Speaker 1: From Schwartz Media. I'm Daniel James. This is seven am.
Speaker 1: Alexander doesn't want to lead the Liberal Party. He wants
Speaker 1: to reshape it, and he's already making headway. Senator Andy
Speaker 1: calls himself an irrelevant backbencher, but he's installed allies, toppled moderates,
Speaker 1: and pushed the party's politics to the edge. His playbook
Speaker 1: mirrors Donald Trump's dominate the narrative, fight the culture wars,
Speaker 1: and never aim for the center. Now he's turning disruption
Speaker 1: into power, and moderates feared the party is becoming unelectable. Today,
Speaker 1: senior reporter for the Saturday Paper, Jason kotsukis on the
Speaker 1: rise of Alexanderik and the fight for the soul of
Speaker 1: the Liberal Party. It's Monday, June twenty three. Jason. A
Speaker 1: single photo of Liberal backbencher alex Antik posing with Donald
Speaker 1: Trump really set things off last week. Tell me about
Speaker 1: that post.
Speaker 2: So, Daniel. As we all know, Anthony Albanezi has been
Speaker 2: trying to get a meeting with the US President Donald Trump.
Speaker 2: He thought he had one at the G seven summit
Speaker 2: in Canada until Donald Trump suddenly changed the script and
Speaker 2: said he was going back to Washington early, effectively standing
Speaker 2: the Prime Minister up. Alexantik, the Senator from South Australia,
Speaker 2: the Liberal powerbroker in that state. He was quick to
Speaker 2: post this picture that he had of himself standing next
Speaker 2: to Donald Trump with a caption bad luck at Elbow MP.
Speaker 2: He doesn't meet with everyone. This is really very much
Speaker 2: his style. Alexandik is of course number one on the
Speaker 2: Liberal Senate ticket in South Australia. He comes from the
Speaker 2: hard right of the Liberal Party and he's been able
Speaker 2: to effectively take control of the Liberal Party machinery in
Speaker 2: South Australia and he is the most powerful politician in
Speaker 2: the Liberal Party in South Australia. He's someone that does
Speaker 2: instill a bit of fear in that moderate wing of
Speaker 2: the Liberal Party.
Speaker 1: So is that why the photo itself stirred such a
Speaker 1: big reaction within the party.
Speaker 2: I think Donald Trump did so much damage to the
Speaker 2: Liberal brand during the election campaign that we've all just
Speaker 2: been through that to see a Liberal come out and
Speaker 2: lean into that in such a public way did cause
Speaker 2: quite a bit of groaning inside the parliamentary Liberal Party
Speaker 2: because I guess what most people are thinking is, how
Speaker 2: are we ever going to get back into government. If
Speaker 2: we have people like Alex Antik posting photos of themselves
Speaker 2: with Donald Trump and really trying to emulate Donald Trump
Speaker 2: in the way they do politics here.
Speaker 3: The welcome in the country is nothing more than something
Speaker 3: wealthy city people love to do to make themselves feel good.
Speaker 3: What does it say about our society when we commemorate
Speaker 3: Anzac Day for a single day, yet we get a
Speaker 3: whole month of pride? Now what is point? Young men
Speaker 3: are entitled to feel let down by the manner in
Speaker 3: which they're treated in modern Australia, let down by the
Speaker 3: housing market, let down by the job market, and let
Speaker 3: down by a society that continues to call them toxic.
Speaker 1: So he is just a backbench So how much power
Speaker 1: does he actually hold within the broader party.
Speaker 2: Well within the broader party, many of his colleagues would
Speaker 2: argue not much. And while he may not be on
Speaker 2: the front bench, he does have regular guest appearances on
Speaker 2: on Sky News.
Speaker 4: Alex, you've heard what I have to say, tell me
Speaker 4: what you think about the loss and our viewers outside
Speaker 4: his viewers will not forgive me if I do not
Speaker 4: say you should be the next leader of the Liberal Party.
Speaker 1: So there I've said it.
Speaker 2: So you often see him on Peter Kredlin's program, or
Speaker 2: Rowan Dean's program, or Rita Panahi's program.
Speaker 3: The tragedy of this is that people never really I
Speaker 3: don't think, saw the very kind, very quick witted and
Speaker 3: mischievously humored Peter Dutton out of all of this. I
Speaker 3: wish that there had been more of that, this push
Speaker 3: on the doge, but also out of countries like Argentina
Speaker 3: that we're doing this two years ago under Havier Malay
Speaker 3: are now showing that there's an appetite for lean, mean government,
Speaker 3: so they shouldn't be And I.
Speaker 2: Think he does have through that quite a bit of
Speaker 2: influence on the parliamentary Liberal Party, and if he wants
Speaker 2: to kick up a big stink on an issue, he's
Speaker 2: probably going to be able to bring a group of
Speaker 2: people with him. Alexanderik rose to kind of national consciousness
Speaker 2: in March last year when he succeeded in demoting the
Speaker 2: liberals number one Senate ticket holder Anne Rustin. And Rustin
Speaker 2: is a nationally recognized figure. She's a former cabinet minister
Speaker 2: in the Morrison government and she's also a prominent moderate
Speaker 2: in the Liberal Party. And I think that really upset
Speaker 2: a lot of liberals because there wasn't really any point
Speaker 2: to it. It was just a way to demonstrate his
Speaker 2: power to flex his muscles. And ultimately that means he's
Speaker 2: a problem that the liberal leadership will have to deal.
Speaker 1: With for this story, Jason, did you reach out to
Speaker 1: Senator Antique for comment?
Speaker 2: I did email him. I actually emailed his media advisor,
Speaker 2: whose name I was told was Matthew. They wouldn't give
Speaker 2: me his family name. They gave me an email address,
Speaker 2: and it was Alexandik that replied to that email, and
Speaker 2: he was quite irreverent. Was probably the tone that characterized
Speaker 2: Alexandtik's reply to me, He said, Dear Jason, happy to
Speaker 2: go with the following In inverted commas, he said, I
Speaker 2: am always amused by approaches from journalists looking to write
Speaker 2: a profile piece. But I can see why your outlet
Speaker 2: is so interested in writing about me. So, you know,
Speaker 2: a heavy tone of sarcasm there, and he goes on
Speaker 2: one wonders how you will take my advocacy for small government,
Speaker 2: individual rights, and family values. Surely you wouldn't just roll
Speaker 2: out many of the commonly used phrases as adopted by
Speaker 2: the left wing media such as far right or hard right,
Speaker 2: and then he finishes off with a brush off but
Speaker 2: also a bit of a wink here. If you can
Speaker 2: forward me a link, I will read it when I
Speaker 2: find a moment.
Speaker 1: So he was just trying to betray himself as a
Speaker 1: humble backbencher from South Australia.
Speaker 2: That's right. It's interesting that he seems to object to
Speaker 2: these kinds of descriptions far right and hard right, but
Speaker 2: I don't know that there's any other way to describe
Speaker 2: Alexandik because the positions he takes are on the hard
Speaker 2: right of Australian politics. There's certainly not where most voters are,
Speaker 2: and as we know from Susan Lee, the new leader
Speaker 2: of the Federal Liberal Party, that's what she sees as
Speaker 2: being her mission is to meet voters where they are.
Speaker 2: And I think she's going to have a huge fight
Speaker 2: on her hands in trying to take alex on and
Speaker 2: undermine the influence that he has on the Parliamentary Liberal
Speaker 2: Party and ultimately on voters out there in the electric.
Speaker 1: After the break. Alexanderik wants the party to focus on abortions,
Speaker 1: gender dysphoria and killing net zero. Jason Less drilled down
Speaker 1: on Alexander's ideology a little bit more. Can you give
Speaker 1: me a rundown of his politics and the direction he
Speaker 1: wants to take the Liberal Party in.
Speaker 2: I think the one issue that in capsule let this
Speaker 2: question best is net zero. This is Australia's commitment for
Speaker 2: net zero greenhouse emissions by twenty fifty. And Alexandik sees
Speaker 2: net zero as a lion in the sand.
Speaker 3: Putting Australia first has got to mean dumping net zero,
Speaker 3: and I hope we do come to that position, and
Speaker 3: I hope we come to it quickly as a party.
Speaker 2: He's not going to sit quietly on the sidelines and
Speaker 2: allow the Liberal Party to recommit itself to net zero.
Speaker 2: And earlier this month, at a State Council meeting of
Speaker 2: the South Australian Liberal Party, a meeting that was dominated
Speaker 2: by Conservatives who are aligned with Alexandik, the South Australian
Speaker 2: Liberal Party formally voted to reject net zero.
Speaker 5: Alex you were the driving force behind the South Australian
Speaker 5: Liberal Party's recent decision to abandon net zero by twenty fifty,
Speaker 5: and he called the federal Libs also walk away from
Speaker 5: net zero, but just hours later, the South Australian Liberal
Speaker 5: leader poured cold water on the move, telling reporters that
Speaker 5: none of these policy discussions bind any of the parliamentary
Speaker 5: wings of the party. Tell my audience what's going on.
Speaker 5: Are the South Australian Libs walking away from net zero
Speaker 5: or are you sort of still half pregnant?
Speaker 3: Well, look, Rita, what we're talking about.
Speaker 2: Actually the result of that is that you've got the
Speaker 2: party now trying to australe three contradictory positions. Susan Lee's
Speaker 2: federal wing has net zero under review, You've got the
Speaker 2: South Australian parliamentary Liberals who support net zero, but you've
Speaker 2: now got the state division that formerly opposes net zero.
Speaker 2: And I think this is an outcome that's not just confusing,
Speaker 2: it's incendiary. And you've now got senior Liberals in South
Speaker 2: Australia fearing when they have to fight the next state
Speaker 2: election in South Australia next March, that they might go
Speaker 2: even lower than the thirteen seats they have in the
Speaker 2: Legislative Assembly, that they might even go backwards.
Speaker 3: Here in South Australia, we have been restocking the shelves
Speaker 3: at membership level with people that share our values, true Liberals.
Speaker 3: They have been pre selecting people who have been making
Speaker 3: their way to Parliament to the extent that they can.
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously you've been speaking to Monaris within the party.
Speaker 1: What have they been telling you about him and their
Speaker 1: concerns about Antick?
Speaker 2: Well, one Liberal I spoke to described him as a
Speaker 2: very dangerous man. This person added that Alexandik would make
Speaker 2: a fascinating case study in psychological analysis, because they don't
Speaker 2: think the average Liberal has any idea what Alexandik's endgame is.
Speaker 2: Is he trying to destroy the party and rebuild it
Speaker 2: in the image of the Republican Party.
Speaker 1: In the US.
Speaker 2: Does he actually want to be Australia's Donald Trump? This
Speaker 2: person doesn't actually know the answer to that question, but
Speaker 2: thinks it's very strange. Nonetheless, another liberal spoke to described
Speaker 2: alexanderk as the most cold hearted, vindictive person they had
Speaker 2: ever encountered in politics. Another person I spoke to said
Speaker 2: to me that you turn up to a Liberal Party
Speaker 2: meeting in South Australia these days and you get yelled
Speaker 2: at about late term abortions or gender dysphoria or puberty
Speaker 2: blockers or things that normal Liberals are not really interested in.
Speaker 2: They find that the party they love is now more
Speaker 2: interested in hysterically pursuing these ideological crusades, things they don't
Speaker 2: want to have anything to do with, and that mainstream
Speaker 2: voters want nothing to do with. And these members are
Speaker 2: leaving the party because they will not be dictated to
Speaker 2: by Alexandik and his supporters, who this person added are
Speaker 2: probably more suited to Pauline Hanson's One Nation.
Speaker 1: So do you think that Senator Antik and the playbook
Speaker 1: that he is using, one that is largely adopted from
Speaker 1: Trumpian politics, is ultimately harm the Liberal Party?
Speaker 2: I do think so, Daniel, because you know, as Susan
Speaker 2: Lee said, I think in her first press conference as leader,
Speaker 2: the Liberal Party has to meet voters where they are,
Speaker 2: and voters are not where Alexandik is. So if he
Speaker 2: can continue to influence the debate in the way that
Speaker 2: he's trying to, pulling the party further to the right,
Speaker 2: then I don't think the Liberal Party has any hope
Speaker 2: of winning back government. They've got to move back towards
Speaker 2: the center. They've got to get back to those issues
Speaker 2: that are its traditional strengths, particularly on the economy, that
Speaker 2: the Liberal Party has always stood for. But they have
Speaker 2: to start talking about those issues in a serious way,
Speaker 2: not become obsessed by these cultural war issues.
Speaker 1: So he has a degree of power within the party,
Speaker 1: and he seems to be held bent on not taking
Speaker 1: any sort of advice out of the lessons of the
Speaker 1: last election in terms of meeting closer to the center.
Speaker 1: Despite that, do you think he has a chance of
Speaker 1: succeeding with some of his ideological crusades.
Speaker 2: Well, he's not on his own when it comes.
Speaker 1: To net zero.
Speaker 2: We saw in a Four Corners episode straight after the
Speaker 2: federal election, that disastrous May three election for the Liberal Party.
Speaker 2: We saw Andrew Hasty, perhaps a future leader of the
Speaker 2: Liberal Party, say that he was wanting to get out
Speaker 2: of the net zero straight jacket.
Speaker 1: Do you think that policy should be reviewed? Your commitment
Speaker 1: to net zero by twenty fifty.
Speaker 6: The question of net zero again, that's a straight jacket
Speaker 6: that I'm already getting out of. The real question is
Speaker 6: should astray in families and businesses be paying more for
Speaker 6: the electricity.
Speaker 2: Which surprised me coming from such a clearly intelligent, sensible
Speaker 2: person as Andrew Hasty. For him to say that was
Speaker 2: a signal. I think that there are large sections of
Speaker 2: the parliamentary and Liberal Party that are unhappy with net
Speaker 2: zero as a policy position. So I think there's quite
Speaker 2: a bit of debate left in this fight. But I
Speaker 2: also think it's a pointless battle because the Liberal Party
Speaker 2: cannot afford to give up net zero and hope to
Speaker 2: be a party of the center, because most voters do
Speaker 2: accept that climate change is real, they do accept that
Speaker 2: the Australian government has to do something about it, and
Speaker 2: that we've got to move towards net zero greenhouse gas emissions.
Speaker 1: Jason, it's been a pleasure talking with you and a
Speaker 1: pleasure working with you.
Speaker 2: Daniel, an absolute pleasure talking with you, and I hope
Speaker 2: we continue to talk into the future.
Speaker 1: Also in the news, the United States has bombed three
Speaker 1: nuclear sites in Iran. US President Donald Trump confirmed the
Speaker 1: attacks via truth Social calling them quote very successful. Trump
Speaker 1: said all American warplanes were now outside Iranian airspace. The
Speaker 1: bombings come after a week of uncertainty about whether the
Speaker 1: United States would directly intervene in the escalating conflict between
Speaker 1: Israel and Iran, and Green's leader Larissa Waters says Australia
Speaker 1: cannot allow itself to be dragged into another war in
Speaker 1: the Middle East. Calling America's strikes on Iran a blatant
Speaker 1: breach of international law, Senator Waters said the Australian government
Speaker 1: should take the opportunity to withdraw from the Orchest Agreement
Speaker 1: and condemn America's actions. I'm Daniel James. This has been
Speaker 1: seven am. Thanks for listening.