1 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:08,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Fear and Greed business Interview. I'm Suan Alma. 2 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: Something a bit different for your Friday. When we have 3 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: questions about brands, image advertising, we go to Ben Willie, 4 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: the general manager and Media director of Spinach Advertising Agency, 5 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 1: and today two very different topics to talk to Ben about, 6 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: first Matilda's Captain Sam Kerr's legal battles in the UK 7 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: and what it means for her image and the brands 8 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: she works with. And then to one of the biggest 9 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: spectacles on Earth, Sunday super Bowl in the US. That's 10 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: Monday morning, Australian time, and the company's paying millions of 11 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: dollars to advertise during the event. Ben Willy, welcome back 12 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: to Fear and Greed today. 13 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 2: Sean great to be here. 14 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: Starting with Sam Kerr, the Matilda's Captain Chelsea Striker superstar. 15 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: She appeared in the UK court this week on a 16 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 1: charge of racially aggravated harassment against a police officer. Without 17 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 1: going into the rights and wrongs of the case, the 18 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: court can decide that just how damaging are the allegations 19 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: to someone like Sam Kerr, who is one of Australia's 20 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: highest profile sports people, of. 21 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 2: Very damaging and I'm with you. We'll let the court 22 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 2: decide who's right and who's wrong in this situation. But 23 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 2: her very sizeable wallet is undoubtedly going to take a 24 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 2: dent as a result of this, because advertisers and brands 25 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 2: want all the good things about sports people and they 26 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 2: don't want any of the bad things. But advertisers and 27 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 2: brands have learnt their lesson in this space before, and 28 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 2: there will undoubtedly be clauses in her contract that say, 29 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 2: if certain things happen, they have the right to break 30 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 2: that contract, they have the right to pay her less. 31 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 2: There will be all sorts of complications in those clauses. 32 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 2: Now I'm not familiar with the detail of any of them, 33 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 2: but I mean, if you've got a one million dollar 34 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 2: a year endorsement deal with Nike MasterCard reported at six 35 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 2: hundred grand a season, we're talking lots of money, and 36 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 2: we're looking some very nervous people in boardrooms at the moment, 37 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 2: hoping desperately that she comes out on top. 38 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 1: Has that changed it? I mean, Nike famously stood by 39 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:12,920 Speaker 1: Lance Armstrong for years and years, and even when it 40 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: came out and realized that he had been taking performance 41 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:19,359 Speaker 1: enhancing drugs, they stuck with him. Eventually they dropped him. 42 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: Is the world a different place now when we expect 43 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 1: our sports stars to be so clean and a bit 44 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: unfair because social media means none of us are clean anymore. 45 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: Pretty hard in some ways for those sports stars to 46 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: actually live up to that. 47 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 2: Oh, very very difficult. But I mean, if you're going 48 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 2: to take millions of dollars from brands to present yourself 49 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 2: as the captain of a very very successful soccer team, 50 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 2: you've got to take the good with the bad, and 51 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 2: that comes with an expectation of behavior. So, you know, 52 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 2: the good news for her is is that sports fans 53 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 2: and people are very forgiving once you start scoring goals again. Now, 54 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 2: unfortunately for Sam, Kerr had an ACL injury. She's been 55 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 2: out for quite a while, which is probably added to 56 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 2: her frustration. So it won't be as easy for her 57 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 2: to just jump back on the playing field, kick a 58 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:13,399 Speaker 2: few goals and all will be forgotten and we'll all 59 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 2: be jumping around hugging each other in the living room 60 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 2: talking about what a fantastic sports person she is. 61 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 1: So let's say Sam kurdoes get back to football soon enough, 62 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 1: and she does start doing those sorts of things and 63 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: master Card. You mentioned Nike, I think EO Sports is 64 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: another one. Are they likely to hang around or does 65 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: she basically don't have to find a bunch of new sponsors. 66 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 2: No, I think they'll definitely hang around, and they'll certainly 67 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 2: won't drop her like a hot potato if things go well, 68 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 2: but they will also they'll be weighing up their options 69 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 2: based on that. And look, brands are very sophisticated these days. 70 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 2: They do a lot of research on themselves, They do 71 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 2: a lot of research on the people they sponsor, so 72 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 2: they'll have a pretty quick quick read on how Joe 73 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 2: public feels about her, how their customers feel about Sam. 74 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 2: And it may be even if a judgment goes against her, 75 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 2: there will be a lot of the community that says, 76 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 2: you know what, Like you said earlier, I'm not perfect. 77 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 2: This is potentially a bit of a storm in a teacup. 78 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 2: Let's get back to playing football. And I don't really 79 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 2: worry so much, but there are some examples closer to 80 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 2: home where things haven't gone so swimmingly. And I think 81 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:30,039 Speaker 2: recently a beer brand you know, got in a lot 82 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 2: of trouble with their drinkers in Australia sponsoring outdoors for 83 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 2: a cause. And so the real key part about this 84 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 2: is brands need to know their audiences intimately, and they 85 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 2: need to know how they feel about situations intimately. 86 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 1: Stay with me, Ben, and we'll be back in a minute 87 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: to talk all things super Bowl. I'm speaking to Ben 88 00:04:56,480 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: Willie from Spinach Advertising. Super Bowl Monday morning, Aussie time. 89 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 1: For many of people like you, I'm sure one of 90 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: the highlights of the year in terms of advertising. What's 91 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: the what's the deal this year? How much is it costing? 92 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 2: Why do you expect, well's only going to be lazy 93 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 2: seven to eight million dollars for oh thirty second ad? 94 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: You know what reality is. 95 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 2: TV deals are a bit more complicated than that, and 96 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:27,679 Speaker 2: you don't ever just buy one spot and then walk away, 97 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 2: so they'll be wrapped up in annual deals and a 98 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 2: whole load of other clauses. But you know, that's pretty 99 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 2: close to what people will pay. And isn't it great 100 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 2: that the ads are an event in their own right, 101 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 2: you know, totally changing the channel, genuine storytelling and advertising 102 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 2: in its absolute finess. I'm excited. 103 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, you get a set. I mean, these sorts of 104 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: ads on Super Bowl days, thematic like sometimes there seems 105 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:55,919 Speaker 1: to be sort of craze is going on. But the 106 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: other thing, often these superbads throw you things that you 107 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: haven't ever thought of before. For almost Look, it's. 108 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 2: A really good point and what we're seeing at the 109 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 2: moment is in tough economic times, a lot of brands 110 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 2: and advertisers are shouting about price. What we see in 111 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 2: the super Bowl adds is the complete reverse of that. 112 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 2: It's genuine storytelling and it's emotive hooks, whether that's humor 113 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:21,919 Speaker 2: or whatever it is to make you feel something about 114 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,839 Speaker 2: a brand. And the research on the Super Bowl is 115 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 2: conclusive and it's clear is that these super high engagement 116 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 2: events deliver really well for advertisers. And one of the 117 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 2: key components about delivering a brand campaign is consistency of message. 118 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 2: So if you're saying the same thing regularly over time, 119 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 2: that really makes your brand very very powerful. And if 120 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,280 Speaker 2: you think about some of the most strongest brands in Australia, 121 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 2: they've been consistent and perhaps happy little vegimites for you know, 122 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 2: almost one hundred years. So yes, themes and thematic advertising 123 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 2: does work very well. Let's not forget also short term 124 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 2: humor and some of the shock value of some of 125 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 2: these ads can really make a brand stand out and 126 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 2: make a brand in a category that's low interest really 127 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 2: stand out as well too. 128 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: So I mean, I think you said in that that 129 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: basically it's worth it for most brands that advertise on suit. 130 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 2: Bowl, oh without a doubt. I mean, there would be 131 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 2: some very sophisticated econometric models, similar to the kind of 132 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 2: models that financial analysts run, that give them an independent 133 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 2: return on investment for that one thirty second, and they'll 134 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 2: be able to isolate the value to whether that's in 135 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 2: some cases sales, website visitation, certainly, brand awareness, brand favorability 136 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 2: and all the kind of metrics that people like myself 137 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 2: love and most importantly, they will entertain the hell out 138 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 2: of the viewers. And you know, that's what we need 139 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 2: more of in Australia is brave companies who are prepared 140 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 2: to go out in a limb, invest a bit of 141 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 2: money and do something different other than just shout a 142 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 2: price at us. 143 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: Okay, so if we bring it home, I suppose the 144 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: AFL is the closest thing we have to it, but 145 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 1: the GP, the Aussie Open, the NRL. There are a 146 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 1: few things around which sort of you know, fit into 147 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: the same category. Why don't we have that history or 148 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: something of kind of the build up to great ads 149 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: in those programs. Let's take the AFL Grand Final or 150 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 1: the Aussie Open Final. Why don't we have that. 151 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 2: Look, it's a really really good question, and we should 152 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:37,319 Speaker 2: because you're talking about some of the most viewed events 153 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 2: in Australian television, certainly the AFL Grand Final, NRL State 154 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 2: of Origin. Of course, they're consistently really really top rating 155 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 2: programs and Channel Seven even have run promotions in previous 156 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 2: years giving away free airtime to advertisers who put ads 157 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 2: like this into the Grand Final. Obviously they didn't give 158 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 2: away free airtime in the Grand Final, but if you 159 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 2: made really emotive ads, they were prepared to support you. 160 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 2: And I think it really comes back to what I've 161 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 2: said before is we need more marketers to go out 162 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,559 Speaker 2: on a limb and do some pretty crazy work. And 163 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 2: what we have a problem with is is if you 164 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 2: please a whole bunch of people, you'll invariably upset some people. 165 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 2: And we have a bit of a problem in our 166 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 2: industry is that a lot of marketers are really afraid 167 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 2: to upset some people and really afraid to just go 168 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 2: out on a limb a little bit, because they'll be 169 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 2: attacked on social media. It doesn't matter. You could go 170 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 2: on social media tomorrow and say the sky's blue and 171 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,199 Speaker 2: a bunch of people will attack you. So I'd love 172 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:42,199 Speaker 2: to see more advertisers be more brave, and I'd love 173 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 2: to see them use more of those big, high profile 174 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 2: events to entertain us as viewers, because if we're providing 175 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 2: our attention to the ads, the least we can do 176 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 2: as advertisers is entertain you or do something a bit different. 177 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: Why is the advertising industry so conservative at the moment? 178 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 2: Oh sure, yeah, last week of about thirty seconds. Look, 179 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 2: there's a whole host of reasons. I think probably the 180 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 2: biggest one is production costs. It costs a lot of 181 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 2: money to make an ad, and you know, to produce 182 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 2: a really great ad costs a lot of money. And 183 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 2: we don't have the population size or the volume of 184 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 2: sales that they perhaps do in the US or in 185 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 2: Europe to refresh that production budget. So people have to 186 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:37,319 Speaker 2: be conservative with a small amount of money to make 187 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 2: a great ad. We also have very short tenure of 188 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 2: chief marketing offices tend to be very short, and you know, 189 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 2: These kind of big ads require a long selling in 190 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 2: a company. They require credibility and tenure. So look, I 191 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 2: could crap on about this for days. Sure, a lot 192 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 2: of week production costs is the big one. 193 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: The podcasts then come to an Sorry, Ben, we have 194 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 1: to cut you off. 195 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:04,079 Speaker 2: It's Rogan podcast. 196 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: Okay, thanks for talking to us this morning on Fear 197 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: and Greed. 198 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:10,559 Speaker 2: Thanks very much for having me. 199 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 1: That has been Willie, General Manager and Media director of 200 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: Spinach Advertising Agency. This is the Fear and Greed at 201 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 1: Business Interview. Join us every morning for the full episode 202 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 1: of Fear and Greed at Daily Business. Years of people 203 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:23,679 Speaker 1: who make their own decisions. I'm sure they all man. 204 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:24,560 Speaker 2: Enjoy your day.