WEBVTT - ‘A very dangerous man’: How Alex Antic is shaping the Liberals

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<v Speaker 1>From Schwartz Media. I'm Daniel James. This is seven am.

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<v Speaker 1>Alexander doesn't want to lead the Liberal Party. He wants

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<v Speaker 1>to reshape it, and he's already making headway. Senator Andy

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<v Speaker 1>calls himself an irrelevant backbencher, but he's installed allies, toppled moderates,

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<v Speaker 1>and pushed the party's politics to the edge. His playbook

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<v Speaker 1>mirrors Donald Trump's dominate the narrative, fight the culture wars,

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<v Speaker 1>and never aim for the center. Now he's turning disruption

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<v Speaker 1>into power, and moderates feared the party is becoming unelectable. Today,

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<v Speaker 1>senior reporter for the Saturday Paper, Jason kotsukis on the

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<v Speaker 1>rise of Alexanderik and the fight for the soul of

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<v Speaker 1>the Liberal Party. It's Monday, June twenty three. Jason. A

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<v Speaker 1>single photo of Liberal backbencher alex Antik posing with Donald

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<v Speaker 1>Trump really set things off last week. Tell me about

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<v Speaker 1>that post.

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<v Speaker 2>So, Daniel. As we all know, Anthony Albanezi has been

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<v Speaker 2>trying to get a meeting with the US President Donald Trump.

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<v Speaker 2>He thought he had one at the G seven summit

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<v Speaker 2>in Canada until Donald Trump suddenly changed the script and

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<v Speaker 2>said he was going back to Washington early, effectively standing

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<v Speaker 2>the Prime Minister up. Alexantik, the Senator from South Australia,

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<v Speaker 2>the Liberal powerbroker in that state. He was quick to

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<v Speaker 2>post this picture that he had of himself standing next

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<v Speaker 2>to Donald Trump with a caption bad luck at Elbow MP.

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<v Speaker 2>He doesn't meet with everyone. This is really very much

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<v Speaker 2>his style. Alexandik is of course number one on the

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<v Speaker 2>Liberal Senate ticket in South Australia. He comes from the

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<v Speaker 2>hard right of the Liberal Party and he's been able

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<v Speaker 2>to effectively take control of the Liberal Party machinery in

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<v Speaker 2>South Australia and he is the most powerful politician in

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<v Speaker 2>the Liberal Party in South Australia. He's someone that does

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<v Speaker 2>instill a bit of fear in that moderate wing of

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<v Speaker 2>the Liberal Party.

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<v Speaker 1>So is that why the photo itself stirred such a

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<v Speaker 1>big reaction within the party.

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<v Speaker 2>I think Donald Trump did so much damage to the

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<v Speaker 2>Liberal brand during the election campaign that we've all just

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<v Speaker 2>been through that to see a Liberal come out and

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<v Speaker 2>lean into that in such a public way did cause

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<v Speaker 2>quite a bit of groaning inside the parliamentary Liberal Party

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<v Speaker 2>because I guess what most people are thinking is, how

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<v Speaker 2>are we ever going to get back into government. If

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<v Speaker 2>we have people like Alex Antik posting photos of themselves

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<v Speaker 2>with Donald Trump and really trying to emulate Donald Trump

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<v Speaker 2>in the way they do politics here.

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<v Speaker 3>The welcome in the country is nothing more than something

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<v Speaker 3>wealthy city people love to do to make themselves feel good.

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<v Speaker 3>What does it say about our society when we commemorate

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<v Speaker 3>Anzac Day for a single day, yet we get a

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<v Speaker 3>whole month of pride? Now what is point? Young men

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<v Speaker 3>are entitled to feel let down by the manner in

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<v Speaker 3>which they're treated in modern Australia, let down by the

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<v Speaker 3>housing market, let down by the job market, and let

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<v Speaker 3>down by a society that continues to call them toxic.

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<v Speaker 1>So he is just a backbench So how much power

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<v Speaker 1>does he actually hold within the broader party.

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<v Speaker 2>Well within the broader party, many of his colleagues would

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<v Speaker 2>argue not much. And while he may not be on

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<v Speaker 2>the front bench, he does have regular guest appearances on

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<v Speaker 2>on Sky News.

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<v Speaker 4>Alex, you've heard what I have to say, tell me

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<v Speaker 4>what you think about the loss and our viewers outside

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<v Speaker 4>his viewers will not forgive me if I do not

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<v Speaker 4>say you should be the next leader of the Liberal Party.

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<v Speaker 1>So there I've said it.

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<v Speaker 2>So you often see him on Peter Kredlin's program, or

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<v Speaker 2>Rowan Dean's program, or Rita Panahi's program.

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<v Speaker 3>The tragedy of this is that people never really I

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<v Speaker 3>don't think, saw the very kind, very quick witted and

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<v Speaker 3>mischievously humored Peter Dutton out of all of this. I

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<v Speaker 3>wish that there had been more of that, this push

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<v Speaker 3>on the doge, but also out of countries like Argentina

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<v Speaker 3>that we're doing this two years ago under Havier Malay

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<v Speaker 3>are now showing that there's an appetite for lean, mean government,

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<v Speaker 3>so they shouldn't be And I.

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<v Speaker 2>Think he does have through that quite a bit of

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<v Speaker 2>influence on the parliamentary Liberal Party, and if he wants

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<v Speaker 2>to kick up a big stink on an issue, he's

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<v Speaker 2>probably going to be able to bring a group of

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<v Speaker 2>people with him. Alexanderik rose to kind of national consciousness

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<v Speaker 2>in March last year when he succeeded in demoting the

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<v Speaker 2>liberals number one Senate ticket holder Anne Rustin. And Rustin

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<v Speaker 2>is a nationally recognized figure. She's a former cabinet minister

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<v Speaker 2>in the Morrison government and she's also a prominent moderate

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<v Speaker 2>in the Liberal Party. And I think that really upset

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of liberals because there wasn't really any point

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<v Speaker 2>to it. It was just a way to demonstrate his

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<v Speaker 2>power to flex his muscles. And ultimately that means he's

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<v Speaker 2>a problem that the liberal leadership will have to deal.

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<v Speaker 1>With for this story, Jason, did you reach out to

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<v Speaker 1>Senator Antique for comment?

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<v Speaker 2>I did email him. I actually emailed his media advisor,

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<v Speaker 2>whose name I was told was Matthew. They wouldn't give

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<v Speaker 2>me his family name. They gave me an email address,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was Alexandik that replied to that email, and

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<v Speaker 2>he was quite irreverent. Was probably the tone that characterized

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<v Speaker 2>Alexandtik's reply to me, He said, Dear Jason, happy to

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<v Speaker 2>go with the following In inverted commas, he said, I

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<v Speaker 2>am always amused by approaches from journalists looking to write

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<v Speaker 2>a profile piece. But I can see why your outlet

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<v Speaker 2>is so interested in writing about me. So, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>a heavy tone of sarcasm there, and he goes on

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<v Speaker 2>one wonders how you will take my advocacy for small government,

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<v Speaker 2>individual rights, and family values. Surely you wouldn't just roll

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<v Speaker 2>out many of the commonly used phrases as adopted by

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<v Speaker 2>the left wing media such as far right or hard right,

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<v Speaker 2>and then he finishes off with a brush off but

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<v Speaker 2>also a bit of a wink here. If you can

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<v Speaker 2>forward me a link, I will read it when I

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<v Speaker 2>find a moment.

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<v Speaker 1>So he was just trying to betray himself as a

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<v Speaker 1>humble backbencher from South Australia.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right. It's interesting that he seems to object to

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<v Speaker 2>these kinds of descriptions far right and hard right, but

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know that there's any other way to describe

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<v Speaker 2>Alexandik because the positions he takes are on the hard

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<v Speaker 2>right of Australian politics. There's certainly not where most voters are,

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<v Speaker 2>and as we know from Susan Lee, the new leader

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<v Speaker 2>of the Federal Liberal Party, that's what she sees as

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<v Speaker 2>being her mission is to meet voters where they are.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think she's going to have a huge fight

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<v Speaker 2>on her hands in trying to take alex on and

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<v Speaker 2>undermine the influence that he has on the Parliamentary Liberal

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<v Speaker 2>Party and ultimately on voters out there in the electric.

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<v Speaker 1>After the break. Alexanderik wants the party to focus on abortions,

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<v Speaker 1>gender dysphoria and killing net zero. Jason Less drilled down

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<v Speaker 1>on Alexander's ideology a little bit more. Can you give

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<v Speaker 1>me a rundown of his politics and the direction he

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<v Speaker 1>wants to take the Liberal Party in.

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<v Speaker 2>I think the one issue that in capsule let this

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<v Speaker 2>question best is net zero. This is Australia's commitment for

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<v Speaker 2>net zero greenhouse emissions by twenty fifty. And Alexandik sees

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<v Speaker 2>net zero as a lion in the sand.

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<v Speaker 3>Putting Australia first has got to mean dumping net zero,

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<v Speaker 3>and I hope we do come to that position, and

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<v Speaker 3>I hope we come to it quickly as a party.

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<v Speaker 2>He's not going to sit quietly on the sidelines and

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<v Speaker 2>allow the Liberal Party to recommit itself to net zero.

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<v Speaker 2>And earlier this month, at a State Council meeting of

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<v Speaker 2>the South Australian Liberal Party, a meeting that was dominated

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<v Speaker 2>by Conservatives who are aligned with Alexandik, the South Australian

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<v Speaker 2>Liberal Party formally voted to reject net zero.

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<v Speaker 5>Alex you were the driving force behind the South Australian

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<v Speaker 5>Liberal Party's recent decision to abandon net zero by twenty fifty,

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<v Speaker 5>and he called the federal Libs also walk away from

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<v Speaker 5>net zero, but just hours later, the South Australian Liberal

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<v Speaker 5>leader poured cold water on the move, telling reporters that

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<v Speaker 5>none of these policy discussions bind any of the parliamentary

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<v Speaker 5>wings of the party. Tell my audience what's going on.

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<v Speaker 5>Are the South Australian Libs walking away from net zero

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<v Speaker 5>or are you sort of still half pregnant?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, look, Rita, what we're talking about.

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<v Speaker 2>Actually the result of that is that you've got the

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<v Speaker 2>party now trying to australe three contradictory positions. Susan Lee's

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<v Speaker 2>federal wing has net zero under review, You've got the

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<v Speaker 2>South Australian parliamentary Liberals who support net zero, but you've

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<v Speaker 2>now got the state division that formerly opposes net zero.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think this is an outcome that's not just confusing,

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<v Speaker 2>it's incendiary. And you've now got senior Liberals in South

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<v Speaker 2>Australia fearing when they have to fight the next state

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<v Speaker 2>election in South Australia next March, that they might go

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<v Speaker 2>even lower than the thirteen seats they have in the

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<v Speaker 2>Legislative Assembly, that they might even go backwards.

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<v Speaker 3>Here in South Australia, we have been restocking the shelves

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<v Speaker 3>at membership level with people that share our values, true Liberals.

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<v Speaker 3>They have been pre selecting people who have been making

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<v Speaker 3>their way to Parliament to the extent that they can.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, obviously you've been speaking to Monaris within the party.

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<v Speaker 1>What have they been telling you about him and their

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<v Speaker 1>concerns about Antick?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, one Liberal I spoke to described him as a

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<v Speaker 2>very dangerous man. This person added that Alexandik would make

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<v Speaker 2>a fascinating case study in psychological analysis, because they don't

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<v Speaker 2>think the average Liberal has any idea what Alexandik's endgame is.

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<v Speaker 2>Is he trying to destroy the party and rebuild it

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<v Speaker 2>in the image of the Republican Party.

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<v Speaker 1>In the US.

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<v Speaker 2>Does he actually want to be Australia's Donald Trump? This

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<v Speaker 2>person doesn't actually know the answer to that question, but

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<v Speaker 2>thinks it's very strange. Nonetheless, another liberal spoke to described

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<v Speaker 2>alexanderk as the most cold hearted, vindictive person they had

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<v Speaker 2>ever encountered in politics. Another person I spoke to said

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<v Speaker 2>to me that you turn up to a Liberal Party

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<v Speaker 2>meeting in South Australia these days and you get yelled

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<v Speaker 2>at about late term abortions or gender dysphoria or puberty

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<v Speaker 2>blockers or things that normal Liberals are not really interested in.

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<v Speaker 2>They find that the party they love is now more

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<v Speaker 2>interested in hysterically pursuing these ideological crusades, things they don't

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<v Speaker 2>want to have anything to do with, and that mainstream

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<v Speaker 2>voters want nothing to do with. And these members are

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<v Speaker 2>leaving the party because they will not be dictated to

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<v Speaker 2>by Alexandik and his supporters, who this person added are

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<v Speaker 2>probably more suited to Pauline Hanson's One Nation.

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<v Speaker 1>So do you think that Senator Antik and the playbook

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<v Speaker 1>that he is using, one that is largely adopted from

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<v Speaker 1>Trumpian politics, is ultimately harm the Liberal Party?

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<v Speaker 2>I do think so, Daniel, because you know, as Susan

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<v Speaker 2>Lee said, I think in her first press conference as leader,

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<v Speaker 2>the Liberal Party has to meet voters where they are,

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<v Speaker 2>and voters are not where Alexandik is. So if he

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<v Speaker 2>can continue to influence the debate in the way that

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<v Speaker 2>he's trying to, pulling the party further to the right,

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<v Speaker 2>then I don't think the Liberal Party has any hope

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<v Speaker 2>of winning back government. They've got to move back towards

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<v Speaker 2>the center. They've got to get back to those issues

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<v Speaker 2>that are its traditional strengths, particularly on the economy, that

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<v Speaker 2>the Liberal Party has always stood for. But they have

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<v Speaker 2>to start talking about those issues in a serious way,

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<v Speaker 2>not become obsessed by these cultural war issues.

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<v Speaker 1>So he has a degree of power within the party,

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<v Speaker 1>and he seems to be held bent on not taking

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<v Speaker 1>any sort of advice out of the lessons of the

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<v Speaker 1>last election in terms of meeting closer to the center.

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<v Speaker 1>Despite that, do you think he has a chance of

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<v Speaker 1>succeeding with some of his ideological crusades.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, he's not on his own when it comes.

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<v Speaker 1>To net zero.

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<v Speaker 2>We saw in a Four Corners episode straight after the

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<v Speaker 2>federal election, that disastrous May three election for the Liberal Party.

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<v Speaker 2>We saw Andrew Hasty, perhaps a future leader of the

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<v Speaker 2>Liberal Party, say that he was wanting to get out

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<v Speaker 2>of the net zero straight jacket.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think that policy should be reviewed? Your commitment

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<v Speaker 1>to net zero by twenty fifty.

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<v Speaker 6>The question of net zero again, that's a straight jacket

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<v Speaker 6>that I'm already getting out of. The real question is

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<v Speaker 6>should astray in families and businesses be paying more for

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<v Speaker 6>the electricity.

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<v Speaker 2>Which surprised me coming from such a clearly intelligent, sensible

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<v Speaker 2>person as Andrew Hasty. For him to say that was

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<v Speaker 2>a signal. I think that there are large sections of

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<v Speaker 2>the parliamentary and Liberal Party that are unhappy with net

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<v Speaker 2>zero as a policy position. So I think there's quite

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<v Speaker 2>a bit of debate left in this fight. But I

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<v Speaker 2>also think it's a pointless battle because the Liberal Party

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<v Speaker 2>cannot afford to give up net zero and hope to

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<v Speaker 2>be a party of the center, because most voters do

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<v Speaker 2>accept that climate change is real, they do accept that

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<v Speaker 2>the Australian government has to do something about it, and

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<v Speaker 2>that we've got to move towards net zero greenhouse gas emissions.

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<v Speaker 1>Jason, it's been a pleasure talking with you and a

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<v Speaker 1>pleasure working with you.

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<v Speaker 2>Daniel, an absolute pleasure talking with you, and I hope

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<v Speaker 2>we continue to talk into the future.

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<v Speaker 1>Also in the news, the United States has bombed three

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<v Speaker 1>nuclear sites in Iran. US President Donald Trump confirmed the

0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:59.520
<v Speaker 1>attacks via truth Social calling them quote very successful. Trump

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<v Speaker 1>said all American warplanes were now outside Iranian airspace. The

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<v Speaker 1>bombings come after a week of uncertainty about whether the

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<v Speaker 1>United States would directly intervene in the escalating conflict between

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<v Speaker 1>Israel and Iran, and Green's leader Larissa Waters says Australia

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<v Speaker 1>cannot allow itself to be dragged into another war in

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<v Speaker 1>the Middle East. Calling America's strikes on Iran a blatant

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<v Speaker 1>breach of international law, Senator Waters said the Australian government

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<v Speaker 1>should take the opportunity to withdraw from the Orchest Agreement

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<v Speaker 1>and condemn America's actions. I'm Daniel James. This has been

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<v Speaker 1>seven am. Thanks for listening.