And

631
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 11: I made the comment as how beautiful all of us

632
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 11: ladies in the family have the most beautiful writing.

633
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 1: You are confident that Bromin did in fact sign that check. Yes,

634
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 1: now here's the rub. Kim is the first to acknowledge

635
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:21,239
Speaker 1: that she is not a handwriting expert. However, when she

636
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,879
Speaker 1: saw the check in June nineteen ninety three, it bore

637
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,280
Speaker 1: what appeared to her at the time to be Bromwin's signature,

638
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 1: even though there would have been no reason whatsoever for

639
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 1: Bromwin or anyone other than the payee doctor Hughes to

640
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 1: sign it.

641
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 3: But put that aside for the time being.

642
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 1: The key thing about what Kim says is that it

643
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 1: directly contradicts John's version about the check turning up at

644
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 1: the house while John and the girls were in Sydney

645
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:56,919
Speaker 1: over the July school holidays. John's reliance on that check

646
00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:00,879
Speaker 1: materializing as a new proof of life of Bromwin being

647
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 1: at the house while John, Crystal and Lauren were away

648
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 1: in July is shot to pieces by kim sighting of

649
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 1: the check in June.

650
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 18: I know that it was there in the house before

651
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 18: he traveled to Sydney and rang everybody and said, Bromwin's

652
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 18: been in the house and Medicare check has appeared in

653
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:26,800
Speaker 18: the house.

654
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 2: Next day that the check was there before.

655
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 1: Okay, let me just be Devil's advocate. Why would he

656
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 1: want to rely on that when he knows that you,

657
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 1: if you were questioned by police, would say, well, that's

658
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 1: not true. It was already signed, and John and I

659
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 1: even talked about it while I was staying there.

660
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:52,240
Speaker 2: I've been always discounted and dismissed.

661
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 11: In this instance, it's happened again, and I just don't

662
00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 11: understand why it's not.

663
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:02,280
Speaker 2: A significant piece of evidence.

664
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 11: I raised the Medicare check to them when I was

665
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,800
Speaker 11: actually at the Corona inquest.

666
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:12,360
Speaker 2: I was very politely just told to go away and

667
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 2: keep quiet. They actually asked me not to attend one

668
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 2: of the days.

669
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 1: Andy Reid has told me that he remembered Kim coming

670
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:27,320
Speaker 1: to him about her observations of the Medicare check during

671
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:31,359
Speaker 1: the inquest. Andy said that he does not know why

672
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 1: a statement was not taken from Kim then, or earlier

673
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 1: or subsequently. I'm going to look at this again in

674
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 1: upcoming episodes when we go through the evidence and testimony

675
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:47,239
Speaker 1: which unfolded over five days of public hearings at the

676
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,240
Speaker 1: two thousand and two inquest in the town of Lismore.

677
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 1: West of Lennox Head. There is some remarkable material in

678
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 1: the transcripts and some very vigorous cross examination of key witnesses.

679
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 1: According to KIM, detectives including George Radmore from the Unsolved

680
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 1: Homicide Unit, who subsequently focused on the forged signature angle

681
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 1: with analysis by expert handwriting examiners at New Scotland Yard

682
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 1: in London, have.

683
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 11: Gone down the wrong part of investigation and their two

684
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 11: embarrassed to reverse it.

685
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 1: But in my view, George Radmore and his team of

686
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 1: detectives were diligent and professional in sending multiple documents bearing

687
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 1: Bromwin's signature to handwriting examiners in the United Kingdom. Bromwin's cousin,

688
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 1: Megan Reid, was told about the outcome of that analysis.

689
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:43,880
Speaker 14: The Scotland Yard said it wasn't persecutor.

690
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 1: For this podcast series, a respected handwriting expert in Australia,

691
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 1: Taraney Dewhurst, looked at just one sample of Bromwin's known

692
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: and confirmed signature and the signature on a very poor

693
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 1: photocopy of the Medicare check. Tarney has helped me with

694
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: handwriting analysis in the past. Some listeners will have heard

695
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 1: her voice in the Night Driver series Tarney Dewhurst identified

696
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 1: obvious differences in the two Bronwyn Winfield signatures, which, in

697
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 1: her view, warrant further examination with better quality specimens. Lay

698
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:27,439
Speaker 1: people with no expertise in handwriting analysis can readily see

699
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: the differences too. Detectives working with George Radmore on the

700
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:36,760
Speaker 1: case obtained good comparison samples during their cold case review

701
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 1: fourteen years ago of Bromwyn's alleged murder. Why isn't it possible, though, Kim,

702
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:47,720
Speaker 1: that John, for example, if we pick up the police case,

703
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:52,839
Speaker 1: that John did forge Bromwin's signature, and that's what you saw,

704
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 1: and he just did a really.

705
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 3: Good job of it.

706
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 11: And he could have because I've got an answer for

707
00:43:57,239 --> 00:43:59,320
Speaker 11: that as well, because I could forge it.

708
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 1: So you're not ruling out that he may have forged it.

709
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 2: Yes, it's correct, most definitely in preparation for use.

710
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 11: Definitely. No one's put that question to me. Am I

711
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 11: being ignored because I was young? Am I being ignored

712
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 11: because of the mental health? Am I being ignored because

713
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 11: I'm a female? And they're the questions that I live

714
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:23,239
Speaker 11: with every day for many, many years, and they're destroying.

715
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 1: Kim Marshall was twenty when the trip she had planned

716
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 1: to lennox Head to spend time with her sister Bromwin

717
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 1: went sideways. If there had been a modern police response

718
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 1: to the disappearance of Bromwin, detectives would have descended on

719
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 1: that house and declared it a possible crime scene. They

720
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 1: would have had scientific officers combing it for evidence, but

721
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,800
Speaker 1: instead life went on as if nothing much had changed.

722
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,400
Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety three. Kim did not know Bromman with

723
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 1: anything like the kind of familiarity of most siblings.

724
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 3: They had never together.

725
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 1: Bromwin did not know of Kim's existence until Kim was four,

726
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 1: but they were looking forward to getting to know each

727
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:12,360
Speaker 1: other better during the June visit, and that is another obvious,

728
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 1: although rarely pressed, reason to doubt that Bromwin would suddenly

729
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:19,799
Speaker 1: up and leave with no explanation to Kim, with whom

730
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 1: she had been talking and planning things in their phone

731
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:27,400
Speaker 1: chats between Hobart and lennox Head. It is hard to

732
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: fathom now why Kim's visit went ahead in Bromwin's absence,

733
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 1: as she and John had been separated for seven weeks

734
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 1: before she vanished. Kim sleeping under the same roof as

735
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 1: John in Sandstone Crescent under those bizarre circumstances must have

736
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:50,320
Speaker 1: been weird. It's hard to imagine the introverted John welcoming

737
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:54,280
Speaker 1: bubbly Kim, a younger woman whom he would five years

738
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:59,399
Speaker 1: later call the illegitimate one. As a result of many

739
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:03,360
Speaker 1: conversation and interviews, I'm confident that Bromwin's side of the

740
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 1: family harbored a foreboding about John relatively early, from the

741
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 1: third week of May, when Bromwin neither turned up for

742
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 1: work at Eden's Takeaway nor came back from a so

743
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:19,760
Speaker 1: called break. Perhaps the read family suspicions had not become

744
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 1: so serious as to call off Kim's visit.

745
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 3: In mid June.

746
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:29,359
Speaker 11: I wrived ten to fourteen days after she'd lost Yeah,

747
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 11: I demanded to go to the police station.

748
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 2: When I got there, John waited for me at the

749
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 2: bus stop.

750
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 11: We went up to the house and I said, I

751
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 11: want to go down to the police station now, and

752
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 11: John took me down straight away, only to the police station.

753
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:44,720
Speaker 11: And I can tell you now, after going through everything,

754
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 11: they have not written down a single thing that I said.

755
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 2: When only to the police station.

756
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:55,360
Speaker 11: There's a brief mention from Discan that I had visited

757
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 11: the station, and I don't understand why he didn't take

758
00:46:58,760 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 11: any notes.

759
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 1: If the police running sheets are accurate in relation to

760
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:08,240
Speaker 1: Kim stay, she arrived in Lenox on June fourteen.

761
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:15,360
Speaker 11: As I was living there with John, I became very frightened.

762
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:18,720
Speaker 11: John went to be so early because he'd get away

763
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:21,279
Speaker 11: from me as quick as he could, so I'd be

764
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:22,920
Speaker 11: awake in the house by myself.

765
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 2: I started searching around the house.

766
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 11: I'd look at the window, thinking she got a knock

767
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 11: on the window and say here, come here quickly.

768
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:36,520
Speaker 1: A stay of ten days would have seen Kim say

769
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 1: goodbye to John, Lauren and Crystal. On June twenty four

770
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 1: Kim headed north to Surface Paradise on Queensland's Gold Coast.

771
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 1: The timing fits with the police running sheets noting that

772
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:53,360
Speaker 1: John told police he left Lennox head on June twenty

773
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 1: six for the visit to Sydney with Lauren and Crystal.

774
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 3: Over the course of this pod cast series, you have.

775
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:06,800
Speaker 1: Only very briefly heard about Bromwin and Andy's younger half sister, Melissa.

776
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 1: Melissa's mother is Jennifer, who married Andy and Bromman's father, Philip.

777
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:17,280
Speaker 1: Melissa lives in Sydney, and she has been privately following

778
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 1: the podcast very closely. While there has been no contact

779
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 1: between Melissa and Andy and other read relations for many years.

780
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 3: You are going to hear from Melissa in the.

781
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 1: Next episode because she is breaking her silence.

782
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,840
Speaker 19: Broma would never have left those girls. Barba left Bromwin

783
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,320
Speaker 19: when she was very small. It's not something that Bromlin

784
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 19: would have ever wanted to see happen to her children.

785
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 19: We discussed it, We talked about it had happened to her.

786
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 19: She knew how it felt. She would have taken them

787
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:50,399
Speaker 19: if she disappeared. She would have disappeared with those two

788
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 19: young children by her side.

789
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 2: She would never left those children.

790
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:01,840
Speaker 1: Melissa and Bromwin were close. Kim recalled that back in

791
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:06,360
Speaker 1: June nineteen ninety three, Melissa was deeply concerned and she

792
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:10,280
Speaker 1: did not want Kim near John because when.

793
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:13,399
Speaker 11: She found out I was in the house, she thought

794
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,919
Speaker 11: that that was inappropriate and that she needed to check

795
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 11: to see if I was okay. We were telling the

796
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:25,400
Speaker 11: police that we were frightened and suspicious that something was

797
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:25,960
Speaker 11: going on.

798
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:31,239
Speaker 1: It is impossible to know how many police records and

799
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:35,800
Speaker 1: running sheets from nineteen ninety three have gone missing. I

800
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 1: have not cited one which notes the concerns of Melissa

801
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 1: and Kim from that time. Family tensions and unresolved issues

802
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 1: between Kim and Andy are unfortunately always close to the surface.

803
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 3: In another interview with Kim, she became.

804
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:57,320
Speaker 1: Emotional while reflecting on her proximity to John in June

805
00:49:57,440 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three.

806
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 2: Only Andrew put me in that house. He put me

807
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:05,239
Speaker 2: in that house. He made me go up there so

808
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 2: I could have eyes on Jonathan. So now I understand,

809
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:10,840
Speaker 2: and this has nothing to do with everything.

810
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:14,480
Speaker 20: He knew that Jonathan had done something bad and still

811
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 20: set me up to live in that house. And that's

812
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 20: why Melissa got in the car to come up to

813
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:22,720
Speaker 20: make sure it was safe, because she was the only

814
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:24,920
Speaker 20: one that thought it was the Broxic to do.

815
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 3: I asked Andy about this, so Andie.

816
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 1: In one of my conversations with Kim, she becomes quite

817
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:40,840
Speaker 1: distressed because in her mind, she's been asked by you.

818
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:44,239
Speaker 3: Or you've let her go up there.

819
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:49,319
Speaker 1: In mid June, so that's a month after Bromins disappeared.

820
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:54,319
Speaker 4: I didn't actually ask let to go to Lennich Head.

821
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 4: I found out about it very very late. I remember

822
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:04,680
Speaker 4: saying to her or maybe you could possibly find out something.

823
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:08,399
Speaker 4: You could possibly find out some information. Anyone that found

824
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:10,360
Speaker 4: out about it would have been advised you to be

825
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:13,880
Speaker 4: very careful, don't push the wrong buttons, don't go too far.

826
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 21: She makes the point that she was only twenty and

827
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:22,880
Speaker 21: not very worldly wise, with a bit of reflection, she

828
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:28,040
Speaker 21: was probably potentially put it into some certainly an unusual

829
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:30,080
Speaker 21: situation and possibly a dangerous one.

830
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:33,399
Speaker 4: Well, with what we know now after the fact, one

831
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 4: hundred percent it was a dangerous thing. Learning more and

832
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:39,680
Speaker 4: more from her friends and finding more and more out,

833
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 4: we were one hundred percent very very suspicious by that stage.

834
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 4: Melissa visited on her way back from being on some

835
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:50,799
Speaker 4: sort of break up in Queensland.

836
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 1: What do you understand Melissa knew and did when she

837
00:51:56,160 --> 00:52:00,120
Speaker 1: discovered that Kim was staying at the house in Lennox head.

838
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:06,920
Speaker 4: Melissa advised King that she thought it was dangerous to

839
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:10,160
Speaker 4: be at the house when she found out that she

840
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:14,600
Speaker 4: was there, and advised that she should get out of it.

841
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:32,920
Speaker 1: Brown is written and investigated by me Headley Thomas as

842
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:37,680
Speaker 1: a podcast production for The Australian. If anyone has information

843
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:41,719
Speaker 1: which may help solve this cold case. Please contact me

844
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 1: confidentially by emailing Bronwyn at the Australian dot com dot Au.

845
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:51,840
Speaker 1: You can read more about this case and see a

846
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 1: range of photographs and other artwork at the website bronwynpodcast

847
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 1: dot com. Our subscribers and registered users here episodes first.

848
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:07,800
Speaker 1: The production and editorial team for Bromwin includes Claire Harvey,

849
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:13,759
Speaker 1: Kristin Amiet, Joshua Burton, Bridget, Ryan Bianca, far Marcus, Katie.

850
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:16,239
Speaker 3: Burns, Liam Mendez, Sean.

851
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 1: Callen, Matthew Condon and David Murray. Audio production for this

852
00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:25,320
Speaker 1: podcast series is by Wasabi Audio and original theme music

853
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 1: by Slade Gibson. We have been assisted by Madison Walsh,

854
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:31,280
Speaker 1: a relation of Bromwin Winfield.

855
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:34,799
Speaker 3: We can only do this kind of journalism with the.

856
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:39,280
Speaker 1: Support of our subscribers and our major sponsors like Harvey Norman.

857
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 1: For all of our exclusive stories, videos, maps, timelines and

858
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:48,879
Speaker 1: documents about this podcast and other podcasts including The Teacher's Pet,

859
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:53,680
Speaker 1: The Teachers Trial, The Teachers Accuser, Shandy's Story, Shandy's Legacy,

860
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:57,439
Speaker 1: and The Night Driver, go to the Australian dot com

861
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:00,480
Speaker 1: dot Au and subscribe s