WEBVTT - The Classifieds Predator | 6

0:00:00.680 --> 0:00:03.360
<v Speaker 1>I think the person who killed her will be worried

0:00:03.640 --> 0:00:16.800
<v Speaker 1>about this podcast and the new attention, media attention and

0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:28.400
<v Speaker 1>local attention back on it. I think given that they

0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:31.400
<v Speaker 1>would have experienced this anxiety which we see through the haste,

0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:35.440
<v Speaker 1>I think it will reignite that anxiety. I think that

0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:38.800
<v Speaker 1>once this comes out, this podcast comes out, and there's

0:00:38.880 --> 0:00:42.360
<v Speaker 1>media coverage, I think the person will become worried again.

0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:44.520
<v Speaker 1>They'll probably be a bit cocky because they've got away

0:00:44.520 --> 0:00:46.479
<v Speaker 1>with it for a long time, but in the back

0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:50.120
<v Speaker 1>of mind they'll be going, oh, people could still talk,

0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:54.279
<v Speaker 1>because this is not the kind of offender would keep

0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:58.720
<v Speaker 1>his mouth shut. I think he's spoken in some way

0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:03.400
<v Speaker 1>about it. May not have said I killed her, but

0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:06.520
<v Speaker 1>he may have said things about the crime, things about

0:01:06.520 --> 0:01:10.600
<v Speaker 1>the car, things about the handbag and the shoes that

0:01:10.800 --> 0:01:13.440
<v Speaker 1>could just stand out to someone who heard it. And

0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:16.880
<v Speaker 1>it's those people that the investigation needs to come forward.

0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:30.280
<v Speaker 2>That's Grizzilling's worth. An FBI trained criminal profiler who investigated

0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:36.600
<v Speaker 2>Rochelle's murder in two thousand and three, I'm Ashley Hanson.

0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:40.320
<v Speaker 2>This is episode six of Dear Rochelle, a podcast by

0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:49.280
<v Speaker 2>True Crime Australia.

0:01:57.440 --> 0:01:59.800
<v Speaker 1>I think this offender would have a domestic bolence history,

0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:04.880
<v Speaker 1>maybe not then, and with the domestic ans, it would

0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:09.520
<v Speaker 1>be that he did impulsive, reactive type of violence. With

0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:13.079
<v Speaker 1>that kind of violence, you'd also see coursive control behaviors

0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:18.120
<v Speaker 1>as well, monitoring of the partner, keeping control without not

0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:23.560
<v Speaker 1>handling situations, not experiencing a strong sense of control over

0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:28.320
<v Speaker 1>the person so constantly trying to get control, and those

0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:31.720
<v Speaker 1>kind of people often can't hold down a job either

0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:34.720
<v Speaker 1>because they're reactive. I think this person would have a

0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:41.240
<v Speaker 1>more unstable relationship history, unstable employment history simply because of

0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:42.520
<v Speaker 1>his personality traits.

0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:46.040
<v Speaker 2>Do you think the person responsible had a history of

0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:46.960
<v Speaker 2>sexual violence?

0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:47.239
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:49.320
<v Speaker 1>I think he would have forced himself onto other women,

0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:52.919
<v Speaker 1>and I don't think this was the first time he's

0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:55.600
<v Speaker 1>ever done that. What scenes to have happened is that

0:02:56.000 --> 0:03:01.080
<v Speaker 1>he and Rochelle were interacting with one another, probably for

0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:03.560
<v Speaker 1>at least an hour on maybe two hours or so,

0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:07.959
<v Speaker 1>and at some point defender has decided, well, you know,

0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:12.400
<v Speaker 1>I want sex, and iss forced to do it. He

0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:15.480
<v Speaker 1>may have tried to convince her and maybe something's happened consensually,

0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:18.520
<v Speaker 1>perhaps or maybe the entire event was forceful.

0:03:18.680 --> 0:03:21.120
<v Speaker 2>We don't know at this point, so potentially a highly

0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:22.760
<v Speaker 2>compulsive sex offender.

0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:26.520
<v Speaker 1>Yes, someone who's going to act out and feel some

0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:31.200
<v Speaker 1>kind of entitlement also over women, and probably is quite misogynistic.

0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:34.920
<v Speaker 2>I'd expect the man that Chris Sillings wor just profiled

0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:38.440
<v Speaker 2>bears a resemblance to the prime suspect in Rochelle's murder,

0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:44.200
<v Speaker 2>her boss, Kevin Stephen Carrell. Kevin strenuously denies any involvement

0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:48.440
<v Speaker 2>in Rochelle's death. He has willingly participated in three records

0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:52.080
<v Speaker 2>of interview with police, including giving a detailed account of

0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:54.880
<v Speaker 2>his movements on the seventh of June two thousand and one,

0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:58.400
<v Speaker 2>although he did not have any alibi witnesses to back

0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:02.400
<v Speaker 2>him up on Neil inquest was held into Rochelle's death.

0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:05.280
<v Speaker 2>At the end of the inquest in two thousand and eight,

0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:09.440
<v Speaker 2>the coroner made an open finding in relation to Rochelle's

0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:12.520
<v Speaker 2>death and True Crime Australia is not saying he is

0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:16.039
<v Speaker 2>guilty of any crimes, just that there are reasonable grounds

0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:18.760
<v Speaker 2>for suspecting he committed rapes in the past that he

0:04:18.839 --> 0:04:22.839
<v Speaker 2>was charged with, and reasonable grounds to suspect he may

0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:33.200
<v Speaker 2>have been involved in Rochelle's murder. Remember, Kevin changed his

0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:37.160
<v Speaker 2>name from Cornwall to Correll sometime before he arrived at

0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:41.320
<v Speaker 2>Camden Holden. You're about to meet two brave women who

0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:45.080
<v Speaker 2>survived being attacked at knife point in the nineteen eighties.

0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:49.279
<v Speaker 2>They identified Kevin Cornwall as their attacker that he was

0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:53.200
<v Speaker 2>later acquitted in both cases. When not using the women's

0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:56.440
<v Speaker 2>real names, just a heads up, You're about to hear

0:04:56.560 --> 0:05:00.400
<v Speaker 2>survivor accounts of sexual violence that some listener as may

0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:04.599
<v Speaker 2>find upsetting. Pay attention to the alibi Kevin gives police

0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:11.800
<v Speaker 2>when questioned over each of the attacks. Jane Ashley, there

0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:12.320
<v Speaker 2>are you going?

0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:12.880
<v Speaker 3>Oh nice?

0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:15.360
<v Speaker 4>I just said I'm looking at your picture up the

0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:17.400
<v Speaker 4>game to make sure that I got you.

0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:21.440
<v Speaker 2>So, Jane, take me back to November nineteen eighty. You're

0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:24.040
<v Speaker 2>a mom of two young boys. What was your life like?

0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:24.840
<v Speaker 2>What were you up to?

0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:28.040
<v Speaker 4>My life was good and I had a four year

0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:30.719
<v Speaker 4>old and a six year old and had a lovely

0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:31.520
<v Speaker 4>boyfriend and.

0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:32.320
<v Speaker 5>Life was good.

0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:34.080
<v Speaker 2>And where were you living?

0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:35.719
<v Speaker 4>I was living in punch Bowl.

0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:38.279
<v Speaker 2>I understand you put an ad in the paper.

0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:40.400
<v Speaker 4>Yes, we put an ad in the paper. We had

0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:43.719
<v Speaker 4>my sister living there beforehand, and she moved out so

0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:46.440
<v Speaker 4>we wanted somebody else to rent to help us get

0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:48.520
<v Speaker 4>the rent up. So we put an ad in the

0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:51.400
<v Speaker 4>paper for someone to rent the room.

0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:54.760
<v Speaker 2>And did you get much of a response from that ad?

0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:57.880
<v Speaker 4>Yes, we got a response from a young man that

0:05:57.960 --> 0:06:02.320
<v Speaker 4>came by it six o'clock night and then came back

0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:02.839
<v Speaker 4>later on.

0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:06.560
<v Speaker 2>Do you remember that man and do you remember him

0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:08.960
<v Speaker 2>first coming to the house and looking at the house?

0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:11.680
<v Speaker 4>Yes, I remember him coming in to have a look

0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:14.520
<v Speaker 4>at the room and the kitchen in the lound room,

0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:17.120
<v Speaker 4>and I remember him coming back.

0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:22.599
<v Speaker 2>When he was looking in the house and talking to you.

0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:27.080
<v Speaker 2>Did you feel uneasy at any stage about his visit?

0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:31.039
<v Speaker 4>No, not at all. He's quite nice.

0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:34.120
<v Speaker 2>Was he interacting with the kids?

0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:37.799
<v Speaker 4>The kids were in bed, both my children in bed

0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:38.880
<v Speaker 4>at that stage.

0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:42.359
<v Speaker 2>Kevin Cornwill admits he did go to Jane's house a

0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:45.200
<v Speaker 2>punch bowl in Western Sydney on the evening of the

0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:49.040
<v Speaker 2>nineteenth of November nineteen eighty to check out that room

0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:53.839
<v Speaker 2>she was advertising to rent. Detectives found Jane's address written

0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:57.360
<v Speaker 2>on a piece of paper in his pocket. Detectives asked

0:06:57.400 --> 0:07:00.520
<v Speaker 2>Kevin if the handwriting on the paper was his, and

0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:01.800
<v Speaker 2>this is what he told them.

0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:05.280
<v Speaker 6>Yes, but how do you know it was made?

0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:08.320
<v Speaker 2>These are Kevin's words, voiced by an actor.

0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:11.640
<v Speaker 6>I drive to Liverpool and stopped at the shopping center.

0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:15.080
<v Speaker 6>I bought tea there and a takeaway food bar and

0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:18.480
<v Speaker 6>took the meal home. I had a conversation with a

0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:18.920
<v Speaker 6>girl there.

0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:22.559
<v Speaker 2>He knows Kevin's mother and his wife at the time

0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:26.600
<v Speaker 2>gave evidence during the trial to support Kevin's alibi. We've

0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:29.840
<v Speaker 2>beat Kevin's former wife's name to protect her identity.

0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:36.040
<v Speaker 4>He returned later that night and I was walking down

0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:40.800
<v Speaker 4>the harse to sh reshow him the loudrym and that he.

0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:41.480
<v Speaker 5>Pulled a knife on me.

0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:50.320
<v Speaker 4>And what happened next, and then he proceeded to tell

0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:51.840
<v Speaker 4>me that if I didn't do what he said, he

0:07:51.880 --> 0:07:54.960
<v Speaker 4>would kill my kids. We both were sleeping in the

0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:57.520
<v Speaker 4>front room, which he knew they were because I told

0:07:57.600 --> 0:08:01.600
<v Speaker 4>him the first time. So I did what he said,

0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:02.560
<v Speaker 4>and he raped.

0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:08.160
<v Speaker 2>Me, Jane says, with a knife to her throat. He

0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:11.840
<v Speaker 2>ordered her into the lounge room and told her to undress.

0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:15.880
<v Speaker 2>Kevin allegedly told her he killed a cop and raped

0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:19.119
<v Speaker 2>a woman before, and he wouldn't hesitate in killing her

0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:23.960
<v Speaker 2>or her children. During the attack, the doorbell rang. It

0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:27.840
<v Speaker 2>was another man interested in the room for rant. That

0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:31.520
<v Speaker 2>witness said, a man he knew as Kevin Cornwall answered

0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:35.040
<v Speaker 2>the door and said, she's not here. She's been called

0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:38.320
<v Speaker 2>away to the country. Her boyfriend has been killed in

0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:42.679
<v Speaker 2>a car smash. The witness also told police he recognized

0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:48.520
<v Speaker 2>Kevin from his local club. What do you remember about

0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:49.559
<v Speaker 2>his demeanor?

0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:55.440
<v Speaker 4>Really just mechanical.

0:08:56.440 --> 0:08:58.720
<v Speaker 5>Just do this, do that?

0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:06.240
<v Speaker 4>Just mechanical. He wasn't there that long, probably half an

0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:11.040
<v Speaker 4>hour or so. Do this, do that? Get in the shower. Well,

0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:15.160
<v Speaker 4>it's like looking in to somebody's eyes and you can

0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:18.520
<v Speaker 4>see their soul. He hasn't got one. He's just there's

0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:22.320
<v Speaker 4>nothing there. It's like he'd just done it so many

0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:27.920
<v Speaker 4>times before and it just to go ahead and rape

0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:30.840
<v Speaker 4>at his pleasure. And after the rape, he told me

0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:36.240
<v Speaker 4>to get into the shower, stand there and not come

0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:37.520
<v Speaker 4>out for half an hour.

0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:42.360
<v Speaker 2>When was the moment that you realized he'd left and

0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:43.520
<v Speaker 2>you'd survived this?

0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:48.040
<v Speaker 4>When I heard the door click. My shower was out

0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:51.959
<v Speaker 4>the back and the door was opening the shower, and

0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:54.360
<v Speaker 4>I heard the front door because it was a long hallway,

0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:58.280
<v Speaker 4>I heard the front door click, and that's when I

0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:00.040
<v Speaker 4>got out and checked on my Chho.

0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:02.360
<v Speaker 5>Children, you must have ruand him there.

0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:05.320
<v Speaker 4>So with the lock on the door, couldn't afford to

0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:09.200
<v Speaker 4>fall apart because I had children. So I just rang

0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:11.600
<v Speaker 4>my sister and said, come and get me. There's something's happened.

0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:15.679
<v Speaker 2>I was going through your mind when this had all unfolded.

0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:21.840
<v Speaker 4>Why just why, why would you do that to a

0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:27.160
<v Speaker 4>mother of two kids? That's why would you threaten two

0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:31.480
<v Speaker 4>children that could never hurt you. He just knew what

0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:34.040
<v Speaker 4>to say, especially when he rang me back up again.

0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:38.120
<v Speaker 4>When he rang me, he said, if you report me,

0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:40.360
<v Speaker 4>I will come back and kill you and your children.

0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:43.240
<v Speaker 4>It was like, had it all been rehearsed before?

0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:48.600
<v Speaker 2>What do you remember about those threats that he said

0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:51.640
<v Speaker 2>to you?

0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:55.880
<v Speaker 4>Just said he. I just knew that he was never

0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:58.679
<v Speaker 4>going to stop by the way he threatened me. So

0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:01.240
<v Speaker 4>I knew I had to do something, and so I

0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:01.960
<v Speaker 4>told the police.

0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:05.120
<v Speaker 2>You called your sister, Yeah, she must have raced over.

0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:09.160
<v Speaker 4>She did, Yeah, she came over. We bundled the kids

0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:12.920
<v Speaker 4>into the car and we went off to the police

0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:16.559
<v Speaker 4>station and I told him my story. And they were

0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:22.319
<v Speaker 4>terrific detectives that took on the case, and they then

0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:25.360
<v Speaker 4>I went to the hospital and my sister took the

0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:28.680
<v Speaker 4>children to her place and stayed with them, and the

0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:31.360
<v Speaker 4>hospital was great. Then I went back to the police

0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:36.840
<v Speaker 4>station and started looking through some mugshots, hundreds and hundreds

0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:41.640
<v Speaker 4>and hundreds of mug shots. Couldn't tell you how many

0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:44.840
<v Speaker 4>were there. And then I found him. Just when I

0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:46.760
<v Speaker 4>was just about to give up and say I can't

0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:52.120
<v Speaker 4>look at any more, I found his face and showed

0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:52.640
<v Speaker 4>the police.

0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:58.320
<v Speaker 2>And what was it about that photo that you recognized

0:11:58.760 --> 0:11:59.520
<v Speaker 2>of your attacker.

0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:03.280
<v Speaker 4>You couldn't forget his face. He had a mile between

0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:07.160
<v Speaker 4>his eyes, and you just could not forget his face anyway,

0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:11.480
<v Speaker 4>because it only happened a couple of hours before then,

0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:16.480
<v Speaker 4>So it was so fresh in my mind. And I'll

0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:20.040
<v Speaker 4>never forget him. I'll never forget him ever, but he'll

0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:21.240
<v Speaker 4>never be a part of my life.

0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:25.080
<v Speaker 2>What stood out to me when I saw archive footage

0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:28.319
<v Speaker 2>of Kevin attending Rochelle's inquest in two thousand and six

0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:31.880
<v Speaker 2>is he did have a distinctive bump or raised growth

0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:35.000
<v Speaker 2>like a mole in the middle of his forehead. However,

0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:38.800
<v Speaker 2>in the most recent photos of Kevin captured through our investigation,

0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:42.000
<v Speaker 2>the growth is no longer visible to see images of

0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:45.080
<v Speaker 2>Kevin head to our website. Dear Rochelle dot com.

0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:45.640
<v Speaker 7>Do I you.

0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:52.360
<v Speaker 2>And when you told the police this is him, this

0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:55.720
<v Speaker 2>is the man who attacked me. What did they say?

0:12:56.040 --> 0:12:59.160
<v Speaker 4>They knew him, they knew exactly what his mo was like.

0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:04.120
<v Speaker 4>And as I told them that he'd come and answered

0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:05.920
<v Speaker 4>an ad in the paper for a room for rent,

0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:09.079
<v Speaker 4>and they said, that's exactactly his mo o. He's done

0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:13.920
<v Speaker 4>it before they knew who he was, and they went

0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:14.760
<v Speaker 4>out after him.

0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:17.640
<v Speaker 2>And you pushed through that fear and you went to

0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:21.600
<v Speaker 2>court and faced him in court after he was charged

0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:26.400
<v Speaker 2>with your rape. It was nineteen eighty two, just over

0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:32.800
<v Speaker 2>a year after the attack, and Kevin Stephen Cornwall was

0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:35.720
<v Speaker 2>on trial for your rape. Can you tell me about

0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:36.280
<v Speaker 2>that trial?

0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:42.560
<v Speaker 4>Not anything I'd wish on anybody, because you have to

0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:45.679
<v Speaker 4>prove that he's done it, and they bring up all

0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:48.560
<v Speaker 4>your past, which I was told before and before I

0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:51.480
<v Speaker 4>went to court, and was still prepared to go to

0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:54.680
<v Speaker 4>stop a monster and.

0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:10.520
<v Speaker 2>Take your time. It's okay.

0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:18.160
<v Speaker 4>Anyway. I tried to get through it. And when the

0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:20.800
<v Speaker 4>court case was over and the jury couldn't come to

0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:23.520
<v Speaker 4>a decision, I just told them that he'd never stop.

0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:26.040
<v Speaker 2>You told me jury that, yep.

0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:27.800
<v Speaker 5>I just.

0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:34.840
<v Speaker 2>To think about you going through that trial and then

0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:37.840
<v Speaker 2>bringing up your past. What were they bringing.

0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:41.240
<v Speaker 4>Up when I was fourteen years old? I was in

0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:44.360
<v Speaker 4>a girl's home, which had nothing to do with this.

0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:47.760
<v Speaker 4>I mean I was twenty three years old now and

0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:50.880
<v Speaker 4>my life was great, and all they did was bring

0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:56.480
<v Speaker 4>up my past and nothing about him, which very unfair.

0:14:56.800 --> 0:14:58.360
<v Speaker 2>You felt like you were on trial.

0:14:58.520 --> 0:14:58.760
<v Speaker 8>Yep.

0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:02.560
<v Speaker 4>Ye, that's what they made you feel like, especially his lawyer.

0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:05.480
<v Speaker 2>There was a man who gave evidence that came to

0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:09.600
<v Speaker 2>the door that night during your attack, and he gave

0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:16.400
<v Speaker 2>evidence and recognized Kevin from the club. So there were

0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:22.120
<v Speaker 2>two people that positively identified him, and yet he still

0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:23.040
<v Speaker 2>got away with it.

0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:24.600
<v Speaker 5>Yes, he certainly did.

0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:27.920
<v Speaker 4>It's very hard to convince a jury to put somebody

0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:32.240
<v Speaker 4>away that's done something so horrendous. But I don't know

0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:33.000
<v Speaker 4>why they didn't.

0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:37.320
<v Speaker 2>Kevin admits to being at the home that night to

0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:41.440
<v Speaker 2>inspect the property, but he denied that he returned and

0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:44.720
<v Speaker 2>said that there was a man of European appearance at

0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:47.560
<v Speaker 2>the property. Could you have been mistaken?

0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:48.440
<v Speaker 5>Never?

0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:52.760
<v Speaker 4>I could not mistake that face ever, And as I said,

0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:56.640
<v Speaker 4>I went through hundreds and hundreds of photos, so many

0:15:56.680 --> 0:15:59.200
<v Speaker 4>that they were all starting to blur into one until

0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:01.720
<v Speaker 4>I was just about to give up, and there he was.

0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:05.400
<v Speaker 4>So there's no way I can mistake that face.

0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:07.560
<v Speaker 2>Did you regret going to court?

0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:11.480
<v Speaker 4>No, never regretted it, Never regretted it all. I was

0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:14.480
<v Speaker 4>hoping that at least if they'd put him away for

0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:18.160
<v Speaker 4>a while, he couldn't hurt anybody else. But as I said,

0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:21.240
<v Speaker 4>he will never stop, ever, ever stop until they put

0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:21.760
<v Speaker 4>him away.

0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:25.000
<v Speaker 2>Is that what drove you to take it all the

0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:28.800
<v Speaker 2>way to court was your fear of him hurting other women?

0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:31.760
<v Speaker 4>Yes, that's exactly why I took it to court because

0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:34.200
<v Speaker 4>I didn't want anybody else to have to go through

0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:39.160
<v Speaker 4>what I went through. And obviously he seeks out people

0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:42.520
<v Speaker 4>with children so that he can have that get threat

0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:46.760
<v Speaker 4>against them, to say I will hurt you and your children,

0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:49.960
<v Speaker 4>and any mother is not going to get their child hurt.

0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:53.480
<v Speaker 4>So but that's what he wants. He wants you to

0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:55.560
<v Speaker 4>do that. He wants you to think, oh, come back,

0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:57.680
<v Speaker 4>but don't let him get it over here.

0:16:57.840 --> 0:16:59.360
<v Speaker 2>How old are you now and do you ever think

0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:02.600
<v Speaker 2>back to that night that you were attacked.

0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:06.320
<v Speaker 4>I'm sixty seven years old, and I don't give him

0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:08.920
<v Speaker 4>any thought because he's not going to take over my life.

0:17:09.640 --> 0:17:14.240
<v Speaker 4>I just forget him because he's not worth anything. He's

0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:16.560
<v Speaker 4>just a speck of nothing.

0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:20.400
<v Speaker 2>He now goes by the name of Kevin Stephen Carrell.

0:17:21.040 --> 0:17:22.639
<v Speaker 2>Have you ever heard of that name before?

0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:24.680
<v Speaker 4>No? No, never heard of it.

0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:30.119
<v Speaker 2>His name was made public in and around after Rochelle's

0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:32.800
<v Speaker 2>death because he was named as a suspect in her

0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:37.119
<v Speaker 2>inquest in two thousand and six. Of course, you wouldn't

0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:39.359
<v Speaker 2>have known and put two and two together because you

0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:41.480
<v Speaker 2>knew him as Kevin Cornwall.

0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:43.440
<v Speaker 4>Yep, Kevin Stephen Cornwall.

0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:46.520
<v Speaker 2>What was your reaction when I told you that he

0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:47.480
<v Speaker 2>changed his name.

0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:52.960
<v Speaker 4>You can run away, but you can't hide. I don't

0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:55.960
<v Speaker 4>know what to say. He doesn't scare me at all anymore,

0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:57.160
<v Speaker 4>not one bit.

0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:04.080
<v Speaker 2>Kevin maintains his innocence and was acquitted by a jury

0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:08.240
<v Speaker 2>and his alibi. He stopped at a shopping center in Liverpool,

0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:11.240
<v Speaker 2>and he also went to a takeaway food shop where

0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:16.679
<v Speaker 2>he picked up dinner. Jane isn't the only woman to

0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:21.240
<v Speaker 2>accuse Kevin Stephen Cornwall of a sexually motivated attack. There

0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:24.399
<v Speaker 2>are four women we know about, and he's going to

0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:28.240
<v Speaker 2>hear from other alleged victims, but it's important to stress.

0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:31.919
<v Speaker 2>Kevin pleaded not guilty to all charges, and he was

0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:36.560
<v Speaker 2>later acquitted by four separate juries. Three years after Jane

0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:40.160
<v Speaker 2>was raped, police were hunting the perpetrator of an alarmingly

0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:43.560
<v Speaker 2>similar crime, this time in the inner Sydney suburb of

0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:47.320
<v Speaker 2>Darlinghurst in nineteen eighty three. Here's the ad that was

0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:50.880
<v Speaker 2>placed in the classified section of the Daily Telegraph that year.

0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:57.320
<v Speaker 5>Stunning blonde Gold Coast model available for fashion and figure

0:18:57.359 --> 0:18:59.399
<v Speaker 5>photography phone this number.

0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:11.960
<v Speaker 2>Three has lad. I've just flown in to meet that model.

0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:16.359
<v Speaker 2>We'll call her Nicole. She's accompanied by her giant German

0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:18.720
<v Speaker 2>shepherd to pick me up from the airport.

0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:24.520
<v Speaker 5>Alrighty, I'm as nervous as said.

0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:33.760
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, it's okay, Yeah, come on, puppy.

0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:37.720
<v Speaker 2>Two weeks before the attack, a man who called himself

0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:42.480
<v Speaker 2>Greg Hawkins responded to Nicole's ad and visited her Darlinghurst

0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:45.760
<v Speaker 2>unit to discuss a photo shoot. He claimed he was

0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:49.200
<v Speaker 2>a photographer wanting to book her for a semi nude shoot.

0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:52.760
<v Speaker 2>During the visit, Nicole says he asked her to show

0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:57.440
<v Speaker 2>him her body. She refused, demanding he provide more information

0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:01.520
<v Speaker 2>and identification, but he could only produce a business card

0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:05.320
<v Speaker 2>with the name Greek Hawkins printed on it. Nicole says

0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:07.800
<v Speaker 2>he used his finger to cover the bottom of the

0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:13.160
<v Speaker 2>business card. On that occasion, he left without incident. Two

0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:16.560
<v Speaker 2>weeks later, she answered the door to a monster. It's

0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:20.119
<v Speaker 2>been forty years, but Nicole's memory of that day she

0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:23.560
<v Speaker 2>was attacked while her eleven month old baby boy slept

0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:25.200
<v Speaker 2>in his cot is vivid.

0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:28.840
<v Speaker 7>We were going to be going downtown and I was

0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:31.919
<v Speaker 7>going to buy a high chair because I had some

0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:35.120
<v Speaker 7>money that I could go buy his high chair, and

0:20:35.160 --> 0:20:37.840
<v Speaker 7>that's why he was asleep, and I was all dressed

0:20:37.880 --> 0:20:39.800
<v Speaker 7>and ready, and I was just waiting for him to

0:20:39.880 --> 0:20:43.679
<v Speaker 7>wake up and then we're going to go downtown. So

0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:47.280
<v Speaker 7>when I when a knock at the door, I don't

0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:51.320
<v Speaker 7>remember that I was expecting anyone, because my intention was

0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:53.960
<v Speaker 7>we were going to be going downtown and get the

0:20:54.000 --> 0:20:56.720
<v Speaker 7>high chair. So the knock at the door, I opened

0:20:56.760 --> 0:21:08.040
<v Speaker 7>it and it was ban instant melaclava. The knife was

0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:11.480
<v Speaker 7>held up here. He pushed me back into it. There

0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:22.000
<v Speaker 7>were a couple of steps up into the unit, and

0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:28.760
<v Speaker 7>he just pushed me like into the unit and then

0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:32.680
<v Speaker 7>the knife was at my throat. He had the knife

0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:41.120
<v Speaker 7>up and down my throat like instantly, and I remember thinking,

0:21:41.359 --> 0:21:45.040
<v Speaker 7>holy ship, I'm going to die. This is Sydney, That's

0:21:45.080 --> 0:21:47.080
<v Speaker 7>what I thought I was gonna I was gonna die.

0:21:47.400 --> 0:21:50.439
<v Speaker 7>I remember him mumbling something about what money for drugs?

0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:56.600
<v Speaker 7>Money for drugs. We you know, like we were smoking pot.

0:21:56.760 --> 0:21:59.919
<v Speaker 7>And I remember going into the kitchen and getting the mulbi,

0:22:00.760 --> 0:22:04.240
<v Speaker 7>but it was like hardly anything there and I don't

0:22:04.320 --> 0:22:08.960
<v Speaker 7>even think he took it. I went to my bag

0:22:09.040 --> 0:22:11.959
<v Speaker 7>that was hanging over the chair and I got my

0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:16.760
<v Speaker 7>purse out. I don't remember the you know, the order,

0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:19.600
<v Speaker 7>but he took that money.

0:22:19.960 --> 0:22:21.440
<v Speaker 2>And that was the money for the high chair.

0:22:21.600 --> 0:22:25.600
<v Speaker 5>Yeah. Yeah, it was seventy dollars. That would have been

0:22:25.600 --> 0:22:28.680
<v Speaker 5>a lot of money back then. Yes it was. Yeah,

0:22:28.720 --> 0:22:29.639
<v Speaker 5>it was a lot of money.

0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:34.199
<v Speaker 7>And I had to but I had secretly saved that money,

0:22:34.880 --> 0:22:37.760
<v Speaker 7>and I remember had I had it was hidden in

0:22:37.840 --> 0:22:50.200
<v Speaker 7>the in my cupboard in the bedroom.

0:22:50.200 --> 0:22:50.960
<v Speaker 5>Sorry, can we.

0:22:51.000 --> 0:22:54.280
<v Speaker 2>Just we can stop, We can pause for sure, take

0:22:54.280 --> 0:22:54.720
<v Speaker 2>your time.

0:22:56.960 --> 0:22:59.119
<v Speaker 5>No, I gotta just like get it all out. And then.

0:23:00.960 --> 0:23:04.280
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, so he was like saying, yeah, money for drugs.

0:23:06.080 --> 0:23:10.399
<v Speaker 7>Wanted drugs, and yeah, like I said, I went to

0:23:10.400 --> 0:23:13.840
<v Speaker 7>the marlbole. I don't remember whether he did that, he

0:23:13.920 --> 0:23:17.600
<v Speaker 7>had the money, and then it was I'm not real

0:23:17.720 --> 0:23:23.639
<v Speaker 7>clear on how quickly it happened, but he told me

0:23:23.680 --> 0:23:28.200
<v Speaker 7>to get into the bedroom and get bit my clothes off.

0:23:28.240 --> 0:23:31.640
<v Speaker 7>I can't remember how he said it, but the next

0:23:31.680 --> 0:23:34.920
<v Speaker 7>sequence from when he was standing there saying all that

0:23:35.240 --> 0:23:37.520
<v Speaker 7>and the knife was going up and down my throat,

0:23:39.000 --> 0:23:42.360
<v Speaker 7>I was. I went into the bedroom and like obviously

0:23:42.359 --> 0:23:47.120
<v Speaker 7>he followed, and I've just always undressed from the bottom down,

0:23:47.240 --> 0:23:51.119
<v Speaker 7>never the top down. And I remember I had like,

0:23:51.480 --> 0:23:53.600
<v Speaker 7>I liked this, I guess three quid of pants on

0:23:53.880 --> 0:23:59.080
<v Speaker 7>you know all back then they had zips yeah, around

0:23:59.400 --> 0:24:02.480
<v Speaker 7>the bottom of the leg yeah, on the side that yeah,

0:24:02.560 --> 0:24:08.600
<v Speaker 7>yeah yeah. And went in there and I was like

0:24:08.720 --> 0:24:14.840
<v Speaker 7>trying to stall, and so I remember taking my pants

0:24:14.880 --> 0:24:15.720
<v Speaker 7>off first.

0:24:18.119 --> 0:24:18.399
<v Speaker 9>Fuck.

0:24:20.760 --> 0:24:25.199
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, I sort of unzipped them and I took my

0:24:25.440 --> 0:24:33.199
<v Speaker 7>pants off, and then I remember saying, what are you

0:24:33.280 --> 0:24:34.160
<v Speaker 7>doing back here?

0:24:38.160 --> 0:24:40.720
<v Speaker 5>That was a big mistake because.

0:24:41.000 --> 0:24:45.359
<v Speaker 7>It was like his eyes, yeah, his eyes, and maybe

0:24:45.480 --> 0:24:48.240
<v Speaker 7>his nose was cut out as well, or I just

0:24:48.320 --> 0:24:49.160
<v Speaker 7>remember his nose.

0:24:49.200 --> 0:24:52.399
<v Speaker 5>I remember his eyes, and I remember his nose.

0:24:53.720 --> 0:24:56.080
<v Speaker 7>I could just see from that part it was the

0:24:56.080 --> 0:24:59.240
<v Speaker 7>person that I knew as Greg Hawkin's. It was like

0:25:00.080 --> 0:25:05.520
<v Speaker 7>instant saying, what are you doing back here? Like that

0:25:05.680 --> 0:25:08.159
<v Speaker 7>was stupid of me? Like why did I say that?

0:25:10.119 --> 0:25:15.520
<v Speaker 7>He just like he stopped instant and he just sort

0:25:15.520 --> 0:25:20.679
<v Speaker 7>of like looked at me, and I just fuck, I realized,

0:25:20.720 --> 0:25:23.640
<v Speaker 7>Oh God, what did what did you say that for?

0:25:24.480 --> 0:25:27.040
<v Speaker 7>And I thought, oh shit, here it comes. It's it's

0:25:27.080 --> 0:25:32.880
<v Speaker 7>gonna be bad, Like it's gonna be worse now. But yeah,

0:25:32.880 --> 0:25:37.520
<v Speaker 7>he was, Yeah, he was definitely taken aback that I

0:25:37.640 --> 0:25:41.240
<v Speaker 7>recognized him. I can't remember what was said. But then

0:25:41.480 --> 0:25:48.840
<v Speaker 7>like from I got myself around to the side of

0:25:48.880 --> 0:25:51.760
<v Speaker 7>the bed and all the ceramic bunnies sort of like

0:25:51.800 --> 0:25:55.440
<v Speaker 7>on the ledge like this, and as I was sort

0:25:55.440 --> 0:26:00.320
<v Speaker 7>of like trying to pretend to like start to get

0:26:00.359 --> 0:26:05.520
<v Speaker 7>everything off, I don't know, I just went to the

0:26:05.560 --> 0:26:08.800
<v Speaker 7>window ledge and just in one movement, I just sort

0:26:08.800 --> 0:26:13.040
<v Speaker 7>of like I had the window in one hand and

0:26:13.640 --> 0:26:16.960
<v Speaker 7>I grabbed the biggest bunny in the other hand, and

0:26:17.040 --> 0:26:19.840
<v Speaker 7>I remember opening it and then just throwing it down

0:26:20.760 --> 0:26:25.040
<v Speaker 7>and then he he just came straight at me, and

0:26:25.119 --> 0:26:32.359
<v Speaker 7>it was just and with his fist, yeah, closed hard fist,

0:26:32.560 --> 0:26:33.840
<v Speaker 7>and I just went down.

0:26:34.000 --> 0:26:34.520
<v Speaker 5>It was like.

0:26:36.160 --> 0:26:43.040
<v Speaker 7>And I just went smacked down on the bed. And

0:26:44.640 --> 0:26:48.880
<v Speaker 7>I think he thought that because that happened at the window,

0:26:50.000 --> 0:26:53.040
<v Speaker 7>because it was the main like a main road, he

0:26:53.119 --> 0:26:56.040
<v Speaker 7>would have thought, Oh, someone's going to see that and

0:26:56.080 --> 0:26:58.560
<v Speaker 7>they're going to come up, and that's why he took

0:26:58.600 --> 0:27:03.120
<v Speaker 7>off't know, but I'm thankful that I didn't get raped

0:27:05.240 --> 0:27:07.440
<v Speaker 7>straight as soon as I sort of like went down

0:27:07.480 --> 0:27:10.880
<v Speaker 7>on the bed, because I think that's what he was thinking.

0:27:11.200 --> 0:27:15.320
<v Speaker 5>He told me to eat, like he must have got me.

0:27:15.520 --> 0:27:18.480
<v Speaker 7>I can't remember the sequence of how I physically got

0:27:18.720 --> 0:27:21.600
<v Speaker 7>from the bed and then straight into the bathroom and

0:27:22.040 --> 0:27:25.760
<v Speaker 7>I had to get under the shower and stay there.

0:27:26.960 --> 0:27:32.200
<v Speaker 7>And I remember standing there, I still had because back

0:27:32.240 --> 0:27:36.320
<v Speaker 7>then to your socks with your shoes. Yeah, anyway, so

0:27:36.400 --> 0:27:38.959
<v Speaker 7>obviously I kicked off my shoes at some point, and

0:27:39.040 --> 0:27:41.560
<v Speaker 7>I remember standing in the shower with my socks on.

0:27:41.720 --> 0:27:43.399
<v Speaker 5>So I remember that feeling of.

0:27:45.200 --> 0:27:48.240
<v Speaker 7>Not bare feet in the shower and had my socks

0:27:48.240 --> 0:27:51.360
<v Speaker 7>on and my nickers and my top and.

0:27:52.920 --> 0:27:56.000
<v Speaker 5>My face was just like wow, and I was just

0:27:56.080 --> 0:27:56.800
<v Speaker 5>in a.

0:27:56.800 --> 0:28:00.720
<v Speaker 7>Total days of what was happening, and just like like stunned,

0:28:00.840 --> 0:28:04.040
<v Speaker 7>and and then I stood under the shower for I don't,

0:28:05.040 --> 0:28:11.679
<v Speaker 7>I don't, I don't know how long, and eventually I

0:28:11.720 --> 0:28:13.960
<v Speaker 7>got out of the shower because I didn't know whether

0:28:14.000 --> 0:28:16.399
<v Speaker 7>he was still in the unit or not. And I

0:28:16.440 --> 0:28:25.160
<v Speaker 7>got out of the shower. I would yeah, I vaguely

0:28:25.240 --> 0:28:32.679
<v Speaker 7>remember going into Little Ones at Dream. I went to

0:28:32.760 --> 0:28:37.440
<v Speaker 7>the phone and I rang Triple zero and I remember

0:28:37.440 --> 0:28:40.560
<v Speaker 7>saying this stupid thing, I didn't get a squad car here,

0:28:40.840 --> 0:28:43.320
<v Speaker 7>like who says that? So after I don't know how

0:28:43.320 --> 0:28:45.440
<v Speaker 7>long I was on the phone the Triple I, but

0:28:45.840 --> 0:28:55.080
<v Speaker 7>eventually I do remember when, yeah, when there was like

0:28:55.120 --> 0:28:57.080
<v Speaker 7>the knock at the door and I was saying it

0:28:57.120 --> 0:28:57.720
<v Speaker 7>was the police.

0:28:57.800 --> 0:28:58.720
<v Speaker 5>I remember sitting there.

0:28:58.760 --> 0:29:02.000
<v Speaker 7>I remember sitting on the floor down there and like

0:29:02.200 --> 0:29:06.000
<v Speaker 7>huddled up, and I remember crying and crying and crying,

0:29:06.200 --> 0:29:09.760
<v Speaker 7>and I said I had because I wasn't game to

0:29:09.800 --> 0:29:13.600
<v Speaker 7>open the door after what had happened. And I remember saying,

0:29:14.040 --> 0:29:19.640
<v Speaker 7>how do I know it's you? And they kept on saying, well,

0:29:19.680 --> 0:29:24.360
<v Speaker 7>we're the police, And I remember asking, can you put

0:29:24.440 --> 0:29:26.840
<v Speaker 7>your badge under the door, But because it was like

0:29:26.880 --> 0:29:32.040
<v Speaker 7>a thick fireproof door, and there was carpet. They said

0:29:32.080 --> 0:29:34.960
<v Speaker 7>it wouldn't fit under the door, but I remember it

0:29:35.000 --> 0:29:43.920
<v Speaker 7>would have been a good easy, like ten minutes before

0:29:43.960 --> 0:29:48.440
<v Speaker 7>I was game enough to actually then open the door.

0:29:49.960 --> 0:29:52.200
<v Speaker 7>And there were two cops there too, uniform.

0:29:54.520 --> 0:30:02.680
<v Speaker 2>How terrified, just the whole yeah scene.

0:30:03.800 --> 0:30:13.200
<v Speaker 5>How do you feel. I haven't gone through that sequence

0:30:13.480 --> 0:30:16.600
<v Speaker 5>of events. I don't think of.

0:30:20.960 --> 0:30:24.120
<v Speaker 2>The badly Brews twenty two year old mum was taking

0:30:24.160 --> 0:30:27.480
<v Speaker 2>my police to nearby Saint Vincent's Hospital to be treated

0:30:27.560 --> 0:30:28.760
<v Speaker 2>for facial injuries.

0:30:29.040 --> 0:30:33.959
<v Speaker 7>I've always had long nails, and I think these two

0:30:34.040 --> 0:30:36.800
<v Speaker 7>nails sort of like broke in, like in the scuffle

0:30:36.960 --> 0:30:40.000
<v Speaker 7>of it all. The detective was just trying to make

0:30:40.200 --> 0:30:44.000
<v Speaker 7>light of the situation and he said, look at you.

0:30:44.000 --> 0:30:45.600
<v Speaker 5>You're black and blue.

0:30:46.000 --> 0:30:49.880
<v Speaker 7>You're lucky to be alive, and you're worrying about two

0:30:49.920 --> 0:30:53.400
<v Speaker 7>broken nails. Yeah, I remember he was like nice and

0:30:53.440 --> 0:30:57.440
<v Speaker 7>he said that. Then, like when I went and had

0:30:57.440 --> 0:31:00.760
<v Speaker 7>the X rays taken, I remember something up against my

0:31:00.960 --> 0:31:03.880
<v Speaker 7>face in order to have the X ray taken, and

0:31:03.920 --> 0:31:07.240
<v Speaker 7>I remember that hurting like crazy, and that's still to

0:31:07.280 --> 0:31:13.320
<v Speaker 7>this day hit. This area still hurts, like if you

0:31:13.440 --> 0:31:15.920
<v Speaker 7>wash your face too hard, or if you've got a

0:31:15.920 --> 0:31:18.120
<v Speaker 7>little one sitting on your lap. You know how they

0:31:18.240 --> 0:31:20.520
<v Speaker 7>tend to sort of like rock back and forward. Yeah,

0:31:20.520 --> 0:31:22.920
<v Speaker 7>the amount of times that my kids would do that.

0:31:23.120 --> 0:31:28.000
<v Speaker 7>And so as soon as I get bumped in that area, automatically,

0:31:28.400 --> 0:31:32.520
<v Speaker 7>that whole scenario of getting off the ballot, clap the

0:31:32.520 --> 0:31:36.880
<v Speaker 7>person with the baloklava and getting bashed comes instantly into

0:31:36.920 --> 0:31:40.560
<v Speaker 7>my mind. It's never anything else that that just comes

0:31:40.600 --> 0:31:45.560
<v Speaker 7>instantly into my mind. And then I'm back in that mindset,

0:31:45.640 --> 0:31:49.160
<v Speaker 7>and then it can last week's months, and I'm just

0:31:49.320 --> 0:31:54.920
<v Speaker 7>I'm flawed. I'm just I'm down for the count. I'm hyper.

0:31:55.640 --> 0:31:59.520
<v Speaker 7>And that's why I have a German Shepherd because then

0:31:59.600 --> 0:32:03.400
<v Speaker 7>I know that I can feel safe because no one

0:32:03.520 --> 0:32:05.520
<v Speaker 7>comes near you with the German Shepherd.

0:32:05.800 --> 0:32:09.600
<v Speaker 2>After being released from hospital, detectives escorted Nicole into the

0:32:09.600 --> 0:32:13.240
<v Speaker 2>city station just see if she could identify her attacker.

0:32:13.720 --> 0:32:17.000
<v Speaker 7>I remember them saying that they have to go and

0:32:17.080 --> 0:32:20.840
<v Speaker 7>have a look at the mugshots and to don't worry

0:32:22.240 --> 0:32:25.440
<v Speaker 7>if you see him in the photos.

0:32:26.080 --> 0:32:27.560
<v Speaker 5>It'll just jump right out, an't you.

0:32:27.640 --> 0:32:31.080
<v Speaker 7>And that's exactly what happened when I was looking through

0:32:31.200 --> 0:32:36.560
<v Speaker 7>all the photos, it just jumped Yeah, literally jumped and

0:32:36.600 --> 0:32:40.360
<v Speaker 7>I still have that memory of his face still to

0:32:40.440 --> 0:32:44.200
<v Speaker 7>this day, of those little photos.

0:32:44.760 --> 0:32:47.360
<v Speaker 2>The face that jumped out of that photo was Kevin

0:32:47.480 --> 0:32:54.000
<v Speaker 2>Stephen Cornwall's the man n cole knew as photographer Greg Hawkins. Coincidentally,

0:32:54.400 --> 0:32:57.400
<v Speaker 2>Greg Hawkins was also the name of Kevin's brother in law.

0:32:58.080 --> 0:33:02.320
<v Speaker 2>Kevin's Liverpool home was then raided by police. Several items

0:33:02.320 --> 0:33:06.520
<v Speaker 2>were seized, including a six inch knife, a wallet, business cards,

0:33:06.840 --> 0:33:09.640
<v Speaker 2>a blue and white stripe beanie with the word sharks

0:33:09.680 --> 0:33:12.600
<v Speaker 2>on it, sand choose, and a blue and white long

0:33:12.640 --> 0:33:16.680
<v Speaker 2>sleeve jumper. The real Greg Hawkins told police he'd given

0:33:16.800 --> 0:33:20.040
<v Speaker 2>Kevin ten of his business cards to generate new Life

0:33:20.120 --> 0:33:24.600
<v Speaker 2>insurance customers. Kevin was refused bail and sent to Long

0:33:24.680 --> 0:33:29.640
<v Speaker 2>Bay Jail on remand two weeks after Nicole's attack, a

0:33:29.680 --> 0:33:33.920
<v Speaker 2>mystery man phoned her unit. Nicole's husband answered, and this

0:33:34.080 --> 0:33:37.520
<v Speaker 2>is what he told police. These are his words, but

0:33:37.640 --> 0:33:38.440
<v Speaker 2>not his voice.

0:33:43.840 --> 0:33:46.760
<v Speaker 3>On the thirtieth of October nineteen eighty three, I was

0:33:46.800 --> 0:33:50.800
<v Speaker 3>at home with my wife when the telephone rang. I

0:33:50.880 --> 0:33:54.760
<v Speaker 3>answered it and said hello. A male voice said mister,

0:33:56.040 --> 0:33:59.880
<v Speaker 3>I said yes. He said, I want to give you

0:33:59.880 --> 0:34:03.360
<v Speaker 3>some advice about your family. I said, who are you?

0:34:04.520 --> 0:34:07.200
<v Speaker 3>He said, A maid of mine is going down because

0:34:07.240 --> 0:34:11.320
<v Speaker 3>your wife reckons he attacked her. It's bullshit. I said,

0:34:11.880 --> 0:34:15.680
<v Speaker 3>who are you? He said I was with him, mate,

0:34:16.080 --> 0:34:18.279
<v Speaker 3>half an hour after he was supposed to have done it.

0:34:18.800 --> 0:34:21.239
<v Speaker 3>He couldn't have done it. We were doing a job.

0:34:22.239 --> 0:34:25.239
<v Speaker 3>I said, why don't you give your mate Cornwall a

0:34:25.280 --> 0:34:28.360
<v Speaker 3>message from me. Tell him he'd better pray that he

0:34:28.440 --> 0:34:31.960
<v Speaker 3>stays in jail, because if he doesn't, praying won't help him.

0:34:32.960 --> 0:34:37.320
<v Speaker 3>He said, Oh, you're tough, mate, real tough. Just remember,

0:34:37.640 --> 0:34:40.080
<v Speaker 3>if your wife puts him away, you and her and

0:34:40.120 --> 0:34:42.799
<v Speaker 3>your family can take your choice of a shotgun or

0:34:42.840 --> 0:34:47.719
<v Speaker 3>broken bones. I said, look, mate, we've got no hassles

0:34:47.760 --> 0:34:50.640
<v Speaker 3>with you. Cornwell did it and he's going to wear it.

0:34:51.560 --> 0:34:55.000
<v Speaker 3>He said he didn't do anything. I told the police

0:34:55.040 --> 0:34:57.279
<v Speaker 3>that I saw him within half an hour, but they

0:34:57.280 --> 0:34:59.880
<v Speaker 3>didn't believe me. They believed you're bitch of a w

0:35:00.880 --> 0:35:04.280
<v Speaker 3>I said, listen, fuck with if you've got a problem

0:35:04.320 --> 0:35:07.520
<v Speaker 3>with me, get your ass over here now. He said,

0:35:07.960 --> 0:35:10.959
<v Speaker 3>don't worry, mate, I know where you live. You better

0:35:11.000 --> 0:35:14.520
<v Speaker 3>be ready. The door won't stop me. I'll blow it open.

0:35:15.120 --> 0:35:19.400
<v Speaker 3>I said, forget the door I'll be waiting outside. The

0:35:19.480 --> 0:35:26.239
<v Speaker 3>caller hung up. I would describe the voice on the

0:35:26.280 --> 0:35:29.960
<v Speaker 3>telephone as been that of an Australian male about twenty

0:35:29.960 --> 0:35:33.680
<v Speaker 3>five years old. His voice was educated, but he sounded

0:35:33.719 --> 0:35:37.480
<v Speaker 3>like an oka. I could hear background noises over the telephone,

0:35:37.960 --> 0:35:40.959
<v Speaker 3>like that in a hotel, but the caller didn't sound

0:35:41.000 --> 0:35:44.439
<v Speaker 3>as though he was drunk. After the call, my wife

0:35:44.480 --> 0:35:46.920
<v Speaker 3>and I were greatly upset by it, and I have

0:35:47.000 --> 0:35:50.280
<v Speaker 3>grave fears for the safety of both myself and my family.

0:35:54.960 --> 0:35:57.480
<v Speaker 2>You are now going to hear a transcript from Kevin's

0:35:57.480 --> 0:36:00.920
<v Speaker 2>recorded interview with police when he was questioned over the

0:36:01.000 --> 0:36:03.880
<v Speaker 2>armed attack on the young mum at Darlinghurst at one

0:36:04.040 --> 0:36:07.840
<v Speaker 2>forty five pm on the twenty ninth of September nineteen

0:36:07.880 --> 0:36:11.239
<v Speaker 2>eighty three. This is an actor, not the voice of

0:36:11.360 --> 0:36:12.239
<v Speaker 2>Kevin Cornwall.

0:36:13.640 --> 0:36:16.400
<v Speaker 6>At about one o'clock, I walked up to the phone

0:36:16.400 --> 0:36:20.240
<v Speaker 6>to ring the Electricity Commission about extensions of time for payment.

0:36:21.080 --> 0:36:23.440
<v Speaker 6>I walked across the road to the garage at the

0:36:23.480 --> 0:36:27.040
<v Speaker 6>end of our street and bought a newspaper, the Daily Telegraph.

0:36:27.440 --> 0:36:32.240
<v Speaker 6>I then walked home. I was home for about five minutes,

0:36:32.719 --> 0:36:35.640
<v Speaker 6>then I left and went to Liverpool to the Youth

0:36:35.680 --> 0:36:38.960
<v Speaker 6>and Community Center. I was only there for about five

0:36:39.040 --> 0:36:41.359
<v Speaker 6>minutes and then drove to a block of flats where

0:36:41.360 --> 0:36:43.880
<v Speaker 6>I knew Greg Climpson lived to get a gearbox for

0:36:44.040 --> 0:36:47.560
<v Speaker 6>a car. I went to park my car and when

0:36:47.560 --> 0:36:49.440
<v Speaker 6>a lady come up to me and asked me not

0:36:49.520 --> 0:36:51.919
<v Speaker 6>to park there as her husband was going to back

0:36:51.960 --> 0:36:55.960
<v Speaker 6>a truck onto the caravan. I moved the car to

0:36:56.040 --> 0:36:58.360
<v Speaker 6>the other side of the road and I asked that

0:36:58.440 --> 0:37:01.760
<v Speaker 6>same lady did she know Greg Clemson and what unit

0:37:01.840 --> 0:37:06.200
<v Speaker 6>he lived in. She replied no, and I said thanks, anyway,

0:37:07.040 --> 0:37:07.719
<v Speaker 6>I'll see if I.

0:37:07.680 --> 0:37:08.879
<v Speaker 5>Can find him.

0:37:09.520 --> 0:37:12.359
<v Speaker 6>I saw number five above the garage door where I'd

0:37:12.360 --> 0:37:15.920
<v Speaker 6>seen Greg working on his car previously, so I went

0:37:15.960 --> 0:37:18.040
<v Speaker 6>to Unit five and knocked on the door, but no

0:37:18.080 --> 0:37:20.840
<v Speaker 6>one answered. I went back out the front of the

0:37:20.920 --> 0:37:23.480
<v Speaker 6>units and again had a conversation with the lady I

0:37:23.520 --> 0:37:26.319
<v Speaker 6>spoke to earlier, and then I got back in my

0:37:26.400 --> 0:37:29.400
<v Speaker 6>car and headed towards home. That decided to get some

0:37:29.520 --> 0:37:31.320
<v Speaker 6>lunch from my wife and myself.

0:37:32.000 --> 0:37:35.840
<v Speaker 2>The next part of Kevin's alibi will sound extraordinarily familiar

0:37:35.920 --> 0:37:36.120
<v Speaker 2>to you.

0:37:36.760 --> 0:37:40.520
<v Speaker 6>I stopped at a take away food bar in Terminus Street, Liverpool,

0:37:40.520 --> 0:37:43.640
<v Speaker 6>where I purchased a batted save, a piece of fish,

0:37:44.239 --> 0:37:47.799
<v Speaker 6>a bag of chips, and a loaf of bread. I'd

0:37:47.840 --> 0:37:50.040
<v Speaker 6>asked the man behind the counter what sort of fish

0:37:50.040 --> 0:37:52.600
<v Speaker 6>it was, and he wrote it down on a piece

0:37:52.600 --> 0:37:55.160
<v Speaker 6>of paper, the word Hake. And he went to the

0:37:55.200 --> 0:37:57.239
<v Speaker 6>fridge and pulled out a tray of fish, and he

0:37:57.320 --> 0:38:00.520
<v Speaker 6>explained that it was the only fish he uses. I

0:38:00.600 --> 0:38:03.000
<v Speaker 6>paid from the goods and went straight home.

0:38:05.880 --> 0:38:09.719
<v Speaker 2>Kevin told police he arrived home at approximately ten past two.

0:38:10.400 --> 0:38:14.359
<v Speaker 2>Detectives interviewed witnesses connected to the address where Kevin said

0:38:14.400 --> 0:38:18.440
<v Speaker 2>he'd been on the afternoon in question. A resident by

0:38:18.440 --> 0:38:21.600
<v Speaker 2>the name of Kaylen Musgrove was shown a photograph of

0:38:21.680 --> 0:38:26.000
<v Speaker 2>Kevin and detailed her interaction with him that afternoon. She

0:38:26.120 --> 0:38:29.160
<v Speaker 2>says Kevin parked his white Holden station wagon in her

0:38:29.239 --> 0:38:33.040
<v Speaker 2>driveway and she asked him to politely move it. Kevin

0:38:33.080 --> 0:38:35.480
<v Speaker 2>then asked her if she'd seen his brother in law.

0:38:36.040 --> 0:38:39.520
<v Speaker 2>Kaylen's husband said he didn't actually know his brother in law.

0:38:40.160 --> 0:38:40.640
<v Speaker 5>She said.

0:38:40.640 --> 0:38:43.960
<v Speaker 2>The man she identified as Kevin then walked over to

0:38:44.000 --> 0:38:48.160
<v Speaker 2>his car and drove off. Kaylen Musgrove told detectives he

0:38:48.200 --> 0:38:52.879
<v Speaker 2>appeared very nervous and tense. Nicole's attack happened at one

0:38:53.000 --> 0:38:56.759
<v Speaker 2>forty five pm at Darlinghurst, which is about thirty four

0:38:56.840 --> 0:39:01.720
<v Speaker 2>kilometers away from Liverpool. It's around a fifty minute Kaylen

0:39:01.840 --> 0:39:05.800
<v Speaker 2>Musgrove said her interaction with Kevin happened between two thirty

0:39:06.200 --> 0:39:10.560
<v Speaker 2>and three pm, making it very possible Kevin could have

0:39:10.600 --> 0:39:14.240
<v Speaker 2>made it back to Liverpool in that timeframe. The service

0:39:14.239 --> 0:39:17.560
<v Speaker 2>station attendant at Liverpool was also shown a photograph of

0:39:17.640 --> 0:39:20.000
<v Speaker 2>Kevin and asked if he came in to buy a

0:39:20.040 --> 0:39:24.880
<v Speaker 2>newspaper on Thursday, the twenty ninth of September. She told police,

0:39:25.320 --> 0:39:28.360
<v Speaker 2>I don't remember what time he came in exactly, but

0:39:28.480 --> 0:39:32.719
<v Speaker 2>it was between two thirty pm and four thirty pm

0:39:32.719 --> 0:39:36.600
<v Speaker 2>that day. Remember, Kevin told police he was there just

0:39:36.719 --> 0:39:41.640
<v Speaker 2>after one pm. Kevin Stephen Cornwall, who was twenty seven

0:39:41.680 --> 0:39:45.520
<v Speaker 2>at the time, were charged with attempted sexual assault, assault

0:39:45.600 --> 0:39:50.320
<v Speaker 2>occasioning actual bodily harm, and armed robbery. Cornwall was later

0:39:50.320 --> 0:39:56.200
<v Speaker 2>committed to stand trial, and Nicole remembers his demeanor at court.

0:39:55.760 --> 0:40:00.960
<v Speaker 5>Smug, Yeah, smug and yeah, the attitude of height and

0:40:01.080 --> 0:40:01.359
<v Speaker 5>do this.

0:40:02.680 --> 0:40:06.120
<v Speaker 7>It wasn't as simple as just having to go through

0:40:06.160 --> 0:40:11.439
<v Speaker 7>that trauma of going to court, like I'd never been

0:40:11.520 --> 0:40:18.200
<v Speaker 7>inside a court ever, so to be confronted with that

0:40:19.640 --> 0:40:24.200
<v Speaker 7>is mind boggling. Anyway, it's scary, Like I was what

0:40:24.320 --> 0:40:28.360
<v Speaker 7>twenty two like, I was a kid, I was very immature,

0:40:28.480 --> 0:40:29.200
<v Speaker 7>twenty two.

0:40:30.120 --> 0:40:36.600
<v Speaker 5>Like I was a scared little what's the lowest form

0:40:36.800 --> 0:40:38.799
<v Speaker 5>of a being.

0:40:38.960 --> 0:40:41.799
<v Speaker 7>I was like a scared little aunt. I was like

0:40:41.880 --> 0:40:46.800
<v Speaker 7>I felt like nothing. And yeah, so the jury people,

0:40:46.840 --> 0:40:50.600
<v Speaker 7>I remember them looking at me and judging. And there

0:40:50.640 --> 0:40:54.720
<v Speaker 7>was one particular day I had to wear this thin, black,

0:40:55.120 --> 0:41:03.239
<v Speaker 7>tight skirt and this red off the shoulder jump up like,

0:41:03.719 --> 0:41:06.200
<v Speaker 7>I look like a tart. I look like a slap.

0:41:06.280 --> 0:41:09.440
<v Speaker 7>But that's what my ex husband did to me.

0:41:09.920 --> 0:41:13.360
<v Speaker 2>Do you think that played into the decision of the jury.

0:41:13.360 --> 0:41:14.239
<v Speaker 5>Absolutely? I do.

0:41:14.680 --> 0:41:17.799
<v Speaker 2>So why do you believe that Kevin got away with it?

0:41:18.920 --> 0:41:23.719
<v Speaker 7>Because the jury only heard about this one instance and

0:41:23.760 --> 0:41:27.920
<v Speaker 7>they've got this female sitting in front of them that,

0:41:28.280 --> 0:41:31.280
<v Speaker 7>on one particular day looked like a tart.

0:41:32.800 --> 0:41:35.480
<v Speaker 2>At the time, Nicole often felt pressure from her then

0:41:35.600 --> 0:41:38.720
<v Speaker 2>husband to dress a certain way. She thinks it affected

0:41:38.719 --> 0:41:42.120
<v Speaker 2>the outcome of the trial. Kevin Cornwall was acquitted of

0:41:42.120 --> 0:41:45.400
<v Speaker 2>all charges by the jury, just like he was in

0:41:45.440 --> 0:41:49.319
<v Speaker 2>a separate rape troll a year earlier. Fast forward to

0:41:49.360 --> 0:41:53.240
<v Speaker 2>two thousand and one, Kevin goes by the surname Correll

0:41:53.840 --> 0:41:57.160
<v Speaker 2>and he's under investigation for the murder of his twenty

0:41:57.200 --> 0:42:01.359
<v Speaker 2>three year old protege, Rachelle Charles. What went through your

0:42:01.400 --> 0:42:05.000
<v Speaker 2>mind when you heard that he'd been investigated for the

0:42:05.120 --> 0:42:08.120
<v Speaker 2>murder and suspected rape of a young woman.

0:42:08.200 --> 0:42:13.680
<v Speaker 7>I felt scared because I still it's still always obviously

0:42:14.440 --> 0:42:18.520
<v Speaker 7>you know, is he going to find me again? So yeah,

0:42:19.239 --> 0:42:23.280
<v Speaker 7>instantly I got scared from my safety. Yeah, the instant

0:42:23.400 --> 0:42:29.560
<v Speaker 7>that it came back into my life again. Yeah, I

0:42:29.600 --> 0:42:30.120
<v Speaker 7>got scared.

0:42:30.160 --> 0:42:32.560
<v Speaker 2>It's taken so much courage for you to speak out.

0:42:32.480 --> 0:42:36.719
<v Speaker 5>But it's only because I want to see justice.

0:42:37.000 --> 0:42:40.760
<v Speaker 2>Kevin Stephen Cornwall maintains his innocence and he was acquitted

0:42:40.760 --> 0:42:44.400
<v Speaker 2>by a jury in both cases. I've asked Damien Luine

0:42:44.440 --> 0:42:46.960
<v Speaker 2>to have a good look over the evidence in Jane

0:42:47.040 --> 0:42:50.000
<v Speaker 2>and Nicole's cases. Let's get his take on them.

0:42:50.200 --> 0:42:54.360
<v Speaker 10>It's all about deception. First of all. He goes to

0:42:54.880 --> 0:42:59.280
<v Speaker 10>Jane where she's placed an advertisement in the local paper

0:42:59.320 --> 0:43:06.000
<v Speaker 10>for someone to share a house on the pretense of

0:43:06.120 --> 0:43:10.480
<v Speaker 10>doing that, and she's violently assaulted. So after the attack,

0:43:10.560 --> 0:43:15.440
<v Speaker 10>he allegedly tells the victim Jane to shower. Now you

0:43:15.560 --> 0:43:18.440
<v Speaker 10>have to look at the reasons why he's asking for

0:43:18.480 --> 0:43:22.040
<v Speaker 10>that to happen, and it's perhaps maybe of the DNA

0:43:22.160 --> 0:43:26.600
<v Speaker 10>contamination that he may be afraid of. With the second victim, Nicole,

0:43:27.680 --> 0:43:31.760
<v Speaker 10>he's posed as a photographer. Now this is again deception.

0:43:32.200 --> 0:43:35.600
<v Speaker 10>He provided a business card with a name, and Nichole

0:43:36.239 --> 0:43:38.719
<v Speaker 10>immediately recognized who he was. He was a person who

0:43:38.719 --> 0:43:41.879
<v Speaker 10>had been there before, pretending to be the photographer. Now

0:43:41.880 --> 0:43:43.880
<v Speaker 10>again we have deception on this part.

0:43:44.080 --> 0:43:46.839
<v Speaker 2>How much weight do you give when they point out

0:43:46.880 --> 0:43:48.840
<v Speaker 2>someone in mugshots?

0:43:49.480 --> 0:43:52.799
<v Speaker 10>Photograph identification is very difficult to say, at the very

0:43:52.880 --> 0:43:58.760
<v Speaker 10>least in investigation phases. However, you have to really believe

0:43:58.800 --> 0:44:01.480
<v Speaker 10>what the victim and it is telling you if they

0:44:01.560 --> 0:44:04.080
<v Speaker 10>recognize that person, and sometimes you can just see it

0:44:04.080 --> 0:44:07.759
<v Speaker 10>in their eyes when they're perusing the photo identification and

0:44:07.800 --> 0:44:10.000
<v Speaker 10>normally it's done on my laptop back in that area

0:44:10.160 --> 0:44:14.399
<v Speaker 10>was done with mugshots basically, and you can see their

0:44:14.440 --> 0:44:18.480
<v Speaker 10>reactions straight away when and their eyes dilate, you can

0:44:18.480 --> 0:44:23.680
<v Speaker 10>see that the body become tense, their movements, ay sweat,

0:44:24.360 --> 0:44:26.680
<v Speaker 10>and you can obviously see the fear coming out inn't them,

0:44:27.239 --> 0:44:30.200
<v Speaker 10>And to me, that was always a firm belief that

0:44:30.719 --> 0:44:35.400
<v Speaker 10>the person who's pointing out this offender to me is believable,

0:44:35.480 --> 0:44:38.160
<v Speaker 10>and that's the offender that's been involved in the attack.

0:44:38.600 --> 0:44:43.640
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's a likelihood that two women could mistakenly point

0:44:43.680 --> 0:44:45.759
<v Speaker 2>out Kevin in a mug shot.

0:44:47.160 --> 0:44:50.000
<v Speaker 10>Well, this is very difficult to believe. I firmly believe

0:44:50.080 --> 0:44:56.120
<v Speaker 10>that if two women have identified him in mugshot identification,

0:44:57.360 --> 0:45:01.960
<v Speaker 10>then Kevin has got some problems because they can identify

0:45:02.080 --> 0:45:06.759
<v Speaker 10>him and they've pointed the finger saying he's a person responsible.

0:45:07.280 --> 0:45:11.760
<v Speaker 10>It's unlikely that would happen. I've never seen it. I've

0:45:11.800 --> 0:45:15.799
<v Speaker 10>seen people pick out the same person in photograph identification

0:45:16.200 --> 0:45:19.640
<v Speaker 10>and you're just building up your evidence against this person.

0:45:20.400 --> 0:45:23.920
<v Speaker 10>And for two people who don't know each other to

0:45:24.160 --> 0:45:28.080
<v Speaker 10>point him out is somewhat great evidence for the prosecution.

0:45:28.280 --> 0:45:31.720
<v Speaker 2>In those cases. Well, in all of the cases against Kevin,

0:45:31.800 --> 0:45:32.960
<v Speaker 2>he was acquitted.

0:45:34.600 --> 0:45:35.600
<v Speaker 5>What are your thoughts on that?

0:45:36.000 --> 0:45:38.319
<v Speaker 10>Look difficult to say why he was acquitted and the

0:45:38.320 --> 0:45:41.400
<v Speaker 10>reasons why. Now it's the onus of the prosecution to

0:45:41.520 --> 0:45:44.200
<v Speaker 10>prove otherwise, and that can be difficult at the best

0:45:44.200 --> 0:45:47.920
<v Speaker 10>of times, and sometimes the victims when they're giving examination

0:45:48.120 --> 0:45:53.360
<v Speaker 10>or they're under cross examination, may withhold some information because

0:45:53.719 --> 0:45:59.560
<v Speaker 10>they're embarrassed by what's happened. They're afraid, and it's difficult.

0:46:00.560 --> 0:46:03.120
<v Speaker 10>You really have to think. You the prosecution, and it

0:46:03.160 --> 0:46:05.919
<v Speaker 10>is always on the owners of the prosecution to prove

0:46:06.000 --> 0:46:10.520
<v Speaker 10>the offenses. And it does happen, you know, sometimes we

0:46:11.160 --> 0:46:13.640
<v Speaker 10>just don't get the verdict we want, even though we

0:46:13.760 --> 0:46:14.800
<v Speaker 10>know we've got the right person.

0:46:15.239 --> 0:46:18.920
<v Speaker 2>Are there any similarities in Kevin's alibi in all the

0:46:19.080 --> 0:46:21.640
<v Speaker 2>historical matters he's been investigated over.

0:46:22.840 --> 0:46:26.960
<v Speaker 10>Absolutely, and they're nearly all identical. And I'll go back

0:46:26.960 --> 0:46:30.600
<v Speaker 10>to on the night that Rachelle left the Camden Hole

0:46:30.760 --> 0:46:34.440
<v Speaker 10>and to go to somewhere, he says he went shopping

0:46:34.440 --> 0:46:38.799
<v Speaker 10>into Campbelltown. He visited his girlfriend home it picked it,

0:46:38.840 --> 0:46:41.560
<v Speaker 10>but she wasn't there. Then, he says, and this is

0:46:41.600 --> 0:46:44.960
<v Speaker 10>where it rings alarm bells to me. He went to

0:46:45.000 --> 0:46:48.520
<v Speaker 10>grab some fish and chips and a battered tarmor and

0:46:48.600 --> 0:46:52.279
<v Speaker 10>he also visited a service station that night. Now, this

0:46:52.400 --> 0:46:57.600
<v Speaker 10>alibi is similar to something that happened eighteen years earlier,

0:46:58.200 --> 0:47:02.240
<v Speaker 10>and Kevin was questioned over his movements following us sexually

0:47:02.239 --> 0:47:05.000
<v Speaker 10>a vaded attack on a young woman and Daly host.

0:47:05.719 --> 0:47:08.719
<v Speaker 10>Now he told Plus it wasn't him. He said, I

0:47:08.880 --> 0:47:11.719
<v Speaker 10>was getting fish and chips. That and I ordered a

0:47:11.760 --> 0:47:14.719
<v Speaker 10>battered save piece of fish, bag of chips, and a

0:47:14.800 --> 0:47:18.399
<v Speaker 10>loaf of bread. Now, let's go back to the night

0:47:18.480 --> 0:47:22.560
<v Speaker 10>that Rachelle disappeared. He went to grab some fish and

0:47:22.600 --> 0:47:27.239
<v Speaker 10>chips and about it saber turmoil in another matter, and

0:47:27.280 --> 0:47:29.040
<v Speaker 10>this is the case where a young man was raped

0:47:29.080 --> 0:47:32.960
<v Speaker 10>at punch bowl. He says he was getting takeaway. Now

0:47:33.760 --> 0:47:36.160
<v Speaker 10>you have to ask, is there a common thread here

0:47:36.960 --> 0:47:39.000
<v Speaker 10>or does he just like his greasy food.

0:47:45.640 --> 0:47:49.120
<v Speaker 2>Rachelle's sister, Christie is incredibly grateful to both Jane and

0:47:49.239 --> 0:47:52.759
<v Speaker 2>Nicole for sharing their stories with me. To shine a

0:47:52.840 --> 0:47:57.040
<v Speaker 2>light on Rochelle's case, Christy recorded a video message for

0:47:57.120 --> 0:47:59.120
<v Speaker 2>both women which I played to them.

0:48:00.280 --> 0:48:04.680
<v Speaker 8>I just wanted to pass on how thankful we are

0:48:04.800 --> 0:48:10.720
<v Speaker 8>here at team Sheell. My mum also passes on her thanks. Honestly,

0:48:10.760 --> 0:48:13.719
<v Speaker 8>we cannot thank you enough. I really hope that what

0:48:13.760 --> 0:48:15.799
<v Speaker 8>you've done today hasn't opened.

0:48:15.520 --> 0:48:17.760
<v Speaker 5>Up too many old wounds.

0:48:17.800 --> 0:48:23.160
<v Speaker 8>I'm sure that it has, But you are so incredibly brave,

0:48:23.680 --> 0:48:25.960
<v Speaker 8>and even though I don't know you, I am just

0:48:26.080 --> 0:48:29.920
<v Speaker 8>so proud of you. We need to stand up and

0:48:29.960 --> 0:48:33.640
<v Speaker 8>we need to stand together. And even though I can't

0:48:33.880 --> 0:48:36.680
<v Speaker 8>know you or see you or meet you, know that

0:48:36.719 --> 0:48:40.920
<v Speaker 8>I stand with you and I just think that you're incredible.

0:48:41.200 --> 0:48:45.560
<v Speaker 8>Thank you so much for helping us give Shell a voice.

0:48:45.719 --> 0:48:50.000
<v Speaker 8>And even though it would have been really painful, I'm

0:48:50.040 --> 0:48:54.279
<v Speaker 8>sure I hope that you feel empowered, and thank you

0:48:54.320 --> 0:48:55.920
<v Speaker 8>for helping us to empower Chelle.

0:48:56.640 --> 0:49:00.920
<v Speaker 5>If I was there, i'd give you a massive hug. Honestly,

0:49:00.920 --> 0:49:01.760
<v Speaker 5>I have no words.

0:49:02.280 --> 0:49:07.799
<v Speaker 8>Thank you so much, and I hope you're okay.

0:49:10.760 --> 0:49:13.200
<v Speaker 2>How did you feel listening to that message?

0:49:13.520 --> 0:49:17.320
<v Speaker 4>It's beautiful. I hope she gets justice for a sister.

0:49:17.400 --> 0:49:17.920
<v Speaker 4>I really do.

0:49:18.760 --> 0:49:20.080
<v Speaker 5>I feel quite empowered.

0:49:20.400 --> 0:49:26.000
<v Speaker 7>And yeah, if you need anything else that could help, yeah,

0:49:26.040 --> 0:49:28.960
<v Speaker 7>I'm more than happy because yeah, I feel different.

0:49:29.239 --> 0:49:29.759
<v Speaker 5>I'm all good.

0:49:30.040 --> 0:49:32.920
<v Speaker 2>We're all so grateful for you being so brave at

0:49:32.920 --> 0:49:35.040
<v Speaker 2>this stage in your life. You didn't have to speak

0:49:35.040 --> 0:49:37.440
<v Speaker 2>to me, you didn't have to share your story. It

0:49:37.440 --> 0:49:40.160
<v Speaker 2>would have been easier for you to just hang up

0:49:40.160 --> 0:49:40.640
<v Speaker 2>the phone.

0:49:41.200 --> 0:49:44.040
<v Speaker 4>You can't do that when something like this happens, because

0:49:44.080 --> 0:49:47.319
<v Speaker 4>you've got to got to don't let him scare you.

0:49:47.600 --> 0:49:48.520
<v Speaker 5>The other women.

0:49:48.680 --> 0:49:49.240
<v Speaker 1>Full sure.

0:49:49.760 --> 0:49:53.080
<v Speaker 5>I have full confidence in that telling you you need justice.

0:49:53.600 --> 0:49:55.799
<v Speaker 4>She needs justice, that young girl, And.

0:49:55.719 --> 0:49:58.040
<v Speaker 2>Like Christy says, we have to stand together.

0:49:58.880 --> 0:50:00.400
<v Speaker 5>Yep, all of us.

0:50:00.520 --> 0:50:00.919
<v Speaker 7>The better.

0:50:06.000 --> 0:50:07.200
<v Speaker 5>I would want to do anything.

0:50:09.480 --> 0:50:11.920
<v Speaker 4>I just want to help her.

0:50:12.640 --> 0:50:16.080
<v Speaker 5>Thank you again for being so kind to me. That

0:50:16.239 --> 0:50:17.600
<v Speaker 5>was very difficult.

0:50:19.600 --> 0:50:22.759
<v Speaker 4>He's not going to ever scare me again. You can

0:50:22.840 --> 0:50:24.279
<v Speaker 4>run away, but you can't hide.

0:50:28.880 --> 0:50:33.719
<v Speaker 2>On the next episode of Dear Rochelle.

0:50:33.960 --> 0:50:39.319
<v Speaker 9>I met Kevin at a singles night. He told me

0:50:39.400 --> 0:50:41.280
<v Speaker 9>that he was a psychologist.

0:50:42.640 --> 0:50:46.120
<v Speaker 4>Alice had received phone calls from a gentleman who was

0:50:46.280 --> 0:50:50.279
<v Speaker 4>a previous partner that he had the house bugged. I said,

0:50:50.520 --> 0:50:51.919
<v Speaker 4>you just keep right away.

0:50:52.120 --> 0:50:54.000
<v Speaker 5>He'd have his friends take care of me. I'd be

0:50:54.040 --> 0:50:55.280
<v Speaker 5>dead by the end of the month.

0:50:55.640 --> 0:50:59.239
<v Speaker 9>And with that he said, you're just a prattease and

0:50:59.400 --> 0:51:01.440
<v Speaker 9>one of these is they going to find you slip

0:51:01.480 --> 0:51:03.399
<v Speaker 9>from the fanny to the throat in a car park.

0:51:03.520 --> 0:51:17.280
<v Speaker 2>Debt de Rochelle is a multimedia production from True Crime Australia.

0:51:17.400 --> 0:51:19.120
<v Speaker 2>If you want to be the first to find out

0:51:19.160 --> 0:51:22.760
<v Speaker 2>what happens next, go to deroshell dot com dot au.

0:51:23.040 --> 0:51:26.799
<v Speaker 2>That's where News Corp Australia Subscribers get early access to

0:51:26.880 --> 0:51:31.480
<v Speaker 2>podcast episodes and breaking news in our live investigation before

0:51:31.640 --> 0:51:36.560
<v Speaker 2>anybody else, and you'll also find exclusive videos, interactive evidence,

0:51:36.800 --> 0:51:40.400
<v Speaker 2>feature articles and more. That's deroshell dot com dot a U,

0:51:40.760 --> 0:51:43.920
<v Speaker 2>d E A R R A C h E W

0:51:44.120 --> 0:51:46.480
<v Speaker 2>l E dot com dot a U. If you have

0:51:46.560 --> 0:51:50.720
<v Speaker 2>any tips or confidential information to share with me, Ashley Hanson,

0:51:51.000 --> 0:51:54.360
<v Speaker 2>please send an email to Deroshelle at news dot com

0:51:54.400 --> 0:51:58.520
<v Speaker 2>dot AU. Our supervising producer and audio editor is Reese Gunter,

0:51:58.920 --> 0:52:03.440
<v Speaker 2>Rachel Fountain, Executive producer and audio director. Our executive editor

0:52:03.520 --> 0:52:07.399
<v Speaker 2>is Sarah Blake. Our senior journalist is Patrick Carline. Video

0:52:07.600 --> 0:52:11.240
<v Speaker 2>editors are Gillian McNally, Owen Yang and Stephen Woods. Picture

0:52:11.360 --> 0:52:14.360
<v Speaker 2>editors are Jeff dr Mannan and Christy Miller. Senior camera

0:52:14.400 --> 0:52:17.800
<v Speaker 2>operators are Daniel Andrews and Oscar Viera, with sound designed

0:52:17.800 --> 0:52:21.560
<v Speaker 2>by Martin Perolta. Thanks also to Greg Thompson and Lennie Paneraz,

0:52:21.719 --> 0:52:27.200
<v Speaker 2>Show Burreo Fayguld, Vanessa Grabb, Hailey Goddard, Stephen Grice, Charlotte Carp,

0:52:27.520 --> 0:52:31.200
<v Speaker 2>Tina Coggins, and Harry Hughes. Special thanks to the Daily

0:52:31.239 --> 0:52:34.560
<v Speaker 2>Telegraph editor Ben English and dear Rochelle would not be

0:52:34.640 --> 0:52:38.000
<v Speaker 2>possible without the help, and I'm waivering support of Christian

0:52:38.040 --> 0:52:43.360
<v Speaker 2>Ann Childs, Mindy Wicks, Damien Loon and Rachelle's friends. This

0:52:43.520 --> 0:52:47.600
<v Speaker 2>podcast series is hosted and investigated by me Ashley Hanson