Speaker 1: I think the person who killed her will be worried
Speaker 1: about this podcast and the new attention, media attention and
Speaker 1: local attention back on it. I think given that they
Speaker 1: would have experienced this anxiety which we see through the haste,
Speaker 1: I think it will reignite that anxiety. I think that
Speaker 1: once this comes out, this podcast comes out, and there's
Speaker 1: media coverage, I think the person will become worried again.
Speaker 1: They'll probably be a bit cocky because they've got away
Speaker 1: with it for a long time, but in the back
Speaker 1: of mind they'll be going, oh, people could still talk,
Speaker 1: because this is not the kind of offender would keep
Speaker 1: his mouth shut. I think he's spoken in some way
Speaker 1: about it. May not have said I killed her, but
Speaker 1: he may have said things about the crime, things about
Speaker 1: the car, things about the handbag and the shoes that
Speaker 1: could just stand out to someone who heard it. And
Speaker 1: it's those people that the investigation needs to come forward.
Speaker 2: That's Grizzilling's worth. An FBI trained criminal profiler who investigated
Speaker 2: Rochelle's murder in two thousand and three, I'm Ashley Hanson.
Speaker 2: This is episode six of Dear Rochelle, a podcast by
Speaker 2: True Crime Australia.
Speaker 1: I think this offender would have a domestic bolence history,
Speaker 1: maybe not then, and with the domestic ans, it would
Speaker 1: be that he did impulsive, reactive type of violence. With
Speaker 1: that kind of violence, you'd also see coursive control behaviors
Speaker 1: as well, monitoring of the partner, keeping control without not
Speaker 1: handling situations, not experiencing a strong sense of control over
Speaker 1: the person so constantly trying to get control, and those
Speaker 1: kind of people often can't hold down a job either
Speaker 1: because they're reactive. I think this person would have a
Speaker 1: more unstable relationship history, unstable employment history simply because of
Speaker 1: his personality traits.
Speaker 2: Do you think the person responsible had a history of
Speaker 2: sexual violence?
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think he would have forced himself onto other women,
Speaker 1: and I don't think this was the first time he's
Speaker 1: ever done that. What scenes to have happened is that
Speaker 1: he and Rochelle were interacting with one another, probably for
Speaker 1: at least an hour on maybe two hours or so,
Speaker 1: and at some point defender has decided, well, you know,
Speaker 1: I want sex, and iss forced to do it. He
Speaker 1: may have tried to convince her and maybe something's happened consensually,
Speaker 1: perhaps or maybe the entire event was forceful.
Speaker 2: We don't know at this point, so potentially a highly
Speaker 2: compulsive sex offender.
Speaker 1: Yes, someone who's going to act out and feel some
Speaker 1: kind of entitlement also over women, and probably is quite misogynistic.
Speaker 2: I'd expect the man that Chris Sillings wor just profiled
Speaker 2: bears a resemblance to the prime suspect in Rochelle's murder,
Speaker 2: her boss, Kevin Stephen Carrell. Kevin strenuously denies any involvement
Speaker 2: in Rochelle's death. He has willingly participated in three records
Speaker 2: of interview with police, including giving a detailed account of
Speaker 2: his movements on the seventh of June two thousand and one,
Speaker 2: although he did not have any alibi witnesses to back
Speaker 2: him up on Neil inquest was held into Rochelle's death.
Speaker 2: At the end of the inquest in two thousand and eight,
Speaker 2: the coroner made an open finding in relation to Rochelle's
Speaker 2: death and True Crime Australia is not saying he is
Speaker 2: guilty of any crimes, just that there are reasonable grounds
Speaker 2: for suspecting he committed rapes in the past that he
Speaker 2: was charged with, and reasonable grounds to suspect he may
Speaker 2: have been involved in Rochelle's murder. Remember, Kevin changed his
Speaker 2: name from Cornwall to Correll sometime before he arrived at
Speaker 2: Camden Holden. You're about to meet two brave women who
Speaker 2: survived being attacked at knife point in the nineteen eighties.
Speaker 2: They identified Kevin Cornwall as their attacker that he was
Speaker 2: later acquitted in both cases. When not using the women's
Speaker 2: real names, just a heads up, You're about to hear
Speaker 2: survivor accounts of sexual violence that some listener as may
Speaker 2: find upsetting. Pay attention to the alibi Kevin gives police
Speaker 2: when questioned over each of the attacks. Jane Ashley, there
Speaker 2: are you going?
Speaker 3: Oh nice?
Speaker 4: I just said I'm looking at your picture up the
Speaker 4: game to make sure that I got you.
Speaker 2: So, Jane, take me back to November nineteen eighty. You're
Speaker 2: a mom of two young boys. What was your life like?
Speaker 2: What were you up to?
Speaker 4: My life was good and I had a four year
Speaker 4: old and a six year old and had a lovely
Speaker 4: boyfriend and.
Speaker 5: Life was good.
Speaker 2: And where were you living?
Speaker 4: I was living in punch Bowl.
Speaker 2: I understand you put an ad in the paper.
Speaker 4: Yes, we put an ad in the paper. We had
Speaker 4: my sister living there beforehand, and she moved out so
Speaker 4: we wanted somebody else to rent to help us get
Speaker 4: the rent up. So we put an ad in the
Speaker 4: paper for someone to rent the room.
Speaker 2: And did you get much of a response from that ad?
Speaker 4: Yes, we got a response from a young man that
Speaker 4: came by it six o'clock night and then came back
Speaker 4: later on.
Speaker 2: Do you remember that man and do you remember him
Speaker 2: first coming to the house and looking at the house?
Speaker 4: Yes, I remember him coming in to have a look
Speaker 4: at the room and the kitchen in the lound room,
Speaker 4: and I remember him coming back.
Speaker 2: When he was looking in the house and talking to you.
Speaker 2: Did you feel uneasy at any stage about his visit?
Speaker 4: No, not at all. He's quite nice.
Speaker 2: Was he interacting with the kids?
Speaker 4: The kids were in bed, both my children in bed
Speaker 4: at that stage.
Speaker 2: Kevin Cornwill admits he did go to Jane's house a
Speaker 2: punch bowl in Western Sydney on the evening of the
Speaker 2: nineteenth of November nineteen eighty to check out that room
Speaker 2: she was advertising to rent. Detectives found Jane's address written
Speaker 2: on a piece of paper in his pocket. Detectives asked
Speaker 2: Kevin if the handwriting on the paper was his, and
Speaker 2: this is what he told them.
Speaker 6: Yes, but how do you know it was made?
Speaker 2: These are Kevin's words, voiced by an actor.
Speaker 6: I drive to Liverpool and stopped at the shopping center.
Speaker 6: I bought tea there and a takeaway food bar and
Speaker 6: took the meal home. I had a conversation with a
Speaker 6: girl there.
Speaker 2: He knows Kevin's mother and his wife at the time
Speaker 2: gave evidence during the trial to support Kevin's alibi. We've
Speaker 2: beat Kevin's former wife's name to protect her identity.
Speaker 4: He returned later that night and I was walking down
Speaker 4: the harse to sh reshow him the loudrym and that he.
Speaker 5: Pulled a knife on me.
Speaker 4: And what happened next, and then he proceeded to tell
Speaker 4: me that if I didn't do what he said, he
Speaker 4: would kill my kids. We both were sleeping in the
Speaker 4: front room, which he knew they were because I told
Speaker 4: him the first time. So I did what he said,
Speaker 4: and he raped.
Speaker 2: Me, Jane says, with a knife to her throat. He
Speaker 2: ordered her into the lounge room and told her to undress.
Speaker 2: Kevin allegedly told her he killed a cop and raped
Speaker 2: a woman before, and he wouldn't hesitate in killing her
Speaker 2: or her children. During the attack, the doorbell rang. It
Speaker 2: was another man interested in the room for rant. That
Speaker 2: witness said, a man he knew as Kevin Cornwall answered
Speaker 2: the door and said, she's not here. She's been called
Speaker 2: away to the country. Her boyfriend has been killed in
Speaker 2: a car smash. The witness also told police he recognized
Speaker 2: Kevin from his local club. What do you remember about
Speaker 2: his demeanor?
Speaker 4: Really just mechanical.
Speaker 5: Just do this, do that?
Speaker 4: Just mechanical. He wasn't there that long, probably half an
Speaker 4: hour or so. Do this, do that? Get in the shower. Well,
Speaker 4: it's like looking in to somebody's eyes and you can
Speaker 4: see their soul. He hasn't got one. He's just there's
Speaker 4: nothing there. It's like he'd just done it so many
Speaker 4: times before and it just to go ahead and rape
Speaker 4: at his pleasure. And after the rape, he told me
Speaker 4: to get into the shower, stand there and not come
Speaker 4: out for half an hour.
Speaker 2: When was the moment that you realized he'd left and
Speaker 2: you'd survived this?
Speaker 4: When I heard the door click. My shower was out
Speaker 4: the back and the door was opening the shower, and
Speaker 4: I heard the front door because it was a long hallway,
Speaker 4: I heard the front door click, and that's when I
Speaker 4: got out and checked on my Chho.
Speaker 5: Children, you must have ruand him there.
Speaker 4: So with the lock on the door, couldn't afford to
Speaker 4: fall apart because I had children. So I just rang
Speaker 4: my sister and said, come and get me. There's something's happened.
Speaker 2: I was going through your mind when this had all unfolded.
Speaker 4: Why just why, why would you do that to a
Speaker 4: mother of two kids? That's why would you threaten two
Speaker 4: children that could never hurt you. He just knew what
Speaker 4: to say, especially when he rang me back up again.
Speaker 4: When he rang me, he said, if you report me,
Speaker 4: I will come back and kill you and your children.
Speaker 4: It was like, had it all been rehearsed before?
Speaker 2: What do you remember about those threats that he said
Speaker 2: to you?
Speaker 4: Just said he. I just knew that he was never
Speaker 4: going to stop by the way he threatened me. So
Speaker 4: I knew I had to do something, and so I
Speaker 4: told the police.
Speaker 2: You called your sister, Yeah, she must have raced over.
Speaker 4: She did, Yeah, she came over. We bundled the kids
Speaker 4: into the car and we went off to the police
Speaker 4: station and I told him my story. And they were
Speaker 4: terrific detectives that took on the case, and they then
Speaker 4: I went to the hospital and my sister took the
Speaker 4: children to her place and stayed with them, and the
Speaker 4: hospital was great. Then I went back to the police
Speaker 4: station and started looking through some mugshots, hundreds and hundreds
Speaker 4: and hundreds of mug shots. Couldn't tell you how many
Speaker 4: were there. And then I found him. Just when I
Speaker 4: was just about to give up and say I can't
Speaker 4: look at any more, I found his face and showed
Speaker 4: the police.
Speaker 2: And what was it about that photo that you recognized
Speaker 2: of your attacker.
Speaker 4: You couldn't forget his face. He had a mile between
Speaker 4: his eyes, and you just could not forget his face anyway,
Speaker 4: because it only happened a couple of hours before then,
Speaker 4: So it was so fresh in my mind. And I'll
Speaker 4: never forget him. I'll never forget him ever, but he'll
Speaker 4: never be a part of my life.
Speaker 2: What stood out to me when I saw archive footage
Speaker 2: of Kevin attending Rochelle's inquest in two thousand and six
Speaker 2: is he did have a distinctive bump or raised growth
Speaker 2: like a mole in the middle of his forehead. However,
Speaker 2: in the most recent photos of Kevin captured through our investigation,
Speaker 2: the growth is no longer visible to see images of
Speaker 2: Kevin head to our website. Dear Rochelle dot com.
Speaker 7: Do I you.
Speaker 2: And when you told the police this is him, this
Speaker 2: is the man who attacked me. What did they say?
Speaker 4: They knew him, they knew exactly what his mo was like.
Speaker 4: And as I told them that he'd come and answered
Speaker 4: an ad in the paper for a room for rent,
Speaker 4: and they said, that's exactactly his mo o. He's done
Speaker 4: it before they knew who he was, and they went
Speaker 4: out after him.
Speaker 2: And you pushed through that fear and you went to
Speaker 2: court and faced him in court after he was charged
Speaker 2: with your rape. It was nineteen eighty two, just over
Speaker 2: a year after the attack, and Kevin Stephen Cornwall was
Speaker 2: on trial for your rape. Can you tell me about
Speaker 2: that trial?
Speaker 4: Not anything I'd wish on anybody, because you have to
Speaker 4: prove that he's done it, and they bring up all
Speaker 4: your past, which I was told before and before I
Speaker 4: went to court, and was still prepared to go to
Speaker 4: stop a monster and.
Speaker 2: Take your time. It's okay.
Speaker 4: Anyway. I tried to get through it. And when the
Speaker 4: court case was over and the jury couldn't come to
Speaker 4: a decision, I just told them that he'd never stop.
Speaker 2: You told me jury that, yep.
Speaker 5: I just.
Speaker 2: To think about you going through that trial and then
Speaker 2: bringing up your past. What were they bringing.
Speaker 4: Up when I was fourteen years old? I was in
Speaker 4: a girl's home, which had nothing to do with this.
Speaker 4: I mean I was twenty three years old now and
Speaker 4: my life was great, and all they did was bring
Speaker 4: up my past and nothing about him, which very unfair.
Speaker 2: You felt like you were on trial.
Speaker 8: Yep.
Speaker 4: Ye, that's what they made you feel like, especially his lawyer.
Speaker 2: There was a man who gave evidence that came to
Speaker 2: the door that night during your attack, and he gave
Speaker 2: evidence and recognized Kevin from the club. So there were
Speaker 2: two people that positively identified him, and yet he still
Speaker 2: got away with it.
Speaker 5: Yes, he certainly did.
Speaker 4: It's very hard to convince a jury to put somebody
Speaker 4: away that's done something so horrendous. But I don't know
Speaker 4: why they didn't.
Speaker 2: Kevin admits to being at the home that night to
Speaker 2: inspect the property, but he denied that he returned and
Speaker 2: said that there was a man of European appearance at
Speaker 2: the property. Could you have been mistaken?
Speaker 5: Never?
Speaker 4: I could not mistake that face ever, And as I said,
Speaker 4: I went through hundreds and hundreds of photos, so many
Speaker 4: that they were all starting to blur into one until
Speaker 4: I was just about to give up, and there he was.
Speaker 4: So there's no way I can mistake that face.
Speaker 2: Did you regret going to court?
Speaker 4: No, never regretted it, Never regretted it all. I was
Speaker 4: hoping that at least if they'd put him away for
Speaker 4: a while, he couldn't hurt anybody else. But as I said,
Speaker 4: he will never stop, ever, ever stop until they put
Speaker 4: him away.
Speaker 2: Is that what drove you to take it all the
Speaker 2: way to court was your fear of him hurting other women?
Speaker 4: Yes, that's exactly why I took it to court because
Speaker 4: I didn't want anybody else to have to go through
Speaker 4: what I went through. And obviously he seeks out people
Speaker 4: with children so that he can have that get threat
Speaker 4: against them, to say I will hurt you and your children,
Speaker 4: and any mother is not going to get their child hurt.
Speaker 4: So but that's what he wants. He wants you to
Speaker 4: do that. He wants you to think, oh, come back,
Speaker 4: but don't let him get it over here.
Speaker 2: How old are you now and do you ever think
Speaker 2: back to that night that you were attacked.
Speaker 4: I'm sixty seven years old, and I don't give him
Speaker 4: any thought because he's not going to take over my life.
Speaker 4: I just forget him because he's not worth anything. He's
Speaker 4: just a speck of nothing.
Speaker 2: He now goes by the name of Kevin Stephen Carrell.
Speaker 2: Have you ever heard of that name before?
Speaker 4: No? No, never heard of it.
Speaker 2: His name was made public in and around after Rochelle's
Speaker 2: death because he was named as a suspect in her
Speaker 2: inquest in two thousand and six. Of course, you wouldn't
Speaker 2: have known and put two and two together because you
Speaker 2: knew him as Kevin Cornwall.
Speaker 4: Yep, Kevin Stephen Cornwall.
Speaker 2: What was your reaction when I told you that he
Speaker 2: changed his name.
Speaker 4: You can run away, but you can't hide. I don't
Speaker 4: know what to say. He doesn't scare me at all anymore,
Speaker 4: not one bit.
Speaker 2: Kevin maintains his innocence and was acquitted by a jury
Speaker 2: and his alibi. He stopped at a shopping center in Liverpool,
Speaker 2: and he also went to a takeaway food shop where
Speaker 2: he picked up dinner. Jane isn't the only woman to
Speaker 2: accuse Kevin Stephen Cornwall of a sexually motivated attack. There
Speaker 2: are four women we know about, and he's going to
Speaker 2: hear from other alleged victims, but it's important to stress.
Speaker 2: Kevin pleaded not guilty to all charges, and he was
Speaker 2: later acquitted by four separate juries. Three years after Jane
Speaker 2: was raped, police were hunting the perpetrator of an alarmingly
Speaker 2: similar crime, this time in the inner Sydney suburb of
Speaker 2: Darlinghurst in nineteen eighty three. Here's the ad that was
Speaker 2: placed in the classified section of the Daily Telegraph that year.
Speaker 5: Stunning blonde Gold Coast model available for fashion and figure
Speaker 5: photography phone this number.
Speaker 2: Three has lad. I've just flown in to meet that model.
Speaker 2: We'll call her Nicole. She's accompanied by her giant German
Speaker 2: shepherd to pick me up from the airport.
Speaker 5: Alrighty, I'm as nervous as said.
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's okay, Yeah, come on, puppy.
Speaker 2: Two weeks before the attack, a man who called himself
Speaker 2: Greg Hawkins responded to Nicole's ad and visited her Darlinghurst
Speaker 2: unit to discuss a photo shoot. He claimed he was
Speaker 2: a photographer wanting to book her for a semi nude shoot.
Speaker 2: During the visit, Nicole says he asked her to show
Speaker 2: him her body. She refused, demanding he provide more information
Speaker 2: and identification, but he could only produce a business card
Speaker 2: with the name Greek Hawkins printed on it. Nicole says
Speaker 2: he used his finger to cover the bottom of the
Speaker 2: business card. On that occasion, he left without incident. Two
Speaker 2: weeks later, she answered the door to a monster. It's
Speaker 2: been forty years, but Nicole's memory of that day she
Speaker 2: was attacked while her eleven month old baby boy slept
Speaker 2: in his cot is vivid.
Speaker 7: We were going to be going downtown and I was
Speaker 7: going to buy a high chair because I had some
Speaker 7: money that I could go buy his high chair, and
Speaker 7: that's why he was asleep, and I was all dressed
Speaker 7: and ready, and I was just waiting for him to
Speaker 7: wake up and then we're going to go downtown. So
Speaker 7: when I when a knock at the door, I don't
Speaker 7: remember that I was expecting anyone, because my intention was
Speaker 7: we were going to be going downtown and get the
Speaker 7: high chair. So the knock at the door, I opened
Speaker 7: it and it was ban instant melaclava. The knife was
Speaker 7: held up here. He pushed me back into it. There
Speaker 7: were a couple of steps up into the unit, and
Speaker 7: he just pushed me like into the unit and then
Speaker 7: the knife was at my throat. He had the knife
Speaker 7: up and down my throat like instantly, and I remember thinking,
Speaker 7: holy ship, I'm going to die. This is Sydney, That's
Speaker 7: what I thought I was gonna I was gonna die.
Speaker 7: I remember him mumbling something about what money for drugs?
Speaker 7: Money for drugs. We you know, like we were smoking pot.
Speaker 7: And I remember going into the kitchen and getting the mulbi,
Speaker 7: but it was like hardly anything there and I don't
Speaker 7: even think he took it. I went to my bag
Speaker 7: that was hanging over the chair and I got my
Speaker 7: purse out. I don't remember the you know, the order,
Speaker 7: but he took that money.
Speaker 2: And that was the money for the high chair.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, it was seventy dollars. That would have been
Speaker 5: a lot of money back then. Yes it was. Yeah,
Speaker 5: it was a lot of money.
Speaker 7: And I had to but I had secretly saved that money,
Speaker 7: and I remember had I had it was hidden in
Speaker 7: the in my cupboard in the bedroom.
Speaker 5: Sorry, can we.
Speaker 2: Just we can stop, We can pause for sure, take
Speaker 2: your time.
Speaker 5: No, I gotta just like get it all out. And then.
Speaker 7: Yeah, so he was like saying, yeah, money for drugs.
Speaker 7: Wanted drugs, and yeah, like I said, I went to
Speaker 7: the marlbole. I don't remember whether he did that, he
Speaker 7: had the money, and then it was I'm not real
Speaker 7: clear on how quickly it happened, but he told me
Speaker 7: to get into the bedroom and get bit my clothes off.
Speaker 7: I can't remember how he said it, but the next
Speaker 7: sequence from when he was standing there saying all that
Speaker 7: and the knife was going up and down my throat,
Speaker 7: I was. I went into the bedroom and like obviously
Speaker 7: he followed, and I've just always undressed from the bottom down,
Speaker 7: never the top down. And I remember I had like,
Speaker 7: I liked this, I guess three quid of pants on
Speaker 7: you know all back then they had zips yeah, around
Speaker 7: the bottom of the leg yeah, on the side that yeah,
Speaker 7: yeah yeah. And went in there and I was like
Speaker 7: trying to stall, and so I remember taking my pants
Speaker 7: off first.
Speaker 9: Fuck.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I sort of unzipped them and I took my
Speaker 7: pants off, and then I remember saying, what are you
Speaker 7: doing back here?
Speaker 5: That was a big mistake because.
Speaker 7: It was like his eyes, yeah, his eyes, and maybe
Speaker 7: his nose was cut out as well, or I just
Speaker 7: remember his nose.
Speaker 5: I remember his eyes, and I remember his nose.
Speaker 7: I could just see from that part it was the
Speaker 7: person that I knew as Greg Hawkin's. It was like
Speaker 7: instant saying, what are you doing back here? Like that
Speaker 7: was stupid of me? Like why did I say that?
Speaker 7: He just like he stopped instant and he just sort
Speaker 7: of like looked at me, and I just fuck, I realized,
Speaker 7: Oh God, what did what did you say that for?
Speaker 7: And I thought, oh shit, here it comes. It's it's
Speaker 7: gonna be bad, Like it's gonna be worse now. But yeah,
Speaker 7: he was, Yeah, he was definitely taken aback that I
Speaker 7: recognized him. I can't remember what was said. But then
Speaker 7: like from I got myself around to the side of
Speaker 7: the bed and all the ceramic bunnies sort of like
Speaker 7: on the ledge like this, and as I was sort
Speaker 7: of like trying to pretend to like start to get
Speaker 7: everything off, I don't know, I just went to the
Speaker 7: window ledge and just in one movement, I just sort
Speaker 7: of like I had the window in one hand and
Speaker 7: I grabbed the biggest bunny in the other hand, and
Speaker 7: I remember opening it and then just throwing it down
Speaker 7: and then he he just came straight at me, and
Speaker 7: it was just and with his fist, yeah, closed hard fist,
Speaker 7: and I just went down.
Speaker 5: It was like.
Speaker 7: And I just went smacked down on the bed. And
Speaker 7: I think he thought that because that happened at the window,
Speaker 7: because it was the main like a main road, he
Speaker 7: would have thought, Oh, someone's going to see that and
Speaker 7: they're going to come up, and that's why he took
Speaker 7: off't know, but I'm thankful that I didn't get raped
Speaker 7: straight as soon as I sort of like went down
Speaker 7: on the bed, because I think that's what he was thinking.
Speaker 5: He told me to eat, like he must have got me.
Speaker 7: I can't remember the sequence of how I physically got
Speaker 7: from the bed and then straight into the bathroom and
Speaker 7: I had to get under the shower and stay there.
Speaker 7: And I remember standing there, I still had because back
Speaker 7: then to your socks with your shoes. Yeah, anyway, so
Speaker 7: obviously I kicked off my shoes at some point, and
Speaker 7: I remember standing in the shower with my socks on.
Speaker 5: So I remember that feeling of.
Speaker 7: Not bare feet in the shower and had my socks
Speaker 7: on and my nickers and my top and.
Speaker 5: My face was just like wow, and I was just
Speaker 5: in a.
Speaker 7: Total days of what was happening, and just like like stunned,
Speaker 7: and and then I stood under the shower for I don't,
Speaker 7: I don't, I don't know how long, and eventually I
Speaker 7: got out of the shower because I didn't know whether
Speaker 7: he was still in the unit or not. And I
Speaker 7: got out of the shower. I would yeah, I vaguely
Speaker 7: remember going into Little Ones at Dream. I went to
Speaker 7: the phone and I rang Triple zero and I remember
Speaker 7: saying this stupid thing, I didn't get a squad car here,
Speaker 7: like who says that? So after I don't know how
Speaker 7: long I was on the phone the Triple I, but
Speaker 7: eventually I do remember when, yeah, when there was like
Speaker 7: the knock at the door and I was saying it
Speaker 7: was the police.
Speaker 5: I remember sitting there.
Speaker 7: I remember sitting on the floor down there and like
Speaker 7: huddled up, and I remember crying and crying and crying,
Speaker 7: and I said I had because I wasn't game to
Speaker 7: open the door after what had happened. And I remember saying,
Speaker 7: how do I know it's you? And they kept on saying, well,
Speaker 7: we're the police, And I remember asking, can you put
Speaker 7: your badge under the door, But because it was like
Speaker 7: a thick fireproof door, and there was carpet. They said
Speaker 7: it wouldn't fit under the door, but I remember it
Speaker 7: would have been a good easy, like ten minutes before
Speaker 7: I was game enough to actually then open the door.
Speaker 7: And there were two cops there too, uniform.
Speaker 2: How terrified, just the whole yeah scene.
Speaker 5: How do you feel. I haven't gone through that sequence
Speaker 5: of events. I don't think of.
Speaker 2: The badly Brews twenty two year old mum was taking
Speaker 2: my police to nearby Saint Vincent's Hospital to be treated
Speaker 2: for facial injuries.
Speaker 7: I've always had long nails, and I think these two
Speaker 7: nails sort of like broke in, like in the scuffle
Speaker 7: of it all. The detective was just trying to make
Speaker 7: light of the situation and he said, look at you.
Speaker 5: You're black and blue.
Speaker 7: You're lucky to be alive, and you're worrying about two
Speaker 7: broken nails. Yeah, I remember he was like nice and
Speaker 7: he said that. Then, like when I went and had
Speaker 7: the X rays taken, I remember something up against my
Speaker 7: face in order to have the X ray taken, and
Speaker 7: I remember that hurting like crazy, and that's still to
Speaker 7: this day hit. This area still hurts, like if you
Speaker 7: wash your face too hard, or if you've got a
Speaker 7: little one sitting on your lap. You know how they
Speaker 7: tend to sort of like rock back and forward. Yeah,
Speaker 7: the amount of times that my kids would do that.
Speaker 7: And so as soon as I get bumped in that area, automatically,
Speaker 7: that whole scenario of getting off the ballot, clap the
Speaker 7: person with the baloklava and getting bashed comes instantly into
Speaker 7: my mind. It's never anything else that that just comes
Speaker 7: instantly into my mind. And then I'm back in that mindset,
Speaker 7: and then it can last week's months, and I'm just
Speaker 7: I'm flawed. I'm just I'm down for the count. I'm hyper.
Speaker 7: And that's why I have a German Shepherd because then
Speaker 7: I know that I can feel safe because no one
Speaker 7: comes near you with the German Shepherd.
Speaker 2: After being released from hospital, detectives escorted Nicole into the
Speaker 2: city station just see if she could identify her attacker.
Speaker 7: I remember them saying that they have to go and
Speaker 7: have a look at the mugshots and to don't worry
Speaker 7: if you see him in the photos.
Speaker 5: It'll just jump right out, an't you.
Speaker 7: And that's exactly what happened when I was looking through
Speaker 7: all the photos, it just jumped Yeah, literally jumped and
Speaker 7: I still have that memory of his face still to
Speaker 7: this day, of those little photos.
Speaker 2: The face that jumped out of that photo was Kevin
Speaker 2: Stephen Cornwall's the man n cole knew as photographer Greg Hawkins. Coincidentally,
Speaker 2: Greg Hawkins was also the name of Kevin's brother in law.
Speaker 2: Kevin's Liverpool home was then raided by police. Several items
Speaker 2: were seized, including a six inch knife, a wallet, business cards,
Speaker 2: a blue and white stripe beanie with the word sharks
Speaker 2: on it, sand choose, and a blue and white long
Speaker 2: sleeve jumper. The real Greg Hawkins told police he'd given
Speaker 2: Kevin ten of his business cards to generate new Life
Speaker 2: insurance customers. Kevin was refused bail and sent to Long
Speaker 2: Bay Jail on remand two weeks after Nicole's attack, a
Speaker 2: mystery man phoned her unit. Nicole's husband answered, and this
Speaker 2: is what he told police. These are his words, but
Speaker 2: not his voice.
Speaker 3: On the thirtieth of October nineteen eighty three, I was
Speaker 3: at home with my wife when the telephone rang. I
Speaker 3: answered it and said hello. A male voice said mister,
Speaker 3: I said yes. He said, I want to give you
Speaker 3: some advice about your family. I said, who are you?
Speaker 3: He said, A maid of mine is going down because
Speaker 3: your wife reckons he attacked her. It's bullshit. I said,
Speaker 3: who are you? He said I was with him, mate,
Speaker 3: half an hour after he was supposed to have done it.
Speaker 3: He couldn't have done it. We were doing a job.
Speaker 3: I said, why don't you give your mate Cornwall a
Speaker 3: message from me. Tell him he'd better pray that he
Speaker 3: stays in jail, because if he doesn't, praying won't help him.
Speaker 3: He said, Oh, you're tough, mate, real tough. Just remember,
Speaker 3: if your wife puts him away, you and her and
Speaker 3: your family can take your choice of a shotgun or
Speaker 3: broken bones. I said, look, mate, we've got no hassles
Speaker 3: with you. Cornwell did it and he's going to wear it.
Speaker 3: He said he didn't do anything. I told the police
Speaker 3: that I saw him within half an hour, but they
Speaker 3: didn't believe me. They believed you're bitch of a w
Speaker 3: I said, listen, fuck with if you've got a problem
Speaker 3: with me, get your ass over here now. He said,
Speaker 3: don't worry, mate, I know where you live. You better
Speaker 3: be ready. The door won't stop me. I'll blow it open.
Speaker 3: I said, forget the door I'll be waiting outside. The
Speaker 3: caller hung up. I would describe the voice on the
Speaker 3: telephone as been that of an Australian male about twenty
Speaker 3: five years old. His voice was educated, but he sounded
Speaker 3: like an oka. I could hear background noises over the telephone,
Speaker 3: like that in a hotel, but the caller didn't sound
Speaker 3: as though he was drunk. After the call, my wife
Speaker 3: and I were greatly upset by it, and I have
Speaker 3: grave fears for the safety of both myself and my family.
Speaker 2: You are now going to hear a transcript from Kevin's
Speaker 2: recorded interview with police when he was questioned over the
Speaker 2: armed attack on the young mum at Darlinghurst at one
Speaker 2: forty five pm on the twenty ninth of September nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty three. This is an actor, not the voice of
Speaker 2: Kevin Cornwall.
Speaker 6: At about one o'clock, I walked up to the phone
Speaker 6: to ring the Electricity Commission about extensions of time for payment.
Speaker 6: I walked across the road to the garage at the
Speaker 6: end of our street and bought a newspaper, the Daily Telegraph.
Speaker 6: I then walked home. I was home for about five minutes,
Speaker 6: then I left and went to Liverpool to the Youth
Speaker 6: and Community Center. I was only there for about five
Speaker 6: minutes and then drove to a block of flats where
Speaker 6: I knew Greg Climpson lived to get a gearbox for
Speaker 6: a car. I went to park my car and when
Speaker 6: a lady come up to me and asked me not
Speaker 6: to park there as her husband was going to back
Speaker 6: a truck onto the caravan. I moved the car to
Speaker 6: the other side of the road and I asked that
Speaker 6: same lady did she know Greg Clemson and what unit
Speaker 6: he lived in. She replied no, and I said thanks, anyway,
Speaker 6: I'll see if I.
Speaker 5: Can find him.
Speaker 6: I saw number five above the garage door where I'd
Speaker 6: seen Greg working on his car previously, so I went
Speaker 6: to Unit five and knocked on the door, but no
Speaker 6: one answered. I went back out the front of the
Speaker 6: units and again had a conversation with the lady I
Speaker 6: spoke to earlier, and then I got back in my
Speaker 6: car and headed towards home. That decided to get some
Speaker 6: lunch from my wife and myself.
Speaker 2: The next part of Kevin's alibi will sound extraordinarily familiar
Speaker 2: to you.
Speaker 6: I stopped at a take away food bar in Terminus Street, Liverpool,
Speaker 6: where I purchased a batted save, a piece of fish,
Speaker 6: a bag of chips, and a loaf of bread. I'd
Speaker 6: asked the man behind the counter what sort of fish
Speaker 6: it was, and he wrote it down on a piece
Speaker 6: of paper, the word Hake. And he went to the
Speaker 6: fridge and pulled out a tray of fish, and he
Speaker 6: explained that it was the only fish he uses. I
Speaker 6: paid from the goods and went straight home.
Speaker 2: Kevin told police he arrived home at approximately ten past two.
Speaker 2: Detectives interviewed witnesses connected to the address where Kevin said
Speaker 2: he'd been on the afternoon in question. A resident by
Speaker 2: the name of Kaylen Musgrove was shown a photograph of
Speaker 2: Kevin and detailed her interaction with him that afternoon. She
Speaker 2: says Kevin parked his white Holden station wagon in her
Speaker 2: driveway and she asked him to politely move it. Kevin
Speaker 2: then asked her if she'd seen his brother in law.
Speaker 2: Kaylen's husband said he didn't actually know his brother in law.
Speaker 5: She said.
Speaker 2: The man she identified as Kevin then walked over to
Speaker 2: his car and drove off. Kaylen Musgrove told detectives he
Speaker 2: appeared very nervous and tense. Nicole's attack happened at one
Speaker 2: forty five pm at Darlinghurst, which is about thirty four
Speaker 2: kilometers away from Liverpool. It's around a fifty minute Kaylen
Speaker 2: Musgrove said her interaction with Kevin happened between two thirty
Speaker 2: and three pm, making it very possible Kevin could have
Speaker 2: made it back to Liverpool in that timeframe. The service
Speaker 2: station attendant at Liverpool was also shown a photograph of
Speaker 2: Kevin and asked if he came in to buy a
Speaker 2: newspaper on Thursday, the twenty ninth of September. She told police,
Speaker 2: I don't remember what time he came in exactly, but
Speaker 2: it was between two thirty pm and four thirty pm
Speaker 2: that day. Remember, Kevin told police he was there just
Speaker 2: after one pm. Kevin Stephen Cornwall, who was twenty seven
Speaker 2: at the time, were charged with attempted sexual assault, assault
Speaker 2: occasioning actual bodily harm, and armed robbery. Cornwall was later
Speaker 2: committed to stand trial, and Nicole remembers his demeanor at court.
Speaker 5: Smug, Yeah, smug and yeah, the attitude of height and
Speaker 5: do this.
Speaker 7: It wasn't as simple as just having to go through
Speaker 7: that trauma of going to court, like I'd never been
Speaker 7: inside a court ever, so to be confronted with that
Speaker 7: is mind boggling. Anyway, it's scary, Like I was what
Speaker 7: twenty two like, I was a kid, I was very immature,
Speaker 7: twenty two.
Speaker 5: Like I was a scared little what's the lowest form
Speaker 5: of a being.
Speaker 7: I was like a scared little aunt. I was like
Speaker 7: I felt like nothing. And yeah, so the jury people,
Speaker 7: I remember them looking at me and judging. And there
Speaker 7: was one particular day I had to wear this thin, black,
Speaker 7: tight skirt and this red off the shoulder jump up like,
Speaker 7: I look like a tart. I look like a slap.
Speaker 7: But that's what my ex husband did to me.
Speaker 2: Do you think that played into the decision of the jury.
Speaker 5: Absolutely? I do.
Speaker 2: So why do you believe that Kevin got away with it?
Speaker 7: Because the jury only heard about this one instance and
Speaker 7: they've got this female sitting in front of them that,
Speaker 7: on one particular day looked like a tart.
Speaker 2: At the time, Nicole often felt pressure from her then
Speaker 2: husband to dress a certain way. She thinks it affected
Speaker 2: the outcome of the trial. Kevin Cornwall was acquitted of
Speaker 2: all charges by the jury, just like he was in
Speaker 2: a separate rape troll a year earlier. Fast forward to
Speaker 2: two thousand and one, Kevin goes by the surname Correll
Speaker 2: and he's under investigation for the murder of his twenty
Speaker 2: three year old protege, Rachelle Charles. What went through your
Speaker 2: mind when you heard that he'd been investigated for the
Speaker 2: murder and suspected rape of a young woman.
Speaker 7: I felt scared because I still it's still always obviously
Speaker 7: you know, is he going to find me again? So yeah,
Speaker 7: instantly I got scared from my safety. Yeah, the instant
Speaker 7: that it came back into my life again. Yeah, I
Speaker 7: got scared.
Speaker 2: It's taken so much courage for you to speak out.
Speaker 5: But it's only because I want to see justice.
Speaker 2: Kevin Stephen Cornwall maintains his innocence and he was acquitted
Speaker 2: by a jury in both cases. I've asked Damien Luine
Speaker 2: to have a good look over the evidence in Jane
Speaker 2: and Nicole's cases. Let's get his take on them.
Speaker 10: It's all about deception. First of all. He goes to
Speaker 10: Jane where she's placed an advertisement in the local paper
Speaker 10: for someone to share a house on the pretense of
Speaker 10: doing that, and she's violently assaulted. So after the attack,
Speaker 10: he allegedly tells the victim Jane to shower. Now you
Speaker 10: have to look at the reasons why he's asking for
Speaker 10: that to happen, and it's perhaps maybe of the DNA
Speaker 10: contamination that he may be afraid of. With the second victim, Nicole,
Speaker 10: he's posed as a photographer. Now this is again deception.
Speaker 10: He provided a business card with a name, and Nichole
Speaker 10: immediately recognized who he was. He was a person who
Speaker 10: had been there before, pretending to be the photographer. Now
Speaker 10: again we have deception on this part.
Speaker 2: How much weight do you give when they point out
Speaker 2: someone in mugshots?
Speaker 10: Photograph identification is very difficult to say, at the very
Speaker 10: least in investigation phases. However, you have to really believe
Speaker 10: what the victim and it is telling you if they
Speaker 10: recognize that person, and sometimes you can just see it
Speaker 10: in their eyes when they're perusing the photo identification and
Speaker 10: normally it's done on my laptop back in that area
Speaker 10: was done with mugshots basically, and you can see their
Speaker 10: reactions straight away when and their eyes dilate, you can
Speaker 10: see that the body become tense, their movements, ay sweat,
Speaker 10: and you can obviously see the fear coming out inn't them,
Speaker 10: And to me, that was always a firm belief that
Speaker 10: the person who's pointing out this offender to me is believable,
Speaker 10: and that's the offender that's been involved in the attack.
Speaker 2: Well, it's a likelihood that two women could mistakenly point
Speaker 2: out Kevin in a mug shot.
Speaker 10: Well, this is very difficult to believe. I firmly believe
Speaker 10: that if two women have identified him in mugshot identification,
Speaker 10: then Kevin has got some problems because they can identify
Speaker 10: him and they've pointed the finger saying he's a person responsible.
Speaker 10: It's unlikely that would happen. I've never seen it. I've
Speaker 10: seen people pick out the same person in photograph identification
Speaker 10: and you're just building up your evidence against this person.
Speaker 10: And for two people who don't know each other to
Speaker 10: point him out is somewhat great evidence for the prosecution.
Speaker 2: In those cases. Well, in all of the cases against Kevin,
Speaker 2: he was acquitted.
Speaker 5: What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 10: Look difficult to say why he was acquitted and the
Speaker 10: reasons why. Now it's the onus of the prosecution to
Speaker 10: prove otherwise, and that can be difficult at the best
Speaker 10: of times, and sometimes the victims when they're giving examination
Speaker 10: or they're under cross examination, may withhold some information because
Speaker 10: they're embarrassed by what's happened. They're afraid, and it's difficult.
Speaker 10: You really have to think. You the prosecution, and it
Speaker 10: is always on the owners of the prosecution to prove
Speaker 10: the offenses. And it does happen, you know, sometimes we
Speaker 10: just don't get the verdict we want, even though we
Speaker 10: know we've got the right person.
Speaker 2: Are there any similarities in Kevin's alibi in all the
Speaker 2: historical matters he's been investigated over.
Speaker 10: Absolutely, and they're nearly all identical. And I'll go back
Speaker 10: to on the night that Rachelle left the Camden Hole
Speaker 10: and to go to somewhere, he says he went shopping
Speaker 10: into Campbelltown. He visited his girlfriend home it picked it,
Speaker 10: but she wasn't there. Then, he says, and this is
Speaker 10: where it rings alarm bells to me. He went to
Speaker 10: grab some fish and chips and a battered tarmor and
Speaker 10: he also visited a service station that night. Now, this
Speaker 10: alibi is similar to something that happened eighteen years earlier,
Speaker 10: and Kevin was questioned over his movements following us sexually
Speaker 10: a vaded attack on a young woman and Daly host.
Speaker 10: Now he told Plus it wasn't him. He said, I
Speaker 10: was getting fish and chips. That and I ordered a
Speaker 10: battered save piece of fish, bag of chips, and a
Speaker 10: loaf of bread. Now, let's go back to the night
Speaker 10: that Rachelle disappeared. He went to grab some fish and
Speaker 10: chips and about it saber turmoil in another matter, and
Speaker 10: this is the case where a young man was raped
Speaker 10: at punch bowl. He says he was getting takeaway. Now
Speaker 10: you have to ask, is there a common thread here
Speaker 10: or does he just like his greasy food.
Speaker 2: Rachelle's sister, Christie is incredibly grateful to both Jane and
Speaker 2: Nicole for sharing their stories with me. To shine a
Speaker 2: light on Rochelle's case, Christy recorded a video message for
Speaker 2: both women which I played to them.
Speaker 8: I just wanted to pass on how thankful we are
Speaker 8: here at team Sheell. My mum also passes on her thanks. Honestly,
Speaker 8: we cannot thank you enough. I really hope that what
Speaker 8: you've done today hasn't opened.
Speaker 5: Up too many old wounds.
Speaker 8: I'm sure that it has, But you are so incredibly brave,
Speaker 8: and even though I don't know you, I am just
Speaker 8: so proud of you. We need to stand up and
Speaker 8: we need to stand together. And even though I can't
Speaker 8: know you or see you or meet you, know that
Speaker 8: I stand with you and I just think that you're incredible.
Speaker 8: Thank you so much for helping us give Shell a voice.
Speaker 8: And even though it would have been really painful, I'm
Speaker 8: sure I hope that you feel empowered, and thank you
Speaker 8: for helping us to empower Chelle.
Speaker 5: If I was there, i'd give you a massive hug. Honestly,
Speaker 5: I have no words.
Speaker 8: Thank you so much, and I hope you're okay.
Speaker 2: How did you feel listening to that message?
Speaker 4: It's beautiful. I hope she gets justice for a sister.
Speaker 4: I really do.
Speaker 5: I feel quite empowered.
Speaker 7: And yeah, if you need anything else that could help, yeah,
Speaker 7: I'm more than happy because yeah, I feel different.
Speaker 5: I'm all good.
Speaker 2: We're all so grateful for you being so brave at
Speaker 2: this stage in your life. You didn't have to speak
Speaker 2: to me, you didn't have to share your story. It
Speaker 2: would have been easier for you to just hang up
Speaker 2: the phone.
Speaker 4: You can't do that when something like this happens, because
Speaker 4: you've got to got to don't let him scare you.
Speaker 5: The other women.
Speaker 1: Full sure.
Speaker 5: I have full confidence in that telling you you need justice.
Speaker 4: She needs justice, that young girl, And.
Speaker 2: Like Christy says, we have to stand together.
Speaker 5: Yep, all of us.
Speaker 7: The better.
Speaker 5: I would want to do anything.
Speaker 4: I just want to help her.
Speaker 5: Thank you again for being so kind to me. That
Speaker 5: was very difficult.
Speaker 4: He's not going to ever scare me again. You can
Speaker 4: run away, but you can't hide.
Speaker 2: On the next episode of Dear Rochelle.
Speaker 9: I met Kevin at a singles night. He told me
Speaker 9: that he was a psychologist.
Speaker 4: Alice had received phone calls from a gentleman who was
Speaker 4: a previous partner that he had the house bugged. I said,
Speaker 4: you just keep right away.
Speaker 5: He'd have his friends take care of me. I'd be
Speaker 5: dead by the end of the month.
Speaker 9: And with that he said, you're just a prattease and
Speaker 9: one of these is they going to find you slip
Speaker 9: from the fanny to the throat in a car park.
Speaker 2: Debt de Rochelle is a multimedia production from True Crime Australia.
Speaker 2: If you want to be the first to find out
Speaker 2: what happens next, go to deroshell dot com dot au.
Speaker 2: That's where News Corp Australia Subscribers get early access to
Speaker 2: podcast episodes and breaking news in our live investigation before
Speaker 2: anybody else, and you'll also find exclusive videos, interactive evidence,
Speaker 2: feature articles and more. That's deroshell dot com dot a U,
Speaker 2: d E A R R A C h E W
Speaker 2: l E dot com dot a U. If you have
Speaker 2: any tips or confidential information to share with me, Ashley Hanson,
Speaker 2: please send an email to Deroshelle at news dot com
Speaker 2: dot AU. Our supervising producer and audio editor is Reese Gunter,
Speaker 2: Rachel Fountain, Executive producer and audio director. Our executive editor
Speaker 2: is Sarah Blake. Our senior journalist is Patrick Carline. Video
Speaker 2: editors are Gillian McNally, Owen Yang and Stephen Woods. Picture
Speaker 2: editors are Jeff dr Mannan and Christy Miller. Senior camera
Speaker 2: operators are Daniel Andrews and Oscar Viera, with sound designed
Speaker 2: by Martin Perolta. Thanks also to Greg Thompson and Lennie Paneraz,
Speaker 2: Show Burreo Fayguld, Vanessa Grabb, Hailey Goddard, Stephen Grice, Charlotte Carp,
Speaker 2: Tina Coggins, and Harry Hughes. Special thanks to the Daily
Speaker 2: Telegraph editor Ben English and dear Rochelle would not be
Speaker 2: possible without the help, and I'm waivering support of Christian
Speaker 2: Ann Childs, Mindy Wicks, Damien Loon and Rachelle's friends. This
Speaker 2: podcast series is hosted and investigated by me Ashley Hanson