WEBVTT - Why Trump “needs” Greenland 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:02.960 You're expect to take an action against Greenland. 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:04.360 Well, I don't want to talk about Greenland. 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:08.280 Let's talk about Venezuela, Russia in Ukraine. 0:00:08.760 --> 0:00:12.640 Right after the dramatic capture of Venezuela's president by US forces, 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:16.080 Donald Trump claimed he didn't want to talk about Greenland, 0:00:16.840 --> 0:00:18.840 but he just couldn't help himself. 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:23.200 I will say this about Greenland. We need Greenland from 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:27.520 a national security to the situation. It's so strategic. Right 0:00:27.560 --> 0:00:31.920 now Greenland is covered with Russian and Chinese ships. 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:32.440 All over the place. 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:36.320 We need Greenland from the standpoint of nationals. 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:38.960 It isn't the first time Trump has shown an interest 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:42.519 in the island. He's talked about buying Greenland for years, 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:46.960 describing it as a large real estate deal. But now 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:50.920 in no uncertain terms, Greenland's Prime minister has pushed. 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:53.720 Back Cornland big. I so will say Greenland does not 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:56.320 want to be owned by the USA. Greenland does not 0:00:56.400 --> 0:00:59.160 want to be governed by the USA. Greenland will not 0:00:59.240 --> 0:00:59.960 be part of that. 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:03.960 Trump has ordered the military to draw up an invasion 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:07.640 plan for the island. Meanwhile, high level talks between the 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:11.600 foreign ministers of Greenland, Denmark and the White House has 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:16.680 ended in stalemate. Sweden, France, and Norway have begun sending 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:21.240 armed forces to Greenland at Denmark's request, and Donald Trump 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:22.320 is doubling down. 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:25.160 We are going to do something on Greenland, whether they 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:27.120 like it or not, and we're not going to have 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:28.880 Russia or China as a neighbor. 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:36.120 I'm Nicole Johnston, and you're listening to seven AM Today. 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:40.919 Defense editor at The Economist Shashank Joshi on why Trump 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:44.720 wants Greenland and how his plan could change the world. 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:58.040 It's Friday, January sixteenth, Shoshank. When Trump says we need 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:01.080 Greenland for national security, what does that mean? 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:05.080 Well, I think it means many things. Some Republicans have 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:08.480 argued that it means Russia in China pose a threat 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:11.040 to the Arctic, and Greenland is a vital outpost for 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:14.680 monitoring those threats, and that Denmark is incapable of protecting 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:18.040 the island against those threats. I'm a little bit skeptical 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:21.640 of that explanation, in part because Donald Trump is also 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:25.960 at the same time negotiating with the Russians on business 0:02:26.000 --> 0:02:28.480 deals for drilling in the Arctic as part of his 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:31.040 Ukraine diplomacy, which leads me to wonder is it really 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:34.600 about security. I think it is much more about two 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:36.919 other things. One of them is the resources that are 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:40.239 under Greenland's earth, which are some of the rare earth 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:43.040 materials that the modern economy is in great need of. 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:45.840 I think it has something like forty million tons of 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:50.079 rare earth in what's called oxide form. So that's one 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:52.519 of the biggest reserves in the Earth, possibly second biggest, 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:55.880 aft to China. And of course, as your listeners will know, 0:02:56.000 --> 0:02:59.640 China has a great dominance over the global supply of 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:02.880 those rules and materials. So that's part of the answer. 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:04.760 But I think part of the answer is also that 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:08.040 if you go back to Donald Trump's inaugural address about 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:11.480 a year ago, this time of year ago, he cited 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:16.000 President William McKinley, and he cited the concept of manifest destiny. 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:19.120 And we will pursue our manifest destiny into the stars, 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:20.919 launching American astronauts. 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:25.360 And I think he would simply like the administration to 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:28.399 be the first one in many, many years, in a century. 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:32.240 Perhaps that has resulted in the growth of American soil, 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:35.000 the expansion of America on a map. 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:40.120 One that increases our wealth, expands our territory, builds our cities, 0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:42.800 raises our expectations. 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:44.560 And I think that that sense of control, that sense 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:48.080 of growth, animates him. Indeed, just as we're talking, he 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:51.200 has posted a social media image presenting himself as the 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:53.840 acting President of Venezuela. I think all of that appeals 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:54.200 to him. 0:03:54.520 --> 0:03:57.840 Can you lay out for a Shishenk how Greenland's government 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:02.920 currently works and how it connection to Denmark functions well. 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:08.240 Greenland effectively has its foreign policy and many of those 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:14.480 other big picture issues like communications run from Copenhagen from Denmark, 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:18.680 which is sort of the parent government. It's part of 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:21.400 the Kingdom of Denmark. It is not a kind of colony. 0:04:21.760 --> 0:04:24.960 It's not, for example, the equivalent of Micronesia to the 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:28.800 United States, a state of free association, although it is 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:33.440 self governing domestically for many domestic issues. It has a democracy, 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:36.359 It has a local government with elections taking place with 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:39.880 a vibrant democratic process. But it is not, as I 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:42.400 think Donald Trump put it, a sort of protectorate or 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:45.400 colony that is there simply by virtue of Denmark having 0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:48.600 landed a canoe on the island dis Donald Trump put it. 0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:52.360 Trump is insisting that Chinese and Russian ships are swarming 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:56.400 around Greenland? Are they and what is their presence there? 0:04:56.880 --> 0:04:59.960 No, they're not. But I took Trump to be speaking 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:04.640 figuratively talking about heightened Russian and Chinese activity in the region. 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:07.880 If that's what he meant, then that's fair enough. There 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:11.640 is heightened Russian and Chinese activity. Russian submarines have been 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:15.040 more active, you know, Russian ice breakers have been more active. 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:17.599 And of course the melting sea ice in the Arctic 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:20.400 region means that there are new sea routes opening up 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:23.360 that allow the Chinese to go from the North rather 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:27.520 than all the way down through the Atlantic through the Pacific, 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:29.599 and so that also is going to increase the level 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:33.240 of Chinese commercial and dual use activity in the region. 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:36.600 In fact, there's the story from a few years ago 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:40.719 in the first Trump administration where James Massis, and you 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:44.720 may remember him as Trump's first Secretary of Defense, he 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:48.240 complained to the Danes because the Chinese, a Chinese company 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:51.599 was building three airports on Greenland, and the Americans saw 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:55.000 this as a strategic project, as a potential threat, and 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:59.360 that was eventually mixed after coordination between Denmark and America. 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:01.600 So Trump, to me, not that there's kind of an 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:05.400 armada of ships, you know, patrolling up and down Greenland's coastline, 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:10.920 but that there is additional civilian, industrial, scientific, military, intelligence, 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:15.320 Russian and Chinese interest in activity throughout the Arctic, including 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:18.000 in the waters around Denmark. And I think if we 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:20.240 don't exaggerate that point, it's fair enough. 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:25.159 We know that Trump's interest in Greenland isn't you. He's 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:27.800 been talking about it for years. But how has his 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:31.479 position or his game plan on it changed, especially in 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:32.359 the second term. 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:37.719 I think very simply, his desire to acquire Greenland has intensified, 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:42.080 and his willingness to talk about military options or to 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:45.960 leave them prominently on the table has grown. What we 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:50.320 saw is that whereas the pursuit of Greenland was slightly 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:54.280 haphazard and superficial in the first term, it's been much 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:57.480 more concerted and serious in the second. And I think 0:06:57.520 --> 0:07:00.640 a bit of evidence to that is a Tora Greenland 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:05.040 by jd Vance, the Vice President back in March. Vice 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:08.400 President JD Vance and second Lady Ushavance in Greenland. Today 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:11.200 it comes as President Trump says, the US needs the 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:14.760 island for nationals. You need to ensure that America is 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:17.440 leading in the Arctic, because we know that if America doesn't, 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:21.239 other nations will fill the gap where we fall behind, 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:25.320 and other efforts, some of them identified by Denmark's intelligence services, 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:31.080 by US intelligence agencies, to cultivate networks of influence in Greenland, 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:34.600 including amongst the country's independence movement. There is clearly an 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:38.400 effort to try to push the independence movement against Copenhagen, 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:43.880 against Denmark. In addition to that, we've also seen more 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:47.960 serious proposals developed in the White House about how exactly 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:52.240 America could pull away Greenland, including the suggestion that they 0:07:52.240 --> 0:07:56.600 could pay a large lump sum payment to the residents 0:07:56.640 --> 0:07:59.800 of Greenland to persuade them to join the United States. 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:03.560 Perhaps they say something called a compact of free association, 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:06.320 which is a type of arrangement America has with other 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:10.160 very small nations around the world in which America has 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:13.880 basically untrammeled and free access in return for certain privileges 0:08:14.040 --> 0:08:16.920 for those countries. Now, Greenland is a horrified by this. 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:19.200 They don't really seem very tempted by money or by 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:23.040 these blandishments, but the fact that the administration is working 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:26.080 up these options in a very serious way is quite distinctive. 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:27.720 It's quite different from Trump. 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:34.160 One coming up, how europe is reacting and what it 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:45.199 means for NATO. Shashank how A Danish and more broadly, 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:49.400 European leaders responding to this latest move by Trump. 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:54.480 Alarm, horror, deep concern. You see this in the fact 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:58.800 that Denmark's approach was initially to say, we're not going 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:01.120 to take a public fight with the US on this. 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:03.319 We're going to have quiet diplomacy. We're going to talk 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:05.960 to them behind the scenes, behind closed doors. And when 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:08.800 other European governments asked the Danes, hey, what would you 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:12.400 like us to do, Denmark said, actually nothing, Just stay quiet, 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:14.600 stay calmed. You know, we're going to deliver this message 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:17.240 in private. Just leave it to us. This time everything 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:20.680 has changed. The messaging is public. We have the Danish 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:23.199 Prime minister saying an attack on Greenland would be the 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:23.880 end of NATO. 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:27.079 Well, if the US chooses to attack another NATO country, 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:28.280 then everything stops. 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:32.880 We have the Swedish Prime minister expressing grave concern. Sweden, 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:36.720 the Nordic countries, the Baltic States, and several large countries 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:40.440 in Europe are standing together in support of our Danish friends. 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:43.960 We have states that normally are very cautious about criticizing 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:47.280 in the United States, like Kastamer's government here in the UK, 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:50.079 and even they have signed up to joint statements with 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:53.680 other countries rebuking the Americans, saying that Greenland is a 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:57.199 bilateral matter between Denmark and Greenland. The future of Greenland 0:09:57.800 --> 0:10:01.840 is for Greenland, and the Kingdom of Denmark for Greenland 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:05.040 in the future of demok only. And so I think 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:08.880 you see a much more public strategy of rebuke and pushback, 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:11.839 with some question swirling around as to well, should we 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:15.200 have more military exercises around Greenland? Should we put troops 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:18.880 on Greenland to try to deter an American annexation? But 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:22.040 I think the great kind of paradox is that you 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:26.680 have this European panic over American predatory behavior over Greenland, 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:30.240 but at the same time Europeans need the United States 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:33.880 to provide security guarantees for any ceasefire in Ukraine, and 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:36.320 we saw that with the presence of Jared Kushner, the 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:40.680 President's son in law, and Steve Whitcoff's envoy for Ukraine 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:44.640 in Paris just a week ago. And Europeans have to 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:46.800 walk that tightrope in a very careful way. 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:50.080 As you said, the Danish Prime Minister has threatened an 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:54.000 end to NATO if Trump pursues this. Trump's repeatedly been 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:57.200 dismissive about NATO. Could we be about to see the 0:10:57.320 --> 0:10:57.719 end of it? 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:01.439 Not yet, I think we're still some from that scenario. 0:11:01.760 --> 0:11:03.920 But I do believe that if he decides to try 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:09.360 to absorb Greenland without the permission of anyone else, for example, 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:13.360 by annexing it legally, even without a shot being fired, 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:17.280 even without a so called invasion of Greenland, I think 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:19.720 that that would be the end of NATO. Because NATO 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:24.480 is an alliance that relies on political cohesion, it relies 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:28.120 on trust, and America is the backbone of the alliance. 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:31.079 You know, an American four star general is the supreme 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:33.800 Allied command of Europe, the sacure, who sits in the 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:37.280 NATO military headquarters its shape near Brussels, and leads the 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:40.800 alliance and writes up its war plans. American military equipment 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:43.720 is the backbone of the alliance, specifically air power that 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:46.120 would be used to defeat Russia. And so if there 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:48.800 is no longer any trust that America would come to 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:51.520 the aid of Europe, because in fact, it is just 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:55.000 cannibalized part of Europe to the West. I think that 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:57.640 that would spell the end of NATO as a functional 0:11:57.679 --> 0:12:01.720 defensive alliance against Russia. You would see effectively a moment 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:05.400 of profound crisis in Europe that would result in defense 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:09.679 spending climbing up to near double digit rates and a 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:10.960 sense of wartime panic. 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:14.200 So what would that scenario I mean for Russia and China. 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:17.400 Well, I think on the one hand, Russia in China 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:21.120 will be delighted by a world in which they feel 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:25.959 they can take territory against all semblance of international law 0:12:27.000 --> 0:12:31.120 on the basis of force. That world is good for China, 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:34.360 it's good for Russia, and so too is a world 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:37.319 in which the Western Alliance is unable to mount a 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:41.480 unified response to their aggression, is unable to agree on sanctions, 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:44.400 is unable to agree on joint exercises, is unable to 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:46.880 come to the defense of a country like Ukraine or 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:50.000 of Taiwan in the event that that was attacked. Having 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:54.000 said that, China views Taiwan in quite different terms, China 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:56.360 used Taiwan, as your listeners will know, as part of 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:59.080 Chinese territory, and whether you agree with that or disagree 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:01.640 with That is not the point. The point is legally 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:05.240 they don't feel that they need any legal backing to 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:08.600 be able to seize Taiwan by force. And I don't 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:11.559 know if this will drastically change their options. But if 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:13.880 I was see Jinping and I were looking at this 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:19.040 Trump administration, I would say this, remaining three years of 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:21.920 the Trump administration, I am not going to find a 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:25.280 president who is likely to be more amenable to cutting 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:28.319 a deal with me over the conquest of Taiwan if 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:31.160 I seize Taiwan and then promise, for example, the free 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:34.280 flow of semiconductors from the island to America, just as 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:36.520 you know he wants the free flow of oil from Venezuela. 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:40.160 He doesn't care about the democratic status of Taiwan. He 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:43.200 just cares about the economic benefit to the United States. 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:45.559 And I think that that would shape my judgment is 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:48.559 China in a way that would favor invasion or conquest 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:51.040 or annexation of Taiwan, and that I believe is a 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:51.920 very dangerous thing. 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:55.440 What do you think Trump is going to actually do 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:57.880 in Greenland? What could happen next? 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:02.479 I find it very hard to predict Trump's future actions, 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:06.520 but I think that there is a growing risk, although 0:14:06.559 --> 0:14:10.800 still below fifty percent, so still mercifully unlikely, that he 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:14.640 simply declares large parts of Greenland to be sovereign base 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:17.680 areas to be in his control, to be part of 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:20.200 the United States. He wouldn't have to invade, he wouldn't 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:22.880 have to fire shots. He would simply say that Petufic 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:27.120 Space Force Base in Greenland is henceforth sovereign US territory. 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:29.400 He could also, and I fear that this is also 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:33.440 something he's been willing to do, impose heavy tariffs against Denmark, 0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:37.160 against the EU. He could put sanctions on Danish officials 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:42.480 until they negotiate with America to allow Greenland to succeed 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:47.120 and sell it to the United States. But he believes 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:50.000 everything can be bought, and I think that he will 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:52.200 first go down the route of attempting to buy it, 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:55.120 and only when that route is completely closed will he 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:56.560 entertain more extreme options. 0:14:56.600 --> 0:15:01.560 In my opinion, thank you so much for your time, 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:17.720 Thank you very much for having me. Also in the news, 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:22.040 Anthony Alberizi says he's stunned by Susan Lee's claims that 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:26.760 Labour's hate crime and gun reforms are unsalvageable. The Coalition 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:30.440 has spent weeks criticizing the Prime Minister for not immediately 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:34.480 recalling Parliament to deal with legislation in the aftermath of 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:37.840 the Bondai attacks. Now, with Parliament due to razume on 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:41.640 Monday to debate new laws, the Coalition has signaled they 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:45.200 won't support them and says the legislation has been rushed 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:49.120 and the Adelaide Festival has issued an unreserved apology to 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:54.800 Palestinian Australian author doctor Runda Abdulphatar after canceling her invitation 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:59.040 from Adelaide Writer's Week. The decision sparked a widespread boycott 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:03.400 of writers, resignation of the program director, a mass resignation 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:06.480 of the board, and the cancelation of the festival. Now, 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:09.960 the Adelaide Festival has released a statement saying they retract 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:13.240 the claim that it would have been culturally insensitive for 0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:18.320 Abdulphata to participate, that artistic freedom is a powerful human right, 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:21.520 that the board fell short, and that she's invited to 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:25.280 speak at next year's event. I'm Nicole Johnston. This is 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:28.000 seven am. We'll be back tomorrow.