1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,080 Speaker 1: Well, let's look at dog attacks in general. We can't 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 1: say much about what happened yesterday at Pennington. We don't 3 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:08,719 Speaker 1: really know the full circumstances, no idea if the owner 4 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: was around or not, or if the dog was just wondering. 5 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: But I thought it would be a great idea talking 6 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: with Tammy this morning and she came up with why 7 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: don't we have a look at the general idea of 8 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:23,240 Speaker 1: what makes dogs attack people and in this case a child. 9 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: Daniel Tropiano K nine relationship coach and Daniel. You you 10 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: obviously train dogs, if you work with them, you understand 11 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: them very well. What would good morning? What would make 12 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 1: a dog attack a child? 13 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 2: Well, again, this is something that is very situational, so 14 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 2: it's not something that can just be generalized. But instead 15 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 2: of looking at why the dog attacks a child, we 16 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 2: need to look at why the dog would attack anything 17 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 2: or feel the reason to have to attack anything. And 18 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 2: that would usually come because the dog doesn't know how 19 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 2: to deal with pressure put on it from the world, 20 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 2: whether that's a child that's standing over it or to 21 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 2: give it a cuddle. Maybe it's another dog that comes 22 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 2: to stand over it. It could be a bird. If 23 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 2: the dog doesn't know how to deal with those triggers 24 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 2: in the world, and they feel that there's too much pressure. 25 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 2: Sometimes it's an automated response to put that bite out 26 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 2: to create some space. There are some dogs that also 27 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 2: feel the need that they like to chase things, and 28 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 2: chasing things can lead to biting things. There are dogs 29 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 2: out there that don't know how to control themselves and 30 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 2: they get too a row. So it could be a 31 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 2: little poodle mix that's so excited around children it can't 32 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,279 Speaker 2: control itself, and that can also lead to a bite. 33 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 2: But at the basis of all of this is that 34 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 2: the dogs that we are training or not training, i 35 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:40,839 Speaker 2: should say, and living with these days are weaker dogs 36 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 2: than we've ever had in our lives, no difference to 37 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 2: what's happening with our children at schools these days. We're 38 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 2: not allowed to teach the dogs how to deal with 39 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 2: pressure anymore. That's seen as a negative, and it makes 40 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 2: weaker dogs, and that's more likely to lead for a bite. 41 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: What do you mean we're not allowed to What were 42 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: we training them to do that we're not allowed to 43 00:01:57,640 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: train them to do now. 44 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 2: Well, a big ideological swing in the political realm at 45 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 2: the moment where you know, positive reinforcement only training is 46 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 2: the big push, or what they class is force free training, 47 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:16,959 Speaker 2: and force free training means that you're not allowed to 48 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 2: put any pressure on a dog. Now, let's say, for example, 49 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 2: I have a dog in my facility here. The very 50 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 2: first thing that we teach our dogs to do, or 51 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 2: our students dogs to do, is to put their feet 52 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 2: on a pedestal, two feet on a pedestal, and we 53 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 2: start holding their head and their body in different places, 54 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 2: and we teach them how to deal with that pressure 55 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 2: and we pair it to very good positive association. Now, 56 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 2: in the true sense of the word of force free training, 57 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 2: that would be banned. We're not allowed to do that 58 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 2: anymore because we are applying a force to the animal. 59 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 2: And that's where we're going to have a big issue. 60 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 2: And that's where we do have big issues with most 61 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 2: of the training and what's happening in the new regulations 62 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 2: that are coming out at the moment with the Dog 63 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 2: and Cat Management Board is just a bit a bit unclear, 64 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:04,799 Speaker 2: and it's not going to get us anywhere. Okay, most 65 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,799 Speaker 2: sad that this happened yesterday, but it's not surprising at all. 66 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: Most people probably wouldn't if they get a puppy or whatever, 67 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:15,079 Speaker 1: they train a dog, you know, do your business outside 68 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: or whatever the case, all that training, sit everything else. 69 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 1: Most people would would they do that to a dog 70 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:23,679 Speaker 1: in training a dog at home? Like put it up on. 71 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:28,839 Speaker 1: I mean you might as a professional dog trainer. Would 72 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: people at home put a dog through doing that? 73 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 2: Well, this is where there needs to be a push 74 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 2: from those who are creating the regulations in our state 75 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 2: to further promote proper education around dog ownership. We in 76 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 2: the industry are pushing to work with the Dog and 77 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 2: Cat Management Board and the Office of the Deputy Premier 78 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 2: so that we can actually get some real life results 79 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 2: and real life regulations put in because we need better 80 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 2: education on the front end of dog ownership rather than 81 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 2: waiting for a child to get bit in the face. 82 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 2: It's the only time the media wants to talk, unfortunately, 83 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 2: But you know, we need to be doing this so 84 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 2: that the children are not getting bidden in the face. 85 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 2: And where does that come. Tougher regulations on dog ownership 86 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 2: in general, not just tougher punishments for children getting bidden 87 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 2: in the faith, it's too late when the kids bidden 88 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 2: in the face. 89 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, certainly, certainly is all right in this Well, I 90 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 1: don't want to talk specifically, but where where incidents like 91 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: this have occurred. What should be the next step? 92 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:31,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we have to see what is going to 93 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 2: be done. I mean, it's got some media attention. So 94 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 2: the the Dog and Cat Management Board, through the local 95 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 2: councils and their regulations should be enforced. And no doubt 96 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 2: this person will end up with a dangerous dog order. 97 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 2: But you know this is now, this dog has a 98 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:50,919 Speaker 2: if it gets a dangerous dog order on it, it 99 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,599 Speaker 2: now can only go to certain trainers in the industry 100 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 2: that follow the force free slash positive only training method, 101 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,159 Speaker 2: which is not going to do anything to help build 102 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 2: the dog's confidence in this area because if you can't 103 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 2: help the dog understand pressure of the world, then it's 104 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 2: not going to help the dog grow in that area. 105 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,479 Speaker 2: So the system itself fails. And the problem is is 106 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 2: that in the regulations of the Dog and Cat Management Board, 107 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 2: if your dog was to get a dangerous dog order, 108 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 2: you are only allowed to see four three slash positive 109 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:27,719 Speaker 2: only trainers to try and get that order removed. However, 110 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 2: we see an organization here that talks one way but 111 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 2: walks a different way, because they stand behind this style 112 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 2: of training for the changing of behavioral habits in a subject. 113 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 2: Yet they've just handed down twenty four pages of punishment 114 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 2: to control our behavior around owning dogs. So it doesn't 115 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,359 Speaker 2: make sense. We need to understand that there is a 116 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 2: balanced approach to training these animals. We have to have 117 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 2: a stronger process on the front end of dog ownership 118 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 2: to really push that education is needed. I can tell 119 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 2: you that ninety eight percent of the dog out there 120 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 2: do not get anywhere near what they need to do 121 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 2: to be able to be productive members of society. It's 122 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:09,160 Speaker 2: a real it's a real worry at the moment. The 123 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 2: professionals in the industry the things that they see in 124 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 2: face every day, and there's just really a disconnect between 125 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 2: the people that are creating regulations and those that are 126 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 2: boots on the ground in the industry. Unfortunately. 127 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: Well, I think that ninety eight percent you mentioned goes 128 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 1: back to the point that you know, you might put 129 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: the dog through essentially a stress test if you like, 130 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 1: I don't know that people at home bringing up a 131 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: puppy would necessarily do all that they give it the basics, Yeah. 132 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, the basics. That's just tricks. 133 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: Right. 134 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 2: So if we're doing a sit for the treat and 135 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 2: all that, that's tricks. What that doesn't also do is 136 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:45,839 Speaker 2: it doesn't teach the dogs proper behavior. 137 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:46,280 Speaker 1: Right. 138 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 2: What we do with our training here is we teach 139 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 2: the dogs how to be a being, and we grow 140 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 2: that being, and we teach them how to make good choices, 141 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 2: and we teach them how to problem solved so that 142 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 2: when they do deal with stresses of the world, they 143 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 2: know how to get through that stress because they know 144 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 2: that as a dog, when there's some sort of problem 145 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 2: I need to solve, I have confidence in myself to 146 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 2: find the correct solution to find my success. And that 147 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 2: does a very strong confidence dog that knows how to 148 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 2: be in the world because they know how to make 149 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 2: the right choices. They don't know how to just sit 150 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 2: for that treat. If that makes sense right, It creates 151 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 2: a well rounded being. And this is again why we 152 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 2: need to we need to come together as regulators and 153 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 2: professionals in the industry and sit down and really start 154 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 2: talking about how we can make an impact because some 155 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 2: of the intentions of late, they're not doing anything and 156 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 2: making tough of penalties. Let's say someone now needs to 157 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 2: get fined fifty thousand dollars for a dog attack. If 158 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 2: they haven't got fifty thousand dollars, what does that do? 159 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 2: Nothing right, The dog gets put down, the persons still 160 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 2: being attacked, and nothing changes. So it really needs to 161 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 2: be more of a proactive approach in my opinion. 162 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: Daniel, thank you for your time, no problem, Thanks Matting, 163 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 1: have a great one you two, Daniel Tropiano K nine 164 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: relationship code