1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:03,360 Speaker 1: I think the person who killed her will be worried 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 1: about this podcast and the new attention, media attention and 3 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: local attention back on it. I think given that they 4 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: would have experienced this anxiety which we see through the haste, 5 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: I think it will reignite that anxiety. I think that 6 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: once this comes out, this podcast comes out, and there's 7 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: media coverage, I think the person will become worried again. 8 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:44,520 Speaker 1: They'll probably be a bit cocky because they've got away 9 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 1: with it for a long time, but in the back 10 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: of mind they'll be going, oh, people could still talk, 11 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:54,279 Speaker 1: because this is not the kind of offender would keep 12 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: his mouth shut. I think he's spoken in some way 13 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: about it. May not have said I killed her, but 14 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: he may have said things about the crime, things about 15 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: the car, things about the handbag and the shoes that 16 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: could just stand out to someone who heard it. And 17 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: it's those people that the investigation needs to come forward. 18 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 2: That's Grizzilling's worth. An FBI trained criminal profiler who investigated 19 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 2: Rochelle's murder in two thousand and three, I'm Ashley Hanson. 20 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,320 Speaker 2: This is episode six of Dear Rochelle, a podcast by 21 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 2: True Crime Australia. 22 00:01:57,440 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: I think this offender would have a domestic bolence history, 23 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: maybe not then, and with the domestic ans, it would 24 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: be that he did impulsive, reactive type of violence. With 25 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:13,079 Speaker 1: that kind of violence, you'd also see coursive control behaviors 26 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: as well, monitoring of the partner, keeping control without not 27 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: handling situations, not experiencing a strong sense of control over 28 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: the person so constantly trying to get control, and those 29 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: kind of people often can't hold down a job either 30 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: because they're reactive. I think this person would have a 31 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 1: more unstable relationship history, unstable employment history simply because of 32 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 1: his personality traits. 33 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 2: Do you think the person responsible had a history of 34 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 2: sexual violence? 35 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:47,239 Speaker 3: Yeah. 36 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: I think he would have forced himself onto other women, 37 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 1: and I don't think this was the first time he's 38 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: ever done that. What scenes to have happened is that 39 00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 1: he and Rochelle were interacting with one another, probably for 40 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: at least an hour on maybe two hours or so, 41 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,959 Speaker 1: and at some point defender has decided, well, you know, 42 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: I want sex, and iss forced to do it. He 43 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: may have tried to convince her and maybe something's happened consensually, 44 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 1: perhaps or maybe the entire event was forceful. 45 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 2: We don't know at this point, so potentially a highly 46 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 2: compulsive sex offender. 47 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 1: Yes, someone who's going to act out and feel some 48 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: kind of entitlement also over women, and probably is quite misogynistic. 49 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 2: I'd expect the man that Chris Sillings wor just profiled 50 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 2: bears a resemblance to the prime suspect in Rochelle's murder, 51 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 2: her boss, Kevin Stephen Carrell. Kevin strenuously denies any involvement 52 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 2: in Rochelle's death. He has willingly participated in three records 53 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 2: of interview with police, including giving a detailed account of 54 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 2: his movements on the seventh of June two thousand and one, 55 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 2: although he did not have any alibi witnesses to back 56 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 2: him up on Neil inquest was held into Rochelle's death. 57 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 2: At the end of the inquest in two thousand and eight, 58 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 2: the coroner made an open finding in relation to Rochelle's 59 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 2: death and True Crime Australia is not saying he is 60 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:16,039 Speaker 2: guilty of any crimes, just that there are reasonable grounds 61 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 2: for suspecting he committed rapes in the past that he 62 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 2: was charged with, and reasonable grounds to suspect he may 63 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 2: have been involved in Rochelle's murder. Remember, Kevin changed his 64 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 2: name from Cornwall to Correll sometime before he arrived at 65 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 2: Camden Holden. You're about to meet two brave women who 66 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 2: survived being attacked at knife point in the nineteen eighties. 67 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:49,279 Speaker 2: They identified Kevin Cornwall as their attacker that he was 68 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 2: later acquitted in both cases. When not using the women's 69 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 2: real names, just a heads up, You're about to hear 70 00:04:56,560 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 2: survivor accounts of sexual violence that some listener as may 71 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 2: find upsetting. Pay attention to the alibi Kevin gives police 72 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 2: when questioned over each of the attacks. Jane Ashley, there 73 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 2: are you going? 74 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 3: Oh nice? 75 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 4: I just said I'm looking at your picture up the 76 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 4: game to make sure that I got you. 77 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 2: So, Jane, take me back to November nineteen eighty. You're 78 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 2: a mom of two young boys. What was your life like? 79 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:24,840 Speaker 2: What were you up to? 80 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,040 Speaker 4: My life was good and I had a four year 81 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 4: old and a six year old and had a lovely 82 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 4: boyfriend and. 83 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 5: Life was good. 84 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 2: And where were you living? 85 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 4: I was living in punch Bowl. 86 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 2: I understand you put an ad in the paper. 87 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 4: Yes, we put an ad in the paper. We had 88 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 4: my sister living there beforehand, and she moved out so 89 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 4: we wanted somebody else to rent to help us get 90 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 4: the rent up. So we put an ad in the 91 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 4: paper for someone to rent the room. 92 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 2: And did you get much of a response from that ad? 93 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 4: Yes, we got a response from a young man that 94 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 4: came by it six o'clock night and then came back 95 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 4: later on. 96 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 2: Do you remember that man and do you remember him 97 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 2: first coming to the house and looking at the house? 98 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 4: Yes, I remember him coming in to have a look 99 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 4: at the room and the kitchen in the lound room, 100 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 4: and I remember him coming back. 101 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 2: When he was looking in the house and talking to you. 102 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 2: Did you feel uneasy at any stage about his visit? 103 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 4: No, not at all. He's quite nice. 104 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 2: Was he interacting with the kids? 105 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,799 Speaker 4: The kids were in bed, both my children in bed 106 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 4: at that stage. 107 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:42,359 Speaker 2: Kevin Cornwill admits he did go to Jane's house a 108 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 2: punch bowl in Western Sydney on the evening of the 109 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 2: nineteenth of November nineteen eighty to check out that room 110 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 2: she was advertising to rent. Detectives found Jane's address written 111 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 2: on a piece of paper in his pocket. Detectives asked 112 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 2: Kevin if the handwriting on the paper was his, and 113 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 2: this is what he told them. 114 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 6: Yes, but how do you know it was made? 115 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 2: These are Kevin's words, voiced by an actor. 116 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 6: I drive to Liverpool and stopped at the shopping center. 117 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 6: I bought tea there and a takeaway food bar and 118 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 6: took the meal home. I had a conversation with a 119 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 6: girl there. 120 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:22,559 Speaker 2: He knows Kevin's mother and his wife at the time 121 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 2: gave evidence during the trial to support Kevin's alibi. We've 122 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 2: beat Kevin's former wife's name to protect her identity. 123 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 4: He returned later that night and I was walking down 124 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 4: the harse to sh reshow him the loudrym and that he. 125 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 5: Pulled a knife on me. 126 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 4: And what happened next, and then he proceeded to tell 127 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 4: me that if I didn't do what he said, he 128 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 4: would kill my kids. We both were sleeping in the 129 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 4: front room, which he knew they were because I told 130 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 4: him the first time. So I did what he said, 131 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 4: and he raped. 132 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 2: Me, Jane says, with a knife to her throat. He 133 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 2: ordered her into the lounge room and told her to undress. 134 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 2: Kevin allegedly told her he killed a cop and raped 135 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:19,119 Speaker 2: a woman before, and he wouldn't hesitate in killing her 136 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 2: or her children. During the attack, the doorbell rang. It 137 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 2: was another man interested in the room for rant. That 138 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 2: witness said, a man he knew as Kevin Cornwall answered 139 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 2: the door and said, she's not here. She's been called 140 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 2: away to the country. Her boyfriend has been killed in 141 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:42,679 Speaker 2: a car smash. The witness also told police he recognized 142 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 2: Kevin from his local club. What do you remember about 143 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:49,559 Speaker 2: his demeanor? 144 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 4: Really just mechanical. 145 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 5: Just do this, do that? 146 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 4: Just mechanical. He wasn't there that long, probably half an 147 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 4: hour or so. Do this, do that? Get in the shower. Well, 148 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 4: it's like looking in to somebody's eyes and you can 149 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 4: see their soul. He hasn't got one. He's just there's 150 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 4: nothing there. It's like he'd just done it so many 151 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 4: times before and it just to go ahead and rape 152 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 4: at his pleasure. And after the rape, he told me 153 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 4: to get into the shower, stand there and not come 154 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 4: out for half an hour. 155 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 2: When was the moment that you realized he'd left and 156 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 2: you'd survived this? 157 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 4: When I heard the door click. My shower was out 158 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,959 Speaker 4: the back and the door was opening the shower, and 159 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 4: I heard the front door because it was a long hallway, 160 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 4: I heard the front door click, and that's when I 161 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:00,040 Speaker 4: got out and checked on my Chho. 162 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 5: Children, you must have ruand him there. 163 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 4: So with the lock on the door, couldn't afford to 164 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 4: fall apart because I had children. So I just rang 165 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 4: my sister and said, come and get me. There's something's happened. 166 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 2: I was going through your mind when this had all unfolded. 167 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 4: Why just why, why would you do that to a 168 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 4: mother of two kids? That's why would you threaten two 169 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 4: children that could never hurt you. He just knew what 170 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 4: to say, especially when he rang me back up again. 171 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 4: When he rang me, he said, if you report me, 172 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 4: I will come back and kill you and your children. 173 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 4: It was like, had it all been rehearsed before? 174 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 2: What do you remember about those threats that he said 175 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 2: to you? 176 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 4: Just said he. I just knew that he was never 177 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:58,679 Speaker 4: going to stop by the way he threatened me. So 178 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 4: I knew I had to do something, and so I 179 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 4: told the police. 180 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 2: You called your sister, Yeah, she must have raced over. 181 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 4: She did, Yeah, she came over. We bundled the kids 182 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 4: into the car and we went off to the police 183 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:16,559 Speaker 4: station and I told him my story. And they were 184 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:22,319 Speaker 4: terrific detectives that took on the case, and they then 185 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 4: I went to the hospital and my sister took the 186 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,680 Speaker 4: children to her place and stayed with them, and the 187 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 4: hospital was great. Then I went back to the police 188 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 4: station and started looking through some mugshots, hundreds and hundreds 189 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 4: and hundreds of mug shots. Couldn't tell you how many 190 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 4: were there. And then I found him. Just when I 191 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 4: was just about to give up and say I can't 192 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 4: look at any more, I found his face and showed 193 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 4: the police. 194 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 2: And what was it about that photo that you recognized 195 00:11:58,760 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 2: of your attacker. 196 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 4: You couldn't forget his face. He had a mile between 197 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 4: his eyes, and you just could not forget his face anyway, 198 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 4: because it only happened a couple of hours before then, 199 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 4: So it was so fresh in my mind. And I'll 200 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 4: never forget him. I'll never forget him ever, but he'll 201 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 4: never be a part of my life. 202 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 2: What stood out to me when I saw archive footage 203 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:28,319 Speaker 2: of Kevin attending Rochelle's inquest in two thousand and six 204 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 2: is he did have a distinctive bump or raised growth 205 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 2: like a mole in the middle of his forehead. However, 206 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 2: in the most recent photos of Kevin captured through our investigation, 207 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 2: the growth is no longer visible to see images of 208 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 2: Kevin head to our website. Dear Rochelle dot com. 209 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 7: Do I you. 210 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 2: And when you told the police this is him, this 211 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 2: is the man who attacked me. What did they say? 212 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 4: They knew him, they knew exactly what his mo was like. 213 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 4: And as I told them that he'd come and answered 214 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 4: an ad in the paper for a room for rent, 215 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:09,079 Speaker 4: and they said, that's exactactly his mo o. He's done 216 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 4: it before they knew who he was, and they went 217 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 4: out after him. 218 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 2: And you pushed through that fear and you went to 219 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 2: court and faced him in court after he was charged 220 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 2: with your rape. It was nineteen eighty two, just over 221 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 2: a year after the attack, and Kevin Stephen Cornwall was 222 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 2: on trial for your rape. Can you tell me about 223 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 2: that trial? 224 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 4: Not anything I'd wish on anybody, because you have to 225 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,679 Speaker 4: prove that he's done it, and they bring up all 226 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 4: your past, which I was told before and before I 227 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 4: went to court, and was still prepared to go to 228 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 4: stop a monster and. 229 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 2: Take your time. It's okay. 230 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 4: Anyway. I tried to get through it. And when the 231 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 4: court case was over and the jury couldn't come to 232 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 4: a decision, I just told them that he'd never stop. 233 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 2: You told me jury that, yep. 234 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 5: I just. 235 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 2: To think about you going through that trial and then 236 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 2: bringing up your past. What were they bringing. 237 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 4: Up when I was fourteen years old? I was in 238 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 4: a girl's home, which had nothing to do with this. 239 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 4: I mean I was twenty three years old now and 240 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 4: my life was great, and all they did was bring 241 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 4: up my past and nothing about him, which very unfair. 242 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 2: You felt like you were on trial. 243 00:14:58,520 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 8: Yep. 244 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 4: Ye, that's what they made you feel like, especially his lawyer. 245 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 2: There was a man who gave evidence that came to 246 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 2: the door that night during your attack, and he gave 247 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 2: evidence and recognized Kevin from the club. So there were 248 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 2: two people that positively identified him, and yet he still 249 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 2: got away with it. 250 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 5: Yes, he certainly did. 251 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 4: It's very hard to convince a jury to put somebody 252 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 4: away that's done something so horrendous. But I don't know 253 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 4: why they didn't. 254 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 2: Kevin admits to being at the home that night to 255 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 2: inspect the property, but he denied that he returned and 256 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 2: said that there was a man of European appearance at 257 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 2: the property. Could you have been mistaken? 258 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 5: Never? 259 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 4: I could not mistake that face ever, And as I said, 260 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 4: I went through hundreds and hundreds of photos, so many 261 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 4: that they were all starting to blur into one until 262 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 4: I was just about to give up, and there he was. 263 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 4: So there's no way I can mistake that face. 264 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 2: Did you regret going to court? 265 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 4: No, never regretted it, Never regretted it all. I was 266 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 4: hoping that at least if they'd put him away for 267 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 4: a while, he couldn't hurt anybody else. But as I said, 268 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 4: he will never stop, ever, ever stop until they put 269 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 4: him away. 270 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 2: Is that what drove you to take it all the 271 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 2: way to court was your fear of him hurting other women? 272 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 4: Yes, that's exactly why I took it to court because 273 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 4: I didn't want anybody else to have to go through 274 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 4: what I went through. And obviously he seeks out people 275 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 4: with children so that he can have that get threat 276 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 4: against them, to say I will hurt you and your children, 277 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 4: and any mother is not going to get their child hurt. 278 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 4: So but that's what he wants. He wants you to 279 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 4: do that. He wants you to think, oh, come back, 280 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 4: but don't let him get it over here. 281 00:16:57,840 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 2: How old are you now and do you ever think 282 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 2: back to that night that you were attacked. 283 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 4: I'm sixty seven years old, and I don't give him 284 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:08,920 Speaker 4: any thought because he's not going to take over my life. 285 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 4: I just forget him because he's not worth anything. He's 286 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 4: just a speck of nothing. 287 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,400 Speaker 2: He now goes by the name of Kevin Stephen Carrell. 288 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 2: Have you ever heard of that name before? 289 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 4: No? No, never heard of it. 290 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:30,119 Speaker 2: His name was made public in and around after Rochelle's 291 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 2: death because he was named as a suspect in her 292 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:37,119 Speaker 2: inquest in two thousand and six. Of course, you wouldn't 293 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 2: have known and put two and two together because you 294 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 2: knew him as Kevin Cornwall. 295 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:43,440 Speaker 4: Yep, Kevin Stephen Cornwall. 296 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 2: What was your reaction when I told you that he 297 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 2: changed his name. 298 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 4: You can run away, but you can't hide. I don't 299 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 4: know what to say. He doesn't scare me at all anymore, 300 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 4: not one bit. 301 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 2: Kevin maintains his innocence and was acquitted by a jury 302 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 2: and his alibi. He stopped at a shopping center in Liverpool, 303 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 2: and he also went to a takeaway food shop where 304 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:16,679 Speaker 2: he picked up dinner. Jane isn't the only woman to 305 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 2: accuse Kevin Stephen Cornwall of a sexually motivated attack. There 306 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,399 Speaker 2: are four women we know about, and he's going to 307 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 2: hear from other alleged victims, but it's important to stress. 308 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,919 Speaker 2: Kevin pleaded not guilty to all charges, and he was 309 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 2: later acquitted by four separate juries. Three years after Jane 310 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:40,160 Speaker 2: was raped, police were hunting the perpetrator of an alarmingly 311 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 2: similar crime, this time in the inner Sydney suburb of 312 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 2: Darlinghurst in nineteen eighty three. Here's the ad that was 313 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:50,880 Speaker 2: placed in the classified section of the Daily Telegraph that year. 314 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 5: Stunning blonde Gold Coast model available for fashion and figure 315 00:18:57,359 --> 00:18:59,399 Speaker 5: photography phone this number. 316 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 2: Three has lad. I've just flown in to meet that model. 317 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 2: We'll call her Nicole. She's accompanied by her giant German 318 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 2: shepherd to pick me up from the airport. 319 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 5: Alrighty, I'm as nervous as said. 320 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 7: Yeah, it's okay, Yeah, come on, puppy. 321 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 2: Two weeks before the attack, a man who called himself 322 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 2: Greg Hawkins responded to Nicole's ad and visited her Darlinghurst 323 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 2: unit to discuss a photo shoot. He claimed he was 324 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:49,200 Speaker 2: a photographer wanting to book her for a semi nude shoot. 325 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 2: During the visit, Nicole says he asked her to show 326 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:57,440 Speaker 2: him her body. She refused, demanding he provide more information 327 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 2: and identification, but he could only produce a business card 328 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 2: with the name Greek Hawkins printed on it. Nicole says 329 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 2: he used his finger to cover the bottom of the 330 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 2: business card. On that occasion, he left without incident. Two 331 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 2: weeks later, she answered the door to a monster. It's 332 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 2: been forty years, but Nicole's memory of that day she 333 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 2: was attacked while her eleven month old baby boy slept 334 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 2: in his cot is vivid. 335 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 7: We were going to be going downtown and I was 336 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,919 Speaker 7: going to buy a high chair because I had some 337 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:35,120 Speaker 7: money that I could go buy his high chair, and 338 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 7: that's why he was asleep, and I was all dressed 339 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 7: and ready, and I was just waiting for him to 340 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:43,679 Speaker 7: wake up and then we're going to go downtown. So 341 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 7: when I when a knock at the door, I don't 342 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 7: remember that I was expecting anyone, because my intention was 343 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 7: we were going to be going downtown and get the 344 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 7: high chair. So the knock at the door, I opened 345 00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 7: it and it was ban instant melaclava. The knife was 346 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 7: held up here. He pushed me back into it. There 347 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 7: were a couple of steps up into the unit, and 348 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 7: he just pushed me like into the unit and then 349 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,680 Speaker 7: the knife was at my throat. He had the knife 350 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:41,120 Speaker 7: up and down my throat like instantly, and I remember thinking, 351 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 7: holy ship, I'm going to die. This is Sydney, That's 352 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 7: what I thought I was gonna I was gonna die. 353 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,439 Speaker 7: I remember him mumbling something about what money for drugs? 354 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 7: Money for drugs. We you know, like we were smoking pot. 355 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 7: And I remember going into the kitchen and getting the mulbi, 356 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 7: but it was like hardly anything there and I don't 357 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 7: even think he took it. I went to my bag 358 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,959 Speaker 7: that was hanging over the chair and I got my 359 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 7: purse out. I don't remember the you know, the order, 360 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 7: but he took that money. 361 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 2: And that was the money for the high chair. 362 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, it was seventy dollars. That would have been 363 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,680 Speaker 5: a lot of money back then. Yes it was. Yeah, 364 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:29,639 Speaker 5: it was a lot of money. 365 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:34,199 Speaker 7: And I had to but I had secretly saved that money, 366 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 7: and I remember had I had it was hidden in 367 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 7: the in my cupboard in the bedroom. 368 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 5: Sorry, can we. 369 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 2: Just we can stop, We can pause for sure, take 370 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 2: your time. 371 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,119 Speaker 5: No, I gotta just like get it all out. And then. 372 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 7: Yeah, so he was like saying, yeah, money for drugs. 373 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:10,399 Speaker 7: Wanted drugs, and yeah, like I said, I went to 374 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 7: the marlbole. I don't remember whether he did that, he 375 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 7: had the money, and then it was I'm not real 376 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:23,639 Speaker 7: clear on how quickly it happened, but he told me 377 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 7: to get into the bedroom and get bit my clothes off. 378 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,640 Speaker 7: I can't remember how he said it, but the next 379 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,920 Speaker 7: sequence from when he was standing there saying all that 380 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 7: and the knife was going up and down my throat, 381 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,360 Speaker 7: I was. I went into the bedroom and like obviously 382 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:47,120 Speaker 7: he followed, and I've just always undressed from the bottom down, 383 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:51,119 Speaker 7: never the top down. And I remember I had like, 384 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 7: I liked this, I guess three quid of pants on 385 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 7: you know all back then they had zips yeah, around 386 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 7: the bottom of the leg yeah, on the side that yeah, 387 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 7: yeah yeah. And went in there and I was like 388 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 7: trying to stall, and so I remember taking my pants 389 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 7: off first. 390 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 9: Fuck. 391 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:25,199 Speaker 7: Yeah, I sort of unzipped them and I took my 392 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:33,199 Speaker 7: pants off, and then I remember saying, what are you 393 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:34,160 Speaker 7: doing back here? 394 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 5: That was a big mistake because. 395 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 7: It was like his eyes, yeah, his eyes, and maybe 396 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 7: his nose was cut out as well, or I just 397 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:49,160 Speaker 7: remember his nose. 398 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,399 Speaker 5: I remember his eyes, and I remember his nose. 399 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 7: I could just see from that part it was the 400 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 7: person that I knew as Greg Hawkin's. It was like 401 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 7: instant saying, what are you doing back here? Like that 402 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,159 Speaker 7: was stupid of me? Like why did I say that? 403 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 7: He just like he stopped instant and he just sort 404 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:20,679 Speaker 7: of like looked at me, and I just fuck, I realized, 405 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,640 Speaker 7: Oh God, what did what did you say that for? 406 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 7: And I thought, oh shit, here it comes. It's it's 407 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:32,880 Speaker 7: gonna be bad, Like it's gonna be worse now. But yeah, 408 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 7: he was, Yeah, he was definitely taken aback that I 409 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 7: recognized him. I can't remember what was said. But then 410 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 7: like from I got myself around to the side of 411 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 7: the bed and all the ceramic bunnies sort of like 412 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,440 Speaker 7: on the ledge like this, and as I was sort 413 00:25:55,440 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 7: of like trying to pretend to like start to get 414 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 7: everything off, I don't know, I just went to the 415 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 7: window ledge and just in one movement, I just sort 416 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 7: of like I had the window in one hand and 417 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 7: I grabbed the biggest bunny in the other hand, and 418 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 7: I remember opening it and then just throwing it down 419 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 7: and then he he just came straight at me, and 420 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 7: it was just and with his fist, yeah, closed hard fist, 421 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 7: and I just went down. 422 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 5: It was like. 423 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 7: And I just went smacked down on the bed. And 424 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,880 Speaker 7: I think he thought that because that happened at the window, 425 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 7: because it was the main like a main road, he 426 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 7: would have thought, Oh, someone's going to see that and 427 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 7: they're going to come up, and that's why he took 428 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:03,120 Speaker 7: off't know, but I'm thankful that I didn't get raped 429 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,440 Speaker 7: straight as soon as I sort of like went down 430 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,880 Speaker 7: on the bed, because I think that's what he was thinking. 431 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 5: He told me to eat, like he must have got me. 432 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 7: I can't remember the sequence of how I physically got 433 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 7: from the bed and then straight into the bathroom and 434 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 7: I had to get under the shower and stay there. 435 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:32,200 Speaker 7: And I remember standing there, I still had because back 436 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 7: then to your socks with your shoes. Yeah, anyway, so 437 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,959 Speaker 7: obviously I kicked off my shoes at some point, and 438 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 7: I remember standing in the shower with my socks on. 439 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:43,399 Speaker 5: So I remember that feeling of. 440 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 7: Not bare feet in the shower and had my socks 441 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,360 Speaker 7: on and my nickers and my top and. 442 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 5: My face was just like wow, and I was just 443 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 5: in a. 444 00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 7: Total days of what was happening, and just like like stunned, 445 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 7: and and then I stood under the shower for I don't, 446 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:11,679 Speaker 7: I don't, I don't know how long, and eventually I 447 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 7: got out of the shower because I didn't know whether 448 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,399 Speaker 7: he was still in the unit or not. And I 449 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:25,160 Speaker 7: got out of the shower. I would yeah, I vaguely 450 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:32,679 Speaker 7: remember going into Little Ones at Dream. I went to 451 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 7: the phone and I rang Triple zero and I remember 452 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 7: saying this stupid thing, I didn't get a squad car here, 453 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 7: like who says that? So after I don't know how 454 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 7: long I was on the phone the Triple I, but 455 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 7: eventually I do remember when, yeah, when there was like 456 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 7: the knock at the door and I was saying it 457 00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 7: was the police. 458 00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 5: I remember sitting there. 459 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 7: I remember sitting on the floor down there and like 460 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 7: huddled up, and I remember crying and crying and crying, 461 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,760 Speaker 7: and I said I had because I wasn't game to 462 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 7: open the door after what had happened. And I remember saying, 463 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 7: how do I know it's you? And they kept on saying, well, 464 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 7: we're the police, And I remember asking, can you put 465 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 7: your badge under the door, But because it was like 466 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 7: a thick fireproof door, and there was carpet. They said 467 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 7: it wouldn't fit under the door, but I remember it 468 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 7: would have been a good easy, like ten minutes before 469 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 7: I was game enough to actually then open the door. 470 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 7: And there were two cops there too, uniform. 471 00:29:54,520 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 2: How terrified, just the whole yeah scene. 472 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 5: How do you feel. I haven't gone through that sequence 473 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 5: of events. I don't think of. 474 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 2: The badly Brews twenty two year old mum was taking 475 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 2: my police to nearby Saint Vincent's Hospital to be treated 476 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 2: for facial injuries. 477 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:33,959 Speaker 7: I've always had long nails, and I think these two 478 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 7: nails sort of like broke in, like in the scuffle 479 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 7: of it all. The detective was just trying to make 480 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 7: light of the situation and he said, look at you. 481 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 5: You're black and blue. 482 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 7: You're lucky to be alive, and you're worrying about two 483 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 7: broken nails. Yeah, I remember he was like nice and 484 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 7: he said that. Then, like when I went and had 485 00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 7: the X rays taken, I remember something up against my 486 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 7: face in order to have the X ray taken, and 487 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 7: I remember that hurting like crazy, and that's still to 488 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 7: this day hit. This area still hurts, like if you 489 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 7: wash your face too hard, or if you've got a 490 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 7: little one sitting on your lap. You know how they 491 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 7: tend to sort of like rock back and forward. Yeah, 492 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 7: the amount of times that my kids would do that. 493 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 7: And so as soon as I get bumped in that area, automatically, 494 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 7: that whole scenario of getting off the ballot, clap the 495 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 7: person with the baloklava and getting bashed comes instantly into 496 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 7: my mind. It's never anything else that that just comes 497 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 7: instantly into my mind. And then I'm back in that mindset, 498 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 7: and then it can last week's months, and I'm just 499 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 7: I'm flawed. I'm just I'm down for the count. I'm hyper. 500 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 7: And that's why I have a German Shepherd because then 501 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 7: I know that I can feel safe because no one 502 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 7: comes near you with the German Shepherd. 503 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 2: After being released from hospital, detectives escorted Nicole into the 504 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,240 Speaker 2: city station just see if she could identify her attacker. 505 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 7: I remember them saying that they have to go and 506 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 7: have a look at the mugshots and to don't worry 507 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 7: if you see him in the photos. 508 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:27,560 Speaker 5: It'll just jump right out, an't you. 509 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 7: And that's exactly what happened when I was looking through 510 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 7: all the photos, it just jumped Yeah, literally jumped and 511 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 7: I still have that memory of his face still to 512 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 7: this day, of those little photos. 513 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:47,360 Speaker 2: The face that jumped out of that photo was Kevin 514 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 2: Stephen Cornwall's the man n cole knew as photographer Greg Hawkins. Coincidentally, 515 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 2: Greg Hawkins was also the name of Kevin's brother in law. 516 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 2: Kevin's Liverpool home was then raided by police. Several items 517 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 2: were seized, including a six inch knife, a wallet, business cards, 518 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 2: a blue and white stripe beanie with the word sharks 519 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,600 Speaker 2: on it, sand choose, and a blue and white long 520 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 2: sleeve jumper. The real Greg Hawkins told police he'd given 521 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 2: Kevin ten of his business cards to generate new Life 522 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 2: insurance customers. Kevin was refused bail and sent to Long 523 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 2: Bay Jail on remand two weeks after Nicole's attack, a 524 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 2: mystery man phoned her unit. Nicole's husband answered, and this 525 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 2: is what he told police. These are his words, but 526 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 2: not his voice. 527 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 3: On the thirtieth of October nineteen eighty three, I was 528 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 3: at home with my wife when the telephone rang. I 529 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 3: answered it and said hello. A male voice said mister, 530 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 3: I said yes. He said, I want to give you 531 00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:03,360 Speaker 3: some advice about your family. I said, who are you? 532 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 3: He said, A maid of mine is going down because 533 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:11,320 Speaker 3: your wife reckons he attacked her. It's bullshit. I said, 534 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,680 Speaker 3: who are you? He said I was with him, mate, 535 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,279 Speaker 3: half an hour after he was supposed to have done it. 536 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,239 Speaker 3: He couldn't have done it. We were doing a job. 537 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,239 Speaker 3: I said, why don't you give your mate Cornwall a 538 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,360 Speaker 3: message from me. Tell him he'd better pray that he 539 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 3: stays in jail, because if he doesn't, praying won't help him. 540 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:37,320 Speaker 3: He said, Oh, you're tough, mate, real tough. Just remember, 541 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 3: if your wife puts him away, you and her and 542 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 3: your family can take your choice of a shotgun or 543 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:47,719 Speaker 3: broken bones. I said, look, mate, we've got no hassles 544 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 3: with you. Cornwell did it and he's going to wear it. 545 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 3: He said he didn't do anything. I told the police 546 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:57,279 Speaker 3: that I saw him within half an hour, but they 547 00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 3: didn't believe me. They believed you're bitch of a w 548 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,280 Speaker 3: I said, listen, fuck with if you've got a problem 549 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 3: with me, get your ass over here now. He said, 550 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,959 Speaker 3: don't worry, mate, I know where you live. You better 551 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 3: be ready. The door won't stop me. I'll blow it open. 552 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:19,400 Speaker 3: I said, forget the door I'll be waiting outside. The 553 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:26,239 Speaker 3: caller hung up. I would describe the voice on the 554 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 3: telephone as been that of an Australian male about twenty 555 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 3: five years old. His voice was educated, but he sounded 556 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:37,480 Speaker 3: like an oka. I could hear background noises over the telephone, 557 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,959 Speaker 3: like that in a hotel, but the caller didn't sound 558 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,439 Speaker 3: as though he was drunk. After the call, my wife 559 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:46,920 Speaker 3: and I were greatly upset by it, and I have 560 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,280 Speaker 3: grave fears for the safety of both myself and my family. 561 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 2: You are now going to hear a transcript from Kevin's 562 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,920 Speaker 2: recorded interview with police when he was questioned over the 563 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,880 Speaker 2: armed attack on the young mum at Darlinghurst at one 564 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:07,840 Speaker 2: forty five pm on the twenty ninth of September nineteen 565 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 2: eighty three. This is an actor, not the voice of 566 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:12,239 Speaker 2: Kevin Cornwall. 567 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,400 Speaker 6: At about one o'clock, I walked up to the phone 568 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:20,240 Speaker 6: to ring the Electricity Commission about extensions of time for payment. 569 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,440 Speaker 6: I walked across the road to the garage at the 570 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:27,040 Speaker 6: end of our street and bought a newspaper, the Daily Telegraph. 571 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:32,240 Speaker 6: I then walked home. I was home for about five minutes, 572 00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 6: then I left and went to Liverpool to the Youth 573 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,960 Speaker 6: and Community Center. I was only there for about five 574 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,359 Speaker 6: minutes and then drove to a block of flats where 575 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,880 Speaker 6: I knew Greg Climpson lived to get a gearbox for 576 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 6: a car. I went to park my car and when 577 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:49,440 Speaker 6: a lady come up to me and asked me not 578 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:51,919 Speaker 6: to park there as her husband was going to back 579 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 6: a truck onto the caravan. I moved the car to 580 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,360 Speaker 6: the other side of the road and I asked that 581 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,760 Speaker 6: same lady did she know Greg Clemson and what unit 582 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:06,200 Speaker 6: he lived in. She replied no, and I said thanks, anyway, 583 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:07,719 Speaker 6: I'll see if I. 584 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:08,879 Speaker 5: Can find him. 585 00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,359 Speaker 6: I saw number five above the garage door where I'd 586 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,920 Speaker 6: seen Greg working on his car previously, so I went 587 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,040 Speaker 6: to Unit five and knocked on the door, but no 588 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:20,840 Speaker 6: one answered. I went back out the front of the 589 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 6: units and again had a conversation with the lady I 590 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,319 Speaker 6: spoke to earlier, and then I got back in my 591 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,400 Speaker 6: car and headed towards home. That decided to get some 592 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:31,320 Speaker 6: lunch from my wife and myself. 593 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,840 Speaker 2: The next part of Kevin's alibi will sound extraordinarily familiar 594 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:36,120 Speaker 2: to you. 595 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 6: I stopped at a take away food bar in Terminus Street, Liverpool, 596 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,640 Speaker 6: where I purchased a batted save, a piece of fish, 597 00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:47,799 Speaker 6: a bag of chips, and a loaf of bread. I'd 598 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,040 Speaker 6: asked the man behind the counter what sort of fish 599 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,600 Speaker 6: it was, and he wrote it down on a piece 600 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,160 Speaker 6: of paper, the word Hake. And he went to the 601 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,239 Speaker 6: fridge and pulled out a tray of fish, and he 602 00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,520 Speaker 6: explained that it was the only fish he uses. I 603 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,000 Speaker 6: paid from the goods and went straight home. 604 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,719 Speaker 2: Kevin told police he arrived home at approximately ten past two. 605 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:14,359 Speaker 2: Detectives interviewed witnesses connected to the address where Kevin said 606 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:18,440 Speaker 2: he'd been on the afternoon in question. A resident by 607 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,600 Speaker 2: the name of Kaylen Musgrove was shown a photograph of 608 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:26,000 Speaker 2: Kevin and detailed her interaction with him that afternoon. She 609 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:29,160 Speaker 2: says Kevin parked his white Holden station wagon in her 610 00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:33,040 Speaker 2: driveway and she asked him to politely move it. Kevin 611 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,480 Speaker 2: then asked her if she'd seen his brother in law. 612 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 2: Kaylen's husband said he didn't actually know his brother in law. 613 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:40,640 Speaker 5: She said. 614 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:43,960 Speaker 2: The man she identified as Kevin then walked over to 615 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:48,160 Speaker 2: his car and drove off. Kaylen Musgrove told detectives he 616 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:52,879 Speaker 2: appeared very nervous and tense. Nicole's attack happened at one 617 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:56,759 Speaker 2: forty five pm at Darlinghurst, which is about thirty four 618 00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:01,720 Speaker 2: kilometers away from Liverpool. It's around a fifty minute Kaylen 619 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:05,800 Speaker 2: Musgrove said her interaction with Kevin happened between two thirty 620 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:10,560 Speaker 2: and three pm, making it very possible Kevin could have 621 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:14,240 Speaker 2: made it back to Liverpool in that timeframe. The service 622 00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 2: station attendant at Liverpool was also shown a photograph of 623 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,000 Speaker 2: Kevin and asked if he came in to buy a 624 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:24,880 Speaker 2: newspaper on Thursday, the twenty ninth of September. She told police, 625 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,360 Speaker 2: I don't remember what time he came in exactly, but 626 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:32,719 Speaker 2: it was between two thirty pm and four thirty pm 627 00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:36,600 Speaker 2: that day. Remember, Kevin told police he was there just 628 00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:41,640 Speaker 2: after one pm. Kevin Stephen Cornwall, who was twenty seven 629 00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:45,520 Speaker 2: at the time, were charged with attempted sexual assault, assault 630 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:50,320 Speaker 2: occasioning actual bodily harm, and armed robbery. Cornwall was later 631 00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:56,200 Speaker 2: committed to stand trial, and Nicole remembers his demeanor at court. 632 00:39:55,760 --> 00:40:00,960 Speaker 5: Smug, Yeah, smug and yeah, the attitude of height and 633 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:01,359 Speaker 5: do this. 634 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:06,120 Speaker 7: It wasn't as simple as just having to go through 635 00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:11,439 Speaker 7: that trauma of going to court, like I'd never been 636 00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 7: inside a court ever, so to be confronted with that 637 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:24,200 Speaker 7: is mind boggling. Anyway, it's scary, Like I was what 638 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:28,360 Speaker 7: twenty two like, I was a kid, I was very immature, 639 00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:29,200 Speaker 7: twenty two. 640 00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:36,600 Speaker 5: Like I was a scared little what's the lowest form 641 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:38,799 Speaker 5: of a being. 642 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,799 Speaker 7: I was like a scared little aunt. I was like 643 00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:46,800 Speaker 7: I felt like nothing. And yeah, so the jury people, 644 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:50,600 Speaker 7: I remember them looking at me and judging. And there 645 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:54,720 Speaker 7: was one particular day I had to wear this thin, black, 646 00:40:55,120 --> 00:41:03,239 Speaker 7: tight skirt and this red off the shoulder jump up like, 647 00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,200 Speaker 7: I look like a tart. I look like a slap. 648 00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,440 Speaker 7: But that's what my ex husband did to me. 649 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,360 Speaker 2: Do you think that played into the decision of the jury. 650 00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:14,239 Speaker 5: Absolutely? I do. 651 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,799 Speaker 2: So why do you believe that Kevin got away with it? 652 00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:23,719 Speaker 7: Because the jury only heard about this one instance and 653 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:27,920 Speaker 7: they've got this female sitting in front of them that, 654 00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:31,280 Speaker 7: on one particular day looked like a tart. 655 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,480 Speaker 2: At the time, Nicole often felt pressure from her then 656 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,720 Speaker 2: husband to dress a certain way. She thinks it affected 657 00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:42,120 Speaker 2: the outcome of the trial. Kevin Cornwall was acquitted of 658 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:45,400 Speaker 2: all charges by the jury, just like he was in 659 00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:49,319 Speaker 2: a separate rape troll a year earlier. Fast forward to 660 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:53,240 Speaker 2: two thousand and one, Kevin goes by the surname Correll 661 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:57,160 Speaker 2: and he's under investigation for the murder of his twenty 662 00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:01,359 Speaker 2: three year old protege, Rachelle Charles. What went through your 663 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:05,000 Speaker 2: mind when you heard that he'd been investigated for the 664 00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:08,120 Speaker 2: murder and suspected rape of a young woman. 665 00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:13,680 Speaker 7: I felt scared because I still it's still always obviously 666 00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:18,520 Speaker 7: you know, is he going to find me again? So yeah, 667 00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:23,280 Speaker 7: instantly I got scared from my safety. Yeah, the instant 668 00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:29,560 Speaker 7: that it came back into my life again. Yeah, I 669 00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:30,120 Speaker 7: got scared. 670 00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:32,560 Speaker 2: It's taken so much courage for you to speak out. 671 00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:36,719 Speaker 5: But it's only because I want to see justice. 672 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:40,760 Speaker 2: Kevin Stephen Cornwall maintains his innocence and he was acquitted 673 00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:44,400 Speaker 2: by a jury in both cases. I've asked Damien Luine 674 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,960 Speaker 2: to have a good look over the evidence in Jane 675 00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:50,000 Speaker 2: and Nicole's cases. Let's get his take on them. 676 00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:54,360 Speaker 10: It's all about deception. First of all. He goes to 677 00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:59,280 Speaker 10: Jane where she's placed an advertisement in the local paper 678 00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:06,000 Speaker 10: for someone to share a house on the pretense of 679 00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:10,480 Speaker 10: doing that, and she's violently assaulted. So after the attack, 680 00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:15,440 Speaker 10: he allegedly tells the victim Jane to shower. Now you 681 00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:18,440 Speaker 10: have to look at the reasons why he's asking for 682 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:22,040 Speaker 10: that to happen, and it's perhaps maybe of the DNA 683 00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:26,600 Speaker 10: contamination that he may be afraid of. With the second victim, Nicole, 684 00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:31,760 Speaker 10: he's posed as a photographer. Now this is again deception. 685 00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:35,600 Speaker 10: He provided a business card with a name, and Nichole 686 00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:38,719 Speaker 10: immediately recognized who he was. He was a person who 687 00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,879 Speaker 10: had been there before, pretending to be the photographer. Now 688 00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:43,880 Speaker 10: again we have deception on this part. 689 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:46,839 Speaker 2: How much weight do you give when they point out 690 00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:48,840 Speaker 2: someone in mugshots? 691 00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,799 Speaker 10: Photograph identification is very difficult to say, at the very 692 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:58,760 Speaker 10: least in investigation phases. However, you have to really believe 693 00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:01,480 Speaker 10: what the victim and it is telling you if they 694 00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:04,080 Speaker 10: recognize that person, and sometimes you can just see it 695 00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:07,759 Speaker 10: in their eyes when they're perusing the photo identification and 696 00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:10,000 Speaker 10: normally it's done on my laptop back in that area 697 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:14,399 Speaker 10: was done with mugshots basically, and you can see their 698 00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:18,480 Speaker 10: reactions straight away when and their eyes dilate, you can 699 00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:23,680 Speaker 10: see that the body become tense, their movements, ay sweat, 700 00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:26,680 Speaker 10: and you can obviously see the fear coming out inn't them, 701 00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:30,200 Speaker 10: And to me, that was always a firm belief that 702 00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:35,400 Speaker 10: the person who's pointing out this offender to me is believable, 703 00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,160 Speaker 10: and that's the offender that's been involved in the attack. 704 00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:43,640 Speaker 2: Well, it's a likelihood that two women could mistakenly point 705 00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:45,759 Speaker 2: out Kevin in a mug shot. 706 00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:50,000 Speaker 10: Well, this is very difficult to believe. I firmly believe 707 00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:56,120 Speaker 10: that if two women have identified him in mugshot identification, 708 00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:01,960 Speaker 10: then Kevin has got some problems because they can identify 709 00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:06,759 Speaker 10: him and they've pointed the finger saying he's a person responsible. 710 00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:11,760 Speaker 10: It's unlikely that would happen. I've never seen it. I've 711 00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:15,799 Speaker 10: seen people pick out the same person in photograph identification 712 00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:19,640 Speaker 10: and you're just building up your evidence against this person. 713 00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,920 Speaker 10: And for two people who don't know each other to 714 00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:28,080 Speaker 10: point him out is somewhat great evidence for the prosecution. 715 00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:31,720 Speaker 2: In those cases. Well, in all of the cases against Kevin, 716 00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:32,960 Speaker 2: he was acquitted. 717 00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:35,600 Speaker 5: What are your thoughts on that? 718 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,319 Speaker 10: Look difficult to say why he was acquitted and the 719 00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:41,400 Speaker 10: reasons why. Now it's the onus of the prosecution to 720 00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:44,200 Speaker 10: prove otherwise, and that can be difficult at the best 721 00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:47,920 Speaker 10: of times, and sometimes the victims when they're giving examination 722 00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:53,360 Speaker 10: or they're under cross examination, may withhold some information because 723 00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:59,560 Speaker 10: they're embarrassed by what's happened. They're afraid, and it's difficult. 724 00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,120 Speaker 10: You really have to think. You the prosecution, and it 725 00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:05,919 Speaker 10: is always on the owners of the prosecution to prove 726 00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:10,520 Speaker 10: the offenses. And it does happen, you know, sometimes we 727 00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:13,640 Speaker 10: just don't get the verdict we want, even though we 728 00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:14,800 Speaker 10: know we've got the right person. 729 00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:18,920 Speaker 2: Are there any similarities in Kevin's alibi in all the 730 00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:21,640 Speaker 2: historical matters he's been investigated over. 731 00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:26,960 Speaker 10: Absolutely, and they're nearly all identical. And I'll go back 732 00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:30,600 Speaker 10: to on the night that Rachelle left the Camden Hole 733 00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:34,440 Speaker 10: and to go to somewhere, he says he went shopping 734 00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:38,799 Speaker 10: into Campbelltown. He visited his girlfriend home it picked it, 735 00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:41,560 Speaker 10: but she wasn't there. Then, he says, and this is 736 00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,960 Speaker 10: where it rings alarm bells to me. He went to 737 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:48,520 Speaker 10: grab some fish and chips and a battered tarmor and 738 00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:52,279 Speaker 10: he also visited a service station that night. Now, this 739 00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:57,600 Speaker 10: alibi is similar to something that happened eighteen years earlier, 740 00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:02,240 Speaker 10: and Kevin was questioned over his movements following us sexually 741 00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:05,000 Speaker 10: a vaded attack on a young woman and Daly host. 742 00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:08,719 Speaker 10: Now he told Plus it wasn't him. He said, I 743 00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:11,719 Speaker 10: was getting fish and chips. That and I ordered a 744 00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:14,719 Speaker 10: battered save piece of fish, bag of chips, and a 745 00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:18,399 Speaker 10: loaf of bread. Now, let's go back to the night 746 00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:22,560 Speaker 10: that Rachelle disappeared. He went to grab some fish and 747 00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:27,239 Speaker 10: chips and about it saber turmoil in another matter, and 748 00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:29,040 Speaker 10: this is the case where a young man was raped 749 00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:32,960 Speaker 10: at punch bowl. He says he was getting takeaway. Now 750 00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:36,160 Speaker 10: you have to ask, is there a common thread here 751 00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,000 Speaker 10: or does he just like his greasy food. 752 00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:49,120 Speaker 2: Rachelle's sister, Christie is incredibly grateful to both Jane and 753 00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:52,759 Speaker 2: Nicole for sharing their stories with me. To shine a 754 00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:57,040 Speaker 2: light on Rochelle's case, Christy recorded a video message for 755 00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:59,120 Speaker 2: both women which I played to them. 756 00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:04,680 Speaker 8: I just wanted to pass on how thankful we are 757 00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:10,720 Speaker 8: here at team Sheell. My mum also passes on her thanks. Honestly, 758 00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,719 Speaker 8: we cannot thank you enough. I really hope that what 759 00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:15,799 Speaker 8: you've done today hasn't opened. 760 00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:17,760 Speaker 5: Up too many old wounds. 761 00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:23,160 Speaker 8: I'm sure that it has, But you are so incredibly brave, 762 00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:25,960 Speaker 8: and even though I don't know you, I am just 763 00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:29,920 Speaker 8: so proud of you. We need to stand up and 764 00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:33,640 Speaker 8: we need to stand together. And even though I can't 765 00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,680 Speaker 8: know you or see you or meet you, know that 766 00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:40,920 Speaker 8: I stand with you and I just think that you're incredible. 767 00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:45,560 Speaker 8: Thank you so much for helping us give Shell a voice. 768 00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:50,000 Speaker 8: And even though it would have been really painful, I'm 769 00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:54,279 Speaker 8: sure I hope that you feel empowered, and thank you 770 00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:55,920 Speaker 8: for helping us to empower Chelle. 771 00:48:56,640 --> 00:49:00,920 Speaker 5: If I was there, i'd give you a massive hug. Honestly, 772 00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:01,760 Speaker 5: I have no words. 773 00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:07,799 Speaker 8: Thank you so much, and I hope you're okay. 774 00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:13,200 Speaker 2: How did you feel listening to that message? 775 00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:17,320 Speaker 4: It's beautiful. I hope she gets justice for a sister. 776 00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:17,920 Speaker 4: I really do. 777 00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:20,080 Speaker 5: I feel quite empowered. 778 00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:26,000 Speaker 7: And yeah, if you need anything else that could help, yeah, 779 00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:28,960 Speaker 7: I'm more than happy because yeah, I feel different. 780 00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:29,759 Speaker 5: I'm all good. 781 00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:32,920 Speaker 2: We're all so grateful for you being so brave at 782 00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:35,040 Speaker 2: this stage in your life. You didn't have to speak 783 00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:37,440 Speaker 2: to me, you didn't have to share your story. It 784 00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,160 Speaker 2: would have been easier for you to just hang up 785 00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:40,640 Speaker 2: the phone. 786 00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:44,040 Speaker 4: You can't do that when something like this happens, because 787 00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:47,319 Speaker 4: you've got to got to don't let him scare you. 788 00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:48,520 Speaker 5: The other women. 789 00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:49,240 Speaker 1: Full sure. 790 00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:53,080 Speaker 5: I have full confidence in that telling you you need justice. 791 00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:55,799 Speaker 4: She needs justice, that young girl, And. 792 00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:58,040 Speaker 2: Like Christy says, we have to stand together. 793 00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:00,400 Speaker 5: Yep, all of us. 794 00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:00,919 Speaker 7: The better. 795 00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:07,200 Speaker 5: I would want to do anything. 796 00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:11,920 Speaker 4: I just want to help her. 797 00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:16,080 Speaker 5: Thank you again for being so kind to me. That 798 00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:17,600 Speaker 5: was very difficult. 799 00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:22,759 Speaker 4: He's not going to ever scare me again. You can 800 00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:24,279 Speaker 4: run away, but you can't hide. 801 00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:33,719 Speaker 2: On the next episode of Dear Rochelle. 802 00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:39,319 Speaker 9: I met Kevin at a singles night. He told me 803 00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:41,280 Speaker 9: that he was a psychologist. 804 00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:46,120 Speaker 4: Alice had received phone calls from a gentleman who was 805 00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:50,279 Speaker 4: a previous partner that he had the house bugged. I said, 806 00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:51,919 Speaker 4: you just keep right away. 807 00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:54,000 Speaker 5: He'd have his friends take care of me. I'd be 808 00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:55,280 Speaker 5: dead by the end of the month. 809 00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:59,239 Speaker 9: And with that he said, you're just a prattease and 810 00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:01,440 Speaker 9: one of these is they going to find you slip 811 00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:03,399 Speaker 9: from the fanny to the throat in a car park. 812 00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:17,280 Speaker 2: Debt de Rochelle is a multimedia production from True Crime Australia. 813 00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:19,120 Speaker 2: If you want to be the first to find out 814 00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:22,760 Speaker 2: what happens next, go to deroshell dot com dot au. 815 00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:26,799 Speaker 2: That's where News Corp Australia Subscribers get early access to 816 00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:31,480 Speaker 2: podcast episodes and breaking news in our live investigation before 817 00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:36,560 Speaker 2: anybody else, and you'll also find exclusive videos, interactive evidence, 818 00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:40,400 Speaker 2: feature articles and more. That's deroshell dot com dot a U, 819 00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:43,920 Speaker 2: d E A R R A C h E W 820 00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:46,480 Speaker 2: l E dot com dot a U. If you have 821 00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:50,720 Speaker 2: any tips or confidential information to share with me, Ashley Hanson, 822 00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:54,360 Speaker 2: please send an email to Deroshelle at news dot com 823 00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:58,520 Speaker 2: dot AU. Our supervising producer and audio editor is Reese Gunter, 824 00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:03,440 Speaker 2: Rachel Fountain, Executive producer and audio director. Our executive editor 825 00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:07,399 Speaker 2: is Sarah Blake. Our senior journalist is Patrick Carline. Video 826 00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:11,240 Speaker 2: editors are Gillian McNally, Owen Yang and Stephen Woods. Picture 827 00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:14,360 Speaker 2: editors are Jeff dr Mannan and Christy Miller. Senior camera 828 00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:17,800 Speaker 2: operators are Daniel Andrews and Oscar Viera, with sound designed 829 00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:21,560 Speaker 2: by Martin Perolta. Thanks also to Greg Thompson and Lennie Paneraz, 830 00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:27,200 Speaker 2: Show Burreo Fayguld, Vanessa Grabb, Hailey Goddard, Stephen Grice, Charlotte Carp, 831 00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:31,200 Speaker 2: Tina Coggins, and Harry Hughes. Special thanks to the Daily 832 00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:34,560 Speaker 2: Telegraph editor Ben English and dear Rochelle would not be 833 00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:38,000 Speaker 2: possible without the help, and I'm waivering support of Christian 834 00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:43,360 Speaker 2: Ann Childs, Mindy Wicks, Damien Loon and Rachelle's friends. This 835 00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:47,600 Speaker 2: podcast series is hosted and investigated by me Ashley Hanson