Speaker 1: Because it's easy to say, oh, you've got if people
Speaker 1: are more vulnerable, but what does that actually mean? But
Speaker 1: otherwise are kind of like feeling like you don't have
Speaker 1: enough autonomy in your relationship but not actually been out
Speaker 1: with say it, you know. So what you do is
Speaker 1: you become a bit passive aggressive around it, or you
Speaker 1: feel like you've been abandoned in the relationship or neglected
Speaker 1: in the relationship.
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to separate bathrooms. We would like to
Speaker 2: acknowledge the Gadigor people of the Eor nation, the traditional
Speaker 2: custodians of this land, and pay our respects to the elders,
Speaker 2: both past and present.
Speaker 3: My name's Ali Dado.
Speaker 4: I'm cam Dado, and you know that we are advocates
Speaker 4: what longtime listeners will know that we are advocates of therapy,
Speaker 4: both individual and couples. Yep, we've benefited from that one
Speaker 4: on one time that dedicated tim to where there's someone
Speaker 4: in front of you with NOAHMO connection to you other
Speaker 4: than just to assist you to get to the heart
Speaker 4: of what you're wanting to heal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we do love our We do love our therapists,
Speaker 2: the ones that have come in and that we've spoken to,
Speaker 2: as well as the ones that we've actually gone and
Speaker 2: helped us with it as well. So we have a couple,
Speaker 2: a married couple who are doing something very new and
Speaker 2: innovative around therapy and psychology.
Speaker 4: Sean Soreklei and Helen Robinson experienced clinical psychologists and couples
Speaker 4: therapists with over thirty four years of combined experience in
Speaker 4: the public mental health sector and private practice. They are
Speaker 4: married and together founders of Dremoyne Psychology, a successful private
Speaker 4: psychology practice in Sydney where they've helped hundreds of couples
Speaker 4: to improve their relationship.
Speaker 2: And here's where it gets a little different. They're also
Speaker 2: the creators of Australia's first fully synchronized couple's coaching app,
Speaker 2: My Love Your Love.
Speaker 3: They also have.
Speaker 2: A book which we're going to be chatting about as well,
Speaker 2: and that's called The Eight Love Links. Are you a
Speaker 2: little bit curious? Well so are we. So let's welcome
Speaker 2: to the bathroom. Helen and Sean.
Speaker 4: How are you guys?
Speaker 5: Great, very happy to be here.
Speaker 6: Yeah, we're super excited to be in the bathroom with you.
Speaker 4: Do you do podcasts?
Speaker 5: We ourselves?
Speaker 4: Yeah, you've been guests on podcasts. Do you have your
Speaker 4: own podcasts?
Speaker 6: We don't have our own podcasts, which apa with the idea. Yeah,
Speaker 6: but we love going on other people's podcasts.
Speaker 4: Excellent if you had one in a toilet before, not
Speaker 4: in a toilet toilet.
Speaker 5: I do like the idea of separate toilets though, that'd
Speaker 5: be good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, even your own toilet, it's not separated conversation.
Speaker 4: We've moved into a new home recently and our bathroom
Speaker 4: off the master bedroom is like a cupboard. There's no window,
Speaker 4: there's no ventilation in there. And we've come from a
Speaker 4: house that had three bathrooms. One of them was an outhouse.
Speaker 4: That was Yeah, that was great. And now we've got
Speaker 4: the two heads inside the house. One of them is
Speaker 4: in a little cupboard in the bedroom. So I'm kind
Speaker 4: of deciding I think you can have that one, sweetheart.
Speaker 4: I'll just I'll find.
Speaker 6: Someone separate bus, separate toilets.
Speaker 5: Yes, is a room to build an outhouse. We'll bring
Speaker 5: them back.
Speaker 4: House. But I've decided if I get up early enough,
Speaker 4: I can go down to the surf beach and have
Speaker 4: a swim and then use the sheds down there.
Speaker 2: And there is something, there is something about an outhouse,
Speaker 2: isn't there that?
Speaker 3: This makes a lot of sense when you think about it.
Speaker 4: What is that? What sense?
Speaker 2: The sense of like you could have an outhouse ald
Speaker 2: to yourself if you if we had one.
Speaker 4: What kind of did in the other?
Speaker 1: Don't you think like in the old days, in the
Speaker 1: old builds, the toilet was separated. Yes, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of sense in that too. I don't want the stuff
Speaker 1: that goes down the toilet mixing with the tooth.
Speaker 6: Brush and and the bar, like having a nice relaxing
Speaker 6: bar without.
Speaker 2: A toilet, without a toilet in there, people running in
Speaker 2: going can I get into those to use them?
Speaker 4: I blame Hollywood. I blame Hollywood because it's that the
Speaker 4: illusion of intimacy. Yes, we bathe and crab and it's
Speaker 4: all together, aren't we. Aren't we great?
Speaker 2: There's also stuffing about, like pouring with rain, and you've
Speaker 2: got to go to the outer house down and the
Speaker 2: red back on the.
Speaker 4: The red back. When I first moved to Sydney from Melbourne,
Speaker 4: I was well, I was eighteen nineteen. But my first
Speaker 4: home that I rented was at Whale Beach in Sydney,
Speaker 4: and it was the Old Tracks Publishing House and It
Speaker 4: was right on Whale Beach and it was this gorgeous
Speaker 4: old bungalow sort of thing, and out the back of
Speaker 4: it had an outhouse, so you actually had to walk
Speaker 4: out and into rainforest to get to this little dunny
Speaker 4: that was sitting out there.
Speaker 3: That was the only toilet.
Speaker 4: That was the only toilet in the house, right, So
Speaker 4: he'd sit out there and it'd be raining, as it
Speaker 4: tended to do up on the northern beaches around them,
Speaker 4: but you're in the rainforest and it literally was sweetheart.
Speaker 4: There were slugs and spiders in there, but you'd leave
Speaker 4: the door open and it'd be all these lunth of
Speaker 4: palms and all right.
Speaker 5: Getting back to.
Speaker 6: The Yellow I don't know how it'd been at you know,
Speaker 6: three am in the morning.
Speaker 4: Well, see, that's when one of my brothers stayed and
Speaker 4: I said, where did you go to the toilet last night?
Speaker 4: Because it was raining, and he gets, I just opened
Speaker 4: the front window and peede out the front. Wow, it
Speaker 4: was great because the moon was on the water and
Speaker 4: I was watching the surf. But all the roses underneath
Speaker 4: got killed.
Speaker 3: So boys can do that a little bit.
Speaker 4: Hey, Welcome to the Bathroom Podcast.
Speaker 3: All Bathroom chat.
Speaker 4: We We begin usually by asking people how they met
Speaker 4: and and you two, given what you do your psychologists' therapists,
Speaker 4: how did you meet? How did that come about?
Speaker 6: Well, we actually met at work, so we were both
Speaker 6: working at Bankstown Community Mental Health Service and we'd seen
Speaker 6: each other around, I think. But within about two three
Speaker 6: weeks of me being there, unfortunately a new client of
Speaker 6: mine passed away, which is hard enough to kind of
Speaker 6: process as it is. And then I was just at
Speaker 6: my desk and this tall, handsome man kind of comes
Speaker 6: up and kind of crouches he is, He kind of
Speaker 6: crouches down next to my desk, looks me in the
Speaker 6: eye and just I can't really remember what he said,
Speaker 6: but he was just being super kind and validating around,
Speaker 6: you know, having lost a client, and it was just
Speaker 6: really heartfelt, and I was like, it was really nice.
Speaker 6: But I was like, who is this guy? He's gorgeous
Speaker 6: and he's got this beautiful god. But that's how we met.
Speaker 6: That wasn't the beginning of our relationship.
Speaker 1: I was single at the time, but Helen wasn't. And
Speaker 1: then she was single, yeah, and I was dating somebody
Speaker 1: and then she was like, oh, by the way, I'm
Speaker 1: single now just dropping it in.
Speaker 4: I'm like, oh, I'm not.
Speaker 1: And then the time came in the stars aligne and
Speaker 1: we're both single and like, oh, let's just hang out
Speaker 1: a little bit together and take it nice and slow
Speaker 1: and casual.
Speaker 2: We're still working at the same facility together. At that
Speaker 2: point we were probably dating. Was that is that allowed?
Speaker 4: Well?
Speaker 6: Neither we were on separate teams and yeah, we weren't.
Speaker 6: No one was each other's bosses.
Speaker 3: Yeah, gotcha.
Speaker 6: So yeah, power and balances were because side of things to.
Speaker 1: Come though, because like we work in every aspect together
Speaker 1: now still.
Speaker 3: Right, No, that's things.
Speaker 2: So did you were you dating and then dating married
Speaker 2: then opened your own business or how did that all
Speaker 2: come about? Because you've got your own and how long.
Speaker 4: Ago was this?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so in twenty seven we've been together for eleven
Speaker 1: years and we got married in twenty seventeen, and I
Speaker 1: think we opened our private practice in twenty seventeen. Also, okay,
Speaker 1: so we're working privately in other practices and other like
Speaker 1: psychology clinics, yeap, And we just said, okay, i think
Speaker 1: it's time to do our own thing. And we actually
Speaker 1: started just a tool of us and we joke about
Speaker 1: it now because.
Speaker 5: We did everything. We did the admin, we.
Speaker 1: Were the psychologists, yeah, every aspect, and today we've got
Speaker 1: a team of like fourteen fifteen people, So like it's
Speaker 1: grown pretty quickly since then.
Speaker 2: When you argue, like who does the therapy, we boys
Speaker 2: do it.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Do you ever say, do we just stuck therapizing me?
Speaker 4: You know? Did you know the tricks? Right? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think what we know that The thing is we
Speaker 1: know the tricks. So what we're good at is coming
Speaker 1: back and repairing. Sure, but we can argue just as
Speaker 1: much as any other couple. Yeah, when you're walking around,
Speaker 1: you're walking away, you can't of like, oh I don't
Speaker 1: want to talk to them. The little voice in your
Speaker 1: head's going, yeah, you know, that's not going to be helpful.
Speaker 1: And this isn't about the you know, the angry sort
Speaker 1: of comments that just went back and forth. There's something
Speaker 1: vulnerable going on. If we need to go back and
Speaker 1: reconnect and work it out, and we do. We come
Speaker 1: together pretty quickly.
Speaker 6: Absolutely, And it's always the idea that the relationships bigger
Speaker 6: than this little argument. So we need to come back together,
Speaker 6: work out what just happened, validate each other, and then
Speaker 6: we can we can go back to being friends again,
Speaker 6: which is way nicer.
Speaker 4: Validate, validate each other. That's important.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you said that like a question.
Speaker 4: Did you know we did to validate each other?
Speaker 3: Ali?
Speaker 6: How validated I can?
Speaker 2: Do you feel actually very doing it?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you do? You do that lot?
Speaker 4: I find Yeah, looks very in a bit of a
Speaker 4: session now, but I'm not.
Speaker 3: Do you feel like I validate you?
Speaker 4: The voice shoulders are gone up. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: There's a thing around validation that's tricky.
Speaker 4: Well, there is. There is. Validation for me is a
Speaker 4: word that is a hot button loaded, a loaded Why
Speaker 4: so because I needed a lot of it early on
Speaker 4: and I still there, so I dealt with that. I'm flushing,
Speaker 4: I can feel it. My body temperature is going up.
Speaker 4: I can feel that. So I got through the big bits,
Speaker 4: you know, the big chunks of what is the validation
Speaker 4: that I keep seeking, and then it became has become
Speaker 4: more nuanced now, so I've got to pay attention to
Speaker 4: the little bits. Yeah, because they can grow and make
Speaker 4: a big bit again.
Speaker 6: And that's not okay, that's so insightful though, like I think,
Speaker 6: and it is. It is like there's big things that
Speaker 6: need validation like how existence and who we are. But
Speaker 6: then there's little nuances, like you say, that are particular
Speaker 6: to each of us, so you know, we will have
Speaker 6: our own little vulnerabilities.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And I think to distinguish as well. Sometimes we
Speaker 1: feel like we need approval to be worthy, which is
Speaker 1: it's different to like validating each other's emotions and experiences.
Speaker 4: That's the difference.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think.
Speaker 4: So that's good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So yeah, I know, Cameron, because I'm reading your
Speaker 1: book at the moment, which I'm loving my book, Yeah,
Speaker 1: keep it smooth. Yes, I picked it up just a
Speaker 1: few days ago from Dimmicks in City, and I'm always
Speaker 1: already one hundred pages into it, really enjoying it. But
Speaker 1: I just was really kind of like touched by how
Speaker 1: much vuldability and the anxiety that you went through, you know,
Speaker 1: with the with the starter and stuff like that, and
Speaker 1: having to face that time and time again. So like
Speaker 1: I can connect with what you're saying there, I think.
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, you know, it's actually the big chunks are
Speaker 4: in the book and the little chunks are.
Speaker 3: Into bookstalls.
Speaker 4: Keeping it for you two. Is there a way of
Speaker 4: cutting through that language so that you know it's really heartfelt.
Speaker 4: Is that part of it?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think, like I think we've created a language.
Speaker 6: Like so we created our own kind of couples therapy program,
Speaker 6: if you will, for our clients, and we do it ourselves.
Speaker 6: So we created a language inside that program, and we
Speaker 6: do try and use that language. So it can when
Speaker 6: you start, it can feel a bit contrived or forced,
Speaker 6: but with practice, and like a big chunk of the
Speaker 6: work around validating and taking listening to each other and
Speaker 6: taking care of each other is in the body. Language,
Speaker 6: is in the tone, is in the presence. So the
Speaker 6: language is important, but there's a lot more to that
Speaker 6: as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, to introduce you to some of the language, and
Speaker 1: that's okay, And this is like just something little, but
Speaker 1: it's something big at the same time. So we talk
Speaker 1: about what we call secondary conflict emotions, say anything from
Speaker 1: like the spectrum of frustration to rage, but also like
Speaker 1: disconnected kind of states where you've got to wall up
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, mission and submission. So we say
Speaker 1: there's secondary conflict emotions. But underneath that for those two exist,
Speaker 1: there has to be invulnerable feeling. So if you've got anger,
Speaker 1: for example, inside that anger is the vulnerability and the
Speaker 1: anger is not going to be there without the vulnerability.
Speaker 1: So if we have an argument and that, you know,
Speaker 1: it gets a bit feisty, we need to go back
Speaker 1: and say to ourselves, Okay, I'm revved up now, or
Speaker 1: my walls up, or I'm being defensive or whatever it
Speaker 1: might be, what's going on for me inside? What's the
Speaker 1: vulnerability that's been activated? And then I need to try
Speaker 1: and think about hell and say what do I think
Speaker 1: is going on for her? Because she's having a different
Speaker 1: story with two different people, and often we're fighting over
Speaker 1: surface stuff, and you know, then when those secondary conflict
Speaker 1: emotions get in, once being defense, once trying to point
Speaker 1: score that sort of thing, we're actually missing the core
Speaker 1: of what's going on underneath. So just even having that
Speaker 1: concept in mind, we need to come back and say
Speaker 1: what's going on? And our repairs amazing. When we first
Speaker 1: got together, we were not perfect. We us have big fights,
Speaker 1: but now it's great, like it's and that's what you
Speaker 1: want to do. You want to limit the amount of
Speaker 1: time the conflicts been going.
Speaker 2: Do you feel like there is just one main theme
Speaker 2: that couples really fight about. Is it just that we're
Speaker 2: two people are just terrified of being vulnerable? Is that
Speaker 2: or is it two people are not seeing each other's perspective, Like,
Speaker 2: is there an ongoing theme that seems to.
Speaker 3: Be at the very root base of all arguments.
Speaker 6: I think I think it's very much like there is
Speaker 6: an avoidance of the invulnerable feelings. So, like you say,
Speaker 6: it is like a fear of being vulnerable. I think
Speaker 6: there's also maybe we're not very good at finding vulnerability
Speaker 6: as well, and I think can this kind of you've
Speaker 6: worked hard to work out what your particular vulnerabilities are,
Speaker 6: and then we can we know how to take care
Speaker 6: of them. So I think everyone's vulnerabilities might be a
Speaker 6: little bit different and it's scary to go there. So
Speaker 6: there's a lot of secondary stuff that gets in the
Speaker 6: way and creates further tension and conflict. So, like you know,
Speaker 6: for someone like for me, it's like a sense of
Speaker 6: feeling non important or not included or something like that.
Speaker 6: So that might be one of my particular vulnerabilities, but
Speaker 6: it will come out in a completely unrelated way. So
Speaker 6: it's really about knowing what these are so that we
Speaker 6: can take care of them individually, like for ourselves, but
Speaker 6: also so our partner can learn how to make sure
Speaker 6: that they're taking care of our particular vulnerabilities.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the vulnerabilities as Helen's kind of really
Speaker 1: alluding to that they are very different for different people,
Speaker 1: because it's easy to say, oh, if people are more vulnerable,
Speaker 1: but what is that actually mean, you know, with the
Speaker 1: hell and just use an example about herself, But otherwise
Speaker 1: are kind of like feeling like you don't have enough
Speaker 1: autonomy in your relationship but not actually been able to
Speaker 1: say it, you know, So what you do is you
Speaker 1: become a bit passive aggressive around it, or you feel
Speaker 1: like you're a bit abandoned in the relationship or neglected
Speaker 1: in the relationship, you know, Or you feel like you
Speaker 1: don't have enough power in the relationship, or you feel
Speaker 1: like you have too much power in.
Speaker 4: A relationship and the other person isn't doing anything.
Speaker 1: So there's so many things we kind of say avoidance
Speaker 1: is the silent relationship killer, Like you can put it
Speaker 1: down to big life events, but they're often the things
Speaker 1: that push the relationship over the edge.
Speaker 4: But we avoid talking about the vulnerabilities in the book,
Speaker 4: do you speak or give examples? It often helps me
Speaker 4: help through my journey with therapy. To I would say
Speaker 4: to the therapist, I don't even know. I don't know
Speaker 4: how to articulate this. I don't know what words to use.
Speaker 4: I need help, I need a script. And then once
Speaker 4: I have got script, I was like, oh, okay, now
Speaker 4: I can evolve that script and turn that into my
Speaker 4: own words. Are you doing that too? Giving help to
Speaker 4: people to give them words and make them their own.
Speaker 6: Absolutely, And I think that's really important because we're not
Speaker 6: We're trained in so many things as children and adolescents
Speaker 6: and adults, but we're not trained in emotional awareness and expression.
Speaker 6: So even emotion words like how are you feeling right now?
Speaker 6: A lot of people say they go, I don't know,
Speaker 6: and so yeah. So throughout the book, throughout each of
Speaker 6: the kind of links that we talk about, there's eight.
Speaker 6: Each one will have different kind of step by step
Speaker 6: guides of how do we do this. So, for instance,
Speaker 6: there's big emotion lists to use, so when we're kind
Speaker 6: of feeling each other's story and feeding back the validation
Speaker 6: piece of I'm hearing this and you're feeling this, and
Speaker 6: so we provide those kind of step by step guides
Speaker 6: and the lists, and we also provide a list of
Speaker 6: those vulnerabilities that we've been talking about, so so that
Speaker 6: you can be like, oh, that sounds like that sounds
Speaker 6: like me, So it's already kind of the hard work's done.
Speaker 6: You can just pick which of those vulnerabilities.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think when we created the eight Love lengths a
Speaker 1: point of difference we wanted to make. I think when
Speaker 1: it comes to sort of relationship books, you get some
Speaker 1: that are like, you know, they can be really practical
Speaker 1: but quite dry, and you get some that are really
Speaker 1: kind of like insightful, but they're not practical in application
Speaker 1: at all. You know, we're talking about vulnerabilities and conflict
Speaker 1: emotions now, but that really only covers probably a couple
Speaker 1: of the links. So in each of the eight Love Links,
Speaker 1: there's always there's a practical guide and like self inside
Speaker 1: exercises that you do throughout it, you can totally read
Speaker 1: it yourself. It's for anybody in a relationship, but we
Speaker 1: kind of saying the beginning, if your partner's into it,
Speaker 1: definitely like read a chapter each, come back and ask
Speaker 1: each other their specifically because even like things like quality
Speaker 1: time people, Oh you've got to spend quality time together,
Speaker 1: but like how do you do it?
Speaker 4: You know, what it is. We're going to say, what
Speaker 4: is the definition of quality time? Because you get a
Speaker 4: lot of people going, oh, we need to spend some
Speaker 4: quality time. Put it in and it becomes this whole
Speaker 4: food through thing and you stare at each other and
Speaker 4: you're going, so, what is quality time to you guys?
Speaker 4: Because I know the definition changes between people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's a couple of different elements to
Speaker 1: quality time. So we kind of like for us to
Speaker 1: break it up. One is about knowing the inner world
Speaker 1: of your partner and checking in on the inner world
Speaker 1: of your partner. We do this in a really practical
Speaker 1: way in a sense. We're like, we have a big
Speaker 1: list of questions that you can ask about your partner's past,
Speaker 1: about the president, about the future, about their childhood impacts,
Speaker 1: about their hopes, their dreams and desires. So it's developing
Speaker 1: a habit of checking in on partners in the world.
Speaker 1: But as I said, we give the questions to make
Speaker 1: it easier.
Speaker 4: Great.
Speaker 1: The other part is very much related to continuing to
Speaker 1: grow as an individual within the couple. Okay, so we
Speaker 1: as a couple learn and grow as individuals, and there's
Speaker 1: a term called self expansion. So like, for example, when
Speaker 1: you first meet your partner, you grow because they're different
Speaker 1: to you. They have a different kind of like family, culture,
Speaker 1: might have a different education or upbringing. You continue to
Speaker 1: expand through knowing them, but then that runs dry. So
Speaker 1: part of the quality time is working out what do
Speaker 1: you have in terms of your joint values and what
Speaker 1: can we do in these these spears together to continue
Speaker 1: to grow and have adventure.
Speaker 4: What are you thinking?
Speaker 3: Oh, no, no, I think that's awesome. I was thinking.
Speaker 2: I know we've we've talked a lot about the Gotman
Speaker 2: Institute and you know there they talk about, you know,
Speaker 2: doing the weekly check in, which is very much what
Speaker 2: you're talking about, you know, sitting down on a Sunday
Speaker 2: or ever and just creating time to go.
Speaker 3: How is you weak? You know what? What is there
Speaker 3: more needs that you have? You know? How you're feeling
Speaker 3: about this?
Speaker 2: And and I mean we've you know, it's it's again,
Speaker 2: it's that feeling of that your partner just cares about
Speaker 2: your inner world.
Speaker 3: Really, that's really what you're talking about, isn't it. That
Speaker 3: It's like that's it's.
Speaker 2: Not about like a you know, there's the external things
Speaker 2: of like I put gas in your car fuel and
Speaker 2: your car for you, and you know, little things that
Speaker 2: are lovely make a difference. But yeah, for me, it's
Speaker 2: it's always been that. You know, what's how you're feeling
Speaker 2: about this now what's changed for you? You know, all
Speaker 2: of those things are just that they're the they're the
Speaker 2: links for me that are always make the biggest difference. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So our third love link is called magic moments. And
Speaker 1: like the good thing about the eight love links too,
Speaker 1: is we're distilled all the research, so we reference the
Speaker 1: goopments in there, and the golopments talk about the couples
Speaker 1: who are successful constantly turned towards each other for bids
Speaker 1: of connection. So we talk about we break that down
Speaker 1: a bit and say, well, how come they do it? Okay,
Speaker 1: And the reason they do it is because they're in
Speaker 1: a habit of doing it. And so one of our
Speaker 1: lumblings is called magic moments, and it's essentially how the
Speaker 1: small moments matter the most.
Speaker 4: In your relationship.
Speaker 1: And it could just be like a kiss goodbye, but
Speaker 1: it's heartfelt, or it could be like let me make
Speaker 1: you a cup of tea, but it's heartfelt.
Speaker 4: It's this constant look looking to connect each day.
Speaker 6: What do you guys do for each other? What kind
Speaker 6: of little mats?
Speaker 4: One thing I didn't do yesterday after I soa our's
Speaker 4: car is one of the things that I do like
Speaker 4: to take care of. It also drives me nuts because
Speaker 4: she's not very she's she'll leave papers and stuff in.
Speaker 6: That I can relate to them.
Speaker 4: That's okay, it's a bit of a mess.
Speaker 3: It's needed to take me from here to there.
Speaker 4: She's okay. However, we've got a problem with the inflation
Speaker 4: of the tires at the moment. I did pump your
Speaker 4: tires up the other day. I just I just impressed
Speaker 4: the button to connect it. But they are pumped up.
Speaker 4: It's the back right one that's the problem. Anyway, it's
Speaker 4: cups of tea. It's again, and it's just I don't know,
Speaker 4: it's just checking in we as you know, we just
Speaker 4: before we started recording. We've just moved to a new house.
Speaker 4: So it's for me. It was all. It's about making
Speaker 4: sure that the nest is feathered and getting getting those
Speaker 4: little things done. So like yesterday was a day of minutia,
Speaker 4: like making sure that the shells were made in her
Speaker 4: office so she could put all the stuff away and
Speaker 4: that's yeah, that's making hers but it's those things, you know.
Speaker 4: So also that you make sure that the fence is fixed,
Speaker 4: that the dog doesn't escape, so that when I go
Speaker 4: play golf and our wants to go for a walk,
Speaker 4: she's not gonna be worried about the dock. But I mean,
Speaker 4: that's that's how I do it. I just kind of
Speaker 4: have that that thing going. I want to make life
Speaker 4: as simple as possible. I think that's so she could
Speaker 4: focus on what she wants to do.
Speaker 5: That's one of the keys to a good relationship.
Speaker 4: Though.
Speaker 1: I think what you're saying there camera is you've got
Speaker 1: Ali in your mind. That's definitely when you're going through
Speaker 1: your day or your life, you go, how is this
Speaker 1: going to help or hinder?
Speaker 4: You know? And I think that's.
Speaker 2: Huge And because I know, I mean we've been together
Speaker 2: for thirty four years, so I know, you know, as
Speaker 2: we mentioned earlier, validation is a huge part of what
Speaker 2: Cam needs. So for me, it's like making sure I
Speaker 2: thank him for thank you so much for doing those shelves,
Speaker 2: thank you for moving us, thank you for doing like that.
Speaker 2: And I have to make sure I like really look
Speaker 2: at him.
Speaker 4: That's true.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it means so much outside.
Speaker 4: No, I want to do a proper cheer. Yeah, it's
Speaker 4: I want to Yeah. I mean it's a great word,
Speaker 4: isn't it. Connection? Absolutely, because disconnection is just as important
Speaker 4: in terms of how how that can just make someone
Speaker 4: feel absolute crap. If I feel like our said, if
Speaker 4: you don't feel like you don't matter, or you're not
Speaker 4: included to use your word before, then it can really
Speaker 4: send you in a spiral. You can feel very lonely
Speaker 4: in a relationship.
Speaker 2: There's nothing worse than feeling lonely in a relationship. It's
Speaker 2: just the worst.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so that thing and make it like our makes dinner,
Speaker 4: you know, six nights a week. I do it one.
Speaker 4: I missed it last night because justad too.
Speaker 5: Much on your movie.
Speaker 4: But Monday night was usually is my night usually because
Speaker 4: she'll teach on Mondays. And missed it. But you know.
Speaker 1: I just got to do one day one.
Speaker 4: You get one night one.
Speaker 3: Luckily I had a lasagna to throw in the oven.
Speaker 3: It was easy that you pre made.
Speaker 2: I'm guessing, oh yeah, she made. Do you have a
Speaker 2: go to date night activity that you both do that
Speaker 2: you just really helps you connect.
Speaker 5: That's a great question.
Speaker 1: What's how we do a lot like this isn't a
Speaker 1: date night, but we connect multiple times during the week
Speaker 1: to walk our dog and go for a coffee.
Speaker 5: Like that's one of our favorite things.
Speaker 6: It probably is our walking. I think we because we
Speaker 6: have a very needy dog as well, and so he
Speaker 6: comes to most things with us. But yeah, so we
Speaker 6: love walking, We love being in nature, and we really chat,
Speaker 6: really connect, and we don't.
Speaker 1: Mind going into the city and finding a nice restaurant.
Speaker 1: That's just having fun.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 1: One thing I love about Helen is she's she can
Speaker 1: be very proper, but she can be a bit reckless
Speaker 1: and spontaneous and fun too, And like we want to
Speaker 1: tap into that. How our relationship used to be a
Speaker 1: long time ago. Now there's a lot more responsibility.
Speaker 4: What about karaoke? Do you e have you that?
Speaker 6: Oh gosh, I'm probably the worst.
Speaker 5: Helen only sings in private.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: I've heard her a couple of times when she thought
Speaker 1: I wasn't home. That's about it.
Speaker 6: Whereas Shan sings all the time, usually about the dog.
Speaker 5: Right, And it's not because I have a good voice either.
Speaker 4: Tell us about the app this is this is really
Speaker 4: intriguing to us. I think it's really innovative and something
Speaker 4: that people can really get behind and use.
Speaker 2: It's called My Love, Your Love. And how long is
Speaker 2: it have you had it on the market force?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's been on the market for a few years now. Yeah.
Speaker 1: To be honest, it's been its best iteration in the
Speaker 1: first like probably the first half of this year. What
Speaker 1: I mean by that is we were kind of like,
Speaker 1: we have a developer obviously, but it's totally self funded
Speaker 1: and we've released it in chucks and continually updated it.
Speaker 4: So it's looking at a makeovers. So this is a
Speaker 4: good time to be talking about it.
Speaker 5: Absolutely.
Speaker 2: That's what apps are four Like, you keep updating them,
Speaker 2: don't you.
Speaker 3: You shift and it changes and yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: So the app is basically a couple's coaching app. So
Speaker 1: there's a big focus on symptomology in the medical industry.
Speaker 4: What's symptomology?
Speaker 1: What I mean is like typically, especially the last fifty years,
Speaker 1: we're goting to be better at it.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 1: You go the doctor when there's a problem, and they
Speaker 1: treat the problem. They don't treat the cause necessarily, Like
Speaker 1: for example, you go on medication for type two diabetes,
Speaker 1: but if someone had told you a long time ago,
Speaker 1: to cut the sugar out, eat a lot more veggies,
Speaker 1: into a lot more running. Not that I'm giving any
Speaker 1: medical advice because I'm not a medical doctor.
Speaker 4: It's an example you can.
Speaker 1: So we wanted to create an app not just to
Speaker 1: help couples who have relationship problems, but to actually say,
Speaker 1: here is the blueprint to keep your relationship positive and
Speaker 1: growing in a thriving nature across the lifespan. And the
Speaker 1: app is huge, so you know, we sometimes see things
Speaker 1: like we're talking about those questions, they're getting to know
Speaker 1: new questions, Like we see apps that do that, but
Speaker 1: ours does that. We have, you know, a ton of
Speaker 1: those questions. But that is the tiniest fraction of the app.
Speaker 1: There's like five or six cores. I say five or
Speaker 1: six because there's five modules and one kind of hidden one,
Speaker 1: and it covers all the realms. So for example, learning
Speaker 1: how to listen and validate each other as a big
Speaker 1: one has a whole module on conflict, which is giving
Speaker 1: you all the different strategies like we've mentioned one of them,
Speaker 1: you know, vulnerable feelings and secondary conflict emotions and learning
Speaker 1: how to develop and apply that insight. Then we have
Speaker 1: deep connections. We have a module called Baggage Claim which
Speaker 1: helps you discover what am I bringing into the relationship,
Speaker 1: where does it come from?
Speaker 4: Family?
Speaker 6: That's all your vulnerabilities that we're talking about. It really
Speaker 6: identifying them and knowing what yours are and what happens
Speaker 6: when they kind of burst open in the relationship.
Speaker 5: Do sex and desire? I've just got to add that one.
Speaker 3: Oh, and there's that. The last one, the last.
Speaker 5: One, last link and last module.
Speaker 2: Is it Do you need to have your partner have
Speaker 2: download the app as well? Is it important that you
Speaker 2: have the both of you doing it or can just
Speaker 2: one person?
Speaker 6: So with the app, both people, both partners need to
Speaker 6: be doing the app at the same time, and we
Speaker 6: did that to be really real and genuine with the product.
Speaker 6: So what we find in couples therapies, if two people
Speaker 6: are there and willing, then anything can happen. Magic can
Speaker 6: really happen now, and so we created the app with
Speaker 6: that in mind that two people need to do it together.
Speaker 6: So although it's on a screen, you're not on the
Speaker 6: screen all the time. You're using it as a tool
Speaker 6: to connect more and be in person or sometimes if
Speaker 6: we're on long distance over zoom or something. But that's
Speaker 6: part of the reason why we wrote the book is
Speaker 6: because a lot of the feedback was, well, my partner's
Speaker 6: not ready to do the app what do I do?
Speaker 6: And I'm like, oh, good point.
Speaker 4: So, yeah, you just answered my question. Yeah, is it
Speaker 4: possible for one person to work on a relationship when
Speaker 4: the other one is a little bit unwilling for whatever reason?
Speaker 1: Yeah, the answer is definitely yes, And I'll explain that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, going back to Helen's point, we always say
Speaker 1: people can in the couple's therapy and say, what's the
Speaker 1: chances of this working? My response is always, if both
Speaker 1: people are willing to look at themselves and put effort
Speaker 1: into a relationship, it's one hundred percent. But coming back
Speaker 1: to your question, yes, absolutely, So we talk about in
Speaker 1: the book how you're part of a relationship system. We
Speaker 1: kind of like use the analogy of a yin and
Speaker 1: a yang, and so the theory behind it is, and
Speaker 1: this is based on systems theory psychology, okay, is when
Speaker 1: you change the environment and the people within your system
Speaker 1: and the world around you has to adjust to your change.
Speaker 1: So you can totally look within yourself and make some
Speaker 1: significant changes and you can, and that can breed very
Speaker 1: beautifully into the relationship, whether or not you're the good
Speaker 1: partner or the bad partner. That can have profound kind
Speaker 1: of change, which is why we wanted to put the
Speaker 1: book out as well.
Speaker 2: What kind of feedback have you sort of had from
Speaker 2: couples that have used the app? Have you found that
Speaker 2: it's been really a huge help for them?
Speaker 1: Absolutely? Yeah, So the people who it's like couples therapy
Speaker 1: and I kind of like it. I'm going to be
Speaker 1: honest about this.
Speaker 5: Right if no, lie lie. So if you're used.
Speaker 1: To TikTok and reels on Instagram and being utterly entertained,
Speaker 1: and you're like, I'm going to get this up.
Speaker 4: It's going to be so much fun.
Speaker 3: It's not like there's no gamification on it.
Speaker 5: There is some gamification on it.
Speaker 3: Like building out at the moment in the app.
Speaker 4: So she's gamificating metophausefication.
Speaker 1: So for example, when you do those little magic moments
Speaker 1: or those little special things like we give you random
Speaker 1: tasks to do which brought up and you get your
Speaker 1: score accumulates and you can spy on each other's score
Speaker 1: to see who's doing more and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: I'm married to a very competitive right there you go, right, every.
Speaker 6: Motivating I'm very motivating.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but we kind of liken it to going to
Speaker 1: the gym. Sometimes you go to the gym and love
Speaker 1: it and sometimes you don't, but whenever you do it,
Speaker 1: you feel great afterwards. Right, And so whenever it's your
Speaker 1: relationships like that too. There's so many distractions, but when
Speaker 1: you invest in it, the rewards are great and you know,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of mastery in it and there's a lot.
Speaker 4: Of connection in it.
Speaker 1: So the app, the people who use it will give
Speaker 1: us amazing feedback, but you've got to be able to
Speaker 1: commit to it, just like anything else.
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, And who's the app for? Would you say?
Speaker 6: I think it's really for like it takes a coaching aspect,
Speaker 6: so it can be for anyone that's in a relationship.
Speaker 6: So the app's definitely for people in relationships. It could
Speaker 6: be if you're struggling a little bit and you don't
Speaker 6: know where to start. Part of why we created and
Speaker 6: app was also accessibility. So it's really hard to get
Speaker 6: into a couple's therapists. It's very expensive and managing timetables
Speaker 6: is very challenging. Two people's plus the therapist. So we
Speaker 6: wanted to make something more affordable and accessible if you
Speaker 6: don't have the privilege of getting into couples therapy. So
Speaker 6: it could be for couples that are struggling, that don't
Speaker 6: know where to go or can't go anywhere else, because
Speaker 6: there are some really great tools. That's what we teach
Speaker 6: those same tools in couples therapy. But it's also for
Speaker 6: couples who want to just get the most, like squeeze
Speaker 6: the most out of their relationship, kind of unlock the
Speaker 6: benefits of a long term relationship is what we like
Speaker 6: to call it.
Speaker 1: That's what we're all about. We really we don't want
Speaker 1: to fix problems. I mean we want to untie those
Speaker 1: it's not sure, but we want actually people to get
Speaker 1: all the benefits.
Speaker 4: Of a long lasting relationship.
Speaker 7: And all the.
Speaker 1: Evidence and research shows your mental health in a really
Speaker 1: good relationship, is it fantastic.
Speaker 4: Yes.
Speaker 5: In a really bad relationship, it's horrible.
Speaker 2: Well I know that for myself, even when we're fighting,
Speaker 2: I just it's just I feel shitty about everything, Like
Speaker 2: everything feels bad.
Speaker 5: It's all consuming, it is.
Speaker 2: It is, so, I mean, that's and that's just in
Speaker 2: a relationship that you know, we've been together for a
Speaker 2: long time, but even just when it's having its ebbs
Speaker 2: and flow is there, it's not fun.
Speaker 4: It isn't isn't the app for those listeners of those
Speaker 4: walking the dog right now listening my love, your love.
Speaker 4: So just put that in the back of your mind
Speaker 4: while we continue our conversation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you work together, You've created an app together, you've
Speaker 2: written a book together. What's the best thing that you
Speaker 2: find about working with each other in this way?
Speaker 6: Well maybe that's different for each of us, but I
Speaker 6: think for me, I just really love having a partner
Speaker 6: to do these big things because I think I grew
Speaker 6: up not really expecting Like that sounds terrible what I
Speaker 6: was going to say, not expecting much, but you know,
Speaker 6: being successful in a career and so on. But I
Speaker 6: think being in this relationship has really opened up this
Speaker 6: idea that we can do some pretty wild things. You know,
Speaker 6: we can start an app when we don't know how
Speaker 6: to do and make apps. Yeah, we can open practices
Speaker 6: and expand and stuff. So I think that's what I
Speaker 6: love the most about us working together. It's like an
Speaker 6: added confidence boost. You know, we can work it through,
Speaker 6: we can push the other one when the other one's
Speaker 6: kind of down and going this is all too hard.
Speaker 6: And I think we do that really well for each other.
Speaker 6: We can kind of balance each other out and where
Speaker 6: you know, I am really detail focused and Shun's like
Speaker 6: the big ideas guys, So we really I think I
Speaker 6: love that too. I'm always like, oh, I don't know
Speaker 6: if that's going to work, but then I'm like, okay, fine,
Speaker 6: let's do it and see and I'll help with the
Speaker 6: nitty gritty.
Speaker 5: Yeah, for sure. Helen's a machine.
Speaker 1: And like what I've just covered from Helen as well,
Speaker 1: Sorry babe, is you can cry and still be the
Speaker 1: strongest person in the room.
Speaker 5: Because she can get overwhelmed and cry.
Speaker 1: But the dedication and the discipline when she all she
Speaker 1: has to do is decide, Okay, this is a good idea,
Speaker 1: this is what we're doing. The ability to turn up
Speaker 1: and keep doing the work like she's second to like,
Speaker 1: I'm kind of like it kind of empowers me or
Speaker 1: encourages me to like or maybe out of kind of
Speaker 1: infe you're getting in trouble, I'm like, okay, I have
Speaker 1: to do my bit. You get in there, make sure
Speaker 1: I'm keeping up. Yeah, but The other thing as well
Speaker 1: is kind of look, I will talk. I will mention
Speaker 1: this because I read it in your book. I thought
Speaker 1: it was really great in the introduction about how you're
Speaker 1: in the pack of swimmers and you can be in
Speaker 1: the middle and feel safe. And when you write a
Speaker 1: book or when you create an app, you know you're
Speaker 1: putting yourself out there and you know it exposes you
Speaker 1: feel more vulnerable, more people can have shots at you
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. And being together means like you're
Speaker 1: not on the outside by yourself no matter what, because
Speaker 1: the relationships could you've always got each other.
Speaker 4: And that's the most important thing. So that's been a
Speaker 4: wonderful thing as well. Yeah, of course it's interesting, isn't it.
Speaker 4: In order to push out and grow, you really do
Speaker 4: need to do it from the edge. You do it,
Speaker 4: and it's a vulnerable place to be.
Speaker 6: Absolutely it feels so risky, doesn't it.
Speaker 4: It does.
Speaker 6: You're exposing yourself and.
Speaker 5: Is it's scary.
Speaker 1: You're putting ideas down and there you're like, how is
Speaker 1: this going to be? You see the people going to
Speaker 1: like you know, and people can be like armchair warriors
Speaker 1: and stuff like that.
Speaker 6: I'm sure you have experienced.
Speaker 4: My dad reminded me of that wonderful Roosevelt eleanor eleanor Roosevelt,
Speaker 4: the poem that she writes about the being in the arena,
Speaker 4: the man in the arena, because I just I got
Speaker 4: raped on the on the front page of the Sydney
Speaker 4: Morning Herald for over a play that I was doing.
Speaker 4: That the reviewer actually used me as an example. It
Speaker 4: wasn't even about me, It was really an example of
Speaker 4: what Australian entertainment was. This is a number of years ago,
Speaker 4: and it was it was so unfair and I saw
Speaker 4: it on a faery. I was on the ferry and
Speaker 4: some guy was reading the thing and I meant, really
Speaker 4: cut me, But my dad actually said, cam, you're in
Speaker 4: the arena absolutely doing it, you know. He said, anyone
Speaker 4: who can tell you about anything is someone who's in
Speaker 4: the arena with you.
Speaker 6: Absolutely.
Speaker 4: I love that great advice. That's we always say to ourselves.
Speaker 4: We're not going to die.
Speaker 1: Wondering, you know, and like you're going to put yourself
Speaker 1: out there. It's going to be a bit more risky
Speaker 1: and vulnerable, but you get to live the life you
Speaker 1: want to live, and that's that's what we find rewarding, right,
Speaker 1: Like we're living a life.
Speaker 6: We want to live, and you get stronger that way
Speaker 6: as well, Like you kind of go, I'm living not
Speaker 6: caring what people think so much like I think so
Speaker 6: many humans are plagued with this fear of how they're
Speaker 6: perceived from what people think of them. We all are, right,
Speaker 6: it comes in human nature, absolutely, but it's really cool
Speaker 6: to push that and go, no, I'm going to just
Speaker 6: do this and I'm going to try this. There's no
Speaker 6: harm in the in the trying, and there's no mal
Speaker 6: intention either. So yeah, I think you get stronger from it.
Speaker 6: I'm sure you grew from that experience.
Speaker 4: Yes I did. Yeah, it's yeah, you do. And it
Speaker 4: also makes you understand, you know what, you can't control
Speaker 4: anybody else, that people are going to have their opinions.
Speaker 4: So you've just got to do what's in your heart
Speaker 4: and what's what you follow your intention and bring it
Speaker 4: back to what you believe exactly, going, yeah, and I
Speaker 4: reckon as long as you've been kind at least taught
Speaker 4: me this. You know, if you've been kind about it
Speaker 4: and it's a thing that you truly believe in, I mean,
Speaker 4: it's worth doing. And that's a great analogy for you know,
Speaker 4: I speak with other actors about playing bad guys. Bad
Speaker 4: guys don't usually think that they're doing the wrong thing.
Speaker 4: They think they're doing the right thing. That's how they
Speaker 4: discussed out exactly they keep doing it. If you if
Speaker 4: you two could have any superpower to improve relationships, speaking
Speaker 4: of getting stronger, what would you What would you choose?
Speaker 5: I know what I'd choose.
Speaker 1: So one time, we were kind of struggling a bit,
Speaker 1: really stressed out, you know, bickering, and we'll flopping the
Speaker 1: app and as we said, you know that takes a
Speaker 1: lot of effort, and we just said, that's okay, we
Speaker 1: need to go away for a weekend. We kind of
Speaker 1: left the phones and we went totally off grid. And
Speaker 1: so what I would do is I would disconnect people
Speaker 1: from technology and distraction. Not forever, because that's cruel, and
Speaker 1: that's a lot of good things with technology, but I'd
Speaker 1: be like with my gun, look, dang, no technology is
Speaker 1: going to work for you for like two days or
Speaker 1: a week, and then all of a sudden, people have time,
Speaker 1: the world slows down, and our brain's actually a prime
Speaker 1: for connection. But as soon as we're engaged in the task.
Speaker 1: The part of our brain that it's prime for connection
Speaker 1: goes quiet and gets distracted, but that connection is sitting there,
Speaker 1: it's waiting.
Speaker 4: It's what makes us feel whole, what makes us feel good.
Speaker 1: So that would be my superpower, is that being people's
Speaker 1: ability to connect the technology away for periods.
Speaker 4: It's fit. I just relaxed as you were talking about that.
Speaker 2: Was there any sort of funny moments when you were
Speaker 2: creating the app or writing the book that you thought,
Speaker 2: imagine we put this in there, or imagine if we
Speaker 2: did this, how hilarious would that be?
Speaker 3: Did you have any moments like that.
Speaker 5: As in our experience?
Speaker 6: Yeah, ah, well, we put little bits and pieces in there,
Speaker 6: and I think like from our relationship you mean.
Speaker 2: Or just just just whatever, just whatever someone might want
Speaker 2: have been reading or looking at it.
Speaker 6: I think we did a few of those, because you know,
Speaker 6: we can get pretty feisty with our readers in the
Speaker 6: sense of like you need to look at yourself here
Speaker 6: and stuff like that. So I think we had some
Speaker 6: few harsh things in there, and the editors like, yeah, no, the.
Speaker 1: Love Links actually has a lot of our stories in
Speaker 1: it because we want to really show that we're humans too.
Speaker 5: And it has a lot of client stories in it too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I just love that, yeah.
Speaker 4: Identify clients.
Speaker 1: But when it comes to the book, and like it's
Speaker 1: so varied, it's got every aspect we could think of
Speaker 1: kind of in there, right, But yeah, there's parts of
Speaker 1: Helen and ice relationship.
Speaker 5: I'm sure that aren't in that.
Speaker 6: We did fantasize sometimes putting stuff in there, even from
Speaker 6: our own childhoods, and then we're like, imagine that as
Speaker 6: I actually, no, let's not include that.
Speaker 4: Maybe the next book exactly. What about as therapists and
Speaker 4: you're married couple, did it help you grow your relationship?
Speaker 4: Creating the app, writing the book?
Speaker 6: I think so. I think so, And I think being
Speaker 6: therapists helped, like helped our relationship along. But I don't
Speaker 6: think it's a given. It's like I remember we were
Speaker 6: I think it was the year when we were overseas
Speaker 6: and you proposed. But before the proposal came, we were
Speaker 6: at a conference psychology conference in Vienna and we just
Speaker 6: were not getting along. I don't know what. I don't
Speaker 6: even remember what was the cause, but we were so disconnected.
Speaker 6: And we'll go into these lectures on vulnerability, you know,
Speaker 6: all this stuff, and it was just so mismatched in
Speaker 6: that sense. And I remember thinking to myself, like I'm
Speaker 6: a walking contradiction, Like I need to look inside what
Speaker 6: is actually happening for me right now? That's creating this
Speaker 6: chasm and it's Yeah, So I think being a therapist
Speaker 6: doesn't mean you're automatically going to be amazing in a relationship.
Speaker 6: I think again, it's that willingness to turn it on
Speaker 6: yourself and go. And when we did that, we reconnected.
Speaker 5: And I think you're superposed.
Speaker 1: I think, look, we're grown enormously because of the app
Speaker 1: and the book went back and like we delve so
Speaker 1: much into what we believe in that we have to
Speaker 1: enact it in our own lives. But a bit about
Speaker 1: our story. So I was previously married and have two kids.
Speaker 1: The first twelve months were together. I married young, so
Speaker 1: like I wasn't ready to die, Let's make it blended
Speaker 1: family straight away. I'm like, you know what I'm it's
Speaker 1: a few years single, Like, let's I just want to
Speaker 1: have a romance and get to know someone. So the
Speaker 1: first twelve months we didn't introduce the kids at all.
Speaker 6: Your kids too, No, I just have the two inherited works.
Speaker 5: And the fur baby.
Speaker 1: So like that there was an adjustment period, Like I
Speaker 1: think when when it was it was more simpler, right
Speaker 1: in that first year.
Speaker 6: Absolutely it was fun and exciting and it was just
Speaker 6: the two of us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and part time to a degree because like
Speaker 1: we had the kids. Like it was like helm was
Speaker 1: doing our own thing and we'll catch probably phone and stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but our wall was probably that adjustment period kind of
Speaker 1: getting through through, kind of merging into a and you know,
Speaker 1: if you don't climb over that wall, you're just going
Speaker 1: to be stuck hitting up against it. And a lot
Speaker 1: of couples do that for a long time and then
Speaker 1: it falls apart. So I think we did have to
Speaker 1: dig deep. And that's part of the reason why we
Speaker 1: put some of our own stuff in the book to say,
Speaker 1: you know, it's not just a perfect relationship because we
Speaker 1: found the right and it's because we keep trying to
Speaker 1: turn up to be the right partner.
Speaker 4: That's exactly why we did the podcast. Yeah, we were
Speaker 4: getting projections thrown and asking you guys.
Speaker 7: Have perfect perfect couple. Yeah, it's like, yeah, what would
Speaker 7: you know exactly? Yeah, it's well, actually, here's what we
Speaker 7: went through and here's what we do know and maybe
Speaker 7: you can relate to that. So that's great because it
Speaker 7: makes it so much more relatable.
Speaker 2: And is that in the book as well, your experience
Speaker 2: with the step parenting and the blended families, because we've
Speaker 2: had a lot of couples come in here and that
Speaker 2: is often the number one challenge that they've had where
Speaker 2: they've done blended families, and they've often sought therapy, Thank
Speaker 2: Heavens for it, and it's made a world of difference.
Speaker 3: Is that in your book as well?
Speaker 6: I think, as I agree with you, I think probably
Speaker 6: if you ask me what the most challenging thing in
Speaker 6: our relationship has been, it's probably the blended family. Best
Speaker 6: at mum, but amazing as well, like so much growth
Speaker 6: from it. But I think in our book and our
Speaker 6: we don't specifically talk about blended families, but if you
Speaker 6: apply the strategies and the understanding to it, then you
Speaker 6: can work anything out. So we used the same strategies
Speaker 6: to work through our blended family. So for instance, that
Speaker 6: validation piece and listening and feeding back, as well as
Speaker 6: all the other stuff in the book is essential if
Speaker 6: you're going to navigate the complexities of a blended family.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and we talk about like different coupled domains, so
Speaker 1: like all the different aspects within life, like for example,
Speaker 1: like families, family of borage, and even domestic duties and
Speaker 1: stuff like that. But one thing we really try and
Speaker 1: do with the book, the eight leve Lengths and the
Speaker 1: app is it's meant to be a deep, thoughtful journey
Speaker 1: in the sense we want you to change your relationship dynamics.
Speaker 1: The surface issues are you can get through one bit
Speaker 1: of surf, surface issue or content which might be huge.
Speaker 5: I don't want to undermine that.
Speaker 1: Like it could be like moving or about blended families,
Speaker 1: but it's the dynamics that are either positive or unhelpful.
Speaker 1: And our kind of mission is to help people understand
Speaker 1: what are my dynamics, what do I bring, and what's working,
Speaker 1: what needs to tweak, and what needs to be introduced.
Speaker 1: And once you know that and you have the strategies
Speaker 1: and tools, then you can potentially get over any obstacle.
Speaker 5: And that's what we want.
Speaker 3: To impare the tools to apply to everything.
Speaker 1: And that's what we said about every couple that walks in.
Speaker 1: We don't want you coming here forever. You're always welcome back.
Speaker 1: We say, because we love our clients and taught side,
Speaker 1: but we want you to understand the dynamics, so like,
Speaker 1: how do we get over these problems? Like, well, we'll
Speaker 1: help you get over that problem, but let's look at
Speaker 1: why you're struggling to get over that problem.
Speaker 4: Yeah, are there checks and balances for you guys as
Speaker 4: psychologists and in therapy? Do you do your sessions and
Speaker 4: then do you who's checking on you?
Speaker 6: Yeah? Absolutely, so most psychologists will have their own supervisor
Speaker 6: who they can in with. I know in our practice
Speaker 6: we're trying we try and create a culture that's positive
Speaker 6: and supportive. So we have an open door policy. So
Speaker 6: if psychologists needs some help or check in about their clients,
Speaker 6: or if something happens it's really triggering or something, then
Speaker 6: they're most welcome to kind of reach out.
Speaker 1: And we run a group supervision session every fortnight, so
Speaker 1: that's just a standard time and any psychologists can come
Speaker 1: into that and talk about clients that they're dealing with.
Speaker 1: And yeah, as Helen said, each psychologist has to have
Speaker 1: their own supervisor to maintain registration.
Speaker 4: It's really importantly because it keeps things safe. Yeah.
Speaker 6: Absolutely, it's a lot of load to kind of carry,
Speaker 6: so you need to you need those official ways, but
Speaker 6: also like what are you doing at home? And to
Speaker 6: take care of yourself.
Speaker 1: We're clinical psychologists as well, so we have clients, I
Speaker 1: mean psychologists, not clients. Sorry, sorry staff colleagues. When they
Speaker 1: first start, they actually have to do one hour supervision
Speaker 1: every fortnight for two years.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's awesome.
Speaker 4: It's good, isn't it?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Good? Well, the app is My Love, Your Love. The
Speaker 4: book is the Eight Love Links. And we're going to
Speaker 4: step into the shower now, away from the toilet, away
Speaker 4: from the head, and we're going into the shower for
Speaker 4: a two minute shower. And we'd like you to answer
Speaker 4: these questions which I don't have in.
Speaker 3: Front of me down the bottom down look at that you.
Speaker 4: Just like I wrote it. Can you both answer the question? OK,
Speaker 4: what habit does your partner have that you find adorable?
Speaker 6: Oh?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 6: Mine, for Shan is definitely the way he speaks to
Speaker 6: our dog. He says like, good boy, do it. You
Speaker 6: have to do it.
Speaker 5: I don't know if I can do it. On to man,
Speaker 5: I have to say him a good boy.
Speaker 4: A treat.
Speaker 1: Mind for Helen is it doesn't matter if she's in
Speaker 1: tracksuit pants or completely glammed up. No matter what's going on.
Speaker 1: She can spill food or drink on herself in every
Speaker 1: single occasion.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's surprise. He still looks hard looks. That's what
Speaker 5: I'm like.
Speaker 4: Yes, you have a big stain down your dress, but you.
Speaker 5: Still look great, so it doesn't matter.
Speaker 4: That's good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's that's your territory a little bit at
Speaker 2: the moment, isn't it.
Speaker 3: Honey.
Speaker 4: You're like, yeah, I got the white jeans on today.
Speaker 6: Guarantee days white jeans.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's got to be black all the time.
Speaker 2: What what is it about your relationship that makes you
Speaker 2: feel most grateful.
Speaker 1: I've got a best friend, you know, and totally in
Speaker 1: love with her, and I just feel like we are
Speaker 1: partners through this journey of life. And I think we've
Speaker 1: got really kind of common values.
Speaker 4: And is Helen okay with that? What do you mean
Speaker 4: which part that you have this best friend, Well, Helen.
Speaker 5: Gets to hang out with for some of the time.
Speaker 4: I totally cut you off, but I had to go there.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Look, I'm just I'm grateful I've got this amazing partner
Speaker 1: to share life's adventures with, you know, and we both
Speaker 1: had the same kind of ideas and worldview and stuff
Speaker 1: like that or not not all the time. But I
Speaker 1: mean we both know that life is in the moments,
Speaker 1: and you know, we can find that anywhere as long
Speaker 1: as we put some effort into it.
Speaker 6: I don't think I can top that one. But similarly,
Speaker 6: I think I just love having someone that's kind of
Speaker 6: fun and interesting to do life with. Its the best.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and he says, good boy, boy, I don't care.
Speaker 4: I've got one too. I've been rubbing his tommy this morning.
Speaker 4: Good boy, don't escape. Good for what do you miss
Speaker 4: when you're not together?
Speaker 6: I think I miss his cuddles, Yeah, he's yeah, I
Speaker 6: just yeah.
Speaker 4: I think it's a comfort zone. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: It's like it's awesome to go out and be autonomous
Speaker 1: an individual, and then it's like you're coming home.
Speaker 4: It's just a nice comfort zone. Lovely.
Speaker 3: Last question, one word to describe each other.
Speaker 6: I would say generous. And I say that not like financially, yes,
Speaker 6: but I think he's just super generous from his heart.
Speaker 6: So you know, like I was pouring with rain yesterday
Speaker 6: and I was at the gym and he takets me saying,
Speaker 6: do you want me to come pick you and like, the
Speaker 6: gym is five minutes walk away from our house and
Speaker 6: he's like, it's raining hard, would you like me to
Speaker 6: come pick you up? And he's always offering to take
Speaker 6: me places, which is not reciprocated from.
Speaker 3: You can get.
Speaker 6: So Yeah, he's just generous with his love, with his time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, with these thoughts, I'm going to say, it's mexy,
Speaker 1: smart and sexy.
Speaker 3: Look at that you never had before, mexy.
Speaker 5: MESI I like that.
Speaker 3: That's awesome.
Speaker 4: Sean and Helen, thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 4: So I said my love. Your Love is the app
Speaker 4: download it now and the book the eight Love Links.
Speaker 6: Thank you so much, so much fun.
Speaker 5: It's been a lot of fun.
Speaker 4: I'm really excited to download the app.
Speaker 2: I'm never looked into relationship apps before. I'm gathered there's
Speaker 2: probably some others out there, I'm sure, but yeah, it's
Speaker 2: sort of like having a having a therapist in your pocket,
Speaker 2: Isn't it all?
Speaker 5: It is?
Speaker 4: And they did mention the fact that therapy couple's therapy
Speaker 4: can be expensive, absolutely and also allocating time getting everyone
Speaker 4: on the same page with schedules. Everyone's so busy to
Speaker 4: have it as an app and just I mean the
Speaker 4: expense on that it would be minimal, minimals.
Speaker 2: And if you're in a place where you know, you're
Speaker 2: out in the country town or wherever you are that
Speaker 2: you're not in the big city where there's therapists it's
Speaker 2: a great around, then you've also got an app that, yeah,
Speaker 2: you can do it at any time of the day.
Speaker 4: And Stufti with the book. Yeah, the eight love Links
Speaker 4: really good, really good.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, they've broken it down, which I like that. I
Speaker 2: like it when there's they break it down into stories,
Speaker 2: into links, into doable chunks.
Speaker 3: I think that that's really important.
Speaker 4: We love doable, We love the doable just a little
Speaker 4: by little, because you can cover a lot, a lot
Speaker 4: you know, you don't even know you got where you got.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 2: Well, we hope you enjoyed our chat today and join
Speaker 2: us next time.
Speaker 4: See ya,